new New Pornographers

http://www.matadorrecords.com/matablog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/new_pornographers.jpg

Together, new album out May 4th on Matador. Better album art this time around. Slightly more info here.

i almost missed this, looking forward to some new stuff.

If the "First Look Video" is any indication, this will be a rock record (i.e., not "power-pop"). It sounds good.

new song on matablog today

Good tune. Also, great cover!

so, theyre trying to go back to the Twin Cinema sound, but sadly, the new song isn't so good. the chorus is ok, but the verse...

01 Moves
02 The Crash Years
03 Your Hands (Together)
04 Silver Jenny Dollar
05 Sweet Talk, Sweet Talk
06 My Shepherd
07 If You Can't See My Mirrors
08 Up in the Dark
09 Valkyrie in the Roller Disco
10 A Bite Out of My Bed
11 Daughters of Sorrow
12 We End Up Together

those are some of the worst song titles i've ever heard

Valkyrie in the Roller Disco is quite good in a GBV sort of way..

i bet Daughters of Sorrow is a Destroyer tune

yeah, was going to guess from the titles which ones are Bejar's: Daughters of Sorrow definitely. Maybe Silver Jenny Dollar too.

i dig this new song, mostly as a statement of intent (i.e., "this is a rock album -- not challengers pt. II"). not their best, but better than the title track from twin cinema, actually.

but better than the title track from twin cinema, actually.

no way!!

Yeah, what the hell is this?

otm

one of those 'oh, they're still going' bands

i hope i'll be proved wrong, but the AC Newman songwriting formula now looks overused/out-of-date-so-00's now..

It's alright, we still have Twin Cinema--the only NP record I've heard in full, and the only record of theirs I'll probably ever need.

so 00s hahaha

but seriously I kinda had the same reaction, too.

xpost

"out-of-date" Newman-style powerpop >>>> 90% of new indie-fux0r shit

uh yeah, no kidding

sorry. finding a bigger fan than me of twin cinema, the album, would be hard. but the title song wasn't among my favorites, and i know it was one of the big ac newman "rock" songs on the disc, which is why hearing the new one brought the comparison to mind.

Twin Cinema (the album) for me was the apex of The New Pornographers as an idea. Supergroups, indie or otherwise, rarely live up to expectations. TNP's had done it on several songs before that, but the Twin Cinema album was absolutely phenomenal (even Carl's title track). Such a thing will probably never happen again, but it took me over a year to really appreciate Challengers... so what do I know.

challengers is better than it was given credit for. they didn't let the songs soar (i.e., they tried too hard to make a "mature album," but the songs themselves had lots of potential). i don't see why they couldn't equal or top twin cinema.

I really like Challengers, it's got some of their best tunes on it. I'd say each record has at least six stone-cold awesome tracks, so if they can keep the quality level up I'll be satisfied.

"out-of-date" Newman-style powerpop >>>> 90% of new indie-fux0r shit

Correct. I rate Electric Version slightly over Twin Cinema for sheer tunedom, though they're both crammed with splendidness. Challengers was not as consistently compelling, but has some really excellent songs, and IMHO "Adventures In Solitude" is probably the best song Newman has ever written.

I can't snark on a band that is responsible for the existence of "The Bleeding Heart Show."

yes. bleeding heart show and sing me spanish techo stand at the top of an album of amazing high-points.

Besides being strong from beginning to end, Twin Cinema was also paced really, really well. Opening with "Twin Cinema," closing with "Stacked Crooked"? Excellent.

Would have been a perfect record had they lopped off "Broken Beads" and "Three or Four," mind.

Also, I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere, but Challengers had some great outtakes - esp. "The Speed of Luxury" and "Fortune."

Would have been a perfect record had they lopped off "Broken Beads" and "Three or Four," mind.

so true. there's a stretch of semi-mediocre songs that do drag the album down a bit, but that's quibbling, given all the high-points -- twin cinema was my favorite album of the decade for a long time.

I like Three or Four a lot, you guys!

both those songs are awesome

meh.

At least Challengers was better than the last A.C. Newman album Get Guilty. That one never sunk in.

Heresy: All New Pornographers albums would be improved by the removal of Dan Bejar songs except "Jackie Dressed in Cobras" which is awesome.

All New Pornographers albums would be improved by the removal of Dan Bejar songs except "Jackie Dressed in Cobras" which is awesome.

^ this!

I really loved A.C. Newman's first solo album, I think that was released in '04

Never got Dan Bejar, honestly except for "To Wild Homes."

i hate destroyer but he's contributed 1-2 good songs to all the new pornos albums

!

Destroyer's Rubies is an excellent record, and 75% of Trouble in Dreams is also solid. "Libby's First Sunrise," the final track off the latter record, is probably one of my favorite songs of his.

this thread would have been perfect for you, ksh
Destroye's Rubies

didnt that get a 10 on pitchfork?

Apparently you thought the thread was "lol."

you supply the night, baby, i'll supply the lol

Let's make lots of money.

cad: 8.5

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/8970-destroyers-rubies/

didnt that get a 10 on pitchfork?

it would have, too, if you people hadn't ruined things with all your "thread comments."

Good record imo, but it's no Have One on Me, my record of the year, which I still haven't heard.

lol

;-)

All New Pornographers albums would be improved by the removal of Dan Bejar songs except "Jackie Dressed in Cobras" which is awesome.

OTM.

The Slow Wonder would be just behind EV as my fave NP or NP-related album. Get Guilty was below-par though, with some exceptions.

^ Get Guilty just doesn't have the sort of variety in the arrangements that you expect from a Newman project.

Nice to see I'm not the only one who doesn't like Bejar.

get guilty is awesome you are all crazy

i'm a guy who really likes twin cinema and electric version but i gotta say it's still all downhill from "my slow descent into alcoholism."

yeah I'm pretty happy with Get Guilty you wackjobs

whereas Challengers never really grabbed me aside from the title track which is impossibly good

Get Guilty is half great, has a few of his best tunes but quite a few that never grabbed me.

Get Guilty is all mediocre, to me. What song(s) on there are noteworthy?

Also, love Dan. The anti-Bejar sentiment in here is all out of wack.

Nothing--and I mean NOTHING--about "The Heartbreak Rides" is mediocre.

get guilty is a snooze imo

do all the bejar-in-new pornos haters like destroyer solo? i think i'm kind of weird in that i can't bring myself to give a shit about the new pornographers as a group, but really love their solo acts, destroyer being my favorite. j0rdan s is like this too iirc

Destroyer is ear poison to me.

cray-zee talk, seriously

I pretty well hate me some Destroyer, but I love Bejar's songs with the Pornos. Go figure.

good Get Guilty trax IMO:

Ten or Twelve Things
Heartbreak Rides
Hitman/Dancer
Thunderbolts
Days/Days Off

best Bejar trax w/ NPs:

Jackie
Jackie, Dressed in Cobras
Streets of Fire
Myriad Harbour
Balad of a Comeback Kid

"The Spirit of Giving" is win, too, no? Without or without the tongue in his cheek, that's a terrific song.

yeah I love that song too, but I don't suspect that's widely shared.

Also, love Dan. The anti-Bejar sentiment in here is all out of wack.

Srsly. "A Testament To Youth In Verse" is one of my very favorite NPs songs!

Also, when I saw them on the last tour in Cleveland, Dan was not with them, so they had Will Sheff from Okkervill River come out and do "Myriad Harbor" with them and it was great.

good Get Guilty trax IMO:

Ten or Twelve Things
Heartbreak Rides
Hitman/Dancer
Thunderbolts
Days/Days Off

these plus prophets, palace, the changeling, young atlantis, the collected works.

i know the arrangements are very straight pop/rock, but as a songwriter he was completely on fire.

Which tracks does Neko sing on the new one?

Re: Get Guilty: Thunderbolts, Prophets and The Heartbreak Rides are all excellent. Otherwise it's at best mildly diverting, at worst forgettable.

I'd probably mind Bejar less if the timbre of his voice didn't irritate the hell out of me.

I don't mind the timber - unless I happen to trip over it LOL - it's the quality of the songs that's the trouble, though now that someone mentioned it "The Spirit of Giving" is quite nice. His songs are decent enough, but to the vegetable samosa of Newman's best work, they are but a poppadam.

Looks like they may be about to slap their best album cover onto their worst album.

why would it be their worst album

I have little proof, just a morning's worth of dread.

do not despair.

Damn, I would have clicked on this thread earlier if I'd known we were all showing Dan Bejar what for. His voice disrupts the vibe of an album like no other.

http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/files/5361392.jpg

do all the bejar-in-new pornos haters like destroyer solo?

I've got Rubies. I like the Neil Young song at the end, but the preceding 11 David Bowie songs don't do much for me. (How's that for reductive dismissal?!)

I don't hate the Bejar NP songs, but I wouldn't miss them much if they weren't there.

bejar songs are usually the high points of NPs records imo ... not that I don't like the rest, but he is always welcome.

Get Guilty just doesn't have the sort of variety in the arrangements that you expect from a Newman project.

This is exactly it, I think. I'm relistening now, and there's some good stuff here (some of the choruses especially), but there's something really homogenous about it.

The production on tat record bothers me; way too much reverb.

*that

Does Neko sing lead on any of the songs off the new album?

i don't think anyone knows yet?

but i assume so as she appears on the album in some capacity

and that's how they've always done things

I hope they finally give Neko some fast ones to sing. Inexplicably, they haven't since Electric Version.

You are all crazy, bashing the Dan Bejar songs. Ballad Of A Comeback Kid is one of the best things they ever did.

I could have sworn I read somewhere that *all* of them play on every song on the album; that Carl Newman wanted to see if they could pull off doing it as a full band album rather than as a "through-the-post" thing. Maybe that was an original intention that didn't come to pass, though - I can't find a link anywhere.

I hope they finally give Neko some fast ones to sing. Inexplicably, they haven't since Electric Version.

she co-leads sing me spanish techno, and that's a fast song.

I want another solo Neko like All For Swinging You Around or Letter From an Occupant

I want an entire album of her singing songs like those.

^^^
otm

i'd be good with that too, but i love most the songs where she harmonizes with ac newman.

well, i'm sure ac newman would love that too, but it's not like great songs like those just happen ... in fact, i'd be willing to bet that he's set the bar so high with those (and a few other Neko rockers) that he's kinda cagy about following them up ...

Or he could admit she's the best singer in the band and let her improve everything by singing lead all of the time.

I like having her pop up on lead just a couple times per record - feels more like an "event." All Neko all the time would be too much of a good thing IMO.

I'd probably mind Bejar less if the timbre of his voice didn't irritate the hell out of me.

Ah, this brings me back to the days when I first heard a Bejar song on an NPs album and thought, "Where'd they find this guy and why are they letting him sing?" Fast-forward a few years and there are now at least two Destroyer albums that I prefer to any of the NP's work.

I'm still in the why do they let him sing camp.

Bejar always brings the laughs on these records. They would be kinda boring lyrically w/o him.

That dude was a drunken mess when I saw him live w/NP.

Bejar also brings the booze.

stage fright
xpost

tylerw summing up how i feel about bejar on the nps records. i like newman's lyrics but bejar is a great change of pace

I'd love some more Neko rockers too... BUT - the title track from the last record is stunning. Neko's performance is refreshingly understated on that song, to excellent effect. That whole album is underrated. I find myself coming back to that one more than Twin Cinema.

hm. well, even on twin cinema, case was doing more understated vocal work, e.g., streets of fire; bones ofa an idol; these are the fables.

True, but "Challengers" is better than those songs, I think.

who's harmonizing with ac newman on failsafe (from challengers)? i think it's the stand-in for neko case, who actually is also a terrific singer and compliments newman's voice well.

sorry -- she isn't a stand-in at this point, she's a permanent member of the band, i think.

I've got to give the last one more of a chance I guess. The only song I really liked on it was Myriad Harbour. Which means for 2 out of their 4 records, my favorite song was a Bejar one.

that was one of my least favorite songs on challengers. i know some people really dug-it, tho.

Kathryn Calder is the other woman in the band. I actually really love "Failsafe" too.

As for the rest of Challengers, "My Rights vs Yours" is such a fantastic song too! The way that song builds is thrilling. And "All of the Things that Go to Make Heaven and Earth" and "All the Old Showstoppers" - both excellent.

more on st. vincent's guitar work on the new disc.

That dude was a drunken mess when I saw him live w/NP.

iit was just that one time tbh iirc...

I actually really love "Failsafe" too.

As for the rest of Challengers, "My Rights vs Yours" is such a fantastic song too! The way that song builds is thrilling. And "All of the Things that Go to Make Heaven and Earth" and "All the Old Showstoppers" - both excellent.

i'd remove the bejar track and add challengers, go places and adventures in solitude, and you've got an album full of underappreciated highlights. i just wish they didn't try to keep the mood so subdued. some of these songs would take flight with a dose of the band's earlier energy.

new record, especially first half, is extremely bruising and solid. bejar contribution "silver jenny dollar" is one of his best.

v. happy to hear that. as i said above, i think the perfect tonic for this band is a rock album (not a "power pop" album, but a rock album -- and i think they have a great rock album in them).

...i think they have a great rock album in them).

― Daniel, Esq., Monday, March 8, 2010 10:48 PM

Give us 6 more It's Only Divine Right's and they'll be halfway there.

i like rolling stone's description of the song your hands (together):

Opening on Black Sabbath-crunchy power chords, Neko Case returns to the Pornographers' fold, belting out tough verses about silver bullets and "the voice of the idolmaker" over thundering tom-tom rolls and piano. Like a scrappy Fleetwood Mac after a few rounds of Canadian Club.

a whole album like this, plz.

Like a scrappy Fleetwood Mac after a few rounds of Canadian Club.
Prolly the best one-liner description of the Newps to date, nyet?

new single - Crash Years :

Neko sings, with clean and rich production (flutes, violins,guitars,whistles..), that reminds me more of the Newman solo Get Guilty sound, as oppose to Hands (Together) which sounds like a Twin Cinema outtake i guess.

very good tune.

totally dig crash years.

aww . . . hands (together) is better than an outtake.

this band has a lot more in the tank than some gave them credit for after the underrated challengers (ac newman solo albums, otoh . . .)

samples of all the songs from the new album can be found on the RYM page, here:

http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/the_new_pornographers/together/

1st impression:
sounds like a continuation of the last Newman solo LP (same producer in both) and Challengers, only with Bejar and Case added on vocals, of course.

That's disappointing. Don't love either of those.

Excellent.

sounds like a continuation of the last Newman solo LP (same producer in both) and Challengers, only with Bejar and Case added on vocals, everything they've made up to this point, of course.

Fixed.

(I really liked a good 9 or more of those 12 samples. Even the first Bejar track seemed enjoyable.

the samples sound fantastic. more "rock," less "power-pop," with a renewed emphasis on drums and the newman/case close harmonies. super excited about the disc.

So, this did what sinks do. L****d. Have to say, first listen (halfway through) and this is much better than Challengers.

Way better than Challengers, very low-key feel most of the way through, or at least low-key for them. Maybe I'm misremembering the first couple albums but the tempos feel slower. "Up in the Dark" is my favorite on first blush -- great combination of their classic sounds with the weird time signature, metronomic guitars, and ungodly catchy vocal lines.

nothing new here, from a band that sounds different (at least to some extent) on each album -
sadly, they are repeating themselves only without the energy,the brilliant tunes, and the interesting production.

i wish they would take some risk at this point, but maybe you can't do in yr 40's what you could do when you were younger.or just don't want to anymore.

i haven't heard the new one, but what would be a risk for this band? ten-minute songs? lo-fi production? Genuinely curious. The New Pornos aren't really a band I look to for risk-taking or wild new directions. I just expect harmonies/energy/bejar/case/hooks.

btw, when i was typing that the Pretenders' "message of love" came on the stereo -- sounded like the New Pornographers there at first!

i think Twin Cinema was risk taking at it's best in terms of production.

i mean, i don't want them to become like Built To spill for example - where from one point every record sounds as boringly the same as the previous and so on..
or (please don't kill me) Sonic Youth for that matter...

i don't know about "risk taking." it's certainly a change, i think. as i say, it sounds less "power-pop," and more "rock." so maybe not risk-taking but still . . . different.

and yeah, this: "I just expect harmonies/energy/bejar/case/hooks."

did a bit of a double-take at this -- "maybe you can't do in yr 40's what you could do when you were younger.or just don't want to anymore." -- but only because i'm 42. and maybe it's true. who knows.

what was risk-taking in the production of twin cinema??

i was wondering that, too, but i ain't gonna say anything bad about that album. it was my favorite disc of the decade for a long time, until i totally burned it out from overplaying it.

they used an e-bow on a couple songs.

I think "Challengers" is great, and underrated by most. I think it's almost as good as "Twin Cinema," actually.

Twin Cinema is not as slick and accessible as Electric Version and Mass Romantic were.
it was rawer, dirtier and more aggressive.

what was risk-taking in the production of twin cinema??

― call all destroyer, Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:09 PM

^^

Re: Twin Cinema production-I remember some bitching about excessive use of compression.

anyway, my point is i wish they had made some risk taking/changes with the new album, but they didn't

HOW DARE YOU THINK THAT. (no, whatevs, that's fine)

btw, i do like the Newman twitter:
http://twitter.com/acnewman

I'm very happy Twin Cinema's considered their best by lots of you.

re: his twitter, Newman's a funny guy ... hey have I shared my interview with him with ILM before? Here it is: http://www.junkmedia.org/index.php?i=1677 It turned out OK.

Yeah, Twin Cinema[i]'s my favourite of theirs, but [i]Challengers is second — probably a sentiment not shared by many.

i like 'em all but for me it's a sliding scale. not that I think they're just getting worse and worse, just that Mass Romantic and Electric Version are so good.

I love Challengers lots. It's a grower though. The first three felt like a trilogy, and Challengers came off like the subtle start of something different.

i want more big huge drums (like Twin Cinema), more Bejar, less Kathryn.

Challengers took a long time to like (for me), but now I'll rep hard for it under almost any circumstances. (Still like Twin Cinema most of all, though.)

As far as Twin Cinema's risk-taking, I remember thinking at the time that "Stacked Crooked" was unlike anything they'd done. Likewise, but less so, for "Falling Through Your Clothes."

Which tracks on the new one has Neko singing lead?

"My Shepard" and "Crash Years." She's a pretty huge presence throughout the record, though.

I'm really digging this, but I like all of their records. I'm especially fond of the two advance tracks, "Sweet Talk, Sweet Talk" and Bejar's three songs.

Still hard for me to differentiate between Neko and Kathryn when they're in the background.

i like kathryn's voice a lot.

Loving the sorta title track! Already much better overall than Challengers, their worst. Vocals more out front. Quirkier structurally than anything previous. A touch too stately (though not as sleepy as Challengers). But still a good show so far. Mr. says it sounds like Liz Phair (which means late Liz Phair)...

OMG! You heard it here first: "Your Hands (Together)" is the power pop "Paranoid."

i like kathryn's voice a lot.

― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:35 AM (20 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Have you heard her other band, Immaculate Machine?

no. i mean, i knew she was in another band, but i've never heard them. are they good?

they're not that great.

i like her overall contribution to the band, btw. she seems so happy to be there. newman seems that way, too. their enthusiasm is infectious.

kathryn is awesome and v. cute obv

man, i love me some Twin Cinema

LOLz at you punks discussing the subtle production differences of their albums. This band is all about the songwriting, man! The best album = the one with the best songs.

do not do not deny me, tonight i lost the deaaaaallllllll
do not do not deny me, my achilles' heeeeeeeeeeeeel

emusic's early review has me excited for this disc:

Together, the fifth record from interstate pop consortium the New Pornographers, is a masterpiece of construction, each little filigree, each rush of guitar, each organ speck perfectly placed. It’s drum-tight, and as effortless in its expertise as an Olympian.

Which is another way of saying that all A.C. Newman really wants is to be our Jeff Lynne, and Together makes the strongest case in years that he’s up to the task. Waking up after the long nap that was 2007’s Challengers, Together finds Newman & Co. muscling up and catapulting hooks over the high walls of the heart with more volume and determination than ever. Challengers had a boxer on the cover — Together has one in the songs. Like Lynne, who once lamented that his paradise was fading “like the Beatles in ‘Hey Jude,’” Newman understands the world in terms of pop music, and all energies are focused toward the artful — and, at times, elaborate — construction of the same. His songs are like ships in a bottle: You stand back and admire the craftsmanship and accept the fact that you’re never going to get close to them. If there’s any emotional resonance, it’s been walled up behind obtuse phrase-turns like “Valkyrie, don’t go home/ It’s not right, leave with the lights up.” He even manages to get Neko Case and Dan Bejar, two of the most beguiling and inventive lyricists working today, to shelve their predilections and indulge in a game of hide-the-gravitas. The unexpected upside is that when the players do drop their guard, the results are genuinely startling. Hearing Case sadly refer to an ex-lover as “a tall glass of blast from the past” or lament “What’s love, but what turns up in the dark” is deep-down moving — the rare moment where the clown starts sweating off his makeup and you can see the patch of actual flesh beneath.

But let’s not get too carried away: Looking for meaning is beside the point. The playing’s the thing, and Together is crammed with masterful performances. On the whole, it’s gutsier than the group has sounded in eons, brimming with confidence and swagger. To further cement those ELO comparisons, it also finds the band betraying a greater fondness for ornate string arrangements. Most of the songs are gussied up with pirouetting violins and divebombing cellos, giving them a kind of butter cream elegance. “The Crash Years,” which takes its place near the top of the list of Best New Pornographers Songs of All Time, pits low strings against Case’s stratospheric red-orange wail, working up to a wide-open chorus. The Bejar-belted “Silver Jenny Dollar” sounds like sudden realization, its exclamation-point guitars pogo-sticking around the foreground as Bejar coos the obtuse lyric “they holler Silver Jenny Dollar” with cool detachment. “Someone Took a Bite Out of My Bed” is nothing but blazing sun, and “Daughters of Sorrow” turns Bejar and Case into a bizarro world Donny Hathaway and Roberta Flack, trading plasticine R&B verses as Kathryn Calder bongs like a bell behind them. As if the group wasn’t already star-studded, Newman has rounded out the ensemble with a supporting cast of indie rock all-stars: Okkervil River’s Will Sheff lends vocals to the churning opener “The Moves,” Annie Clark’s guitar chug-a-chugs on the chorus of the wistful “My Shepherd,” Zach Condon of Beirut blasts a bright trumpet on “A Bite Out of my Bed” and the Dap-Kings act as the group’s own personal JB’s throughout. Unsurprisingly, the guests never upstage — everyone here is acting in service of the song.

The record’s title may or may not be a reference to the group’s ostensibly troubled internal dynamics — the reportage of which is the kind of thing that passes for salacious gossip in indie rockdom — but it also serves as a signpost of what’s in store. The Pornographers sound more focused and unified and impenetrable than ever, and the record is a testament to the sheer brute force they’re capable of when all cylinders are firing at once. To quote Newman himself, “I must have brought the weather back with me/ soaked us till we’re see-through and dripping.”

Whatever it is that means.

This one is a grower, my impression. I almost feel like BUYING this record.

NPR is now streaming the disc.

this album brings the goods. it is not the sleepier -- albeit still greatly underrated -- challengers. it's much closer to "rock" than "power-pop." as mentioned upthread, the attention-grabbing drum patterns and fills are back. the harmonies sour much higher than on the last disc. the hooks are sharper. it sags a little after a very strong four-song opening, but then again -- at least for me -- all the band's discs have a weak stretch in them. but it doesn't do much to dim the overall strength of the disc. this is a very, very good disc.

excited!

i'm not usually a fan of the bejar songs on the new pornographers' discs, but i love love love his if you can't see my mirrors from the new disc.

On initial listens, this album sounds superb. The first six songs at least - yowza!

Album is typically, if kinda soullessly, fantastic. Consistent, diligent, and immaculate.

okay, but no more or less soulless than their other discs, right?

i don't think i'd ever describe the band as soulful. just not that kind of act.

(i wouldn't describe, say, elo as soulful either, and i love elo (and the new pornographers' new disc reminds me of elo in some ways)).

okay, but no more or less soulless than their other discs, right?

i don't think i'd ever describe the band as soulful. just not that kind of act.

― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:10 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

Yeah, same old. Typical TNP album. I'm not at all complaining.

This record sounds good, just like all of their releases do. By this point, they have enough to fill an absolutely killer greatest hits record.

this is out today

it sure is. my wife bought it and she says it's great! so there's one review for you. i haven't listened yet.

hahaha -- i like your wife's review! the album's only $6.99 'round here, so i'm considering getting it later

$6.99 are you out of your mind?!?

(j/k)

Newbury Comics for the win

new BSS was $8.99, Hold Steady was the same i think

Wish I had a Newbury Comics around here! I only paid $7.99 for this, but nobody had the new BSS.

yeah, Newbury Comics is really good about stocking the big indie records -- they're always really cheap too, especially if they know they'll sell a lot. last year's Built To Spill record was $6.99 too

but, like, the new Deftones was $13.99 or $14.99 or some shit, but i don't know how much control NC has over that

Matthew Perpetua is the most boring of all Pitchfork writers, I think. I never get the feeling that he's moved by music, or maybe he's just not talented enough as a writer to get that down into words. His writing is just a cold, hard retelling of what happened where, who did what, and how this compares to other output by [insert artist name here]. "Aside from 'Valkyrie', Together is a solid collection of well-crafted songs," he writes. "However, in spite of the quality, the album isn't entirely satisfying." Zzzzzz.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/14195-together/

Very annoying and trollish review by Chris Roberts in this month's Uncut. He says NP fanatics perversely deny themselves the pleasure of listening to less fashionable acts who "do this sort of thing better". I'd like to know who the hell exactly is writing songs better than "Sweet Talk, Sweet Talk". Jerk. ;-)

i disagree with perpetua's overall view of the disc, but i thought he raised some interesting points (e.g., the contrast between case's "powerhouse voice" and Calder's "delicate, princessy" voice). the disc has received pretty good reviews overall, but the criticisms i've read seem to come down to the lack of explosiveness of the choruses, especially the vocal harmonies. some people -- understandably -- expect and cherish the jet propulsion feel of early new-pornographer choruses, especially the sharply rising tone of the vocal harmonies. on some of the early songs in this new disc, i felt like the platform was constructed for that type of harmony in the chorus, but the vocals didn't "take off" that way. but then i listened again, and began appreciating the heavier, more rock-oriented bottom to the sound. and as i hit the midsection of the album, i did find those big choruses, just in places i wasn't expecting, e.g., If You Can't See My Mirrors, My Sheppard, and Sweet Talk.

anyway, loving this disc a lot.

some people -- understandably -- expect and cherish the jet propulsion feel of early new-pornographer choruses,

I hadn't pieced this together to articulate it, but this is totally my issue.

Well, now that you all mention it, it seems to me that on most of the songs on this album, the verse melody is the crux. I don't see why this is bad thing.

is *a* bad thing, even.

I disliked "Crash Years" and am hesitant to buy this because as I get older I'm losing my taste, I've noticed, for this kind of power pop.

On 1st listen this album starts off super-well then tails off noticeably toward the middle, and the less said about the end the better.

*reserves right to pull super-180 if necessary*

and i kind of feel the opposite, where the middle is my favorite part. that may be because i've played-out the first four songs already.

Surprisingly good stuff. Feel like they have regained much of the songwriting spirit of the earlier albums, but with a production spirit that makes it feel more of a "finished" pop album.

ehhh so this is really a bit of a snooze isn't it

I think the first six songs are as good a run as they've had on any album - melodically and texturally an emphatically brilliant group of songs - but that the second half is a good bit below that standard. And I will reiterate that "Sweet Talk, Sweet Talk" is sensational.

what's happening to indie rock? the new BSS is more than "a bit of a snooze"

all these bands are getting old is what's happening

sweet talk and up in the dark are the only two i was really feeling on the first listen.

i don't get the sense that newman really wants to write for this band anymore--on his solo records he doesn't feel the need to overarrange everything and the compositions on get guilty were way the hell more interesting than anything here

ksh, time to explore other "genres."

like "christian metal" and "crabcore."

also good: viking metal

listened to this last night. sounded good! "if you can't see my mirrors" might be my fave. but this band is pretty consistent for me. i pretty much like it all.

It's a big improvement on Get Guilty - with a few exceptions, the latter sounded fairly tired.

ksh, time to explore other "genres."

― cool and remote like dancing girls (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, May 7, 2010 10:24 AM

yeah -- a good 75% of my purchases are metal records these days

yeah, i wasn't terribly keen on Get Guilty -- something seemed off about that record.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this, tho i didn't give it much of a chance. somewhere along the way, the notion of an a.c. newman solo record began feeling drab and boring. by constrast, the notion of a new NewPo record still seems exciting and worthwhile.

xxpost

i don't know how i didn't go nuts earlier after just buying indie record after indie rock w/o even paying attention to any other genres for five years

yeah, as far as AC Newman records go, it sort of seems like he should actually try to make something *different* from the NPs ... Maybe that's what he was trying to do with Get Guilty (his 1st solo rec was ace, tho). Just felt like on Get Guilty the songs were a little lackluster and he tried to dress them up with kinda offbeat production. I didn't hate it or anything, but I haven't felt the need to go listen to it again.
i had a theory a while ago that the NPs should shake things up -- Neko should produce the next Pornographers record, Bejar should produce the next Case record and Newman should do the next Destroyer record. i don't know what that would mean, but it sounds kind of cool in my head.

Thus we see the diminishing returns of power-pop. I don't how different you guys expect a NP album to be. All power-pop gets tiresome when it doesn't slow down and congeal (no snark intended).

*I don't KNOW how

"All power-pop gets tiresome when it doesn't slow down and congeal (no snark intended)."

This is reductive and kind of meaningless (no snark intended). (I was thinking of adding a winking smiley face there as well, but I thought it would soften the retort to the point of excessive cuddliness.)

Whether it's Cheap Trick, the Raspberries, Matthew Sweet, or whoever else, sooner or later the formula bores me; and when they change the formula it's almost always a failure.

Obviously it's not true of everyone. I have a friend who listens to this shit all day but too much sugar's bad for you.

Well, I would argue the term "power-pop" is fairly hazy to begin with, and almost invariably applying it to a specific artist will seem reductive. Certainly, I think it is with regards to the NPs.

ksh, time to explore other "genres."

The "classic melodic pop" genre is a wonderful as anything else, and is where indie acts tend to end up once they learn the importance of arranging and producing. Nothing negative about that. :)

(Or you might as well call it power pop for that matter, although it is a stupid term, because good power pop doesn't really have all that much "power")

Thus we see the diminishing returns of power-pop. I don't how different you guys expect a NP album to be. All power-pop gets tiresome when it doesn't slow down and congeal (no snark intended).

i would have gladly settled for more of the same--this record just seems super-conventional and horns/strings/acoustic guitars is feeling like a death sentence for this band.

Newman sez the next record will be minimal techno, no worries 4 u

next is the new pornographers/coldplay collab.

I'm in the (small) camp that wasn't disappointed with Challengers. I actually thought that album showed some growth for the band. It wasn't all sugar. I usually put the first three albums on shuffle but I like listening to Challengers on its own. This album on the other hand... it's not bad, but I'm feeling pretty ambivalent about it.

challengers was awesome outside of 2 or 3 songs

yeah i liked Challengers fine. def. a more listenable album as a whole -- i love the first two, but it's rare that I make it the whole way through those. The catchiness/energy can be kind of exhausting. Maybe I'm just old.

We're all old.

one day i was all young and now look at me.

What's weird is, given its rockist inclinations, you'd think power-pop would appeal *more* to (relatively) old people like me. But no. Alfred sums up my feelings about this band. It's something about power-pop: after two or so albums per band it gets pretty tiresome, and not always for a good - or easy to encapsulate - reason. Doesn't matter if it's the Pernice Brothers or New Pornos or what ... eventually it all seems so beholden to the clever chord progressions and arrangements or, if not, sunk by a conscious change of direction. Sort of like the three album curse that used to haunt hip-hop.

I'm in the (small) camp that wasn't disappointed with Challengers. I actually thought that album showed some growth for the band. It wasn't all sugar. I usually put the first three albums on shuffle but I like listening to Challengers on its own.

― scott pgwp (pgwp), Friday, May 7, 2010 11:50 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

Yep. I like this, though.

Hey--I read ILM often, but I almost never post. The Challengers talk has compelled me to take to the keyboard now, this one time, because I feel strongly about the subject. Regulars, I hope that's all right!

I absolutely *love* Challengers, with all four chambers of my heart, and really was surprised and disappointed when I learned that so many people had received it so poorly or (maybe worse) so indifferently. I've wondered often how the album got its reputation for boring monotony, which to me seems perfectly at odds with its content. I've wondered whether some listeners heard something different in their first spin from what they expected, and in their disappointment in what was absent turned their ears off without hearing what *was* on the album. The Pitchfork hatchet-job review, which (normative disagreement aside) I thought was one of the laziest and worst pieces of writing I've ever seen on Pitchfork, probably caused a lot of people to give it a pass.

I think that's a real shame, because Challengers opens up to the patient listener like few other records I have heard. It's filled with genuine feeling and tenderness. Carl Newman hides some of the feeling behind lyrical screens, but a handful of plays will carry you through the screens. The title track and "Go Places" are love songs written for grown-up people, which is something you can't say about too many love songs. "Myriad Harbour" is something different, a fantastic soundtrack for walking around New York City looking at pretty girls. (I've field-tested it.) "Adventures in Solitude" was my favorite song of 2007 and one of my favorites of the past 5 or 10 years. The part at 2:27 when Kathryn Calder takes lead is like the sun coming out. I must have listened to that song a hundred times during the summer when Challengers came out. It's completely romantic without being at all sentimental. The entire album builds to that moment when Kathryn takes lead.

Have you read Jane Austen's novel Mansfield Park? There are two main female characters, one a wild funny charming worldly and maybe dangerous girl named Mary Crawford who can make every man she meets fall in love with her, the other a quiet frightened tenaciously faithful English rose named Fanny Price whose beauty, though finally as bewitching as Mary's, only reveals itself with time and attention. Fanny is the heroine, but you can easily put the book down having sympathized more with her Mary, her rival. I think that in making Challengers Carl Newman found a vocal difference between Neko Case and Kathryn Calder which resembles the Mary-Fanny Mansfield dynamic and adds a valuable dramatic component to the songs on Challengers as they flow from one to the next. Neko is obviously Mary Crawford, and Kathryn is Fanny Price. Neko sounds like a bombshell, even when she sings softly: in her tender songs ("Challengers," "Go Places") her voice has a quality which says, "I have seen the world and many of the people in it, and I have no illusions about it anymore, and I have come back to you." Kathryn's voice carries a certain youthful bashfulness which is also very appealing, just different, and suited for different songs. Carl recognized this and divided the singing parts on Challengers between his two women in a way that to my ears sounds flawless.

Perfect example of what I mean: In "Unguided," toward the end of the song, though Carl sings almost all of it, there's one line written for a woman: "And why wait for the weakened state/To lie next to the weaker sex?" Carl gave an interview shortly after the album came out saying that Kathryn, his niece, really was embarrassed to sing this line and didn't want to do it, but finally he asked her so much that she relented. He said that he felt that only she could get it just right, and he was correct. Kathryn sings it with extraordinary shyness and vulnerability, and the whole effect is pretty intoxicating for those guys among us, like me, who have a tendency to fall in love when a girl singer really hits it home. Neko, great talent that she is, couldn't have done it so well.

I recognize that my ears and heart may be wired weirdly, and may be responding to something that just doesn't reach most human beings--i.e., maybe I'm a dog and Challengers is my dog whistle. But I encourage those of you who like the New Pornographers but who backed away from Challengers to try it once more. At least try the four songs "Challengers," "Myriad Harbour," "Go Places," and "Adventures in Solitude." You might hear more this time.

Nice. For that, I will give it a try.

Mansfield Park = Austen's Heaven Tonight?

Excellent stuff, Bill. Absolutely OTM about "Adventures in Solitude" - I was wondering when I'd come across someone who shares my intense love for that song. OTM too about the rubbishness of the Pitchfork review - notwithstanding its ignorance of the album's best song, it seemed to take the view that down-paced = bad, something you'd expect from the NME in its worst excesses. God forbid that such dreck would put people off listening to the album. That being said, I do think the album does sag in parts and some of the songs represent good intentions that do not quite come off, but still, I probably listened to it more than most things that came out in '07. For the first three tracks and AIS, and other scattered moments of loveliness, it is most certainly a keeper.

On the whole, good to have some passion and enthusiasm amidst the generally stultifying and ennui-inducing nature of many of the posts on this thread.

I'm on the same page as Bill. I thought Challengers was tremendous, and prob my second fave NP album after Electric Version.

For me they peaked with Twin Cinema (love the drum sound).

Challengers opens up to the patient listener like few other records I have heard. It's filled with genuine feeling and tenderness.

agreed. see, e.g., failsafe.

that's a great post, bill.

drum sound was great on twin cinema, but it's nearly as good in stretches of together.

The tom work in "Your Hands (Together)" enacts in me automatic responses. I am just suddenly playing air drums, world be damned.

I love "All the Old Showstoppers," personally. I love the idea of being a theatrical troupe -- like a broadway show, or more tapping into like this Annie Get Your Gun'esque Wild West / Buffalo Bill theatricality where they trot out the old showstoppers, and even today, you can be a band with the big numbers (esp with New Pornographers who have a def, recognizable almost mythological sound) and begin playing the old familiar chords and your audience is there to be blown away, and as the audience "you are nothing if not home." But see, Gaslight Anthem's "Stay Lucky" too for an example of how much of a sucker I am for bands mythologizing their force and institutions.

Not sure how much of this one I'm sold on yet, but this thread has made me go back and reconsider both Challengers (vv underrated) and Twin Cinema (a couple of towering tracks and a couple of good ones but a fair amount of relative meh).

Also rediscovering Bejar's "gift" for supremely irritating melodies. This fuckin' guy. I'd rate Challengers at least equal to Twin Cinema if they'd remove "Myriad Harbour"...

Christ, man, "Myriad Harbor" is the best song on Challengers.

But I guess it's okay if you think the opposite! I don't know, I have trouble understanding Bejar-hate.

Dan Bejar plays the Davy Jones role in a New Pornographers/Monkees comparison. He even kind of sounds like him at times. But anyway, Davy was probably the most divisive Monkee like Bejar is the most divisive 'Nog.

I halfway understand why people like Dan Bejar and his songs, but I'll never cross over to that camp willingly.

I've never disliked a Bejar penned NP song, even tho I have no interest in Destroyer.

Tho maybe I should check out a Destroyer track or two. Now that I think about it, I don't know if I've ever actually heard Destroyer.

Thus we see the diminishing returns of power-pop. I don't how different you guys expect a NP album to be. All power-pop gets tiresome when it doesn't slow down and congeal (no snark intended).

I figured that NP were one of the few bands who could break that stigma. It should have gotten tiresome after the first three albums but it didn't -- those albums sounded exactly the same but it was just more and more of a really good thing. That's not to say that I didn't like "Challengers". I haven't heard the new one yet.

Bejar's "gift" for supremely irritating melodies

With supremely irritating vocals to match.

I don't know, I have trouble understanding Bejar-hate

It's mostly in good fun. It wouldn't be NPs without him. But I really do find "Myriad Harbour" excruciating.

myriad harbor is great--entering white cecelia is the bejar dud on challengers.

fwiw i think adventures in solitude is a miss from an arrangement perspective but beyond that minor ish bill h. basically otm

Am convinced that Bejar is the least! convincing! vocalist! evah! and very strongly feel that he's phoning it in on Together; after only a couple spins I can't listen to even a few bars of any of his songs on this album. His hooks are like he's trying to be the Gaslight Anthem or something... on the other hand when he's being as genuinely himself (i.e. archly arty) as he ever gets on Newps albums, I don't hate the result. "Myriad Harbour" is one of the best tracks on Challengers and things like "Jackie Dressed in Cobras" provided a good foil for Newman's huge hooky numbers. Here I feel like every time he shows up he's like the guy who bluffs his way into the room at a party, takes over the conversation, makes unwarranted belligerent/asinine statements, then leaves to send another roomful of people into a bummer tailspin.

I love what they're doing with the Case/Calder backing vocals on this album. It sounds like they're using some of the techniques the Dirty Projectors lean on with the female vox and putting them into the service of pop. Kurt Dahle on drums makes such a difference to the energy, too - I feel like that's part of what was missing from Get Guilty.

you feel that way about bejar's if you can't see my mirrors? because it seems to me that song uses the case/calder backing vocals to their best effect -- and that's something i wouldn't normally assume would be the case with a bejar song (tho the vocals between him and case on twin cinema's streets of fire were lovely).

I like all of Bejar's songs on the new one.

Also, I agree w/ the contention that "Adeventures In Solitude" is one of their greats.

yeah, i think bejar hit his stride (in terms of how he fits best with the band) on together.

Uh oh. I like Destroyer's Rubies.

it has kind of an updated bowie-vibe to it, i think. lots of open space, guitar that chime in and out and play space-y lines, and drums that seem like they are tumbling downhill.

great, self-aware, playful, wry lyrics; great summer vibe.

anyway, yeah, i love rubies.

The new NP is not really growing on me, unfortunately.

cast this record into the trash bin, trust me i had my reasons

Is any Canadian album in 2010 safe from ksh's trashbin????

haven't heard this yet, save maybe one song, but i do love Destroyer (at least his last two albums, which are the only ones I've really heard)

cast this record into the trash bin, trust me i had my reasons

I TRUST YOU HAD YOUR REASONS BUT WHY, KSH, WHY?

hahahaha

i have not heard it! i have not bought it! i was merely alluding to the first lines of Destroyer's Rubies!

btw wherever I shake out on this thing (at worst, it's merely another awesome NPs record), let me just go on the record that "Your Hands (Together)" is dope as fuck. love the hypercompressed string noise "solo"

on further reflection he may just be playing behind the bridge. still sounds great though.

i listened to this album on a two-hour plane flight today. the middle and end sections really sounded outstanding. it's funny, because i started by listening to the new disc from the nat'l, and from track nos. 1 -- 6, i thought "wow, i never cared about this band before, but this may be the best thing i've heard this year." then i hit track no. 7, and the album hit a wall for me. by contrast, i began in the middle of together -- maybe at sweet talk, sweet talk -- and concentrated on it through the end (we end up together) and was floored by how well the building orchestration worked, and how the case/calder harmonies gave me chills, and how different and interesting each song was from the next.

Kathryn has a new album imminent for release. This song is intriguing: http://stereogum.com/385921/kathryn-calder-slip-away/mp3s/

The iTunes Bonus Tracks for "Together" make up an EP of three Outrageous Cherry covers, and they are AWESOME!

oh nice. got a 7" of that when i bought the album but have not yet listened.

Just got back from their show. First half was excellent, everyone in fine form and jeez, Blaine's lost weight and I swear I saw him smile a few times! However, 2nd half was bogged by too many late-period Newman trudgers and (predictably) Bejar, who seriously looked like a homeless person who'd accidentally wandered onto stage.

oh no, a homeless person

Saw the show last night in Columbus, OH. Had a funny moment at the beginning: Before taking the stage, the band was letting Boston's "Foreplay" play over a dark stage. After about a minute, the iPhone email notification sound went off, to great laughter. (Neko said it was her mom emailing her before the show.) Opened with "Sing Me Spanish Techno" and did something from every album, including I think 4 from the new one. Dan came on and off stage as needed throughout the show, and towards the end had to be prompted the lyrics for "Jackie" by Kurt, because Dan was clearly plastered. Lots of energy, set list was almost like a greatest hits with a few oddities interspersed.

Similar show in Milwaukee, a few nights ago. Bejar also drunk as a skunk for "Jackie," and pretty much bleated the lyrics at an absurd volume. Saw plenty of attendees on the older end of the spectrum covering their ears and looking stunned. I felt their pain. The band played plenty from Together, though--"Moves," "Crash Years," "Your Hands (Together)," "Silver Jenny Dollar," "My Shepherd," "Sweet Talk, Sweet Talk," and "Up in the Dark."

I'm seeing them on Saturday at Terminal 5. I hate the venue, but a lot of good bands play there unfortunately. Do they play some songs from Twin Cinema? That's my favorite of theirs.

They played "Sing Me Spanish Techno," "These Are The Fables," "Twin Cinema," "Use It" and "The Bleeding Heart Show" last night.

That's awesome, I love those songs. Hope they play "Streets of Fire."

I was hoping for a few more from "Challengers," but we got "Your Rights Vs Mine," "Myriad Harbour" and the title track. Two from Electric Version ("The Law Has Changed" and "A Testament To Youth In Verse") and three from Mass Romantic (title track, "Jackie" and "The Slow Descent Into Alcoholism").

Is there some reason Dan Bejar acts like a sulky seven-year-old on stage or is it just part of the ambience?

yeah, it's called stage fright

I saw them tonight at the Shepherds Bush Empire (I think it was a one-off show warm up for their ATP performance tomorrow?). Neko Case was with them this time (Carl said she'd never sung with them in the UK before). Similar set-list to the ones mentioned above from a few months ago, give or take a couple of songs - they didn't play "Letter from an Occupant," but they did play that "Snow White" song from the 'Dark Was the Night' comp. They started with lots of fast classics and then got into a large chunk of midtempo ones. Carl apologized at the end saying they had at least 5 more in them but the curfew was cutting them off.

The crowd was dead, dead, dead... hardly any movement at all. The balcony was open but the place seemed less than 2/3rds full. Strangely (to me), people seemed to respond most enthusiastically to the "Together" songs. The stage is frustratingly low in that place. The drummer is still a monster! They are so much fun to see live.

"Hey, Snow White" is a Destroyer song, but I'm guessing Bejar wasn't there to participate. Sounds good, though.

Huh, I didn't know that. Carl Newman and Neko sing it on the 'Dark Was the Night' comp.
Bejar was indeed absent. Newman offered some faux-angry banter, saying 'that guy's a prick' when someone shouted a question about him.
I think the only Bejar song they played was "Testament to Youth in Verse."

I think the setlist was something like this:

Moves
The Slow Descent Into Alcoholism
It's Only Divine Right
The Laws Have Changed
We End Up Together
All the Old Showstoppers
Adventures in Solitude
These Are the Fables
Twin Cinema
Sweet Talk, Sweet Talk
Crash Years
Hey, Snow White
Your Hands (Together)
Up in the Dark
My Rights Versus Yours
Mass Romantic
Testament to Youth in Verse
Use It
The Bleeding Heart Show

Encore:
Challengers
Sing Me Spanish Techno

I have some of that out of order but I think that's the bulk of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYyu5vbwvbA&feature=youtu.be

lol, love it

Seems unlikely that the Newps will ever release another album. Is there any interest in a Tracks poll? ILM's chance to set their canon in stone.

why unlikely?

i think there's a new album coming out in 2014

Ah, so it seems: http://thefourohfive.com/news/article/the-new-pornographers-have-almost-finished-their-sixth-studio-album

Yeah, AC Newman's been Tweeting about making it for the last year or so (sometimes back and forth with Neko, which is often entertaining)

The question is will it be good?
The answer is probably no.
They (and Newman) didn't release anything good in ages.

idk what counts as "in ages" (let's assume last 5 years?) but i rate Together, Get Guilty, and Middle Cyclone (i like Shut Down the Streets + new Case but not quite as much), and tho i'm not a huge fan i'm pretty sure ilx rates kaputt

Kaputt is good. i agree on that.
but Destroyer had only 3 songs on a NP record, and he isn't responsible of the production..

in ages means since Twin Cinema (2005).

i think in this case, i agree with the silent majority about the rating of their albums:

http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/the_new_pornographers

Mordy otm. Plenty of great material over last few years. Put it on the list of polls now we won't vote before 2016 anyway.

whatever. half of twin cinema is just okay, plenty of great tracks on Together, title track on shut down the streets is booming.

ok, but i miss the more adventurous production, and the strong melodies..

clearly only a poll can settle this

Clearly! Alright, I'll set it up.

I'm thinking: Rank the albums and are ten songs enough? Fifteen maybe? Tempted to include the 2 Newman solo records in this, as they seem so much a piece with the Newps' output (unlike the rest of the band's excursions) but am leaning against it atm.

"Tempted to include the 2 Newman solo records in this"

don't resist the temptation!

I'd vote for putting it into the full-on poll coordination thread. Minimum 20 tracks, solo Newman okay.

Slow Wonder is in league with their best records so, of course - out him in

really? always felt like those songs were strong up until the chorus, where they sputtered on the launch-pad instead of taking-off.

and i was a huge fan of this band not long ago (felt like i loved challengers at the time, but now can easily see why people say twin cinema was their high-point, with a somewhat uneven decline following it).

Don't know much about the New Pornographers beyond a couple of well known songs, but this is great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mU99Hv77S8

I heard it for the first time very late in 2012--too late for my year-end, but I was able to get it onto my ILM ballot.

I dunno. Twin Cinema was a big step forward and "The Bleeding Heart Show" may be their pinnacle but my the highs on Challengers are pretty damn high.

"The Bleeding Heart Show" may be their pinnacle

can't overstate how great a song this is. i've played it enough for a lifetime, but the band deserves like a "lifetime achievement" award for that song alone.

Challengers doesn't somehow hold up as a record to listen to all the way through, but its strengths seem as strong as anything they've done.

So we're cool with keeping solo Newman and leaving out all the Case/Bejar/Fancey stuff?

i am. case and bejar and fancy's solo projects seem too far afield to include. newman's solo work, obv., isn't so far afield.

Agree re Challengers - the first two albums might be superior overall, but the best parts of Challengers are among the best things they've ever done.

no wonder no one talks about Together.
ca we agree it's their worst record?

had some really promising song ideas, fragments. never achieved liftoff. listening to it makes me think their energy is gone, even when they try to rev-up the guitars-and-drums.

But I still rate Together ahead of that 2nd Newman solo record, which had, like, 1-3/4 good songs on it.

the way the chorus in "The Electric Version" just explodes

Same with "Blown Speakers"

Or is it "Brown Speakers?" same thing I guess

"From Blown Speakers." that one is so great, too. also "The Laws Have Changed." never been able to get into any of their albums, but I love half a dozen or so of their tracks.

Favorite moment of the band is Neko screaming the chorus of "Letter"

And if you haven't heard fancey's first one with the orange on the cover, you should

so how's the new one?

Meh

uh no

not meh

Whiteout Conditions =

second installment of an incredible resurgence after the (relative) disappointment of Challengers and (especially) Together

worthy follow-up to the brilliant Brill Bruisers

packed top-to-bottom with perfect Newman New Wave/kraut-pop bangers

latest chapter of the finest discography of the 21st century

perspective i will accept/acknowledge: it is kind of starting to sound like Carl could do this in his sleep?

yeah, carl is good but best in small doses, which is why neko and dan are missed so much

thanking u alpine static for thoughtful summary
really hated to FP u but Challengers is fantastic

Which are Neko songs on the new one?

FP = ?

you're right, rogermexico., Challengers is fantastic. i sort of lump it together with Together, which is unfair ... i just revisited the tracklist of Challengers and yes, it's great. it's really only Together that I struggle with a bit.

but again, this band's worst moments are still better than most's best, imo

FP = ?

'face penetrate'

hmm, that's worse than i thought

New album streaming on NPR

lol - "flag post" but obv i was kidding

challengers disappointed a lot of people at the time bc it wasn't Twin Cinema II but it really holds up and imo may be their strongest top to bottom. title track is about as good as it gets if you don't go in looking for the auditory sugar highs of e.g. from blown speakers, mass romantic, the bleeding heart show etc etc all of which i obviously love.

together... yeah. better than a lot of outfits' best and some fine numbers but eh...

Challengers is classic.

yep. together is the one that is pretty much just a dud.

Agreed. "Sweet Talk, Sweet Talk" is the only keeper from that one.

if i didn't love "crash years" or "up in the dark" so much i'd consider agreeing with that nonsense

otm

yeah

new one sounds a bit noisy on first listen - but "high ticket attractions" is awesome

I could honestly listen to Neko sing "For a fee I'll fight any foe" in Play Money all day long on repeat. Not even the whole song, just that chorus.

Amen to that

This is their best album at least since Challengers (which as I said above I regard as a classic - severely underrated at the time of its release). On first listen I loved every moment of the new one.

The title track is great!

http://pitchfork.com/news/71162-raffi-strongly-objects-to-new-pornographers-name-ac-newman-trolls-raffi/?mbid=homepage-more-latest-and-video

ac newman is kinda a giant weirdo

It's Raffi making a pretty mild criticism of the name which makes perfect sense of you consider who Raffi is, then Newman freaks out with 15 persecution complex tweets, gross

After A.C. Newman saw Raffi’s tweet, he said, “TFW someone whose music you loved as a child says mean things about your life’s work.” Newman then clarified that he’s “not very familiar” with Raffi’s music and was attempting to “make him feel bad” with his tweets.

speaking as someone who only seven days ago referenced puppetry of the penis here on ilxor dot com, i must move to condemn ac newman's comment that their show is 'in bad taste'

penis puppets for everyone

if raffi didn't want to get harassed by irritable indie rock celebrities he shouldn't have joined twitter

the new pornographers are one of my favorite bands and have been ridiculously consistent over the last 17 years not to mention all the incredible side projects from band members

also their name is dumb af

if ac newman didn't want to get sonned by raffi after a porno beef he shouldn't have been born

http://www.stereogum.com/1959728/the-new-pornographers-albums-from-worst-to-best/franchises/counting-down/

challops galore. Twin Cinema at #6 fine, fine, but the only way you can say "there’s never a moment that truly bursts from the speakers..." is if you've somehow muted the drum track on "the bleeding heart show."

Even accounting for the fact that the first two albums have many ardent supporters, there is no way that Twin Cinema should place any lower than #3.

I hope it comes out the same as Fountains of Wayne so that I have so much good music I just can't decide what to listen to.

I loved 2003

Ordering NP albums is weirdly difficult for me. I got into them around the time of Twin Cinema and bought the first three albums in nearly one go. The first two in particular I have always mixed up - literally, I listened to them combined and on shuffle for years. I can't really think of them as distinct entities.

And if I really zero in on the album I listen to most *as an album* - it's Challengers.

So I kinda want to say it's Mass Romantic>Electric Version>Challengers>Whiteout Conditions>Twin Cinema>Brill Bruisers>>Together

But in my heart I think it's actually Challengers>Electric Romantic>Whiteout Conditions>>>Twin Cinema>>>>I really don't listen to the other ones often even though they're good too.

I like the closing track of "Together" as much as I like anything else they've recorded since Electric Version.

this band is so good

and has been so consistently good

mass romantic and electric version have high highs but are honestly kinda fatiguing. i agree that Challengers is the most listenable as an album, even if it might not be the one i'd recommend as an intro to the band.

The guy is about as wrong as a person can be about Together, the first half of which is up with their best, before it all goes very dreary after "My Shepherd". I think Electric Version and Twin Cinema are the most consistently great, and it seems unlikely they'll get back to that level again, but all the albums have at least a smattering of gems. I have been very underwhelmed by the few things I've heard from Whiteout Conditions, but we'll see.

Whiteout Conditions is fantastic.

I really should give it another shot. I like "Play Money" a lot, but my attention drifts soon afterwards.

Brill Bruisers and Whiteout Conditions are next after the first two for me, right there with Twin Cinema.

I got into them around the time of Twin Cinema and bought the first three albums in nearly one go. The first two in particular I have always mixed up - literally, I listened to them combined and on shuffle for years. I can't really think of them as distinct entities.

Twin Cinema was also my introduction and yeah there was definitely a long while after I got the first two where I could never remember which songs were on which, they do feel very much of a piece (although I've come around to preferring Electric Version). Twin Cinema remains one of my favourite albums of the '00s. My ranking at the moment would be:

Twin Cinema>Electric Version>Brill Bruisers>Mass Romantic>Whiteout Conditions>>Challengers>>>Together

Challopian as the Stereogum revive may be (though I do think their top 2 is correct), it has made me play these records again and smdh what a brilliant fucking band this is. Their best hooks are like drugs, I can't even listen to it for hours on end because it's just too much, too glittery, too happy even.

Today this is the best song of all-time for me (and fucking great video, too):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn-LDCRL8Js

Challengers still mad underrated. It's better than everything that's followed.

"Unguided" is a bit of an albatross but "Go Places," "Myriad Harbor," "My Rights Versus Yours" and "Adventures in Solitude" are some of their very best songs

I like hearing this enthusiasm, because I really liked the first two records at the time, but am pretty unfamiliar with the rest of them except maybe Together, so will henceforth explore/relisten.

Oh man you have a world to explore then. They are so, so good, also after the first two records. Just dose it according to your preferred intake :)

And Simon H. completely otm about 'Challengers'.

some day i look forward to old-style polling new pornographers and associated solo acts

Hell yes, I'd be very much into that. AC Newman's solo album is such a treat, too. Let alone Neko.

album*s*!

Ha, verily! (my bad)

D@n and I squabbled amicably about his rankings on FB, with which I mostly disagree but who cares? Most of the writing is sharp. I'd no idea until a couple years ago that Twin Cinema is the consensus pick -- it got excellent reviews at the time but remember no real euphoria. Then not long afterward the ground shifted.

I didn't have any objections to Whiteout Conditions other than my boredom with power pop.

I never experienced Twin Cinema as the consensus pick, but then that's only in relation to my 'bubble'. Always thought the quintessential NP album was, still, Mass Romantic tbh.

But you are so right: it doesn't really matter when your discography is this consistently great.

Electric Version was my first NP album and it will always be the consensus #1 in my eyes

I think I probably burned out on them pretty early on, because power-pop, but that's my problem, not theirs.

challengers is their best album imo but yeah the distinction is meaningless

I read the Stereogum article and ended up spending some time with the catalogue as well. I'd always had TC #1, but the production is kind of lacking there.
New #1-Electric Version. (I think they could have recorded Twin Cinema the song on a boombox and it would still be great though).

Speaking of Newman's solo albums - how does everyone rate them? I had the first one and liked it fine, though it kinda felt like diet cola compared to NP material. Never followed up with his subsequent solo stuff but have been meaning to.

i like all of them but new pornographers lite is a good description

get guilty is maybe my fave

yeah same, i think the best of get guilty hangs with peak nps but wouldn't say that about the other two

I've never warmed to Destroyer the way I have his NP tracks.

love The Slow Wonder, never got into the rest

True story. I was listening to the new OMD (which is good). Next up in the queue was (I learned retroactively) "Brill Bruisers," which I'd literally never heard. The OMD album is playing when my wife pops in, but she doesn't say anything. Then seconds later I notice the music has changed.

"What is this?" she suddenly asks. "It sounds familiar."

"Well, it had been OMD, so it should be familiar," I say. "But I was just wondering what it was myself, because I think the album switched."

"Hmm," she answered. "Reminds me of the New Pornographers."

Which I think is nuts impressive, because she likes the NPs when they're on, but they're almost never on here, and she's never asked to hear them, but was immediately able to identify an album I'd literally never heard or played before (and neither had she) as the NPs. Good for her, I say. And good for them!

we should just poll them at this point, I've spent so much time listening since that Stereogum article. Thanks Dan!
Current ranking:
EV
TC
MR
BB
everything else.

Thank you again, thread revive, because I think there was a better than average chance I might not have ever listened to this band on purpose ever again, for no good reason, the ultimate taking a group for granted. But I'm loving them today.

I sort of fell into a state of ambivalence toward them for the last couple of years but Whiteout Conditions totally rekindled my love for them. It's one of my favorite records of the year.

best recorded catalog of the past 2 decades, imo

Here's the list I came up with.

not bad. jessica numbers would be the biggest omission for me.

We have arrived

Too late to play

Hard to argue with that list. "Divine Right" would replace "Testament" in the top 5, but the other 4 are pretty undeniable, especially the vocal octave leaps and drops in the chorus of "Spanish Techno," or the end of "The Bleeding Heart Show" when it goes all "Pleasant Valley Sunday."

(Psst... "Mass Romantic" is on twice.)

easy to argue with that list. "the bleeding heart show" is their best song and remains unmentioned. talk to me about the stooges without mentioning "fun house" or run DMC and "raising hell" and i tune you out

Uhm, 'Bleeding Heart Show' is Alfred number one?

aaahh. no arguments with alfred's list. i thought you were talking about the challopsy stereogum dude's. sorry!

I'll give you something to be sad about

Ranking their albums. They've shown this on both screens!

Why is this nsfw?

guessing it's a joke derived from the band name

went on a lil new pornographers ride the other day,

twin cinema deffo seems the best when going back - had a surprisingly good time with brill bruisers too

I love the way the drums get mixed on Twin Cinema.

My man Todd fancey has a new LP out today

https://ffm.to/eyesoffire

New!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fDdetA8LU4

"Really Really Light"

whoa!

We’re so incredibly excited to share our new record ‘Continue as a Guest’ with you on 3/31. This one feels extra special, as it will be our first release with the legendary @mergerecords. Pre-order is available, as well as our latest merch! We’ve also released our brand new single “Really Really Light”, paired with a beautifully directed video by Christian Cerezo. Listen + watch + pre-order: lnk.to/ContinueAsAGuest

We can’t wait to play these new songs for you all when we hit the road this spring! Ticket presale will begin tomorrow 1/10 at 10am local and general onsale begins on Friday 1/13 at 10am local. Sign up to get the presale code for your show via thenewpornographers.com. A portion of the proceeds from presale tickets sold via our website will go to @fronterafundrgv. Special guests @wildpinknyc open all shows. See below for a full list of dates.

4/19/23 - Asheville, NC - Salvage Station
4/20/23 - Atlanta, GA - Variety Playhouse
4/21/23 - New Orleans, LA - Tipitina's
4/22/23 - Houston, TX - White Oak Music Hall
4/23/23 - Dallas, TX - Studio at The Factory
4/25/23 - Austin, TX - Paramount
4/26/23 - Oklahoma City, OK - Tower Theatre
4/27/23 - St. Louis, MO - Sheldon Concert Hall
4/28/23 - Omaha, NE - The Waiting Room
4/29/23 - Kansas City, MO - The Truman
4/30/23 - Denver, CO - Gothic Theatre
5/03/23 - St. Paul, MN - The Fitzgerald
5/04/23 - Milwaukee, WI - Turner Hall
5/05/23 - Chicago, IL - Thalia Hall
5/06/23 - Chicago, IL - Thalia Hall
5/08/23 - Cincinnati, OH - Memorial Hall
5/09/23 - Columbus, OH - Newport Music Hall
5/11/23 - Detroit, MI - El Club
5/12/23 - Toronto, ON - Danforth
5/13/23 - Burlington, VT - Higher Ground Ballroom
5/14/23 - Norwalk, CT - Wall Street Theater
5/15/23 - Boston, MA - Royale
5/17/23 - New York, NY - Brooklyn Steel
5/18/23 - Philadelphia, PA - Union Transfer
5/19/23 - Washington, DC - 9:30 Club
5/21/23 - Saxapahaw, NC - Haw River Ballroom

Tracklist:

01 “Really Really Light”
02 “Pontius Pilate’s Home Movies”
03 “Cat And Mouse With The Light”
04 “Last And Beautiful”
05 “Continue As A Guest”
06 “Bottle Episodes”
07 “Marie And The Undersea”
08 “Angelcover”
09 “Firework In The Falling Snow”
10 “Wish Automatic Suite”