Faith No More: Angel Dust v. The Real Thing

this isn't even a contest

....but you didn't tell me who you voted for. The suspense is molesting me!

Angel Dust isn't only their best album but one of the best ever made.

Angel Dust

This should have just been a qustion in ask chaki!

I never got the hang of Angel Dust. When I first bought it, I took it back to the store because I thought the cassette was warped (it was actually keyboards in the background). RV and Be Aggressive had too much of a novelty flavor. I don't really like Crack Hitler or Jizzlobber. There are some great, great songs to be sure: Land of Sunshine, Smaller and Smaller, Everything's Ruined, Small Victory ... but they don't really make up for the ones I don't like.

The Real Thing also contains some songs I don't dig on; Falling to Pieces is way up on that list. It has the distinct advantage however, of containing one of my favorite fifty-percents of an album this side of Abbey Road. Starting with the title track and moving on through Underwater Love, The Morning After, Woodpecker From Mars and War Pigs. I go pretty nuts whenever I hear this. I'm going to go listen to it now.

The only thing I'll say about the matter is that buying Angel Dust remains the first and only time in which a record store clerk refused to sell an album to a minor.

haven't heard AD in ages but it's the only album I've ever bought 3 times: on tape, then on CD when the tape broke, then eventually a third nostalgic copy when the other CD burned in a fire that consumed 50 of my discs. I don't think I ever listened that third copy.

Yes! The ecstacy! You can pray! You! Will never let! It Slip away!

That part just kills me. Whew!

how about King for a Day? I liked thatone too.

Album of the Year was oddly the first FNM I heard all the way through and outside of Collision, Ashes to Ashes, and STripsearch, it's pretty boring.

I think Introduce Yourself is pretty fierce.

nobody cares a lot about that 'other' FNM

Album of the Year was oddly the first FNM I heard all the way through and outside of Collision, Ashes to Ashes, and STripsearch, it's pretty boring.

man, Last Cup of Sorrow killed me. still love that song.

oh and definitely angel dust. no contest here. it was their houses of the holy.

yea I liked Last Cup of Sorrow...

"this...is getting old and so will you".

Angel Dust is a phenomenal piece of art that I don't listen to that much for the same reason I don't listen to a lot of other great albums that much, which is that I don't want to wear it out for me. I pull out The Real Thing more often, since that's their great pop record (although I'm more partial to the first half). I am going to have to say Angel Dust, though.

Angel Dust is a terrific record, The Real Thing merely a fun one. I think Album of the Year is actually pretty enjoyable the whole way through, but realise I am in a minority.

Album of the Year is rad.

Listened to Angel Dust for the first time in years today and its a really great album.

yes

Can't be overstated. Perfect marriage of weirdness and pop catchiness.

I will never tire of Angel Dust.

http://youtu.be/Gx34APCro-U

The Real Thing also contains some songs I don't dig on; Falling to Pieces is way up on that list. It has the distinct advantage however, of containing one of my favorite fifty-percents of an album this side of Abbey Road. Starting with the title track and moving on through Underwater Love, The Morning After, Woodpecker From Mars and War Pigs. I go pretty nuts whenever I hear this. I'm going to go listen to it now.

― kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, January 3, 2008 7:49 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Been so long since I've listened to this. Do people around here even recognize the greatness of the song The Real Thing?

I listen to Angel Dust all the time, still, and have for so many years. just a stone cold classic. Real Thing is great too, particularly Falling to Pieces. But I never warmed to any of the later albums.

The rare random band my wife and I equally love. And by "band" I mean these two records. Equally.

I don't remember ever starting this thread.

Angel Dust still my fav. Still love The Real Thing.

"Land of Sunshine" is such a perfect album opener.

Been so long since I've listened to this. Do people around here even recognize the greatness of the song The Real Thing?

― beachville, Wednesday, February 29, 2012 4:49 AM (15 hours ago) Bookmark

probably my fav track on the album actually

Yeah, The Real Thing is fabulous. Angel Dust is my favourite. King For A Day, Fool For A Lifetime, with a bit of editing, could have been up there too.

this is a tough one because angel dust was v challenging for me as a middle school student and did a lot to broaden my musical mind

but on balance i think real thing kills it, there is not a bad track on there whereas it is easy for me to pick out flaws in individual angel dust tracks

angel dust has aged a lot better. i'll still rock out to the real thing but i don't know how i'd feel about it if i heard it for the first time now.

angel dust, no question. much more ambitious and largely successful.

patton still has that super-nasal thing going on the real thing too. was never too into that.

that's how i feel about the cookie monster voice songs on angel dust

I think "Angel Dust" may be "better" and more "ambitious," but I would be lying if I claimed I actually liked it more for those reasons. My honest response remains that I like both equally.

if there is one song that tips Angel Dust over the edge to me, it's "Kindergarten". jesus christ that song. the moods, the keyboards, the chorus, the staccato vocals.

i could listen to that shit on loop forever. and the guitar harmonies at the end is like...climax

the "Held back again" vocals always give me chills.....

this album I bought when I was 19 when I had started antidepressants for the first time and that combined with the sometimes depressive vibe the album gives off used to just fuck with my mood. once I got past that personal baggage this thing just wouldn't leave my player

Yeah, this was one of a handful of albums (alongside Badmotorfinger, Dirt, Psalm 69, the first Mr. Bungle, etc.) that were way too good at feeding my fourteen-year-old depressive moods and that I listened to way too much and that I've just in the last few years started learning how to approach without those associations.

listening to badmotorfinger is like being beaten with a sack of very tired led zeppelins

Tomahawk's first record is the perfect encapsulation of what Faith No More ended with, I don't think Patton's done another record quite like it. Love "Angel Dust" particularly " Jizzlobber".

I think Tomahawk's most recent album is very good, the most stripped-down and straightforward thing Patton's done for a decade plus.

Damn, forgot all about "Oddfellows". That is a great record!

King for a Day secretly has it over both of these records imo

I've tried so many times in the years since that album came out, but I'm still not hearing it. So I guess it's just a really, really well kept secret.

last time i listened to king for a day i realized it must've singlehandedly invented incubus

I'm with JiC on this one

King for a Day is great but the benefits of having Spruance are also a hindrance in that he brings more of the genre-splicing of Bungle into the mix. Which isn't bad, but "Star AD" and "Evidence", while I love both, are kinda kitschy in a way that Angel Dust isn't.

There aren't really even any songs I dislike from it, but I enjoy the highs of Angel Dust more.

(though there is "Midnight Cowboy" and "RV", so.....)

King for a Day secretly has it over both of these records imo

― Whiney G. Weingarten

The issue with KotD is that it crosses over into simple genre parody too often, which is less interesting no matter how well done those parodies might be. On Angel Dust it's more like each individual song combines several genres to create something original. The more enduring songs on King for me are the ones that attempt that, such as the title track, Ricochet and Last to Know. Something like Evidence is fun and very listenable, but not as exciting as their more experimental hybrid tracks.

*KfaD, I think I'm getting it mixed up with Match of the Day.

yah I don't get the criticism of KFAD here it's a perfect record

Album of the Year is also a really satisfying listen.

Much of KFAD is very good but too often it's like Patton and Spruance weren't quite finished purging their Bungle-fied juvenilia. While Album of the Year isn't as good an album overall as KFAD, it's more consistently good (and I might go so far as to say that FNM, as much as I love them, never put out an album as consistently good as California).

(I was writing that before I saw the previous post, so I guess discussing Album of the Year was just the logical next step in this convo.)

California and Angel Dust are my only two serious contenders for best Patton album.

Everyting on AotY is at least decent, but it only has three of four really great tracks.

Mit Gas is the next runner up imo

I'm impressed by all these different viewpoints.

Many People Have Different Perspectives on Mike Patton's Recorded Output: Should You Be Afraid?

Let's gossip: I think it's fucked up how Mike treated Trey at the end of Mr. Bungle.

I think I'd be more afraid if everyone was in agreement re: FNM, Tomahawk, Peeping Tow, Fantomas, Mr. Bungle, Lovage, solo, Zorn stuff, et al. They're sort of designed to defy consensus.

+ all the Secret Chiefs stuff + live shows post California is much better than anything Patton has done.

Hey Kurt - how did Mike treat Trey? curious...

Favourite Patton:

Mr. Bungle - California - Would kill to see a documentary on this illuminating the weird tape methods they used.
Mondo Cane - S/T
Fantomas - Suspended Animation
Faith No More - Angel Dust

King For a Day... is my favourite FNM album at this stage.

The story goes: Mike wouldn't talk to Trey directly and wanted all communication go through Greg W, former Jello Biafra/AT biz dude and the guy Patton founded Ipecac with. Trey didn't want to do business through Greg and wanted to do things like they always have (they are all childhood friends). This caused a huge fight and Mike, when asked about the future of Mr. B in Rolling Stone, said some pretty mean shit about Trey.. he is a self centered egomaniac or something. Trey handled it in the press with much more class.

Trey: As time wears on you find out who your friends are, and who they aren't. Mike and I always had the best working relationship imaginable. Really, very very good and fruitful. There are other things in life we see differently. I don't think those things are irreconcilable at all. But when you get used to having things your own way, and certain people around you resist the "natural order" of becoming subordinate to you, you may start nursing resentments. Even lashing out at them and calling them egomaniacs etc. for not assuming the position. I think in my case it was too painful for Patton to realize that where there are no subordinates there is no insubordination. Like most of us, Mike tends to begin the process of deciding whether or not he can afford to discard a person's point of view altogether, rather than facing certain difficult facts of life. So to answer your question, there was never any big mess between he and I specifically. The general dysfunction coming from being expected to silently endure more and more of this emerging top-down/top-dog order-barking thing he'd taken to just ended up getting really tiresome for everyone involved. In a band, strong personalities need to know where to draw the line on this kind of stuff. Anyway, since it wasn't going to happen, I was the idiot who started to draw that line. I admit I had more emotional involvement in the process than would be neccesary for a non-robot, having poured comparatively ridiculously copious doses of my blood into the project. Patton's subsequent resentment towards me is a fairly predictable outcome. You don't stand up to him and stay off the shit-list. A bummer, yeah, but its essentially a self-protecting reflex action - something I don't really feel a need to hold against him too much. He has his way. It won't change. And after all why should it? This method works well for him overall -- who am I to question it? I dare say it's even part of his charm. (we are a nation of pathological narcissists after all!). Whatever. Really, I feel fondly about the time we spent making music together, and feel we did some great things. And, while I am diametrically opposed to it on a human level, over time I do appreciate the clarity of his cut and dry approach: how black and white it makes things. You're either in the club, or out of the club. Unfortunately, I have to say I do prefer life as an excommunicate from that kind of 'friendship'. I know he prefers it that way too. I'm sure both of us would agree it was a good run, though.

Patton: “We could have probably squeezed out a couple more records but the collective personality of this group became so dysfunctional, this band was poisoned by one person's petty jealousy and insecurity, and it led us to a slow, unnatural death. And I'm at peace with that, because I know I tried all I could.”

To be honest I would not know whose side to take on that without more inside knowledge - they both say more or less the same thing about the other in different ways (Trey somewhat more magnaminously, granted).

it's definitely one of those "i wasn't there, i don't know" things for me, and they've worked together since then anyway.

Thanks for sharing that Kurt. Secret Chiefs rule hard live...it's a shame the only time I've seen Patton was Peeping Tom which was like the diluted version of everything that makes Patton good.

Only time I've seen Patton was in 96 with FNM, should probably keep it that way.

Fantomas videos rule hard live though, especially with Terry Bozzio

Ha, it's like their first criteria was a bigger kit than Lombardo's.

It's been over a decade since I've followed Mike Patton religiously, but didn't he do a song with Secret Chiefs at some point in the last few years? That seemed to bode wel for a possible Bungle reunion, but of course it didn't happen.

I liked the Fantomas lineup with Crover a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwERjFal7Rs

Jackie, the jacque brel one?

with Secret Chiefs

Pretty awesome, though hard not to hear Walker's version in the back of my head

holy crap i didn't know about that track. it's great!!!

Seemed to put to rest any hard feelings between the two at the time.

I don't think Mike's been too prolific lately anyway. I heard one track from the album with the guy from TV on the Radio. It was really, really, really bad. That came out in the last year or two, right?

Yeah, doesn't seem like he's been up to much. Nevermen album was bad, but the Boards of Canada remix of Mr Mistake is great.

Was going to make a smartass comment about wasn't there talk about a FNM reunion album at some point OH WAIT but then I just realized that that was two years ago and now I feel old and sad, wondering where it is that time goes when it slips through my fingers unnoticed.

There was also that new FNM album..never really heard it

I liked it at first. Haven't really thought about it since.

Cone of Shame, Matador and Separation Anxiety are pretty rocking.

Was going to make a smartass comment about wasn't there talk about a FNM reunion album at some point OH WAIT but then I just realized that that was two years ago and now I feel old and sad, wondering where it is that time goes when it slips through my fingers unnoticed.

― The twin snake of violence and sex is more like a sick wolf. (Old Lunch), Thursday, March 9, 2017 9:09 AM (fifty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the original reformation was in 2009

which makes me feel old and sad lol

FNM reunion album =a good album, nothing spectacular

I just checked out the Ipecac site for the first time in years and it's just a huge list of Omar Rodriguez-Lopez releases. Damn.

The only album I've listened to on Ipecac recently is A Raw Youth by Le Butcherettes.

Which was produced by Omar Rodriguez-Lopez.

King For A Day is fkn genius

Angel Dust makes me feel like I'm in high school (in a good way)

The Real Thing still surprises me, even now it sounds exciiting

My personal accounting of albums to listen to on a Walkman while mowing the lawn: Physical Graffiti, Superunknown, The Real Thing

(Oh, and I listened to the first Comus album when I mowed my mom's yard a few years ago, that was pretty ace but it was not on a Walkman.)

just imagining the neighbor's kids running home crying cos the man next door is screaming "SURPRISE! YOU'RE DEAD!" while mowing the lawn

FTR I was like thirteen when I was screaming "SURPRISE! YOU'RE DEAD!" and making kids run home crying.

My very obnoxious friend put "The Bends" from Disco Volante on full blast on his car and we drove around suburban Dallas with his windows rolled all the way down. So many nasty looks. I think that's the one with all the horrible noise. It's been a while.

if i had had a cell phone in 1993, be aggressive would have been my ringtone

I love it how the vocal approach that Patton utilised on The Real Thing only lasted for that album!

Looks like Kaada and Patton did another album in 2016 in re: to what Patton's been up to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PohCD7Umz98

That video's good, but I wouldn't listen to a whole album of stuff like that really.

I just checked out the Ipecac site for the first time in years and it's just a huge list of Omar Rodriguez-Lopez releases. Damn.

― afriendlypioneer, Thursday, March 9, 2017 1:28 PM (two weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok i just went to spotify and looked up holy fuck he releases like 6 records a year!!

I owned the real thing on cassette was I was 10 years old and bought angel dust when I was 13. I wasnt able to appreciate most of it at the time but I'd like to think I got some good musical education in my yoof.

i spent hours with the real thing cassette. it had a massive fold-out lyric card, i can still remember the smell, vaguely tortilla-like, strangely

I remember first hearing it on a Boy Scout campout and some kids in another tent were listening to Surprise, You're Dead and we all thought it was the funniest thing we'd ever heard in music. Then at the end of the side, the guy goes to flip the tape over and it's blue, which is also what happened to our minds at that moment.

I also want to brag about owning 'Easy' on cassingle. and I still have it in my car.

The Real Thing also contains some songs I don't dig on; Falling to Pieces is way up on that list.

I used to think this song was so trite, but these days it really captures my middle-aged anxiety.

Also, hooky as hell!

Yeah I literally just read the title and now it's on repeat in my head.

The only song I wish wasn't there is 'Edge of the World' which isn't good enough to overcome its unnecessary creepiness.

Yeah, obviously a character study, but I've never found it entertaining either. Fortunately, it's not on the vinyl version of the album.

I mowed the lawn so many times in eighth grade while listening to The Real Thing that it's now pretty much inextricable from that activity in my mind. You might say it made lawn care seem...epic.

My teenage lawn care headphone fodder was the second Dirty Rotten Imbeciles album. To tell you the truth, I would have rather been sleeping, but I was no couch slouch - I was out there dealing with it!

The real answer to this is 'King For A Day... Fool For A Lifetime'

what is the lawn-moving factor on that one?

'Caralho Voador' a nice time to pause for a refreshing glass of lemonade before digging in and giving that grass the 'Ugly in the Morning' business.

The Patton albums - Angel Dust>KFaD>Real Thing>Album of the Year

I used to listen to the blue cassette of The Real Thing on my yellow sports walkman while mowing the lawn when I was 15/16, along with Ride the Lightning and the Doors greatest hits.

That album was a huge deal to me, but in retrospect it might have been bad for prompting a strong desire to find bands that combined funk/rap/metal which in fact were all pretty terrible.

'Caralho Voador' a nice time to pause for a refreshing glass of lemonade before digging in and giving that grass the 'Ugly in the Morning' business.

This is a fine sentence. Anyway I wish that two of my favorite songs weren't called Cuckoo For Caca and Jizzlobber but what can I do, they shred.

I adore 'Falling to Pieces' off The Real Thing.

Slightly off topic but I can't imagine how many times I've watched the 'Everything's Ruined' official vid. Patton at his coolest, the band at their most melodic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usGQjN87BUA

I used to think this song was so trite, but these days it really captures my middle-aged anxiety.

― ☮ (peace, man), Tuesday, November 19, 2019 7:36 AM bookmarkflaglink

Feelin this post lol

Haven't listened to this band in ages but y'all are making me want to dig up the albums again. Angel Dust = King for a Day = great. about half of Album of the Year is at the same level. Actually never heard The Real Thing! I'm not much a fan of the three songs I know from it besides "Epic", and that last one I've heard enough times in my life

I could do without the surgery shots, but that "Everything's Ruined" video is really charming

I have no idea what it would be like approaching The Real Thing for the first time in 2019 and especially after hearing everything they released afterwards but that thing was pretty central to my jr. high existence for a good year, year and a half. I'd guess yr attention would trail off towards the end ('War Pigs' cover, instrumental track, lounge-y number with questionable lyrical content) but the rest is tite.

I imagine approaching it for the first time in 2019 would be great because the album is great and super catchy and fun.

Oh I've heard the "War Pigs" cover, I didn't realize it was on the album. I'm indifferent to it. Actually, looking at the tracklist, I realize I've heard six (!) of the tracks before, should just hear those last five for completeness. Of the ones I know, I don't think the songs are all that bad, but the sound is a little thin and Mike's voice is quite nasal, as was mentioned upthread

Yeah, that stuff is dated and also things they pivoted from with "Angel Dust." But the songs are solid.

Mike's voice is quite nasal

He's said he was putting that on as he thought that was how hard rock singers 'should' sound - helps to remember he was only 19/20 when they recorded it. Don't think he found himself vocally until Angel Dust, a big part of why it's a better album.

I've definitely heard The Real Thing and Angel Dust but I grew up with King For A Day and it just feels so... consistent in its eclecticism? I know AD is the fan's choice but it's spikier and less of a piece. KFAD just flows from idea to idea really nicely for me

As a huge fan of the previous two albums in real time, I'm oddly not into King for a Day.

Same here, I loved the previous two but just didn't like King for a Day at all when it came out nor any of the times after. I'm listening to Real Thing - AOTY in order right now for the first time in years and I'm curious to see if I feel differently about it now.

The release of King for a Day... was a legit 'counting down the days' EVENT. The album fell far short of those monumental expectations but I'm not sure to what extent the album itself is at fault.

Hell, Songs to Make Love To was a similar EVENT in my little world.

i was a big FNM fan based on the real thing and angel dust and while i didn't love KFAD as much as those two, there are some great songs on there

Is everyone in this revive ignoring Sol Invictus deliberately or

NO! i'm legitimately forgetting that it ever existed

It's a forgettable album imo. I don't remember it being bad per se, but I listened to it several times and can't remember a damn thing now. And for FNM that feels like a failure?

KFAD just flows from idea to idea really nicely for me

I'd say this more about AD! The genre experiments on KFaD feel more compartmentalised (a metal song, then a loungy r&b song, then another metal song, then a big band pastiche), whereas AD is this contastly shifting and surging stew of textures and ideas.

I woke up and put AD on. It's a really great album but I'm less familiar with it than KFAD, clearly. I feel like the vocals on KFAD are a lot more prominent than Angel Dust - like on Angel Dust they're mixed so low Patton gets lost on there.
Ugly In The Morning, Evidence, Cuckoo For Caca, Digging The Grave - all god-tier FNM in my book. And you know I'm a sucker for a good 90s genre-experiment album. Totally get why people prefer the previous two records though. 100% a matter of familiarity.

Yeah the mix of Angel Dust is a little muddy sometimes.

Angel Dust is pretty mysterious to me, in that the band started to lose its luster as soon as Jim was fired (see: S-K thread), so my brain assumed he was responsible for all those awesome hooks and cool arrangements. Except the reason he was fired was for supposedly barely contributing to Angel Dust, so it's odd to me that nothing they did since featured that same mix of giant hooks and (er) epically shifting arrangements (imo).

I never felt Patton was buried in the mix on AD, fwiw.

Angel Dust is a strong contender for my vote in that hot new poll that absolutely everyone is talking about, Roughly contemporaneous albums that I acquired during my first two years of high school.

It was just as totemic as The Real Thing, just a couple years further down the road (see also, albeit to a lesser extent: the first Mr. Bungle album).

I had no idea Courtney Love was the singer in FNM for a little while... She was all over the place wasn't she?

I love King For a Day. Angel Dust has it's high points, but feels like a semi-awkward transition album between original Faith No More and KFAD-era. On Angel Dust, which is really remarkable for its experimentation, Jim Martin's chunka chunka guitar tone really makes the whole thing sound cluttered, even though it's further back in the mix. Like, the band is audibly changing and he's kinda staying his course.

Although I miss Roddy on the songs where he is absent on KFAD, the sound they get on that album is just fucking killer. For sure, my second-favorite overall album. First is Introduce Yourself although side B of The Real Thing is my favorite run of songs (i.e. The Real Thing>Underwater Love>The Morning After>Woodpecker From Mars).

Yeah.. I feel like songs like 'Small Victory' have a smadge of classic rock blandness to them whereas KFAD is very much 'the sound' of FNM to me. Not sure if it's just the album covers but AD is a bright daytime 'yo yo yo' sounding album to me, whereas KFAD is cloaked in this portentous, dusky lycanthropic veneer

Your perception re: those two albums is the exact polar opposite of my own.

Basically:

Angel Dust = 'My skin is a layer of soot. I'm spending my days scrubbing.'
King for a Day... = 'Take it from our drummer, Puff: being good, it gets you stuff!'

hahaha I've never seen that last lyric written down

And to be clear, I'm not suggesting that either album skews heavily in either direction (given the band's eclecticism) but the lyrics I cite reflect the mood I generally associate with the respective albums.

Didn't the KDAF era have a song called 'I Wanna Fuck Myself'?

I had no idea Courtney Love was the singer in FNM for a little while... She was all over the place wasn't she?

― YOU CALL THIS JOURNALSIM? (dog latin), Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:14 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

iirc early early faith no more didn't have a permanent singer, they had a rotation of vocalists, so i had assumed that's when "was the singer for FNM" but i could be totally wrong

IIRC she was a school friend of Roddy's and was something of a founding member. She was in before Jim, I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPQObpikKo0

She was the second Faith No More vocalist and according to wikipedia lasted from 1982-1984, but I have no idea how many shows or how much activity that represents.

Except the reason he was fired was for supposedly barely contributing to Angel Dust

I've seen some amusing AD era footage of Big Jim moaning about how wacky the other guys' ideas are.

songs like 'Small Victory' have a smadge of classic rock blandness to them

I love the stadium rock influences in AD! How they take these very radio friendly hooks and put them in a spiky, absurdist, post-punky context.

Jim Martin basically the Mike Love of FNM except instead of wanting to reheat the same tepid surf tunes for decades and be the angriest practitioner of TM on planet earth he just wants to grow giant pumpkins.

I think The Real Thing's more consistent, but the peaks in Angel Dust are higher. Both are amazing, and I've always assumed what Martin was responsible for were those gigantic killer guitar riffs, which FNM would never ever produce again.

I suppose what's missing in the post-Angel Dust output are those catchy Bottum piano lines. From then on he went mostly for the atmosphere? And I'm not sure it was down to the band going in a different, more Patton-controlled direction.

Pumpkins and oil are robbing us of two of the greatest guitar players alive in the shapes of Jim Martin and John Squire.

I suppose what's missing in the post-Angel Dust output are those catchy Bottum piano lines. From then on he went mostly for the atmosphere? And I'm not sure it was down to the band going in a different, more Patton-controlled direction.

what's also missing, I meant

Jim Martin was good for adding the big dumb metal riffs cos that was his thing.

Spruance had a lot more range and variety in his playing. Sometimes i don't think it fit FNM but I do enjoy King for a Day.

AOTY is a good album but it suffers from lack of audible bass and personality-less guitar playing. I love "Stripsearch".

Sol Invictus's problem isn't that it isn't good, it's that it's like an entire album of their b-material and not much really hits major heights. I've barely returned to it.

It's like they did an album full of "RV" songs

Oh god I forgot Sol Invictus. Had about a month of thinking it was decent then never listened to it again.

I love Stripsearch too.

I also love RV!

I do too! But that song benefits from being a sorbet after three high energy tunes to begin AD.

If all i get is sorbet i get sick.

ILX ate my previous attempt at saying as much but: I have yet to really check out any of the 21st Century comeback albums from the bands I dug in my teens. Feels like I'd be courting disappointment. I think I heard one song from Sol Invictus and it was fine but not exactly a rousing endorsement to go all-in.

Separation Anxiety, Cone of Shame and Matador are the good tracks as far as I remember.

I suppose what's missing in the post-Angel Dust output are those catchy Bottum piano lines. From then on he went mostly for the atmosphere? And I'm not sure it was down to the band going in a different, more Patton-controlled direction.

Roddy was on heroin for a fair amount of this time.

The biography Small Victories, released last year, is a decent read for those interested.

Is being on heroin known to make one compose catchier piano lines?

Shoulda heard Brad Nowell's unfinished etudes

xp: Vernon was explaining that's why he has fewer contributions.

Thanks for the book recommendation!

Is being on heroin known to make one compose catchier piano lines?

The evidence (Bill Evans, Brad Mehldau) would suggest the opposite. Though Sonny Clark was pretty great.

Man, Evidence is so good. They were really good at that 'late night search for a car' laidback funk rnb vibe (Stripsearch too)

"I had no idea Courtney Love was the singer in FNM for a little while" . so was Paula Frazer from Tarnation, for one show. There's a fairly poor sounding recording of it floating around. She told me she thought it was awful but I think it's pretty good, sounds like Siouxsie.

I don't think Sol Invictus is any worse than any of the other post Angel Dust albums. None of them do much for me. Angel Dust was epochal for me but then my tastes went elsewhere.

Vernon was explaining that's why he has fewer contributions.

yeah, exactly. apols for the lack of clarity, must be the heroin.

In other news,

psssst... pic.twitter.com/yKxiM2913S

— Faith No More (@FaithNoMore) November 23, 2019

They were great on that little tour they did behind the last album.

I missed it because I was out of town so I certainly hope to catch them again. I haven't seen them since the Angel Dust tour and that was a fucking show.

Christ, I've never seen them. Maybe this will be the year!

they were fun. threw Boz Scagg's "Lowdown" into the middle of "Midlife Crisis", did pretty much all of my favorite songs...except "Land of Sunshine", sadly.

Patton ended the show by simulating giving a blow job to the microphone for the last minute then just walked offstage.

The biography Small Victories, released last year, is a decent read for those interested.

Yeah, I'm definitely interested. Thanks for the heads up!

I remember reading somewhere back in the day that there was a rift between Martin and Bottum which ended up hurting them both, with Martin leaving and Bottum getting sidelined. But I can't remember hearing about that again so I'm not sure there was any truth to it.

Weird to see so many FNM fans on here given the relative dearth of Mr Bungle threads on ILM! I recently revisited the s/t and DV and both hold up pretty well (though parts of s/t have definitely aged pretty poorly)

I've never gotten into Mr. Bungle, despite loving Faith No More and Zorn/Naked City. I just don't like Bungle's players that much.

Patton ended the show by simulating giving a blow job to the microphone for the last minute then just walked offstage.

The ultimate Mike Patton story is the one about the Farriss brothers from INXS ringing him to ask if he wanted to be their frontman for their upcoming tour. He replied that he would do it on one condition . . . that he be allowed to re-enact Hutchence's death on stage every night.

As for FNM themselves, listened to them a fair bit back in the day (early 1990s) because I had a friend at the time who was hugely into them, but I'd imagine a lot of it hasn't dated too well.

but I'd imagine a lot of it hasn't dated too well

IDK. Every now and then I go back to the hits and I find it surprising how well they hold up. That combination of erasure + funk metal should be a train wreck but the way they embrace every hook that's available is really overwhelming. Really, they overwhelm you with hooks.

I've never gotten into Mr. Bungle, despite loving Faith No More and Zorn/Naked City. I just don't like Bungle's players that much.

You've listened to California right? Far and away their most cohesive (and least frenetic) album. One of my two fave Patton records, along with Angel Dust.

I saw them live in September of 1992 (with Helmet opening) and they were great - I remember them playing Europe's "The The Final Countdown" as they came on stage and all ran around doing calisthenics and my cousin fulfilled his dream of crowd surfing while they played "RV".

I've listened to KFAD and AOTY again for the first time in ages and they still don't do much for me - not terrible or anything, they just feel lackluster compared to the previous two and are kind of boring. It turns out I really like Jim Martin's big dumb riffs and that feels absent in both of these which feel more generic-metally to me, or sound more like Mr. Bungle in a way that I didn't want from my FNM records.

xpost I haven't listened to California since it came out, and I saw them on that tour. I remember it being kind of lounge music? Sort of more the direction of some of other Mike Patton's other projects. That is to say, I don't remember much of a metal or noise aspect to it.

California is fucking fantastic. it has "Retrovertigo", which is a weird power ballad. "Sweet Charity" does have kind of a seaside feel, but it's a great song.

there are definitely heavy moments on it. it's just less experimental than Disco Volante, but that's a relative statement. it was one of my favorite albums of that year.

To say it has a loungy feel is fair, but the dark weirdness is still there, albeit more subtly than on previous albums. Kind of a Blue Velvet vibe.

I just don't remember it at all, any more than I remember Lovage or Tomahawk (both of whom I saw live as well). However, I did like Fantomas, that scratched the weird metal itch for me.

Be interesting to hear your reaction if you do decide to listen to it again.

Listening to it now, and enjoying!

Didn't the KDAF era have a song called 'I Wanna Fuck Myself'?

this was a GG Allin cover version, and a good one at that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3vx8u7k6Rc

Speaking of Patton and (intentional) assholery, per the INXS anecdote (whether or not it is real). I remember hearing about them having a miserable time opening for GNR in Europe, culminating (supposedly) with Patton taking a shit into Axl's stage shoes or something.

(LOL it was supposedly not his stage shoes but into his orange juice carton! And the FNM camp has denied it, so oh well.)

Though I did find this catalog of him pooping and peeing on or in everything. True or not, esp. from a famed bullshitter, it's certainly ... gross.

http://www.faithnomorefollowers.com/2017/02/diary-of-shit-terrorist.html

I fell into some sort of wikipedia worm hole and didn't know that three members of the band were a third - Preston Lea Spruance III, Roswell Christopher Bottum III, and Charles Henry Mosley III.

I guess that's why they called him Tre

I've never gotten into Mr. Bungle, despite loving Faith No More and Zorn/Naked City. I just don't like Bungle's players that much.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, November 25, 2019 9:49 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Ah, see I'm something of a Trevor Dunn superfan, so it's the opposite for me (I really like Spruance too)

I still can't believe Jim Martin was in Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey

Station!

The ultimate Mike Patton story is the one about the Farriss brothers from INXS ringing him to ask if he wanted to be their frontman for their upcoming tour. He replied that he would do it on one condition . . . that he be allowed to re-enact Hutchence's death on stage every night.

― does it look like i'm here (jon123)

i feel like patton was just really into autoerotic asphyxiation

he also wrote that song "dead goon" for the first mr. bungle album

the only song from "angel dust" i have still in my library is "malpractice", i don't know if anybody ever talks about it but i listened to the whole album at some point between 2009 and 2016 and that song stood out as the highlight

Speaking of Patton and (intentional) assholery, per the INXS anecdote (whether or not it is real). I remember hearing about them having a miserable time opening for GNR in Europe, culminating (supposedly) with Patton taking a shit into Axl's stage shoes or something.

Patton's big thing back then was what he referred to as "shit terrorism". Find a hairdryer in someone's hotel room, take a dump in it, screw the front back on, then carnage would ensue the next time somebody switched the hairdryer on.

A very odd man.

Yeah, I became much less enamored of him as a personality the more stories like this I heard.

I posted a link to a full catalog of his tall tales. which may in fact be just that, bullshit.

It can't be a coincidence that the bands he is always accused of feuding with, like guns n' roses or the red hot chili peppers, seem like the biggest assholes of all time.

Has to be full of it cos most of those would be arrestable offenses

Good point, rock bands would never do anything illegal on the road.

Difference between "trashing a hotel room" and "giving someone an e coli infection".

Dave Matthews hasn't recovered from dumping shit and piss on innocent bystanders

And then there was the Chicago River Incident

Replacements used to put a dead fish in hotel ice dispensers, iirc. And God knows where they peed.

Speaking words of wisdom....