A Dangerous Method -- David Cronenberg/Viggo Mortensen's latest

It's like the counterweight to Burton/Depp these days. Anyway, the film's based on Christopher Hampton's play about Freud and Jung, and it was going to be Christoph Waltz as Freud but he's doing something else now so...

Viggo Mortensen, who worked so memorably with Cronenberg on Eastern Promises, has just replaced Waltz. Mortensen will star as Freud opposite Michael Fassbender as Jung. Keira Knightley will play Sabina, a disturbed young woman brought to see Jung by her father. Jung and Sabina have an affair, and the producers are promising me “lots of spirited sex”. (Viggo had that other spirited sex scene with Maria Bello in Cronenberg's A History Of Violence.)

DC&Viggo > Leo DiC & MS > Burton & his lovers.

Er, I wouldn't call that sex scene in A History of Violence "spirited", "disturbing" more like.

Mortensen is great, of course, but he's such a physical actor, it's hard to imagine him as Freud.

Freud beating up Jung in a Swiss spa, it could happen.

"Sometimes a cigar...well, anyway."

Mortensen is great, of course, but he's such a physical actor, it's hard to imagine him as Freud.

Did you see Eastern Promises? The best parts of his performance were the stillest.

I haven't seen that, but what I meant is that it's hard for me to imagine him playing a wordy intellectual like Freud. He seems to be best at playing tight-lipped, no-nonsense type of guys.

Your imagination is underdeveloped, then.

you've spoken with freud?

@tuomas

Mortensen is great, of course, but he's such a physical actor, it's hard to imagine him as Freud.

but he has a great, rangy beard.

that was a dumb move by waltz btw.

how could he just waltz away from such an opportunity >:(

how can you say that unless you know what he chose instead amtrst

wait didn't the article say he chose to play another nazi?

or at least, one of the articles i read said that.

Er, I wouldn't call that sex scene in A History of Violence "spirited", "disturbing" more like.
― Tuomas, Tuesday, March 9, 2010 6:40 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

don't forget the awesome 69 scene.

Gotta rewatch me some History of Violence

<3 maria bello in cheerleader outfit

I remembered the 69 scene, but when the article mentioned that sex scene in AHoV, I assume it means the, er, more memorable scene.

Cronenberg brought his wife on set & had sex in front of Viggo & Maria to show them how to act that scene out.

it's hard to imagine him as Freud

Well, no stranger than the last movie star to play him, M. Clift (still haven't seen that one)

Cronenberg brought his wife on set & had sex in front of Viggo & Maria to show them how to act that scene out.

― How to Make an American Quit (Abbott), Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:19 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

wut

i read that too somewhere

O_O uhhhhhhh woah

I need to watch AHoV again too

keep thinking this is some kind of spoken-word covers project

Oh wtf, AHOV is $7.99 on amazon.com for the blu-ray version. I think I own most of the other recent Cronenberg films because at the prices they sell for I can't afford to *not* buy them.

i thought abbott was making a funny

damn dude

Cronenberg brought his wife on set & had sex in front of Viggo & Maria to show them how to act that scene out.
― How to Make an American Quit (Abbott), Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:19 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

wut

― nitzer ebbebe (gbx), Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:32 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i read that too somewhere

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, March 11, 2010 9:33 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

i think it's in the audio commentary on the DVD. and all concerned relate the story somewhat nonchalantly.

I think once you're around Cronenberg long enough, that's probably one of the least out-there things he'd do. Or say.

lol I thought Abbot was joking too but... well it does seem like the kind of thing Cronenberg would do

i saw an interview with m bello where she was on a righteous tear about the double standard in movie ratings; kill a shitload of people and you can get pg13, show a woman having an orgasm and it's straight to R (i think this was her part in the cooler that happened to?)

but then it's like her entire career after that has been to prove that point

Cronenberg and his wife did the same thing when they were technical advisers on The Room.

The comment on this article is priceless

looooooollll

Maybe Dr. Ilsa should have cameo in her son's new movie?

Maybe Dr. Ilsa should have cameo in her son's new movie?

LOL

Title change.

that's silly, what was wrong with the original title?

A Dangerous Method sounds like a sequel to A Beautiful Mind.

seriously!

"Extraordinary Measures" was recently taken, you see.

A Dangerous Method

ugh. i agree that "talking cure" isn't going to lure them in (sounds like an art film) but this title just plain sucks. oh well, if the movie's good i won't much care. too bad "analyze this!" was taken.

there shd be legislation against filming non-anglo stories in english

why? who cares? lots of great movies not made in the "correct" language.

they're always in these terrible affected 30s english accents or in this instance probably guttural sturm und drang histrionics, as soderbergh said (re 'che') it's a lot easier to get financing this way but it always suggests a sort of cultural imperialism or at least laziness

freud and to a lesser extent jung are canonical figures within that austro-german tradition, freud has a very distinctive literary voice

it's cool in something like 'time bandits' but given cronenberg's 'deeply serious treatment of the subject' it will probably jar, though of course if it doesn't bother you then good for you! i didn't mind too much in polanski's 'the pianist', anyway

You can use deeply serious accent stereotypes to convey things too, though. I think framing a film in austro-german stereotypes and perceptions from a North American viewpoint could be just as serious, if not more so.

but it always suggests a sort of cultural imperialism

often but not always. lots of french films (in french) about italians and vice-versa. chinese films about vietnam, etc. it just sort of happens. agreed that the "middle" solution--having characters speak english but in german/french/italian/polish/whatever accents--can be irritating/distracting. but i sympathize with directors faced w/ this problem, there's no real good solution short of pulling an inglorious basterds and having people speak french and german for 2/3 of the movie.

john mctiernan was a bit obsessed w/ this and found unique formal workarounds in most of his films.

there's no real good solution short of pulling an inglorious basterds and having people speak french and german for 2/3 of the movie.

there's yr solution! if a costly picture like that can do it then it lessens the excuse

and as said, cultural imperialism is the strong form but often it just seems slovenly in a film depicting historical events in supposed verisimilitude

and as you say there are workarounds, like they could pretend the girl was english rather than russian, hardly the greatest mistruth! freud spoke english and probably jung too....

that's clearly not a very good idea but anything to avoid keira knightly speaking middlebrow english theatre dialogue in smudged mitteleuropa inflections

but mctiernan would do stuff like zoom into the mouth of sean connery speaking russian and zoom out and bam! he's speaking english. like by acknowledging the artifice he would forestall all complaints.

http://chud.com/articles/content_images/5/freudbird.jpg

http://www.kinogallery.com/kino/kinogallery.com_dangerousmethod_shot_2.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ7JKmcLTsI

i cant believe waltz turned this down to do water for shitty-ass stupid elephants - otoh we're probably richer for having a movie where viggo plays freud - so stoked for this

fuck this jane austen bullshit

more "therapy" spankings, less enigmatic closeups or i'm claiming ghost-directed

its a general audiences trailer, iirc eastern promises had a horrible trailer too - i have no doubt that cronenberg is gonna go ham on this material

fast bind her indeed

fuck this jane austen bullshit

― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:48 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

you're my sworn enemy

oh i definitely want him to, dont get me wrong. dude is basically my fave working english-lang director.

So three Viggo movies in a row?

It's like the counterweight to Burton/Depp these days.

so OTM

also nice to see an actor/director pairing that actually WORKS instead of this Scorsese/DiCaprio, Burton/Depp, Spielberg/Cruise bullshit

also

I R EXCITED

four in a row if he does go ahead and make eastern promises 2 then

It originally wasn't meant to be a Viggo Vehicle, he just came on board when Christoph Waltz turned down the Freud role... i assume we will all be richer for this

no wait i forgot he's making cosmopolis next

four in a row if he does go ahead and make eastern promises 2 then

hes been ruining traffic on my street shooting a don delillo adaptation w/ the dude from twilight for the last month

a friend of mine tells this good viggo story that ends with some woman screaming I'M THE ONE WHO WAKES UP NEXT TO VIGGO'S STIFF DICK EVERY MORNING OK

haha yeah see above. remembered after i posted. dude from twilight is the only possible way to step down from colin farrell so idk about this

xpost Was that a boast or complaint?

Maybe Viggo is a lucky charm at this point, as the last two got Cronenberg more mainstream cred than his last few before that. Dude's gunning for Oscars ...

if cronenberg was gonna do any delilo he shoulda done running dog

think she was in the middle of an argument between viggo n someone else and was asked to take sides, everyone in the room got really quiet after that

kinda hoping Cronenberg returns to sci-fi/horror at some point tbh, although he has definitely been on a good streak lately

i mean its about porn starring hitler. surely that has to punch all the cronenbergian buttons at once.

didn't know he was doing Cosmopolis, reading the casting history is bizarre (from colling farrel/marion cotillard to robert pattinson/keira knightly to pattingson/Juliette Binoche?)

sorry for all the extra gs

kiera knightley? really?

works for me http://i.imgur.com/i2WnO.gif

viggo seems like a bro but the kinda bro where youd have to tell him you need some sleep 36 hours into a brodown weekend when he's still raring to discuss spinoza and carve a mountain flute out of goat horn.

but he's probably play you a lullaby on his mountain flute so it's all good

i can't see why they didn't go with something simple like spanking miss knightley

no. 1 sign this is going to go HAM: her accent

okay the spank scene where dude is windmilling like she's a guitar = lol

david cronenberg's "daddy issues"

david cronenberg's "daddy day care"

Would be better if Fassbender wore the Magneto helmet and cape.

As long as it's better than Phil Kaufman's "Quills," I'll be happy enough.

viggo seems like a bro but the kinda bro where youd have to tell him you need some sleep 36 hours into a brodown weekend when he's still raring to discuss spinoza and carve a mountain flute out of goat horn.
― strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:29 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

ha! he is indeed a bro.

the kinda bro where youd have to tell him you need some sleep 36 hours into a brodown weekend when he's still raring to discuss spinoza and carve a mountain flute out of goat horn

this is awesome in conception, but i do not believe in such bros

having watched the making-of features on the lotr dvds -- "let's not go back to our hotels and camp out and watch the sunrise!" "but viggo we have a 6 am makeup call tomorrow." "aw come on, i'll kill, skin, and cook a goat by hand if that sways yr vote" -- i believe it to be true.

Let's not forget bro sired a child with Exene Cervanka.

man christoph walz, what a dumbass

remember viggo on fox news w/kucinich during election season?

man christoph walz, what a dumbass

no, Christoph Waltz, what a dumb original choice.

wd've played like a Martin Short SCTV sketch w/out laughs

so M. Butterfly is the only other time DC adapted a play?

s'okay. its real biopic-y, which i wasnt expecting and i think weakened the movie. the final shot is the same as the final shot in eastern promises. i liked viggo best in it

loved a history of violence, but am starting to have serious doubts about act III cronenberg

its real biopic-y,

I found this very much NOT so!

ppl got on Knightley's case, and she's uneven, but it's the toughest of the 3 principle parts. Viggo is a v funny gameplaying daddy Freud.

Hope to see this within the week. I'd have to go all the way back to Dead Ringers for a film I loved, but I continue to hold out high expectations for every one. (Part of the problem, no doubt.)

Liked this a lot. Knightley's role is indeed the trickiest but I love the way Cronenberg puts her most extreme bits of performance conspicuously in center frame, with her positioned closer to us than Fassbender, as if to say: "deal with it."

http://www.torontostandard.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/freud-jung.jpg
(l-r) Young Freud, Young Jung

yeah, knightley's role is really tough. i thought it was a really game, even brave performance, even if it didnt always work.

this is a really good interview that fleshes out some of the movies themes:

http://somecamerunning.typepad.com/some_came_running/2011/11/an-interview-with-david-cronenberg.html

Anyone thought this thing was too short? I didn't feel the supposed warmth between the two men. Also: some of the cuts were inexplicable. Why did Hampton and Cronenberg make such a fuss about the trip to America only to film two scenes aboard ship? Why are we told the two men's friendship frayed when we're barely introduced to them?

It was vintage 1904 Viennese warmth. Like frozen hot chocolate.

for those who care about such things, Viggo wuz robbed of a nomination.

they preferred the psychological depths of a Jonah Hill capturing the essence of someone who never existed

a lady sitting behind me yelped out 'WHAT???' when the last scene ended, so i think she was expecting more too. i think the thing is that the material doesnt feel particularly dramatized, i wanted something with more juice

the America thing... yeah when they were boarding the ship i was expecting/hoping they'd do more with that. i thought all the exchanges between freud and jung were very good. maybe one of the two main relationships should've been foregrounded more to really do justice to either of them

thought this was mostly excellent, though it does hit the fast forward button a bit too much. all of the leads were good, especially viggo, who fuckin' nailed it as freud.

vigo was great, though as a friend of mine said, it would have been pretty dope if they had casted kelsey grammer and david hyde pierce as freud and jung respectively

lol

its real biopic-y,

I found this very much NOT so!

― Dr Morbois de Bologne (Dr Morbius), Sunday, January 15, 2012 2:20 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i thought this was happily un-biopic-y. agree re: fleshing some stuff out more but i get the sense there was an attempt to stay true to the source material (which was prob lacking in this capacity).

in a lot of ways it's a slight movie but i think it will stick with me, for the acting and for how earnest it was in attempting to actually talk about ideas and stuff.

keira's performance was noticeably high-effort but i liked it--enjoyed how she seemed like she was teetering on the edge right up to the final scene.

in a lot of ways it's a slight movie but i think it will stick with me, for the acting and for how earnest it was in attempting to actually talk about ideas and stuff.

― call all destroyer, Friday, February 10, 2012 2:33 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm

I guess "slight" carries a different meaning for me after reading about how enchanting The Artist is for 2 months, while ADM struggles to get seen.

You're being defensive. It's the definition of a good minor movie.

nah, I doubt I saw a dozen better last year.

A minor movie can still make a year-end list; you've included lots of films to which you've given mild positive reviews over the years.

this probably would've been my favorite movie when i was 19. it just came out too late...

is ADM really struggling to get seen?

also, what does it have to do with 'the artist'

ADM is at the local multiplex now, which is better than I thought it would get. Awards not responding though.

the artist is doing well because it's a friendly movie that had an ENORMOUS media push from the beginning. i mean, how many movie ads do you see on TV anymore, much less for a foreign film?

i get the feeling ADM has gotten minimal support from its distributor.

i have no idea what to expect from this one. i'm kind of dreading it.

is the artist actually doing well? i heard something on npr that implied that it wasn't

It isn't really, no.

Considering the number of theatres its in and the marketing push it has gotten, that is.

well it's made more money than most foreign films make in the US, that's for sure.

they are certainly pushing it really hard, though. like nothing i've ever seen actually, in terms of films that seemed destined for "art houses."

btw in industry parlance the multiplexes that reserve a few screens for "offbeat" fare like ADM are called "smart houses" (get it?) -- basically your standard multiplex but in a bit city or a town with lots of people with college degrees.

i get the feeling ADM has gotten minimal support from its distributor.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, February 9, 2012 11:40 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark

well they clearly wish it was a different movie from the one cronenberg made

i have no idea how the artist is being pushed, i guess i dont really care? it seems like such a silly movie for self-confessed cinephiles to get upset about. i mean its a very slight and not that great movie, but if people really want to get excited about a black-and-white, silent french film... it is kind of not the worst thing to happen?

welcome back to ilx bro

*glances meaningfully at half-unpacked suitcase*

I think my colleague who put The Artist on his Ten Worst list wd disagree w/ you, bro.

Both ADM and The Artist are foreign films. One just had the belching power of H Weinstein behind it.

ADM's North American gross to date is $4.6 M; The Artist is $20.6, and I figure it might reach 45-50 with the Oscar win.

slocki, i don't have an opinion on the artist as movie -- i haven't seen it. i was just saying that it's being marketed real aggressively, which doesn't reflect on the film one way or the other.

lol putting the artist on a 10 worst list is exactly the kind of meta-snobby critical overreaction i'm talking about

seeing this on Tuesday

lol @ calling ADM a "foreign" film

its about foreigners

the artist from what i hear is basically kinda like good-natured semi-parody of silent films in a way, like the oss films are of spy thrillers? problem w/films that are "not bad" or "pretty good" getting huge critical acclaim is that then people feel the need to overcorrect and call them crimes against cinema or w/e, when if they'd just remained under the radar they wouldn't catch the vitriol w/o a doubt.

iMdB (which goes by where the production companies are based):

Country: UK | Germany | Canada | Switzerland

xxp

The Artist isn't even entertaining at a basic level. I kept watching and thinking, "When's this thing gonna start?"

"from what I hear"

the Ten Worst guy genuinely loathed The Artist before all the awards hoopla took off. Once in awhile you might believe people mean what they say, CYNICS.

financed entirely outside of the US = foreign for Hollywood's purposes

reminds me that the oscars, etc. really aren't about film, but about hollywood's perception of film

i probably shouldn't pass judgment on something b4 i see it, tru : /

financed entirely outside of the US = foreign for Hollywood's purposes

so Woody Allen makes foreign films now?

sort of! One of the production companies listed for Midnight in Paris are basically "his," it is US-based. All the others seem to be Spanish.

Gravier Productions
Mediapro
Pontchartrain Productions
Televisió de Catalunya (TV3)
Versátil Cinema

Sony distributes him only.

i probably shouldn't pass judgment on something b4 i see it, tru : /

― omar little, Friday, February 10, 2012 12:08 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and yet you're totally correct...

its hard to say with just financing tho, esp when so many movies are criss-crossing intl copros these days

then again, midnight in paris isnt even set in the US, so you may have a point

The Artist isn't even entertaining at a basic level. I kept watching and thinking, "When's this thing gonna start?"

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, February 10, 2012 12:02 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

do you hate delightful dogs

when youve seen them do the exact same stuff in entertaining comedies from the '20s and '30s, maybe.

Jung shd've had a cute dog, that wd've produced "buzz."

The Artist is one dog that's not delightful.

i do concur that ADM would have benefited from canine sidekicks for all three main characters

The Artist is one dog that's not delightful.

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, February 10, 2012 12:23 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oof.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn72/sampatchley/itstinks.gif

Hahaha

The Artist is one dog that's not delightful.

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, February 10, 2012 12:23 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oof.

― the jazz zinger (s1ocki), Friday, February 10, 2012 12:24 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark

I think you mean woof.

that dog won't hunt

really enjoyed ADM and didn't find it biopic-ey at all btw! loved the pacing here and the same goes for just about all of cronenberg's movies. they always seem to have a natural, gradual build and generally don't overstay their welcome.

re: his movies being concise or at least not rambling, according to Christopher Hampton, Croney likes his scripts to be exactly 97 pages long, without exception. (Hampton's last draft was something like 115, till Cronenberg got his hands on it, and got it down to...97.)

Frankly, what was happening btwn Freud and Jung was not going to change in America. Nothing to see there.

re: the 97 thing
lol Cronenberg the 5 percenter

cronenberg otm

97 page thing is hilarious

CW is a minute of film per page

wish more directors followed that rule

Cronenberg himself hasn't written an original script in age.

*ages

i want to live at the Jung's house

Jungs'

you'd end up a freudned jungster.

not at the same time as them obviously. I'd keep the boat though

peter sarsgaard was so hot in this

wait what

I missed him!

i'm pretty sure he wasn't in it

yeah he wasn't

following up from the screenplay thing - for the curious, recent Cronenberg runtimes:

ADM: 94
Eastern Promises: 100
History of Violence: 96
Spider: 98
eXistenZ: 97
Crash: 100/90 (depending on the cut)

also liked how sabina was the only character who wasn't reprehensible, the the movie didn't ask you to condone the boys' behavior, but you could empathize with them because shit is complicated

xp oh god i meant uhhh fassbender

he just couldn't cut a minute of that bathhouse fight

Mrs. Jung wasn't reprehensible. She wasn't much anything though (except v. pretty)

Yeah. She was very much in the Edith Wharton-Joseph Roth vein.

I see from imdb she's also playing the wife in Cosmopolis

dudes "foreign film" is code for "foreign language" film. that's why you don't see british heritage films in the foreign section at video stores.

as for the artist, it does kind of scuttle this classification scheme. which is probably one reason the weinstein's figured they could market it heavily -- it doesn't really present itself as "foreign" in the same was as even "girl w/ dragon tattoo" or whatever.

what language is it in again?

is that a joke? isn't it 95% silent -- are the few words spoken dubbed into english for the american release?

i guess what i mean by biopic-y is, not in the sense of being flabby or histrionic, but just the problem when you're doing a movie about real peoples lives - real life isnt particularly dramatized, stops and starts in weird places, etc. a lot of people have lived fascinating lives but they dont always make for good drama

Cronenberg himself hasn't written an original script in age.

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, February 10, 2012 4:40 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

*ages

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, February 10, 2012 4:40 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

he's always aggressive about shaping the scripts at the preproduction stage, though

and as a guy who thinks very nearly every movie made these days needs to have 20 minutes lopped off, i love crones for bein a nazi about this - but at the same time i think ADM should've been longer!

when i hear something is biopic-y, i think of a film constructed really episodically that doesn't have a clear through-line. in other words, it kind of squanders a shapely narrative in favor of a (not necessarily historically accurate) series of "representative" episodes or scènes à faire.

good examples would be coal miner's daughter (which is not a bad movie, although it starts off really strong and then gets more boring as it goes on) or control (which is a terrible movie).

i don't get the sense that ADM is biopic-y in this sense.

its not

it doesnt have any scenes that are like WHATS UP FREUD YOU WON THE BIG PSYCHIATRY AWARD

interior restaurant. freud, wearing a bib, is working on a plate of brisket while his wife sips a glass of wine. freud's erstwhile protegé, CARL JUNG, enters from the left background. he spies freud, and walks up to him.

HANS BLOOM: mr freud, i just wanted to congratulate you on having changed the way that we understand human motivation.

FREUD puts down his utensils and reaches up to wipe his mouth with a napkin.

FREUD: [clears throat] why thank you, carl jung, my erstwhile protegé. i hear you are currently working on a theory of psychotherapy that departs from my model. i am not happy about this

JUNG looks startled....

haha whoops i typed HANS BLOOM b/c i started with another scenario.

i can't even type a bad parody well.

Music cue: BAD TO THE BONE

montage that alternates between increasingly wacky therapy sessions with jung and freud

Music cue: I FEEL GOOD

that ends w/ jung and patient parachuting out of a hot-air balloon floating over vienna while freud watches through a pair of binoculars from his office window.

at the end of the montage, freud tosses the binoculars down in envy.

FREUD: damn you, jung! damn you.

Music cue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bslSxYwgwlE

I've never seen Huston's Freud w/ Monty, phaps this wd fulfill yr needs

yeah that is horrible by reputation

this was a nice little movie, felt very restrained and tightly constructed for the most part. Knightly kinda overdoes it in her first few scenes imho, Cronenberg must've really egged her on to be that cartoonish. Viggo's Freud is hilarious, genuine lolz at the "that's a very protestant remark" line. Also appreciated how all the characters are so transparently self-serving (Otto Gross most of all, obviously).

also lolz @ s1ocki/amateurist re-write upthread, well done

Viggo's Freud is hilarious, genuine lolz at the "that's a very protestant remark" line.

otm.

a lot of reviews have kind of missed how funny this movie is (in that dry, cronenbergian sort of way)

kind of true for most cronenberg flicks, but yea

https://twitter.com/MaxTundra/statuses/169727818966646785

haha

ppl don't recognize any sort of comedy 'higher' than Seth Rogen

On a side note: the funny part about rewatching The Dead Zone is Christopher Walken kissing a woman.

def found myself chuckling throughout. true the comedy is dry, but it's driven by the underlying premise of a lot of comedy: deluded characters struggling under the weight of their delusions

I chuckled every time Viggo indolently gazed at Fassbender through tortoise eyelids, elongating unexpected words.

whoever said Viggo should've gotten an oscar nom over Jonah Hill was otm

Viggo def the best of the three leads here

i enjoyed this a fair bit, respected it more, found it intermittently gripping. knightley didn't bother me; in fact i thought she was good. viggo is just virtuosic. michael fassbender is a beautiful man. i liked that the film was unashamed of both its theatrical origins and its intellectual content. i probably would have been more compelled if i didn't find psychoanalysis, of the freudian or jungian bent, to be hopelessly flaky. but the interpersonal dynamics b/t the characters were fairly heady, even though just when they started to ramify i feel like the film sort of lost clarity.

for most of the movie, esp. the 1st half, i was compelled just by the beauty and efficiency of cronenberg's late style. crisp, judicious editing, no-fuss mise en scene, interesting use of the split-field diopter. a pleasure to watch, basically.

this film was really dumped by its distributor. it only played for one week here, on half a screen (= twice a day, so 14 screenings in toto).

It finally made it to multiplexes here but didn't last long. It's stint in the arthouses was longer and early. I imagine once it got snubbed by the Oscars they didn't want to spend the money to push it.

amateurist otm. Brevity is the soul of something or other in late Cronenberg.

My own reservations about Knightley's hysterics disappeared after a few minutes (I didn't know who she was until I saw the credits; I'd forgotten she was in it).

it was pretty obv by mid-December that this film was going to be ignored in the trophy wars, its only shot at a prolonged theatrical run. Anyway, look fwd to rewatching on disc. xxp

they gave him this one. Pattinson next

for most of the movie, esp. the 1st half, i was compelled just by the beauty and efficiency of cronenberg's late style. crisp, judicious editing, no-fuss mise en scene, interesting use of the split-field diopter. a pleasure to watch, basically.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:39 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

really feeling this, and i watched eastern promises recently and felt it there too. it's just so nice to watch someone who knows what he's doing.

yeah, sometimes i'd just think, "yeah, that's exactly where he needed to cut."

what's interesting is i don't think cronenberg is a "natural" filmmaker in the sense of like godard or someone who just gets his hands (not literally) on a camera and immediately knows exactly what the fuck he's doing. his early films can be clumsy, sloppy, or just undistinguished stylistically in a way that blunts the power of the (undeniably compelling) stories and themes. but as he's moved along his stylistic palette (sp?) has gotten smaller and his decisions more and more thoughtful and just right. he's always been a restrained, un-flashy director, but his hand has just become surer and surer. i first noticed this around crash and spider (i don't like spider much, but the style is sublimely controlled).

what did people think about the digitally composited boat scenes?

i dunno, i just wanted the boat

have you ever considered the possibility that the boat is the penis?

sometimes a boat...

sometimes a boat iirc

did I mention already on this thread how much I enjoyed freud's office - amazing art direction

Why is Viggo not in Cosmopolis?

i mean he could have been the limo driver or something

i know i want these dudes to make movies together until theyre both really old

cronenberg is already pushing into oldness, but he looks good for his age (68 i think).

and yes re. art direction. the contrast b/t jung's office (and home) and freud's home was effective, i think. it rhymed with the way freud accuses of jung of being a hypocrite for proclaiming his normalcy so loudly while being as fucked up as anyone else.

i think the last third of the movie could have actually used an extra 10–15 minutes just to clarify the evolving dynamics b/t the three main characters.

oh wow i didn't realize he was that old

he's been doin' it for 35-40 years after all

more than 40. first quasi-feature was in 1969.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo_(film)

yeah I saw Stereo, didn't recall the year

i don't think 'dry' is the word, because it was very glossy, but i found this so stifling. & i thought keira was really good, but that how expressive or affecting she could be was limited because it was so leaden. i just didn't understand why the veneer of formality was totally necessary, like the scene on the ferry. someone says something charged & a bassoon blows & a piano tinkles for a moment. i felt like i was reading the novelisation of a film, it was so piecemeal, so ornate. i enjoyed the freudian psych 101 but that was the only register in which it connected for me, as a kinda didactic learning appendix rather than as an engaging or cinematic portrait.

did I mention already on this thread how much I enjoyed freud's office - amazing art direction

― the jazz zinger (s1ocki), Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:12 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark

yea totes

what did people think about the digitally composited boat scenes?

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:08 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark

you mean jung's boat?

no when they take the boat to america

"jung's boat" sounds like an indie band from 1988

freud's pipe

otto's ladder

i liked this it was pretty good. i feel i'll have to rewatch because on reflection my judgement of keira knightley's performance was probably unfairly tinted by the ott-ness of the first few scenes where her jaw was doing all the acting. it felt a bit slight and maybe wasn't quite fleshed out enough to work as a character study, but as biopics go i'd rather have scenes of p unfiltered psychoanalytic chat for some reason than scene after scene of expository ~major events~.

so Viggo's next role is as William Burroughs/Old Bull Lee in On the Road...?

i think the exaggerated quality of knightley's performance in the first reel was calculated -- it demonstrates how far she's progressed thanks (in part) to her sessions w/ jung. and it allows her to play her later scenes a bit "wiggy" without seeming too mannered -- since she then seems positively normal compared to those first scenes.

Was going to see this in Memphis today, but we're going to stick close to home while the ugly weather passes through the area, and go tomorrow instead.

YOUR CHILDREN ARE GLORIOUS

this was good but i never got a handle on what was keeping the spark alive between jung and spielrein, which is a shame because it's the pivot of the whole movie

i also didn't really buy her as a gifted thinker, which it seems the real spielrein was

****SPOILERS AND SHIT****

i agree with your first point. i cringed a bit when jung delivered the money line, "you're the only one i've ever truly loved." i don't mind that it's, as they say in these parts, on the nose. but it does seem to reduce a fairly complex and ambiguous story into something a bit too neat. there's no way to know whether we're to take that pronouncement as definitive, but seeing as it's stuck in the ultimate scene it's hard to know what else to do w/ it.

btw i don't know if that quote is verbatim but it's not far off.

felt like this movie needed a narrower focus to avoid feeling shallow in its approach to everything - is it a movie about psychoanalysis, or a romance between jung & spielrein, or an account of jung & freud's friendship, or a jung biopic...? i dont think it really does justice to any of these elements

the freud/jung stuff was most interesting to me

me too, cuz freud was by far the most fascinating character in the movie

i did kind of enjoy the sort of... confused and sour note it ended on with jung sitting there. which made a genuinely interesting contrast with the "whatever happened to..." titles before the credits.

do you think that's just b/c of viggo's general charisma and awesomeness or do you think it was a more interestingly written character?

xpost

YES

That Freud is the more interesting writer and thinker, in my judgment, comes through in Viggo's perf.

i think the jung character comes across by far as the least self-possessed, or maybe we could say having the least self-knowledge of the three. at the same time he's not nearly as enigmatic as freud, who seems to see through everything.

everyone looked v nice in the movie, excellent interior decore, good clothes, vv strage performance by keira knightley

think everyone likes the Freud/Jung stuff the best. Might not have been quite as interesting if it was the whole movie though. It's a perfect role for Viggo really, he can just pop up occasionally smirking and waving his cigar around and put the other actors in the shade

the end shot w/jung sitting there immediately brought to mind the final shot of eastern promises

i think i mentioned this already but a woman behind me yelped out 'WHAT??' when it went to black on that shot

'NO!!!!'

POOP!

yeah it felt early, like there was something else to come. nothing was resolved!

it moved along very quickly for a 100-minute movie, didn't it?

nothing was resolved!

just like psychotherapy amirite? and a full 100-minute session.

I would love to see more movies that happen in an early 20c medical environment. That whole era of leather straps and brass plates is horrifying and amazing.

Thought this was quite good. As I've mentioned on this and other threads, I haven't liked a Cronenberg film since Dead Ringers. I remember reading an interview with him sometime in the '90s, and it was like he'd developed a chip on his shoulder in terms of the industry and the general public not properly appreciating his films--not a good position from which an artist to do his work, if you ask me. Maybe some of the accolades for A History of Violence (didn't like it) and Eastern Promises (didn't see it) helped him move past that, I don't know, but it felt like he was really in control here. My knowledge of the principals and the subject matter is very basic, and that probably helped--someone who knows more might find inaccuracies and simplifications. Cronenberg's an exceptionally smart guy, though, and I trust him to be careful about that. Keira Knightley should have been up for all the awards--there's a ferociousness to her performance that's very unsettling, especially in the early scenes (more muted but still present towards the end). Viggo Mortensen wasn't quite how I imagine Freud--more wry than severe--but he and Fassbender are good. The (brief) flagellation scenes were the only part of the film that struck me as obvious, but I suppose they have to be there. My favourite Cronenberg film is The Dead Zone; I'm probably the rare person who think he gets better when he reins it in a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uEBuqkkQRk

I'm probably the rare person who think he gets better when he reins it in a bit.

If I'm interpreting "reins it in" correctly, I'm with you. Reined-in Cronenberg: all the eighties films after Videodrome, Naked Lunch and the two most recent ones. M. Butterfly is where reined-in just looked like repression, however.

I should clarify that...He had a habit of sticking in really gross stuff past the point where I didn't think he needed it anymore: the ending of Videodrome (mostly excellent), the ending of The Fly (ditto), parts of Naked Lunch (not a fan). He reminded me of Husker Du trying to force hardcore onto Zen Arcade at a point where I didn't think they needed that anymore either. Again, most Husker Du fans disagree.

My favorite Mould project is Sugar so...

Those Husker Du folks had their moments.

http://www.criterion.com/current/posts/2193-notes-from-a-videodrome-test-screening

LOOOOOOL

"more plot"

Coming to this as someone who hasn't really seen what the fuss is about w/Cronenberg since Crash (and Videodrome as a film he won't better) things seem to be on the up again: liked Eastern Promises a lot and this was quite good. Never thought I'd say he'd be good at costume dramas but there you go.

Don't get the 'nothing ws resolved', and not sure it was the pont. Because like psychoanalysis at that point in time it left all the main actors in a state of flux, right? The discipline took off, but was it going to shake off its scpetics? It was developing its sidelines: child psychology on one end, its links to mysticism at the other; and attracting all sorts of 'characters', which was terrifically done by Cassel's Otto. The film sorta ended just in time, ws getting a tad bored with all the letters and it was clear that all relatinships weren't going anywhere except a link to the talking cure that they helped establish.

This is Keira's first great role. The early scenes were fine as someone desperate to tear her body apart than breathe a second longer, and she sorta maintained that edge in the tightly controlled scenes later on, as if she wasn't entirely cured. Terrific.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006PTL1GC/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2/186-7670710-2797121?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=0Y7Q6JXR7CTDM368YQ06&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_i=0679735801

Product Description
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otm? lol

hahahaha

I just watched it again -- it still holds up. Viggo is so droll.

just read DeLillo's Cosmopolis, can see why he was attracted -- limo full of screens and monitors, guy getting daily physicals, etc. An interesting challenge for adapting, as it's full of things that are difficult for actors to say naturally ("I want to bottle-fuck you with my sunglasses on"). Hope he left out the rap-star funeral procession tho.

they gave him this one. Pattinson next

We'll see, but I think there'll be many angry teen girls leaving this one.

arrrgh, guess I mistook this for DC general thread

Just saw this, and I thought it was okay. At first I was a but distracted how mannered everything was (for example, Freud's and Jung's breakup happening via letters), but then I realized that I've merely become used to Hollywood style biopics, where extra drama is always added to these kind of stories, so I began to like the movie's attempt to reconstruct events in a manner that was probably closer to how upper-class people interacted in the early 20th century. There's plenty of dramatic things going on, but appearances and manners must be kept; this kinda ties in with the movie's theme of how frankness in sexual matters disrupts the bourgeoise idyll.

However, I thought the biggest weakness in the movie was that it tried to focus both on the Jung-Spielrein and the Jung-Freud affair, and really, 100 minutes wasn't enough for both. For example, even though there are hints towards it, the Jung-Freud breakup still feels kinda unsubstantiated, as the movie doesn't sacrifice enough time for the events leading to it. I realize that one of these stories probably couldn't have been told without the other, but IMO the movie should've focused on just one of the two relations, and keep the other on the background.

Also, I found it kinda irritating that the movie seemed to support Jung's believe in the paranormal: first he predicts the wood in the shelf cracking, and in the final scene he seemingly foresees the 1st World War. Of course, both of these could've been just coincidences, but I'm not sure why the writer (or the director) felt it was necessary to add those scenes; the script could've simply stated this was one of the main differences between Jung and Freud without hinting that Jung was right. But maybe I just feel like this because I'm a sceptic, and sided with Freud on this issue?

I got the exact opposite impression, the film felt more stacked against Jung than anyone else

The point of the wood in the shelf cracking scene was more about how differently both men interpreted the same event, rather than showing either to be right about it. I suspect Cronenberg himself would side with Freud.

Well, in the wood cracking scene it felt like he was being a bit silly, but the last scene was clearly meant to imply he dreamed of WWI before it had started. Okay, IIRC the scene happened just months before the war broke, and that point in history there were already plenty of signs that something like that could happen, so I guess you could explain it by Jung simply guessing subconsciously that a war was coming, without any precognition... But whatever the explanation, it was obvious that Jung's dream was correct. So, unless it's a historical fact Jung had such a dream before WWI started, I'm not sure why it was added to the script?

(x-post)

The wood cracking scene was based on a real incident. The movie downplays Jung's eccentricities in favor of emphasizing his bourgeois Protestant stuffiness--in reality he had a life-long history of prophetic dreams and interest in mysticism before any of the the events portrayed in the movie.

this movie was so so boring

it was really bad

It's not top tier Cronenberg but I liked it as a pretty good Rohmer film.

wrong wrong and wrong

I saw it again when released on DVD about six weeks ago and still thought Viggo was marvelous though.

my admiration for this film grows the more time has passed.

i'm sure the rest of you will be sated by Fassbender's Ian Holm android tribute act, zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

so bittersweet being on morbs' side in an argument.

Morbz as usual can't resist questioning the motives of naysayers.

I think you mean so sunshine and lollipops. xp

I don't question, I de-CLARE

so bittersweet being on morbs' side in an argument

I actually love it the rare few times it happens.

y'all may be aging into wisdom

my first time I didn't recognize Keira Knightley

My first time wasn't with Keira Knightly.

My overall takeaway from this is Keira Knightly is really a terrible actress (also disturbingly emaciated too). That distraction aside I guess I might have really like it, but unfortunately she's on screen for like 60% of the film.

I liked this movie but I miss old body horror Cronenberg. There's a deleted scene on the AHOV DVD in which some gangster has a giant open, puffy, pulsating chest cavity wound with steam and crazy colored lights. And Cronenberg in the commentary for it says something like, "It was really 'Cronenberg'!" which is why he decided to excise it. Is this the last time we'll see such a thing? I like his new movies, too, but it makes me a little sad to think that stuff may never be in one of his movies again.

I liked all the fights between Freud and Jung played out through discussions of dreams, ancient deities, etc., and mannered ripostes to one another's letters.

I guess also I was the only one who thought Vincent Cassel was crazy hot (and also just crazy). He has great eyelids and nose!

nah I kept waiting for an afterdinner Freud-Jung grapple

The film should have been good (director, actors aside from Keira) but it was rather mediocre to be honest. Didn't help that I really loathe Freud. lol.

I liked this more than most. Mortenson was terrific. Top-notch passive-aggressive cigar-smoking.

And yes, Cassel was a blast.