Once the Inevitable 90s Revival occurs which genre will be the most influetial or popular?

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As we have seen with the 80's revival not all genres came back in fashion (e.g. pop metal). I wonder which genres from the 90s will be popular. I think that 90s indie guitar music will be the most popular.

micheline, Friday, 19 March 2010 14:53 (fourteen years ago) link

Maple Leaf Rag

Mr. Que, Friday, 19 March 2010 14:54 (fourteen years ago) link

late-90s Mook Rap-Rock. hell, this almost sounds contemporary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Jp3w8Z10s

just add a little autotune

Plop! (herb albert), Friday, 19 March 2010 14:58 (fourteen years ago) link

"I think that 90s indie guitar music will be the most popular."

I can't wait!!!

Evan, Friday, 19 March 2010 15:03 (fourteen years ago) link

A word of warning:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/mar/18/alphabeat-la-roux-goldfrapp-90s-revival

Ned Raggett, Friday, 19 March 2010 15:06 (fourteen years ago) link

there was so much anti-eighties rhetoric in the nineties, iirc, that its revival seemed unlikely. (i guess the 90s was my first go-round as a person as well: i hadn't figured out how these things work.) there doesn't seem to be as radical a disjuncture between the nineties and now, though, not by comparison.

reivials of daft punk, massive attack, portishead, nirvana -- sure not to blow anyone's mind.

lipster grifter (history mayne), Friday, 19 March 2010 15:14 (fourteen years ago) link

there was so much anti-eighties rhetoric in the nineties, iirc, that its revival seemed unlikely. (i guess the 90s was my first go-round as a person as well: i hadn't figured out how these things work.) there doesn't seem to be as radical a disjuncture between the nineties and now, though, not by comparison.

reivials of daft punk, massive attack, portishead, nirvana -- sure not to blow anyone's mind.

I see what you're saying but I really have a hard time seeing early rave coming back into style.

micheline, Friday, 19 March 2010 15:17 (fourteen years ago) link

i thought it already had?!

lipster grifter (history mayne), Friday, 19 March 2010 15:18 (fourteen years ago) link

Bigger beat.

Lo-fi supersaw ish.

Indie bands will have breakbeats not disco beats.

Animal Bitrate (Raw Patrick), Friday, 19 March 2010 15:20 (fourteen years ago) link

90s revivalism pretty big among UK wtfeverstep merchants, whether it's Zomby rave nostalgia, Joker and Ikonika sampling old MegaDrive games, Subeena's general Warpiness... whether this actually informs any new UK pop idk

mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 19 March 2010 15:22 (fourteen years ago) link

"guys guys guys there is SO MUCH incredible rock from the 90's that far outstrips what came before. fair enough if you prefer earlier stuff, but for me the watershed came around the time of Talk Talk's fruition. after that, bands realised that any sound was within their grasp, any texture was possible, and they began to reach higher and higher within the parameters of 'rock'. that comment about 'bush' being a typical 90's rock group just saddens me. on the one hand we had shoegaze, on the other post-rock, on the other we had stuff like Blur and Spiritualized and The Boo Radleys and SFA, then we had old-time rockers gone all weird and modern, like Soundgarden (who kicked more ass than just about every previous heavy-metal band I've heard, no really), we had sonic youth's 'washing machine' which is clearly a lot better than 'daydream nation' (no, it is), we had Beck, we had The Boredoms (I mean SRSLY), we had Levitation, we had Earth, Neurosis, Godflesh, and other great experimental metal bands, then we had the Flaming Lips (their 90's albums are GREAT), we had MERCURY FUCKING REV (whose first two albums do 'noise-pop' better than ANYONE), we had the rise and rise of Foetus ('Flow' is IMO a lot better than the earlier 'Nail'), we had Lusk, we had ORBITAL who weren't really rock but FUCK WE HAD ORBITAL ORBITAL ORBITAL and a load of other SUPREME electronic artists (Plaid, Aphex Twin etc), then we had Radiohead (I don't care what you say, they are revered for a fucking good reason), we had Scott Walker's 'Tilt' to keep us on our toes, we had Six By Seven, The Beta Band...."

Freddy 'The Wonder Chicken' (Gukbe), Friday, 19 March 2010 15:23 (fourteen years ago) link

i thought it already had?!

You mean with the Klaxons. I never really bought the idea that they were nu-rave or whatever it's called.

micheline, Friday, 19 March 2010 15:25 (fourteen years ago) link

It'll've to be genres that were innovative to some extent but that took a different route from what they might've - so maybe shoegaze, drum&bass, or whatever genre Jane's Addiction were. No point reviving britpop cos you couldn't do anything with it, you might as well just rerelease Parklife.

Ismael Klata, Friday, 19 March 2010 15:29 (fourteen years ago) link

It'll've to be genres that were innovative to some extent but that took a different route from what they might've - so maybe shoegaze, drum&bass, or whatever genre Jane's Addiction were. No point reviving britpop cos you couldn't do anything with it, you might as well just rerelease Parklife.

OTM. What would also be nice would be combining the best of the 80s revival with 90s revival.

micheline, Friday, 19 March 2010 15:41 (fourteen years ago) link

revivals of daft punk, massive attack, portishead, nirvana -- sure not to blow anyone's mind.

xpost - especially since they all put out critically acclaimed records in the past year

seems like alot of 00s UK Indie was doing that, sampling specific riffs/sounds from 80s/90s US Alternative guitar bands.

Plop! (herb albert), Friday, 19 March 2010 15:45 (fourteen years ago) link

The nineties' collective memory largely saw the eighties as a monstrous joke. Like Kylie'n'Jason in a Sigue Sigue Sputnik video piercing each others ears with paperclips while their shellsuits combust to the sound of an irritating slap-bass section. And that's pretty much how I, as a young lad in the '90s, saw them too - "The decade fashion forgot" etc. But by 2001 there wasn't anything trendier than eyeliner, 808s and synthetic fabrics.

I'm sure in the eighties, people managed to draw from an unlimited source of humour based around people wearing bell-bottom jeans. By the '90s, everyone and their Mum was all "Flares are back, y'know, what's the world coming to?".

Further into the 00's the eighties revival was less about tongue-in-cheek fads and more about revisiting things that had been wiped from the consciousness of the general public in the 90s, i.e. post-punk, electro etc. A bit like having a good poke around the attic and finding stuff you'd completely forgotten you had.

The '90s didn't really have enough wacky fashion styles to laugh at, but certain things are definitely being come-round to. To take a random example - Grunge - which was even at the time derided by a Radio 1 DJ as being "the sound of someone whimpering in a chair and then screaming like he's been hit over the head with a saucepan" - I don't think people these days would be so critical about the best of it. Definitely the post-grunge barrel-scraping that went on after Kurt's death didn't help between then and now, but for every Silverchair there was an Alice In Chains, for every Puddle Of Mudd there was a Soundgarden.

Britpop's due a reassessment. I'll always stand up for it, despite having been told (mostly by music critics 10+ years older than me) that Britpop was nothing but a derivative, retrospective, rockist, media-manufactured, even racist movement that did nothing for music. Personally, I think this is the biggest load of bullshit. Sure you had a few uninspired bandwagon jumpers (like with every genre), and yes as a scene it was largely a media fabrication (like every genre). But as Tom Ewing says in his article, the fact Oasis (not my favourite band but w/e) sounded a bit like Quo/Beatles/TRex didn't really matter to me or any of the kids in our school at the time. As for accusations of racism, I'm not even going to start.

Something I think will definitely see a revival, particularly among the student crowd, will be a major rediscovering of the hiphop and r'n'b anthems that made it big in the 90s. In a way some of these (Boom Shake The Room, Jump Around) never left the student dancefloor. But add a bit of K7, Arrested Development, Young Disciples, Shanice, Fugees, Jade, Apache Indian etc and you've got a party that will appeal to pretty much anyone these days.

dog latin, Friday, 19 March 2010 15:46 (fourteen years ago) link

The nineties' collective memory largely saw the eighties as a monstrous joke.

exactly -- and that never happened to the during the noughties. i don't think, anyway. trousers got tighter but there's no noughties equivalent to "the wedding singer" if you get me.

lipster grifter (history mayne), Friday, 19 March 2010 15:48 (fourteen years ago) link

I'd say that there's already a hipster revival of the aforementioned and this has been discussed on another thread, but all this Discovery / JJno2 / Dirty Projectors stuff sounds like indie kids trying to find something else to boost their sound without relying on the typical electro tropes and instead choosing New Jack Swing or something.

dog latin, Friday, 19 March 2010 15:52 (fourteen years ago) link

history mayne - exactly, as i said, the eighties had so much to take the mick out of them, they made the 90s look very sober. that said, i'm sure there are already myriad Madchester, Britpop and Grunge spoofs out there.

dog latin, Friday, 19 March 2010 15:55 (fourteen years ago) link

there are. kasabian. kaiser chiefs. the worst parts of britpop never died, sadly.
then your nickelbacks and your daughtrys on the grunge side.
the xx are basically trip hop aren't they?

Jamie_ATP, Friday, 19 March 2010 17:35 (fourteen years ago) link

then your nickelbacks and your daughtrys on the grunge side.

But they really aren't though. Ugh.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 19 March 2010 17:38 (fourteen years ago) link

the two other comparisons are just as off-base

mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 19 March 2010 17:40 (fourteen years ago) link

dubstep is basically trip hop tho isn't it?

nakhchivan, Friday, 19 March 2010 17:41 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, I wonder if trip-hop ever really went away. In any case, it's definitely back.

o. nate, Friday, 19 March 2010 17:41 (fourteen years ago) link

K7 - never heard of them
Arrested Development - absolutely awful, awful band. hated them at the time. still hate them.
Young Disciples - falls under the "music you are ashamed to have purchased" thread. terrible.
Shanice - never heard of them
Fugees - ugh no
Jade, Apache Indian - never heard of either

that is the most random, non-representative sampling I have ever seen of 90s hip-hop/r&b are u british or something

famous for hating everything (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 19 March 2010 17:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Maybe we'll see kids doing moody sample collage like DJ Shadow again, except (!) using old DJ Shadow records for the samples.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 19 March 2010 17:44 (fourteen years ago) link

kaiser chiefs are kind of britpop (or they were last i heard). they're also kind of 2005.

lipster grifter (history mayne), Friday, 19 March 2010 17:45 (fourteen years ago) link

K7 - never heard of them

come baby come baby baby come come

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 19 March 2010 17:45 (fourteen years ago) link

you gotta give me lovin' and you gotta give me some

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 19 March 2010 17:46 (fourteen years ago) link

i thought they were the tampon ladies?

lipster grifter (history mayne), Friday, 19 March 2010 17:47 (fourteen years ago) link

come baby come baby baby come come

hahaha oh right THAT song. ugh

famous for hating everything (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 19 March 2010 17:48 (fourteen years ago) link

I dunno, industrial shock rock type stuff, maybe

Mister Jim, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:00 (fourteen years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnaRK8e_Ls0

drrrooppp wiiiinddd!

max arrrrrgh, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:02 (fourteen years ago) link

always feel like sampledelica (trip hop up to like french filter disco) was the defining sound of the 90's, sure it was a nostalgic decade, esp for the seventies, but the particular refractions of its influences has a very definite feel and aesthetic

plax (ico), Friday, 19 March 2010 18:03 (fourteen years ago) link

there was so much anti-eighties rhetoric in the nineties, iirc, that its revival seemed unlikely. (i guess the 90s was my first go-round as a person as well: i hadn't figured out how these things work.) there doesn't seem to be as radical a disjuncture between the nineties and now, though, not by comparison.

reivials of daft punk, massive attack, portishead, nirvana -- sure not to blow anyone's mind.

― lipster grifter (history mayne), Friday, 19 March 2010 15:14 (2 hours ago) Bookmark

yeah, i remember people being outraged by the idea of an 80s revival. zoot woman did an interview around 2001 where the journo was all like "but... thatcher and yuppies and blah blah blah... think of the children"

max arrrrrgh, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:05 (fourteen years ago) link

90s revivalism pretty big among UK wtfeverstep merchants, whether it's Zomby rave nostalgia, Joker and Ikonika sampling old MegaDrive games, Subeena's general Warpiness... whether this actually informs any new UK pop idk

― mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 19 March 2010 15:22 (2 hours ago) Bookmark

yeah, was just about to post something along these lines. i guess it started with burial bringing back the 2step beats.

max arrrrrgh, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:07 (fourteen years ago) link

Fugees - ugh no

s fucking b (for the rest of the post too)

mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 19 March 2010 18:09 (fourteen years ago) link

Reagan/Thatcher actually looking pretty good next to their 00s revival counterparts.

Philip Nunez, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:09 (fourteen years ago) link

A word of warning:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/mar/18/alphabeat-la-roux-goldfrapp-90s-revival

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 19 March 2010 15:06 (3 hours ago) Bookmark

whoever this "tom ewing" guy is, he obviously knows shit all about music.

max arrrrrgh, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:13 (fourteen years ago) link

*loud joyful bar banter suddenly stops, icy glares from everyone at "max arrrrgh"*

mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 19 March 2010 18:18 (fourteen years ago) link

Please no Arrested Development. They seem like the exact thing that doesn't get revived; a watered down version of Native Tongues rap, which I guess had too many reference to doo-doo to get a cross-the-board foist.

bendy, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:26 (fourteen years ago) link

and running through it were the huge, sad keyboard sounds of 90s trance records – great glass spears of melancholy sending me back to a time I never realised I could miss

trance could be a key sign of a return of the repressed uk 90s, has the requisite emotional directness at the expense of tastefulness that revivalists like to fuck with oh so playfully

not the same with scandinavians doing it (even silent shout a bit i guess)

ardkore revival was always easier cos it was fairly clownish to begin with

nakhchivan, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:31 (fourteen years ago) link

whoever this "tom ewing" guy is, he obviously knows shit all about music.

Send in a clown -- don't bother, one's here.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:33 (fourteen years ago) link

the answer o the question is..... swing revival

lukevalentine, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:45 (fourteen years ago) link

We will see the true dawn of the Alexvanderpoolera
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mYA0gir4PA

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:50 (fourteen years ago) link

I could totally see more R&B vocal groups.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:51 (fourteen years ago) link

lol u kno i <3 ewing rly.

trance and garage is where it's at on the retro tip, super OBVS

max arrrrrgh, Friday, 19 March 2010 18:55 (fourteen years ago) link

I think dubstep has as much potential to branch into an IDM revival as it does a trip-hop revival.

Olivier Messiaen Control (Paul in Santa Cruz), Friday, 19 March 2010 19:00 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, trance is gonna make it's way into pop music.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:03 (fourteen years ago) link

Somehow...

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:03 (fourteen years ago) link

sampling will def come back big time. not that sampling was strictly a 90s phenomenon, but it seemed to permeate practically all forms of popular music apart from indie rock

maybe the korg microsampler will get people into sampling in the same way the microkorg got people into synths last decade

teresa banks (r1o natsume), Friday, 19 March 2010 19:04 (fourteen years ago) link

I think it might probably come as a natural transition between the late 80s and early 90s. Thinking about music and clothing - like the 'Graffiti Gear' windbreaker featuring Garfield as a muscle man in the following video - from 1991:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK4Rc0uuvIE

Artists like Tensnake and Joy Orbison sound at least to my ears like they are exploring that path and they seem to be getting favorable attention... might be another 3 or 4 years until it reaches the mainstream and makes it 'uncool' before we move to the teenage angst and nostalgia of the mid 90s.

Moka, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:12 (fourteen years ago) link

Sampling is welcome (although it never really went away.) Just please spare us the wall-of-drumloops that plagued mid-90s alt-rock.

Olivier Messiaen Control (Paul in Santa Cruz), Friday, 19 March 2010 19:13 (fourteen years ago) link

sampling is pretty complicated litigation-wise, doubt we'll ever see its revival on the scale of its prevalence in the 90s. it's just too expensive.

famous for hating everything (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 19 March 2010 19:15 (fourteen years ago) link

i think of the 80s as the really big sampladelic era ne way. that important gilbert o'sullivan vs biz markie (iirc) case was in about 1990 i think.

rip sarah silverman 3/19/10 never forget (history mayne), Friday, 19 March 2010 19:17 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah peak is like '87-'9something

famous for hating everything (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 19 March 2010 19:19 (fourteen years ago) link

sampling, trancey synths, 2step, boyzIImen early mariah TLC

plax (ico), Friday, 19 March 2010 19:21 (fourteen years ago) link

stickers/t-shirts of calvin peeing on things never really went away (though it is also a kind of sampling)

Philip Nunez, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:23 (fourteen years ago) link

The nineties' collective memory largely saw the eighties as a monstrous joke.

exactly -- and that never happened to the during the noughties. i don't think, anyway. trousers got tighter but there's no noughties equivalent to "the wedding singer" if you get me.

What about Eurodance? I'm sure to many people stuff like this feels as corny now as 80s lipstick pop felt in the 90s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH7Mn5fHmNI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKuRn8gjMhs

Somehow I feel this isn't gonna be the style the inevitable 90s revivalists are going to bite.

Tuomas, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:25 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah you might be right, but that stuff was always seen as slightly cheesy

i guess i mean that even stuff that was "taken seriously" in the 1980s (yeah yeah, needs unpacking) wasn't much loved in the 1990s

or so it seemed to me

rip sarah silverman 3/19/10 never forget (history mayne), Friday, 19 March 2010 19:27 (fourteen years ago) link

also surely the "uncool" stuff is exactly the stuff that *will* get revived?

rip sarah silverman 3/19/10 never forget (history mayne), Friday, 19 March 2010 19:28 (fourteen years ago) link

Though if this style is gonna come back in vogue, I'm gonna be so happy, because those were THE BEST DAYS EVER!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BhueqxT4Ss

Tuomas, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:30 (fourteen years ago) link

also surely the "uncool" stuff is exactly the stuff that *will* get revived?

When the first ironic Eurorapper shows up I'm gonna believe you, but not quite yet.

Tuomas, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:31 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah you might be right, but that stuff was always seen as slightly cheesy

Not if you were a "rave" teenager back then.

Tuomas, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:32 (fourteen years ago) link

sampling, trancey synths, 2step, boyzIImen early mariah TLC

― plax (ico)

This could be true for independent and underground musicians for the following 2 years but as home production becomes more advanced independent artists will be able to gather influence from genres with more complex production (as opposed to garage rock, lo-fi, "chillwave", folk and all sample based music that dominates the scene). Mainstream will likely continue to evolve and might be drawing inspiration from the underground scene in the 00's rather than from the 90s.

I don't really see rock making an important comeback anytime soon.

also surely the "uncool" stuff is exactly the stuff that *will* get revived?

― rip sarah silverman 3/19/10 never forget (history mayne)

Yes, reviving crap is all part of the the hipsters' ironic nature. What I meant is that it will become uncool once the mainstream catches unto it, then hipster musicians will have to review their kitsch history and move to another spot.

Moka, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:32 (fourteen years ago) link

But then I constantly think of the new generations as some sort of punk identity with no real idealism and who just love pranking their mediatic environment.

Moka, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:35 (fourteen years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul_hcxlA5KU

I used to dress up like this back in the 90s... Except that I had more colourful clothes, like orange baggy jeans and neon green rave shirts. If the 2010s kids will find it cool again, that'll be AWESOME!

Tuomas, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:39 (fourteen years ago) link

Which come to think of it might just be some sort of 80s subconcious revival where it's all fun and games and nobody really has a strong opinion or hates deeply or gives a shit about science or politics. New generations might have to deal with it and suddenly wham here comes a 90s social revival of depression and sectarianism.

Moka, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:40 (fourteen years ago) link

the 80s being blissfully free of depression and sectarianism

nakhchivan, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:41 (fourteen years ago) link

bobby sands revival we hardly knew u

nakhchivan, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Well, sure no decade or century for the matter has been truly free from depression or sectarianism, but I sort of have the idea that in the 80s and 00s people preferred to get distracted from them and subconciously avoid them while in the 90s generations seemed to want to gorge on them.

Moka, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:47 (fourteen years ago) link

the depressive 90s (which is like mnstrm singer songwriter, postgrunge, maybe britpop afterbirth?) will be difficult for revivalists because the sentiment is usually conveyed in rote minor key mopiness rather than any coherent aesthetic ready for reappropriation

nakhchivan, Friday, 19 March 2010 19:58 (fourteen years ago) link

the 90s was a stitch, the 00's was a migrane. i think the 10's are shaping up to be a welt of some kind.

max arrrrrgh, Saturday, 20 March 2010 03:46 (fourteen years ago) link

Is there a name for that genre of turn-of-the-90s pop-rock with the positive vibes, huge guitar leads, and gated drums?

^^^ rooting for revival of this. But I'm not sure it will really pan out in the same way as 80s revivalism, for reasons already hinted at on this thread. 90s music, at least rhetorically, was supposed to be about either violent rejection of "80s things" or some kind of serious step forward for them. This is clearest with the hoary old "grunge killed hair metal" story, where the 80s were inauthentic and evil and the 90s brought something "real," but I think similar stuff was going on with gangsta rap being offered as something harder and more real than previous styles. This obviously doesn't cover or explain all musical developments in the decade, but it doesn't have to - - the reason why the 80s could be revived is that they were on some level suppressed.

That never happened with the 90s in the same way. Part of this may have to do with generational demographics, and the massive waves of teenagers kind of coming in at awkward times, always with older and younger siblings to maintain continuity through. I have students now who are 19 but know every word of "Ice Ice Baby." That is to say, they were born after the song was a hit and know it as if it were some sort of classic rock radio staple, which at least where I'm from it definitely is not, but who knows whether that proves anything.

But the relationship between 90s and 00s music has always felt, and been pitched as, more evolutionary than revolutionary. There are plenty of things that fell by the wayside and maybe some of them may come back; there's no genre of music whose typical product "sounds" the same as it would have ten years ago. I'm reminded of this inconclusive thread: The song that represents the END of the 90s which got as far as identifying a 3-5 year transition zone of stuff that was popular in the last couple years of the 90s and first couple years of the 00s that seemed really foreign to a general conception of what either the 90s or the 00s "sounded like." If you need a three-year transition zone, there may not be enough of a rejection to give rise to later revival.

Although I think the "positive vibes" bands belong to a similar "transition zone," so maybe all of this looks a lot more orderly with 20 years' distance rather than 10.

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 20 March 2010 05:06 (fourteen years ago) link

That's an interesting point, in the 80s album poll we had a similar discussion about whether or not 90s popular music distanced itself from 80s music - was it more "hard" and "keeping it real"? You can read the discussion here (after my post you have scroll down a bit for Contenderizer's answer, and that's where the discussion starts):

Now this is how it started: THE ILX 1980s ALBUM POLL RESULTS!!

I agree that there doesn't seem to be such a clear, conscious break between the 90s and the 00s. I guess one of the most visible signs of 00s starting was the back-to-the-basics rock revivalism of The Strokes et al, but it doesn't really signify a big break from the 90s, as nineties rock wasn't particularly proggy either. And another big change, which relates to the above, was electronic music dropping largely out of the mainstream and going back underground, at least for the first part of the decade. But again, it doesn't feel like there was any "fuck 90s!" sentiment behind that change.

I'm not sure if I get your demographic explanation though... Weren't there more teenagers in the 90s than in the 00s?

Tuomas, Saturday, 20 March 2010 10:24 (fourteen years ago) link

Hopefully the 90s will never be revived. They deserve to be forever buried, the same way those metallic digital/FN synth sounds of the late 80s/early 90s thankfully never ever seem to be revived.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 20 March 2010 11:21 (fourteen years ago) link

With respect to dance music, I don't think that there was a big break between the 80s and 90s. Techno and house music drew also inspiration from New Order, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys and Art of Noise. These bands also drew inspiration from those genres as well.

micheline, Saturday, 20 March 2010 14:05 (fourteen years ago) link

I had a conversation about this last night - is there anything from the 90s pop landscape that's worth saving? The musical palette turns me off completely in a way the 80s and 00s don't. I don't know if this is a residual of my most rockist period, but even the pop-rock stuff I liked in my early teens (Green Day/Bush/Foo Fighters) sounds rubbish to me now.

(I'm not saying there was nothing good in the 90s, just that what was good was happening way outside the pop mainstream)

seandalai, Saturday, 20 March 2010 14:13 (fourteen years ago) link

A lot of 90s rap and dance music was great, moreso than in the 00s, I would argue. And a lot rap and dance were in the pop mainstream back then. I'd definitely argue for saving stuff like G-funk or jungle or even rave.

Tuomas, Saturday, 20 March 2010 14:44 (fourteen years ago) link

Nowadays I don't think songs like "It's A Sin" or "Just Can't Get Enough" or "Electric Dreams" sound dated at all, and really a lot of these songs could've come out in 2007 if I didn't know better. But in the '90s they sounded so old fashioned. Back then I remember thinking that bands like Depeche Mode and Pet Shop Boys may have been the most ahead of their time in the 80s, but by the 90s their sound was dated. I think this feeling was largely based on both bands' lack of loops and samples and a reliance on machine sounds. Of course in the '00s synths and drum machines came back in vogue, while break and loop-based music felt very much a nineties thing. Essentially Moby and Fatboy Slim took sample'n'loop about as far as people could stomach, killing off the '90s in fine style. More leftfield artists, particularly working in IDM, were taking it even further, literally smashing loops up into little pieces and putting them back together to create glitch, drill'n'bass etc. When people like Miss Kittin and the electroclash brigade turned up, it was a real breath of fresh air to have dance's textural landscape swept clean and to start again with these basic machine-drum beats.

I would like to start a thread about tracks from the late 70s and 80s that really could have been electro tracks in the 00's. I had a really good example and I've forgotten it now. Doh!

dog latin, Saturday, 20 March 2010 14:52 (fourteen years ago) link

More than anything, I think that the musical differences between the 90s and the 00s are sociopolitical rather than audible. Dance music, up until the mid-90s was still seen as this dark, illicit movement associated with warehouses, drugs, the squatter movement, secret meet-ups on the M25 etc. Acid house, rave and jungle were punky styles of music - fast, engaging and rebellious. Attending a rave or being a raver wasn't just something you did to release tension after a hard week at the office. In many ways it was a matter of identity, a political statement or even a lifestyle choice. But as much as it was political, early '90s dance had a great sense of humour, largely attributable to the fact it was largely sample-based music. So while big raves had to be organised like a military operation, you still had Trip To Trumpton getting into the charts etc. And then you had such violent genres as gabba and hardcore (dance music's equivalents of Oi! and death metal I guess?) which just don't really exist anymore, but did do a lot to bring fans of metal, punk and industrial into the dance fold.

Take this scene of underground warehouses full of dreads, caterpillar boots, camo, smiley faces then zip forward a few years to your average dancefloor in 1999. Following the death of rave (it was the Criminal Justice Act on the veranda with the candlestick btw), dance music is no longer a statement, it's a huge commercial enterprise with superclubs, holiday destinations, megastar DJs, shiny shirts, hair gel, high-heels, bouncers, £5 pints etc. It wasn't about blowing your mind on acieeeeed or raving against Thatcher; it had become, in my eyes, a much more sordid affair than even Inspector Morse could have anticipated.

Having gone from rampant irreverence to commercial sellout in 10 years, the 2000s at least saved dance music from it's own success, not by "going back underground, to stop it falling into the wrong hands", but by turning it into a true "artform". Dance fans, producers and DJs were demanding to be taken seriously, to show that their music mattered as much as rock and jazz and everything else. So in a way, the 2000s was when dance music went truly middlebrow. The '00s dancefloor having become a place of art, of contemplation, of soul-cleansing, of spirituality through music - not in a hippie way, but through that sort of stoicism audible in Miss Kittin's deadpan delivery, the repetition and subtlety of minimal house, Vitalic's controlled synth build-ups, LCD Soundsystem's art-school tendencies etc.

dog latin, Saturday, 20 March 2010 15:46 (fourteen years ago) link

I think of the musical 90s beginning in early 1989 with acid house, Superfuzz Bigmuff, Stone Roses, De La Soul, Napalm Death and ending with the appearance of the Spice Girls.

bendy, Saturday, 20 March 2010 15:56 (fourteen years ago) link

Fingers crossed for New Jack Swing.

Adam Bruneau, Saturday, 20 March 2010 16:16 (fourteen years ago) link

TEXTBOOK SOCKING A++++++ WOULD SB AGAIN

Thierry Ennui (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 20 March 2010 16:18 (fourteen years ago) link

Not you, Adam

Thierry Ennui (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 20 March 2010 16:19 (fourteen years ago) link

Stop talking about shitty top 40 90s and rave, what about this:

90s guitar college rock indie... The 80s are back now so lets hope this comes next?

Evan, Saturday, 20 March 2010 16:58 (fourteen years ago) link

Shit's like whack-a-mole round here

Thierry Ennui (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 20 March 2010 17:00 (fourteen years ago) link

Another angle on this that may be way off base: the 90s were in some way (perhaps largely rhetorically, again) committed to a sort of postmodern universal-sampling agenda, with things like Paul's Boutique becoming touchstones and records like Odelay and the Bran Van 3000 album getting hype on the back of "they put every genre in a blender and hit Frappe!" (That kind of line now seems a little trite in hindsight, but it was the rallying cry.) Not to mention all manner of unlikely revivalism (see: the swing vs ska thread) already happening in the mid-to-late decade.

Now, the ONE thing that was sort of off-limits was everything to do with the 80s, because the other big 90s rallying cry was the anti-80s rejection already discussed. Once the 80s got let back into the tent (Miss Kittin, Midnite Vultures, dance-punk, whatever point of reference you like), there was kinda no degraded past thing left to pick up on. I mean, it's not like the 00s were solely about rediscovering the 80s - - - remember freak-folk? All the post-00 Elephant Six-related records? Etc... it's just that the 80s revival was particularly visible because these were doors we were not supposed to re-open.

In other words, I wonder if there can be a 90s revival, not only because the 90s never went away in the first place, but because everything under the sun has already been authorized for revival. We may see pockets of this or that thing coming back into vogue due to generational turnaround (ie: I grew up with the Positive Vibes bands; people my age might tap into those sounds with no sense of them being Evil Corporate Rock) but I'm not expecting the mass unleashing of any particular sound/aesthetic.

That being said, there were an awful lot of horrendous acid-washed ripped jeans on sale at the mall a couple weeks ago...

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 20 March 2010 17:00 (fourteen years ago) link

Back then I remember thinking that bands like Depeche Mode and Pet Shop Boys may have been the most ahead of their time in the 80s, but by the 90s their sound was dated.

If we take this template and flip so it applies today: who from the 90s sounded incredibly ahead of their time at the time, but then seemed pathetically dated last decade? That's the kind of person due to be revived, then.

Cunga, Saturday, 20 March 2010 17:21 (fourteen years ago) link

This beat is, this beat is, this beat is Technotronic.

I'm personally rooting for a continuation of the Hip-house revival.

babylon sister (Siah Alan), Saturday, 20 March 2010 17:26 (fourteen years ago) link

Having gone from rampant irreverence to commercial sellout in 10 years, the 2000s at least saved dance music from it's own success, not by "going back underground, to stop it falling into the wrong hands", but by turning it into a true "artform".

Maybe this is true of of the more underground varieties of dance music, but I really think mainstream/chart dance became worse in the 00s. I think the irreverence, the sense of utopia, the punky rebel energy, the sincerity, made 90s dance much more interesting that 00s mainstream dance, which seems to be more about coolness, detachment, hipness, ironic reference points - all these trends culminating in the late 00s "indie electro", one of the worst forms of dance music ever. Gimme your Westbams and Technoheads and Apollo 440s over LCD Soundsystem and Crystal Castles any day!

Tuomas, Saturday, 20 March 2010 17:37 (fourteen years ago) link

i can't stand most indie electro stuff with the exception of lcd. dude made some good music.

scott seward, Saturday, 20 March 2010 17:42 (fourteen years ago) link

If we take this template and flip so it applies today: who from the 90s sounded incredibly ahead of their time at the time, but then seemed pathetically dated last decade? That's the kind of person due to be revived, then.

I'd really hope there'll be a jungle revival of some sort. Back in 1994 it felt like there was so much potential in that stuff, but then after a year or two it was gone, and even though drum'n'bass was great for a few years after that, by the late 90s it felt like the whole thing had solidified into stagnant and predictable subgenres. And of course jungle couldn't have been revived in the 00s because of the general 80s coolness and anti-sampling attitude of that decade (as discussed above), but if were gonna have 90s revival in the 10s, then jungle is one of those prematurely withered lineages I hope someone would continue.

Tuomas, Saturday, 20 March 2010 17:43 (fourteen years ago) link

I think the reason people say 80s revival is because there is so much excessive flashiness and hipness that overshadows or is pushed to be the reason to care about something before you hear any music. Internet gossip has made music listeners a bit shallow, so people learn about all the reasons why an artist is hip that doesn't even pertain to the music they make, all before they hear a note. In the 90s your opinion about an artist was more likely based on the CD you heard, or on college radio, and the image you associated with it was the album art. These days its like indie TMZ. (Of course all of this was mostly about an indie perspective).

Evan, Saturday, 20 March 2010 17:52 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm surprised at Tuomas of all people for wanting a retro revival. I thought you hated retro, tuomas? Wanting a revival of music from when you were 12 is a bit geir-like.

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:01 (fourteen years ago) link

I wasn't talking about a full-blown revival, that's why I mentioned continuing the lineage of jungle, not just copying it. My point was that if there's gonne be an "inevitable 90s revival", jungle would be one of those relatively unexplored bits in the 90s genre map that someone could build on.

Tuomas, Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:07 (fourteen years ago) link

ardkore contuomium

nakhchivan, Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:09 (fourteen years ago) link

THIRD EYE BLIND

akaky akakievich, Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:09 (fourteen years ago) link

Man I wish it was still the 90s when it was all about the music and fashion played no part whatsoever in people's taste

Thierry Ennui (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:14 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh I wish I was a Beck raver with jungles in my hair.

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:15 (fourteen years ago) link

With respect to dance music, I don't think that there was a big break between the 80s and 90s.

It was. But it was around 1987-1988 already. The 90s started then.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:15 (fourteen years ago) link

(Speaking of music here though. Clothes and hairstyles were still very much 80s until 1991 or thereabouts)

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:16 (fourteen years ago) link

a lot of my friends have been repping Drinking In LA as some sort of lost classic just fyi?

plax (ico), Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:23 (fourteen years ago) link

If we take this template and flip so it applies today: who from the 90s sounded incredibly ahead of their time at the time, but then seemed pathetically dated last decade?

Hardcore techno.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:24 (fourteen years ago) link

A 90s revival is not inevitable, and I'm pretty sure threads like these have jinxed this possibility..

I suppose one question that could help point in the right direction: are there any 90s artists or songs or albums that became retroactively more popular during the 00s, perhaps as a result of usage in a soundtrack or commercial? This happened a lot with 80s pop during the late 90s, ie Tainted Love, Da Da Da... I know there were more of these.. top 40 stations (in my area anyway) added these songs to their rotations as a result of the commercials' popularity (and I'm assuming an increase of listener requests..) and around the same time there was "the wedding singer" soundtrack, and cartoon network started airing Thundercats in the afternoons... something tells me "80s nostalgia" was considered highly marketable during the last 3 years of the 90s and beyond, whereas 90s nostalgia between 2007 and the present hasn't been nearly as ubiquitous.

The only recent "90s nostalgia" movie I can recall is The Wackness and that was over 2 years ago.. I occasionally hear some newer artists like Silversun pickups or that Amerie song "Why R U?" from last summer, but unfortunately none of these attempts seem to be making any lasting impressions.

billstevejim, Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:36 (fourteen years ago) link

maybe this thread highlights how stupid it is to divide everything cultural up into decades anyway

max arrrrrgh, Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:39 (fourteen years ago) link

maybe this thread highlights how stupid it is to divide everything cultural up into decades anyway

Cankle My Appointments (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:40 (fourteen years ago) link

xposts. Drinking in LA was on the radio when i was in work today. It is not a lost classic.

404s & Heartbreak (jim in glasgow), Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:40 (fourteen years ago) link

Why do I fucking bother

billstevejim, Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:43 (fourteen years ago) link

Anyway, I think, what would be needed for a 90s revival is for typical 90s music to become unfashionable. Which hasn't really happend other than in the case of Eurodance and drum'n'bass.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Drum and Bass is big with the kids at the moment, sunshine

Cankle My Appointments (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:46 (fourteen years ago) link

How is 'Why R U?' 90s?

Ismael Klata, Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:46 (fourteen years ago) link

Are you serious

billstevejim, Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:49 (fourteen years ago) link

I agree with jungle and wouldn't be surprised if hardcore techno came back, albeit in some mutated form.

Plenty of bands from the Creation stable will be ripped off, I'm sure.

Cunga, Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:50 (fourteen years ago) link

ffs it's a reasonable question

Ismael Klata, Saturday, 20 March 2010 18:53 (fourteen years ago) link

I imagine that's based on the "synthetic substitution" break, yeah? vocals wouldn't be out of place in 90s r&b, either

grady "cougar" mellencamp (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:04 (fourteen years ago) link

Wouldn't you guys rather this generation came up with it's own original music that has nothing to do with what has gone before?

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Rites of Spring revival

Ismael Klata, Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:06 (fourteen years ago) link

Well that's obviously going to happen as music continues to evolve.. I don't think that's what the original question was suggesting (xpost)

billstevejim, Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:11 (fourteen years ago) link

here were an awful lot of horrendous acid-washed ripped jeans on sale at the mall a couple weeks ago...

not to mention plaid revival

CaptainLorax, Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:15 (fourteen years ago) link

I hope Naughty by Nature becomes the coolest thing

grady "cougar" mellencamp (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:18 (fourteen years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5J0xVfHNZs

Dr X O'Skeleton, Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:19 (fourteen years ago) link

because they were awesome xp

grady "cougar" mellencamp (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:19 (fourteen years ago) link

look for a comeback by Sylk-E Fyne. and just less use of the letter i in general.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7afzqmdQcUc/SkpxbuNPbtI/AAAAAAAABqI/Ab5OBjw6L4o/s400/SYLK-E+FINE+-+Raw+Sylk+(1998).jpg

scott seward, Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:25 (fourteen years ago) link

yeahhhhhhhh I could do for a revival of this type of slow-rolling rap slow jam in general

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaNMAlt4IjQ

grady "cougar" mellencamp (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:27 (fourteen years ago) link

damn, I want to hear z-ro on that beat

grady "cougar" mellencamp (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:27 (fourteen years ago) link

this album sounded SOOOOOOOOOO great to me the other day! uh, appropos of nothing.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3SuTf_D3hhk/Sp0s3EHgGiI/AAAAAAAAA9k/kXzv5BvW42g/s320/cover.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQdfI6rFmJE

scott seward, Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:31 (fourteen years ago) link

like, the best thing i had heard in weeks.

scott seward, Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:31 (fourteen years ago) link

Luke Records!

grady "cougar" mellencamp (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:33 (fourteen years ago) link

nice

grady "cougar" mellencamp (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:34 (fourteen years ago) link

THIRD EYE BLIND

Yeah, this will happen.

Brad Nelson (BradNelson), Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:35 (fourteen years ago) link

Or it already has.

Brad Nelson (BradNelson), Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:35 (fourteen years ago) link

Revive this imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If7bELSqWy0&feature=related

Cankle My Appointments (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:36 (fourteen years ago) link

I keep feeling that if there is a 90-revival it won't be centered much on grunge, since I feel that post-grunge, which is still very popular, has pretty much killed that possibility of happening for quite a while. Instead I feel that music is going to go in the direction of what if grunge never happened and be some sort of mutant hybrid of shoegaze, new jack swing and jangle pop or something like that.

MarkoP, Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:38 (fourteen years ago) link

And maybe the orchestral hit will make a comeback.

MarkoP, Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:39 (fourteen years ago) link

mutant hybrid of shoegaze, new jack swing and jangle pop or something like that

This is sort of already happening with a lot of that glo-fi (i know, i'm sorry) stuff.

dog latin, Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:44 (fourteen years ago) link

euro pop grunge revival

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEzrxoy09B0

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:51 (fourteen years ago) link

And that made me think of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVtf9tg9fxQ

MarkoP, Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:57 (fourteen years ago) link

And also I think a grunge / alternative rock revival is possible, post-grunge naffness or not. I've been rewatching a lot of old Beavis & Butthead videos recently and the music they have on that show is a goldmine of lost oddities and assortments, many bad but a number of them pretty good. There's a visceral feel - that wigged-out, nihilistic, raging, don't-give-a-fuck sort of attitude- the kind people only hear these days when they remember to put on "In Utero", that's just not happening in recent rock. Compare emo/crabcore's namby pamby black-dye teen dramas with the music of bands like Ministry, Lawnmower Death fuck it- even Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains seem light years ahead in the credibility stakes.

dog latin, Saturday, 20 March 2010 19:59 (fourteen years ago) link

THANK U PFUNKBOY

grady "cougar" mellencamp (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 March 2010 20:00 (fourteen years ago) link

YOU HAVE BROUGHT JOY TO MY LIFE AND POSSIBLE ANNOYANCE TO THOSE OF OTHERS

grady "cougar" mellencamp (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 March 2010 20:00 (fourteen years ago) link

No doubt someone who grew up in the 90s will be along to say they remember that cover from TOTP's and how they think it's much better than the original.

I wonder what other 90s songs could be covered by shitty europop bands if there was a revival.

Losing My Religion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5S5OeZIThE

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 20 March 2010 20:06 (fourteen years ago) link

^much worse starting point imo

grady "cougar" mellencamp (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 March 2010 20:07 (fourteen years ago) link

oh shit i just realised, those Creed big hits would be perfect fodder for those american idol wannabe-diva's

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 20 March 2010 20:07 (fourteen years ago) link

that's where the revival will begin

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 20 March 2010 20:08 (fourteen years ago) link

There's a visceral feel - that wigged-out, nihilistic, raging, don't-give-a-fuck sort of attitude- the kind people only hear these days when they remember to put on "In Utero", that's just not happening in recent rock. Compare emo/crabcore's namby pamby black-dye teen dramas with the music of bands like Ministry, Lawnmower Death fuck it- even Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains seem light years ahead in the credibility stakes.

What's strange is that the second we seem to put that angry grunge thing to bed finally it's ready for some sort of revival, or a return to its original form. Nickelback, Puddle of Mud, and so much nu-metal was really just the residue of all that, and that hasn't even completely died.

I will get on my hands and knees and beg the hipsters not to bring certain trends from the 90s back.

Cunga, Saturday, 20 March 2010 20:22 (fourteen years ago) link

You might be able to stop hipsters but you cant fight the ordinary guy in the street getting nostalgic for his youth.

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 20 March 2010 20:30 (fourteen years ago) link

xp I think the point being made is that 2000s post-grunge ISN'T angry and visceral the way OG grunge was.

grady "cougar" mellencamp (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 March 2010 20:31 (fourteen years ago) link

the second wave of emo was the 90s so with the 3rd wave still existing the 90s is definitely influencing stuff just now.

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 20 March 2010 20:33 (fourteen years ago) link

Acts such as My Chemical Romance are arguably reviving grunge more than they are reviving 90s EMO/Goth.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 20 March 2010 20:59 (fourteen years ago) link

And maybe the orchestral hit will make a comeback.

― MarkoP, Saturday, March 20, 2010 3:39 PM Bookmark

Yes! I think this is very very likely.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 21 March 2010 04:39 (fourteen years ago) link

You might be able to stop hipsters but you cant fight the ordinary guy in the street getting nostalgic for his youth.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:30 PM (Yesterday)

I like a lot of 90s bands because they seem like they are actually made by ordinary guys, NOT hipsters. Thats the most refreshing thing about it.

Evan, Sunday, 21 March 2010 05:24 (fourteen years ago) link

This question probably belongs on a different thread, but was there really much of a 60s revival in the 80s? I sure don't remember it that way. The first thing that comes to mind along those lines is the 60ish iconography in rave--but musically?

_Rudipherous_, Sunday, 21 March 2010 05:29 (fourteen years ago) link

We're trying too hard to find patterns here I think...

Evan, Sunday, 21 March 2010 05:33 (fourteen years ago) link

paisley underground
also velvet underground were very influential on "college rock" in the 80s
you could argue how popular this stuff really was but it was definitely a thing
xpost

The 19 Most Obvious Sockpuppets of the Decade (velko), Sunday, 21 March 2010 05:38 (fourteen years ago) link

Ah, yeah, I did forget the Velvet Underground, probably because they were so new to me in the 80s.

_Rudipherous_, Sunday, 21 March 2010 05:48 (fourteen years ago) link

This question probably belongs on a different thread, but was there really much of a 60s revival in the 80s?

Besides the Paisley Underground, there was also a very evident Motown revival, a lot of songs influenced by "You Can't Hurry Love"'s beat.
There were also the likes of Shakin' Stevens and Stray Cats, although that was probably more of a 50s revival than a 60s one.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 21 March 2010 10:37 (fourteen years ago) link

the 90's were a great, great time for tuneful guitar-based experimentation - so if anything comes back I'm hoping it's the massive stack of FX pedals

and maybe lo-fi fuckery - heaven knows we need more rough'n'ready soundworlds

LiveJournal (acoleuthic), Sunday, 21 March 2010 10:57 (fourteen years ago) link

Yes! Exactly. Absolutely. 100%

Evan, Sunday, 21 March 2010 15:30 (fourteen years ago) link

Except about the lo-fi. Lets have the lo-fi fuckery ultimately support the songs, instead of it being a tool to make your so-so material hipper by drowning it. Too many recent lo-fi acts are putting way too much emphasis on lo-fi for style sake, without letting it just create an atmosphere.

Evan, Sunday, 21 March 2010 15:35 (fourteen years ago) link

^^^yes, by 'fuckery' i mean meddling about with form via content, not defining the form through a set aesthetic

am currently rocking hood's 'rustic houses, forlorn valleys' on repeat and wondering why so few albums these days have such space, invention, wonder...

i mean, music in the past 10 years has been all sorts of wonderful but there's a certain kind of wide-eyed, sprawling artistic vision that's been lost a little. albums don't sound like they were conjured out of thin air any more, so much

LiveJournal (acoleuthic), Sunday, 21 March 2010 15:37 (fourteen years ago) link

"This question probably belongs on a different thread, but was there really much of a 60s revival in the 80s?"

there was Doors-mania! and the dead got even bigger. bigger than they had been at the tail-end of the 70's. and bands like sonic youth were all about the whole deathtrip manson 60's sike thing. and there was a big garage rock underground with the lyres and a zillion others. and the whole jangle rock explosion of Byrds-worship. and brix smith was singing about edie and my favorite band felt wished that they lived in a warhol movie and i could go on and on forever....

scott seward, Sunday, 21 March 2010 15:55 (fourteen years ago) link

Kind of feel like we're about one or two years into a pretty big '90s revival with indie-rock, no? Also, ditto with UK electronic music -- if Zomby's 'Where Were U in '92' was any more '90s, it'd be the soundtrack to 'Blossom.'

larry_fitzmaurice, Sunday, 21 March 2010 16:00 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, whats interesting about decade revivals is the artists who move to the forefront as the reassessment goes on. Like the Velvets and Byrds weren't front line bands in the sixties. But there was no point in reassessing the Beatles or Stones, since their presence was still very much felt in pop. Likewise, it would have been hard to predict Gang of Four's rep rising to the top ten years ago with the post punk revival, but there certainly was no point in re-thinking U2, despite these kind of post-punk credentials

http://www.discogs.com/Jah-Wobble--Edge-The--Holger-Czukay-Snake-Charmer/release/31585

bendy, Sunday, 21 March 2010 16:10 (fourteen years ago) link

On that tip, which 90s also-rans might move forward when the decade gets reassessed? What's the ingredients: a fairly hefty body of work, little commercial success, and some kind of unique selling point?

Ismael Klata, Sunday, 21 March 2010 17:08 (fourteen years ago) link

Dodgy and Ocean Colour Scene. When the Powerpop revolution happens :)

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 21 March 2010 17:24 (fourteen years ago) link

Can I be first against the wall, please?

Ismael Klata, Sunday, 21 March 2010 17:56 (fourteen years ago) link

I've only got the vaguest memory of seeing a Local H video, but they seem to have the sort of diehard cult reccomending them that works out well in the long run.

bendy, Sunday, 21 March 2010 18:13 (fourteen years ago) link

The truth is, I thought it mattered - I thought that music mattered. But does it? Bollocks! Not compared to how people matter.

Armchair Crab (staggerlee), Sunday, 21 March 2010 19:20 (fourteen years ago) link

I'd like to see the revival of post-golden age sampledelic hip-hop. Influencing all music you can think of!

Davek (davek_00), Sunday, 21 March 2010 20:13 (fourteen years ago) link

In fact that refers more to Bomb Squad/Dust Bros/Prince Paul. Either way it's one of the last major 80s movements not to be revived yet.

Davek (davek_00), Sunday, 21 March 2010 20:14 (fourteen years ago) link

think that's because the cost of doing it legally became prohibitively expensive after that Gilbert O'Sullivan/Biz Markie case??

Cankle My Appointments (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 21 March 2010 20:15 (fourteen years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wb0Xz7Rp6A
This comeback single kind of bombed, so the world is at least not yet ready for the return of the mighty 2 Unlimited.

Siegbran, Sunday, 21 March 2010 20:22 (fourteen years ago) link

People like Haddaway and Dr. Alban are doing pretty good on the nostalgia circuit though, there was recently some sort of "back to the 90s" Eurodance tour where they performed, and at least in Helsinki they had a house full of thirtysomethings dancing to the music of their youth.

Tuomas, Sunday, 21 March 2010 22:34 (fourteen years ago) link

Some of the stuff from the Fool's Gold label (mostly, Kingdom) has been really strongly embracing that diva-house sound made popular by 2 Unlimited and (the eternal) La Bouche, so there's that as well.

larry_fitzmaurice, Sunday, 21 March 2010 22:36 (fourteen years ago) link

Still, even if there's gonna be a proper Eurodance revival, I find hard to imagine it would be based on anything else than the nostalgia/novelty value of the music. Can't imagine anything hip and new being built on that foundation. (Though those who were teenagers in the 80s probably thought the same about the lipstick pop of their youth, before the 80s revival happened.)

Tuomas, Sunday, 21 March 2010 22:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Also, hits like Day N Nite bring back another 90s phenomenon where rappers who shot to fame on the back of a huge dance hit desperately try to build their 'proper' rap career. I still have some solo Turbo B and Ray Slijngaard tracks somewhere I think.

Siegbran, Sunday, 21 March 2010 23:07 (fourteen years ago) link

Still, even if there's gonna be a proper Eurodance revival, I find hard to imagine it would be based on anything else than the nostalgia/novelty value of the music. Can't imagine anything hip and new being built on that foundation.

That is true. Any revival of something old will first and foremost be driven by new generations of fans who have found something valuable in the music of old. It was the case of the late70s/early 80s rockabilly revival, it was the case of the Paisley Underground, it was the case of Britpop, it was the case of the early 00s postpunk revival, and it is the case of today's 80s/electro revival.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 21 March 2010 23:30 (fourteen years ago) link

And probably true regarding Eurodance too. After all, it isn't exactly Samantha Fox and Sabrina who have been revived from the 80s.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 21 March 2010 23:31 (fourteen years ago) link

Messy Zappa/Beefheart-inspired artrock - was this a thing? dEUS and that Belgian scene for sure, also The Beta Band. It might be possible to shoehorn Gomez in as well, though they were a bit too straightahead.

seandalai, Monday, 22 March 2010 00:44 (fourteen years ago) link

and shit

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 22 March 2010 00:46 (fourteen years ago) link

(sorry LJ)

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 22 March 2010 00:47 (fourteen years ago) link

they had their moments but I'm not so into 'em as I was

LiveJournal (acoleuthic), Monday, 22 March 2010 00:50 (fourteen years ago) link

Agreed Gomez were mostly shit - just trying to find support for something I think was in the air (there were also a bunch of Irish bands in this vein that nobody has heard of) but can't cite many definite examples of...

seandalai, Monday, 22 March 2010 00:51 (fourteen years ago) link

there's crossover with pet LJ thread Unknown, vaguely Cardiacsy prog-pop that only MaresNest and I actually like here for sure - although maybe you're wanting things that are more messy and less jazzy, so Camp Blackfoot are probably out

who else fancied a larkabout...hmm...

someone needs to assume the earl brutus torch

LiveJournal (acoleuthic), Monday, 22 March 2010 00:56 (fourteen years ago) link

Hipsters are still in 80s revival mode so if the 90s are to become fashionable this year i think it will be from elsewhere.
What decade do american idol/x factor entrants take their songs from mostly?

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 22 March 2010 00:57 (fourteen years ago) link

For the 90s to be revived, it would take the 90s styles to actually become unfashionable at first. The 90s are still around in music, and even more so in fashion. As long as they are, it's hard to see them revived. You cannot revive something that is already largely still around.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Monday, 22 March 2010 01:55 (fourteen years ago) link

Indie music and the suburbs need to reunite. It takes more effort to be unique in Brooklyn, therefore this overcompensation of hipness happens, and you get lots of over-artsy bands that are trying really hard to stand out. Suburban bands don't usually seem like they have the same kind of pressure, and you get music that feels a bit more natural. Just a theory.

Evan, Monday, 22 March 2010 02:52 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh and it ties in because lots of 90s bands had a more suburban vibe to me.

Evan, Monday, 22 March 2010 02:53 (fourteen years ago) link

everyone keeps mentioning samples being expensive and undoable, but what about when you're just releasing youtube videos and freedownload-able mp3's? this is a plausible venue for 90's-style sampling to come back in a big way, after being fairly verboten for the last decade, yes?

+, we should maybe put this in the context of 90's revivalism vs. 00's revivalism - in the 90's, there was definitely a large amount of influence from the 70's, but it mostly seemed to take the form of sampling, ie. bit's n pieces of actual 70's records being twisted and manipulated into something completely new. whereas in the 00's, aping the actual the sound and style of the 80's quite closely seemed to be the means of revivalism... i mean, outside of rap from 99-04 or so, a lot of the last decade just seemed more backwards looking compared to the 90s (grunge not included i guess) anyway maybe the 10's will be a bit more progressive and innovative again, bringing back the 90's with a more unexpected twists and turns than the whole 80's-are-cool-again zeitgeist of the 00's?

messiahwannabe, Monday, 22 March 2010 04:16 (fourteen years ago) link

that's kind of a hugely reductive view of the 2000s, yeah?

grady "cougar" mellencamp (The Reverend), Monday, 22 March 2010 05:10 (fourteen years ago) link

Indie music and the suburbs need to reunite.

This is happening already -- see: Real Estate, Titus Andronicus, most bands on Underwater Peoples.

larry_fitzmaurice, Monday, 22 March 2010 05:13 (fourteen years ago) link

that's kind of a hugely reductive view of the 2000s, yeah?

well, at least it's a whole paragraph! i'd have gone into greater depth with a 64 page thesis but i was late to band practice ;P but i think the overall sentiment is sound if not unassailable

everyone keeps mentioning samples being expensive and undoable, but what about when you're just releasing youtube videos and freedownload-able mp3's? this is a plausible venue for 90's-style sampling to come back in a big way, after being fairly verboten for the last decade, yes?

for example:

http://thru-you.com/#/videos/

messiahwannabe, Monday, 22 March 2010 06:23 (fourteen years ago) link

let's embed that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tprMEs-zfQA&feature=channel

messiahwannabe, Monday, 22 March 2010 06:24 (fourteen years ago) link

re samples : the cost implications never stopped girl talk.

for small underground releases, i dont think there is the quite the same level of intensity to track down perps of this type of music as it was back in the heyday of sample it, loop it fuck it

then again, like sonny j (emis attempt at launching upbeat sample based dance pop a few years ago that fell flat on its arse), you could just "recreate" the samples

mark e, Monday, 22 March 2010 09:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Indie music and the suburbs need to reunite.
This is happening already -- see: Real Estate, Titus Andronicus, most bands on Underwater Peoples.

― larry_fitzmaurice, Monday, March 22, 2010 1:13 AM (6 hours ago)

Yeah! I love Real Estate. Hopefully the trend continues.

Evan, Monday, 22 March 2010 11:41 (fourteen years ago) link

I get the feeling that when Hip Hop was at its commercial peak, say 95-05, backing off on the samples was part of being a team playa in the music industry.

bendy, Monday, 22 March 2010 11:53 (fourteen years ago) link

er yeah, from puff daddy to kanye...

rip sarah silverman 3/19/10 never forget (history mayne), Monday, 22 March 2010 11:54 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't know if it's been mentioned already but haven't the 90s kinda been revived through the euro ravey synths used in hiphop rnb over the last years ?
these synths are definitely 90s signifiers for me, just like some other synths (new order's for instance) or drums sounds (prince's) are 80s signifiers

AlXTC from Paris, Monday, 22 March 2010 12:17 (fourteen years ago) link

everyone keeps mentioning samples being expensive and undoable, but what about when you're just releasing youtube videos and freedownload-able mp3's? this is a plausible venue for 90's-style sampling to come back in a big way, after being fairly verboten for the last decade, yes?

If you are speaking of the underground, yes. A Youtube/mp3 phenomenon may never cross over beyond the underground.
And there are underground scenes devoted to just about every style and genre since the beginning of time already. I suppose a 90s revival is thought of as a somewhat more mainstream thing though.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Monday, 22 March 2010 13:04 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't know if it's been mentioned already but haven't the 90s kinda been revived through the euro ravey synths used in hiphop rnb over the last years ?
these synths are definitely 90s signifiers for me, just like some other synths (new order's for instance) or drums sounds (prince's) are 80s signifiers

I guess some of those electro/R&B hits are actually borrowing elements both from the 80s and from 90s rave/dance and putting them together.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Monday, 22 March 2010 13:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Seems like a weird time to be asking this question. Cultural reappraisal happens so quickly now that in my opinion the 90s revival is years old already - at least in the underground.

In dance music, the 90s revival started around 2007 with the death of minimal and the revival of deep house and 'real' techno, along with all the heavy-handed signifiers of 'realness' that go with it. Dubstep from the start has also been arguably a revival of certain 90s values - see Dissenus, the 'nuum (sigh) etc. Elsewhere, shoegaze is arguably one of the big underground influences of the mid-late 00s. People were citing that stuff as far back as 2003/2004.

As for an answer to the thread title: for some reason I can see the Industrial and EBM of both the 80s and 90s varieties making a comeback. The later parts of that scene may take a while, as they've been so deeply unfashionable for so long but there's already plenty of rumblings about the early stuff. See Xeno & Oaklander (lol, hardly mainstream but whatever) citing Front 242 as a big influence. It just seems to flow neatly out of the currently growing hipster minimal wave obsession.

jng, Monday, 22 March 2010 16:25 (fourteen years ago) link

00s revival only minutes away

Ismael Klata, Monday, 22 March 2010 16:31 (fourteen years ago) link

The Industrial/EBM revival is already in place to some extent, with "rock" bands such as Muse, Franz Ferdinand and Kent adding lots of synths to their otherwise still very "rock" style.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Monday, 22 March 2010 16:31 (fourteen years ago) link

front 242 still going strong.

this has just been released :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=dPInPCw4h-o

mark e, Monday, 22 March 2010 16:34 (fourteen years ago) link

That's not much different from how Paul Weller was still around releasing albums during the Britpop age, for instance.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Monday, 22 March 2010 16:44 (fourteen years ago) link

Geir, I normally understand your posts, if not necessarily agree with them, but comparing Front242 with Kent is a new level of o_O

dog latin, Monday, 22 March 2010 17:07 (fourteen years ago) link

incidentally, i'm quite interested in an industrial revival. the 00s have been the most polite and restrained decade since punk broke, and i'd like to see a return to the anti-fashion anti-PC shock and awe of bands like Ministry, Ultraviolence, Napalm Death, Throbbing Gristle et al.

dog latin, Monday, 22 March 2010 17:09 (fourteen years ago) link

I guess some of those electro/R&B hits are actually borrowing elements both from the 80s and from 90s rave/dance and putting them together.

true. in some cases.
but for instance, I have rihanna's "please don't stop the music" in mind right now and it's clearly 100% 90s, no ?(except the samba makossa part, of course !)

AlXTC from Paris, Monday, 22 March 2010 17:11 (fourteen years ago) link

not hearing anything particularly 90s to that. take out the sample and it's too thin/based on flat/surface synth tones, which gives it something in common with some late 90s trance pop but what else?

mdskltr (blueski), Monday, 22 March 2010 17:14 (fourteen years ago) link

well you have the filter disco thing too (very 90s french touch).
and 4/4 dance drums that are also very 90s to me.

AlXTC from Paris, Monday, 22 March 2010 17:33 (fourteen years ago) link

but for instance, I have rihanna's "please don't stop the music" in mind right now and it's clearly 100% 90s, no ?

Those straight unsyncopated 120BPM 4/4 beats sound very 80s to me. A typical 90s style would be either breakbeats or 135-140 PBM trance, no?

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Monday, 22 March 2010 20:36 (fourteen years ago) link

all bands are gonna sound like Polvo

And guess what? I think Pitchfork is going to give it a BM. (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 22 March 2010 20:40 (fourteen years ago) link

i'm hoping for cathy dennis.

or more shoegaze.

goole, Monday, 22 March 2010 20:41 (fourteen years ago) link

I think to some extent early industrial has already made a comeback with noise.

and i'd like to see a return to the anti-fashion anti-PC shock and awe of bands like Ministry, Ultraviolence, Napalm Death, Throbbing Gristle et al.

I sure don't see much use in more music designed for shock value, nor do I think it's gone away (though hip-hop has probably taken the trophy in this department more than underground white music made by whites). Not sure TG were too anti-fashion in their designer camouflage outfits, either.

_Rudipherous_, Monday, 22 March 2010 21:33 (fourteen years ago) link

all bands are gonna sound like Polvo

― And guess what? I think Pitchfork is going to give it a BM. (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, March 22, 2010 4:40 PM

GOOD

Evan, Monday, 22 March 2010 22:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Drug themes + dance/electronic scene. We currently have Neon Indian, etc. It's got nothing on Jack Dangers' dismembered, floating head:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQt58w0pqE0

Spectrum, Monday, 22 March 2010 23:13 (fourteen years ago) link

Especially living in brooklyn i am starting to really worry about this happening. I guess it already is.

I have seen a LOT of flannel while apartment hunting outside of the predominantly west indian neighborhood I live in..

Even though both indie and electronic were equally important to me during that decade, I can totally deal with an indie 90s revival but would freak out at the increasing hipness of breakbeat hardcoe, jungle or 2-step. I guess it comes down to the fact that since indie gave up on being oppositional I have no problem if it cannibalizes its own past but, perhaps because it was abandoned so quickly, or perhaps because I am not from the UK, the 90s "nuum" stuff still has a certain magic and intimacy that I would hate to see trampled. I get dragged to "cool" parties every so often, and if I were to ever walk into one and hear "Timeless" or "Valley of the Shadows" being played, I would fucking throw up.

Remember, retro always turns something into a mere reference. The revival of jungle or industrial or grunge or whatever else will NOT result in a revival of the rebelliousness or "anti-fashion"-ness of those musics, at least not beyond a superficial level.

I guess it goes without saying that my interest in music is not purely aesthetic...

Shh! It's NOT Me!, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 00:32 (fourteen years ago) link

Shoegaze fetishism has been key in certain pockets of electronic & indie music for most if not all of the 00s, which is totally fine by me, but any "revival" there would probably just mean more of the same.

If there is anything specifically I'd like to see revisited, it is the dancier, more house-centered end of madchester/baggy, but still w/ guitars & vox (like the Mondays or early Inspiral Carpets). Maybe someone is already doing this?

everybody on ilx u have dandruff (Pillbox), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 00:53 (fourteen years ago) link

Am I the only one who feels that there was an emphatic musical changeover around the start of the decade? I remember my 19-year-old self around late 2001 noticing that there'd been boybands, Ibiza anthems, nu metal, Moby still being taken seriously, feckin Starsailor, and then suddenly, BANG! we had garage rock, electroclash, dance-punk, post-punk, emo. This is completely subjective, obviously.

Hero Gringo (ecuador_with_a_c), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 01:31 (fourteen years ago) link

Boy/girl bands more or less disappearing was probably the one most significant change around the turn of the decade. It didn't really happen until around 2001 though. (And Westlife are still around)

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 02:14 (fourteen years ago) link

I envision more boyz II men style r&b elements in mainstream hiphop with added stripper references

chillax tone (Curt1s Stephens), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 02:23 (fourteen years ago) link

Dubstep from the start has also been arguably a revival of certain 90s values - see Dissenus, the 'nuum (sigh) etc.

Sorry, but I don't quite get this sentence, could you maybe explain it a bit more. What are "Dissenus" and "the 'nuum" and how do they relate to 90s values?

Tuomas, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 08:11 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.dissensus.com/

Big on dubstep.

_Rudipherous_, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 09:24 (fourteen years ago) link

the 'nuum refers to the ardkore continuum, a music crit trope invented by simon reynolds (i think) to dexcribe the evolution of roots'n'future dance music, starting with early rave, through jungle, through d'n'b, garage, two-step, grime, dubstep etc...

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 09:32 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm hopeful that early 90s trainers will see a revival, because my pair of nikes are nearing the end of their lives (they got openly laughed at by some urchins by St Paul's one night back in 2000 - the joke'll be on-u, scumbags)

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 09:39 (fourteen years ago) link

Is there anything worth reading on this massive thread or is it full of terrible parroting of received wisdom about Britpop, grunge and rave?

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 10:03 (fourteen years ago) link

i don't know, how about reading and contributing?

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 10:36 (fourteen years ago) link

It's really long! I want to know if it's worth it.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 10:47 (fourteen years ago) link

seems like you've made up your mind already, so read it and scoff or don't bother.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 10:49 (fourteen years ago) link

Is that pronounced new-um? num? NOOM?

kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 10:54 (fourteen years ago) link

ñoom

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 10:56 (fourteen years ago) link

Crusty is maybe the early 90s genre that seems to me most beyond the pale of taste (in varieties running from Spiral Tribe through Levellers to Senser). So much so that I immediately dismiss it as unrevivable (plus it was never that big, plus they're mostly still around). But maybe something like that will come out if politics radicalise a bit? I hope not. I don't really want to live in a world in which it turns out Back To The Planet and Ozric Tentacles were the great neglected bands of the 90s.

woof, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 11:05 (fourteen years ago) link

will politics affect UK music in the '10s? seems that casual radicalism died when blair got in. if cameron and the tories come back, will we see a return to the crustie scenes? or are they dead and gone forever?

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 11:12 (fourteen years ago) link

Dunno the answers to that really (I'm not an informed political thinker) - it sprung from reading John Lanchester's argument that ideology & radicalism are going to come back hard when the public sector cuts/freezes start to kick in over the next few years - he suggests that'll move us away from the managerial years of politics.

woof, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 11:50 (fourteen years ago) link

will politics affect UK music in the '10s? seems that casual radicalism died when blair got in. if cameron and the tories come back, will we see a return to the crustie scenes

I'm honestly not deliberately jumping on you here, but one of the problems I have with your Carmody-style grand unifying theory type posts is that the connections you make between events seem so flimsy. What is casual radicalism?

Are you connecting the rise of New Labour with the decline in the "crustie scene"? I'm not sure they had anything to do with one another. Why would it suddenly become back because we have a Tory government? What is it that would create those conditions that the massive public opposition to the Iraq and Afghan wards failed to do?

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:19 (fourteen years ago) link

Gotta say that is the genre of pop commentary I hate most - every Popular thread for aeons has been stunk up by received wisdom on how Thatcher caused X

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:28 (fourteen years ago) link

it's something i've been kinda concerned over for a few years and have piped up about on ilx a couple of times. subversion and radicalism in pop and youth culture have been quashed since the mid-90s when tony blair invited tate artists and britpoppers to his house for drinks. there's very little rebellion in music any more. protesting doesn't work. it's no longer deemed cool to want to smash the system and the only people getting up on soapboxes are daily mail readers/lunatics (sic). affluence is the prescription of youth. dance culture has moved from the warehouse to the nightclub; indie rockers sign to Sony and go out on the razz with IT girls; hip hop thugs have been promoted to billionaire businessmen; accountants now wear mohawks; punk rock has been absorbed, taken to pieces, sanitised, then sold back to us by marketers and admen etc.

So whither the crusties and anarchists, the mohawks and ravers, the goths and the nihilists and the grungers and the swampies and their dogs on hair-string leads? or did they die out in the 2000s in the same way the hippies died out in the 70s, to grow up and become yuppies?

Other than maybe a few exceptions, I'm struggling to think of much music before 1997 that didn't at least have pretensions towards a subculture. But after that, you'd have a hard time inviting the Levellers or the Ozrics or any of that lot in from the cold.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:31 (fourteen years ago) link

for "IT girls" read "'It' girls" haha!

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:32 (fourteen years ago) link

"So whither the crusties and anarchists, the mohawks and ravers, the goths and the nihilists and the grungers and the swampies and their dogs on hair-string leads?"

i still see these people.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:40 (fourteen years ago) link

Damn, you still getting flashbacks?

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:43 (fourteen years ago) link

no, there were crusties with a dog hanging out on the street just the other day. passing through town.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:45 (fourteen years ago) link

and mohawks and goths and all the rest never really go away. and icp people. i see icp people.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:47 (fourteen years ago) link

Dog Latin, in all honesty I think you're over-romanticising a so-called rebellious past you weren't there to experience.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:51 (fourteen years ago) link

matt and ishmael, i realise this is all theorising over factors that may or may not exist. i'm not saying this is fact, just a debating point. There are obviously a lot of factors to consider when looking at how music and pop culture have evolved. But I really don't believe that they exist in a vacuum. Music, as with all artforms, is a filter and a mirror of everything that goes on around it. And yes, politics will have an effect, the economy will have an effect, technology affects it, media attitudes etc... all these can be classed as direct or indirect influences on people's muses.

this is why it dumbfounds me, when so many opposed the Bush/Blair agenda - that in the 2000s we barely heard a peep of musical commentary, short of "George Bush Is An Islamic Fundamentalist" by The Rub. It makes me wonder whether if it had happended in the 90s there would have been more of an outcry among music makers. If not, then you're right and I'm definitely barking up the wrong tree.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:51 (fourteen years ago) link

i love all the little scenes where i live. there is a great underground thrash show coming up down the street. there is hardcore contra dancing at the grange hall. and i'm having a noise matinee at my store next sunday.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:55 (fourteen years ago) link

dog latin, i wrote a controversial crust punk anthem about the lack of protest in music during the 2000's. it bugged me too.

scott seward, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:57 (fourteen years ago) link

It makes me wonder whether if it had happended in the 90s there would have been more of an outcry among music makers.

90s stalwarts like 3D, Albarn and Yorke (and perhaps less visibly, FunDaMental) were probably the most vocal against all that. there were actually a whole bunch of records protesting the war (minor hits from bands like Travis, er...some hip-hop both from US and UK...). it does seem that there was less "angry-sounding" music making a commercial impact in the 00s compared to the 90s tho, like it became seen as unfashionable as much as unprofitable.

mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Dog Latin, in all honesty I think you're over-romanticising a so-called rebellious past you weren't there to experience.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 12:51 (32 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I've been a music fan since January 1990 and was friends with squatters, ravers and activists etc throughout the decade. So please don't tell me where I was and where I wasn't.

Anyway, I'm simply saying, and this is undeniable, that agitpop had a much bigger presence in the Tory years than any time after. Give me examples of bands in the 2000s who would equate to and have the same appeal as FUN>DA>MENTAL, RATM, Senser, Blaggers ITA, The Levellers, the "Fuck Leah Betts" campaign, Skunk Anansie, even the Happy Mondays had streaks of it with their socially irresponsible pro-drugs rap.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:09 (fourteen years ago) link

I've been a music fan since January 1990 and was friends with squatters, ravers and activists etc throughout the decade. So please don't tell me where I was and where I wasn't.

are we going to get an ex crustie losing my edge pls

nakhchivan, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:11 (fourteen years ago) link

Just a function of music meaning less at that time I think. If you'd had a surplus of young people at the time we might've got 1968 protest songs again, as it is we got a surplus of Guardian opinion pieces.

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:13 (fourteen years ago) link

"I was there at Megadog when Eat Static played a 48 hour set - they said I'd never make it through the whole thing - they were wrong"

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:13 (fourteen years ago) link

I threw lager across the Cambridge Corn Exchange at Senser's first show in 1993...

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:14 (fourteen years ago) link

are we going to get an ex crustie losing my edge pls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtQcoej6lJg

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:16 (fourteen years ago) link

FUN>DA>MENTAL, RATM, Senser, Blaggers ITA, The Levellers, the "Fuck Leah Betts" campaign, Skunk Anansie

I think part of the issue might have been that most of these bands were fucking terrible and made overt sloganeering cringeworthingly unfashionable. Comparing most of this stuff to 60s protest songs is a bit of an insult to the 60s dudes.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:16 (fourteen years ago) link

if they were terrible, why was this acceptable in the 90s and what changed that (both for the audience/market and for the artists themselves from a motivational pov)?

mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:21 (fourteen years ago) link

Are we doing a Calvin Harris for these bands now?

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:22 (fourteen years ago) link

Senser >>>>> Calvin Harris

mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:24 (fourteen years ago) link

If by "acceptable" you mean "briefly fashionable for about a year in the 90s when the music press didn't have much else to latch onto". I'm not sure any of them, Rage aside, comes close to the impact of a Hail To The Thief, or Dizzee at his most political, or The Recession, or "George Bush doesn't care about black people", or even something like London Zoo.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:25 (fourteen years ago) link

i'm inclined to agree, but whether they did or not, they existed and they were covered and people listened to them. and yeah, these bands definitely played a part in making protest/political commentary in music deeply unfashionable (then again, isn't that what this thread's about?). most of them were fucking rubbish, especially in retrospect. but what's wrong with a bit of mindless rebellion now and again? is it time for this to make a comeback, or is it gone forever? we still get "angry" sounding music - hardcore and emo bands and that, but the anger is channeled through internal angst. I'd rather hear an angry band who at least pretended to make a statement about the world around them rather than the eternal navelgazing of most 2000s hard rock I've heard.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:26 (fourteen years ago) link

sorry, that was xpost to matt dc.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:26 (fourteen years ago) link

i mean acceptable largely as in actually hitting the charts (with The Levellers likely outselling RATM here at the time), that being a reasonable indication of popularity and cultural impact then. i'm not sure how you're measuring the equivalent effects of Dizzee (who its fair to say ppl aren't into for the 'politics'), net-based viral songs/memes and critical darlings like The Bug who clearly sold fuck all.

mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:32 (fourteen years ago) link

but what's wrong with a bit of mindless rebellion now and again?

why would it (have to) be mindless?

mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:34 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm not sure any of them, Rage aside, comes close to the impact of a Hail To The Thief, or Dizzee at his most political, or The Recession, or "George Bush doesn't care about black people", or even something like London Zoo.

These are good examples. Then again, aren't they slightly abstract? These are singular commentaries on current affairs, not a call to arms or what have you. The crustie movement wasn't supposed to be fashionable - so accusing the bands of being unfashionable is missing the point. Laugh at the crusties all you will (it's easy now) but at the time it was a definitive movement that bothered tabloid readers and people in positions of power. The 00s never really saw a subculture trying to go against the flow. And I think this is kind of an important thing in rock/pop - maybe this is considered a cliche in the 21st century, but I believe it's important for young artists to challenge the status quo, be it according to politics, fashion (e.g. Nirvana's dress style going against preconceptions of what a rock band should wear etc), or pretty much any factor. If there has been a rebel-factor in 00's music, it's involved a subtle integration rather than full-frontal counter-culture. I wonder if people are ready to be slapped int he face by subversion once more.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:40 (fourteen years ago) link

Hate to say it, but Pete Doherty ticks a few of your boxes

Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:42 (fourteen years ago) link

These are good examples. Then again, aren't they slightly abstract? These are singular commentaries on current affairs, not a call to arms or what have you.

god forbid political music have some nuance to it

The Reverend, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:47 (fourteen years ago) link

The 00s never really saw a subculture trying to go against the flow.

I'm wondering what counts for you as a subculture? What criteria have to be met? Maybe this is just because I tend to get very overwhelmed by the way the idea of "culture" can be applied on so many different scales (anything from national cultures to the culture of a small business). Would a culture that only exists virtually count as a sub-culture, for instance?

Also, I'm not sure if it's meant to be understood that you mean a new subculture? Do you really think there were no subcultures around at all in the last decade?

_Rudipherous_, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 13:56 (fourteen years ago) link

okay, maybe by "subculture" read "counter-culture".

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:03 (fourteen years ago) link

Doglatin I think the problem here is that you're equating "political music" with hippified counterculture, out-and-out anti-establishment sloganeering or just a vague sense of rebellion in the way you understand rebellion. Anything outside those boundaries just isn't registering with you. If you want that, fair enough, but I think most people have realised it's kind of clumsy, and there are better ways for bands to become politically engaged.

Xpost - Rev OTM. Give me "singular commentaries on current affairs" over going "rah let's bring down capitalism after we've finished getting twatted" any day. Also slapping someone in the face isn't subversive, it's about as direct as you can get.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:03 (fourteen years ago) link

Doglatin I think the problem here is that you're equating "political music" with hippified counterculture, out-and-out anti-establishment sloganeering or just a vague sense of rebellion in the way you understand rebellion. Anything outside those boundaries just isn't registering with you. If you want that, fair enough, but I think most people have realised it's kind of clumsy, and there are better ways for bands to become politically engaged.

Sure, absolutely there are cleverer and more subtle ways to do this. I'm not arguing for going back to bullshit faux-anarchist sloganeering, just meditating on whether it might make a comeback, because it seems that the softly softly approach hasn't done anything and that students (at least the ones I know) largely don't give a toss about current affairs because they're not being exposed to them in the right way.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:09 (fourteen years ago) link

Matt, the other thing is I can't think of anything that is politically engaging that came out in the 00s, save the odd sparse examples you mentioned upthread.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:13 (fourteen years ago) link

it seems that the softly softly approach hasn't done anything

what did the mindless sloganeering do? pray tell

لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:20 (fourteen years ago) link

i think the trouble is, your idea of "politically engaging" seems to be limited to SMASH THE SYSTEM UNK UNK UNK grunts - politically engaged, politically engaging and heavily politicised mainstream and non-mainstream artists aren't actually that rare these days

لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:24 (fourteen years ago) link

an example?

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:27 (fourteen years ago) link

this is kind of derailing the original point of whether directly political 90s-style agitprop will make a comeback or not. again, i'm not saying it should, but that it might.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:29 (fourteen years ago) link

I for one eagerly await "Tubthumping 2"

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:30 (fourteen years ago) link

I'll agree that dog latin has a point. Overall, "rebellion" as a theme among music in most genres doesn't appear to be as popular as it seems to have been in past decades. Unless it is done with subtlety these days it would feel dated. And I'm sure dog latin isn't against subtly, but if the theme is more blatant than the message is more pronounced. The more bands that treat it that way, the more clearly that trend represents that period in music.

Evan, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:32 (fourteen years ago) link

"blatant then*"

Evan, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:33 (fourteen years ago) link

an example?

Okay, Erykah Badu.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:37 (fourteen years ago) link

instead of listing artists, i'll just point out that you probably need to have been living under a rock if you haven't noticed how the past decade of US politics has galvanised many, many musicians into political actions or musical statements, from the dixie chicks to nas to erykah badu

haha xp

لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:38 (fourteen years ago) link

and in terms of political action i rate t.i. going round schools talking to kids as part of the rock the vote campaign, or indeed lady gaga and christina aguilera forcing themes and images of queerness into the very centre of society, way higher than the incredibly, dumb, INEFFECTIVE, pointlessly "rebellious" music you seem to be hankering for

لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:40 (fourteen years ago) link

hey, I hear there was this one woman who had a big hit that a lot of ppl liked and was a critics darling and had a bazillion post ILM thread and was agit-prop as fuck. can't remember her name tho.

The Reverend, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:45 (fourteen years ago) link

in the 2000s, to clarify

The Reverend, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:46 (fourteen years ago) link

La Roux?

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:47 (fourteen years ago) link

Annie from Norway?

woof, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:47 (fourteen years ago) link

True Bush did really keep that theme alive.

Evan, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:47 (fourteen years ago) link

you're all wrong. I speak of Katy Perry.

The Reverend, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:49 (fourteen years ago) link

she brought queer themes to the v. centre of society by kissing girls and liking it

The Reverend, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:52 (fourteen years ago) link

ah yes, critical darling Katy Perry, how could we forget

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:52 (fourteen years ago) link

^_^

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:53 (fourteen years ago) link

xposts

lex, i think you're missing the point. as i've said over and over, i'm not hankering for anything particular at all. also, i don't see how r'n'b artists visiting schools (altruisitc a gesture as that may be) equates to the same thing as a mass countercultural youth movement.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 15:50 (fourteen years ago) link

Calling crusty a "mass countercultural youth movement" is pretty charitable. And the countercultural aspects of rave are often overplayed.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 16:34 (fourteen years ago) link

meanwhile calling t.i. an "r&b artist" is just wrong, and did your eyes just slip past the numerous direct answers to your question re: political and politicised artists of the 00s without taking them in?

لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 16:41 (fourteen years ago) link

*sigh*

we're back here again where i end up arguing with matt dc and the lex about the same old things we've been arguing about for the last five years. shall we call this particular one quits, as it's straying very far from the original bit of this thread when we were talking about crusties.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 17:19 (fourteen years ago) link

the last thing i'm gonna say (i promise), is while it's great that popstars get up and do the kind of work lex mentioned, people do react to different stimuli, and if that kind of stimulus happens to be unhinged reactionary rock or dance with an explicit socio-political message, i don't see why this can't co-exist with more subtle acts. Certainly beats that crappy Live Aid reunion in 2005. And it definitely beats bands who have an angry sound and a directionless message. Music isn't going to change the world, but it can make people think a little from time to time.

dog latin, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 17:25 (fourteen years ago) link

and in terms of political action i rate t.i. going round schools talking to kids as part of the rock the vote campaign, or indeed lady gaga and christina aguilera forcing themes and images of queerness into the very centre of society, way higher than the incredibly, dumb, INEFFECTIVE, pointlessly "rebellious" music you seem to be hankering for

Madonna brought gayness (as in lesbian) into the mainstream in the "Justify My Love" video already. Not to mention all the openly gay male pop icons of the 80s.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:08 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, like Boy George and... um...

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:08 (fourteen years ago) link

Jimmy Sommerville, for starters. Unlike Boy George, he even sung about it.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link

who the fuck is Jimmy Sommerville you crazy robot

Mr. Que, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:13 (fourteen years ago) link

(bronski beat, communards)

And guess what? I think Pitchfork is going to give it a BM. (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:14 (fourteen years ago) link

never heard of them, sorry

Mr. Que, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:16 (fourteen years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mlpxOaQinE

.... Really?

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:16 (fourteen years ago) link

hey what does "crusty" mean in the UK again?

like in the U.S. it's stinky punx that have tattoos on their faces and listen to bands that sound like inept slayer recorded in a 7-11 bathroom

but in the UK it's like techno music that wants to be Weather Report and everyone has dreads and shit?

And guess what? I think Pitchfork is going to give it a BM. (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:16 (fourteen years ago) link

As for The Communards, they weren't really all that large in the US. Probably because the lyrics were still considered controversial in the Reagan-era.

Erasure I believe also had some US hits though, and Andy Bell was never afraid to talk about his orientation.

Soft Cell and Pet Shop Boys were definitely huge, but I am not sure whether Neil Tennant and Marc Almond were really "out" back then.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:19 (fourteen years ago) link

kinda. but here it was linked with a "new age traveller" movement and interloped with several musical genres not just rave-based techno. it got a lot of media coverage between 92 and 96 but did seem to fade into obscurity post nu-Labour. xp

mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:21 (fourteen years ago) link

xp: IIRC neither was (Almond, Tennant; also calling Tennant a "heartthrob" is generous at best) (okay it is batshit crazy)

Erasure had 2 top 20 hits in 1988 in the US; their profile here was nothing like their profile in Europe.

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:22 (fourteen years ago) link

it just makes me think of shite like carter usm and the levellers. so please dont let shite like this ever make a comeback.
xp

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link

aw, good old Carter

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link

they were terrible in exactly the right way IMO

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link

its sad he was an unstoppable sex machine

And guess what? I think Pitchfork is going to give it a BM. (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:24 (fourteen years ago) link

A Grebo revival is def not needed.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:24 (fourteen years ago) link

xpln the connection btween christina and queerness???

plax (ico), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:24 (fourteen years ago) link

for a while, she dressed and acted like a super tacky drag queen

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:25 (fourteen years ago) link

no it's just that all the super tacky drag queens were acting like Xtina

mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:28 (fourteen years ago) link

(this is the time period I am thinking of)

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:29 (fourteen years ago) link

can't believe they ripped off her style like that, worse than roisin stealing lady gaga's clothes and travelling back in time imo

mdskltr (blueski), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:30 (fourteen years ago) link

um, the "beautiful" video

لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:30 (fourteen years ago) link

Also worth pointing out the various climate camps, protests through the City of London, anti-war marches etc that have gone on very regularly and dead set in the centre of the media glare recently. Although the musical soundtrack to this often appears to be psytrance or boshing drum and bass.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 09:59 (fourteen years ago) link

the nineties evidently never went away for some

nakhchivan, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 10:17 (fourteen years ago) link

Which is why a 90s revival cannot happen shortly. The 90s will at first have to be the definition of uncool before they can be revived.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 10:24 (fourteen years ago) link

Tell me about it, my wife is still looking for those Galliano tapes that I fed to the dog. xp

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 10:24 (fourteen years ago) link

In order to save the 90s, we have to destroy the 90s

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 10:25 (fourteen years ago) link

xpost

RSPCA case imo

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 10:25 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, but I doubt they'll be able to re-home her what with the kids and everything.

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 10:30 (fourteen years ago) link

There's an article in today's G2 about how the dole queue went from "a badge of failure, to one of punk pride and back again".

It seems that at a certain point in history there was a certain romance behind not wanting to conform to getting a day job, wearing a tie, pandering to the man etc.

I think a lot of people, mostly kids from middle class backgrounds I can imagine, became disgusted by the '80s yuppie mentality and Thatcher-era notions of conformity; becoming caught up in grassroots activism, anti-capitalist movements and squatter culture. This is a vein that goes back as far as the fifties, through the hippie movement, and was at its most explicit in punk music (Crass, The Slits, UB40(!))

I suppose back then they considered themselves heroic in a way, but these days it might be considered less so, even villainous to actively withdraw from day-to-day society by contributing as little as possible.

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 10:33 (fourteen years ago) link

I think it's cos employment mostly sucks but they've made signing on an even bigger pain in the balls tbh

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 10:36 (fourteen years ago) link

but aren't all the "hey remember saved by the bell etc" lols symptomatic of the so-bad-its-good-isms that are the harbinger of revivals

plax (ico), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 10:44 (fourteen years ago) link

Symptomatic of 19 year olds iirc

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 10:46 (fourteen years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQamw4xxxHY

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:01 (fourteen years ago) link

Symptomatic of 19 year olds iirc

― Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:46 AM (20 minutes ago)

exactly tho, these revivals are mainly propelled by the romanticisation of an era by a gen. who half missed it.

plax (ico), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:07 (fourteen years ago) link

xposts you could be right, noodle

i think that general attitudes have changed quite a bit though. part of me wonders if it's a personal thing, i.e. the fact i've grown up and got a job and am now thinking about things like how the economy actually works and a belief that people should contribute to society for it to work. then again, i really don't think the average young person wants to bring down the system any more.

teenagers don't aspire to withdrawing from capitalist society any more. it's seen as a cliche. you don't see the characters on skins concerning themselves over such trivialities as "world issues" etc - it seems they have so much inner turmoil already that the wider world is a false cause. the only people in that show who do seem to show off the punk spirit are the parents, for instance Naomi's mother who lives in a communal house, and is portrayed as highly insensitive to her own surroundings and is generally greeted with a despairing rolling of the eyes by the younger characters.

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:08 (fourteen years ago) link

Never underestimate the extent to which aging warps yr opinions, but yeah I think we're living in responsible, post-history times when not aspiring to be a good worker/consumer and contribute to the accelerating annihilation of human beings is looked on as being a lot more oddball than it was 30 years ago.

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:14 (fourteen years ago) link

but please let's kill of that urgh-word Punk, which was always way more about the new narcissism than it was about revololution

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:15 (fourteen years ago) link

these days it might be considered less so, even villainous to actively withdraw from day-to-day society by contributing as little as possible.

Welcome to the 1950s

The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:22 (fourteen years ago) link

teenagers don't aspire to withdrawing from capitalist society any more. it's seen as a cliche. you don't see the characters on skins concerning themselves over such trivialities as "world issues" etc

that's possibly not the best source for kidz related knowledge, though granted it's better than having brian eno as yr youth affairs tsar or whatever

nakhchivan, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:25 (fourteen years ago) link

but please let's kill of that urgh-word Punk, which was always way more about the new narcissism

Hence "I wish I was a punk rocker with flowers in my hair"

the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:28 (fourteen years ago) link

Revolution of the Mind, man

The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:29 (fourteen years ago) link

No gesture so radical as etc etc iirc

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:30 (fourteen years ago) link

Think withdrawing from capitalist society has always been somewhere near the bottom of most teenagers' priority lists to be honest.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:33 (fourteen years ago) link

Depends what you mean by "withdrawal"

The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:35 (fourteen years ago) link

Not getting a job has been popular in the past

The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:36 (fourteen years ago) link

when i was 14 i had a phase of wanting to join the travellers. for the travelling.

mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:39 (fourteen years ago) link

Circuses out of favour by then

The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:39 (fourteen years ago) link

... animal cruelty and all that

The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:40 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah they ran a funfair. it seemed like a sweet life.

mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:40 (fourteen years ago) link

Think withdrawing from capitalist society has always been somewhere near the bottom of most teenagers' priority lists to be honest.

Was always third on the list behind turn on and tune in.

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:40 (fourteen years ago) link

tbf "teenagers" have only existed for 50-ish years and the word is basically marketing-speak anyway so what wd u expect?

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:41 (fourteen years ago) link

hey what does "crusty" mean in the UK again?

like in the U.S. it's stinky punx that have tattoos on their faces and listen to bands that sound like inept slayer recorded in a 7-11 bathroom

but in the UK it's like techno music that wants to be Weather Report and everyone has dreads and shit?

It's a bit confusing because we have the former here too, I mean AFAIK the term crust-punk even originated here with stuff like Amebix/Doom/Deviated Instinct etc but the whole new age traveller/rave thing became more well known in the public eye as "crusty" and there you go.

Colonel Poo, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:41 (fourteen years ago) link

Raggle-Taggle was a better label imo

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:43 (fourteen years ago) link

The travellers are still out there in their thousands right? I assume that I just don't see them now because I live in London & there is no room here for their gaily-painted caravans/piss-stink campers.

woof, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Think they all fucked off to mainland Europe after The Man kept holding them down over here.

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:46 (fourteen years ago) link

That would make sense! They always were fond of the 'dam.

woof, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:50 (fourteen years ago) link

It did annoy me circa 1993, when I got my politics from the nme, that it meant anti-bypasses, not washing, jugglers, dreads, didgeridoos, Back To The Planet and so forth. I quite like driving on bypasses, and none of the rest has ever featured prominently in my life.

I only recently found out where Newbury was too, and it made me laugh.

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:53 (fourteen years ago) link

They always were fond of the 'dam.

Indeed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVBVQTJQQog

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 11:54 (fourteen years ago) link

The '90s didn't really have enough wacky fashion styles to laugh at, but certain things are definitely being come-round to.

vs.:

- Starter jackets
-Mini-backpacks (black patent leather)
-slap bracelets
-backpacks shaped like animals
-the Cher Horowitz schoolgirl look
-No Fear shirts
-body glitter
-high-heeled flip flops
-Peace sign/ying yang/smiley face accessories*
-baggy JNCO jeans
-tiny tees
-lip liner without lipstick
-Army pants
-tucking in your t-shirt in the front, but not the back
-Tevas
-choker necklaces
-crushed velvet dresses
-Tommy Hilfiger everything
-pacifier/raver jewelry

Jack traded Milky-White to the troll for a magical (remy bean), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:17 (fourteen years ago) link

90s revival must revolve around wearing all of those things at the same time

mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:18 (fourteen years ago) link

List needs Global Hypercolor t-shirts

Colonel Poo, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:23 (fourteen years ago) link

crustie new-age tossers vs nathan barley hipster tossers.

same breed, different time.

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:23 (fourteen years ago) link

oh and the list needs those jester festival hats. and cropped'n'bleached hair. and "step/undercut" haircuts. spliffy jeans too. black bomber jackets could go in.

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:24 (fourteen years ago) link

Was going to say Global Hypercolor. I'd settle for a nineties revival based entirely around The Crystal Maze.

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:28 (fourteen years ago) link

I wore my JNCOs to Amsterdam and got mercilessly needled by a reggae coffee shop proprietor.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:30 (fourteen years ago) link

Green bomber jackets with WORLD DANCE written on the back.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:32 (fourteen years ago) link

Has the jeans fashion pendulum swung back from tight to baggy yet?

Matt DC, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:33 (fourteen years ago) link

Once that happens we'll know we're in a new decade.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:33 (fourteen years ago) link

Mini-backpacks (black patent leather)

^ just inexplicable

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:34 (fourteen years ago) link

Actually I take back everything I said yesterday:

http://www.beardedtheory.co.uk/lineup.php

Spot the odd one out on that festival bill.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:34 (fourteen years ago) link

Once that happens we'll know we're in a new decade.

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:33 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

if there's one thing i crave it's this.

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:35 (fourteen years ago) link

The '90s didn't really have enough wacky fashion styles to laugh at

Sagging baggy pants will look even more ridiculous in 2025 than big late 80s mullets do today.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:36 (fourteen years ago) link

Has the jeans fashion pendulum swung back from tight to baggy yet?

It has to swing properly back to tight at first yet. Today they are still baggy, although more moderate baggy than in the 90s.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:38 (fourteen years ago) link

(Except for among emo's, but they are still considered outsiders)

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:39 (fourteen years ago) link

looool

plax (ico), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:40 (fourteen years ago) link

so ur brain has actually stopped allowing in new information circa 1998?

plax (ico), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:40 (fourteen years ago) link

geir, don't know about norway but indie/hipster types have been wearing some painfully tight keks these last few years. curse these footballer's legs.

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:41 (fourteen years ago) link

Geir's Fashion Tips <--------- new thread urgently needed

The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:41 (fourteen years ago) link

Bot a Porter

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:42 (fourteen years ago) link

that Bearded Festival... I think my brain just fell out through my eyesockets. Jesus, just imagine being there. Actually don't, really don't!

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:45 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.cheapmonday.com/#collections/collection-ss10/jeans

tho

plax (ico), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:46 (fourteen years ago) link

Can't wait for jeans that fit me to come back into fash

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:46 (fourteen years ago) link

animals are banned at Bearded Theory, which must cut out half the key demographic

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:48 (fourteen years ago) link

nothing ever dies

nakhchivan, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:48 (fourteen years ago) link

There's a children's area. Textbook abuse taking a kid to this thing imo

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:51 (fourteen years ago) link

more 90s fashion:

sketchers
bowling shirts
sweatshirts tied around waste
brightly-colored fanny packs

wsing pumpkins (The Reverend), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:54 (fourteen years ago) link

White jeans.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:56 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh man, I've seen the King Blues. This is the wikipedia description, just imagine the horror:

The King Blues are an Acoustic-Ska band accredited for fusing ska and acoustic folk together with influences from Punk and Hardcore. They originate from London, England. Influences include Public Enemy, The Clash, The Specials and Minor Threat.

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:56 (fourteen years ago) link

They originate from London, England

Whodathoughit?

The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:57 (fourteen years ago) link

accredited for

Wiki Malapropism of the Week [/Harry Hill]

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:58 (fourteen years ago) link

ok so this is whats coming back, really you kinda need to reinvent the most horrible aspects of the past because your trauma-repression impulse is what makes everything you tried to forget seem really fresh in a couple years

plax (ico), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:58 (fourteen years ago) link

Were the late 90s the only time it was acceptable* for white guys to be a bit on the porky side? All that frat-boy nu-metal stuff had its fair share of bloaters.

*i realise i am using a very liberal definition of the word "acceptable" here.

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 12:58 (fourteen years ago) link

Possibly first time since the Edwardian era

The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:00 (fourteen years ago) link

sketchers

Never went away.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:08 (fourteen years ago) link

Were the late 90s the only time it was acceptable* for white guys to be a bit on the porky side?

ok this is your most wtf suggestion yet

mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:09 (fourteen years ago) link

Other things that could be revived ironically or not:

Early '90s Queen Latifah mutlicolour leggings and fruit hats and zebra stripes in your music video and all that kind of thing?

British magazine telly - Big Breakfast/TFI Friday/Don't Forget Your Toothbrush/The Word/They Think It's All Over/Eurotrash/ITV Chart Show/Motormouth/What's Up Doc etc?

And Big Beat? No not the Chems, I'm talkin 'bout Midfield General and BRA!

Nike Air? Reebok Pumps? Puma Disc System?

WWF, Hulk Hogan, Legion Of Doom, Suburban Commando, Cool Runnings, Desert Strike bubblegum cards, Micro Machines?

Sheffield House/Bleep-Techno?

Mid-90s Britrock - Skunk Anansie, 3 Colours Red, Placebo, Groop Dogdrill, Therapy? ?

Trashy shit from Europe - Rednex, Whigfield, Mark Oh!, Scatman John etc.

BTW these were all on the shelves at Sainsbury's Hitchin (the only place you can buy CDs any more in the whole town) when I went shopping last night. The revival is inevitable:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mash-Up-Mix-90s-Various/dp/B0036V0WIU
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Push-Various-artist/dp/B0030EH54C/ref=pd_sim_m_h__4

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:11 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.kinkfm.com/images/image/smash%20mouth.jpgx-post

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:11 (fourteen years ago) link

googling random bearded theory acts.

UK psytrance at it's best - overflowing with energy, adrenaline and positivity, including stomping didgeridoo and searing guitar riffs throughout.

woof, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:11 (fourteen years ago) link

holy lol at the bearded festival

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:13 (fourteen years ago) link

psytrance is the most '90s style of music that didn't exist in the 90s.

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:13 (fourteen years ago) link

?!?!?!

mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:16 (fourteen years ago) link

stomping didgeridoo

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:21 (fourteen years ago) link

sounds messy

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:21 (fourteen years ago) link

Most of the first mucky raves/festivals I attended were psytrance affairs. In the 90s

Not a musician, but I thought of Justin Fashanu for some reason (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:21 (fourteen years ago) link

Scatman John was not trashy shit from Europe, he was awesome shit from America.

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:22 (fourteen years ago) link

The time to revive Scatman John was many years ago ;_;

Not a musician, but I thought of Justin Fashanu for some reason (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:24 (fourteen years ago) link

I preferred the instrumental mix

mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:24 (fourteen years ago) link

I hadn't banked on Alistair Darling's 10% cider tax. The crusties will be protesting in numbers we haven't seen since Swampy.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:34 (fourteen years ago) link

Please tell me the cider tax is a joek

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:36 (fourteen years ago) link

JEEZ YOU BASTARDS WE'RE THROUGH

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:37 (fourteen years ago) link

there are times i'm glad that my awareness of popular music began somewhere between xtrmntr and kid a

nakhchivan, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Sexual Intercourse first began in 1993
Between the end of Bobby Gillespie's driving ban
And Radiohead's 4th LP

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Did he fight for naught?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l143/joeythegreat_2006/music_jilted_generation.jpg

woof, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:31 (fourteen years ago) link

that's always been in my top 5 horrible lol horrible album arts

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:32 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah, that was a confusing insert.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:32 (fourteen years ago) link

it is like the hash dream of a wee tiny drugged-up bairn

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:33 (fourteen years ago) link

his shadow looks so wrong, never noticed before

mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:35 (fourteen years ago) link

i'm sad to admit that mid-fold was always a guilty pleasure of mine. total cartoon anarchy and it summed up MFAJG perfectly. Then again I was 14 when it came out so I'm blinkered.

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:36 (fourteen years ago) link

Isn't he cutting himself off from the power station providing the juice for his mates' big fuck off speakers etc?

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:38 (fourteen years ago) link

They were all going to get into acoustic ska anyway.

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:42 (fourteen years ago) link

they have their own generator OBVIOUSLY

mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:43 (fourteen years ago) link

(xp)

Probably borrowed a generator from a local farm.

woof, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:43 (fourteen years ago) link

At the time, it reminded me more of Grateful Dead shows than ravers, but I guess it was less confusing than when I saw a picture of Keith for the first time.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:43 (fourteen years ago) link

xp, correction: 'borrowed'

woof, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:45 (fourteen years ago) link

fuck haters, that artwork will always be classic. according to richard russell's twitter XL still get requests for it in giant poster form.

mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:45 (fourteen years ago) link

Field full of E'd up crusties, huge crevasse, no fence.

Shd end well.

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:45 (fourteen years ago) link

looks like The Man got to you too

mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:46 (fourteen years ago) link

Can't see clearly but the copper on the other side is frantically sawing away at his end of the rope iirc

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:48 (fourteen years ago) link

Why are the riot police forming a cordon? Wouldn't the canyon do that job rather well?

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:48 (fourteen years ago) link

since he's armed they could take him down with a leg shot with no repercussions.

harshbuzz to my chilt-on (zvookster), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:48 (fourteen years ago) link

Surely the Man could just fly over the chasm in a helicopter gunship?

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:48 (fourteen years ago) link

Crop sprayer + nerve gas = best option

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:49 (fourteen years ago) link

I am cool with it as long as they clean up that field after themselves.

woof, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:49 (fourteen years ago) link

Field full of guys twitching and drooling uncontrollably oh hang on

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:49 (fourteen years ago) link

noodle vague's nerve gas fetish began in 1995
between the tokyo sarin attacks
and the third lp by live

nakhchivan, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:51 (fourteen years ago) link

i think it has a role to play in removal of unwanted pests

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:52 (fourteen years ago) link

xp A CoMANche helicopter gunship, you mean?

Neil S, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:52 (fourteen years ago) link

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:52 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm a bit confused as to where this thing is supposed to be. Looks like the Isle of Wight with Portsmouth in the distance?

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:53 (fourteen years ago) link

Nice they got Derek Smalls to agree to do the rope-cutting ceremony though.

Neil S, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:55 (fourteen years ago) link

Can't see clearly but the copper on the other side is frantically sawing away at his end of the rope iirc

http://images.harvie.cz/prodigy-jilted_generation.jpg

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:55 (fourteen years ago) link

goddamnit

kingkongvsgodzilla, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:55 (fourteen years ago) link

Gotham City to the left I believe

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:56 (fourteen years ago) link

Showing the bizzies his spliff is only going to get him in more trouble, y'know

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:00 (fourteen years ago) link

This image proves to me that yes it is ok to like things ironically.

the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:01 (fourteen years ago) link

psytrance is the most '90s style of music that didn't exist in the 90s.

dog latin why are you such a wikipedia of wrong?

Tim F, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:02 (fourteen years ago) link

tbf wikipedia is also a wikipedia of wrong

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:03 (fourteen years ago) link

except the french house page, which i had to edit big time. someone else has probably fucked it up again since.

mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:06 (fourteen years ago) link

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5343/twyford.jpg

It actually looks a lot like Twyford Down. It's only the M3 that's saving these crusties from a shoeing.

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:10 (fourteen years ago) link

my workmate (25) just started singing "what a beautiful day" by the levellers - it begins

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:11 (fourteen years ago) link

The only major rope bridge in the UK seems to be the one at Carrick-a-rede, but I don't think that can be right.

woof, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:12 (fourteen years ago) link

Could be Twyford, but boy, has Winchester ever changed a lot.

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:19 (fourteen years ago) link

sorry tim, i only really heard of psy-trance in the 00's. before that people i knew always called it goa trance. they sound the smae to me though.

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:21 (fourteen years ago) link

Never occurred to me that the picture might be a Masquerade-esque puzzle, leading a lucky fan to find one of Keith's old cock rings buried in a field somewhere.

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:31 (fourteen years ago) link

I quite like the Kid606 version of that gatefold http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3096/3101987756_cd85329bfe_o.jpg

(it's the only version I can find and it's a bit hueg)

Not a musician, but I thought of Justin Fashanu for some reason (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:37 (fourteen years ago) link

thank you

mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:40 (fourteen years ago) link

Read an essay on the Prodigy and Kid606 pictures a couple of weeks ago:

http://datacide.c8.com/commodities-for-the-jilted-generation/

no-nonsense, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 15:45 (fourteen years ago) link

wathing one of those videos by the xx reminded me that people have an infinite capacity for the ultra-cool deadpan short sharp shocked thing a la elastica. cuz it makes people feel cooler and bands like that always feel/seem "new" even if they aren't. or at least they do for a little while. like a new fashion line.

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 16:08 (fourteen years ago) link

"watching" not wathing

scott seward, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 16:10 (fourteen years ago) link

While we're talking graphics, I'll be looking forward to seeing these:

http://img19.imagehosting.gr/out.php/i1159740_1-2-3d-magic-eye.jpg

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 17:01 (fourteen years ago) link

Also this?

http://eschright.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/MANDELBROT2.11144535.jpg

woof, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 17:06 (fourteen years ago) link

woah. What were those things supposed to be?

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 17:08 (fourteen years ago) link

i can SEE it!!!!

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 17:09 (fourteen years ago) link

when worlds collide:

http://een.se/niklas/sis/bw/mandel_preview.jpg

the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Wednesday, 24 March 2010 17:09 (fourteen years ago) link

i had "the invisible man" on my bedroom wall. the 90s were pretty garish overall.

dog latin, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 17:10 (fourteen years ago) link

garish, faddish 3D already back!

'baby got back' used to sell tweens backpacks at target and flava flav reality shows means 90s have already been stripmined?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 17:22 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.flyingrhino.co.uk/picts/webtitle2.jpg

Lamp, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 17:44 (fourteen years ago) link

i live in hope

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 17:47 (fourteen years ago) link

This thread has turned out great, against all expectations!

Neil S, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 20:44 (fourteen years ago) link

sorry tim, i only really heard of psy-trance in the 00's. before that people i knew always called it goa trance. they sound the smae to me though.

They are the same. I was into that stuff for a short time in the mid-nineties, and I went to my first Goa trance party in 1996, so I can guarantee psy-trance and Goa are the same genre. It's true that it was called Goa trance first, but I'm pretty sure people started using the term "psychedelic trance" already in the 90s.

Tuomas, Thursday, 25 March 2010 08:22 (fourteen years ago) link

Phantasm compilation from 1995 with "Psychedelic Trance" on its cover: http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=149783

no-nonsense, Thursday, 25 March 2010 09:08 (fourteen years ago) link

hairy-muff, and now you mention it yeah i think i do remember people calling it that back in the 90s. the old grey matter's not what it used to be.

dog latin, Thursday, 25 March 2010 09:55 (fourteen years ago) link

Too much Hooch amirite?

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Thursday, 25 March 2010 11:13 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.ncbe.reading.ac.uk/dna50/Resources/springwater.jpeg

kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 25 March 2010 11:18 (fourteen years ago) link

^posted in utter shame

kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 25 March 2010 11:18 (fourteen years ago) link

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK IS THAT?!

Matt DC, Thursday, 25 March 2010 11:29 (fourteen years ago) link

Booze flavored like bad candy and marketed towards ravers or maybe Xfiles fans.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 25 March 2010 11:34 (fourteen years ago) link

I did not know this at the time, but it was brought to you by the same company that made Jolt!

kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, 25 March 2010 11:36 (fourteen years ago) link

the 90s were pretty garish overall

these sweeping gens should've been left in the 90s themselves.

mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 25 March 2010 12:25 (fourteen years ago) link

Another over-used one: "grunge destroyed hair metal".

Neil S, Thursday, 25 March 2010 12:27 (fourteen years ago) link

Cause we all know Metallica did that.

Siegbran, Thursday, 25 March 2010 23:31 (fourteen years ago) link

From the perspective of someone who was a tween at the time and who just bided his time from new Motley Crue album to new Extreme album to new Poison album, it sure felt that way to me! xp to Neil S.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 26 March 2010 00:45 (fourteen years ago) link

from what i remember there was quite a bit of a crossover period with bands like Tigertailz and Poison being around at the same time as Pearl Jam et al. Then you had bands who were kind of half way, not really grunge, but still tatty - the Quireboys, Guns'n'Roses, Skid Row...

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 26 March 2010 01:52 (fourteen years ago) link

geir, don't know about norway but indie/hipster types have been wearing some painfully tight keks these last few years. curse these footballer's legs.

Indie fans are outsiders.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Friday, 26 March 2010 12:03 (fourteen years ago) link

that hasn't really been true since about 1995.

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 26 March 2010 12:16 (fourteen years ago) link

In fairness, nowhere in Geirworld does Russell Brand exist, so it must be a pretty nice place to be.

Matt DC, Friday, 26 March 2010 12:20 (fourteen years ago) link

This was in the player at my mates' house the other day:

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Dance-Tip-A-Decade-Of-Dance/release/1469633

i can already hear these tracks ironicising student dancefloors across the land. probably already happening.

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 26 March 2010 12:34 (fourteen years ago) link

that hasn't really been true since about 1995.

It is true and remains true. The average 13 year-old kid still likes pop and hip-hop, just like in 1995 and 1990.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Friday, 26 March 2010 12:57 (fourteen years ago) link

(And the mainstream, as in pop mainstream, will always be defined by 13YO kids)

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Friday, 26 March 2010 12:58 (fourteen years ago) link

yes, but not fashion.

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 26 March 2010 12:59 (fourteen years ago) link

*realises there's no point*

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 26 March 2010 13:02 (fourteen years ago) link

The 90s revival has been happening for awhile, hasn't it? Deep house, for instance..

Tracer Hand, Friday, 26 March 2010 13:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Geir, I'm not sure if it's that different in Norway, but in Finland at least hip-hop and baggy jeans haven't been particularly fashionable for years, and average teens actually do wear tight jeans and dress in "indie" or "rock'n'roll" or "metal" fashion.

Tuomas, Friday, 26 March 2010 13:07 (fourteen years ago) link

The 90s revival has been happening for awhile, hasn't it? Deep house, for instance..

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 26 March 2010 13:05 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I wouldn't necessarily call that a 90s revival, just a deep house revival. Despite a dearth of electro in the '90s, you still got little pockets of it, I-F's "Space Invaders Are Smoking Grass" from 1996 for example. these things aren't that clear cut i guess.

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 26 March 2010 14:14 (fourteen years ago) link

Dearth of electro? In the 90s you had Alter Ego, Jedi Knights, Two Lone Swordsmen, Kerosene, Khan, DJ Hell, Mike Paradinas, etc etc, all of them doing their take on electro. Though I guess you're right that the 00s electro was more about reviving certain parts of 80s electro wholesale, whereas 90s electro was more about building on the foundation of the 80s. (I prefer the 90s style.)

Tuomas, Friday, 26 March 2010 15:26 (fourteen years ago) link

The names you mention were very much underground though.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Friday, 26 March 2010 15:59 (fourteen years ago) link

As in, I mean, there will always be an underground for reviving styles that were popular in the past. Particularly with the net, you can find a revival underground scene for any genre that has ever been popular.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Friday, 26 March 2010 16:00 (fourteen years ago) link

even britpop

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 26 March 2010 16:05 (fourteen years ago) link

Don't know about the others, Tuomas, but I I'd argue that 2LS's '90s stuff wasn't really electro. Obviously there was an influence, same as dub, funk and punk etc but they didn't make a proper electro album till 2000's Tiny Reminders. Same with Mike Paradinas, although granted the Jake Slazenger project could have been interpreted as electro.

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 26 March 2010 16:12 (fourteen years ago) link

oh hey i actually have a real question. what was going on in the 90's that would create/help create the whole german kompakt/microhouse scene/sound? were those guys just listening to minimal detroit techno records in the 90's? were they big idm fans? i think i might have actually answered my own question...

scott seward, Friday, 26 March 2010 16:24 (fourteen years ago) link

+ several preceding Euro labels e.g. Basic Channel, F Com, Emissions, Ladomat 2000

mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 26 March 2010 16:30 (fourteen years ago) link

i'd say Tresor was headed in the very micro-tech kind of direction as well for awhile

Tracer Hand, Friday, 26 March 2010 16:39 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm trying to work out which record from the 90s will be ripped off the most. I'm thinking Hip Hop Hooray by Naughty by Nature at the moment.

Matt DC, Friday, 26 March 2010 16:51 (fourteen years ago) link

since this thread began i've discovered/rediscovered Credit To The Nation - why weren't this band MUCH bigger than they were? Definitely ahead of their time in the Brit-hop stakes.

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 26 March 2010 16:54 (fourteen years ago) link

Matt DC - I reckon it'll be "Come Baby Come" by K7 - a big dumb party anthem which Djs of the "Boom Shake The Room" variety seem to have slept on.

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 26 March 2010 16:55 (fourteen years ago) link

Come Baby Come will need to appear in a Judd Apatow film first.

Matt DC, Friday, 26 March 2010 16:57 (fourteen years ago) link

xpost
^^^

(big, dumb and really really fun, that should say)

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 26 March 2010 16:57 (fourteen years ago) link

Definitely ahead of their time in the Brit-hop stakes.

By sampling Nirvana? hmm

mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 26 March 2010 17:14 (fourteen years ago) link

even britpop

Britpop becomes pointless as a retro genre because it was one hundred per cent retro anyway. Even in the mainstream, there is still music that has roughly the same musical roots as Britpop.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Friday, 26 March 2010 17:15 (fourteen years ago) link

tbf i've only heard Call It What You Want (good) and that track he did with Chumbawumba (terrible iirc)

mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 26 March 2010 17:15 (fourteen years ago) link

Come on, it is only a matter of time before a grime MC samples Nirvana. Dizzee's people are probably working on it already.

Matt DC, Friday, 26 March 2010 17:18 (fourteen years ago) link

Whither Collapsed Lung?

the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Friday, 26 March 2010 17:19 (fourteen years ago) link

Actually 'In Bloom' would sound great with I Luv U-style drums and bass bombs.

Matt DC, Friday, 26 March 2010 17:19 (fourteen years ago) link

Incidentally I picked up this week's NME while waiting for a train this morning and they were positively reappraising the Babylon Zoo album. Now I've seen everything.

Matt DC, Friday, 26 March 2010 17:20 (fourteen years ago) link

wait waht

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Friday, 26 March 2010 17:25 (fourteen years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_CEjQ0vQrM&feature=related

like, really?

ALLAH! *rolls on floor* (HI DERE), Friday, 26 March 2010 17:29 (fourteen years ago) link

The world is still waiting for Styx and Barclay James Harvest to be reappraised.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Friday, 26 March 2010 17:32 (fourteen years ago) link

Using Dalston club nights as a general barometer of emerging hipster tastes - 90s rnb seems to be making a comeback. Ironically of course.

metalfingers, Friday, 26 March 2010 17:47 (fourteen years ago) link

the world can keep waiting

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 26 March 2010 17:48 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm surprised this thread has only just started, hasn't there been 2-step and jungle throwbacks around for a while now? A lot of noisy pavement-ey type bands around too.

metalfingers, Friday, 26 March 2010 17:50 (fourteen years ago) link

Incidentally I picked up this week's NME while waiting for a train this morning and they were positively reappraising the Babylon Zoo album. Now I've seen everything

"They were the MGMT of their day!!"

Gavin in Leeds, Friday, 26 March 2010 19:15 (fourteen years ago) link

TBH, they were no Stiltskin.

Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Friday, 26 March 2010 19:18 (fourteen years ago) link

Jas Mann, now best known for being clowned by Chris Morris.

Neil S, Friday, 26 March 2010 19:20 (fourteen years ago) link

http://i39.tinypic.com/21eqcud.jpg

turkeylurkeyknull, Saturday, 27 March 2010 09:20 (fourteen years ago) link

Don't know about the others, Tuomas, but I I'd argue that 2LS's '90s stuff wasn't really electro. Obviously there was an influence, same as dub, funk and punk etc but they didn't make a proper electro album till 2000's Tiny Reminders. Same with Mike Paradinas, although granted the Jake Slazenger project could have been interpreted as electro.

Well yeah, maybe 2LS were not the best example, as they've done lots of different stuff, but some of their 90s tunes, like "Black Commandments", sound like electro to me. And the Jake Slazenger material is deinitely. Anyway, my point was that many people were making their version of electro throughout the 90s, all that happened in the 00s was that the sort of electro that was recycling 80s sounds and/or adding vocals to it became popular.

Tuomas, Saturday, 27 March 2010 13:20 (fourteen years ago) link

"And the Jake Slazenger material is definitely electro."

Tuomas, Saturday, 27 March 2010 13:20 (fourteen years ago) link

hip-hop will get rid of it's DJs, and put mediocre raps on top of electronic beats that were meant for the club. soulless dance music overall will be very popular. what a minute, nevermind...

nicky lo-fi, Saturday, 27 March 2010 16:49 (fourteen years ago) link

hip-hop will get rid of it's DJs

Has already happened, and it was probably hip-hop's wisest move ever. Now it only needs to get some proper producers/songwriters and get rid of the rhythm fixated bunch they are working with now.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 27 March 2010 18:00 (fourteen years ago) link

Geir Hongro: destroying hip-hop in order to save it.

Doctor Casino, Saturday, 27 March 2010 18:02 (fourteen years ago) link

Get rid of those talking fellas and replace with proper singers

Ismael Klata, Saturday, 27 March 2010 18:11 (fourteen years ago) link

Hip-hop currently has both anyway. What is needed now is for the stuff performed by the singers to sound less like Aretha Franklin and more like The Beatles.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 27 March 2010 19:40 (fourteen years ago) link

(sorry for the mistakes, I'm not fluent)
Hi, I'm passionate about the 90s, and I need to draw the more from it, which is not easy to do either in libraries or internet (it's normal, we're talking about future here), so here is what I know:

Remember Jamieroquai, Bjork, Aphex Twin broadcasted on TV? We'll first get this: It was fuckin' Nu-Jazz, Downtempo and IDM being broadcasted on TV! Now, it's all about simple genres like hip-hop, pop-rock, indie and pop only inspired by some disco, soul and a bit of Dubstep. It's going to change.

PART 1: The Beginning
I've had the chance to follow the whole Hype/Electro/"New French Touch"/"Nu Disco" things going on from the beginning, and as someone passionate about music, trends and sociologie, here's my experience of these things:
1. Around 2003 whether in Hip-Hop, Rock, House or Electronic, things started to slow down in innovation, "violence" and excitement, at least on a mainstream level. The Electroclash tried in a last attempt to create something new by mixing all genres: 2 many Djs, Miss Kittin, Felix played as much hip-hop, new wave, indie, disco and all those easy genres, as they could. But it got boring and it didn't bring anything new to the table, or at least it couldn't get the mainstream people attention because it was only for thirty-something-old and more, and for very few teenagers like me. The only "new" and exiting things were experimental japanese (dj food, rei harakami, tujiko noriko...), lo-fi (prefuse, flying lo, rjd2..), a bit of beautiful nathan fake/holden electronica and maybe some techno/electro (vitalic, the hacker, kiko...)
2. In every parts of the world, some teenagers we're getting bored of this especially when they were the only one in their school to be open minded enough to have listen to west coast as well as grunge/nu-metal and french house (in frence). They we're nostalgic about their early kid/teen years and some "souvenirs" wrapped around it: colored sweat, sneakers, and happy dancing music. They gathered on internet, because they knew how to use boards and napster, and realising their common' passion for french rap, as well as uk rock and of course french-touch (I'm talking about what happened in France), they decided to share music and toughts. Some labels like Institubes and EdBangers gathered around it, and started mixing the new influence from "ailleurs": In US, some booty/bass music djs started to be interested about Dirty South Crunk, some A&R working in scandinavia started to be interested in those new italo-disco and trancy inspired pop-song, and some rock passionate in France started getting their old punk/post-punk/new wave vinyls out, and they all shared it on internet.
3. 2005/6 BAM, the "revolution" was here. Articulated around some blogs like "Fluokids", a new generation of teens that we're bored of the monotomy and morals of the age, mainstream music, and clothes, decided (pushed by all these 80s/around 70s/early 90s nostalgic) to break the barrier: And so were born the iPod Battles, where little white kids with New Era Caps and Fluo shirts compared their mp3 collections in a club where Justice, Surkin, Dj Mehdi were showing their last track, which were a mix of saturated rock bass and techno as well as Dirty South Bass and House.

> From there till now, I followed how the whole trend and its different forms spread through the "sociostyles" and class of people. For me it's like a Pyramid has been erected with it's apogee in 2003. This whole pyramid of people produces ideas, thoughts that evaporates in a cloud hovering above the pyramid. And when enough ideas or thought of the same kinds are accumulated in the cloud it gets concentrated in a trend and it start raining on the pyramid. Of course the higher you are in it, the more sensible and forwardseeing you will be.
And so, from the first geek and musicos on internet who saw it and made it happened, it then interested other passionates of music, then the specialized medias and blogs, then some brands, clubs and medias, then some regular skater or cool peoples, then student, then casuals etc...

Augure, Saturday, 27 March 2010 19:42 (fourteen years ago) link

I notice an increasing number of sci-fi-bloggers announcing the future Andy Warhol once described (a society where everyone is a celebrity for five minutes). Well, I still don't believe in that. It will not happen. We may be closer to it, but it will never quite happen. There will always be a need for an "elite" - a few talented people that millions and millions adore and look up to. That's the way it's always been, and it'll always be like that. Even though some sci-fi-freaks believe the Net will change it. It will not.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Saturday, 27 March 2010 19:46 (fourteen years ago) link

PART 2: The End

Now, I'm fucking pissed about the anoying 80s revival, arrogant pagan teenagers who only know pyramids, easy producable fidget or wobble dubstep, etc. And I think that contrary to the 70/80s revival that happened in a pretty specific time where debauchery, nihilism, easy marketing ideas, and party , this 90s revival will occur in a completely different cycle, whether because of the politic, the art, the spirituality etc...But before coming back on this point, here's is the situation I think

From the main "Blog House" (awful name) which consists in saturated bass, and "Nu Disco" (awful name as well) we have gone far. Hip-hop is boring (Timbaland era finished, Crunk era finished) as well. "Electro", as we originaly and wrongly named it, has first evolved into something more bouncy and powerful, the fidget house, and has the name shows it, it was the first sign that even late teenagers and public getting into electro we're already on the bridge that leads back to house. Wobble dubstep is just the continuation, but is also a bridge closer to Techno and IDM/Electronica.

Opportunist from the Electroclash era are coming back, but in opposition to all the 90s group reforming like Skunk Anansie, they go further. Now every casual people, whether students or "beauf" (coach potatoes, guidos etc...) listen to electro, in it's official form (EdBanger), it's pop form ("Nu Disco" and Pop band/artist such as MGMT, La Roux, maybe-upcoming Little Boots) and even horrible form: David Guetta feat Kid Cudi, Black Eyed Pease, Akon...and that's were I can see the difference with a sometime dumb but way more talented artist like Kanye West.

And as we all now, when the mainstream public has put it's grasp on something, it means that this thing is already dead.

Augure, Saturday, 27 March 2010 19:56 (fourteen years ago) link

PART 3: The 90s revival - This guy is certainly crazy
But as a sensible guy, even if i'm a bachelor in Business and Politic, I forecast my thought according to what I feel is going to be the next thing, not in term of material element or themes like specific music, clothes, but more than that: I see a connexion between politics, economics, psychology, art etc...

We always picture the 90s, at least when you're young, as an happy and naive decade, where you could wear awful dresses, listen to awful garage, and think it's stylish. But the happy years we're those that just passed, the 2000s decade, because if get back in time a little bit, the 90s were horrible. What is it with all those apocaliptic movie, nuclear green colors ? What with all the riots and burning car images? What about the "No Future" slogan? What about the intriguing word "New Age", the dressing like a vampire/goth trend, and the many fucking collective suicides? What about the "technocrates" and "technogoth" and those people focused on technology, the future, and not at all in an utopic sunny way, but more of "apocalyptic/resistance" way. What about these "psychologic" and fuck the world, my boss, the office movies (trainspotting, fight club, american psycho...) ? What about the first conspirationnists ?

Yes, you're starting to get it. What's the ton of color from most of the movies/pictures/clips? Blue, Green, cold colors. Sometimes some shy and drab crimson.

For me the 90s isn't about the cliche we've all get around, dance music, naive TV shows or movies, but it's something more subtle, dark, blurred...

In term of music, all the genre from the 90s are coming and you can trust me on this one: Maybe it will start with some recent things from the early 00s like Lo-fi and Electronica (wrongly labeled melodic dubstep) and some bad Minimal Techno, but pretty soon it will get down to the most profound discoveries we can found: Leftfield and experimental, nu-jazz and some old soundtrack jazzey songs or New Age singing, Deep Techno and House, Uk Garage, the big nu-metal come back, downtempo, and the new generation of Hip-Hop..

From what I know, one of the biggest genres coming back in art is the "Lowbrow" aka Pop-Surrealism, some Steam Punk, but I don't really know more then that

And that's where it's you turn to share.

Augure, Saturday, 27 March 2010 20:11 (fourteen years ago) link

tl;sb

stephen juaquin (The Reverend), Sunday, 28 March 2010 21:53 (fourteen years ago) link

arrogant pagan teenagers who only know pyramids

wkiw

mdskltr (blueski), Sunday, 28 March 2010 22:00 (fourteen years ago) link

Sooner or later normal dudes and gals who listen to Unwound will stop being so self aware about their image and how they can work Afro-beat into their brand of messy Brooklyn Animal Collective, MGMT, MIA, or Grizzly Bear aping, and will just wear shirts and jeans that fit and write songs that aren't overstuffed and will sing without forcing themselves to sound over the top in some awful way.

Evan, Sunday, 28 March 2010 22:24 (fourteen years ago) link

And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 28 March 2010 22:36 (fourteen years ago) link

omg this thread

alt-3, gold & silver (Lamp), Sunday, 28 March 2010 22:38 (fourteen years ago) link

I meant a substantial movement in rejection of those stupid trends.

Evan, Sunday, 28 March 2010 22:53 (fourteen years ago) link

Sooner or later normal dudes and gals who listen to Unwound will stop being so self aware about their image and how they can work Afro-beat into their brand of messy Brooklyn Animal Collective, MGMT, MIA, or Grizzly Bear aping, and will just wear shirts and jeans that fit and write songs that aren't overstuffed and will sing without forcing themselves to sound over the top in some awful way.

Your comment is rather reactionary.

micheline, Sunday, 28 March 2010 23:52 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah I was venting.

Evan, Monday, 29 March 2010 01:50 (fourteen years ago) link

Sooner or later normal dudes and gals who listen to Unwound will stop being so self aware about their image and how they can work Afro-beat into their brand of messy Brooklyn Animal Collective, MGMT, MIA, or Grizzly Bear aping, and will just wear shirts and jeans that fit and write songs that aren't overstuffed and will sing without forcing themselves to sound over the top in some awful way.

The backlash against this type of thing outweighs itself. Are people really feeling that this stuff is saturating music, other than those living in the trendier areas of Williamsberg, Hoxton and Portland? Do you really want everyone to start singing and playing according to procedure, like some Simon Cowell shit?

village idiot (dog latin), Monday, 29 March 2010 11:27 (fourteen years ago) link

Nah I was venting about all of the extra bullshit for hipness sake that I see. I saw a band called The Beachniks open for Love Is All, and they really pissed me off. I'm only hoping for the hipness to become less important again, where bands come across like they are more interested in their guitars than their outfits...

I'm speaking very generally, I know.

Evan, Monday, 29 March 2010 12:43 (fourteen years ago) link

Wasn't talking in extremes, so no "Simon Cowell" shit either.

Evan, Monday, 29 March 2010 12:44 (fourteen years ago) link

I guess if it's all around you, I can see why it can get a bit too much. I mean, I genuinely believe bands like Animal Collective and even Dirty Projectors, while intrinscially linked with the bohohipster scenes they've helped to spawn, do have genuine musical vision and a unique take on things. That said, for every good post-freakfolk, post-noise, post-indie band, you do admittedly have about 10 more hopeless mimics. It's the same thing I saw happening in the IDM scene back in 2001 - you had Aphex and Plaid and Autechre, then you had a thousand bandwagon jumpers all doing the glitch or drill'n'bass or Ae-style Max/MSP jams, but doing very little else that was new. Eventually it just became a caricature; a lame soapbox for socially maladjusted dorks to play wanky arrhythmical drum patterns over boring melodies.

village idiot (dog latin), Monday, 29 March 2010 13:13 (fourteen years ago) link

then again, like sonny j (emis attempt at launching upbeat sample based dance pop a few years ago that fell flat on its arse), you could just "recreate" the samples

― mark e, Monday, 22 March 2010 10:05

forgot all about them, what's the story here re: them recreating samples? who did they re-do?

NI, Monday, 29 March 2010 19:34 (fourteen years ago) link

Do you really want everyone to start singing and playing according to procedure, like some Simon Cowell shit?

That might work out, if the chord changes and arrangements are interesting enough (as in, lots of different chords and keys throughout the song, and a lot of interesting stereo effects and dynamic/mood changes)

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Monday, 29 March 2010 20:39 (fourteen years ago) link

key changes? how much of the stuff you listen to has fuckin key changes mid song?

can't think of anything (M@tt He1ges0n), Monday, 29 March 2010 20:43 (fourteen years ago) link

bear in mind that Geir does not actually know what chords or key changes are

Whats with all the littering? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 29 March 2010 20:48 (fourteen years ago) link

Haha. I get the feeling there's an epic set of rules about to drop

Ismael Klata, Monday, 29 March 2010 21:05 (fourteen years ago) link

for rules read deranged bullshit

mdskltr (blueski), Monday, 29 March 2010 21:39 (fourteen years ago) link

that bears little to no relation to the actual structural and formal qualities of music

Whats with all the littering? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 29 March 2010 21:45 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm fairly sure what happened here was that Geir had some music teacher back in the day who continuously outlined the reasons he considered pop to be inferior to classical music*, and Geir has since become obsessed with elevating pop by making it conform to "classical" formal standards, hence all this "it needs x number of chords and y number of key changes" nonsense.

*Of course most music teachers of this stripe consider the Beatles to be the exception to this particular rule, eg banging on about the string arrangements on Eleanor Rigby at nauseum.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 08:44 (fourteen years ago) link

forgot all about them, what's the story here re: them recreating samples? who did they re-do?

if you look through the credits there is a note re the sample recreation service that was used to put together various tracks.

think this is a fairly well used option these days to make things sound like a sample, but providing a more cost effective solution to get the desired results

mark e, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 08:55 (fourteen years ago) link

I thought the main reason people recreate samples is that it is less costly than actual sampling, since you only have to pay for the rights to the composition, not the recording?

Though I guess sometimes they do it because the original recording artist refuses to give the rights to sample the recording, but the rights to the composition are still available.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 09:15 (fourteen years ago) link

some music teacher back in the day who continuously outlined the reasons he considered pop to be inferior to classical music

cf. Roger Scruton analysing and dismissing "Losing My Religion" because it doesn't have any inverted triads, roffle roffle.

the big pink suede panda bear hurts (ledge), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 09:44 (fourteen years ago) link

Which is lamest:

Magic Eye Posters vs "Keep Calm And Carry On"

village idiot (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 11:48 (fourteen years ago) link

Don't remember the BNP co-opting Magic Eye posters so

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 12:02 (fourteen years ago) link

"Keep Calm And Carry On" = BNP????

village idiot (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 14:36 (fourteen years ago) link

Hopefully this shit /= a link hxxp://bnp.org.uk/tag/keep-calm-and-carry-on-poster

Allbran Burg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 31 March 2010 01:59 (fourteen years ago) link

would a gabba revival be even at all possible, like, ever?

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 9 April 2010 14:13 (fourteen years ago) link

i don't think i've ever met some1 who likes gabba

alpha zingdog (history mayne), Friday, 9 April 2010 14:14 (fourteen years ago) link

never went to holland circa 1995 then i suppose...

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 9 April 2010 14:18 (fourteen years ago) link

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uD6E-GWb_RM/RpTaD8MaC6I/AAAAAAAAAxk/CZ5A0ZK3OZE/s320/ABBA+gabba.jpg

really underrated IMO

Doctor Casino, Friday, 9 April 2010 14:18 (fourteen years ago) link

dubstep is basically trip hop tho isn't it?

Suggest Ban Permalink
― nakhchivan, Friday, March 19, 2010 5:41 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark

Jungle/DnB

X-101, Friday, 9 April 2010 14:30 (fourteen years ago) link

Hip-hop currently has both anyway. What is needed now is for the stuff performed by the singers to sound less like Aretha Franklin and more like The Beatles.

Suggest Ban Permalink
― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:40 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark

FACEPALM

X-101, Friday, 9 April 2010 14:35 (fourteen years ago) link

dubstep's now become such a diverse genre, going from the Caspa & Rusko school of jump-up in-yer-face bosh, to Joker's more hiphop-influenced purple sound, then some more IDM-influenced stuff which doesn't really incorporate much dub nor step but is still dubstep, and then yeah the more trip hoppy stuff.

i find it almost impossible to keep up, but that's because these days if it plays at 140bpm and has a modicum of bass, then it seems to fit under dubstep.

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 9 April 2010 14:37 (fourteen years ago) link

while geir's comment above is total nonsense, it did pop into my head while i was cycling last ngiht for some reason, and i started wondering what a psychedelic r'n'b music might sound like. not being an expert on modern r'n'b the closest thing i could think of was "The Love Below" or something by Erykah Badu, but it would be interesting to hear someone really pushing things out in the weird stakes or doing bizarre concept albums. Possibly was something done in the seventies by Parliament or Marvin or Stevie (secret life of plants?) and also Vahid's Rough Guide To Hippie Soul (which I enjoy greatly, still).

village idiot (dog latin), Friday, 9 April 2010 14:42 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah kinda nice it didnt go all wobble like dnb went all hoover

X-101, Friday, 9 April 2010 14:44 (fourteen years ago) link

if you look through the credits there is a note re the sample recreation service that was used to put together various tracks.

http://www.fretbase.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/23093.jpg

Hero Gringo (ecuador_with_a_c), Friday, 9 April 2010 16:06 (fourteen years ago) link

i don't think i've ever met some1 who likes gabba

I used to like it when I was 15.

Tuomas, Friday, 9 April 2010 21:42 (fourteen years ago) link

what a psychedelic r'n'b music might sound like. not being an expert on modern r'n'b the closest thing i could think of was "The Love Below" or something by Erykah Badu, but it would be interesting to hear someone really pushing things out in the weird stakes or doing bizarre concept albums.

There was a thread about this a while ago:

itt: kinda out there, maybe kinda experimental, maybe kinda pretentious modern r&b

My personal recommendation: The World Has Made Me the Man of My Dreams by Meshell Ndegeocello. It's a dope album, and "psychedelic rnb" would be a pretty good description for its content.

Tuomas, Friday, 9 April 2010 21:47 (fourteen years ago) link

i don't think i've ever met some1 who likes gabba

I used to like it when I was 15.

― Tuomas, Friday, 9 April 2010 22:42 (Yesterday) Bookmark

Josh Wink was a step up for you then ;)

X-101, Friday, 9 April 2010 23:20 (fourteen years ago) link

More shoegaze would be nice. Never got it's day (aside from MBV).

kelpolaris, Saturday, 10 April 2010 03:04 (fourteen years ago) link

two years pass...

Now that we're pretty well into the 90s revival, I'm working on a mixtape and I'm hunting for a few more 90s throwback tracks that sound like Nika (Zola Jesus) + Rory's Do You Wanna Be My Baby. Obviously I'm gonna use some Pictureplane, Elite Gymnastics, Korallreven, Keep Shelly in Athens, maybe a little jj or Onra. But I'm looking for something that sounds a little more lo-fi and homemade, like the feel of the Nika+Rory track above -- camped out in the bedroom trying to do Nellee Hooper's Soul II Soul productions. Maria Minerva is closing to what I'm getting at but she doesn't sound like she wants to be pop enough. Anyone found anything like this out there on myspace or bandcamp or whatever? Recommendations appreciated.

Dare, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 00:54 (twelve years ago) link

Not sure I know how to do embedding so here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW_cUJf2pOM

Dare, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 00:54 (twelve years ago) link

Are we? I'm ready for punk-sensibilities-meets-bittersweet-melodic song craft of the best 90s guitar rock/pop to rule again and that may be the only style I'm looking for so I'll take your word for it otherwise.

Evan, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 02:13 (twelve years ago) link

Has anyone done the 90s Lounge/Exotica thing yet?

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 28 August 2012 02:16 (twelve years ago) link

I mean I enjoy other genres but barely any of them are my thing as far as a 90s sound goes. I'm also not sure where I'm going with any of this besides just being compelled to comment after "90s revival" is mentioned anywhere.

Evan, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 02:16 (twelve years ago) link

wasn't that stuff so inherently retro that any revival of that be seen more as i dunno a '60s thing? (xpost)

some dude, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 02:18 (twelve years ago) link

That means we are running out of past!

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 28 August 2012 03:10 (twelve years ago) link

Can't tell if Evan is referring to stuff like "Everlong" or stuff like "Allison Road." The latter maybe has a more direct connection back to the 60s....

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 04:56 (twelve years ago) link

Ha, neither I'm talking about what's mostly indie stuff, early/mid nineties era. And the 60s comment seems to be referring to the Lounge mentioned.

Evan, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 05:33 (twelve years ago) link

This is the most straight up I-can-barely-tell-this-actually-isn't-from-the-90s thing I've heard in a long time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCC9thDM53o

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 05:39 (twelve years ago) link

His best Dave Grohl impression.

Evan, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 05:45 (twelve years ago) link

i'd been predicting a wayne's world revival for a long time but it so far hasn't really happened.
no boisterous renditions of bohemian rhapsody in cars, no alice cooper history lessons.

i was schrwong.

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 22:40 (twelve years ago) link

Epic pail.

Chewshabadoo, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 22:54 (twelve years ago) link

i dunno, that emporers thing sounds post-90s to me.. the production is a dead giveaway IMO.

as opposed to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeaT-v1T7kI

billstevejim, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 05:56 (twelve years ago) link

there's a lot of weirdness/subtlties/jokeyness/tongue-in-cheek/irony and straight-up creativity in actual 80s and 90's music that is completely missing from pretty much everything being labelled "80s revival" or "90s revival" .. this is the element from 80s/90s that i wish would return more than any other.

billstevejim, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:03 (twelve years ago) link

you should check out total slacker

the dilettante escape plan (electricsound), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:04 (twelve years ago) link

i've seen them live.. havent heard their recordings tho.

billstevejim, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:06 (twelve years ago) link

not bad imo

the dilettante escape plan (electricsound), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 06:07 (twelve years ago) link

The Emperors is not the Black Wizards

Remember you can talk to me any time, asshole (dog latin), Wednesday, 29 August 2012 08:47 (twelve years ago) link


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