I will keep doing, but not worth it! The 2016 Presidential Primary Voting Thread

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.2517261.1454419423!%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Farticle_400%2Floser3n-3-web.jpg&f=1

would be nice to have an election thread to look at at work without Buttload, Shit, Fuck or Assholes big and bold at top

someone on my facebook:

"I'm so glad the Iowa Republicans have broken with the establishment to get behind a Princeton man married to a Goldman Sachs executive who both worked for George W. Bush."

tbf Dubya hates him

thread title was just a suggestion from previous thread, I suppose we can delete this and start another one if it's really a problem...?

"I'm so glad the Iowa Republicans have broken with the establishment to get behind a Princeton man married to a Goldman Sachs executive who both worked for George W. Bush."

Okay, that's pretty funny.

tbf Dubya hates him

Everybody does, which is why it's awesome. I can't decide which prospect brings me more hope and joy: the Republican Party having to host a convention that anoints Cruz (whom almost everyone hates), or one that anoints Trump (whom almost no one trusts)? Both offer delicious schadenpossibilities.

I'm not yet seriously thinking about a Rubiocentric nominating convention. I suspect it would be a dull near-repeat of McCain's and Romney's, but with the added fun of the hard right mouth-frothers sitting out because they didn't get what they want (AGAIN).

peace to all but i agree, can we get the thread title into more PG13 territory

how about quoting the donald:

I will keep doing, but not worth it!

ok fine

can some admin delete this thread plz

it feels like a clinton/rubio showdown is most likely, as has been predicted for months, although i wouldn't be shocked to see cruz or trump in there as well. rubio seems most electable against clinton because it would take advantage of the low enthusiasm on the dem side after (if?) bernie gets knocked out. it's easier to rile up the dem voters if the opposition is trump or cruz. but rubio is able to hide his assholeism behind a veneer of innocence and boredom. it's harder to take the kind of guy who handsomely smiles and knows how to speak in complete sentences and do whatever ALEC tells him to do and build him up into the apocalyptic opponent that's necessary to convince the other half of the country to roll out of bed and vote for another clinton

admins can just retitle the thread!

oh, right

well I'm fine with whatever as long as we keep the "The 2016 Presidential Primary Voting Thread" part

Bahaha whoops give me a sec, editing on phone

loool

ffs

Love you jjj

agree w/Karl generally - Sanders is gonna win NH and then flame out on Super Tuesday, on the GOP side it's harder to tell how long things are going to drag on since it seems like absolutely no one is willing to drop out as long as theirs still money rolling in, but agree that from a general election standpoint the conventional wisdom re: the math of a rubio/clinton face-off is probably the most attractive to the GOP.

xxp

It's worth noting that if we're just editing the title, it will still show up as "Fuck All Shit, etc" in our bookmarks.

at least until the cache resets

otoh this title is wonderful and I don't want to lose it

can we rename every thread on ILE to this

Sanders will "flame out" on March 1, huh? it could happen ... but maybe not

Super Tuesday slate:

Alabama
Arkansas
Colorado caucus
Georgia
Massachusetts
Minnesota caucus
Oklahoma
Tennessee
Texas
Vermont
Virginia

http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2016-presidential-primary-schedule-calendar/

how many of those can Sanders plausibly 'do well in' besides VT and MA? MN, VA...?

i had to google rubio to remember what he looked like.

http://www.puppetsandprops.com/Images/Eddie2.jpg

maybe CO? lots of college stoner types, but a lot of libertarian streaks in the state.

really wish my state had a serious Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate

how was this thread title not a variation on "i feel like obama does the national debt on purpose"

^

i'm gonna start a new thread since this bookmark has all the potty words in it still

man, rubio is a child. hillary could eat him for breakfast and still have room for brunch.

Sanders will "flame out" on March 1, huh? it could happen ... but maybe not

I know everyone's gotten into the habit of saying this election is not like any other prior primary, but that's really only true on the GOP side. On the Dem side things are adhering to a very familiar pattern that's held true for decades (Obama being the exception, for rather obvious reasons). I don't see anything in Sanders' campaign to suggest his run is structurally different from his predecessors.

xp

I predict Sanders will be competitive in all of those states except mmmmmmaybe Oklahoma; I also predict that the states where he has the best chance for an outright win besides VT and MN are CO and VA. I think, based on the number of establishment Democrats I know in this state as well as the number of people who are dissatisfied with Sanders; proposals not having the level of concrete detail to them they want in order to see if they are feasible, that MA is going to be much more competitive than someone outside of New England would think. It's easy to think of the states up here as being a single entity since most of them are the size of a postage stamp but things that would fly in NH/VT/ME are not necessarily going to play well in MA/CT/RI and vice versa; in MA, Sanders has faced some amount of pushback for being an unrealistic VT hippie who hasn't had to represent an appreciably large number of heterogeneous people throughout his entire campaign.

lmao old lunch xps

I don't think Bern is being nominated either, but NY isn't until April 19, and i don't see him dropping out before then.

https://media.giphy.com/media/AJmXWUFsZgnPW/giphy.gif

well i'll be, good analysis from matt yglesias

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/2/10892724/bernie-sanders-wake-up-call

Democratic leaders aren't as smart as they think

The Clinton campaign's strategy will, of course, be second-guessed as stumbling frontrunners always are. But the larger problem is the way that party as a whole — elected officials, operatives, leaders of allied interest groups, major donors, greybeard elder statespersons, etc. — decided to cajole all viable non-Clinton candidates out of the race. This had the effect of making a Clinton victory much more likely than it would have been in a scenario when she was facing off against Elizabeth Warren, Joe Biden, and Deval Patrick. But it also means that the only alternative to Clinton is a candidate the party leaders don't regard as viable.

Trying to coordinate your efforts to prevent something crazy from happening is smart — otherwise you might wind up with Donald Trump. But trying to foreclose any kind of meaningful contact with the voters or debate about party priorities, strategy, and direction was arrogant and based on a level of self-confidence about Democratic leaders' political judgment that does not seem borne out by the evidence. This is a party that has no viable plan for winning the House of Representatives, that's been pushed to a historic low point in terms of state legislative seats, and that somehow lost the governor mansions in New Jersey, Maryland, Massachusetts, and Illinois.

It's a party, in other words, that was clearly in need of some dialogue, debate, and contestation over what went wrong and how to fix it. But instead of encouraging such a dialogue, the party tried to cut it off. That leaves them with Sanders's Political Revolution theory. It doesn't seem very plausible to me, but at least it's something.

so gonna happen...

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Images/popup/2015/4/clinton.jpg

Iowa poll a year ago

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/694534028775530496

huh, i didn't see that shaun king had endorsed sanders. that seems like it could mean something

ok lol at the thread title. my suggestion was meant in jest ftr.

Super Tuesday is basically intended to arrest any New England liberals getting too far along in the process. so yeah not so surprising that it looks like a rough day for sanders. massachusetts, minnesota, colorado and lol vermont do all seem do-able though not without a fight in most. it's the next couple weeks after that where he could actually soak up some delegates, so long as he still looks like a real, fighting candidate:

MARCH 5 - Louisiana, Nebraska, Kansas
MARCH 6 - Maine
MARCH 8 - Mississippi, Michigan
MARCH 15 - Florida, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina, Ohio

as previously noted, i think the effective tie in iowa helps him more than hurts him in this regard, he just has to be able to shrug off a week or so of bad news. he has the money to keep campaigning, and since his mission is to force his issues into the conversation, he has every incentive to stay in and keep churning up delegates even in states he can't win. even if the national media basically tune him out, each state that he campaigns in extensively (ad buys, public appearances, etc.) is subject to an overton window shift of some kind. people whose first voting experience is voting for the democratic socialist are going to have to see the range of possibilities a little differently.

i know i sound like a broken record on these themes, but i really think this is the more interesting story in this election, since the horse-race stuff (on the dem side) is a foregone conclusion bar the details. may i remind you that a self-proclaimed socialist just tied in a nominating contest in the corn-fed heartland of america! saying "oh yeah sure but iowa is full of white liberals" is leaving out too much detail imho - exactly what does "liberal" mean, what kind of things are on the table... i mean generally "liberal" in america has come to mean a pretty short list of MOR civil-rights positions and not being aligned with the real corporate scumbags, not necessarily "fuck it, let's just go back to taxing the rich to pay for needed services and an expanded welfare state." it could be that some core things are shifting under the radar. i dunno. this isn't really fully formulated, sorry.

("week or so of bad news" referring to super tuesday results, not iowa)

feel like it's important to bear in mind that at some point the math of "[candidate] needs to win x number of delegates in upcoming contests to win the nomination" becomes more and more critical. And once one candidate starts to outpace the others and the likelihood of the remaining candidates racking up the necessary number of delegates in the remaining contests diminishes, things start to look like a foregone conclusion pretty quick.

also lol: http://www.sfgate.com/news/local/politics/article/Loser-com-now-redirects-to-Wikipedia-page-of-6800933.php

another critical factor that hasn't yet gotten the thinkpiece it deserves:

chants of "BER-NIE! BER-NIE! BER-NIE! BER-NIE!" are inherently more exciting and easier to join than "HIL-LA-RY! HIL-LA-RY!" or "CLIN-TON! CLIN-TON!"

xpost Juvenile and yet so beautiful.

who is Shaun King?

Retired surgeon Ben Carson, who was polling strong a few months ago, headed for home to Florida after finishing in fourth place with 9 percent of the vote. In a bizarre message, his campaign said he wasn’t suspending his campaign but just that “Dr. Carson needs to go home and get a fresh set of clothes.”

xp: Civil rights guy who sorta came to prominence in the wake of the Michael Brown shooting.

ok, i read a NYT Mag profile of him about a year ago but forgot his name.

Lindsey Lindskog
‏@lollipopxlindz
Did @HillaryClinton just take notes on everything @BernieSanders has been saying, paraphrase it, and pass it off as her speech? #IowaCaucus

Matt Taibbi
‏@mtaibbi
Yes. It's the politics version of the movie "Species."

Shaun King is an activist loosely affiliated with Black Lives Matters who has started becoming famous for being light-skinned enough that some of his detractors have claimed he's pulling a Rachel Dolezal, raising funds for charities aimed at improving the lives of black people that seem to dissipate after the fundraising effort completes and getting denounced by other Black Lives Matters activists on Twitter.

http://i.imgur.com/e2GdYPW.png

luv 2 gamble

lmao predictorbros are so panicky

if it turns out that yes, one early narrow loss is enough to deflate or derail the whole trump phenomenon it'll be so weird. strangely encouraging and disheartening at once

it's Short Attention Span Punditry

i think part of trump's brand is his power and losing to ted cruz even if it's not a surprise makes him look vulnerable, which is probably the worst thing he can appear to be.

I could almost see a butthurt Trump just taking his ball and going home.

"I thought you wanted me to be president, but I guess you're all just a bunch of losers. Maybe I'll sue you. I dunno."

I think he had more on the line than anyone with Iowa since his whole campaign narrative was 'everyone loves me, I'm number one, look at the polls' etc etc

one early narrow loss is enough to deflate or derail the whole trump phenomenon it'll be so weird.

he seems well positioned to win NH, unless he's committed the same predictable error there as he did in Iowa (ie hoping his media exposure will make up for not having a ground game that turns out actual votes). If he happens to lose NH it's gonna get pretty ugly for him.

xp

I could almost see a butthurt Trump just taking his ball and going home.

― Chortles And Guffaws (Old Lunch)

interesting mixed metaphor

Trump gives every indication of having no respect or interest in the actual mechanics of getting voters to the polls - retail politics, state-level infrastructure, etc. It isn't just about polls and exposure, there's this whole other more grueling, more mechanical process that converts that other stuff into actual votes. If he doesn't get that, he's fucked.

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/PZYAvZoBgSwUF.mEZIYu9Q--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9Mzc3O2lsPXBsYW5lO3B4b2ZmPTUwO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTY3MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/afp.com/Part-GTY-507942236-1-1-1.jpg

Why is she licking his hand?

should I make a dirty joke

btw NYT said last week that Bill has lost the Old Magic on the stump -- meandering, boring, wheezy

interesting that Hillary took Des Moines, figured Sanders would've had the advantage there

I liked how that NYT piece attributed his lack of dynamism to his veganism

the 2012 convention speech excepted, WJC has been meandering, boring, loud, and self-pitying for years

if trump loses he's still prob not going anywhere as a populist political figure. he'd actually be in a pretty good spot to start a right-wing media business and god knows he loves putting his name on shit.

i.e. a variety show

Hillary should use something from Tusk for her theme song. "I Know I'm Not Wrong" maybe.

I was gonna say "Walk a Thin Line"

Bill has lost the Old Magic on the stump

He's just not as motivated as he was when it was his own campaign. Put him in front of a convention crowd and big television audience and he'll be Elvis again.

from goole's quote: "the party as a whole... decided to cajole all viable non-Clinton candidates out of the race. This had the effect of making a Clinton victory much more likely than it would have been in a scenario when she was facing off against Elizabeth Warren, Joe Biden, and Deval Patrick."

So are we now supposed to take it as given that Warren, Biden, and Patrick were "cajoled" out of the race (vs. making their own choices for their own reasons)? Isn't that kind of like saying the 1961 Cubs woulda won the World Series, if only they'd signed Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, and Yogi Berra? FWIW Clinton might also be less likely to defeat Zombie Gandhi as well.

interesting that Hillary took Des Moines, figured Sanders would've had the advantage there

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, February 2, 2016 12:38 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

DSM is the Big City but apart from Drake and idk DMACC there aren't any colleges there, just saying

i need to dig up a good results map

yeah I 100% certain that neither Warren nor Patrick were interested in running for President

i assume anyone over the level of County Assessor wants to run for president; but it didn't take much "cajoling " to not want to run for president against HRC

but yeah MY looks like he's trading on his status as a clued in DC journo to tell us something about the pre-pre-primary stage there

MR PRESIDENT WHAT

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/scott-brown-endorsing-trump-new-hampshire

hats off to Karl for this thread title, it is wonderful lols

so much awkward kissing in iowa...

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_550_400_noupscale/55df6f5b1d00002f001461f6.jpeg

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

the Scott Brown clown show continues

take it to the "show me some men who look like old lesbians" thread

xp

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_550_400_noupscale/55df4d8a1d00006e00146198.jpeg

Chicken Lady Gives *BAWK*ward Fist-Bump

rare shot of fiorina's feared right hook

I hope there was loads of chicken guts on that glove.

why does Carly Fiorina think she can be President

money and power make a person delusional

Jeb Spends $2,884 Per Iowa Vote

http://www.weeklystandard.com/jeb-spends-2884-per-iowa-vote/article/2000869

Hillary should use something from Tusk for her theme song. "I Know I'm Not Wrong" maybe.

or "Not That Funny"

nah

"What Makes You Think You're the One" or "Save Me A Place"

Jeb Spends $2,884 Per Iowa Vote

Was wondering earlier how many election cycles it's going to take for all these bajillionaire Super-PAC funders to realize that politicians are an absolutely terrible investment

their ROI would be the same if they just put all their money in a pile and set fire to it

He's just not as motivated as he was when it was his own campaign

seemed p motivated when trashing Obama eight years ago

oh is that where you learned it from

billionaires spend very little money on politics in the grand scheme of things. ads themselves are often the terrible investment for politicans, esp ones everyone already knows - but why not throw a couple million dollars at jeb bush if it's pocket change to you? you might get to visit the white house.

idk they seem pretty unhappy with what they're getting from Jeb, for example. Unhappy enough to complain to the press.

yeah it's like yelp reviews for them though

i wonder if de blasio's presence is what pushed clinton over the finish line in iowa?!

“We are fine with him here, but we would have been fine without him being here,” a grateful Clinton campaign source told the Wall Street Journal.

why would Iowans care about De Blasio?

On Sunday afternoon, Judy Sherman, a 69-year-old retired Iowa voter, opened the door to Mr. de Blasio before quickly closing it.

“I like your shirt, though,” Mr. de Blasio said as Ms. Sherman, wearing a University of Iowa T-shirt, closed the door on him.

Ms. Sherman later told reporters “I did not know and I did not care” that he was mayor of New York. She said she was tired of political ads and didn’t plan to vote for Mrs. Clinton so she had nothing to talk to the mayor about.

i'm pretty sure this is self aware? but

https://twitter.com/andylevy/status/694359519867080706
have trump supporters starting calling it the iowa cuckus yet
9:19 PM - 1 Feb 2016

https://twitter.com/Nero/status/694366969265573888
Iowa cuckus, more like
9:49 PM - 1 Feb 2016

oh is that where you learned it from

yeah we have the same objections to O, you know me like a book

(also i voted for BHO in the NY primary in '08 to my everlasting shame)

you can type "Obama" and remain pure

xxxpost when I lived in Iowa City there were tons of people from NYC there constantly complaining that they couldn't find good bagels or sushi. It was not a good look.

i am not interested in being pure or even being able to fake it.

you know me like a book

not hard, every page is the same

you know me like Klaus.

burn after reading *clink*

like a blank condolences book for you to fill with posthumous diatribes

@basedmattforney
My analysis of Microsoft sabotaging the Iowa GOP vote is now up at @ReturnOfKings: returnofkings.com/79354/did-micr… #MicrosoftRubioFraud

oic

i have to admit i was hoping the shitlords would not take this quietly, that's the stuff

lollllll

at least go with #RubioOnRails or something

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/donald-trump-is-the-most-dangerous-man-in-the-world-a-1075060.html

more debates in pipeline?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/02/02/the-battle-between-clinton-and-sanders-is-about-to-get-a-lot-more-intense/

http://cdn1.spiegel.de/images/image-950078-thumbflex-qiov-950078.jpg

oh the Clintonians are gonna bring out more brass knuckles than in '08, i have no doubt

the subheadings from that spiegel article:

Trump Wants A Ruthless America
Desire for a Strong Man at the Top
No Longer the Laughing Stock
Fascist Characteristics
Inflaming Tensions
'It's a Miracle Trump Didn't Invent the Selfie'
The Dark Side of Trump's Narcissism
A Core Element of Racism
Goading and Ridicule
What To Expect from a President Trump
An Odd Worldview
Is There any Stopping Trump?
Is the Tide Turning in Trump's Favor?
Tackling Clinton
A Threat to World Peace

maybe CO? lots of college stoner types, but a lot of libertarian streaks in the state.

― global tetrahedron, Tuesday, February 2, 2016 10:34 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Also a ton of Latinos, a group Clinton leads by something like 20-30 points depending on the poll. Based on this, I'd actually be pretty surprised for Sanders to win Colorado. 20% of the total population is Hispanic, and I'd guess that percentage is higher for Democratic primary voters.

clinton is not going to continue to hold anything near that sort of led in those demographics, although the head start she's got is going to be difficult to overcome

Sanders' deficit with minority voters is gonna hurt him a lot in crucial states where these are a significant chunk of Dem primary voters - SC, NV, CO, etc. So even if he splits the white vote 50/50 with Hillary, he loses.

@k3vin k I think the race will tighten a little, but I honestly don't see Sanders taking large chunks of Hillary's support among African-Americans and Latinos. I don't think his campaign and his messaging are built for that.

Also, re: my original post, there are obviously college stoners of all races, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I just wanted to make the point that Colorado isn't all white ski bums and hippies who work in Boulder hemp shops.

Restorative justice and emancipation for marginalized groups can and should accompany redistributive and universalist economic agendas. If Bernie can't manage to incorporate specific civil rights issues into his platform then he's more of an ideologue than I would've guessed.

xp

For example, this poll from a couple of weeks ago shows that African Americans and Latinos are the one area where Clinton has actually been gaining strength. Now there's a lot to argue about within that poll, first and foremost the stuffing of multiple groups together under the banner African-American/Latino.

I guess my point is, if Bernie Sanders was going to make important inroads with these crucial groups in the Dem coalition, he would have already made important inroads with them. I don't see any evidence of it, and I see evidence to the contrary (the poll above, Clinton's SC polling)

xp: Sanders definitely has them as part of his platform but in the times I've seen him speak and certainly in the soundbites that are his campaign ads, he's done a terrible job of connecting them (see his total bungling of the reparations issue, which he didn't even need to come out in favor of in order to handle it better than he actually handled it).

I honestly don't think Bernie's lack of traction with minority voters is particularly issue-driven - its more a question of exposure, ground-game, media buys, outreach efforts, that kind of thing. Like, is he blanketing univision with ads and endorsements, does he have contacts with spanish-language media in the necessary markets? Clinton's got years of goodwill and exposure, Bernie's gotta make up a huge shortfall in a v short amount of time, it just isn't going to happen, no matter how many times he shows up on The Nightly Show with Killer Mike.

if Bernie Sanders was going to make important inroads with these crucial groups in the Dem coalition, he would have already made important inroads with them.

otm. he isn't gonna do this in 30 days.

i don't think a lot of people know bernie that well. not just minority voters.

i mean they know what he looks like and that he wants a revolution or whatever.

"is he the angry old white guy?"

i mean it was a long time ago but hillary was the first lady of the united states! for real.

kinda hard to believe now.

I am very interested in seeing what happens in Nevada and South Carolina as I think that's going to be an indicator of the actual level of Sanders' minority support

are you trying to tell me everyone on /r/berniesanders is white??????

did we poll hillary + bernie yet?

DJP otm

I voted "sitting in a tree" iirc

wasn't obama subject to similar misgivings about his ability to persuade non-white voters, before a certain point?

i guess krugman says it was iowa itself that convinced black voters as a group to get behind him

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/02/02/post-iowa-notes/?smid=fb-share

xp: Sanders definitely has them as part of his platform but in the times I've seen him speak and certainly in the soundbites that are his campaign ads, he's done a terrible job of connecting them (see his total bungling of the reparations issue, which he didn't even need to come out in favor of in order to handle it better than he actually handled it).

― its subtle brume (DJP), Tuesday, February 2, 2016 4:44 PM (17 minutes ago)

i was disappointed by bernie's reparations answer too but it was...candid? at the very least?

it would seem to me that, politically, after iowa/NH would be a good time to start emphasizing that part of his platform, as he starts to campaign in more diverse states

maybe - and that was because he carried the WHITE there. It was clear he wasn't Jesse Jackson (or Shirley Chisholm) 2.0.

xp

the WHITE vote duh

idk, maybe krugman's otm there, but i'd like to see some evidence to back that up. It sounds more like media CW to me than anything.

wow, krugman is really all in for hillary. kind of sad

Certainly taking a harder line on the corruption of our politics by big money is important — and no, giving some paid speeches doesn’t disqualify her from making that case. (Cue furious attack from the Bernie bros.)

He was in 2008 too!
xpost

Sanders should do some media buys featuring Hil & Bill pushing the crime bill... and maybe some clips from this speech:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/15/politics/bill-clinton-1994-crime-bill/

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--PEn-Kvwc--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/mmgrifg8rgxnnswy8wnk.jpg

Sanders should do some media buys featuring Hil & Bill pushing the crime bill

super-predators line is the obvious go to

sanders certainly has a lot at his disposal if he should choose to go down that road, and obviously i think bringing up bill's history is fair game. the demographics of iowa/NH meant he probably didn't need bring out the big guns yet, but at some point he's going to need to if he's going to try to give this a serious shot

he should go after Biil's big gun.

Sanders doesn't seem to have much appetite for the "politics of personal destruction", as they say. He gives every indication of having drank his own kool-aid as far as the broad appeal of his own policy proposals is concerned. But policy proposals alone are not what turns out votes.

if by "big gun" he means reminding voters about the Telecommunications Act, Commodity Futures Modernization Act, elimination of Glass-Steagall, welfare 'reform,' and Marc Rich, sure.

it does seem like all people remember about the 90s were that there were jobs and money flying around, but if you look at any of Bill Clinton's singular accomplishments the majority of 'em are pretty execrable. He could give a decent speech though.

also Alfred omitted Clinton's loosening of FDA regulations allowing drug companies to advertise, which you can definitely trace our current pill-addiction epidemic to, imho.

I am very interested in seeing what happens in Nevada and South Carolina as I think that's going to be an indicator of the actual level of Sanders' minority support

haven't looked at polls but I think Hillary will KO Bernie in South Carolina

i don't think a lot of people know bernie that well. not just minority voters.

― scott seward, Tuesday, February 2, 2016 4:48 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, this is interesting. i mean elsewhere i think we're all pretty much agreed that the hypothetical matchups showing clinton or sanders doing better or worse versus trump or cruz in the general election are basically meaningless, because most of the people answering haven't got strong opinions on most of the people being named, and would probably tell you so. so when we swing around to the dem primaries and specific groups sanders needs to do better with, i'm kinda willing to buy that he has some room and time to grow as he takes on individual states and throws down big ad buys and barnstorming and all that kind of stuff. not "win south carolina" room to grow - i mean come on.

nonetheless it is possible he could gain some. maybe some parts of his message connect while others fall flat, or this varies across the demographics he's trying to get on board. it would be nice to see some more detailed and precise polling of south carolina, which i suspect we shortly will. when the campaign first got rolling, sanders was polling at like 2%, 5% in south carolina. in august, the first or second time i started arguing with frederik b about this, sanders was up to 9%. he's now at 32.5%. that's still a horrible, crushing defeat vs. hillary - but it means he's bringing somebody on board. may in fact just be white south carolinian college students - i don't know. but he's been very steadily inching up there. be interesting to see how it looks once post-iowa polls start showing up.

lol I just looked at the polling. me otm

yeah welfare reform, NAFTA, DOMA/dont ask don't tell, the 94 crime bill, etc. plenty of great stuff there that could be targeted to different demographics xxxp

we're looking beyond SC, Chachi.

‏@DougHenwood
The Hillary-Bernie Olive Garden meme is just like real sexual harassment, says this extraordinary piece

People write this crap because the positive case for HRC is so weak.

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/02/bernie_bros_stop_this_meme_your_dumb_joke_about_hillarys_music_taste_isnt_funny_its_predictably_sexist/

damn, this thread is already HUUUUUUUUUGE

um

https://store.tedcruz.org/product/blacklisted-loving-it-poster/

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-W2VqgKeC-J0/VrDrIankK7I/AAAAAAAAeSg/YVO502nkoaA/s640/Screenshot%2B2016-02-02%2Bat%2B9.43.34%2BAM.png

person who wrote that is a music journalist, not a political writer, and the piece is ill-served by its headline xps

'It's a Miracle Trump Didn't Invent the Selfie'

When did Lefsetz start writing for der Spiegel?

David Brooks goin existential:

Donald Trump Isn’t Real

Haha omg

i don't think a lot of people know bernie that well. not just minority voters.

― scott seward, Tuesday, February 2, 2016 3:48 PM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mean they know what he looks like and that he wants a revolution or whatever.

― scott seward, Tuesday, February 2, 2016 3:48 PM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"is he the angry old white guy?"

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, February 2, 2016 3:49 PM (52 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

loool

I always forget that not everyone is like my friends/family, we're all hyper aware of politics and plugged in and mostly for Bernie

lolllll xp

Hologram Trump for veep

RE Heidi Cruz holy shit i wondered whatever happened to Tracy Flick

uh Tracy Flick is obviously Hillary

no way Flick would have ever gotten down w/ Bill

idk what a gym teacher has over Bill

this face though

http://gawker.com/rumor-heidi-cruz-is-so-repulsed-by-iowans-she-has-to-s-1756461603

haha yeah it's like that freeze-frame in the film

Arthur Chu has thoughts about Berniebros: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/02/i-like-bernie-sanders-his-supporters-not-so-much-berniebro?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

didn't even really consider this in the midst of the clown show. kind of interesting...

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/267937-cruz-victory-threatens-ethanols-power

ethanol subsidies are bullshit, if this somehow puts a chink in their armor as some kind of mandated policy at the federal level, that's a good thing imo

agreed

big soy needs to find a way to make a way to profit off of setting their shit on fire like the corn ppl

I've never heard that nickname for Christie.

That Salon piece is predictably idiotic. They must pay really well for the writers to be willing to attach their names to shit like that.

idk I figure mocking Hillary picking a Celene Dion song as her campaign song in '08 is pretty much the same as a music publicist sexually assaulting women

https://41.media.tumblr.com/c3fb86709469392e3cc353590a6aef92/tumblr_o1w291vBNF1s7e5k5o1_500.jpg

this fucking guy, 1994

to save time, not clicking any URL including "berniebro"

@pareene
oh god wait Hillary is Hubert H. Humphrey

hawkish, presents self as avatar of real (non-elite) Democratic base, anti-left but not conservative

Eugene McCarthybros

Yeah, except her pecker has never been inside anyone's pocket.

Chris Matthews had an interview with Hillary Rodham Clinton on the MSNBC channel of the electric teevee machine Tuesday afternoon that was flatly astounding. This is especially true if you remember Matthews' sorry history with the Clinton family, especially concerning HRC, against whom he was so hostile in 2008 that kindly Doc Maddow called him out on it on the air. Now, though, apparently, Matthews sees HRC as the only thing keeping the Battleship Potemkin from sailing up his driveway....

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41754/chris-matthews-hillary-clinton-interview/

"We agree on universal health-care."

Holy fuck, she said it would never happen just the other day.

Apparently Marco doesn't want *that* much change.

http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/02/02/plagiarism-marco-rubio-gets-called-out-for-stealing-president-obamas-speech-video/

And as noted by someone above, I thought it weird he seemed to be bragging about coming in third with "So this is the moment they said would never happen. For months, for months they told us we had no chance."

I listened to about 20 minutes of Bernie's speech to his supporters after Iowans caucused. I was impressed by how much his program and policy ideas sounded like Ralph Nader in 2000. I voted for Nader in 2000, btw.

rand paul is dropping out.

*withdraws all cash from ATM, buys bitcoins and platinum*

http://i3.cpcache.com/product_zoom/146955583/turn_on_tune_in_drop_out_tshirt.jpg?height=250&width=250&padToSquare=true

"We agree on universal health-care."

Holy fuck, she said it would never happen just the other day.

I imagine Hillary would claim we have universal health care, and that Bernie wants to unravel it all to replace it with something else.

From old thread: "the (Trump) campaign has spent at least $1.2 million on hats."

If my hair looked like that I'd probably prioritize hats as well.

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/should-millennials-get-over-bernie-sanders?intcid=mod-latest

Ugh how many shitty articles written by doofus amateur poli-sci know nothings is this primary going to generate?

Hillary's going pretty hard for the "we agree on the issues, we disagree on how to get them done, I'm the more practical one, and the important thing is to have the practical one to keep the republicans from ruining everything" formula. I can see why, but mannnn is it disingenuous, starting from "we agree on the issues."

"We agree on the issues, we just disagree on who should be the next president."

https://twitter.com/NateGoldman/status/694892933254901760

oof

New Hampshire responds to Trump's new loser status by not moving the needle at all:

http://www.uml.edu/docs/2-3%20TOPLINE%20-%20UMassLowell-7NEWS%20NH%20PRIMARY_tcm18-230574.pdf

Nm, think I got it [the caucus process] now.

― Hi! I'm twice-coloured! (Sund4r), Tuesday, February 2, 2016

if so, you are ahead of 99.5% of Americans.

Is that Goldman tweet an outtake from the British Office? This might be the first time I've felt a twinge of sympathy for a Bush.

I cannot imagine what would ever compromise my dignity to the extent that I would beg for people's applause.

January 29... Hil "agreeing" on healthcare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG7w3Oey3xs

FiveThirtyEight getting a little, ah, excitable.

natesilver:We keep getting into these loops and eddies about Trump and Rubio and everyone except Cruz, who won Iowa last night, and who’s a clear second in national polls (and could be in first nationally by tomorrow for all we know). Betting markets have Cruz’s nomination chances at just 13 percent, which seems way low.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-does-ted-cruz-go-from-here/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2016/02/02/ted-cruz-relaxes-by-singing-show-tunes-actually-but-which-ones/

Really hoping for "I Feel Pretty," personally.

From a must read NYROB article called "The Clinton System":

[D]irect payments to Hillary Clinton’s political campaigns, including for the Senate in 2000 and for the presidency in 2008 and now in 2016 ... had reached a total of $712.4 million as of September 30, 2015, the most recent figures compiled by Open Secrets. Four of the top five sources of these funds are major banks: Citigroup Inc, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase & Co, and Morgan Stanley....

yeah, saw that the other day. It will generally be ignored by "pragmatists" of course.

1994-vintage cruz is a dead ringer for bill hicks in that pic upthread

"on the lighter side"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWl6TLvlFEk

Linked off the always great Gin & Tacos: Disturbing documentary of a Trump rally.

http://www.vice.com/read/this-short-film-takes-you-inside-the-strange-world-of-donald-trump-supporters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP_J6gmJYiU

Sanders-Clinton debate on for tomorrow night

Sanders-Clinton debate on for tomorrow night

Did Queen Hill agree to some weekday night debates, one in her "home" of Brooklyn, or did Bern fold?

i don't microfollow such effluvia

what're the odds Rubio owns Christie's "boy in the bubble" nickname for him and starts playing the Simon song at rallies?

Rubio can't spell "Simon."

Torn, I love the current thread title but I also sort of want it to be called "Please clap"

lol, i had the same thought

"Please clap" has now become the saddest two-word utterance I've ever encountered.

yes to that title change

^^^ otm

you ppl are going to have a diff fave clowncar quote every week.

nothing will ever top 'please clap'. it is everything

This piece on Cruz is funny but worth reading for more than just the jokes.

There is no metric by which Ted Cruz is presidential. The only path to victory for a guy like Ted Cruz is through glitches in the electoral college only Cold War-era computer programmers and three borderline dead Ivy League professors with Henry Kissinger’s cell phone number know about. If Ted Cruz won the general election, his Iowa strategy suggests it’d be the most demoralizing win in modern presidential politics, like an A.I. beating you at Scrabble using words that haven’t been spoken since the 1920s.
Just imagine how creepy a win with Cruz’s methods would be. He’d win with an earth-shattering low cut of the popular vote. He’d win with 48 million votes because of some electoral college technicality in Nevada. He’d make bizarre computer-dictated moves like spending a month in Hawaii and never visiting the South. He’d be the first president to ever get assassinated for cheating.
He’s not cheating, of course, he’s just violating the spirit of presidential campaigning. He’s running a “the manual says I’m not cheating, and your mom says you can’t punch me again if I’m not cheating” strategy, and it’s just aggravating and phony as hell.

Was going to post the same request re: "please clap". New thread after New Hampshire?

i don't microfollow such effluvia

― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 3, 2016 11:39 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i love this post

What's so weird about Cruz is that when I first heard about him he sounded like the perfect on-paper GOP version of Obama-- Hispanic (name, at least), from the West but also a Harvard Law grad who argued at the SC, taking on the Texas establishment candidate favored by Rick Perry.

But then when you actually see him and hear him it's like what the fuck is wrong with this guy

how is there no video of the please clap?

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/jeb-bush-asks-n-h-audience-to-please-clap-615035459591

xp
Do you "like it" like it, or "thread title" like it?

Arthur Chu has thoughts about Berniebros: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/02/i-like-bernie-sanders-his-supporters-not-so-much-berniebro?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, February 2, 2016 11:39 PM (Yesterday)

arthur chu has a real solid grasp of the endless complexities of politics:

https://twitter.com/arthur_affect/status/669187312027217921

"Fraud! Fraud bad! Bad Cruz, commit fraud! See fraud run! Run, fraud, run!"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-cruz-idUSMTZSAPEC23ZBL9YS

here it is, his Roxie Hart moment.

independent run? this is the 'not fair' stuff we barely dared to dream of

wow, the video of "please clap" is somehow even more pathetic than i thought it would be

yeah he should just go home.

Jon Schwarz ‏@tinyrevolution
Ted Cruz's biggest backer is a billionaire who also supports the stockpiling of human urine:

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/28/black-americans-for-a-better-future-super-pac-100-funded-by-rich-white-guys/

Well, he also supports the election of human feces, so that follows.

Assuming he had a sliver of a chance at this point, I think "please clap" would've be Bush's Dean scream.

"would be"

http://s15.postimg.org/ll6mekut6/bsfa.jpg

he** yeah

"Please clap." is such an amazing sentence. Jeb Bush's presidential run is worth it just for that. Those millions of dollars weren't completely wasted.

The description of the "please clap" video makes it sound like a ho-hum filler ep of network TV:

Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush has a light-hearted moment with a crowd in Hanover, N.H.

Has his posture always been as slumped as it is in that video, or have I just never noticed before?

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Romney-Bush-MELINA-MARA-THE-WASHINGTON-POST-GETTY-IMAGES-e1421103055550.jpg

jeb! is a lumpy man

"please clap" should be the new keyboard cat

please understand

now I have "All I Wanna Do Is Make Love To You" stuck in my head ;_;

http://i.imgur.com/67GPaoY.jpg

“I’ll tell you when to laugh. That wasn’t a joke,” he half-joked.

https://vine.co/v/iJMWLXgY5Li

I noticed the woman behind him kinda doing a slow clap, but the guy half-hidden on the left is the one killin' me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdCYMvaUcrA

Based on the clip, I can alllllmost see "please clap" being an awkward attempt at humor if, like the woman behind Jeb!, there were members of the audience who seemed uncertain about when to begin their applause. But, considering his overall demeanor and the bullying he's tolerated and his general underperformance in this race, the horse is out of the barn on this one.

Yeah I imagine he in his mind is going for "Come on people you know you support this point! This is a good thing that you want." in a lighthearted way but coming from him it's impossible to reframe as anything but yet another example of a pathetic plea by a desperate man.

i'm sorry but i think jeb is funny and charming here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5J8RRXnUjk

good timing!

he really does have loser posture. he needs to unhunch those shoulders.

he needs some body work.

and santorum is out

now he'll have more time to do...whatever he does now

thinktank work.

Santorum earned $1.3 million in 2010 and the first half of 2011. The largest portion of his employment earnings—$332,000—came from his work as a consultant for industry interest groups, including Consol Energy and American Continental Group. Santorum also earned $395,414 in corporate director's fees and stock options from Universal Health Services, and $217,385 in income from the Ethics and Public Policy Center think tank.[87][133][134] In 2010 he was paid $23,000 by The Philadelphia Inquirer for his work as a freelance columnist.[87]

santorum-ejection.jpg

I'm buying a Jeb! T-shirt. Just letting y'all know.

to clap in

https://jeb2016.com/shop/lifestyle/guaca-bowle/?lang=en

Really sad how much effort Jeb!'s marketing department put into his merch, at the expense of actually having a viable candidate.

Dan Primack
‏@danprimack
Goldman Sachs CEO when asked if he's supporting Hillary Clinton: "I don't want to hurt anyone by giving them an endorsement."

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/694986391349039107

bernie starting to go in a little

are people intentionally refusing to use Lloyd Blankfein's name? I hear about Goldman Sachs constantly during political discussions but I just had to use google to find out his name

Would love to see @berniesanders unleash a series of salacious BLIND ITEMs.

i'm a bit surprised to see so many people i know approvingly sharing/liking this on facebook: http://www.pajiba.com/politics/an-allcaps-explosion-of-feelings-regarding-the-liberal-backlash-against-hillary-clinton.php

i mean, there are points in there about double standards that are obviously solid, and i'm assuming that's what people are thinking of when they share it. but those points are buried underneath stuff like:

FIRST AND FUCKING FOREMOST, COOL, YOU LIKE BERNIE'S WISHES AND DREAMS APPROACH TO POLITICS. "FREE COLLEGE FOR EVERYONE AND A GODDAMN PONY." YES, THAT SOUNDS FUCKING WONDERFUL BUT DO YOU THINK HILLARY COULD EVEN SAY THOSE WORDS WITHOUT FOX NEWS LITERALLY BURYING HER ALIVE IN TAMPONS AND CRUCIFIXES?

it's kind of funny to summarize sanders' politics as "free college for everyone and a goddamn pony" given that later on in the same rant she says the policies of clinton and sanders aren't "that fucking different". but putting that aside, does anyone really think that clinton would be advocating for free college if it weren't for the burden of being a woman? i'm pretty sure the main obstacle for clinton is that she wouldn't support free college until the idea was potentially acceptable to the establishment and she wouldn't get in trouble for saying it. that's an establishment politician problem, not a problem with gender (imo)

YOU DON'T LIKE THAT SHE PLAYS THE GAME? THAT SHE HAS TIES TO THE ESTABLISHMENT? FOR ONE THING, THAT'S HOW SHIT FUCKING GETS DONE. FOR THE OTHER THING, THE BIGGEST THING, A WOMAN DOESN'T GET THE FUCKING OPTION *NOT* TO PLAY THE GAME. NOT NOW. NOT YET. WE ALL WISH THINGS WERE DIFFERENT BUT THEY DON'T BECOME DIFFERENT WHILE WE'RE ATTACKING THE FUCKING PERSON WHO CAN MAKE THAT POSSIBLE.

oops, i guess i'm being a berniebro (GOD i hate that phrase already and it's like a week old) because i do think of her as an establishment politician. again, i don't think that her gender is preventing her from doing things differently. i'm pretty sure it's because she is the actual, verbatim definition of "establishment" that you find in the OED. and somehow elizabeth warren has managed not to play the game, get things done, be popular, and be a woman at the same time.

I have encountered literally NOBODY who supports Sanders for sexist reasons. It's possible to hate that she has been a victim of a right-wing conspiracy while also not liking her politics!

i'm sure that there are people that support sanders because he's a man, whether that's a conscious impulse or not. and there are great points to be made about double standards. it just seems odd that THIS is the essay addressing those things that somehow went viral and contains multitudes of self-deluded bullshit that smothers the valid points.

i guess it goes w/out saying that all of these righteous all-caps YEAH HILLARY ppl screaming about berniebros and "smartness" and "pragmatism" do not give a shit about all of the women in the middle east who have died b/c of the non-smart and non-pragmatic foreign policies that their awesome cool righteous kickass role model has voted for or lobbied for over the last 15 years

^^^ this

i wish i could've voted for Shirley Chisholm (who got a stamp last week) for prez

or Barbara Jordan

or Eleanor

x-post
Hey now that all those policies aren't popular (in retrospect), she doesn't support them. PROGRESS, YOU KNOW?

http://lolworthy.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/bernie-sanders-socialism-scare-gif.gif

HIL WILL MAKE THE TRAINS RUN ON TIME

I have encountered literally NOBODY who supports Sanders for sexist reasons

Idk man I am voting for Bernie but all those "Bernie is a true jazz intellectual, Hillary is a wide-eyed naïf who listens to Kenny G" memes scan as sexist to me

I like "blowharding" from that Jeb clip above. He could be in Clipse: "Been two years, like I was paddy wagon cruisin'/The streets was yours, you're blowhardin' and Ted Cruzin'."

http://i.imgur.com/kKNxxxx.gif

omg

wish that were seamless

Those memes are false-flag creations of Hillary's campaign.

JK

if you look to the left corner beyond the Cruzerciser, you can see Warren (Parallax) Beatty

i thought the music memes were dickish and unclever, but not sexual harassment which is a phrase that has some specific implications that should be protected.

Maybe I've been on ILX too long but the memes I saw felt like they were clowning themselves, with both Hillary and Bernie being assigned absurd words you would never actually see coming out of their mouth, like views on Radiohead. If there's a punch, it's that Bernie has elaborate nerdy positions on things and Hillary tries to say what's popular, which is, idk, kinda fair game for a political cartoon? Would 100% believe that some sharers are totally buying it in part b/c of sexism though, where it aligns with rock vs pop, masculine vs feminine, serious vs superficial.

But I also get a lot of 'Anarchists For Bernie Sanders' content so I'm used to seeing words put in his mouth where the gag is that he wouldn't say them (in that instance, to demonstrate that Bernie's not really radical because a real radical would say X).

haha yep, a lot of the "real" (lol) leftists over at, i don't know, counterpunch or something have no use for bernie

Cruz has a left side?

oh Bernie is no socialist (see OWS3 thread), and as Perrin tweeted (whoosh) you have to be a sociopath to want to be imperial manager. But y'know, fuck all the others.

Sanders activist friend on FB:

Bernie: "There's nothing wrong with being a moderate. Some of my best friends are moderates."

The memes seem particularly dumb bc Sanders' reaction to most pop culture questions is "who gives a shit why aren't you asking me about income inequality?"

YOU DON'T LIKE THAT SHE HAD CERTAIN NOW-UNACCEPTABLE POLICIES BACK IN THE '90S? HEY, I GET THAT THAT SHIT SEEMS LIKE LAST WEEK, BUT IT WAS ANOTHER GODDAMN WORLD ENTIRELY. I GET THAT WE ALL THINK WE'RE THE UNIVERSE'S BESTEST HUMANS BUT MOST OF THIS COUNTRY JUST LEARNED TRANS PEOPLE EXIST, LIKE, YESTERDAY. LET'S NOT PRETEND WE'VE ALL BEEN THE MOST INCLUSIVE PROGRESSIVE SUPER-COOL PEEPS FOR LIKE A THOUSAND YEARS NOW. PROGRESSIVE MEANS JUST THAT--PROGRESS. SHIT THAT WAS A BIG GODDAMN DEAL AT THE TIME IS NOT COOL NOW. PROGRESS. IT'S FUCKING SWELL.

lol yeah xp

can relate to the above because my dad, in the 1990s, occasionally used inaccurate and degrading language to refer to trans people, and my mom occasionally imprisoned more people than stalin

I like the argument that the worse you were in the 90s the more progressive you are now.

xpost i know right, how times change. millenials don't possess the capacity to recognize the changing of times, that's the problem basically.

Lol: http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/03/donald-trump-says-ted-cruz-stole-victory-in-iowa-caucuses/

Foreshadow of things to come

Thanks, Lloyd!

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/lloyd-blankfein-bernie-sanders-218689

I like the argument that the worse you were in the 90s the more progressive you are now.

― conditional random jepsen (seandalai),

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/bill_clinton_playing_videogames-2217.gif

Lol: http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/03/donald-trump-says-ted-cruz-stole-victory-in-iowa-caucuses/

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, February 3, 2016 6:48 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

feel like this could be the first step in trump's long-planned exit - blame the process, blame a conspiracy of enemies, shake head mightily, reluctantly bow out citing the impossibility against this vast machine etc. etc. but it could also just be trump being trump and he'll never quit until the last primary, who knows.

jeb please clap moment was intentionally funny idk what everyone is going on about

Trump: "I'm trying to be a little more understated and statesmanlike--some people like that, some people don't." Sounds like he's not too enthusiastic about it himself.

Idk man I am voting for Bernie but all those "Bernie is a true jazz intellectual, Hillary is a wide-eyed naïf who listens to Kenny G" memes scan as sexist to me

To me they are a repeat of the 2008 "Barack Obama is your new bicycle" / "Hillary is mom jeans" memes.

Those were based around Obama being the new hotness and Hillary being lame and basic.

🤔

For all the whining Trump's been doing today, he may have a legitimate grievance--sounds like Cruz (or "his people") knowingly told voters that Carson had dropped out when he/they knew that wasn't true.

It's so hard to choose sides when you want to see both these guys humbled and embarrassed.

That isn't electoral fraud.

Garden variety clown car dishonesty.

Maybe I've been on ILX too long but the memes I saw felt like they were clowning themselves, with both Hillary and Bernie being assigned absurd words you would never actually see coming out of their mouth, like views on Radiohead. If there's a punch, it's that Bernie has elaborate nerdy positions on things and Hillary tries to say what's popular, which is, idk, kinda fair game for a political cartoon? Would 100% believe that some sharers are totally buying it in part b/c of sexism though, where it aligns with rock vs pop, masculine vs feminine, serious vs superficial.

This was how I read them too but I may have been reading too far in.

Maybe I've been on ILX too long but the memes I saw felt like they were clowning themselves, with both Hillary and Bernie being assigned absurd words you would never actually see coming out of their mouth, like views on Radiohead. If there's a punch, it's that Bernie has elaborate nerdy positions on things and Hillary tries to say what's popular, which is, idk, kinda fair game for a political cartoon? Would 100% believe that some sharers are totally buying it in part b/c of sexism though, where it aligns with rock vs pop, masculine vs feminine, serious vs superficial.

But I also get a lot of 'Anarchists For Bernie Sanders' content so I'm used to seeing words put in his mouth where the gag is that he wouldn't say them (in that instance, to demonstrate that Bernie's not really radical because a real radical would say X).

― the thirteenth floorior (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 3 February 2016 22:38 (Yesterday) Permalink

I've been wrestling with the idea of writing a think piece along these lines but I just feel like it'd be splitting hairs and inviting arguments I'm sick of even though I've mostly avoided them so far

Anytime you (and I don't just mean you, RC, I mean "all of humanity") have an idea for a think piece, write it down on a piece of paper, burn it, and move on with your life.

Trump stage-managing his exit is literally the most foreseeable thing about this entire shitshow.

(with the possible exception of the Clinton machine/MSNBC Deanscreaming Bernie for as long as it takes)

Trump definitely sabotaging himself in Arkansas tonight:

http://i.imgur.com/HKfOC1A.png

http://i.imgur.com/B4WR4MK.png

Whenever friends tout Clinton's experience, I bring up dubious past Clinton positions/votes/statements, and those same friends who support her brush the criticisms aside, saying, oh, the times have changed and she's changed with them. When I point out that like him or not Sanders hasn't been swaying in the public opinion breeze that way she has, they really have nothing to say.

By the way, I was a little surprised (but not really) to learn that Clinton is still pro death penalty. Because of course she is.

I love this clip, a real guilty pleasure. This sassy insouciant side we rarely see except in private board rooms with Goldman Sachs investors:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VWbYF4460g

next debate question: "Would ya kill Snowden, Hil?"

Not very ethical. Starting to suspect Morbius isn't a real doctor.

Did anyone watch the NH "town hall" thing tonight? I caught just the last five minutes of Sanders's, with the charming-personal-question stuff. I thought he came off very nicely in that. I wonder how much of the impression of him as a grumpy grouch is his policies, and how much of it is that he does not mix in the stock private-family and/or "I met a recently laid-off grandmother last week in Poughkeepsie..." feel-your-pain stuff into his stump speech. I don't want him to do the latter, to be clear - I think a lot of his power comes from how clearly he feels his critique is too urgent to waste precious television minutes on fluff. Plus man would it be weird to be on stage unfurling family anecdotes day in and day out to tens of thousands of strangers. No thanks.

Lena Dunham used this "real results" shitphrase on behalf of Christine Quinn in the last NY mayoralty scrum. It must be in the HillChip that was implanted in 2012.

http://gawker.com/clinton-and-sanders-stand-side-by-side-screaming-into-1756952240

Those memes are literally never funny

Except the poop vs pee one

I know I'm soft, but I kind of feel bad for Bush in that clip (and I agree it's intentional humour) - he knows the game is up, no-one could watch him walk around that stage for 5 seconds and think he would ever be president.

He's half wondering, as he walks, whether it's a sin to pray that his father dies before finding out that his sons average a one-term president. He'd quite like to choke Marco Rubio to death, out in front of all the cameras.

But he always hates this part of the speech, he doesn't want to be the commander in chief any more than he wants to be Miss World. And Jesus, they can't even give him a decent last line: "to get back in the business of creating a more peaceful world" - what the hell is that?

$675,000? "That's what they offered."

http://gawker.com/hillary-clinton-s-awful-explanation-for-why-she-took-go-1757015538

"I wasn't committed to running." bye Felicia

haha I almost admire the effrontery

While Trump's Cruz-related hissyfit was executed in a juvenile way, I have also read that there's actually some shrewd calculus behind it.

Viz., Carson's evangelical supporters are indeed likely shift to Cruz, as the next godliest choice. But they may NOT shit to Cruz if they're shown that Cruz is a dishonest, scheming asshole who stabbed Saint Ben in the back. Trump (the theory goes) doesn't necessarily hope to win over evangelicals himself, but he sure as hell doesn't want them all coalescing around Cruz. If that's the kind of 3D chess the Donald is playing, it's clever.

But personally I don't think he sees in any dimensions other than "is this about me, or is it about something other than me?" Anything that is not about Trump is anathema, and must be shifted so that it becomes about Trump.

um, "may NOT shift to Cruz." Unfortunate typo.

an election full of Nixons

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a41785/ted-cruz-richard-nixon/

He looks so clammy. Nixon may have broke a sweat, but he never looked like he needed a bypass two days from now.

I find that my brain always wants to construct a portmanteau of 'squamous' and 'unctuous' as a descriptor of Cruz.

He's like a flan that someone dropped in the dirt.

squamptuous

He's like a flan that someone dropped in the dirt.

― Chortles And Guffaws (Old Lunch), T

omg may I use this

By all means.

A cake left out in the raaaaaiiiiinnnnnnn.....

Nixon may have broke a sweat, but he never looked like he needed a bypass two days from now.

http://www.studiobriefing.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Nixon-debate.jpg

That doesn't look so much like he needs a bypass as much as it looks like he needs a tube sock or a wash cloth.

like Lou Reed on the Magic & Loss cover

Thx for the hard lolz, pplains.

like a flan that someone dropped in the dirt

Thx for the hard lolz, pplains.

Anytime!

http://i.imgur.com/kXiP3RD.png

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3e/51/14/3e5114734d6a9d0ecd1538647acfaa2a.jpg

wait, stop! you're humanizing nixon! we have to go back! we have to g-

http://www.studiobriefing.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Nixon-debate.jpg

aaah, there we go

aaaaaaahhhh

there we go

humanizing the vacuum

speaking of that meme thing, there are already people on youtube saying stuff like do you think HILLARY CLINTON would rush to the aid of a fainting man? not on your life!!

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/02/04/bernie-sanders-new-hampshire-faint-sot.cnn/video/playlists/bernie-sanders-2016/

like, really? she gonna kick the guy?

she's got people

idk if her rushing away from the podium like that would fly with the Secret Service

iirc romney saved a guy from drowning, so really the democrats should be voting for him

the democrats should be voting for phil collins then

But he did not lend a hand!

6) Mitt Romney and his sons saved a family and their dog from drowning: Mitt Romney saw people in trouble and he didn't wait for the government to save them, he made a REAL gutsy call, and did what he had to do to save their lives.

He made a REAL gutsy call to not watching a family drown from the back porch of his lake house.

― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 3 October 2012 07:35 (3 years ago) Permalink

suck it phil collins!

― balls, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 07:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

Future NFL Hall of Famer Ray Lewis of the Ravens, listens to Phil Collins to get "psyched up".

Love turn thread has taken

6) Mitt Romney and his sons saved a family and their dog from drowning

sure, after killing their own dog

TS: Susan Collins vs. Phil Collins

No, it was the Huckabees who killed the dog. Romney just drove across the country with a dog on his roof.

6) Mitt Romney and his sons saved a family and their dog from drowning

sure, after killing their own dog

― mookieproof, Thursday, February 4, 2016 12:08 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Was this the aforementioned "REAL gutsy call"? Do mormons practice sacrifice?

iirc romney saved a guy from drowning, so really the democrats should be voting for him

― the thirteenth floorior (Doctor Casino), Thursday, February 4, 2016 8:44 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

just the reagan democrats

Courteous as ever, he took me to see something framed on the far wall... a pleasant riverside watercolor study presented itself. I recognized every curve of the oak trees and the long grassy slope of the meadow. "This," Dutch breathed, "is where I was a lifeguard for seven (sic) summers. I saved 77 lives. And you know, none of 'em ever thanked me!"

when an old addled Reagan refers to the book as "trees" I went awww

I saved 77 lives.

a true ilxor

drunk (brain damage?) guy just came in waving a nikki sixx book at me and then he started ranting about the convenience store that closed and the damn "aye-rab" who ran it and i said i think he was from Pakistan and he said YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN and then he called him a jarhead and i said i think you mean towelhead but that's still not quite right...and he said YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN and it was kinda hard to understand him cuz he was missing some teeth.

i'm STILL being punished by a christian god for laughing at that new york magazine thing!

god bless murica.

https://newrepublic.com/article/128808/everybody-hates-ted

i heard a possibly homeless woman shout "A-rab" at the clerk in the corner store a couple months ago; it was like a flashback to the '70s

xp

xp to Scott
Did he at least buy something?

no. he wanted a ceedee cleaner. to clean his ceedee collection.

I cannot get enough of these delicious Cruz anecdotes. Gotta give it up to Rubio for the best burn: "Ted has had a tough week because what's happening now is more people are learning about him."

xp: you sure he wasn't just trying to buy poppers?

**drudge siren**

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaTz7cbWwAAXswU.jpg

I'm told he's a good dancer and wouldn't be surprised if he danced well on Noche Buena and New Year's Eve events w/family.

loooooooooooool xp

i heard he goes to Berghain with Claire Danes, but just for the ice cream
http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-09/29/6/imagebuzz/webdr06/anigif_optimized-3191-1443521277-2.gif

he should join ILM, I hear there are a lot of people on there that are "really interested" in electronic dance music too

http://trumpdonald.org/

i was really hoping that would redirect to jeb bush's website

@ggreenwald
The new pro-Clinton claim that big corporate $$ isn't inherently corrupting was, ironically, a key Scalia/Thomas argument in Citizens United

^Good to keep in yr pocket for "SCOTUS SCOTUS SCOTUS" Clinton ppl

can you really call this ratfucking if the guy talks to the times about it?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/us/politics/the-right-aims-at-democrats-on-social-media-to-hit-clinton.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

Conservative strategists and operatives say they are simply filling a vacuum on the far left, as well as applying the lesson they learned in 2012, when they watched in frustration as Mitt Romney was forced to expend time and resources in a protracted primary fight. By the time he secured his party’s nomination, President Obama hardly had to make the case that his opponent was a coldhearted plutocrat; Republicans like Newt Gingrich had already made the argument for him in the primaries.

Few Republicans are more familiar with that nightmare than Matt Rhoades, who was Mr. Romney’s campaign manager. He founded America Rising in response to a recommendation contained in an autopsy of Romney’s failed presidential run that was ordered by the Republican National Committee. The group’s original goal was to compete with American Bridge, the Democratic opposition research group, but its focus under Mr. Rhoades has been to subject Mrs. Clinton to an ordeal similar to Mr. Romney’s.

“The idea is to make her life difficult in the primary and challenge her from the left,” said Colin Reed, America Rising’s executive director. “We don’t want her to enter the general election not having been pushed from the left, so if we have opportunities — creative ways, especially online — to push her from the left, we’ll do it just to show those folks who she needs to turn out that she’s not in line with them.”

Mr. Law said members of his staff at American Crossroads had easily been able to inhabit the liberal role, despite being fervent Republicans. “We wear these little bracelets — W.W.E.W.D.,” Mr. Law joked, referring to “What would Elizabeth Warren do?”

beware the memes of America Rising comrades!! share if you agree

In the process they may draw the mildly conservative undecideds into her camp though.

Interesting development:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/02/03/democrat-debate-flint/79775366/

Dem debate in Flint on March 6th. I'm hoping that someone is on the ball enough to schedule enough facetime or co-promotional events with the slate of Democratic candidates for all those state seats currently held by douchebag Tea a Party types currently ruining my home state. Snyder's next election isn't til the midterms.

Weird new tick I've developed: going up to random strangers and yelling "I'm sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails!" at them. They don't respond very well.

^^
I wonder if you'd have better luck with "hurry up with my damn croissants"

hillary is not doing well in this debate imo. like worse than usual

not saying that bernie is wailing on her or anything, it's more on her

nevermind, he's now wailing on her

Isn't it "whaling on her"

if anyone reads this thread later and doesn't really want to watch the debate in full, at least check out 26:00 to 32:00 (or so), starting a little bit before clinton accuses sanders of promoting an "artful smear" against her.

Didn't even know about this--they were just on CNN last night.

xpost

i don't know, i always thought it was wailing for some reason

~ bob marley

I'd like to go back and check that first Democratic debate, where I'm pretty sure Clinton was against bringing back Glass–Steagall just because she thought it was a bad idea. Now she's against it because it's just not enough.

But Sanders still shies away.

chuck todd, for once, did a good thing: he asked clinton whether she'd release the transcripts of ALL the paid speeches she gave, not just the goldman sachs ones

(she said she'd look into it)

she said she didn't know "the status"

Clinton has tried to go on the offensive by getting defensive - but Sanders just isn't engaging directly. In a way, he's weaseling away from personal accusations he's made, but somehow Clinton isn't looking the better for it.

He's really quite sly in his own way ("let's talk about the issues"), and it must be infuriating to HRC.

his answer on various threats and settling on north korea was kinda weird

These foreign policy questions are disasters. HRC believes in the premise of Chuck Todd's questions. Sanders comes off stupid because he doesn't.

Yeah, I don't know how you're supposed to answer a "Who is more of a threat, China, Russia, or North Korea?" question. I mean, none of them are really a direct threat to the United States, which is the only world superpower.

ah excellent a long defense of the death penalty

the death penalty is barbaric and i agree with sanders on this

For his last meal, Ricky Ray Rector left the pecan pie on the side of the tray, telling the corrections officers who came to take him to the execution chamber that he was saving it "for later". The rest of the pecan pie was not disposed of until Rector had been executed.

all in the state-murder family

Death penalty is wrong on every level. Huge majority of americans support it. So of course hillary is for it.

The one level I'm not sure about is whether, in some cases, it's actually more cruel to keep somebody alive. Maybe that's how we should do it. If someone has confessed to a horrific crime and requests euthanasia, maybe we should consider that as something less cruel. I don't believe in any death penalty apart from that.

the whole being on death row for decades thing...um...they should look into that.

Josh Barro ‏@jbarro 2h2 hours ago Manhattan, NY
Sanders is out of his depth on foreign policy, but in fairness, there's no clear correlation between knowledge & good decision-making on FP.

can't be repeated enough

Death penalty is wrong on every level. Huge majority of americans support it. So of course hillary is for it.

― Οὖτις, Thursday, February 4, 2016 10:15 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not really a "huge" majority anymore, and it's a declining majority.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1606/death-penalty.aspx

but i don't disagree about clinton-- this is her cynicism in a nutshell.

obama doesn't opposed the death penalty either, although he's never defended it per se.

Clintons approach in this debate was supremely wrong-headed (esp in the portion Karl Malone mentions upthread), almost bafflingly so.

Also, that death penalty thing was def a weird moment of pitching to the general, not the primaries, which is at least a minor misstep.

Bernie's response re: foreign policy experience needs a little more kick:

"Dick Cheney has more experience than both of us."

@pareene
Sanders should just say "I have no foreign policy but hers is terrifying."

Never say "I was flattered when Henry Kissinger said I..." unless the end of that sentence is "finally made him pay for his crimes."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/chelsea-clinton-calls-bernie-president-sanders-in-awkward-slip/ar-BBp90d5?li=BBnb7Kz

even the NYT is calling Clintssinger's performance "defensive and angry," so i guess i gotta watch this

As pure performance it was tough and focused, actually. Both acquitted themselves well as performers.

the last 45 minutes they were agreeing so often that they reminded me of Bush-Gore Debates, Round Two.

well both those posts brought me crashing down to reality, so thx

just watch the first segment (particularly around 25 to 35 minutes in). things got relatively intense there, and then they both pulled back for the rest of the debate

i wonder if Screaming Caps Gal has heard of Henry Kissinger

poll funnies!

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/268362-sanders-tied-with-clinton-nationwide-poll

also i heard Carly Fiorina say on Marketplace Morning that the banks wrote the Dodd-Frank bill. Why didn't you guys tell me she's OTM once in awhile?

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/268362-sanders-tied-with-clinton-nationwide-poll

I know national polls are suspect but holy shit....nationwide, 30 point deficit gone. Bernie down by 2.

Oops, sorry Mobius xp

yeah, i don't believe it, but i like the thought of Blankfein and Katha Pollitt both shitting themselves.

I really hit a nerve with Pollitt on Twitter the other day, she wasn't a fan of my phrase "Boomer narcissism"

I really can't address my core feelings about her bcz i don't wish to be banned from the board just before baseball season.

Jezebel's got a pretty good article about Cruz's college days.

http://theslot.jezebel.com/heres-what-happens-when-you-try-and-track-down-a-ted-cr-1752337625

lmao just came here with that

a blatant fishing expedition comes back with the goods

disappointed there was no 'shitting on the floor' story

In naked but non-sexual news, multiple classmates who asked for anonymity recounted Cruz participating in the “Nude Olympics,” a (now defunct) Princeton tradition in which members of the sophomore class got drunk and ran around campus sans clothing during the first snow of the year. According to several classmates, none of whom were firsthand witnesses, Cruz was said to have run the wrong way and was later seen naked and banging against the window of a locked dorm in an attempt to gain entrance.

Numerous as the secondhand accounts were, we were unable to confirm the nude-lockout incident. However, we did establish that the following spring, Cruz, who was a member of the Campus Safety Committee, appeared in at least five separate issues of the Daily Princetonian as a staunch opponent of the concept of locked entryways.

I just came here to post that, too! More fodder for the "absolutely no one likes Cruz" trough, but this beautiful gem really needs to be highlighted:

In naked but non-sexual news, multiple classmates who asked for anonymity recounted Cruz participating in the “Nude Olympics,” a (now defunct) Princeton tradition in which members of the sophomore class got drunk and ran around campus sans clothing during the first snow of the year. According to several classmates, none of whom were firsthand witnesses, Cruz was said to have run the wrong way and was later seen naked and banging against the window of a locked dorm in an attempt to gain entrance.

Numerous as the secondhand accounts were, we were unable to confirm the nude-lockout incident. However, we did establish that the following spring, Cruz, who was a member of the Campus Safety Committee, appeared in at least five separate issues of the Daily Princetonian as a staunch opponent of the concept of locked entryways.

xpost OMG!

Yeah, that's the fucking highlight right there.

hahahaha wow.

honestly though the hardest thing to picture is that we now have presidential candidates born young enough that they had video games in their college dorm rooms, for people to drop by and play.

I'd like to think that all of his subsequent political platforms have been in opposition to something that inconvenienced him personally or caused him embarrassment.

just realized i should have just quoted the article alongside a certain image dear to all our hearts

xxpost Yeah, I was really thrown when I realized that Cruz is less than a decade older than me.

my fave part of that debate was bernie's *even on our WORST days we're a hundred times better than the republican candidates*.

cuz it was true. even if you hate everybody.

little bonding moment there.

still, older lunch xp

if he's elected Oliver Stone has his political Porky's movie in development.

rubio is my school year : /

it's funny how rubio has gotten the tag of "oh he'll be our obama, with the youthin' and the energy" and cruz is basically the exact same age. both a few years younger than obama when he started, actually; the only presidents inaugurated at a younger age were jfk and teddy roosevelt, maybe bill clinton (not doing the math to bring cruz up to inauguration day).

yeah but did Teddy, JFK, and Clinton smear petroleum jelly on their faces like Cruz

Yeah, Cruz just seems like an oily old dude. Like, I'll bet his medicine cabinet is indistinguishable from that of an incontinent septuagenarian.

Much as i'm allergic to JFK worship (being an Irish Catholic child from the '60s), Pierce had a good line about Marco tryin' it on:

(Brief Historical Note—when Marco Rubio was 26, he was about to take a job on the Miami City Commission. When JFK was 26, he was towing an injured shipmate between enemy-held islands with his teeth. Just sayin'.)

well he certainly had the teeth to do it.

i was gonna say obama was the first black president of the harvard law review at 26 but i looked and he was 28...slacker.

Yeah, there's a weird sobering/horrifying effect of when ("serious") presidential start gettin' _uncomfortably_ close to one's age. Like, "oh shit, Cruz was a freshman only 6 years before me. Oh God."

I'm reminded of Dave Barry of all people writing about the shock of realization of his own age when he first saw an airline pilot younger than himself.

Random video game side-note:

Which feels more accurate: Cruz as an froshling Princeton student be playing an NES, a Sega Master System, or the Atari they all still had?

Or was he the kinda dude who would brag about his new Amiga to everyone? "Look at these graphics!"

obama is 7 years older than me. he's my brother and sister's generation. the foghat generation. tail-end boomers technically. whereas i am of the X. he seems way older than me though. i mean, he's an adult and all that.

Was at HLS the same time as Cruz (he gpt his JD the year I started); his reputation as a creep was well-established.

now that we're quoting Pierce:

he rest of the debate rocked back and forth. HRC pretty clearly won a long section on foreign policy, which actually is her wheelhouse and not ground on which Sanders can truly compete, except to remind America that HRC voted for the Iraq war in 2002. But this previous interchange—over who is a progressive and why, and about what is discreet influence peddling and what is not—would have been impossible had Sanders not jumped into the race and if he had not caught fire the way he has. It is simply not credible to believe that the debate would have been this sharply joined if it were HRC and, say, vice-president Biden were running against each other. Without Bernie Sanders, it is hard to imagine HRC fighting as hard as she has to defend her progressive bona fides. Gone is the DLC spouse who talked about "super-predators" and jailing incorrigible juveniles—mainly, African-American ones—before trying to help them.

This one small slice of the debate demonstrates that, at least for a moment, Hillary Rodham Clinton is being forced to campaign in a way that would have been unthinkable for her a year ago. Without the Sanders campaign, the Clinton campaign likely would have been an endless chorus of banality about "families" and "helping the middle class." It certainly wouldn't have been about defending her as a woman of the progressive left. This is quite the damnedest thing.

xxpost Yeah, I was really thrown when I realized that Cruz is less than a decade older than me.

Cruz is five days shy of being exactly one year older than me.

you guys celebrating with pie, beer, and a reading of the Confederate constitution?

I really hit a nerve with Pollitt on Twitter the other day, she wasn't a fan of my phrase "Boomer narcissism"

― Iago Galdston, Friday, February 5, 2016 4:01 PM (1 hour ago)

katha pollitt is the fucking worst, her politics-free "go hillary!" piece is almost as bad as joan walsh's

so, are there any sane republicans left? i never hear about them. aren't there any older people with money who just want, like, decorum and a strong military and lots of tax breaks and who aren't all LET'S BUILD A WALL MOTHERFUCKERS and all that? maybe there aren't any left. i mean dubya was kind of an old school choice bred to look after the money and he was pretty fucking nuts. i guess romney wasn't completely nuts. romney looks like a classy guy right about now.

Clinton's definition of "progressive" is laughable

I mean, aside from the things highlighted in that Pierce quote, I do not mind Clinton the moderate. For purely selfish reasons driven by my personal class and privilege, I flourished under the policies of her husband. I think people in my situation would continue to flourish, regardless of color, were she to continue them. I think people of my class will experience long-term benefits from either Sanders or Clinton based on the platforms they are campaigning on now, particularly when compared to the Republicans. I also think Sanders will be normalized towards the right pretty quickly into his presidency by virtue of the situation in Washington, so his actual achievable platform is not far removed from Clinton's. Policywise I don't see enough distance between them for me to rabidly back one over the other.

Both of them have extreme supporters who suck hardcore. Clinton's extreme supporters suck in a way that I have become numb towards over the past 7.5 years, whereas Sanders' extreme supporters exist in a bubble that I've interacted with but have largely been able to avoid dealing with on a sustained level until this primary season, so right now I am finding them much more irritating. I am attempting not to allow that to cloud how I view the candidates, neither of whom I believe is defined by the irritating segments of their fanbases.

This is several paragraphs to say I still don't care who wins the Democratic nomination; that person has my vote until they personally insult me on national television, at which point I'll probably just write in my dad like I did in 1992.

xp: most of the sane Republicans have turned into Democrats

there are still moderate republicans but they never get much higher than, like, the city council level. the way the national party has gone has made it very hard for anyone to win any prominent office w/o mouthing all the usual insane rhetoric or adopting extremist stances. i read an article a few months back about the current mayor of san diego, who's apparently a moderate republican (note: i'm not from san diego so i don't know whether this is exaggerated) and is already getting pressured to state his views on trump, etc.

barney frank: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/three-reasons-why-things-will-get-harder-for-bernie-sanders-213591#ixzz3zJYfdm4L

so, are there any sane republicans left

I've got some in my family and I've urged them to vote for Hillary.

I surveyed my uncle, he was generally non-commital but said he would be ok w rubio, christie or the donald

i can totally see the current repub governor of the state i live in running in 4 years a la romney. now i see he's backing christie. he doesn't seem totally insane. though he does remind me of an attack on titan monster.

Charlie Baker says GOP's 'slide' led him to Chris Christie - The Boston Globe

baker kinda the moderate i'm talking about now that i think of it!

Ha, I totally forgot who the "new" governor was; for years, I would just excitedly say, "IT'S PAT PATRICK'S SON!"

"the GOP slide" sounds like a particularly sad line dance

Jeb leads it by sadly intoning, "Please slide."

@BillKristol
Note to @JebBush re your snarky comments about @marcorubio: Rubio is as qualified to be president as G.H.W. Bush was when he ran in 1980.

in that he is a natural-born american citizen over the age of 35, that is true

Kristol otoh not qualified to wipe his own ass

Good news is the 3 TV screens in the lunch space were NOT CNN today! They were on the local TimeWarner news channel, which featured a remote from New Hampshire reporting on crushed Trump fans after the snow made him skip a planned fly-in appearance.

I really have no interest in that old john Barney Frank's opinion about anything.

"Please slide."

lolol, really need a Cha Cha Slide/Please Clap mashup.

great post, dan

I think people of my class will experience long-term benefits from either Sanders or Clinton based on the platforms they are campaigning on now, particularly when compared to the Republicans. I also think Sanders will be normalized towards the right pretty quickly into his presidency by virtue of the situation in Washington, so his actual achievable platform is not far removed from Clinton's. Policywise I don't see enough distance between them for me to rabidly back one over the other.

this, pretty much. the reason i'd prefer bernie is 1) i'd hope that at least by starting out from a more strongly liberal position, his compromises would be more palatable, and 2) foreign policy (or more accurately, not hillary's foreign policy)

better the Devil you don't know, i always say. He might have candy.

mmmm, devil candy...

as we get closer to november, remind me to ask dan what his dad's name is

had the same thought! Jill Stein again won't cut it for me.

just one position paper on Glass-Steagall and Mr P is in

starting out from a more strongly liberal position, his compromises would be more palatable

otm. the optimal starting position on inauguration day is the one that's furthest to the left while still resulting in an electoral victory. Clinton has her cautious opinion on where that sweet spot might be, while Sanders is more about shooting the moon.

Chas Pierce on the Kissinger ref:

Dear Ms. HRC: There is being tone-deaf, and then there is not being able to tell the difference between the New York Philharmonic and an abbatoir.

No interest in HRC's sweet spot.

You and Bill probably share that in common.

great post, dan

lol thank you k3v, but I will admit that I initially thought you were referring to:

"the GOP slide" sounds like a particularly sad line dance

and I was thinking to myself "damn, has the bar fallen that low"

thought this was interesting from 2008:
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.php?ind=D&cycle=2008&recipdetail=S&mem=Y&sortorder=U

the only sane republican I know is a hardcore Zionist and opposes Obama/Clinton/Kerry on grounds that they are 'very anti Israel" which is preposterous to me. That said she feels completely let down by everyone on the Republican side this time.

iirc sheldon adelson is bankrolling rubio's campaign

i don't think either clinton or sanders is going to radically reform the US military. without googling, who said: "I will protect America, defend our interests and values, embrace our commitments to defend freedom and human rights, and relentlessly combat terrorism."

Eugene Debs

George Lincoln Rockwell

u're both right

EV-RY-BO-DY (please) CLAP YOUR HANDS

the How of relentlessness is what i suspect will continue to be elusive until the terror of The Encroaching Extinction Event makes it yesterday's apocalypse.

(ie the 'Sandinista' mayor of NYC wants to build a trolley line to serve condos that will be on flooded territory by 2050)

YOU GOTTA JEB! CREWNECK PUT YOUR HANDS UP (please)
YOU GOTTA JEB! GUACA BOWLE PUT YOUR HANDS UP (please)

i don't think either clinton or sanders is going to radically reform the US military.

― Mordy, Friday, February 5, 2016 8:26 PM (30 minutes ago)

only one of these candidates voted to give the worst president in history a free hand to invade iraq, holds neocon-approved views on america's "role" in the world, stood well to the right of obama on basically every foreign policy crisis since 2008, and currently favors a no-fly zone in syria. i suppose this doesn't bother centrist liberals like joan walsh who've managed to turn a blind eye to drones et al for the past seven years, but i'm concerned enough about it that i would have serious qualms about voting for clinton. it's not surprising that a former secretary of state has far more foreign policy experience and can speak about it with more authority than a senator, but i'd like to hear a better defense of clinton's foreign policy than the constant assertion that her "experience" automatically trumps all.

i suppose this doesn't bother centrist liberals like joan walsh who've managed to turn a blind eye to drones et al for the past seven years

bernie says he wouldn't end the drone program

http://patriotretort.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/The-Hillary-Clinton-Experience.jpg

every president is going to relish being assassin-in-chief

xp