Come anticipate CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR with me

first trailer - looks like a pretty promising followup to winter soldier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVdV-lxRPFo

kinda looking forward to seeing robert downey jr get his head kicked in tbh

very bright isn't it? lots of white, daytime shots etc. nu-spiderman's in that trailer somewhere supposedly?

yeah, i kinda like that - god knows we've had enough tortured heroes grimacing from rooftops in the rain at night. didn't catch spider-man but the glimpses of the black panther are cool. wonder how big a role those guys are going to be playing in a movie which already looks tightly-packed with guest stars.

Apparently Hawkeye develops the power of levitation in this one judging from the still.

Black Panther in there too.

I am silently screaming along with all the twitter fangirls. BUCKY ILU

Iron Man and Captain America being on the wrong sides of this registration issue (also a problem with the original story) is strongly mitigated by tying this to the fate of Bucky.

where's crossbones, he's in it right?

http://40.media.tumblr.com/2d898d9fe91b01ac399ad6b4abc73937/tumblr_nydmxbmJY11qdpulbo1_500.jpg

oh oh here he comes

I couldn't tell if they're even going to make it about registration in the movie?

There's a dude saying he wants to make Cap more accountable, so I imagine it will be along broadly similar lines.

you mean the dude who used to be a decent/famous actor and is now lending ironic, legitimizing "gravitas" to the movie by appearing as an elder statesman?

why is there one of these in every superhero movie

because lots of actors like being in successful movie franchises?

Who knew actors liked to act in high profile appearances!

most of them don't seem to be enjoying themselves tbh

maybe we should make a poll

and I'm referring to a very specific casting trope here, in case that isn't clear

Even if this isn't about registration specifically, the tone on Agents of SHIELD since the Inhuman breakout would seem to suggest something along those lines is in the cards.

Oh that is a good poll idea. Putting it together now.

are we talking about william hurt? he's reprising, is the funny thing, but i guess the movie he prised the first time in is now as uncanon as you can get and still be canon. anyway you punch an hour or three of clock on one of these things and you're set for the next few years of amusing yourself, doing lear, whatever. it's not like you have to watch them. the only really horrifying part is the junkets.

was he in one of those Hulk movies before? I can't remember

yeah he was in the norton one. he should reprise his role from a history of violence.

hey broheem!

Ha, I actually forgot the Norton Hulk movie existed. I thought Hurt was taking over from Sam Elliott in the Ang Lee Hulk movie.

Iron Man and Captain America being on the wrong sides of this registration issue (also a problem with the original story) is strongly mitigated by tying this to the fate of Bucky.

― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Wednesday, November 25, 2015

yup. i've had ~trepidations~ ever since they announced the title bc that entire event rang so false, but on the basis of one trailer MCU seems to have improved significantly on the source material.

Renee Russo is the queen of the 'wtf am I doing here' elder actor statesman gig thang in these films

most of them don't seem to be enjoying themselves tbh: Comic Book Movie Gravitas Bringers, The Poll

haha awesome thx

russo not big league enough. =(

or tombot is sexist.

or both.

a genuine oversight for which I apologize

I also had no idea she was in her sixties! wow

https://41.media.tumblr.com/7a1f841aa6e2f70ea5665ab76b497643/tumblr_nydsegFkiP1ugjda4o1_540.jpg

feel like cap and iron man being 'on the wrong sides' makes more sense w how the movie characters have been set up, w/ the very corporate iron man the movies have and the captain america who spent half of his last movie on the run from the govt. yes, it was a govt. infiltrated by hydra or whatever. in the comics it just seemed arbitrary / an excuse for a dust-up.

Not the government, SHIELD, but good point about Cap. I feel Downey has been particularly good at being bad at taking advice/orders, though. Though the pomposity he could bring to the high moral ground would appeal to his Tony Stark.

Here's your final trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKrVegVI0Us

wait re: the ending, had that leaked and I missed it

Heavily rumored IIRC but I can't recall if it had been specifically confirmed.

part of amy pascal's sony bailout was that sony would 'lend' spiderman to marvel for a couple movies before they reboot (again)

Well they'd already confirmed a new film with Holland, it just wasn't clear if he was going to be in this film, which, well, there we are.

yeah it makes perfect sense considering his role in the comics

Russo Bros were in Cleveland for Wizard World a couple of weekends ago. I didn't go but a friend of mine did, and went to their panel. They're talking about coming back here again for shooting Avengers: Infinity War, and one of the locations they're discussing is literally a two minute walk from my house.

I thought it had been confirmed quite a long time ago that Spidey was going to be in the new Cap movie.

Might have been! Maybe the surprise was just that he ended up in the trailer.

Haven't they confirmed, like, 50 superheroes for Infinity War? How many are we up to so far, across the various films?

#teamantman

hey they've animated spidey's eyes

these trailers should start with the sound of a bucket of toys being dumped out

This movie is totally going to end with Thanos watching earth in his little whatever, laughing, and saying something like "what a bunch of fools, let them fight while my evil plan finally comes together!"

or spiderman eating a gyro with thor

willie lumpkin sharing a caesar salad with misty knight

I still haven't seen Ant Man.

You wouldn't.

ha.

Ant Man is... pretty good?

hoping for Michael Peña cameo in Ant Man scenes

Yeah, I'm sure they'll probably try to squeeze him in. He was a hit.

he'll be going to town on a mezze platter with aunt may in a post-credits sequence

Thanks for the new DN.

haha yr welcome

comes across as more of a euphemism in your DN and o my god i'm gonna be sick

given how old spidey sounds here, i'm guessing aunt may will be played by... brie larson?

Marisa Tomei. Yes, seriously.

The Spidey costume looks too smooth compared to the rest.

Surely you meant to say "Academy Award Winning Actress Marisa Tomei".

i would go to town on her messy platter

jesus christ does every one of these movies have to pose some sort of huge existential threat to humanity?

kinda how superheroes work, tho hoping for this one to be more internal-facing instead of NYC getting whack-a-moled again

not really, why can't it be like a guy in a big mouse costume threatening to rob the first municipal bank?

Spidey looks like Japanese Spider Man

Better than Turkish Spider-Man...

The three Iron Man movies and Ant-Man didn't have existential threats to humanity, just some corrupt arms dealers. Neither did Guardians of the Galaxy, technically, though I guess existential threat to another planet than Earth isn't really that different?

the norton hulk movie didn't either.

Nor did the first Thor movie.

So, "every one of these movies" = 5 of the 12 movies released so far.

Still, a failure to heed the wise words of Nigel Kneale:

"I didn't want to go on repeating because Professor Quatermass had already saved the world from ultimate destruction three times, and that seemed to me to be quite enough."

Constant threat escalation has been probably the main narrative problem in Marvel's comics for the past decade or so. It's hard to maintain a range of tones when you're always all BLACK BLACK BLACKER EVEN BLACKER NOW IF THAT'S POSSIBLE. I'm hoping that Secret Wars has lanced that boil for a while and that Infinity War will do likewise for the MCU. I assume that most of the individual character movies in the ramp-up will feature fewer world-demolishing threats.

afaict from the trailers there's no existential threat to humanity in this very picture right here. it's about ~friendship~ man.

I was going to say that this movie appears to be about the fallout of living through escalating existential threats to humanity rather being about a threat in and of itself but it seemed like everyone involved was really enjoying the conversation

Constant threat escalation has been probably the main narrative problem in Marvel's comics for the past decade or so

^^^^

surely DC's guilty of this too?

who is doing spidey's voice there?

xpost Yes, DC is definitely guilty of that, too, but I'd argue that their main narrative problem is not knowing what the fuck they're doing.

Spidey's voice is presumably Tom Holland, no?

151 minutes

that's a lot of civil war

I am assured _____ ____ appears as an actual villain

I'm going to be sorely disappointed if they don't manage to sneak in at least one instance of Cap accusing Stark of feeding the rich while he buries the poor, or Hawkeye exclaiming, "Ain't that fresh."

Yeah, I read about _____ ____. Wish I hadn't. I just need to stop reading the nerd press altogether.

I'm glad there might be another act not spoiled by the trailers, at least

right you are about holland
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/exclusive-bernthal-holland-teamed-marvel-auditions-article-1.2560381

I love how Thor just fucks off once in a while. He's like Superman with no real affinity for earth and a home planet to return to.

he's fond of midgard but let's be real, there's more important shit sometimes

or Hawkeye exclaiming, "Ain't that fresh."

What's so civil about war, anyway?

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/line3-11-12.jpg

theyre not kissing, boooooo

I was going to say that this movie appears to be about the fallout of living through escalating existential threats to humanity rather being about a threat in and of itself but it seemed like everyone involved was really enjoying the conversation
― i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Friday, March 11, 2016 1:52 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

maybe i missed something, but didn’t the trailer begin with the heroes watching footage of the mass destruction of several major cities? or was that from an earlier film? i don’t know, they all kind of run together for me.

i feel like we should blame all of this on roland emmerich, are you guys cool with that?

maybe i missed something, but didn’t the trailer begin with the heroes watching footage of the mass destruction of several major cities? or was that from an earlier film?

Yes, they are watching clips from Avengers, Avengers 2, and Captain America 2. I'm not sure why you need to make such sweeping statements if you haven't even seen these films?

i have seen them, unfortunately. after awhile all the footage of cities being destroyed kind of runs together.

the recent marvel movies i missed have been ant-man, x men - days of future past, the last two spider-man reboots, and deadpool (you couldn't pay me to see the latter)

btw only one of those is a "marvel" movie

ok fanboy

i know what you mean but jeez

http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/comicbookguy.gif

Dr. Amatorbius

Morbs is funny tho

This seems to be the plot for winter soldier all over again.

I'd categorise eg Sam Rockwell building thousands of crazed iron man suits as a reasonable threat to humanity, particularly if it happens while the right music plays and superheroes frown enough in panning shots.

Preview screening reviews are glowing. Lots of "best MCU movie yet"-level praise.

Ppl said winter soldier was great, I found it v forgettable. Plus this seems to be the same movie.

That said, I caught second avengers movie long after the hype and thought it far better than I'd read

Winter Soldier feels as if everyone had a good time making it. So kinda the opposite of BvS.

winter soldier is my favorite MCU film by a fair stretch, so if this is like that, omfg

considering all of the fan hype suggesting Snyder had reinvigorated the superhero genre with BvS after previews, I'm gonna wait until there's some critic appraisal.

still tho i think this will be dope

After a dozen films and a few tv shows, I think the MCU brain trust has a good handle on what parts of the print history are ripe for mining and which aren't (and fighting in the ranks is part of Marvel DNA going back to FF#1), whereas the DCCU brain trust (if there actually is one) is split between "run away from 75 years of rich Hero's Journey iconography" and "roll d20 to determine Batman's next move."

yeah the consistency re: Marvel's brand is pretty good. even managed to beat the Curse of the Threequel w/ Iron Man.

yeah but we have to suffer through IM2 to get that
like how do you screw up Demon in a Bottle srsly

I'm seeing a lot of praise for Tom Holland/Spider-Man & Chadwick Boseman/Black Panther as some of the better parts of the movie. I'm excited!

xpost yeah weirdly the Threequel curse hit Iron Man in the second installment.

it's kinda funny how much of a big deal Mickey Rourke was not that long ago, with his career resurgence in the early 00s. they even threw him in that garbage Expendables flick. which isn't to say that he wasn't good in any of those flicks but I think IM2 creators banked too much on him elevating that mess.

this is the direction the Avengers team needed to go after a second straight group pic involving a city attacked by unusual forces.

loved Winter Soldier so I'm jonesing for this one

i remember almost nothing about winter soldier

Everybody says that but I remember most all of it and I only saw it once.

if nothing else i will always remember Garry Shandling's "Hail Hydra"

The opening scene in Washington is pretty perfect. Natasha rolling up in her car and asking Sam and Steve 'Do you know the way to the Smithsonian? I'm looking for a fossil' probably shouldn't work, but it seems so playful.

Also the fight scenes in Winter Soldier were the best.

elevator

so awesome <3

elevator!

yeah the consistency re: Marvel's brand is pretty good. even managed to beat the Curse of the Threequel w/ Iron Man.

― Neanderthal, Saturday, April 9, 2016 6:51 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Iron Man 3 rules. Shane Black was the perfect choice. Apparently he's doing the next Predator movie, which I am stoked beyond belief for.

if it's not set at xmas i'll be very disappointed

feel like ppl should lower their expectations...
while i was a big fan of Winter Soldier, feel like this is gonna have the messiness Avengers 2 had as they're going in to setup the Black Panther and Spidey reboot movies with this (not to mention Avengers 3.1 and 3.2 and Antman 2 and Guardians 2 and Doctor Strange and...), and it looks like there's even MORE characters in this one
(..and i enjoyed Avengers 2)

just watched ant-man. it was not good.

u goddamn fuckerz

what gtfo. jesus christ. go walk into a fireplace and complain about it.

Sorry, Morbs, this is that other Marvel thread, not the one where we Marvel at the comedic majesty of Hardly Working.

just watched ant-man. it was not good.

― qualx, Sunday, April 10, 2016

if it gives us a michael peña solo joint it's all worth it

antman was fine, but I'm still a cap girl

speaking of... does anyone else find that "sometimes i just want to punch you in your perfect teeth" line they seem so proud of and make sure to stick in every trailer kinda irritating?

yeah, i wanna punch it in its perfect teeth

otm it is dumb.

Seriously, like Downey's teeth are any less perfect, come on.

"I want to muss your perfectly-coiffed hair, you handsome sonofabitch."

the scene is actually from a dream sequence of Captain America, where right after Stark toussles his hair and then starts running his arm down the back of his neck, then he wakes up, disappointed

i already have an opening night ticket for this

x-post: And then Quicksilver comes running by, and shouts 'The key is Captain Marvel! You have to find Captain Marvel' then zips out again.

if it gives us a michael peña solo joint it's all worth it

dear someone,

make this happen.

thank you

Small consolation prize, perhaps, but the new Ant-Man DLC for the Lego Avengers videogame has Luis as a playable character with new Peña dialogue.

review are in

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/captain_america_civil_war/

The shaming of “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice” will continue apace — or better still, be forgotten entirely — in the wake of “Captain America: Civil War,” a decisively superior hero-vs.-hero extravaganza that also ranks as the most mature and substantive picture to have yet emerged from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Very much an “Avengers” movie in scope and ambition if not title (the conspicuous absence of Thor and Hulk notwithstanding), this chronicle of an epic clash between two equally noble factions, led by Captain America and Iron Man, proves as remarkable for its dramatic coherence and thematic unity as for its dizzyingly inventive action sequences; viewers who have grown weary of seeing cities blow up ad nauseam will scarcely believe their luck at the relative restraint and ingenuity on display.

http://variety.com/2016/film/reviews/captain-america-civil-war-review-1201752643/

I love it. Effing stoked.

I haven't been this excited for a movie in forever, and I'm probably not going to be able to see it in theatres. There's no way I can avoid spoilers until it's on bloody Pay per view. So mad.

are you on the moon?

ha

Movie opens May 6 and I'm having a baby sometime between now and then. Can't take a newborn, can't leave it home. Ugh.

We totally took our babies to movies. They only wake up to eat, and feeding them makes them quiet and sleepy. Babies are the easiest to take out. Planes, restaurants ... they're self-contained and free everywhere. So don't feel bad, travel, go out, take that baby to the movies! And hey, congratulations.

Plus, if you're home, you can just go to a matinee where let's call it the rules of engagement are slightly different.

yeah Im not parent but from what I hear most matinees on the weekends are almost exclusively for residents of kiddie towne usa

you breeders DISGUST ME j/k

No kids, no superhero comix, part of the bargain.

Yeah, don't plenty of theaters do a "mommy matinee" early in the week?

xpost Havent' you heard? Biff! Pow! Comics aren't for kids anymore!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L7tHhnDw8s

I dunno, I took my first two babies everywhere but for some reason a movie seems like a bad idea. But perhaps I will look into a matinee because (back on topic) this movie is going to be amazing.

honestly the only thing I'd be concerned about NOW would be the volume level in the theater

it's kind of annoying realizing that we totally had a window where we could have taken babies to the movies with little to no problem and, now that they're toddlers, we've missed it for the next 2-3 years and even then only for specific, targeted-to-them movies

Apparently, the filmmakers barrelled ahead with Spider-Man as a central part of the plot long before they had secured the actual rights to use Spider-Man in the film. Without any real plan B on the off chance that negotiations with Sony fell through. Chutzpah! I love it!

Without knowing a lot about the Marvel universe etc, I'm trying to figure out how Spiderman could possibly be *central* to this plot.

Also there's some car commercial that shows more of the Black Panther tunnel chase scene. Looks really cool.

his name in the new cinematic universe is Peter Civil. the war is about him.

I'm assuming it's less "the movie is about Spider Man" and more "there is a critical plot point revolving around Spider Man that would have required serious reworking had the negotiations fallen through"

^ I know, I just wonder what that IS. mh's idea sounds promising.

I was reading something that...Kevin Feige, maybe?...said about Spider-Man in the MCU and how it's important to keep in mind that he would've been a little kid when aliens invaded New York and how that might have affected his worldview. It's an interesting perspective, and I'm sure it'll play into the plot somehow.

loki killed uncle ben

^ I know, I just wonder what that IS.

If it's the same as in the original, it'll be undercut by him not having existed in the Marvel movie world before.

https://twitter.com/abbiewastaken/status/721364959188398080

The first half of Civil War will offer a new perspective on the Chitauri invasion, as a pre-adolescent Peter Parker runs through NYC looking for his uncle, only to witness the Avengers crashing into and ultimately destroying the building Ben was in. Cut to several years later and three hours of grim Spider-on-Avenger violence ensue before Peter shouts out his endangered aunt's name, which just happens to also be Captain America's favorite month, and all fences are mended once the sworn enemies form a dubious bond over a proper noun.

is aunt may being hot (hotter? idk what everyone's type is) going to be a plot point

TBF, Aunt May has kinda been mildly Benjamin Button-ed over the course of her comics existence, as well. Ditko's May appears to be around 142 years old.

true

Marisa Tomei is 51, so if anything she's probably skews a little older than someone with a 15 year old nephew typically would

she's been on that super soldier serum tho

Marisa Tomei is Aunt May?!? Who's next? A fetus?

JG Thirlwell IS Aunt May

Or this guy? http://media.theiapolis.com/d4/hF3/i1P0W/k4/l1PFD/wZH/guild-navigator.jpg

Hmm. I didn't mean Jose Ferrer. Joke fail.

Would see a Spidey with Foetus as Aunt May haha

The first half of Civil War will offer a new perspective on the Chitauri invasion, as a pre-adolescent Peter Parker runs through NYC looking for his uncle, only to witness the Avengers crashing into and ultimately destroying the building Ben was in. Cut to several years later and three hours of grim Spider-on-Avenger violence ensue before Peter shouts out his endangered aunt's name, which just happens to also be Captain America's favorite month, and all fences are mended once the sworn enemies form a dubious bond over a proper noun.

― You're A Peein' Youth In Asia (Old Lunch), Tuesday, April 19, 2016 10:45 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

IIRC that was one of the russos who said that wrt Peter Parker being abt 7yo when the first Avengers happened
That seems odd bcz I could have SWORN that movie came out only 4 years ago. I guess MCU time dilation between films has been a lot more than I figured although I guess Stark building all those shedloads of wacky alternate suits between Avengers 1 and Iron Man 3 probably took up a couple of years at least

How old is nu-Spider-Man supposed to be?

Young-ish high school, prob like 14 or 15.

Which is younger even than OG Spidey. I didn't realize until I read the silver age stuff a while back that there were only like two or three years worth of comics where he was in high school (maybe already a senior when the comic started, iirc?).

the comic was running in "real time" for a while, wasn't it? so he was probably 15 or 16

we need a 7 year old Spidy

JG Thirlwell IS Spider-Foetus

lol i just remembered there was supposed to be a sinister six movie and a whole spider-man cinematic universe from sony

as much as i'm looking forward to seeing spidey in the mcu i'm a little disappointed we won't get the schadenfreude of seeing that appalling idea come to pass

I think that's still the plan - after his appearance in Civil War, it goes back to Sony (but with the next Spiderman film produced by Feige/Pascal).

But still set in the MCU I think?

There's some (extremely well-specified no doubt - apparently he's barred from any of the TV series) overlap, yeah, but according to the Marvel announcement "Sony Pictures will continue to finance, distribute, own and have final creative control of the Spider-Man films."

http://marvel.com/news/movies/24062/sony_pictures_entertainment_brings_marvel_studios_into_the_amazing_world_of_spider-man

still only 14 years since raimi's first spidey movie btw

Any money he'll be in Infinity War.

There's also apparently an animated Spider-Man movie coming out at some point, I guess? Further MCU appearances are presumably being negotiated on a case-by-case basis.

If I were forced to make predictions, I'd say that the new Spider-Man movie does better business than the recent Spidey movies, and Sony will incorrectly assume they had anything to do with that success and start to wield more control until they get the expanded universe they'd dreamed of and fuck it all up.

Oh come one, it'll all be worth it if we get a Golden Oldie spinoff movie...

http://www.theouthousers.com/images/jck//Elf%20With%20a%20Gun/goldenoldie4.jpg

a real shame he's barred from tv as the netflix shows in particular are where he belongs but that's always kind of been the conflict w/ spiderman where the character works best on that smaller scale but because of his popularity gets worked into the big planetary crisis stuff that make more sense for iron man or thor. still even though too many characters plagues these movies more and more as does the increase in which these movies serve as a trailer for the next movie and even though i'm generally 'comic book movies are bad for cinema' and 'jesus christ we're adults', i still got a charge seeing spidey pop up in that trailer

None of the movie superheroes have appeared in any of the MCU tv series though, only some supporting characters like Nick Fury and Peggy Carter and Sif. The series seem the place for B/C list characters, and the "main" superheroes are kept in movies only.

I was reading a listicle thing that broke down all of the MCU people's contracts, which was some pretty interesting prediction fodder. It seems like Sebastian Stan has just about the longest contract currently and Chris Evans's is almost fulfilled, so read into that what you will. My guess, though, is that we'll see some departures in the not-too-distant future and the cast of characters will become a little less unwieldy. A little.

(Also re: that listicle, I've been rewatching all of the movies lately and at the end of the first Cap movie, it seemed clear for the first time that Red Skull didn't actually die and I was excited thinking that he might be back soon, but then I read that Weaving said in no uncertain terms that he was done unless they basically strongarmed him into fulfilling his obligation to make an additional two appearances or whatever.)

Red Skull would be one of the easier characters to replace the actor of, though...

yeah but it helps that it wouldn't make sense for iron man or the hulk to be worried about taking down muggers or whatever (i'm ignoring agents of shield where they should be more visible probably)(agent carter had the advantage of "those guys aren't alive yet"), whereas in the netflix series it's not as farfetched that spidey might have reason to interact at some point w/ daredevil or punisher what w/ him being a vigilante in the same city. also seems that while yeah alien invasion would have an impact on him, the rise of costumed vigilantism in his city might have also been an influence as well. it's a shame also cuz spidey could add some levity to the netflix corner.

xp where they do appear (Captain America in Agent Carter), they're existing footage.

IIRC Evans has said he'd like to move from acting to directing? So it seems likely he'll die in Infinity War and Bucky will become the new Cap. Or they might kill him in this one already, like in the CW comic, but it'll turn out to be faked, and he'll return in IW to be killed properly. Making a heroic sacrifice against Thanos seems a more likely way for him to finally face the curtain than getting sniped in the middle of a hero civil war.

(xxpost)

evans in interviews has always seemed like he was ready to put this behind him and he was basically forced into it by his agents but lately he's been more 'i love doing them and would love to keep doing them', whether that's because doing captain america let's him make the movies he wants to make or because he know his toils are almost over idk. my assumption has been he dies in civil war and then comes back in infinity war (2 probably), having cap die 'because' of iron man takes both of them out then you have whatever happen to thor and hulk in ragnarok and then you have earth's mightiest heroes either decimated or distracted just at the moment they're needed most when thanos comes rolling in.

(i'm ignoring agents of shield where they should be more visible probably)

AoS is the only place where this movie/TV separation actually irritates me; there's no reason why that helicarrier in Age of Ultron wasn't manned by the AoS characters instead of Fury (who hasn't even worked for SHIELD since Winter Soldier) and some randos. And even though Coulson's death was a major motivator for the Avengers in the first movie, apparently Coulson or Fury or anyone else hasn't bothered to tell them that he was resurrected. It makes no sense to have a unified universe for both the movies and the TV series if they are kept separate anyway. I'm hoping that the TV superheroes will at least have a cameo in Infinity War, when everyone and their aunt goes to battle with Thanos.

having cap die 'because' of iron man takes both of them out then you have whatever happen to thor and hulk in ragnarok and then you have earth's mightiest heroes either decimated or distracted just at the moment they're needed most when thanos comes rolling in.

Tony's vision in Age of Ultron suggests everyone but him will die by Infinity War, though it remains to be seen whether it's Thanos who kills them or someone else. And I guess they can then just hit the reset button with the Gauntlet, like they did in the comics. (Though they'd still have to explain why the Gauntlet can't bring Cap back.)

My main wish for IW is that they include the plot twist with Nebula into it... I love the character, and Karren Gillan is a good actor, and the twist was my favourite part of Infinity Gauntlet, which was otherwise fairly predictable. Plus the fact that the movie Nebula is actually Thanos' adoptive daughter, instead of a supposed granddaughter he's never met, would add a nice classical tragedy flavour to plot, where they to adapt it from IG.

It really is irritating that there isn't more integration between the movies and the TV shows. And now, in the wake of the revelation that the surge of new Inhumans in Agents of SHIELD won't be addressed in Civil War (and that the filmmakers maybe weren't even aware of what was happening on AoS), the MCU people have been more vocal about how it's difficult to sync up the movies and the shows because they're working on different schedules and it's hard to keep track of who's doing what and oh hey what's that shiny thing over there behind you. You know what? You're the ones who decided to set all of this stuff in the same universe. Step up and make it work.

And it really doesn't have to amount to much more than a few cameos and cursory acknowledgement of what's happening elsewhere. The Inhumans thing is galling because you'd think (if you're one of the seven people who watch the show) that a spontaneous swell of Terregenesis-ed metahumans would pretty heavily inform the desire to register people with powers.

Particularly considering the plot in AoS about government task-forces sweeping up new Inhumans - that's free plot mechanics just lying there.

I guess the filmmakers are afraid the people who watch the movies but not the TV shows would be confused by references to the latter? But really, all it would it to take is to add some minute-long news clip where it's explained that new superpowered people are emerging because a chemical spill is causing them to mutate. That wouldn't be any more confusing to non-Marvel geeks than all the flash-forwards in Age of Ultron.

Wonder when/if they are going to start laying the groundwork for Infinity War. I suspect they will simplify Thanos rather than complicate things with all the abstract cosmic entities, like Death and Eternity. With the current schedule, they pretty much just have Guardians 2 and Thor 3 to get into all the cosmic stuff, right? Infinity War is 2018.

I'd wager that most of the stuff with Thanos as any kind of central character will take place in the two Infinity War movies. So, yeah, it'll most likely be a loose sketch of the comics version of the character.

I assume they will introduce Death, his love for her is such an important part of Thanos' character (right down his name) that it'd be weird to leave it out... Plus they already teased that with the "to court death" line in the Avengers post-credits stinger. But yeah, no Eternity probably, and I assume Vision will replace Adam Warlock in IW... Warlock is such a complicated character, and the GoG movie is the only place left where they could introduce him, but I don't think they'll do it. And if they're gonna adapt Infinity Gauntlet's plot, the part where Warlock has to banish the good and evil within him to handle the Gauntlet could be easily done with Vision, since an AI wouldn't have those qualities to begin with.

Regarding the Red Skull, I half-expected his consciousness to be the real villain in Winter Soldier, although Zola played that role well. I originally guessed they'd use some of Brubaker's comic events as a partial outline and that Robert Redford's character would be haunted by the Skull's consciousness after he had some contact with a cosmic cube fragment or something.

I think it's better they didn't go that way, but the concept could pop up

And Tuomas otm, there's no way they're going to go full Starlin

No Pip the Troll no cred.

I think Moondragon is the only Infinity Watch member who still has a decent chance of appearing, possibly in GotG 2. She has a distinctive visual look, plus there aren't any proper telepaths in the MCU yet. And they would finally introduce the non-straight superhero people have been asking for (not counting that supporting SHIELD agent in AoS).

They kinda stole Moondragon's look for the MCU version of Nebula, though. And since Drax isn't an earthling in the MCU, the father/daughter connection there would be dropped (unless they made Moondragon an alien, too).

Maxam will definitely be there, though.

I think Nebula later became bald and cyborg in the comics, which is what the movie version was based on, not Moondragon. Besides being bald, they have little in common visually.

Introducing an alien Moondragon would not be hard... Drax thinks his whole family died, but maybe his daughter secretly survived? Maybe she was even adopted and raised by one of Ronan's generals, to add some extra drama to her and Drax' relationship?

So this opens in the UK tomorrow - is that ahead of the American release again?

Yup. Not til next week in the US.

Unamerican as eff, imo.

President Trump will stop this crap of Not America getting our American movies before America does, that's for sure.

it's already in progress. whadya think the Civil War is being fought over?!

Opened yesterday in Australia.

You foreigners make me sick

Does no one remember 9/11?

is that the US release date?

off to see this later today - will report back with obsessively detailed spoilers immediately afterwards

i'd been assuming that steve rogers would buy the farm in this one but the release in non-america before getting released in yes-america makes me wonder, would they really do that knowing that his death would inevitably be spoiled far and wide before release day in the us? anyway, let us know!

watching an all-American symbol die horribly is marvel's gift to the rest of the world

I've heard that the back half of the movie is nothing but slo-mo Cap eviscera whizzing past your ears in 3-D. Surprised that Marvel was able to talk the MPAA down from a hard NC-17.

i can exclusively report that spider-man is fucking delightful in this movie

also the rest of it is really good. definitely in the top tier of marvel movies. also, weirdly, a lot of people wearing baseball caps to appear incognito.

TBF, I've never been able to recognize someone I knew if they were wearing a baseball cap. I just assumed they were a baseball player.

Good to hear that your impression seems in sync with early reviews. Psyched.

there's a lot to like! I felt like the second act, enjoyable as it is, might be skewing unexpectedly skewing a bit too much towards comedy but it pulls it back with a suprisingly small, grounded but very effective finale. it's really good!

as a corollary, people I know who constantly wear baseball caps do not look like themselves without them

Yeah, who can recognize DiCaprio without his?

gr8080

in a way I'm glad I saw batman vs superman first cuz this is like a masterclass in how to make a film about conflict between allies that feels logical and earned and BvsS was, uh, very much not

black panther gets maybe the same screentime as wonder woman but they manage to give him an entire character arc and he is super-badass. can't wait to see him again.

one of the things I liked most about winter soldier was how crunchy and fierce the fight scenes were and this takes them even further - some of the fight choreography, particularly in the first 20 minutes or so, is amazing.

roll on the us opening so we can talk about this properly :(

totally agree about the fight choreography. and the last fight scene, while i had some misgivings about it on narrative levels, was kinda breathtaking when the camera just stopped moving for a few seconds (probably the longest in the entire movie lol) and REDACTED and REDACTED and REDACTED are just going at it

still feel like the whole civil war concept is a little schmoopy but its much more a logical outgrowth of the plot machinations here than in the comic version

thought the Gettysburg section was a little gratuitous though

I need to stop checking this thread ugh

SPOILERS!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRPoiTHMuzc

the thing that bugged me most about this was the giant futura caption that popped up every time the action moved to a different location - i feel like that specific design is going to date the film quicker than anything else

the more i think about this the more impressed i am that they took the civil war concept and actually made it work so much better than the godforsaken comic which inspired it. pretty much every character's motivation seems logical, no-one is objectively right or wrong, the hero-on-hero fight isn't a grimdark battle to the death (in fact it's probably the most straight-up entertaining section of the movie), and the antagonist's plan is both small-scale and tied to the themes of the movie. plus it also works as a continuation of the bucky plot from winter soldier.

there are some bits that are more transparently driven by the need to set up stuff for other movies than i'd like, primarily the inclusion of spider-man, which is almost entirely unnecessary to the plot, but it's just so much fucking fun to see peter parker doing spider-stuff that it's impossible to hold it against the movie. certainly the setup stuff is nowhere near as intrusive as it was in age of ultron.

damn i wanna see this again

I keep cracking up thinking about the vision's smart-casual attire in this

Vision has long been a fashion plate.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/visionoutfits06a.jpg

he does study a chessboard at one point!

(spoiler alert i guess)

How could u.

I have tix to see this on Monday at a special screening hosted by the Russo Brothers: http://thedaily.case.edu/news/emmy-award-winning-directors-joe-and-anthony-russo-to-host-local-screening-of-marvels-captain-america-civil-war-may-2/

oh wow, awesome!

Saw this last night in a packed venue at the event mentioned above -- it was done as a thank-you by the Russos to Case Western Reserve University, helping them fundraise for the next phase of the new Maltz Performing Arts Center. Had a nice intro by CWRU president Barbara Snyder, and then Anthony Russo talked a bit. Joe Russo was absent as he's apparently got some kind of chest infection from all the traveling they've been doing to overseas premieres.

Russo told some funny anecdotes about their time at CWRU as grad students, including constantly pestering Prof. Louis Gianetti (who film buffs know as the author of the text Understanding Movies) for advice and feedback; and forming a short-lived improv troupe, which they then reviewed in the student paper under the byline of a name they picked from the phone book, and gave themselves a scathingly bad review.

Anyway, I'd love to let lose with some spoilers for this movie, but until people see it this week, just a few non-spoiler observations:

- Russos continue to be great at choreographing and shooting action. You always know where things are happening.
- Despite the amazing number of superheroes in this movie, it feels very human-scale and not "comic-book." That is, the stakes are big but revolve around people, not cosmic or existential threats.
- Paul Rudd remains my #1 man crush.
- There is what I thought was an insanely bad, uncanny valley moment in the movie, then it's lampshaded as being something other than what you thought.
- Daniel Bruhl is underused.
- Black Panther, y'all.
- Peter Parker finally feels like a legitimate teenager.

I am down with that except fuck a Paul Rudd.

The action sequences are great, and the one that starts in an apartment and moves is amazing, half way through I had to remember to breathe - and I'm still smiling at *how* they introduce Black Panther in that sequence. And the balance where you don't believe any of them are invincible, they are dangerous to each other, but they are emphatically not regular humans.

(tempted to put up the spoilers screens to find out more about the uncanny valley you're talking about)

Fuckin chess spoilers can a mod get that pls ffs

What the hell, I guess I'll go see this tonight.

this was so great. no spoilers at all, but one piece of Don Cheadle's dialogue almost made me tear up.

it knew how to offset the more pathos-y moments with the right blend of humor without turning it into a farce.

BvS was a skidmark compared to this. a nutty, corny skidmark

Worth the price of admission just for, "Are you Tony Stank?"

i hope that was the dialogue that made neanderthal tear up

Yeah, great to see Stan Lee turning up in another movie about a character he didn't create

Stan Lee is about a million times luckier than Ringo Starr

The whole audience cheered and applauded at the end of this. Don't think that would have happened at many B vs S screenings... especially in peckham.

The one character that Stan Lee indisputably created by himself is Stan Lee.

Frankly Mr Stank Lee

relax everyone stan lee will be dead soon

Now that Marvel is part of Disney, Stan gets a cryogenic suspension unit next to Walt

he's like the winter soldier now - they only break him out of cryogenic to make cameos in movies

I'll see this this weekend. In the meantime, I volunteer a couple of times a week at the elementary school library, and noticed today that the boys in the kindergarten class (most of whom are still more or less picture book level) were super excited to check out any book with "Civil War" in the title. I think this is a great opportunity for Marvel to get in on cross-promotional education opportunities: they should start affixing important historical events to every movie from here on out. "Spider-Man: Magna Carta." "Iron Man: Japanese Internment Camps." "Ant-Man: Dawn of Genetic Mapping." "Black Panther: Ada Lovelace, First Computer Programmer."

lol Tony Stank was great.

and "can you move your seat up?" "No."

also ws Aunt May

Aunt Tomei

Tomei-aged Aunt May makes way more sense than the traditional Aunt May who is somehow as old as Peter's great great grandmother.

is marisa tomei immortal? srs q

I thought Tony Stark was one of the few characters Stan Lee actually had a significant hand in creating. Well, the idea of a rich arms dealer who was also a superhero, anyway.

Eh, people have kids at odd ages, families have odd gaps between siblings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/06/movies/captain-america-civil-war-review-chris-evans.html

This very crowded, reasonably enjoyable installment in the Avengers cycle reveals, even more than its predecessors, an essential truth about the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It’s not so much a grand science-fiction saga, or even a series of action-adventure movies, as a very expensive, perpetually renewed workplace sitcom.

This left me cold. Peaked about halfway thru with the big airport battle. The rest = zzzzz

Also really tired of these movies all looking the same. Dudes in colorful spandex fighting in anonymous parking structures and shit

Yeah workplace sitcom is about right

that's a feature not a bug etc etc

nouveau work sitcom

If anyone can convince me these movies are actually like JLI or Hitman I promise I will watch them

NB Hero Hotline is not high quality enough, Damage Control is too mired in impenetrably irrelevant Marvel continuity IME

No, these movies aren't actually like JLI or Hitman. For which we can all be thankful.

They're doing a comedic Damage Control TV series at some point.

Good old them.

I've tried my damnedest to figure out who owns the rights to Damage Control but all I've turned up is a web of anonymous holding companies so I'm gonna have to go with 'them' for the time being until more clues come to light about this enduring mystery.

Awww I loved JLI

this was enjoyable. black panther was badass, spidey was great, marisa tomei is still hot af. definitely not as good as winter soldier but it was fine. if you're getting sick of marvel movies though i don't think there's gonna be a lot here for you.

it's hard for to imagine how they shoehorn so many characters into two 1/2 hours gracefully. do they pull that off?

also i had a friend in college (cough almost 20 years ago cough) who had the biggest crush on marisa tomei, his dorm room was plastered with pictures of her

(another wall was plastered with images of bruce springsteen FWIW)

it's hard for to imagine how they shoehorn so many characters into two 1/2 hours gracefully. do they pull that off?

p much. the OG characters are fairly easy, and the new ones are pretty deftly inserted (Spidy transition a little forced, but it's still cool as fuck)

I've tried my damnedest to figure out who owns the rights to Damage Control but all I've turned up is a web of anonymous holding companies so I'm gonna have to go with 'them' for the time being until more clues come to light about this enduring mystery.

It's not a mystery that the best of JLI was done by either Maguire or Hughes with Giffen, DeMatteis and Helfer. It's also not a mystery that the best of Hitman was done by Ennis & McCrea. The covers might not say it, but the OK-to-goodish bits of Damage Control I've read were by McDuffie & Colón, or especially McDuffie & Baker. It was the pleasant, sitcommy nature of 'Mazing Man by The Answer Man and deStefano that made me get Hero Hotline out of 50c bins.

Based on their excellent work as directors and senior, hands-on producers on television sitcoms Community and Arrested Development, I'd be very intrigued by a superhero workplace sitcom by the Russos, if it was on the level of the other superhero workplace sitcoms I cited.

From his work writing and directing on sitcoms and comedy films and being funny on comedy gameshow podcasts, I was looking forward for years to Edgar Wright's comedy superhero film, and disappointed when he got boned off it weeks before production. Rudd's comedy instincts, combined with an enormous appreciation for Reed's directing and commentary track work on comedy films, got me to give their replacement work a go when I had to wait a few hours for somebody and nothing else was on.

Being mildly diverted by that movie where the little guy from Ghostbusters shrank his kids 22 years before didn't make me think the first Captain America would be a good or funny movie. Thinking The Transporter 2 was one of the best visually-directed action films I'd seen in years and years has not yet made me interested in seeing the second Hulk film. Liking the comedy film Kiss Kiss Bang Bang means I'll give Iron Man 3 a chance if it's ever five minutes from starting on TV when I'm home and not about to do anything else.

Comedy action films The Specials, Slither and Super, combined with Mantlo's brother's statement, made me go and see Gunn's next film on purpose in the cinema.

I've watched every episode of Buffy seasons 1-7 and Angel seasons 1-5 at least twice, but I went to see Much Ado About Nothing in the theatre in 2013, and have not been botherd to watch The Avengers even when it's been five minutes from starting on TV when I'm home.

Speaking of, the comedy relief bits with Keaton and Elton in the previous Much Ado I saw in the theatre don't instill much confidence that Thor is an effective workplace sitcom. What's it closer to: JLI #51, a Michael Schur show, or Keaton's Dogberry?

Alias is the easily second-least-awful Bendis comic I've read, but it didn't convince me to sample anything else he's done since in the hopes of similar bearability. The "idiot plot"ting, endless wheelspinning and utterly flat structure of Jessica Jones has not done anything to make me give The OC or the Twilight film adaptations the benefit of my previous profound doubts.

Successful executive producer of television Dwayne McDuffie is still dead IIRC?

I thought this was OK. It's got some issues--it might not be quite as good as Age of Ultron tbph--but the stuff it does well, it does really well.

Sorry, I meant to note "Rudd's comedy instincts" in workplace sitcoms like Wet Hot American Summer and Parks & Recreation. Not so sold on McKay's own workplace comedies The Other Guys or Anchorman 2, but the resulting film didn't appear to be trying to be a workplace sitcom to me - though it would likely have been much stronger if it had. Have Peña work within a variety of ensemble scenes, rather than stealing the screen, let Douglas' gravitas be undercut through interaction, and probably do more with that guy who plays Agent Kington in workplace sitcom / action film hybrid Decker.

man u shd pitch marvel or smth

this was, i thought, much better than age of ultron. possibly it helped that i saw it in 4d, half-drunk--every action sequence seemed more interesting than every equivalent sequence in that movie; there was a lot more to work with in light relief; none of the 'serious' bits as out-of-left-field forced as scarlett johansson's weird monologue whedon apparently had left over from dollhouse. that said, i'd probably have felt better about myself if i'd gone to see a movie for grown-ups.

the big airport fight sequence is probably the first time i've seen, on film, the wacky fun over-the-top superhero fight done well--ant-man being launched on hawkeye's arrows, and so forth. the action-as-in-punching-people pretty much a freitag's triangle deal, building from the ground-level stuff to the increasingly ridiculous, and declining to a finish with three guys punching each other repeatedly in front of a fixed camera. the action-as-in-the-narrative kind of all over the place. which is okay, i guess, for an action film--and kind of free-ing--as long as the whizzbang moments follow the correct rules of scale, you can put whatever you want in between them, it's a free lunch. winter soldier had much better free lunches.

this ruled

xp really? Because I did think everything Black Widow did in this movie felt a little forced and weird. I feel like they need to get her the fuck out of the Avengers tbh, have her hang out w Daredevil or something for a while...

Anyways, I'm p much undecided at this point. Spidey was great, Black Panther was great, the airport scene was exhilarating, and RDJ, Evans, and Stan delivered great performances throughout. There were definitely stretches of this movie where I kept thinking 'This isn't actually that good ," but I left the the theater p satisfied, so it's possible a lot of my problems w the movie boils down to minor quibbles with some of the decisions the Russo bros. made that prob couldn't be improved upon goven what all had to happen here, and the fact that I thought the movie's take on Zemo was pretty terrible...

i saw this, it didn't seem particularly better or worse than several of the recent marvel movies. thought the demands of franchising -- shoehorning all the characters into the plot -- meant that, as usual with these things, the narrative was fairly lumpy. and a lot of the action lacked kinetic force for just being hard to tell what was happening. i know, i know, that's the familiar complaint, but it was true a lot of the time. (e.g. the staircase fight with cap and bucky; the airport stuff was a little bit better.) in general thought the utter lack of visual filigree was a little bit depressing. there were some downright ugly shots, which you don't really expect in something this pricey. but i wasn't bored, much.

nearly every narrative beat of this movie felt overfamiliar to me. i know that genre is all about taking familiar materials and varying them up, but somehow i felt like this embodied that truism in an especially literal way-- like the whole film was just a light reshuffling of narrative beats, character motivations, etc. from other superhero movies, probably other marvel movies.

i mean, i guess it was just about what i expected, maybe a little less given the surprisingly outstanding reviews...

i miss mazing man. still have all the floppies.

I thought this was OK. Had some real "Empire Strikes Back" vibes (and not just for the obvious reasons). A lot of dark turns, a lot of "I am your father" stuff, a lot of walking into rooms and having the automatic doors slam shut and then there's a fight. Ant-man was a great addition to the vibe. Spider-man was good, but super weird how he was just squeezed in to the story. Vs. Black Panther, who was awesome and whose introduction had some weight to it.

Was pretty put off by the pervasive CG work, tbh. I know these things are virtually (no pun intended) all CG, but the character animation of Iron Man and Spider-man in particular was a little distracting.

Was thinking how this Spider-man was essentially the equivalent of bizarro Marvel's Quicksilver. Young, funny, quippy, etc.

bizarro Marvel's Quicksilver.

What's the difference between Marvel's Quicksilver and bizarro Marvel's Quicksilver?

(Also young, funny, quippy = normal Spider-Man, no?)

that's one of the great things about this - we finally got an actual teenager Spider-Man

He's not being continually ground down by Great Responsibility, for a start.

they just allude to it for a second and then it's quickly forgotten among all the banter about his hot Aunt May

are we doing full spoilers now?

ok if not now then when is cap gonna die already? i thought his contract was up like 4 movies ago

tbh marvel should always leak false info about contracts ending, actually build some stakes

Xpost I meant the scene stealing Quicksilver in the X-Men movies, who is young and funny and irrelevant, vs the one in the real Marvel movies, who is not. And is dead.

Just like Civil War itself, this was mainly Captain America: The Talkening. It never really got going, plus Zero's plan was utterly ludicrous and way more complex than it needed to be. It really only works if he always knew that PLOT SPOILERS REDACTED and if then all he needed was the film then what was all the "mission debrief" in aid of?

Airport scene was cool but felt incongruous, if Cap movies are conspiracy thrillers (see also "hey, Manchurian Candidate").

I also wasn't keen on the overly kinematic way the fights were filmed, especially early on.

what on earth does 'kinematic' mean in that sentence

ok if not now then when is cap gonna die already? i thought his contract was up like 4 movies ago

at the scene in the end where he smashes the thing, i was like, hm, let me just google to see if that thing has the significance it has in the first movie it was introduced, oh, guess it does, well, that was some bathos for me

Friggin' loved this, unsurprisingly. I don't go into these movies expecting groundbreaking cinematic works or novel takes on the narrative form but I'm always thoroughly satisfied. Marvel makes a certain type of movie and they do what they set out to do so well.

Boring reiteration of the points everyone in the world has already made: Spider-Man was spectacular, and it was such a great choice picking an actor whose voice hasn't even properly broken. The moment with Ant-Man (you know the one) was genuinely thrilling and, while I should've totally expected it, I was totally surprised. Action scenes were great and startlingly coherent throughout (cinematic fight scenes have come a loooooong way in my time). I'm pretty sure I was grinning like an idiot throughout.

The only real criticism I have is on the behalf of the casual fan inasmuch as this definitely felt like the thirteenth film in a series. As a Marvel Zombie, I love that it feels like you picked up a random issue in the middle of a years-long comic run, but I can see where the multitude of references to previous films and lack of clear resolution could be off-putting to people who just want to dip in and enjoy a Captain America movie.

xpost Google failed you, then, because the thing Cap smashed lost its significance at the end of the third movie of the guy in possession of said thing. But I definitely saw that scene in the context of audience members who maybe hadn't seen or didn't remember said third movie and were probably like, "holy shit, did Cap actually just (REDACTED)?!?"

You guys, GIANT-MAN

I guess we're officially doing spoilers, then.

@thomp xpost

I'm using kinematic to means the in-close, constantly moving camera that imo distracts from the action. All the early fights leading up to that thing that happens w Scarlet Witch are particularly bad for it.

I'm sure it's a word I've seen used before, I'd guess a portmanteau of kinetic and cinematic, if not then I've invented it.

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You mean the Greengrass/Spielberg you're right there in the action shake-cam? Yeah, it could have been a little smoother, I guess.

I just saw this yesterday and I have no idea what any of you are talking about re: Captain America smashing something. I mean, there is a lot of smashing.

Also a lot of power-splainin' going on - "Falcon, go get your little Falcon out and use it to run recon and set a trap." "Spider-man, use your adhesive webbing and great powers of agility to stop that thing." "Scarlet Witch, is it true that your ill-defined powers allow you to move things with your mind?" That kind of thing. No real problem with it, because it's largely used in service of fun. I liked Tony Stark's self-conscious "does anyone else have any surprise new powers that can help us out of this mess?" I like that the Vision's powers are as-yet totally ill-defined here. Keeps him mysterious. That's a great example of comics people being at an advantage, because even if a newbie saw him first in Avengers and now here, I think they would still have trouble telling exactly what he is - human? robot? Spock?- and what he can do. Clearly he will become more important in the next Avengers films.

Josh, we're talking about the very final instance of Cap smashing.

box office records amirite

xpost I still don't know what you mean! You mean the iconic part of that other character's costume that he crushes with his shield? What's the significance of that? Oh, I see, you're saying it's *not* significant anymore, because it serves a different purpose than it initially did. I think I get it. Though clearly said character with a shield does not kill the other character, so I'm not sure why anyone would think it significant, other than how long they linger on the twisting the knife, as it were.

Josh, yes, that's the cam I mean. I'm not a fan I guess.

The reactor. He smashes the reactor in Iron Man's chest.

box office records amirite

― i do not sense the entity ted (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, May 8, 2016 10:49 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

In its US opening weekend after being open for a week overseas (so based on like eight days' receipts total), Civil War's global box office is currently just $200 million shy of Superman v Batman's lifetime gross, which I'd guess it's almost guaranteed to surpass by the time it's been open in the US for a full seven days. Such beautiful schadenfreude.

It's already the 87th highest grossing movie of all time. Globally. After it's been open for like two days in the US.

I don't usually give that much of a shit about this stuff but they deserve the success.

i just remembered the brief shot from the final fight of Bucky yelling 'you killed cap!' at iron man which was in one of the trailers but isn't in the movie - i guess they shot that just to fuck with freeze-framing nerds huh

I guess it was 'steve's dead'

https://49.media.tumblr.com/bec0c7371e5509ad8d5734f74cade9c1/tumblr_nye5eqOaS31ue1oh7o2_500.gif

It's already the 87th highest grossing movie of all time. Globally. After it's been open for like two days in the US.

You, ah, you do know what globally means, right?

Xpost got it. Reactor used to be needed to keep Stark alive, but in this movie it's ... Just a chest reactor.

xpost I, ah, I do know what globally means, yes. If you scroll up just a scooch you'll see the part where I acknowledge that it's been open for a week elsewhere.

Heading in to see this now

he's breakin his heart guys don't you get it *THE SYMBOLISM*

Reactor is just a power source for a suit of armor that also is a rocket, smartphone, life support system, etc.

I was actually slightly curious to see if the suit would still allow Stark move after it had been disabled, tbph

I am in the theater now, so you guys can start posting spoilers in ten minutes when I turn off my phone

The villain is the guy from Mungo Jerry

This movie would have been 10% better if they didn't bother with a bad guy at all and just had our heroes getting mad at each other and beating one another up. Because this bad guy was barely even there. I wasn't even sure if he was a villain from the books? Because he's not the villain of the same name from the comics, right, just some Euro shlub with a grudge?

Daniel Brühl is one hell of a soporific screen presence.

i saw some idiot alleged-adult on the subway w/ a CaptAm shield/backpack and wanted to hulksmash

Airport scene was cool but felt incongruous, if Cap movies are conspiracy thrillers (see also "hey, Manchurian Candidate").

Only Winter Soldier had aspects of conspiracy thriller. The first CA flick was Joe Johnston finally getting to do a proper WWII-action-with-some-dieselpunk flick that he attemped to do with the Rocketeer.

I enjoyed this a lot. Not sure if it tops CA:WS overall, but I read something a coupla days that I agree with: that the airport sequence was when they really did finally pull off everything that a grand superhero comic book film should be.

Interesting that you deliberately have this film coming out so close after BvS and the contrast between two different views of collateral damage.

Zemo in the comics looks like this:

http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/images/c_fill,h_540,w_960/t_mp_quality/igodeuuz5oapfau1imjf/could-baron-helmut-zemo-become-marvel-s-smartest-movie-villain-655834.jpg

and we seriously didn't need him in this flick.

Also, we live in a time where the majority of trailers in front of a tentpole superhero films are other superhero films(and Rogue One, in my screening, which was fun to see projected that big. Those klaxons sound GREAT on a theater's sound system).

Most surprising aspect of this film was that there were still great moments not spoilered by trailers or advance hype.

I love that the 'punch you in your perfect teeth' line that was so RMDE-worthy in the trailers is totally recontextualized as a friendly jab in the movie and works just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJvUTFVqwJQ

I love that the 'punch you in your perfect teeth' line that was so RMDE-worthy in the trailers is totally recontextualized as a friendly jab in the movie and works just fine.

totally. I didn't love this as much as I thought I might - the setup felt a bit forced and the preposterous appearance of some ~incriminating footage~ kinda dulled the edge of what should have been a big moment, but scene by scene it was great. spidey was both hilarious and unexpectedly profound. "can you move your seat up" and attendant schtick a total delight.

yeah one of the best recurring jokes is def the relationship between Bucky and Falcon, like two jealous little bros/BFs

I really liked this

Set-up felt a little dull-draggy but mostly bcz I'm like a 5 year old I WANNA SEE IRON MAN & CAP FLY AROUND AND PUNCH EACH OTHER

Black Panther, Giant Man, Spidey all A+ ... and I got kinda teary towards the end. Daniel Bruhl great, needed more imo

Yeah hopefully Zemo'll be developed. Nice to have an antagonist survive the movie, tho. Also, thanks to the casting of someone young and dorky I actually liked this Spiderman.

Black Panther the only one who abides by a moral high ground was great

Yea he was great

I really appreciated that no one clapped for the Stan Lee cameo. enough already.

i can't be sore at those. i mean, how much longer can that guy possibly live?
plus "Tony Stank"

I don't have a lot of respect for him but I kinda like his cameos, esp this one

his best cameo is ant-man, b/c it's a split second and that's about all it needs; no point in dragging it out.

the preposterous appearance of some ~incriminating footage~ kinda dulled the edge of what should have been a big moment

I thought this was great, the slow burn of what happened back in 1991, what could possibly be so important, and then when it appears it's what flips the switch from "We have become grudging allies because I, maverick millionaire Tony Stark, have fucked up yet again" to "I am going to take your head off".

pretty much the only plot element in the movie to make me sympathetic to Tony

btw how damn weird is that youngening tech they used in Ant-Man and this, like crazy uncanny valley stuff, but it's actually working? it helps that they have plenty of film reference for both Douglas and Downey but still kinda surreal

That was the "uncanny valley moment" I referred to upthread -- at first I was like, "OK, this is weird and kind of unreal, we all know what RDJ looked like in 1991 and this looks like an RDJ Realdoll or something." Then it's revealed as some kind of sophisticated VR/hologram thing that Tony Stank is demo-ing for MIT students and was like, "Oh, well that makes sense then."

I can't believe Roger Slattery and Hope Davis are the same age. He must have gone gray Steve Martin-style.

I'd kinda wondered if/how they were going to do Redwing and I guess that was an elegant solution to a character that would probably not work in this universe.

I'd told my gf before that they were making a Black Panther movie, which meant nothing to her at the time (she's watched all of the MCU stuff but knows nothing about the comics), but she was definitely excited about the prospect after seeing him in action. Between that and her similar excitement at seeing the trailer for the previously "who is that?" Doctor Strange (which looked fantastic on a big screen), it's clear these folks are doing their jobs well.

they gave us a 3-D trailer for Dr Strange. at a 2D showing.

Because Dr. Strange operates on, like, a higher dimension, man. It's a metaphor, do u see?

After the Dr. Strange trailer my daughter turned to me and said "wait, I thought he was a doctor?"

can we have a week of her posting to ilx for you? I like her style

I thought this was great, the slow burn of what happened back in 1991, what could possibly be so important, and then when it appears it's what flips the switch from "We have become grudging allies because I, maverick millionaire Tony Stark, have fucked up yet again" to "I am going to take your head off".

yeah, one of the things I liked most about this was the reveal of the team of dead winter soldiers followed by zemo's playing the video. after the huge battles at the end of the avengers movies and the previous cap movie it was cool that they swerved an earth-shattering threat in favour of something more character-based. compare and contrast w/ the stupid sudden appearance of doomsday at the end of batman vs superman

I've got to admit, I was totally expecting a rote face off between our heroes and a team of Winter Soldiers.

exactly! it was a nice bit of misdirection

slow burn? they basically imply what happened about twenty times!

well, I guess the "how will this play out when Tony finds out" is the slow burn

If they implied it, it was lost on me. I guess I can see it in retrospect, but I'd say it counts as a slow burn.

winter soldier kills someone in a car in 1991
tony stank replays the memory of his parents dying in a car accident
zemo repeatedly asks for an incident report of that date in 1991

I could be wrong, but I don't think that we're told it's a car accident, or what year it is - there's stuff in Iron Man / The Winter Soldier that says the date, but not (I think) here.

(I could have been just distracted by how uncanny valley retro-aged RDJ was, followed by the realisation that his dickery is of such an advanced degree that he'll wank around with his dead parents telling him they're proud of him in front of the MIT graduating class)

incredibly self-indulgent, but very telling in that the memory he wishes he could change the most (even after all that post-traumatic alien wormhole crap) is the time he was a dick to his parents when they were leaving for a trip because they died on the way

From IMDb trivia:

Originally Iron Man was only going to have a small role in this movie. However, Robert Downey Jr. asked for more screentime and a higher paycheck. Marvel CEO Ike Perlmutter planned to have Iron Man written out of the film completely, in which case the Russos had backup plans to adapt another story in the event that happened. However, Kevin Feige persuaded Marvel Pictures/Disney that Robert was fundamental to the film and this in turn led to Ike Perlmutter no longer being involved in the feature film side of Marvel Pictures..

So I'm wondering how much Zemo & Siberia was just left over from before, which is sorta why we get two movies here

I'd enjoy a version with less RDJ and fewer ALL THE HEROES battle scenes, but it turned out reasonably well for all the shoehorning

Civil War: Less Iron Man, More Black Panther Special Edition

that cgi young RDJ was so weird...esp because he looked super-healthy & not strung out lol

Haaaaa, I had not heard that about Perlmutter.

very much appreciated ant man revealing what he'd been trying with his suit

never liked iron man

i find it funny how casual science-inclined people tend to favour him and are slightly surprised to hear me hating on him

(probably just around me though)

I enjoy the movies but he's a jerk, that's his deal

shouldn't it be tory stank?

i guess i don't really like tony/IM either, but agree that he's not really supposed to be likable. more just entertaining. RDJ seems to be having such a good time in the part that it's hard not to get swept along.

However, Robert Downey Jr. asked for more screentime and a higher paycheck.

dude is already the world's highest-paid actor, he must be trying to put together his own moon colony or something.

I thought he looked a lot like Weird Science RDJ:
http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/robert-downey-jr-s-weird-science-of-acting-19880519/20130319-rdj-x624-1363720997.jpg

^^ bingo. kinda figured it was intentional

Marvel CEO Ike Perlmutter planned to have Iron Man written out of the film completely, in which case the Russos had backup plans to adapt another story in the event that happened

i hope it was capwolf

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RS6aELT1uKw/VFK9ymbrPSI/AAAAAAAA1BA/fUKYOC4OSUk/s1600/wolf4.PNG

I seem to remember them talking about doing something with the insane '50s Captain America right after Winter Soldier came out

Wat. I don't know which is more insane, the '50s Captain America manque or the idea of making a movie featuring that character. That's something you save for maybe like the nineteenth Captain America movie.

But I support Captain America IV: Capwolf.

Well I normally liveblog these things in comic strip form for the benefit of my brother, but tonight I am too tired and too drunk and too old and I tapped out after one scribbly attempt at an early scene:
http://i.imgur.com/21LtQKn.jpg
but yeah, this was entertaining, everyone involved is clearly having a lot of fun, even RDJ counting his monies...

Steve kissed a woman, I guess that means one of them will disappear for at least 50 years now

When Cap kissed the grandniece of his former flame and one of them said "that was...", I was sure the next word was going to be something entirely different.

dude is already the world's highest-paid actor, he must be trying to put together his own moon colony or something.

iirc he's said something in the past to the effect of his asking for more helps the rest of the cast get paid more too? idk I'm probably mis-remembering that.

those shiny brand new blank-ass baseball caps are way more conspicuous than the russos seem to think

Vision/Scarlet Witch mansion scenes were touching, that's what's really missing from this and Avengers 2. The action is fine, but without enough non-action setup it gets boring.

The whole thing hinged on worldwide anger at Avengers-related destruction, but they didn't spare a minute to debate that, like "we destroyed an entire city because the alternative was destroying the world, duh."

uh yeah but they created the dude who was destroying the city!!

Here was the other bit of older version mixed with Civil War trivia I was looking for, in terms of changing scripts:

Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely's original idea for Captain America 3 was a vastly different and much smaller film without the other Avengers, but Kevin Feige suggested they adapt Civil War instead. Certain parts of their original idea still made into the movie, such as the emphasis on Steve and Bucky's relationship, as well as the use of Baron Zemo as the villain.

uh yeah but they created the dude who was destroying the city!!

a city here, a city there

The whole thing hinged on worldwide anger at Avengers-related destruction, but they didn't spare a minute to debate that, like "we destroyed an entire city because the alternative was destroying the world, duh."

― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, May 9, 2016 8:31 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbh this is really it for me. not this point in general but any point at all i guess. i was 'with' the movie until it suddenly ended and i realized they never really went anywhere with the central argument, didn't really develop it much at all let alone offer some sort of conclusion. it mostly felt like a plot point to get to the emotional character stuff. i liked the emotional character stuff -- the russos are so, so much better at it than whedon that it's embarrassing -- but, like, civil war. i wish they went somewhere with it. the ending really seems like it got committeed or something.

they also made pretty much no attempt to make iron man's side seem tenable, and then validated cap's side later on by making the government guy a jerky bureaucrat. everyone watching these movies knows the earth would be dead and shit without the avengers and also that government programs should never be trusted because sometimes they're secretly nazis. have to give a little more effort to make iron man not look completely irrational.

they left out the destruction in an African country (forget where) during the Ultron affair when the Hulk went crazy and Iron Man went full hulkbuster to take him down! for some reason that really bugged me, like things being destroyed in Africa only mattered when it was in this movie

The comic Civil War that used Hulk going apeshit on innocents makes a lot more sense, but I guess they didn't want to introduce that kind of gray area to any of the MCU heroes.

Hulk going apeshit as a pretext*

i was 'with' the movie until it suddenly ended and i realized they never really went anywhere with the central argument, didn't really develop it much at all let alone offer some sort of conclusion.

The Russo bros have stated that this was intentional, that they wanted the issue to remain unresolved within the universe of the movie and to some extent within the mind of the viewer. And it makes sense, as we're likely to see a new paradigm similar to the comics' post-Civil War Avengers (wherein there was an official, government-sponsored Avengers team and a rogue, off-the-grid team), and I'm sure some of the upcoming movies will deal with how the respective sides of the argument actually play out in terms of dealing with different threats.

sounds right. Doctor Strange will probably be its own thing, but definitely a good chance Captain Marvel, Black Panther and Ant-Man and the Wasp all play into this

uh yeah but they created the dude who was destroying the city!!

Not w/ New York or DC, tho
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, May 9, 2016 8:39 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the point wasn't Ross saying that they didn't do the right thing in NY or DC (remember - he did acknowledge their heroics before he began criticizing them), but that there was civilian cost to some of their destruction in these melees.

and well, the Ultron fuckup was a pretty huge fuckup. and the deaths in Nigeria were probably avoidable (if they had perhaps not chosen to engage in the midst of a civilian population - maybe track em further down the road and strike when necessary).

anywho just saw this again - enjoyed it even more the second time around. not really sure what kind of 'conclusion' anybody was looking for. I would have hated it if they had some simple resolution after beating the shit out of each other for 2.5 hours. this somewhat leaves the future films in flux (who will retire, who is butthurt, etc).

also think there were plenty of dramatic moments in this.

have to give a little more effort to make iron man not look completely irrational.

err - because he agreed to government oversight of his team's initiatives? it isn't as if the accords were to *disband* the Avengers! weren't the Avengers part of the UN in later comics?

can't fathom how anybody wouldn't be (I apologize for this in advance) #teamironman after seeing this. Captain America's M.O. was purely emotional, resting on a few clumsy "what ifs" and his unyielding devotion to his childhood friend.

i mean he was pretty much the "regulation hurts more than it helps, maaaaaaan" guy

err - because he agreed to government oversight of his team's initiatives?

yes? in this universe they've created where every government goon ever is either an idiotic bureaucrat who doesn't ~understand~ superheroing (like literally the dude in this movie) or a secret nazi, yeah, they have to actually show how the accords would help anything. you could do a lot of generous work on #teamironman's behalf coming up with ways in which that would actually lead to fewer civilian deaths overall, but it's also not hard to imagine cap thinking it's just the first step in becoming a contracted super-soldier again. given the events of winter soldier why wouldn't he be paranoid? why wouldn't anyone watching be paranoid?

funny you mention steve acting emotionally when tony is spurred to do this because of a single emotional confrontation and girlfriend problems. it didn't come off to me like an actual good idea for the greater good, it came off as tony trying to pawn his guilt off onto an unfeeling government program.

i mean the movie literally had an evil goon disguised as a government goon purposely trying to turn bucky back into the winter soldier.

i don't know if they were a part of the UN in the comics because i don't read comics, i only have the movie universe to go by. and steve seemed done with the accords before bucky was even involved, they were well into this-is-now-100%-personal-suddenly territory there.

Excited to see the ramifications of ILX: Civil War

join my team for sexy hunks and paul rudd if you're into that

accords would have been worth it for a gyrich sighting

Paul Rudd made me glad I haven't seen Ant Man.

anywho just saw this again - enjoyed it even more the second time around.

Unlike Avengers 1 or GOTG, it was short on the funny to break up the punchy.

Like Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron, I immediately forgot the plot. Nonetheless, it was fun and mostly enjoyable. I really enjoyed the action sequences.

- Tony Stark's position is insane. A year ago in this universe SHIELD was destroyed by Hydra spies.
- Captain America has no discernible position. His name is Captain AMERICA. Why not reuse common American fears of the United Nations?
- Tony Stark is a sociopath. He confronts the costs of the Avengers and immediately asks a teenager to fight a group of superheroes.
- Vision, like Hulk and Thor, suffers from the problem of being too powerful. Ant-Man and Hawkeye are capable of fighting someone with an infinity stone?
- I guess Marvel introduced magic with Black Panther. I assumed they would introduce it with Doctor Strange and Iron Fist. In a world with magic, Scarlet Witch is an Inhuman?
- It's disappointing that the cinematic universe has become completely detached from the ABC and NetFlix universes.

It was never really connected. Jeph Loeb runs TV and I get the impression the MCU folks think he's and idiot

Right about Vision though. I assumed he was going to abstain from the fight and go meditate on a mountain or something

i get the vision/jarvis thing but must we really be stuck with ireland man

- Tony Stark's position is insane. A year ago in this universe SHIELD was destroyed by Hydra spies.

This is my main point of contention with his position. Who knows if Hydra (or another similar group, I guess, since they were supposedly just totally wiped out in Agents of SHIELD) has infiltrated any other organizations and is just salivating over the idea of having a team of powered individuals under their thumb to use as they see fit. And even if that isn't the case, I don't think it would take Tony long to realize that he was being used as just the sort of weapon he pointedly stopped manufacturing.

A lot of people here thought that was some sort of half-assed "localisation" effort when Age of Ultron came out. It's fucking terrible, yeah

xpost

It was never really connected. Jeph Loeb runs TV and I get the impression the MCU folks think he's and idiot

― Number None, Tuesday, May 10, 2016 7:39 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

They were initially very connected, at least in terms of the movies' impact on the shows. It is disheartening that there seems to be so little communication between the two camps at present, but there's nothing hugely contradictory between the movies and the tv shows at the moment, so I wouldn't think it'd be that hard to bring things back around. Tonight's SHIELD is supposed to follow on the events of Civil War so I guess we'll see how perfunctory that winds up being.

truly incredible michael j fox impression from english spider teen imo. like perfect

Finally saw this last night — the showing I tried last Thursday was sold out. I liked it fine. It was a bowl of my favorite cereal. Lots of marshmallow bits.

...I'm not sure why I'm not more enthused about it -- it got just about everything right. I think I'm just mad at myself for turning into my grandmother. ("Shhhh! My programs are coming on.")

i liked sad vision at the end playing sadly chess w himself. wld like a three-cam samily sitcom w he and SW

samily=family

It was largely S.H.I.E.L.D. that was compromised as well as their S.T.R.I.K.E. division and the Gary Standing senator. And S.H.I.E.L.D. is pretty much extinct now.

Besides...it was foreign government's insistence on oversight because civilian loss happened on *their* soil. 100+ governments signed cos they were tired of the Avengers (now pretty much rogue instead of overseen by S.H.I.E.L.D.) going into foreign land and causing civilian death. Considering their first foray overseas as a group was to squash a being they created, not so farfetched.

The U.N. didn't have significant compromise. An unaffiliated death gang dude stalked and murdered the real UN guy (not Hydra, just a rogue grieving civilian).

Captain doesn't even cite any fear of compromise in his reasoning. His reasoning was purely "what if they tell us to go somewhere we don't think we should go, or don't let us go where we should".

And...he is almost ready to sign *while Bucky is being interrogated*. He only backs out because he finds out Scarlet Witch is temporarily housebound.

The main catalyst in cementing his decision? A clumsy quote from his deceased ex-lover conveniently placed at a funeral (one of the more eye-rolly moments).

It's also worth noting that in the cinematic universe, Cappy has always reported to see, either in the US government, or S.H.I.E.L.D. (unlike Iron Man). This is really the first time he's been part of an unaffiliated team. Maybe he's still bitter about S.H.I.E.L.D. getting compromised but he never voices or implies that as a reason.

*see=someone

i liked sad vision at the end playing sadly chess w himself. wld like a three-cam samily sitcom w he and SW

― How Butch, I mean (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, May 10, 2016 8:20 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You should probably check out the current Vision comic, where he's living in domestic bliss with an android family of his creation.

i mean he was pretty much the "regulation hurts more than it helps, maaaaaaan" guy

well yeah the 'a' on his head doesn't stand for 'france' /trenchant

can't fathom how anybody wouldn't be (I apologize for this in advance) #teamironman after seeing this.

(insert list of humanitarian crises where the UN couldn't agree to intervene)

maybe the un is an incredibly effective global peacekeeper in the mcu

Was just thinking re: Nigeria. If they knew there was a bio weapon in there, and it was bad, and they knew the bad guys were coming to get it, then why be all sneaky and wait for the bad guys when they could just ether protect the bio weapon or take it somewhere else? I know they're called the Avengers, but they should get proactive. Interventioners?

What did happen with the bio MacGuffin, anyway?

They didn't know whatshisface from Winter Soldier was going for the bio weapon, they were initially protecting a bank, I think. Their goal was to capture him initially.

Black Widow caught it before it hit the ground before he blew himself up.

I guess Marvel introduced magic with Black Panther.

I think I missed this?

i get the vision/jarvis thing but must we really be stuck with ireland man

I really missed this.

I think I missed this?

IIRC, it was something like "We have a king and a Black Panther. I am both."

So super savvy Avengers were gathered en masse in Africa to ... capture Crossbones? Who they thought was there to ... rob a bank? They should introduce a super villain called Red Flag, whose power is to confuse people that his presence isn't at all conspicuous.

(Obv. Nigeria stuff didn't matter, just MacGuffin widgets in motion. More mysterious is how grouchy grudge-holder bad guy snuck into the same hit security room with public enemy number one to do his stuff without even the benefit of a disguise - don't they check IDs? - but whatevs.)

high security, not hit

They were there to capture Crossbones because they'd been tracking him for some time and the setting was incidental to the capture?

"We have a king and a Black Panther. I am both." - this is just distinguishing one title from another? Obv. the king would have passed on the mantle (which seemed to be just very high tech supersuit) some years ago.

I don't know if it's going to be a thing in the MCU but, in the comics, Black Panther gets his power from a panther god. I assume this is what's being referred to.

They may just go the 'very high tech supersuit' route.

Well yeah that's what I'm saying, they seemed to (if you knew what you're listening for) audibly pass up the opportunity to do anything of that sort.

OTOH, Thor is an actual god.

There's only one God, and he doesn't dress like that

http://i0.wp.com/www.towleroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/tom-hiddleston-high-rise-stills-08-435x580.jpg

TBF, they've pretty firmly steered the MCU perspective towards viewing Asgardians as an alien species.

what's the diff, really

I can sort of see why people thought this was uneven but I really respect the pacing and how they rationed the breadcrumbs so that while we were heading to Siberia I still hadn't figured out how they were going to set up the climactic fistfight from the trailers. I think if I had seen this on the small screen I would have done the plot math before the first act was over, but there was too much to look at. Sound design was terrific too. A lot of movies like this will give you subwoofer fatigue but I didn't get that. Noticed the sound design much more than the score (a little disappointing there because I thought the score in Winter Soldier was one of the highlights).

I loved the escape chase sequence where Bucky, T'Challa and Cap are all running at pace or faster than the moving traffic in the tunnel. That was really nicely done, I thought.

Tony's motivation was clearly all about his ego - when Black Widow pins him down for this he has no response, he just goes to the island prison to get more gratification because hey guys I figured it out how can I help? Then he makes the choice to completely fall for Zemo's plan and ends up having his ass handed to him. Well deserved.

I thought they did a decent job of making Cap's decision seem difficult even though the people encouraging him to sign - Ross and Stark - are both oblivious, facial-hair-grooming pricks who are completely full of themselves. Black Widow and War Machine are accustomed to working inside a sanctioned hierarchy, so that makes sense for them, but the Vision I couldn't figure out. I guess since he hasn't quite determined what the Mind Stone is capable of he has a lot of sympathy for the idea that there must be checks on power.

At the end of the movie Tony still hasn't figured out jack shit about where all his problems really come from, has he?

BTW, as far as I could tell, they needed to go to Siberia to complete Zemo's convoluted plan because he didn't have the tape. He started out working from rumors, then verbal corroboration from the subject, then the location of the evidence itself. I would be happy to see more Zemo scheming in a future one of these, no idea which of the forthcoming movies that might fit in, though.

Ant-Man and Spider-Man were so much fun in the battle royale. You can say they felt shoehorned in but I think it was critical to drop them in for that fight to make sure the whole thing wasn't all 140 minutes of dour, emo clanging and angry-looking eye slits

"Hi, I know you too, you're great."
"I thought that was a water truck."
"You guys know that really old movie, Empire Strikes Back?"

Post-credits scene was worth it too.

xxposts agree w/ most all of that. I still have issue with Captain America's side though because the noise was being made by foreign countries, who via government and civilian mouthpieces, were all loudly complaining about the interference by the Avengers on their soil. Whereas the Avengers/Winter Soldier conflicts took place on their own soil. In those aforementioned flicks, the fight was taken directly to them to where they had no choice but to interfere (lest millions get killed or enslaved in a matter of minutes.

Their foreign forays weren't so rosy. Yeah, they kind of did have an obligation to fix the fuckup Stark made that basically felled Segovia, but it was Stark's hubris that caused the threat to begin with. And they were in Africa on their own, unannounced, and iced a bunch of people in a building.

foreign countries all screaming "STOP HELPING!", Captain America's position = "naw bro, we'll still show up in your country when we deem necessary", then helps destroy an entire airport parking garage (and many aircraft) in Leipzig as well as putting civilian motorists in danger. Not saying he didn't wind up being *right* in the end, but foreign countries/civilians (who are not themselves guilty of genocide or oppressing their own peoples) do kinda have a right to say "hey uhh how about you not come over here until we say it's ok".

but that does kinda fly in the face of superheroes and how they do their own thing so fuck it, I'ma go watch Gunga Din

the thing I liked most about the battle royale was the different levels of seriousness going on all at the same time - black panther is dead-set on killing bucky, hawkeye and black widow are looking at it as one step up from a sparring match, iron man and cap are fighting for their principles, ant-man and spidey are just glad to be along for the ride... makes it so much more entertaining and layered than grimdark punchpunchpunch

the empire strikes back gag did feel a little bit too much like disney metacongratulating itself about owning so many huge pop-culture properties

Ant-Man's "whoa-ho-ho" when he becomes massive is still a fav moment. I mean he's a badass but even Stark asks him "who are you", he earns his stripes by kicking ass without being seen and finally gets to be a very visible, menacing badass. cool moment.

The maguffin was as stupid as maguffins always are but this was good

Like tbh this bucky craic is fuck off obv death penalty and it should never have had one movie based on it let alone a second.

Ant-Man going giant was the best thing they held back from in the previews

foreign countries all screaming "STOP HELPING!", Captain America's position = "naw bro, we'll still show up in your country when we deem necessary"

Dammit Cap, stop being so AMERICA all the time

Ant Man going giant made me sad that I'm not versed in the comics cos they all sensed what was coming and started murmuring seconds before, excited with child-like energy.

how I long for those .0003 seconds of joy

So I'm confused about something. The Zemo in this is just ... some guy? Because how in the world did he learn about the Winter Soldier, let alone the entire program, let alone the importance of that day, let alone how to build a giant electro-pulse bomb, let alone infiltrate, etc. He was this super-master criminal evil villain, yet they make him just an aggrieved guy.

Zemo was a colonel from an elite death gang in Sokovia in the movie, not just a regular civilian. they briefly mention it after they find out he framed Bucky by using facial prosthesis. it was one of those moments where if you went to take a leak, you'd miss.

Yeah imma just say that's shit weak stuff, again not that plot matters

Oh, a colonel? In a death squad? Ah grand so that's it all explained.

Why do they bother its a distraction when they try to justify this stuff. COMIC BOOK MOVIE FFS get the colours fight and make the zings snappy

Ah now, we don't call them colours any more.

One thing I had a huge problem with was Stank recruiting an untrained 15-year-old kid, based on some Youtube videos, to participate in a very serious fight where he knows one player intends to play cat's cradle with another guy's guts. But then I realized that that's exactly the sort of thing Tony "Ultron? What Could Go Wrong?" Stark would do.

Yeah, what if Spider-man turned out to be an incompetent jerk?

Tony Stark wouldn't have done that for just any kid - he had to check that Peter was completely starstruck by him first.

Xxxpost they literally devoted less time to explaining it than you've spent batching about it.

*bitching

At deems

There was a one-off "well, all the shield/hydra files were leaked to the world by you people and I decoded the right encrypted ones to fuck with you" statement

One assumes that since Stark had devoted the time and resources to sussing out Spider-Man's identity, he'd also spent some time secretly assessing his fitness for a mission of this sort. While still, yes, being Stark and throwing an untrained kid into a totally dangerous situation.

Meh to that. I'm a lot cheaper per minute and the point of message boards is bitch. Three hundred million worth of screen time was spent on plot points that made no sense that nobody cared about. It's OK it was a good brawler regardless.

I thought about that, like is anyone gonna call out Stark for bringing a stretch pants kid to an armor engagement with Spetsnaz and SOF guys (and the fucking Mind Stone) but, yeah, Cap brought a twenty something who has PTSD. Same same on that front.

This movie's main character arc is RDJ playing a guy who is tragically incapable of working on his narcissistic issues. Cap's little epilogue missive (on paper! What old man still writes paper ass letters) and dropping the shield- is all about trying to be the example, to a person he values a great deal, but won't ever listen.

happy that Steve gets the high ground, his friend back, and the girl at the end and Stark gets called Stank and has to live with being a jerk

Spiderling

So my prediction is that Zemo comes back for the Ant Man sequel. I can't figure another number in the queue that provides a likely venue for terrestrial / mortal / non-cosmic conspiracy business.

I look at almost all these stories (in fact, I look at almost all stories) through the lens of individuals versus the institutions they serve. In my civil servant dreams, I envy Cap's latitude in being able to choose to operate as a truly stateless badass. I have no idea how he pays for his lodging, meals and incidentals, but clearly he has Bourne Identity cash and various passports somewhere, perhaps socked away inside his incognito ballcap. Anyway.

Stark IS the institution he works for - all the infrastructure of the Avengers post-S.H.I.E.L.D. is because of his billionaire largesse - so he's giving up nothing by signing the accords, in fact, he's probably saving money by doing so. God he's such a douche in this movie. RDJ does an excellent job selling it.

there's a 25 minute short film waiting to be made where Cap "loses" his ballcap and Michael Pena's character "finds" it, and realizes there's all these velcro pockets full of fake IDs and international currency, and then there's some kind of hilarious chase where Cap just has a hell of a time catching up to Pena, who then realizes who is after him and why, and then they reconcile and decide "this never happened, we were never here" just as some disaster is happening and they team up to save hundreds of civilians from being drowned in the Canarsie tunnel.

"You're no chicken. Where you from?"
"The Bronx!"
"Brooklyn."
IT WRITES ITSELF

oh and how did I forget this - best line of the film by far, but it comes in the middle of so much other awesome stuff -

"that thing doesn't obey any of the laws of physics at all!"

I may be paraphrasing

vibranium is pretty amazing stuff

Paper Ass Letter pretty underrated Beatle tune

I loved the escape chase sequence where Bucky, T'Challa and Cap are all running at pace or faster than the moving traffic in the tunnel. That was really nicely done, I thought.
>
I thought that was one point where the CGI was noticeable. Looked a bit clumsy to me. Will probably stand out even more in years to come.

I haven't seen anybody mention the Easter Eggs in the film. The mid crediuts scene with Cappy and the Black panther and the post credits thing which is probably a toy tie in and defintely more of a Spidey trailer.
But then maybe everybody already knows taht marvel films tend to have those extra bits, I was the only person in my cinema to hang around for the Spidey one though.

I did wonder who wound up having to pay for the airport nad the tunnel in Czech republic ( think that's where it was but couldn't see why Buckky then wound up in Berlin. Is that more of a UN base or something?).
THought it interesting that both this and superman v batman had a theme of collateral damage. Then both went on to create a lot more. Though I guess there is lasting personal collateral damage in that scene.

Was this an almost direct retelling of teh Civil War story from, is that, 10 years ago. Though recast as less racist or speciesist since not about mutants. Or has there been a print revisiting of that idea that this is based on?
I do see above taht this is different to what the original storyline for the Captain America film that became this was going to be.
Did enjoy the spectacle though.

Also has ant-man/giantman not got more direct control over his size. I was a little surprised that he didn't manipulate the change more as a combat technique. Might have got him out of some of the later stuff. But there you go, I guess he hasn't used the large size overmuch so might not be thinking about things in the heat of battle.

I'd say the studio paid for the airport runway etc

Ant-Man clearly says he isn't totally in control of the being giant thing yet

I loved the idea of them running faster than traffic, that's the kind of ludicrous scene that comic book movies should be filled with. I agree that it looked a bit clumsy, though.

Bucky hid in Bucharest, Rumania. I'm not sure they went to Berlin? The UN thing was in Vienna and the airport was in Leipzig, and it's all very confusing all of a sudden and I might be wrong.

This deserves an Oscar-nomination for Best Adaptation, btw. The difficulty to make all these disparate plotpoints fit together is way higher than boring pap like Brooklyn that was nominated this year. From a purely technical standpoint, it was a marvel. I don't much care for well written films, though, and I was kinda disappointed by the film. Not quite enough charm and grace, a bit too much pompousness. Best Marvel is still the one with the talking raccoon.

did someone here mention that chase sequence being a goofy visual joke, where the cameras themselves can't keep up with Bucky/Panther/Cap etc?. might have been a review i read

The location for the scene where the motor convoy arrives is written across the screen as Berlin. I don't know what the logistics are.

I heard Ant-man say this was something he'd been working on in his lab. But the size thing was mainly if he was a different size to what his opponents were expecting at that moment it woulmd have been enough to screw up their tactics. Can't remember what his size control works on. Is it a button he needs to press?

I thought the chase was fantastic, genuinely had to remember to breathe during it.

Had completely forgotten that Stark had his heart fixed at the end of IM3 so that the reactor is only a reactor now.

Yeah only remembered that afterwards.

The rhythm of the chase sequence was pretty good I just thought they way they looked when they ran was a bit strange looking.

Then wondered if it was Stark, the local government or who that was going to have to pay for extensive repair to the structure of the tunnel once they were through.
Also had me thinking that at one point in the 70s or 80s Spidey had to come up with a time sensitive webbing so taht there weren't great masses of used web all over whatever they call New York in that series. Think it's supposed to melt aftera couple of hours or something.
But superhero destruction was a real problem in the universe. & as shown in Lagos not just a 1st world one.

Actually can't think of a moneyed source that would pick up on damage caused by Captain America if he's on the outs with Stark. So is this what local tax dollars or whatever currency then needs to be diverted to instead of where it should have been in the council budget.
Do wonder how sound a tunnel is going to be if part of it's support structure has been knocked out. Or whatever structural damage was caused during this fight sequence. Would probably be a big con against govts calling international rescue or the Avengers or whoever. BUt maybe the idea of a visceral action film has been about the continual now instead of the aftermath. & the recent idea is to try to keep it real? Seems to be a them in both this and teh batman/superman not sure about elsewhere.

Probably need to watch the film again anyway.

pretty sure they call it "new york" btw. forest hills, queens is a real place.

That's one of Marvel's big things, that it's not glittering Metropolis or cloud-scudded Gotham, it's New York (which has a slight magical sheen anyway to a lot of their audience a) because it's where Marvel happens and b) anyway)

thought this was ok. disappointed that they still haven't pulled the trigger on miles morales - don't get what they're waiting for.

they haven't had Spider-Man at all until this movie. when could they have done Miles Morales?

there was some dumb argument about whether Sony has the rights to Spider-Man or just Peter Parker as Spider-Man

also people who think Sony would reboot using Miles instead of Peter yet again

This was solid, better than AoU.

Its international total has hit $645 million, making “Civil War” the fourth-highest -grossing superhero movie of all time behind “Avengers: Age of Ultron” ($946 million), “The Avengers” ($895 million) and “Iron Man 3” ($806 million).

apparently if you pile all 13 Marvel Studios pictures together they've now made over $10B

Yet somehow Disney didn't meet quarterly expectations. How?! These, Pixar, Star Wars ...

Expectations were too high, though not by much, and the in-house toy and cable parts of the business didn't do as well.

the bar for success is generally set right above attainable levels when shareholders are involved

So it's already beat Superman v. Batman's total worldwide gross, and it's just about caught up to SvB's total US gross after nine days in release. Nice.

disney owns espn, which until recently was a huge profit driver for them, about $15 billion a year iirc. only not cord cutting has become normalized to have an impact and espn's revenues have started to drop, right when they paid ridiculous af sums for various tv rights. disney's media properties (networks) have been responsible for 50% of their profits and while abc and disney channel and abc family and a&e are nice, espn is obv the rainmaker there. or was. when the thing that was responsible for around 50% of yr profits suddenly might start losing money it's a problem.

This doesn't really work as a standalone film does it? I've seen (I think) every single one of the preceding movies, and have a fair working knowledge of most of the characters from the comics, but I was scratching my head trying to figure out what was going on in parts. If I'd watched all the other films last week I would've been fine. Also they weren't very good at deliniating the different sides or making the stakes that clear or compelling, also they chickened out of giving Cap and Iron Man a genuine and convincing ideological greivance really, basically everyone was being big babies (maybe the point?)

BUT it was amazingly enjoyable nontheless, and the big fight scene was, I thought, INCREDIBLE. The most accurate screen recreation of a comic book superhero fight in both spirit and visuals I've seen. And the new Spidey is totally on the money and totally stole the show. Blows the Maguire and Garfield versions out of the water with a mere cameo. Black Panther was great as well.

What do you reckon you were missing beyond "These cities got trashed"?

The fact that nobody made an argument that the world sould havd fucking ended each time without intervention was kind of a plot canyon nest pas

But again, plot, i mean it's irrelevant however much ppl try to expound on thematic strengths or intricacy and consistency of internal motivations and does it speak to our times these movies work because the gorgeous ppl in the tight shiny outfits did cool things while saying cool things.