Neil Gaiman: Classic Or Dud

No I am not, have never been and never intend to be a goth. Does that answer the second one.

My Modern Novel teacher (Scott Bradfield - a pretty good writer himself; check out _The History of Luminious Motion_) went on a mini- rant about Gaiman one class - pretentious bastard, no-talent hack, bla bla bla. And this was back in 1995! I'd hate to see what he'd say now.

I never thought I was a goth though I was accused of it recently on wearing dark red lipstick and elbow length black lace gloves. No one seemed to realise I was doing eighties revival. Sigh...........

x0x0

Of course Gaiman is a follow on from Moore - the latter was his mentor and I hear that they still send letters under pseudemoms to each other's columns.

David:

The History of Luminous Motion is a fine novel, probably the one I remember most fondly from 1996, but hardly gets Bradfield off the Gaiman hook. Teenagers becoming Warlocks and drawing pentangles on their hands? Neil would have been proud. Where is SB based, by the way? Is it East Coast?

His children's novel was, uh, OK. I bought the special edition for the artwork. American Gods wasn't particularly special, but not awful.

I've never read any of the Sandman/Neverwhere/graphic novels... or really, anything else he's done.

am reading smoke and mirrors right now, will get back to you.

Good Omens is brilliant, and I keep meaning to nick it back off my mate who has had it now for about 4 years.

Andrew - I only bought Kindly Ones as a whole graphic novel, I was a bit of a late starter in the Sandman books. In fact I've only read about 5 so far anyway.

As for his other work, my favourite Gaiman comics are actually Black Orchid and The High Cost of Living. The former is a clever subversion of superhero clichés (better than Frank Miller's attempts to do the same thing), and the latter just sums up perfectly what's good about Gaiman's writing (his endless humanism, mainly). The Time of Your Life wasn't quite as good as the first Death series, and Signal to Noise and Violent Cases were both interesting but somewhat artsy. Gaiman's books are entertaining, but not brilliant.

About Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore: I don't think Gaiman has ever surpassed his mentor. His work has been constantly good, unlike Moore's, but at his best Moore still beats him. Also, Moore is more visually oriented, and his comics are always innovative both on the visual and the textual level. Gaiman, on the other hand, is more of a traditional writer; his work usually has too much text, and that is always a bad thing for a comic.

Well, that and the fact that Gaiman == Gilderoy Lockhart. (truth copyright Angela Cotter)

this is arrant nonsense... well, whatever about the Kindly Ones, the Wake was a long essay in wanky tiresomeness that I only bought for the sake of completism.

no way. kim newman rules. (and you're forgetting the velvet suits and cane).

The last two issues of Sandman (the Chinese story and the Shakespeare story) were unnecessary, admittedly. But being a long time reader of the comic, I couldn't help but be moved by seeing all the series' characters gather one last time for the wake and the funeral. Call me a sentimentalist.

What's Signal to Noise like? anyone?

It's a Gaiman/McKean collaboration, and it's about a dying film-maker who tries to direct his last movie inside his head. It's actually quite good, better than Violent Cases anyway, because it isn't as artsy and pretentious as that one.

_American Gods_ was damn good, though. The best parts of the
book were the parts where the hero was going all domestic,
renting an apartment, going on dates, etc. Neil Gaiman could
write great "normal" stories, minus murder and magic.

Incidentally, according to the TV credits, Neverwhere was based on an idea by Lenny Henry; although the concept of there being a secret underground London is a very old legend, especially the bit about the giant boars. They supposedly escaped from Smithfield market into the River Fleet, and their descendants are down there somewhere still.

the whole thing has an element of Myst/Riven looks about it.

I think it's supposed to be Delirium from Sandman:

http://www.obscure.org/~domino/images/delirium.jpg

...though if I remember correctly, Gaiman denies it in some of his introductions to the Sandman books and says Tori is more like Death. Anyway, the book where that strip is taken from does feature Delirium visiting an S/M club where a Tori Amos song is playing on the background.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/thewire/pip/4uyaw/

no Listen Again link on page but it's here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio3_promo.shtml
under 'The Wire'

http://www.ojaiwan.net/cwimages/prophecy3theasce_01.jpg

wonder if this means Coraline will be decent or not.... i <3 experimental animation and the handmade everything production... but Neil Gaiman?! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coraline_(film)

Will refuse to date a Gaiman fan.

Haha, am reading a Gaiman novel at the moment. It's quite good, but basically just Terry Pratchett ripped out of Discworld and slapped onto America. Nothing outstanding, but a pleasant read.

from a place of ignorance I have always had a "ewww" feeling about this person- probably because I think that great literature is already "goth" enough, thanks.

Will refuse to date a Gaiman fan.

oooh handy filter thx

x-post would that be American Gods, Sick Mouthy? That's a pretty good book if so, the only one of his I've read.

Aye, that's what I'm reading. I've also read Anansi Boys, and the one with Pratchett from years ago.

i like Gaiman a lot but generally think his novels are a bit rub. his best work is either Sandman or his children's/YA novels - both Coraline and The Graveyard Book are aces.

Maybe I should revive my Kipling thread for this but I just started reading Puck of Pook's Hill, and the idea behind American God's is basically Puck's monologue with America substituted for England:

'But they didn't all flit at once. They dropped off, one by one,
through the centuries. Most of them were foreigners who
couldn't stand our climate. They flitted early.'

'How early?' said Dan.

'A couple of thousand years or more. The fact is they
began as Gods. The Phoenicians brought some over
when they came to buy tin; and the Gauls, and the Jutes,
and the Danes, and the Frisians, and the Angles brought
more when they landed. They were always landing in
those days, or being driven back to their ships, and they
always brought their Gods with them. England is a bad
country for Gods.

...

They were a stiff-necked, extravagant set of idols, the Old Things. But
what was the result? Men don't like being sacrificed at the
best of times; they don't even like sacrificing their farm-
horses. After a while, men simply left the Old Things
alone, and the roofs of their temples fell in, and the Old
Things had to scuttle out and pick up a living as they
could."

I liked "Good Omens" in my Pratchett years, and now I am twice as old I remember it more fondly than the Discworld series, and my embarrassment at former Pratchett fandom leads me to believe that maybe it was good because of Gaiman, and that I should read Gaiman's other work; but maybe I'm just a little too hasty to deny my disowned teenage canon and swap it for someone else's.

Anyway I saw a band called American Gods last year and they were v good, so perhaps I should have faith in their apparent name source.

(None of this is of any use or interest to anyone else, but what I mean to say is that I'll be lurking around the thread picking up recommendations so I can see which of my kneejerk suspicions is right)

i enjoyed american gods.

it's a lot like the thing he did with early sandman (and moore did with watchmen and top 10, and morrison did with zenith) - rescuing characters from obscurity. is fun on a 'spot the reference' level.

anansi boys has been languishing on my amazon wishlist from before it was published...

Puck of Pook's Hill is great, Clotpoll! The story with the Roman Centurion is particularly atmospheric...

Anansi Boys is pretty unmemorable. I'm quite up for the Graveyard Book, he writes well for children.

I'm looking forward Coraline, but that's really down to being a Henry Selick fan and the hopes that one day he will do something as winsome as The Nightmare Before Christmas again.

what's the current Gaiman/Russell Sandman comic like?

What's that, DV? I can't find any info on it. I love P Craig Russell (I assume that's the Russell in question).

zomg spacecadet we are in oppositeland of teenagedom:

my embarrassment at former Pratchett Gaiman fandom leads me to believe that maybe it was good because of Gaiman Pratchett, and that I should read Gaiman's Pratchett's other work; but maybe I'm just a little too hasty to deny my disowned teenage canon and swap it for someone else's.

Or maybe Good Omens is just good in its own way?

I'LL FORM THE HEAD

I hate Gaiman but I may go see Coraline.

Pratchett gets a bad rap, he's a smart guy - probably smarter than Gaiman, despite being a less gifted storyteller. Not that I'd actually bother to read one of his novels now, but I'm glad I did.

Good Omens is class, even if some of the jokes are pretty dated now. might be the best thing either of them have done.

Hooray for Youtube scrobbler, a great idea!

Oops sorry guys wrong thread I'll go back to the last.fm area...

'Anansi Boys' is a big dull dud, sadly. 'Good Omens' is still good, though.

Anansi Boys was a borderline-racist embarassment.

What's that, DV? I can't find any info on it. I love P Craig Russell (I assume that's the Russell in question).

Russell's writing and drawing an adaptation of The Dream Hunters, the old Gaiman-written Amano-illustrated Sandman prose book.

The voice casting for Coraline looks promising at least: Keith David (cat), John Hodgman, French & Saunders

I love Keith David!

I have high hopes.

Meantime, Newbery Award ahoy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/books/27newb.html?_r=1&8dpc

The film is good -- nice 3D -- even if they added a co-conspirator boy and kinda muffed the 'second climax.'

Of course, it's more American than the book (not just the setting change). I'm kinda curious about what the Stephin Merritt stage musical version will be like...

I am looking forward to this, the animation looks lovely.

Yeah, should be a treat. It will be interesting to compare it to MirrorMask since Gaiman's said that was essentially his own demi-adaptation of the book's story.

the single They Might Be Giants song kinda sticks out, though.

They Might Be Giants? o_O

Quite a bit of the score employs children's choral stuff. Nothing scarier.

ha I thought that was TMBG, other dad even looked just like John Flansberg.

Before this (Coraline I mean) I hadn't seen a 3D film since the red & blue specs days and so maybe I was just a little blown away by what technology now affords but holy shit I really enjoyed this movie. When she first opened the door to the stretchy blue tunnel I actually caught myself gasping.

Also as far as his books go I think I benefited from reading Anansi Boys first of his books, I do still like it but it's not nearly as enveloping as American Gods or The Cemetery Book.

He has a short story about, um, some kids and a weird house in a garden with a warning on it or something I read one night and found actually frightening...I have a terrible memory though and don't remember it's name or what compilation it's from.

Did anyone else see Coraline, then? Just got back from a 3D showing, since those are about to stop, I hear -- great film, echoing Morbz and Nickalicious in praise for it, another Selick slam-dunk and I was pleased to see how relatively packed the theater was for it a couple of weeks after release. Thinking of it, MirrorMask and Stardust as a sort-of group in three different ways to adapt similar variants makes for good contemplation.

mirrormask wasn't an adaptation of anything, i don't think? unless that's not what you mean.

In the promo/commentary/whatever on the MirrorMask DVD Gaiman talks about how MirrorMask and Coraline (the book) were simultaneous riffs on the same general idea -- I forget the exact details.

So, it turns out Lucien the Librarian in Sandman might've been a self-portrait.

http://blog.shelfari.com/.a/6a00d8341e478253ef0120a4e31b10970b-pi

http://blog.shelfari.com/.a/6a00d8341e478253ef0120a4e31b06970b-pi

http://blog.shelfari.com/.a/6a00d8341e478253ef0120a4e31ae8970b-pi

http://blog.shelfari.com/.a/6a00d8341e478253ef0120a4e31ae0970b-pi

That's quite a lot of books! I wonder what percentage of them he has actually read? Anyway, gotta love the jackalope head on the wall.

Gaiman reads Hiaasen? GET OUT.

Also interesting that he keeps a paperback of Carrie among his multiple editions of Coraline...

Good thing the dude doesn't move very often.

back when i used to read his blog (sigh) i was quite in envy of the fact he had a basement library. it just seemed like the coolest thing you could have. but er that looks like daylight, so i guess he's moved?

loving this comment on the link:

LOL,

My library's about 50% larger, not to mention far more varied. Significant lack of Asian lit in NG's library, lots of pulpish stuff like King. I'm sure that his is more valuable by virtue of some of the first editions I saw in the photos, but he's thin on a lot of literature and important writers (Ellison, Lessing, Grass, Murasaki, Tasso, Calvino, etc) and essayists. FYI, I read 2-3 books a day, which over 30 years brings my personal reading total up to about 25,000 books, most of which I've retained in my personal library

thanks for that dude

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackalope

This joke was employed by Ronald Reagan to reporters in 1980 during a tour of his California ranch. Reagan had a rabbit head with antlers, which he referred to as a "jackalope", mounted on his wall. Reagan liked to claim that he had caught the animal himself.

but er that looks like daylight, so i guess he's moved?

No, the windows are clearly at ground level, on the top of fairly high walls = the shelves are all underground. On his blog today he laments that the upstairs library where all the cool reference books live isn’t shown.

I know he’s looking at moving back to Britain in the next few years, will probably have to book an entire ship if and when.

i did wonder about that. it's sort of insufficiently basementy for my liking. although i guess it's a much more ecological way of having a basement library.

Longish article on Gaiman in the New Yorker. I had no idea that he was mixed up in Scientology.

Wow, that's for sure. Very interesting.

Maybe one day Suri Cruise will become a famous author.

Great article - thanks for the link.

He's marrying Amanda Palmer, though I suppose thats old news now?

!! News to me! I just found out a couple of weeks ago that he and mary were divorced. I need to keep up.

I think they only publically admitted they were even dating about a month back.

Yeah that was the other thing I was all ORLY about. Engagement via Sharpie, hm.

So do you think amanda palmer was a gaiman fangirl as a youth and now she has grown up to fulfill her teenage fantasies (as well as those of thousands of similar girls)?

gaiman is surrogate for robert smith obv

lol

One thing's for sure: She enjoys nekkid antics on the red carpet

I tried having a crush on Neil Gaiman in high school and it never really worked.

I just wasn't goth enough to get worked up over him.

i enjoyed sandman up until i realized neil gaiman ends all of his complex multi-issue storylines with the same damn whimpering deus ex machina non-ending every time out. i'd still probably rate a couple of the short story issues. (i haven't dared approach his novels for this very reason vis a vis time-investment.)

I'm not very goth and don't care about Gaiman's writing but I would fuckin' wreck that.

I only know anything about either Gaiman or Palmer because of my friends going on and on about either/both all the time. I've only ever read one Gaiman book (the one he did with Pratchett) and I'm no Dresden Dolls fan at all.

i'm a sentimental fool and all but the neil gaiman & amanda palmer thing delights me so much-- they are such a power couple!

At Worldcon, the international science-fiction convention, where he was the guest of honor in August, people walked around wearing pins that read “Neil Gaiman! Squeeeeeee!”—an expression of hysterical enthusiasm.

Ian R-M has so much to answer for.

"Squeee" has been around a lot longer than our young mr cuddlestein. God, I hate that word.

Fair to blame Jhonen Vasquez for that one. Wonder what he's been up to, post-Invader Zim?

Have we mentioned his non-fiction biography of Douglas Adams, written in an annoying faux-Adams styleeee?

The NYer link notes the faux-Adamsness. (Americans should beware, their editions are often heavily revised by other hands.)

Wonder what he's been up to, post-Invader Zim?

Apparently he's working on a (presumably animated - fuck, I hope so) movie version of Johnny the Homicidal Maniac! I was no fan at all of Zim, but THAT as a dark, scribbly animated movie could potentially be freaking awesome.

It could also be hideous. Please don't anyone let Tim Burton touch it.

okay this is weird, i found out today that one of my close associates is his son, which was very strange as most of our other associates operate on a vastly different arts/culture platform and have no idea who NG is. son and dad are quite, quite different afaict.

you work at g00gl3?

yeah he's said that he doesn't understand half of what his son tells him about his job, and usually just smiles and says "That's brilliant."

no, not a work association. but i will say his son is really, really talented in quite a few different ways.

Don't know if I ever posted this, a 2006 interview:

http://www.citypages.com/2006-11-29/news/enter-sandman/all

http://io9.com/5628181/neil-gaimans-sandman-coming-to-tv-at-last?skyline=true&s=i

Would watch. A way better idea than a movie.

Wow. Sandman could actually make a really great series, esp if it's on HBO or something.

that nyer profile of him last year was pretty great - kinda let him hang himself with his own rope

I think this would work only if it was traditonal animation. No way do I want to see a CGI Sandman.

Who said anything about animation?

I did. I said that this would work only if it was traditional animation. If they're gonna make it in live action, it will look awful.

Well, you know best.

He pioneered the author-as-internet-celebrity trend, right? So, dud.

Doesn't have to be CG Tuomas, just a decent actor with white make-up, a wig and a big black cloak.

will watch. I saw some Supernatural and it was alright. just glad someone got in before Tim Burton.

the right wig is key

He pioneered the author-as-internet-celebrity trend, right? So, dud.

Wait, what?

He has had a blog for like ten years, and I think it's pretty popular. Not sure if he really pioneered it, or if he's totally a celebrity though.

It's not a bad blog, really.

Anyway, rumor has it he's still trying to make a movie of "Death: The High Cost of Living", and that he plans to (ulp) direct it. Oh ffs, let Del Toro do it.

"let"

Like he wouldn't.

He got married last night in Berkeley.

I'm sure goth girls are rending their garments on livejournal at this very moment.

Hob Gadling is prolley one of my favorite characters in all of comix.

I don't like Amanda Palmer and sadly it has a lot to do with me liking Neil Gaiman far too much. I'm not proud of it.

You're allowed to not like Amanda Palmer, she's very irksome.

I thought all these years it was Hob GaLDing, I can't believe it. But Drugs OTM, he is a great character.

I've been slowly and not particularly intently re-reading Sandman over the last couple of weeks, and I've been finding the quirky historical one-issue stories generally a lot more arresting than the long Important arcs so far, which is pretty much the opposite reaction to the one I had when I was first reading the series as a teenager. Just read the Augustus issue followed by the Emperor of the US one, both of which are great.

Yeah - I've noticed he works better in short form. My two fave bits of his are probably that Emperor Of The US story and the Warhol story he did in MIRACLEMAN. Probably add "Murder Mysteries" in there as well.

Actually, I think I ripped off (well, not necessarily, it is a true story, minus Gaiman's embellishments) that Emperor story for a story I submitted to my high school anthology.

New prequel miniseries announced with JH Williams on art:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=39721

^ Sandman, that is.

!

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=48465

“The room broke out into cheers again as the panel brought up the image of the name Miracleman, playing a video of writer Neil Gaiman speaking about the character.
“Miracleman #25 has been sitting in the darkness, nobody’s seen it…I love the idea that it’s finally going to be seen,” Gaiman said, calling it the “big incomplete book of my life,” and announcing Marvel’s intention to bring the material back into print.

Quesada told the cheering audience that in January 2014 they will be printing the “Miracleman” material and Gaiman’s end to the story.”

I'm thinking abt reading The Sandman and don't know whether to get the new recolored editions that are the only ones available in print, or track down the old original ones. The new ones look more "true" to the subject matter and are probably "better" but gosh they look so generic and sterile and lack all of the charm of the original ones (which are so much more true to their era)

OG on left, new recoloring on right

http://comicsalliance.com/files/2010/09/sandman1.jpg
http://comicsalliance.com/files/2010/09/sandman2.jpg
http://comicsalliance.com/files/2010/09/sandman3.jpg

it almost looks like the way that remixed/remastered version of Pearl Jam's "Ten" sounds, like do you not realize that so much of the charm is that it's a product of a specific era??

I would go with originals for the sake of nostalgia, but some of that '90s Vertigo coloring was the worst. Looked like somebody puked rust all over the page.

can't accuse Oliff or Vozzo of that though. seps got terrible around Brief Lives but solid after that.

a lot of his novels are cheap on amazon kindle today, in the UK anyway (maybe connected with new neverwhere story on the radio?)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=s9_acsd_al_bw_clnk_r?node=4725112031

How the Marquis Got His Coat Back
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b080xppt

Quesada told the cheering audience that in January 2014 they will be printing the “Miracleman” material and Gaiman’s end to the story.”

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, October 13, 2013 7:48 AM (three years ago)

lol

did that not happen?

Golden Age was released as hardback but I don't know about Silver Age.

Indirect but: Cinamon Hadley, who became the inadvertant model for Death in The Sandman, has passed:

https://www.comicmix.com/2018/01/06/cinamon-hadley-the-girl-who-was-death-has-died/

Rest in Peace, or head off to your next adventure, Cinamon Hadley. You gave Death of the Endless her face and her smile. https://t.co/lsikh0BHCW

— Neil Gaiman (@neilhimself) January 6, 2018

Dud.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/19/neil-gaiman-apologises-skye-breaking-lockdown-rules-new-zealand

lol I had no idea he was married to Amanda Palmer, but other than being a thread on ILX I have no idea who she is anyway.

OMG!!!!! why did you not also post this to the Amanda Palmer thread???

He apparently has never opened that thread.

Bingo.

simple simon met a gaiman going to his third home to spread some rona..

Though I'd never opened a Neil Gaiman thread till now.

he writes those shit comics that aren't viz or beano!

lol if you can call that writing

I watched about half of season 1 of American Gods and it was some insufferable shite that even the great Ian McShane couldn't ameliorate with his fine presence.

I liked Good Omens and Neverwhere, have given up on everything I've looked at since then, including American Gods which I found not of interest from any angle.

It's easy to criticise but who among us can honestly say they wouldn't feel inclined to fly 11,000 miles to get out of being locked up with A. Palmer?

New Zealand maybe not a great place to go to patch up a rocky relationship.

xp a guy who chose to marry Amanda Palmer and have a child with her?

We actually have the answer to that and it is no.

Fun fact: the Gaelic name for the Isle of Skye is An t-Eilean Sgitheanach.

I'm sure Neil Gaiman speaks it like a native... a native of Hampstead, that is.

I bitched about this on the Amanda palmer thread. Theres no hospital for a couple hundred miles for the inhabitants of Skye and little reason for them to get covid without outsiders coming in

Who would have thought some rich entitled London wanker who 'loves Skye more than anything' could be that selfish?

Runrig are from Skye, if he could take out one or two of them with his London diseases it'll all have been worth it.

think yr more of a londoner than he is, tom -- he grew up in east grinstead (parents = scientologists) , living there on and off till 1987, then moved to wisconsin in the early 90s

Runrig also appear in the Duolingo Gaelic course pretty early on, probably before Skye.

(xp) A Sassenach incomer all the same.

that i will not deny

Reminds me, I work with a guy from the Canary Islands who told me their nickname for mainland Spaniards is 'los Godos', the Goths.

I've been listening to the Sandman audio drama on Audible and it's...not bad, I guess? I don't listen to audio-books much as my attention span with these things is pretty abysmal. But some chapters have been enjoyable, in particular the Dr Destiny storyline. The episode set in the diner was creepy was fuck.

Can't say I care much for Death's voice actress. I know the character is meant to be quirky and upbeat, but she sounds far too high-pitch squeaky (I actually thought it was Kristen Schall for a minute) and a bit one-note. It's too bad, as aside from her the "Sound of Her Wings" episode was done really well.

Creepy as fuck

Didn't know this existed. Kristen Schall might actually be a good Death!

Schall would have more range, I'd reckon. I'll give Dennings another chance when the next Death story comes up, she might improve.

The second part of the audio series is out. They actually went ahead and cast Schall as Delirium, so in any scene where she interacts with Death (Kat Dennings), the two are impossible to tell apart! Still, Season of Mists and A Game of You are two of my favourite extended Sandman stories, so this should be good.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00120cb

^ Desert Island Discs from earlier in the month

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4JQZ297tX36CzL1JSkQHy4D/nine-things-we-learned-from-neil-gaimans-desert-island-discs

and that link seems to be the bones of the talking.

Anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWJTB6FPVaA

looks good enough

though there is a slight element of cheapness about it that seems unavoidable in every Gaiman adaptation for some reason

it's an issue with clive barker as well. something about british horror/fantasy.

akm
Posted: November 5, 2016 at 8:52:29 AM

did that not happen?

lol

(Candyman seems perfectly suited to its budget fwiw imo)