Looks like they don't really care how many files you're sharing.
― Girolamo Savonarola, Monday, 21 July 2003 03:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Just Deanna (Dee the Lurker), Monday, 21 July 2003 04:21 (twenty years ago) link
― nickn (nickn), Monday, 21 July 2003 06:03 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 21 July 2003 06:17 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 21 July 2003 09:16 (twenty years ago) link
RIAA wins, music industry is saved!
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/51559.htm
― StanM, Friday, 5 October 2007 06:36 (sixteen years ago) link
Mickey got off easy, in retrospect.
― nickn, Friday, 5 October 2007 06:43 (sixteen years ago) link
He did make that movie, though.
― StanM, Friday, 5 October 2007 06:45 (sixteen years ago) link
Okay, whatever you may think of RIAA tactics before, this is crazy.
Now, in an unusual case in which an Arizona recipient of an RIAA letter has fought back in court rather than write a check to avoid hefty legal fees, the industry is taking its argument against music sharing one step further: In legal documents in its federal case against Jeffrey Howell, a Scottsdale, Ariz., man who kept a collection of about 2,000 music recordings on his personal computer, the industry maintains that it is illegal for someone who has legally purchased a CD to transfer that music into his computer. The industry's lawyer in the case, Ira Schwartz, argues in a brief filed earlier this month that the MP3 files Howell made on his computer from legally bought CDs are "unauthorized copies" of copyrighted recordings.* * * *Whether customers may copy their CDs onto their computers -- an act at the very heart of the digital revolution -- has a murky legal foundation, the RIAA argues.* * * *At the Thomas trial in Minnesota, Sony BMG's chief of litigation, Jennifer Pariser, testified that "when an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song." Copying a song you bought is "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy,' " she said.
The industry's lawyer in the case, Ira Schwartz, argues in a brief filed earlier this month that the MP3 files Howell made on his computer from legally bought CDs are "unauthorized copies" of copyrighted recordings.
* * * *
Whether customers may copy their CDs onto their computers -- an act at the very heart of the digital revolution -- has a murky legal foundation, the RIAA argues.
At the Thomas trial in Minnesota, Sony BMG's chief of litigation, Jennifer Pariser, testified that "when an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song." Copying a song you bought is "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy,' " she said.
Forget the legal arguments, which I suppose we can examine later. The RIAA's position -- not just in the abstract, but in an actually litigated pending case -- is that you violate copyright law when you burn a disc you personally bought, at full retail value, onto your own iPod. As a pure matter of business tactics, this seems crazy to me.
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 31 December 2007 20:26 (sixteen years ago) link
Ummmmm....fair use?
― The Reverend, Monday, 31 December 2007 20:30 (sixteen years ago) link
they've already backtracked on this.
― s1ocki, Monday, 31 December 2007 20:31 (sixteen years ago) link
They have? The WP article ran yesterday.
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 31 December 2007 20:33 (sixteen years ago) link
The Post got it wrong.
http://williampatry.blogspot.com/
― Martin Van Burne, Monday, 31 December 2007 21:14 (sixteen years ago) link
I haven't read the RIAA Br., but from that blog post, it appears you're right. What an egregious -- and easily avoidable -- error for the Post to make.
― Daniel, Esq., Monday, 31 December 2007 21:27 (sixteen years ago) link
2008: RIAA storms homes of people who copied Ripper '77 from vinyl to tape
― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 1 January 2008 14:42 (sixteen years ago) link
What an egregious -- and easily avoidable -- error for the Post to make.
LOL what DOES the washington post NOT fuck up?!?
― Eisbaer, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 01:23 (sixteen years ago) link
It'll be interesting to see if the disappearance of the music industry (if that event occurs) will be the advance wave of a fate to soon befall all media.
― moley, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 11:39 (sixteen years ago) link
It'll be interesting to see if how the disappearance of the music industry (if that event occurs) will be the advance wave of a fate to soon befall all media.
― J0hn D., Wednesday, 2 January 2008 15:06 (sixteen years ago) link
The weirdest thing - when I posted that sentence, I thought, 'That sentence is so terrible, I wonder if J0hn will correct it'. I recall the last time he corrected one of my sentences, back in about 2003. At the time, I thought he was an English teacher. Anyway, J0hn, thanks for trying, but it's still a terrible sentence so let me try to again.
Music industry pundits have gamely tried to imagine models which could, in some way, monetise the digital distribution of music. Nothing seems to have worked so far. For example, until recently, some commentators were suggesting we look to the porn industry as an example of how to do business on the net. However, now that even the porn industry is having its own problems due to the propagation of free content on various high traffic amateur porn sites, that argument is harder to make. Also down the tubes, apparently is the notion that most bands can monetise touring on the back of internet promotion. Touring income for all but the very big acts appears to be down in 2007, with no signs of bouncing back. My impression (I read hundreds of tour budgets a year as part of my day job) is that most bands lose money on touring, or earn less than they would had they worked a low-paid job for the duration of the tour.
Stetching further back, before Myspace, discussions revolved around direct artist sales from their own websites, and how to construct a site to maximise custom. Also, there was the 'music like water' idea, also before Myspace, where people would subscribe to a service providing unlimited downloads at, say, $20 per month. That idea is fraught with obstacles, relying as it does on cooperation and agreement on the part of the RIAA and other orgnaisations and record companies. Attempts to monetise Myspace through Snocap have also gone down the tubes. Looking at the Prince and Radiohead stunts, even if we grant that either were successful as a commercial venture, it is not apparent that less well known artists could follow the same path. And so on.
To take these lessons and get really pessimistic, we could say that it is impossible to monetise digital distribution of content. If this is the case, it is a potential threat to all content providers whose product can be digitised. That would include music, porn, the press and all publishing, film, video and photography, and TV. The consequences of all those businesses disappearing, along with the music industry, would be interesting. Here it all gets very speculative. It would seem that search engines and social netowrking sites become very powerful insofar as they harvest a great deal of information,w hich they could then sell. That may be where the real internet money lies in the future. Where does that leave the artist? Who knows at this stage.
― moley, Thursday, 3 January 2008 00:54 (sixteen years ago) link
Feel free to correct any grammar or spelling mistakes you may find in that post. I believe there's at least one.
― moley, Thursday, 3 January 2008 00:55 (sixteen years ago) link
There was an interesting thread recently -- on ILM, I think -- about creative options for the music industry in the digital age (the thread was eMusic -- C/D, perhaps; I'm out now, so it's harder to search for it). Anyway, there were some innovative ideas, e.g., a Stock Market Model, a Patronage Model. I have no idea, obv., if these would work, but they're certainly worth further consideration, and they're better, PR-wise, than the RIAA suing its potential customer base.
I know that discussion is one step prior to where you begin your analysis, Moley, but it's in the same vein and was v. interesting.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 3 January 2008 01:45 (sixteen years ago) link
Thanks Daniel - I think this is it:
EMusic - C/D
― moley, Thursday, 3 January 2008 01:54 (sixteen years ago) link
As for the majors, I doubt that they view patronage (or anything else involving good faith) as even a plan z but their relentless moustache-twirling is not only burning that bridge but irradiating and vacuuming the remains of the bridge; they're wearing out their stick before they've even planted the carrots. I wonder if a quasi-patronage model could work on a smaller scale, or if it is is already working on a smaller scale with say, 'indie' labels which have always had self-selecting fans and built-in good faith rhetoric working for it to some extent.
― tremendoid, Thursday, 3 January 2008 02:10 (sixteen years ago) link
they will become content feeders for corporate advertising. the madonna sponsorship thing is just the first, it'll be like stock car drivers soon. or else ditch the role of the artist entirely and go to music created by genetic generative algorithms. there is no way to monetize digital distribution of content without DRM in hardware (and even then)
― the galena free practitioner, Thursday, 3 January 2008 21:21 (sixteen years ago) link
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2336/2219282175_83aa0cddec_b.jpg
― Alba, Sunday, 27 January 2008 15:36 (sixteen years ago) link
A-
― The Reverend, Sunday, 27 January 2008 15:38 (sixteen years ago) link
For anyone who's really interested in these cases, Recording Industry vs. The People covers them pretty comprehensively.
― felicity, Sunday, 27 January 2008 16:35 (sixteen years ago) link
ARRR
― Alba, Thursday, 31 January 2008 15:06 (sixteen years ago) link
it's particularly ironic that they'd mention 'let it be' in there; if they're talking about the film, that's one of the only places to fucking get it! it's hardly eating into the beatles' sales since they won't put it on dvd legally.
― akm, Thursday, 31 January 2008 15:10 (sixteen years ago) link
shocked, I tells ya
http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/02/riaa-training-v.html
http://gizmodo.com/358648/leaked-riaa-training-video-find-pirates--find-crack+dealing-terrorist-murderers-too
― StanM, Thursday, 21 February 2008 10:13 (sixteen years ago) link
I'll have my CD with. Whatever you've got - drugs, a couple of guns... say, can you hook me up into your criminal network? What's that? I'm now a high ranking executive in the music industry? That's great! Let's party with what's left of our coke budget! Actually, you know what, just keep the CD, it's worthless anyway.
― moley, Thursday, 21 February 2008 11:18 (sixteen years ago) link
large-scale piracy of DVDs is just another black market commodity. it's not surprising that you'd get drugs and other stuff going through the same channels, and it's not surprising that hezbollah or whoever would be involved in those channels, that's how they make their money
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 21 February 2008 12:39 (sixteen years ago) link
now i'm imagining hezbollah recording an album full of international smash hits, netting them millions -- it would be like that movie about the internet murderer where every website hit injects more poison into his victim or whatever -- "please, america!! stop listening to this infectious music! every CD you buy endangers the lives of us all!" -- until the govt. realize they can stop this insane money mill by encouraging rampant piracy
― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 21 February 2008 12:51 (sixteen years ago) link
You're saying Nickelback should be deported, right? OTM.
― StanM, Thursday, 21 February 2008 12:53 (sixteen years ago) link
Any chance of the Israelis following a policy of targetted assassination of members of Nickelback?
― Tom D., Thursday, 21 February 2008 12:54 (sixteen years ago) link
the ironing
http://torrentfreak.com/riaa-keeps-settlement-money-080228/
― StanM, Friday, 29 February 2008 07:28 (sixteen years ago) link
ironing_4_u.jpeg
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 29 February 2008 07:35 (sixteen years ago) link
Potential turnabout.
― Rock Hardy, Sunday, 16 March 2008 16:41 (sixteen years ago) link
Their probable future strategy:
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/03/15/2243235.shtml
― StanM, Sunday, 16 March 2008 16:49 (sixteen years ago) link
Glad people are paying attention to this.
― felicity, Monday, 17 March 2008 19:46 (sixteen years ago) link
Shocked, I tells ya! (again)
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080326-riaa-andersen-attorney-should-only-get-10-of-requested-fee.html
― StanM, Thursday, 27 March 2008 08:35 (sixteen years ago) link
WOW
Holy Shit!
From Gizmodo:
The RIAA and MPAA have submitted a plan to the Office of Intellectual Property Enforcement. It's basically a plan that they want the government to enact, and it's terrifying.
Here are some of the lovely things that they're calling for:
* spyware on your computer that detects and deletes infringing materials; * mandatory censorware on all Internet connections to interdict transfers of infringing material; * border searches of personal media players, laptops and thumb-drives; * international bullying to force other countries to implement the same policies; * and free copyright enforcement provided by Fed cops and agencies (including the Department of Homeland Security!).
― he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:15 (thirteen years ago) link
Is this possible?
― Jacob Sanders, Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link
probably not
― fuckin' lame, bros (latebloomer), Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link
File sharers=Terrorist
― Jacob Sanders, Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, its not going to ever happen, but imagine the balls to even ask.
― he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:40 (thirteen years ago) link
exactly
― bug holocaust (sleeve), Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:47 (thirteen years ago) link
"* spyware on your computer that detects and deletes infringing materials;"
I can't even imagine how this would work. . . .
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:47 (thirteen years ago) link
love these fucking guys
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:48 (thirteen years ago) link
Imagine the lines at the Canadian border when the enforcers have to go through every iPod song-by-song to check for infringement.
― he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:50 (thirteen years ago) link
if you start your bargaining high enough you might get something passed that's not quite as bad but would have seen to be too extreme if you had asked for that in the first place. That's the reasoning behind it.
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:53 (thirteen years ago) link
* spyware on your computer that detects and deletes infringing materials
How would such spyware determine what mp3's/mpeg's a user has downloaded and what ones he's ripped himself for personal use? These organizations have really shit the bed this time.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Probably pretty simple, they have programs in commercial use even now that can detect a track and detect whether it is a commercial recording or not, and then take automated steps to get rid of it. If you have ever uploaded a video with a commercial song to youtube in the past few years, it gets taken down within minutes.
I'm sure all they would need to do is search for the itunes purchase tag or whatever kind of DRM is supported by the companies paying into the program, and it could work!
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:54 (thirteen years ago) link
But what about stuff that you burned yourself from CDs/LPs? Or would it just indescriminantly delete that?
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:56 (thirteen years ago) link
they want you to buy from itunes etc not rip your own cds. They want you to buy it twice.
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:58 (thirteen years ago) link
How would such spyware determine what mp3's/mpeg's a user has downloaded and what ones he's ripped himself for personal use?
This is the biggest problem, and perhaps the scariest. What if they took this method:
"Any authorized content needs to have this encrypted code embedded in the file. The RIAA and MPAA both mandated this code in all of their products, therefore, if your binary file does not have the code, it could potentially be an illegal file."
It would be one more step towards eliminating the freedom of production that the internet has democratically given to the entire world. The solution, of course, would be to dump the internet before it becomes something like cable TV, and go underground yet again. I bet there are plenty of hackers ready and willing to work on such a system.
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:59 (thirteen years ago) link
pfunkboy OTM. You bought the LP, you bought the cassette, you bought the CD, why the hell aren't you buying the MP3?
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:01 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm sure hackers would figure out a way to delete the spyware in the first place.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:02 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, I rip a lot of vinyl to my computer. Are they saying that any file not encoded with these RIAA codes are considered illegal?
― Jacob Sanders, Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:03 (thirteen years ago) link
Well, that's my paranoid dystopian conspiracy theory. I think ripping an LP is safe by today's standards.
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:04 (thirteen years ago) link
That sounds like what they are saying.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:04 (thirteen years ago) link
I mean I don't see how the spyware could work any other way.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:05 (thirteen years ago) link
I may be totally wrong ripping an LP. *google search*
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:07 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm pretty sure it's considered Fair Use.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:08 (thirteen years ago) link
Actually I'm wrong. The RIAA does NOT consider that Fair Use. But they also haven't taken anyone to court over it. I can't imagine they'd win.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:10 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm sure playing the Beach House album this afternoon with my front door open also violates Fair Use. Frreal, eff these guys.
― he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link
RIAA vs. Diamond has mostly settled that, I think?
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/is99/RioSpaceShifter.htm
xp
― carson dial, Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link
This is pretty telling:http://s3.amazonaws.com/infobeautiful/selling_out_550.png
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:18 (thirteen years ago) link
itunes/amazon artist rates are insane.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:24 (thirteen years ago) link
sorry, too small, the big image is here:http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2010/how-much-do-music-artists-earn-online/
Basically you need to sell over 1k albums a month in physical CDs or mp3s via iTunes, Napster, or amazon in order to make minimum wage. And if you get 4 million plays on Spotify then you still won't make minimum wage.
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:25 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/28/AR2007122800693.html
RIAA doesn't believe that case actually happened.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:25 (thirteen years ago) link
"Sony BMG's chief of litigation, Jennifer Pariser, testified that "when an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song." Copying a song you bought is "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy,' " she said." This is just crazy!!! Are they saying we only pay for the right to listen to the music we have bought, but our ownership of the music ends with our ears?
― Jacob Sanders, Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
Yes.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Yes, you can't even let your significant other listen to the album with you.
― he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:41 (thirteen years ago) link
next step of having to pay monthly fees to renew yr mp3s, can't wait.
― FC Tom Tomsk Club (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:47 (thirteen years ago) link
Now that all music can be converted to a practically non-physical object by even an 8-year-old kid, is there really anything pointing to a future for the RIAA beyond Orwellian info surveillance?
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:49 (thirteen years ago) link
The only rationale they can offer is that pirates are "hurting the artists" but please take a look at the above chart to see how well the legitimate industry treats those same artists.
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:50 (thirteen years ago) link
let's also be fined for whistling the tune we heard on the radio. a lot.
― thousands of masturbating weirdos (whatever), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:50 (thirteen years ago) link
Why stop there? How about paying royalties when you get an earworm?
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:51 (thirteen years ago) link
i already do. sadly for all concerned the royalty-paying is all in my head.
― thousands of masturbating weirdos (whatever), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:52 (thirteen years ago) link
Has there ever been a good, in-depth comparison of the RIAA since 2000 versus the film industry freaking out over videocassette in the early 80s? I'd be really curious to see a side-by-side to see what steps were taken that lead to wildly different results.
― he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:53 (thirteen years ago) link
RIAA is going to be non-existent within 20 years, is my prediction
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:54 (thirteen years ago) link
in-depth comparison of the RIAA since 2000 versus the film industry freaking out over videocassette in the early 80s?
these aren't even remotely comparable scenarios, sorry
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:55 (thirteen years ago) link
afaik, the riaa has always taken this position. they do so not because they intend to prosecute anyone for "committing the offense"(they've said they wouldn't prosecute someone for ripping an MP3 version of something they already own). they do so to avoid waiving other legal theories over which they would prosecute someone for "committing the offense."
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:56 (thirteen years ago) link
hydrapower
― thousands of masturbating weirdos (whatever), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:57 (thirteen years ago) link
is it just me or do these figures indicate that any musician wishing to make a living making music should just stop recording? there's no point in it. nobody thinks it's worth anything. if you want to increase the value of something, choke off supply. make a living via live performances and commercial/product placement recordings
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:58 (thirteen years ago) link
Um, I would say that two industries dealing with new technologies that have a dramatic impact on the distribution of their major products are somewhat similar.
― he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:58 (thirteen years ago) link
nah. the scale is completely different, and is the key thing.
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 21:59 (thirteen years ago) link
Well, yeah, the scale is a big difference. I'm not saying the two situations are exactly the same, but I still think it would make for an interesting study.
― he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:00 (thirteen years ago) link
well the film industry just took a page from the music industry and reacted by upping the product "quality" (ie, DVDs are better than VHS! "the quality is AMAZING!"). So as people replaced their tapes and records with CDs in the 90s, so people replaced their VHS copies with DVDs in the 00s. Except now DVD sales are tanking, and everyone's streaming/downloading TV and movies - and as filesharing of those media get easier, the film/TV industry will face the same problem the music industry has. I think the only real difference that they have to console them is their advertising revenues, which are deeply entwined with the media in a way that they never were with the music industry.
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:03 (thirteen years ago) link
eventually everyone in these industries is going to have to accept that turning all their property into ones and zeroes was probably the stupidest, most short-sighted policy imaginable.
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:04 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm not sure there was another option. LPs aren't a good long-term solution either.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:08 (thirteen years ago) link
CDs were a totally pointless product. I don't accept their "inevitability", especially given how shitty 80s CDs sound.
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:11 (thirteen years ago) link
how long term is long term? LPs will reportedly survive a century
― WTF cat with unfitting music (kingfish), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:11 (thirteen years ago) link
I think his point is that with the rise of the internet, demand for cultural content would have gotten everything converted to a digital format eventually. Of course, CDs helped to actually furiously accelerate this conversion process.
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:14 (thirteen years ago) link
so at best, even if there were no CDs, this would have just delayed the inevitable.
(said hypothetical delay might have worked in the industry's favor though, because it might have bought them time to develop and nurture alternative revenue streams)
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:15 (thirteen years ago) link
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, April 15, 2010 5:04 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark
the hell? more music is available more easily to enjoy in more different ways than ever. it's great! if it drives "the industry" into the ground, boo hoo
― goole, Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:22 (thirteen years ago) link
"CDs were a totally pointless product. I don't accept their "inevitability", especially given how shitty 80s CDs sound."
Man LP purist sure are focused on CD sound from three decades ago.
"I think his point is that with the rise of the internet, demand for cultural content would have gotten everything converted to a digital format eventually."
Yes, music was going to be packaged digitally and the size/convenience of that product was inevitably going to supercede early formats was my point. I was also thinking of the cost/eventual scarcity of petroleum for vinyl production as well.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:23 (thirteen years ago) link
Didn't realize how shitty iTunes rates were for the artist. Bought a local singer-songwriter's album today, I should have just pirated it and handed her a fiver at her next show.
― a cross between lily allen and fetal alcohol syndrome (milo z), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:23 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm not really complaining (altho there are a lot of side effects of these industries' collapse which are unfortunate). I meant it was a stupid, short-sighted policy FOR THEIR INDUSTRIES.
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:24 (thirteen years ago) link
if you want to increase the value of something, choke off supply. make a living via live performances and commercial/product placement recordings
fwiw Courtney Love (!!!!!) basically said this a few years ago.
― Astronaut Mike Dexter (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:24 (thirteen years ago) link
nah I think MP3s sound like shit too
and then she... made another album?
shut up Courtney
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:25 (thirteen years ago) link
"nah I think MP3s sound like shit too"
Man LP purists sure are focused on 128k mp3s from 10 years ago, etc.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:27 (thirteen years ago) link
the gist is that she makes her money through the gate @ live shows. The album is the catalyst for a tour
― Astronaut Mike Dexter (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:27 (thirteen years ago) link
That Courtney rant was basically just to get her label to renegotiate her deal. IIRC, Beck made similarly confrontational noises around that time, and then happily re-upped with his label.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:28 (thirteen years ago) link
lol
I hate some new stuff too fwiw
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:30 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm an equal opportunity hater
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:31 (thirteen years ago) link
why don't you increase the value of your posting
― Shall I have feelings, or should I pretend to be cool? (latebloomer), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:31 (thirteen years ago) link
nyuk nyuk
― Shall I have feelings, or should I pretend to be cool? (latebloomer), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:32 (thirteen years ago) link
http://sistasmiff.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/don_rickles.jpg
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 22:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Almost every CD I bought in the last 20 years is utterly unplayable, whether through scratches or CD-rot. Yet I can buy a record from the 1940s at a thrift store and expect to be able to listen to at least 90% of the music.
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 15 April 2010 23:14 (thirteen years ago) link
what the hell dude, you must not take very good care of your CDs. 98% of what I have from the early 90's still plays fine.
― bug holocaust (sleeve), Thursday, 15 April 2010 23:18 (thirteen years ago) link
Indeed, it would have resulted in a better profit for the artist than buying 55 copies on iTunes!
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 15 April 2010 23:18 (thirteen years ago) link
"Almost every CD I bought in the last 20 years is utterly unplayable, whether through scratches or CD-rot."
Hilarious.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 15 April 2010 23:21 (thirteen years ago) link
I have CDs going back to 1987 that are still playable!
― Obama, Wellstone and Darwinfish, Attorneys (Pancakes Hackman), Thursday, 15 April 2010 23:29 (thirteen years ago) link
My big fault was putting them all in big thick 100-count CD cases because they were getting too unmanageable. Then the original cases kept getting busted so I took out the inserts and tossed the damaged plastic cases. Then eventually some of my 100-count cases were stolen and I ended up keeping what i had left in used CDr spindles. I actually haven't listened to a store-bought CD in at least 5 years. So yeah that post is kinda BS.
― Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 15 April 2010 23:35 (thirteen years ago) link
i bought my first "nice" cd player last year (marantz one) and damn cds can sound fucking amazing actually...bought a bunch of jazz reissues and stuff like that, really gorgeous
― fischer-price my first chukkas (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 15 April 2010 23:40 (thirteen years ago) link
my 2 yo is royally fucking up what remains of my CD collection - doubt I'll hold onto them for more than a year or more.
vinyl she doesn't bother with (too unwieldy!)
― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 15 April 2010 23:42 (thirteen years ago) link
This is essentially where I'm at, philosophically. If I had direct contact info for artists whose work I admire, I'd gladly send them the purchase price of every work of theirs I steal. The RIAA and MPAA clearly have nothing but contempt for their customer base, so fuck them and fuck them hard.
― SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 15 April 2010 23:49 (thirteen years ago) link
i don't really get why an artist wouldn't make the same from an itunes download that they would from the sale of a cd single (divided by 4 or however many tracks)
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, 15 April 2010 23:57 (thirteen years ago) link
Because Apple has about as much contempt for artists as the RIAA has for us?
― SNEEZED GOING DOWN STEPS, PAIN WHEN PUTTING SOCKS ON (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 16 April 2010 00:03 (thirteen years ago) link
― mdskltr (blueski), Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
works like this:
old system:
sell a CDrecord store takes a littlerecord company takes a lotyou get a little
new system:
sell an MP3 on itunesApple takes a lotrecord company takes a lotyou get even less
apple takes a big cut
― fischer-price my first chukkas (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 16 April 2010 00:06 (thirteen years ago) link
well sure, but how has this been allowed etc.
― mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 16 April 2010 00:08 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah you'd think musicians would, like, rise up en masse to stop the labels from screwing them over
― all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Friday, 16 April 2010 00:08 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, if only there was a free way to distribute your music to the masses and an easy system to set up whereby anyone in the world could send you money with the click of a button ;-)
― Adam Bruneau, Friday, 16 April 2010 00:17 (thirteen years ago) link
musicians are really well known for being ultra organized and disciplined folk
― Shall I have feelings, or should I pretend to be cool? (latebloomer), Friday, 16 April 2010 00:18 (thirteen years ago) link
hahaha @ this
― I Love Milf (k3vin k.), Friday, 16 April 2010 00:30 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm learnding
― mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 16 April 2010 00:31 (thirteen years ago) link
An opportunity was missed by not calling this thread RIAArmageddon
― Mordy, Friday, 16 April 2010 00:33 (thirteen years ago) link
RIAPOLLmageddon
― it's all abt groups, like i was saying in the jerk thread a few days ago (sic), Friday, 16 April 2010 01:17 (thirteen years ago) link
the hell? more music is available more easily to enjoy in more different ways than ever. it's great! if it drives "the industry" into the ground, boo hoo― goole, Thursday, April 15, 2010 6:22 PM (3 hours ago)
― goole, Thursday, April 15, 2010 6:22 PM (3 hours ago)
That visual chart was pretty shocking, subscriptions/streaming is pretty much pointless at those rates. I thought at least the iTunes/Amazon mp3 rates would be a little better than physical CDs, since the overhead should be MUCH less? I wonder how Tunecore releases stack up vs. iTunes and CDBaby, as well as Amazon, Lala, Amie and eMusic as mp3 prices slowly go downward.
As some of you said above, at $1 or less per album - whether it's a label CD or mp3 download - it does feel more sound to just pirate it and PayPal a few bucks directly to the artist.
― Nhex, Friday, 16 April 2010 02:04 (thirteen years ago) link
vinyl purists talking shit about CDs is such a 2000s thing. you're all going to be embarrassed by this rhetoric in a few years. i say this as someone with a big vinyl collection.
i kind of sympathize with the record industry but the RIAA is seriously ridiculous--they're acting like fred phelps or something, just way off the charts.
buying on itunes is infamously horrible for artists--i thought everybody knew that.
it does feel more sound to just pirate it and PayPal a few bucks directly to the artist.
radiohead tried to do this, more or less, and everyone made fun of them!
― by another name (amateurist), Friday, 16 April 2010 02:29 (thirteen years ago) link
no, everyone sent them money iirc
― it's all abt groups, like i was saying in the jerk thread a few days ago (sic), Friday, 16 April 2010 02:34 (thirteen years ago) link
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/4/2010/04/e06e2928ad49f9e92485d18a2335d9cc/340x.gif
― by another name (amateurist), Friday, 16 April 2010 02:34 (thirteen years ago) link
this stuff is actually somewhat complex, and discussions of it tend not to reflect that complexity - for example, the cut Apple takes doesn't pay a guy named "Apple": it pays a bunch of people who run the iTunes store, etc. it's still a large cut, don't get me wrong, a triumph for Apple (since the labels used to keep most of that cut themselves; Apple gave the labels a "this is our cut, if you don't like it, you don't have to have your stuff on our store" deal at the outset, which if I remember was met by the labels with much kicking & screaming). but I think conversations around this tend toward this "the only person who deserves a dime for the music is THE ARTIST!" which is an attitude with which I strongly disagree; few artists are completely DIY, and many don't want to be. just on behalf of myself, I don't like it when somebody hands me money and says "I downloaded your stuff, I don't support [the labels, iTunes, the RIAA, whoever]" - I'd rather people bought the stuff through the existing channels; the label who releases the album deserves to get paid, they're the ones who put up the money for it in the first place, and worked to publicize it, etc (and, in many cases -- most, I think -- don't even end up breaking even after costs; some of this is because of a culture of foolish spending, for sure, but that's a little beside the point). artists enter into a contract with the people who distribute their music, and they do so with their eyes open; the agreement is, you take care of getting the stuff out there & keeping it available, and I'll benefit in a couple of ways: the exposure of availability in highly visible, well-maintained hubs (formerly, record stores; for the purposes of this discussion, the iTunes store); the small amount of money I'll get if the project recoups; and the continuation of a marketplace in which I as an artist can sell my goods. like, imagine if your job is, I don't know, cook. but suddenly, there's no restaurants. do you really want to run around cooking for whoever looks hungry and hoping they kick you down some money, maybe a lot if they really like your chow, after you've already put in the work? for sure, a new marketplace has emerged, and how it's going to work is what's messily forming at the moment. but download-from-wherever, maybe-pay-the-artist (nb I'm guessing it's actually one person in 5000 who actually follows through on this model; my own sample group = in ten years since this conversation became a thing, the four people who've handed me cash + the one who wrote to offer to send, whose money I asked he send to charity, since at the one-person-at-a-time level it's basically a symbolic gesture until & unless it becomes a generally-adopted model) (which isn't ever going to happen; when people can get stuff for free, most of them who do so feel less obligated to pay for it once they've gotten it, that's just kinda natural) doesn't strike me as a great deal for artists - maybe with a very, very optimistic view of human behavior it's rad, but for me, if I can get ten reliable cents from a guy who signed a contract saying "you get ten cents for every dollar I make" I'll take that over "you maybe get money if people feel like giving it to you" every time.
― aerosmith live at the mohegan sun (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, 16 April 2010 03:35 (thirteen years ago) link
OTOH, let's be clear - this:
download-from-wherever, maybe-pay-the-artist
is the future, most likely. the horse has left the barn. which is fine, really. there are plenty of ways to make a living making music. you have to work harder now, and if you want to spend time at home with your family, that's going to be much harder to do, so if you wanna put "artist" on your tax return, you're going to have to consider carefully how much of your life you're willing to trade for that; you won't be able to sit at home and collect money for recorded music unless you get loads of very-high-profile advertisement syncs (which is where much of the money in music is now, and even that seems to have crested). but really, this isn't a negative - or a positive - it's just the reality of the market, and I'm sure musicians will find a way to negotiate it; they may not enjoy that, but it's all right, the whole q has very little to do with the craft imo
― aerosmith live at the mohegan sun (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, 16 April 2010 03:43 (thirteen years ago) link
"you get ten cents for every dollar I make"
They are paying you tithing!
― Ponies are horse children (Abbott), Friday, 16 April 2010 04:50 (thirteen years ago) link
aerosmith live, yes if you are on a label that has put forth money to record, master, and print your albums, ok. They've taken the initial risk and deserve to take the initial benefit in the rare event there is any. But I think the true value of the new music production channels is that the label doesn't have to take that risk, and in fact, you don't need the label at all. Anyone can burn a CDr, anyone can design album artwork. The industry no longer has a monopoly on production.
Yes, promotion of your music is a tricky thing, but you can certainly build up a fanbase without placement in a high-profile advertisement, or paying a promotional agent thousands of dollars to send out CDs. It's called playing out, and it can be a pain in the ass. But if consider yourself a musician and don't put in the hours rehearsing, playing shows night after night, or touring, then you should realize it's more of a hobby.
I think most people would be shocked to find out just how little highly-promoted musicians take in. People that are on national TV, in magazines, etc. still often make very little in CD royalties.
― Adam Bruneau, Friday, 16 April 2010 05:58 (thirteen years ago) link
Yes, promotion of your music is a tricky thing, but you can certainly build up a fanbase without placement in a high-profile advertisement, or paying a promotional agent thousands of dollars to send out CDs
You can also build a rocket and shoot yourself into space, but it's an incredibly difficult thing to do without external help in the form of others with expertise/experience in rocket building and funding to buy the materials.
― don't you steal my Sunstein (HI DERE), Friday, 16 April 2010 12:05 (thirteen years ago) link
this isn't exactly rocket science, HI DERE
― Jesse James Woods (darraghmac), Friday, 16 April 2010 12:16 (thirteen years ago) link
haha
― don't you steal my Sunstein (HI DERE), Friday, 16 April 2010 12:53 (thirteen years ago) link
one of my brother's lecturers said that last week, in a lecture on trajectory in space. nobody got the joke until after. it's a terrible tragedy to be a funny man in the body of a nerdy scientist.
― Jesse James Woods (darraghmac), Friday, 16 April 2010 13:15 (thirteen years ago) link
The brightest response to the Napster/MP3 revolution was that of David Bowie, who in 1997 cashed out $55 million in so-called Bowie Bonds, early securitized IP backed by future royalty streams.
Courtney Love and others who noted that albums were a promotional medium for tours/merch in this millenium were late to the party.
― Sanpaku, Friday, 16 April 2010 17:01 (thirteen years ago) link
Brings the LOLzhttp://i.imgur.com/1pXlO.jpg
― Adam Bruneau, Friday, 16 April 2010 17:16 (thirteen years ago) link
lolololol
― Mordy, Friday, 16 April 2010 17:20 (thirteen years ago) link
hahahahahahaha
― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 16 April 2010 17:29 (thirteen years ago) link
High Court approves '3 strikes' deal between major record labels and Ireland's biggest ISP.
a few choice quotes:
The Data Protection Commissioner had expressed the view the Data Protection Act was an obstacle to implementation of the measures as these involved the release of “sensitive personal” information... Mr Justice Charleton ruled that IP addresses of suspected illegal downloaders in the possession of the record companies who intend to give them to Eircom are not “personal data” or sensitive personal data such as required the companies to comply with data protection issues.There was “a fundamental right” to copyright in Irish law existing since the time of Saint Colmcille who was often quoted for his aphorism: “to each cow its calf and to every book its copy”, he said.
There was “a fundamental right” to copyright in Irish law existing since the time of Saint Colmcille who was often quoted for his aphorism: “to each cow its calf and to every book its copy”, he said.
lol if you are going to quote apocryphal stories about sixth-century saints, get em straight: Colmcille was the one making the illegal copy (of an illustrated manuscript) and it was the King of Ireland who said the quote about the cow (except of course he didn't, as this never actually happened).
― p-dog, Friday, 16 April 2010 18:14 (thirteen years ago) link
this story is also the first thing they taught us on the Intellectual Property course in law school...
― p-dog, Friday, 16 April 2010 18:16 (thirteen years ago) link
we need to shut down these Intellectual Source Proprietors if they won't give names
― mdskltr (blueski), Friday, 16 April 2010 18:20 (thirteen years ago) link
― p-dog, Friday, 16 April 2010 18:26 (thirteen years ago) link
TCP/IP : The Copyright Pirates vs. Intellectual Property
― StanM, Friday, 16 April 2010 18:28 (thirteen years ago) link
on the floor laffing at that letter
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 16 April 2010 19:28 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm all for dynamic IP (intellectual property)
― by another name (amateurist), Saturday, 17 April 2010 02:22 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm all for IP Freely
― lesley gorguts (latebloomer), Saturday, 17 April 2010 03:37 (thirteen years ago) link
ACTA draft finally released to the public. This part is interesting:
Imminent infringementSeveral sections of the ACTA draft show that rightsholders can obtain an injunction just by showing that infringement is "imminent," even if it hasn't happened yet.http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/04/acta-is-here.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
Several sections of the ACTA draft show that rightsholders can obtain an injunction just by showing that infringement is "imminent," even if it hasn't happened yet.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/04/acta-is-here.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
― Adam Bruneau, Wednesday, 21 April 2010 16:07 (thirteen years ago) link
Thanks for that link, Adam, that was super interesting and useful.
― I Smell Xasthur Williams (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 21 April 2010 17:27 (thirteen years ago) link
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-20021735-93.html
― omar little, Thursday, 4 November 2010 21:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Jesus. o_0
― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 4 November 2010 21:55 (thirteen years ago) link
People these days do not remember the immense range of music available back in the 50's through the mid 80's.
11 people liked this comment
― on the cusp of eligibility (Ned Trifle II), Thursday, 4 November 2010 21:55 (thirteen years ago) link
Jammie Thomas-Rasset, the Minnesota woman who has been fighting the recording industry over 24 songs she illegally downloaded and shared online four years ago, has lost another round in court.
A jury in Minneapolis decided today that she was liable for $1.5 million in copyright infringement damages to Capitol Records, or $62,500 for each song she illegally shared in April 2006.
The Recording Industry Association of America--the trade group that represents the four major music labels--applauded the verdict.
"We are again thankful to the jury for its service in this matter and that they recognized the severity of the defendant's misconduct," the RIAA said in a statement. "Now with three jury decisions behind us along with a clear affirmation of Ms. Thomas-Rasset's willful liability, it is our hope that she finally accepts responsibility for her actions."
evil
― omar little, Thursday, 4 November 2010 21:56 (thirteen years ago) link
Sorry, but I have to out more of that comment up because it's a classic.
Sick of prefabricated formula kid bands? Tired of an endless succession of so-called artists whose only talent is to jump around a stage and shout bad poetry? Stop ripping off the music industry. People these days do not remember the immense range of music available back in the 50's through the mid 80's.
The reason why it was so huge - particularly in the mid to late 60's - is because the record companies made enough money that they were free to seek out talent and nurture that talent. No longer, folks...
― on the cusp of eligibility (Ned Trifle II), Thursday, 4 November 2010 21:58 (thirteen years ago) link
uh
― lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Thursday, 4 November 2010 21:58 (thirteen years ago) link
That is some severe rose-colored "back in my day" nonsense right there
jump around a stage and shout bad poetry
― omar little, Thursday, 4 November 2010 21:59 (thirteen years ago) link
wow, this ruling.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 4 November 2010 21:59 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm not even going to look for a jim morrison jpg
― Mannsplain Steamroller (goole), Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:00 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm not an IP lawyer, but i assume the mixtapes that some sites put online (e.g., DIS Magazine, RA Review) are technically illegal to download?
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:06 (thirteen years ago) link
i think i know the answer here, regrettably. that's why i stay away from even these items.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:07 (thirteen years ago) link
xpSadly BECAUSE OF ILLEGAL DOWNLOADING none of Jim Morrison's work is available anywhere.
― on the cusp of eligibility (Ned Trifle II), Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:08 (thirteen years ago) link
that's why i stay away from even these items.
!
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:14 (thirteen years ago) link
xxp for ethical reasons? Or because you fear that you will go to jail?
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:18 (thirteen years ago) link
Fuck, for that money she could probably find all the original artists and personally pay them to re-record every song in a professional studio.
― Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:18 (thirteen years ago) link
that would be pretty funny and amazing actually
― I love you girls but that music is for radical faeries (Matt P), Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:21 (thirteen years ago) link
The most expensive cd ever burnt.
Guns N Roses "Welcome to the Jungle"; "November Rain"Vanessa Williams "Save the Best for Last"Janet Jackson "Let’s What Awhile"Gloria Estefan "Here We Are"; "Coming Out of the Heart"; "Rhythm is Gonna Get You"Goo Goo Dolls "Iris"Journey "Faithfully"; "Don’t Stop Believing"Sara McLachlan "Possession"; "Building a Mystery"Aerosmith "Cryin’"Linkin Park "One Step Closer"Def Leppard "Pour Some Sugar on Me"Reba McEntire "One Honest Heart"Bryan Adams "Somebody"No Doubt "Bathwater"; "Hella Good"; "Different People"Sheryl Crow "Run Baby Run"Richard Marx "Now and Forever"Destiny’s Child "Bills, Bills, Bills"Green Day "Basket Case"
― on the cusp of eligibility (Ned Trifle II), Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:22 (thirteen years ago) link
poll "Which of these songs is most worth $62,500?"
― Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:23 (thirteen years ago) link
As much as I hate to ever agree with commenters on sites like this, one of them has a point - she would have gotten off much, much easier if she'd just shoplifted physical copies of all of these.
― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:24 (thirteen years ago) link
Destiny’s Child "Bills, Bills, Bills"
^ lol
― am0n, Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:28 (thirteen years ago) link
there's a visa/priceless joke in here somewhere but it would suck
― I love you girls but that music is for radical faeries (Matt P), Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:32 (thirteen years ago) link
what the hell do you even do with your life if you have a million dollar judgment hanging over you? i take it your checks are probably garnished, but how much? what's the process for this? jump of a bridge?
― Mannsplain Steamroller (goole), Thursday, 4 November 2010 22:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Has anyone ever been targeted for just downloading? As far as I know they've only gone after the UPloaders
― buildings with goats on the roof (James Morrison), Thursday, 4 November 2010 23:03 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, i think sharing is what's targeted. but the riaa hasn't admitted that just downloading is legal.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 4 November 2010 23:25 (thirteen years ago) link
bit of both (not jail, but substantial fines).
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 4 November 2010 23:27 (thirteen years ago) link
sharing is easy to track, i'm not sure how the riaa would be able to track downloaders unless they set up a sting.
― omar little, Thursday, 4 November 2010 23:27 (thirteen years ago) link
ever feel like you're being kind of a dick? ever wonder if you're kind of a dick all the time? ever feel like an riaa lawyer?
relax, bro, you're good.
― bros before mods (Kerm), Thursday, 4 November 2010 23:40 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm glad i'm not an riaa lawyer, but they have to be a pretty happy group tonight.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 4 November 2010 23:43 (thirteen years ago) link
After doing much research, I chuckle when I see the phrase "illegal downloads" now.
― That's not a "laugh track", it's an audience and you're in it. (MintIce), Friday, 5 November 2010 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link
Probably the most relevant comment there is
I can find almost everyone of those songs to listen to on youtube...
― Fetchboy, Saturday, 6 November 2010 01:13 (thirteen years ago) link
i feel badly for this woman, but the picture they posted of her on the linked article makes her seem so smarmy.
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 6 November 2010 01:15 (thirteen years ago) link
How did they find her? Did they track her intellectual property address?
― StanM, Saturday, 6 November 2010 02:15 (thirteen years ago) link
Guys I feel guilty about all the mp3s I've downloaded, I mean, I've been STEALING someone else's work.
I really should find out who invented the mp3 codec so i can paypal him some $$.
― Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 6 November 2010 03:00 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebv0t9MreQo&feature=related
― buzza, Saturday, 6 November 2010 03:15 (thirteen years ago) link
insanity.... meanwhile in Oakland a police office who shot and killed an unarmed, restrained INNOCENT man who was laying on his stomach was given 2 years for involuntary manslaughter and will probably walk after 6 months. glad our country has our priorities straight.
― i love you but i have chosen snarkness (Steve Shasta), Saturday, 6 November 2010 03:21 (thirteen years ago) link
She really does deserve to live in poverty forever. History's greatest monster, Jammie Thomas-Rasset. Why don't they just indenture her to the RIAA.
― Up the voltage. (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Saturday, 6 November 2010 08:35 (thirteen years ago) link
she can just declare bankruptcy. but then again she's an idiot.
― my sex drew back into itself tight and dry (abanana), Saturday, 6 November 2010 08:39 (thirteen years ago) link
wait maybe i'm wrong. i am not a lawyer.
― my sex drew back into itself tight and dry (abanana), Saturday, 6 November 2010 08:41 (thirteen years ago) link
Jammie Tuomas-Raggett
― buzza, Saturday, 6 November 2010 17:53 (thirteen years ago) link
http://i51.tinypic.com/2v7vsxg.jpg
― markers, Saturday, 6 November 2010 17:59 (thirteen years ago) link
Manhattan Federal Judge Kimba Wood Calls Record Companies' Request for $75 Trillion in Damages 'Absurd' in Lime Wire Copyright Case
Victor Li The American LawyerMarch 15, 2011
Does $75 trillion even exist? The thirteen record companies that are suing file-sharing company Lime Wire for copyright infringement certainly thought so. When they won a summary judgment ruling last May they demanded damages that could reach this mind-boggling amount, which is more than five times the national debt.
Manhattan federal district court judge Kimba Wood, however, saw things differently. She labeled the record companies' damages request "absurd" and contrary to copyright laws in a 14-page opinion.
The record companies, which had demanded damages ranging from $400 billion to $75 trillion, had argued that Section 504(c)(1) of the Copyright Act provided for damages for each instance of infringement where two or more parties were liable. For a popular site like Lime Wire, which had thousands of users and millions of downloads, Wood held that the damage award would be staggering under this interpretation. "If plaintiffs were able to pursue a statutory damage theory predicated on the number of direct infringers per work, defendants' damages could reach into the trillions," she wrote. "As defendants note, plaintiffs are suggesting an award that is 'more money than the entire music recording industry has made since Edison's invention of the phonograph in 1877.'"
While Wood conceded that the question of statutory interpretation was "an especially close question," she concluded that damages should be limited to one damage award per work.
"We were pleased that the judge followed both the law and the logic in reaching the conclusion that she did," said Lime Wire's attorney, Joseph Baio of Willkie Farr & Gallagher. "As the judge said in her opinion, when the copyright law was initiated, legislatures couldn't possibly conceive of what the world would become with the internet. As such, you couldn't use legislative history. Instead, the overarching issue is reasonableness in order to avoid absurd and possibly unconstitutional outcome." Baio, who is scheduled to represent Lime Wire when the damages trial begins on May 2, joked that the money that the record companies sought from his client would be better spent on paying for health care or wiping out the national debt.
Glenn Pomerantz of Munger, Tolles & Olson, who represented 13 record company plaintiffs, did not return requests for comment.
― sorry ozzy but your dope is in another castle (Edward III), Friday, 25 March 2011 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link
Oh joy:
The four largest record labels are unhappy with the way the courts have interpreted the Digital Millennium Copyright Act in recent years and may need to ask Congress for changes, according to Jennifer Pariser, the attorney who oversees litigation for the Recording Industry Association of America.The DMCA is just not providing the kind of protection against online piracy that Congress intended, Pariser said at a conference here on Thursday."I think Congress got it right, but I think the courts are getting it wrong," Pariser said during a panel discussion at the NY Entertainment & Technology Law Conference. "I think the courts are interpreting Congress' statute in a manner that is entirely too restrictive of content owners' rights and too open to (Internet) service providers."We might need to go to Congress at some point for a fix," Pariser added. "Not because the statute was badly drafted but because the interpretation has been so hamstrung by court decisions."
The DMCA is just not providing the kind of protection against online piracy that Congress intended, Pariser said at a conference here on Thursday.
"I think Congress got it right, but I think the courts are getting it wrong," Pariser said during a panel discussion at the NY Entertainment & Technology Law Conference. "I think the courts are interpreting Congress' statute in a manner that is entirely too restrictive of content owners' rights and too open to (Internet) service providers.
"We might need to go to Congress at some point for a fix," Pariser added. "Not because the statute was badly drafted but because the interpretation has been so hamstrung by court decisions."
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 15:38 (twelve years ago) link
LOL @ the continuing demise of the RIAA. For every person you sue there are thousands more stealing your shit that you will never catch and there is nothing you can do to put the genie back in the bottle.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 8 November 2011 18:01 (twelve years ago) link
You can't argue with FREE
― elan, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 19:05 (twelve years ago) link
Poor babies.
― skip, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 19:19 (twelve years ago) link
But when you steal music, you condemn the children of the RIAA to go to community colleges.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 20:48 (twelve years ago) link
As long as they take an economics class I don't care where they go.
― elan, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 21:32 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/news/international/30628/Anthraxs-Scott-Ian-wants-illegal-downloaders-banned-from-the-internet
― (Algerian Goalkeeper) Vs (Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker), Saturday, 12 November 2011 00:23 (twelve years ago) link
I want Scott Ian's facial hair banned from life.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 12 November 2011 00:24 (twelve years ago) link
not just 'banned from the internet' ?
― (Algerian Goalkeeper) Vs (Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker), Saturday, 12 November 2011 00:26 (twelve years ago) link
Before the internet, the only way to steal music was to walk into a music store and physically walk out with something, and you were stealing, and you knew it. You knew, unless you’re a fucking maniac, that there was a consequence. If you got caught, you were going to get in trouble.
Nobody tell him about cassette recorders.
― Ridin' Skyrims (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 12 November 2011 00:29 (twelve years ago) link
eh, I don't see anything wrong with the idea. they're trying it in France and I think some other countries.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/2011/10/07/french-government-disconnect-60-file-sharer/1
― the wheelie king (wk), Saturday, 12 November 2011 00:41 (twelve years ago) link
"So until there is a consequence, it’s going to happen more and more and more, and people are going to see less and less original and good content from the record industry and movie industry.”
oh reeeeeeeally now
― Rhythm-Al-Shipism (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Saturday, 12 November 2011 00:43 (twelve years ago) link
Keen to know what this "Scott Ian" bloke has done to keep up with market trends
― Autumn Almanac, Saturday, 12 November 2011 01:02 (twelve years ago) link
made shitty bandwagonjumping records for 20 years
― (Algerian Goalkeeper) Vs (Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker), Saturday, 12 November 2011 01:03 (twelve years ago) link
lol at anybody on ilx thinking they can say shit about scott ian, dude's a legend, show yr work or stfu imo
― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Saturday, 12 November 2011 01:26 (twelve years ago) link
He's a super nice dude.
― Rhythm-Al-Shipism (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Saturday, 12 November 2011 02:59 (twelve years ago) link
ALSO WHERE'S *YOUR* SUPER-GOATEE ILXORS. <3 Scott Ian for all time.
― Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 12 November 2011 03:19 (twelve years ago) link
people are going to see less and less original and good content from the record industry and movie industry
LOL
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 12 November 2011 17:03 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/15/american-isps-to-launch-massive-copyright-spying-scheme-on-july-12/
― Flat Of NAGLs (sleeve), Sunday, 25 March 2012 18:19 (twelve years ago) link
oh, how delightful
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 25 March 2012 18:28 (twelve years ago) link
*downloads furiously*
― dayo, Sunday, 25 March 2012 18:30 (twelve years ago) link
lol yeah, I guess I have a couple months to run my ratios into the dirt before I quit using private trackers altogether.
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 25 March 2012 18:32 (twelve years ago) link
"although publicly, none of the network operators have agreed to “terminate” a customer’s service."
interesting.
― piscesx, Sunday, 25 March 2012 19:16 (twelve years ago) link
So basically, if no injunction filed, no more downloading free shit from Mediafire, et al after July 1.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 25 March 2012 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
*July 12
would slsk downloads register here?
― Chris S, Sunday, 25 March 2012 20:13 (twelve years ago) link
really don't download a lot of officially released/in-print stuff, but am bummed that this probably means the end of all the cool bootleg-y/live blogs out there. including mine!
― tylerw, Sunday, 25 March 2012 20:30 (twelve years ago) link
They'll pry tyler's 82 tom verlaine solo gig bootleg mp3s from my cold dead hands
― konybrony (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 25 March 2012 20:49 (twelve years ago) link
amen to that!
― nerve_pylon, Sunday, 25 March 2012 20:51 (twelve years ago) link
was thinking i'd just start doing a "bootleg of the month" CDR-by-mail subscription club. they aren't opening everyone's mail yet, are they? they probably are.
― tylerw, Sunday, 25 March 2012 21:36 (twelve years ago) link
just sort of constantly amazes me how much power the RIAA and the MPAA really have
― stan this sick bunt (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 25 March 2012 21:39 (twelve years ago) link
yea look what they did to District 13
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Sunday, 25 March 2012 21:55 (twelve years ago) link
how can they know what is being downloaded? wont that break data protection acts? They brought in a new law doing away with data protection??
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Sunday, 25 March 2012 22:02 (twelve years ago) link
really think the music industry needs to go to a model where all musicians get paid a base salary by the label, and gives them bonuses based on incentives (ie sales benchmarks like a bonus for going platinum, etc), and quit focusing on who paid for which individual unit.
make all music available via some pay for service that doesn't charge by unit, but just a flat rate or something.
the old model just ain't gonna fly anymore.
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Sunday, 25 March 2012 22:04 (twelve years ago) link
you'll have to pry the old model out of their cold dead hands... which I am totally cool with.
― Flat Of NAGLs (sleeve), Sunday, 25 March 2012 22:14 (twelve years ago) link
yeah I don't realistically see it happening until some kind of impasse is reached, and well given how much leeway they're given to do whatever they want, don't think that's anywhere near.
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Sunday, 25 March 2012 22:16 (twelve years ago) link
arranging chairs on the titanic
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 26 March 2012 02:10 (twelve years ago) link
RIAAgnarok
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Monday, 26 March 2012 02:45 (twelve years ago) link
All of this might just bring back the era of paying for bootlegs...
― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Monday, 26 March 2012 02:46 (twelve years ago) link
or the days of driving by the library to torrent shit
― Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Monday, 26 March 2012 03:01 (twelve years ago) link
If this keeps on we'll end up in a terrifying world in which every piece of content is made available simultaneously worldwide at a reasonable price
― TURPS-DEFCON1.jpg (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 26 March 2012 03:12 (twelve years ago) link
No, I'm fairly certain that this will be the measure which finally prompts the populace of earth to view their wanton disregard for intellectual property rights with shame and disgust, vowing forevermore to keep their noses clean and suckle contentedly at the teats of their corporate masters. It'll be like when we won the War on Drugs back in the '80s.
― One of my faverit moive ever!!!! XD (Deric W. Haircare), Monday, 26 March 2012 03:13 (twelve years ago) link
restrict access to only certain major websites like Google, Facebook or a list of the top 200 sites going
The future of the internet: TV.
― benernienie taumaupin (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Monday, 26 March 2012 03:21 (twelve years ago) link
Agreed, when the people stop worrying about the rights of artists and start weeping for the lost sales of conglomerates we'll be in a better place xp
― TURPS-DEFCON1.jpg (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 26 March 2012 03:22 (twelve years ago) link
in the future there will be no recorded music. bands will play their music live into a microphone on demand.
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Monday, 26 March 2012 03:22 (twelve years ago) link
in that case, RIP loudness war
― skip, Monday, 26 March 2012 04:00 (twelve years ago) link
as much as I was hoping this would be fake I suppose it does succeed in 1) pissing off customers and 2) generating virtually no revenue, so it at least seems like a legitimate RIAA idea
― Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Monday, 26 March 2012 11:22 (twelve years ago) link
Even if they shut down the whole internet for good, most people already have more music than they could possibly listen to in several lifetimes.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 26 March 2012 14:51 (twelve years ago) link
lol frogbs
― The Reverend, Monday, 26 March 2012 15:38 (twelve years ago) link
july 12th is my birthday!
― iatee, Monday, 26 March 2012 15:39 (twelve years ago) link
They can require that an alleged repeat offender undergo an educational course before their service is restored. They can utilize multiple warnings, restrict access to only certain major websites like Google, Facebook or a list of the top 200 sites going, reduce someone’s bandwidth to practically nothing and even share information on repeat offenders with competing ISPs, effectively creating a sort of Internet blacklist — although publicly, none of the network operators have agreed to “terminate” a customer’s service.
This is so goddamn stupid, people pay for internet service and are likely going to drop their ISP the instant they pull any of this shit, and whichever ISP decides to actually not spy on their customers is going to be the go-to company for anyone who's even a little internet savvy. Throughout their entire existance "give the customers what they want" has never been an option for the RIAA so this is not surprising in the least.
― Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:05 (twelve years ago) link
It says so much about the fucked wiring in their heads that they always opt for taking punitive measures towards (potential) customers over restructuring their business model in response to changing trends. Western Union didn't send thugs around to shoot people's dogs if they deigned to use a telephone, iirc.
― One of my faverit moive ever!!!! XD (Deric W. Haircare), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:20 (twelve years ago) link
unfortunately most people in America don't have real choices when it comes to ISPs. For broadband internet I can choose between Verizon, Comcast and RCN. The first two have agreed to sign up for this program, not sure about RCN (which I use). I can't just drop RCN because they decided to send me copyright nastygrams because the alternatives aren't any better.
― skip, Monday, 26 March 2012 16:21 (twelve years ago) link
I'm kind of in the same boat, but I assume for people in bigger cities there's more of a choice?
I would guess that one major ISP would opt out of this? Honestly if the RIAA's learned anything (obviously they haven't) it's that measures like this NEVER produce the intended result; look at all the fallout from copy-protection. I'd assume if one ISP just publicly came out and said "we'll keep everything private", they'd get a ton of business post-July?
― Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Monday, 26 March 2012 16:26 (twelve years ago) link
There's a case like this going on in Australia, in which AFACT (a shady group funded by Hollywood) is suing an ISP for 'authorising' copyright infringement. AFACT lost the case and the appeal, and now they're thrashing out a further high court appeal. You know, instead of selling their stuff.
― TURPS-DEFCON1.jpg (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 26 March 2012 20:34 (twelve years ago) link
My property management company only allows Comcast in their buildings, not only for cable and internet, but for land line telephone, too, for Christ's sake.
Someone told me this is illegal, but idk. Whether it is illegal or not, it's fucked up.
― free societies must let drunken gay Texans have sex (Je55e), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 03:32 (twelve years ago) link
Wouldn't encrypted browsing/file sharing get around this? I'm kinda dumb about this stuff, but you know... TOR or something?
― benernienie taumaupin (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 08:47 (twelve years ago) link
or a VPN
― 80,000 no name records (los blue jeans), Tuesday, 27 March 2012 23:36 (twelve years ago) link
or SoulSeek?
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 00:25 (twelve years ago) link
i'm told that an offsite seedbox is the answer.
― nerve_pylon, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 01:31 (twelve years ago) link
if ISPs are trying to control certain protocols, they are going to lose that battle -- people will just mask them as "acceptable" protocols like http and gaming servers.
― the acquisition and practice of music is unfavourable to the health of (abanana), Friday, 30 March 2012 18:04 (eleven years ago) link
i don't you guys, i don't think these measures are intended to stop the internet savvy types that already have work-arounds in place, they're going after the millions of Americans who either don't know how, or won't bother, to do these things and just give up when googling "Taylor Swift megaupload" doesn't work any more.
― stan this sick bunt (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 30 March 2012 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
Wow, this came out of nowhere. Metal Archives, also known as Encyclopedia Metallum, was shut down. I'm not sure what happened because, afaik, it was just a resource similar to wiki that listed metal bands and had album lists and reviews. Unless there was something going down in the forums, I never spent any time there. This is weird.
http://www.metal-archives.com/banner2ha.jpg
― stan this sick bunt (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 1 April 2012 14:15 (eleven years ago) link
Nevermind me, I just realized the date today.
― stan this sick bunt (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Sunday, 1 April 2012 14:18 (eleven years ago) link
i was about to say...
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Sunday, 1 April 2012 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
there's a spot where you can click through on that page.
― beachville, Sunday, 1 April 2012 15:01 (eleven years ago) link
http://torrentfreak.com/kim-dotcom-the-us-government-is-wrong-heres-why-120326/
― TALiB KWELi SODMG (The Reverend), Sunday, 1 April 2012 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
CaptainCrawl went down today:
Dear music blogosphere,
due to legal reasons and intense server costs CaptainCrawl has to go offline - forever.And - sadly - this is not an April the 1st joke.
In the past 4 years CaptainCrawl has been one of the most visited sites in the musicblogosphere, with more than 4,500,000 (searchable and tagged) music blogs posts,16,000,000 unique visits and some 10,000s of high quality one-click audio previews(tracks, mixes, talks). From April 1st 2012, this site will be offline.
The possibility to perform full text searches within the entire music blogosphere was always a problem for labels & lawyers. CC got serious complaints from major labels and major artists, so CC has to react on that. And we are talking about big names here. Like Coldplay.
― President Keyes, Sunday, 1 April 2012 20:03 (eleven years ago) link
Pretty good article about getting a copyright claim for video of a presidential speech. Gives some insight into how Youtube & Google use manipulation and how one-sided the whole thing is.
http://jotman.blogspot.com/2012/03/youtube-helped-ioda-steal-my-video-of.html
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 1 April 2012 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
anymore updates on this coming armageddon? How many of you have, er, complied?
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 21 April 2012 12:50 (eleven years ago) link
Am I totally paranoid for thinking that this sounds shady, particularly given the July deadline? It just seems like an awfully easy way to open your computer up to scanning/monitoring by the FBI.
― Potty Problems (Deric W. Haircare), Saturday, 21 April 2012 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
How many of you have, er, complied?
well my experience has been that you can't find anything at all online anymore, no mediafire, no nothin'. so I guess I am "complying" but somewhat involuntarily. I'm sure there's some private trackers that still torrent, but I'm not motivated enough for that. End of an era, etc.
― Flat Of NAGLs (sleeve), Saturday, 21 April 2012 18:51 (eleven years ago) link
Film scores are still obtainable on private blogs. That fandom is hyper-dedicated (reupping 100s of MU links to MF, etc). Everything else, yeah, pretty gone.
― aluminum rivets must not be proud of their plastic bosses (Jon Lewis), Saturday, 21 April 2012 19:14 (eleven years ago) link
Mediafire links on blog and such are still active but, yes, I've noticed the gradual extinction.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 21 April 2012 19:20 (eleven years ago) link
I got two notices on my mediafire account. One is for a track which uses samples from Lou Reed's "New York Telephone Conversation" alongside telephone sounds in a sort of music concrete sound collage. The other is a rip I made of Zacherle's "Monster Mash" LP. I've even gotten some notices on mediafire & youtube about song covers. My solution is that I'm going to just have to go through and permanently delete all covers. Let's hear it for the RIAA for protecting musicians. RIP the folk tradition.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 21 April 2012 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
the /rs/ board at 4ch@n is still pretty useful
― improvised explosive advice (WmC), Saturday, 21 April 2012 20:01 (eleven years ago) link
huh that's wild re: samples from Lou Reed's "New York Telephone Conversation" ... wonder how long it is til i get notices about the various bootleggy type things i post on mediafire.
― tylerw, Saturday, 21 April 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
would be great if because of the whole RIAA thing, some artists who really don't care about live recordings circulating would give the go-ahead to archive.org or somesuch.
― tylerw, Saturday, 21 April 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
I had a remix of a Nicki Minaj track I did taken down by soundcloud. I put it up on mediafire and haven't had any problem, although that may be due to retitling it.
― hologram ned raggett (The Reverend), Saturday, 21 April 2012 21:27 (eleven years ago) link
Some publicists send out tons of stuff very much meant to be freely shared, downloaded, embedded etc. etc.--will our new Overlords grok this?
― dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
I was pretty excited to hear Vladimir Nabokov reading "Lolita" on Doom & Gloom From the Tomb today but apparently the RIAA got to the file first. :-(
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 23 April 2012 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
whoooa, crazy. how does that work, someone reported it? an out of print LP of vladimir nabokov? wacky. well, here it is (mp3s still work): http://www.dinosaurgardens.com/archives/245
― tylerw, Monday, 23 April 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks! <3<3<3
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 23 April 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
that's the first time that's ever happened on my blog. scary.
― tylerw, Monday, 23 April 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
My favorite blog ever, btw. It'll be a sad day if it ever goes down.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 23 April 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
i got this email about a youtube video of a Prince tribute band. Your video "Purple Veins - I Wanna Be Your Lover @ High Noon Saloon", may have content that is owned or licensed by UMPG Publishing, but it’s still available on YouTube! In some cases, it may be blocked, or ads may appear next to it.
This claim is not penalizing your account status. Visit your Copyright Notices page for more details on the policy applied to your video.
honestly i have no idea what this means.
― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Monday, 23 April 2012 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
oh, i guess this is what it means:
Your video is blocked in these locations:United States
Eventually the RIAA is going to start taking down blogs that go into too much detail when describing music with the written word.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 23 April 2012 17:14 (eleven years ago) link
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, April 23, 2012 1:14 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
guess that means [insert blog name here] doesn't have to worry, am i right guys??!!!? hahahahahaha, ZING! #zing
― caulk the wagon and float it, Monday, 23 April 2012 17:21 (eleven years ago) link
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 23 April 2012 17:21 (eleven years ago) link
my only fear is that there's nothing the RIAA could do to marginalize itself enough to stop doing these things
― Mordy, Monday, 23 April 2012 17:26 (eleven years ago) link
I keep trying to think of an analogy for another industry being so ridiculous about going after people who use their content and the only real one I can think of is like book publishers suddenly deciding to shut down book review blogs that reproduce (credited) quotes fromt he book itself.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 23 April 2012 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
huh well i guess that is it for doom & gloom and mediafire. all links are gone. :(
― tylerw, Monday, 23 April 2012 17:35 (eleven years ago) link
:(
I'm so sorry tyler, that really sucks.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 23 April 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
eh easy come easy go. who wants to start up a snail mail CDR bootleg club!?
― tylerw, Monday, 23 April 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
Omigod. Fuck dude, pls know how many people appreciated the living hell out of what you did.
And I'm totally onboard for the snail mail thing!
― aluminum rivets must not be proud of their plastic bosses (Jon Lewis), Monday, 23 April 2012 18:54 (eleven years ago) link
Seconded.
― Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 23 April 2012 18:55 (eleven years ago) link
I can draw some illos for it and help with liner notes. The ppl united cannot b defeated.
― aluminum rivets must not be proud of their plastic bosses (Jon Lewis), Monday, 23 April 2012 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
damn, tylerw. your blog was so good man. rip blogs.
― fruitsbs (beachville), Monday, 23 April 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
i would 100% be in for snail mail thing, but i'm afraid i don't have much worthy of sharing
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:00 (eleven years ago) link
rip blogs indeed! thx for the kind words. fun while it lasted -- thought that it might be able to fly under the radar since most everything there is stuff you can't buy anywhere. but that's not how this stuff works, is it? it'd be kinda fun to do some sort of bootleg club, don't know how it would work though!
― tylerw, Monday, 23 April 2012 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
fuck :(
RIP...tyler i really really loved your blog, so much awesome music over the past couple years, you really did a great job with it.
― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
thanks, man. wonder if sites like dime a dozen will be shuttered too? is that a different thing?
― tylerw, Monday, 23 April 2012 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
the thing is, the people who use & enjoy music sharing blogs collectively have more money, and therefore theoretically more power, than the labels who fund the RIAA. if people were pretty intense about putting their money where their mouth is on this stuff it'd be a wildly diff. game imo
― same old song and placenta (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
also regretting not downloading every damn thing on Doom & Gloom that i meant to "get around to" :(
― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
well let me know if you need anything in particular!
― tylerw, Monday, 23 April 2012 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
yeah will do.
such a shame tho.
glad i got that fahey thing the other day.
― l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
RIP Doom & Gloom, you posted some great stuff Tyler!
― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 23 April 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
thanks. and re-stating what I said above, it'd be great if the killing off of music blogs like mine got some artists to consider signing off on archive.org (like certain people we know). i know that a lot of bands/performers really don't care about live shows and so forth trading hands amongst fans.
― tylerw, Monday, 23 April 2012 20:03 (eleven years ago) link
& anyway, I'll keep the blog going, just won't be uploading stuff for the time being. maybe there'll be some kind of new angle we haven't thought of yet?
― tylerw, Monday, 23 April 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
Sorry to hear about the mediafire takedown, tylerw. I've always felt that blogs like yours and Mutant Sounds were almost like a public service, preserving music that otherwise would be lost.
I guess there's no more Feelies, Television, or Neil Young bootlegs for me... sigh...
― Ashes, Pits of Ashes (leavethecapital), Monday, 23 April 2012 23:01 (eleven years ago) link
holy shit tyler, guess i'd better check my Shards Of Beauty links.
― Flat Of NAGLs (sleeve), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 05:42 (eleven years ago) link
OK, still there - but for how long???
― Flat Of NAGLs (sleeve), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 05:44 (eleven years ago) link
http://torrentfreak.com/music-pirates-will-be-unmasked-despite-bands-protests-120520/
― it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Monday, 21 May 2012 16:31 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.metalsucks.net/2012/05/21/80-illegal-downloaders-of-all-shall-perish-music-will-be-outed-and-sued-without-bands-permission/
everyones replies seem to be "fucking florida"
just heard about this for the first time yesterday
http://www.tonedeaf.com.au/news/featured/66754/riaa-sues-limewire-for-75-trillion.htm
― caulk the wagon and float it, Monday, 21 May 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
“As defendants note, plaintiffs are suggesting an award that is ‘more money than the entire music recording industry has made since Edison’s invention of the phonograph in 1877.’”
― Mordy, Monday, 21 May 2012 18:04 (eleven years ago) link
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 21 May 2012 18:05 (eleven years ago) link
TRILLION
― The Reverend, Monday, 21 May 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
Mr Burns could pay it
― it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Monday, 21 May 2012 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
we're all getting sued aren't we
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 21 May 2012 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
never used limewire nor have i ever met anyone who has
― it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Monday, 21 May 2012 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
lol srsly, that's the funniest part. fucking limewire.
― Mordy, Monday, 21 May 2012 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
I'm countersuing the RIAA for $75-kajillion.
― Quiet Desperation, LLC (Deric W. Haircare), Monday, 21 May 2012 18:15 (eleven years ago) link
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/files/2010/11/dr-evil.jpg
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 21 May 2012 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
based on the number of downloads that the many users of Limewire could theortetically have made
also lol
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 21 May 2012 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
btw there's a separate thread now for the copyright troll firmsCopyright trolls to sue bands fans for illegal downloading.
― it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Monday, 21 May 2012 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
"The Supreme Court on Monday let stand a $675,000 file-sharing damages award that a jury levied against a college student for making 30 music tracks available on a peer-to-peer network."
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/supreme-court-file-sharing/
― geeta, Monday, 21 May 2012 18:46 (eleven years ago) link
I'm just waiting for the day when RIAA gains access to all of the world's hard drives and the onus somehow ends up on all of us to prove that every audio file on our computer was legally purchased.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 21 May 2012 21:39 (eleven years ago) link
yeah man i think my days of downloading are over. which sucks because i really dig collecting bootlegs and out of print stuff.
but at least there is spotify now.
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 21 May 2012 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
no bootlegs on spotify though :'(just too bad -- i mean, i know for a fact that there are bands who i've posted live tapes by who are fans of my blog! can't the riaa just leave us alone, mannnnn.
― tylerw, Monday, 21 May 2012 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
I just go to the library and burn CDs now.
― how's life, Monday, 21 May 2012 22:56 (eleven years ago) link
I wish my library carried more CDs! The classical section is decent, but hasn't been added to at all in the five years I've lived here. The non-classical CDs are laughable at best with the weirdest collection of stuff that basically looks like it was donated after every used CD store in the region rejected them.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 21 May 2012 22:59 (eleven years ago) link
My library system has a transfer system, where you can go on their online catalog and request for materials from other branches to be transferred to your branch.
― how's life, Monday, 21 May 2012 23:03 (eleven years ago) link
Which is to say, have you looked into that possibility?
Ours has that too, but, last time I checked, you actually had to pay a minimal fee to transfer media (movies and music) from another library system. Ours actually only has two branches (the non-main one is tiny and carries only books and magazines), so you have to have it shared from another system. Usually not worth the time/wait/hassle.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 21 May 2012 23:05 (eleven years ago) link
Shit, we talked about this on the suburbs thread, didn't we? Or similar. Wait, it was beach access or something. Where do you live anyway? I always presumed Chicago by your name.
― how's life, Monday, 21 May 2012 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
My friend calls the library Swedish iTunes, for some reason. Maybe based on how long it takes him to request, say, a Louis Armstrong boxed set, get it home, then copy the whole thing to his computer.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 May 2012 23:15 (eleven years ago) link
lol. my scottish grandfather always used to complain about those "goddamned lazy swedes".
― how's life, Monday, 21 May 2012 23:17 (eleven years ago) link
Just north of Chicago in Evanston actually. I need to look into how I can tap into the Chicago system.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 21 May 2012 23:43 (eleven years ago) link
Think this news item fits here pretty nicely:
Metallica keep touring due to royalty cuts
― Kevin John Bozelka, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 17:40 (eleven years ago) link
my heart bleeds for millionaire rockers leading millionaire lifestyles
― it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 17:48 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I mean...it pretty much sounds like he's saying they're "forced" to tour now because the days when they could piss away millions of dollars between albums are over. Let me switch on my violin-playing nanomachine for ya, brohams.
― Quiet Desperation, LLC (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i mean if releasing THE BIGGEST SELLING ALBUM OF THE SOUNDSCAN ERA doesn't pay your bills then i don't know what
― some dude, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
Did Lulu really sell that much?
― tylerw, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
No, it was S&M.
― how's life, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:08 (eleven years ago) link
isn't this story like a year old?
― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:13 (eleven years ago) link
maybe its a constant bane on these rich rockstars lives
― it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
can you believe this shit, having to play to sold out stadium audiences every goddamn summer like some kind of pathetic animal
― some dude, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
LimeWire's the only P2P I've ever used, tbh.
― Never translate Dutch (jaymc), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:24 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/29/google_copyright_takedown_requests/
Google now gets 250k copyright takedown requests EACH WEEKMore than all requests made during all of 2009
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:29 (eleven years ago) link
Von Lohmann said that Google tries to make the notice and takedown process as quick and efficient as possible and had last week been able to process requests on average within 11 hours. However, he said the company also attempts to "catch erroneous or abusive removal requests".
"We recently rejected two requests from an organization representing a major entertainment company, asking us to remove a search result that linked to a major newspaper’s review of a TV show," he said. "The requests mistakenly claimed copyright violations of the show, even though there was no infringing content."
"We’ve also seen baseless copyright removal requests being used for anticompetitive purposes, or to remove content unfavorable to a particular person or company from our search results. We try to catch these ourselves, but we also notify webmasters in our Webmaster Tools when pages on their website have been targeted by a copyright removal request, so that they can submit a counter-notice if they believe the removal request was inaccurate."
slow clap
this could be embarrassing for some people hahahhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18281187
― it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 31 May 2012 15:35 (eleven years ago) link
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/05/riaa-wants-to-issue-unlimited-takedowns-to-google/
― Milton Parker, Thursday, 31 May 2012 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
& this is more about software than music, but a good indicator of the real game that's being played. RIAA wish they were playing chess at this level.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/05/microsoft-requests-takedowns-from-google-but-content-remains-on-bing/
Here you’ll find requests from companies that have asked Google to take down URLs for copyright infringement. Who’s the most prolific takedown requester? It’s Microsoft, which has requested that more than 2.5 million URLs be removed. But here’s the kicker: Microsoft has asked Google to remove URLs from its search results, while leaving some of those very same URLs active on its own search engine, Bing.
― Milton Parker, Thursday, 31 May 2012 16:03 (eleven years ago) link
haha, wow.
― tylerw, Thursday, 31 May 2012 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
hahaha
― it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 31 May 2012 16:17 (eleven years ago) link
"Bing, the filesharing-friendly search engine, pwning GOOG since 2012"
― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 31 May 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
Ben Dover Productions says the pornographic industry has been "decimated" by piracy
Tragic.
― seven league bootie (James Morrison), Friday, 1 June 2012 02:34 (eleven years ago) link
pouring one out in honor of Peter North ;_;
― Chris S, Friday, 1 June 2012 02:41 (eleven years ago) link
"pouring"
― The Reverend, Friday, 1 June 2012 03:12 (eleven years ago) link
I am not touching fkin Bing even for free stuff.
― but he go's to a resturang and then die in a toilet (Jon Lewis), Friday, 1 June 2012 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
just caught that metallica quote and holy shit sure hope they don't end up as wal-mart greeters someday
― da croupier, Friday, 1 June 2012 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
xp lol otm
― The Reverend, Friday, 1 June 2012 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
David Lowery responds to NPR intern who downloaded lots of stuff.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 00:29 (eleven years ago) link
Stephen Street in the comments!
I agree with his overall message, if not all of his points.
Like this part best:
"I also find this all this sort of sad. Many in your generation are willing to pay a little extra to buy “fair trade” coffee that insures the workers that harvested the coffee were paid fairly. Many in your generation will pay a little more to buy clothing and shoes from manufacturers that certify they don’t use sweatshops. Many in your generation pressured Apple to examine working conditions at Foxconn in China. Your generation is largely responsible for the recent cultural changes that has given more equality to same sex couples. On nearly every count your generation is much more ethical and fair than my generation. Except for one thing. Artist rights."
― dronestreet, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 02:42 (eleven years ago) link
ugh these people are giant pus stains
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 03:05 (eleven years ago) link
Your generation is almost as hypocritical as mine.
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 03:07 (eleven years ago) link
What generation is this guy from, where artists had 100% control over their works and there were no evil record companies?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
Thats what im saying. "Many of your generation..." blow it up your ass u waste of flesh and die from it
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 03:12 (eleven years ago) link
I'm just glad we can forgive ethical oversights such as drones/government-sanctioned torture/war on terror/etc. because we buy Seventh Generation toilet paper.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 03:20 (eleven years ago) link
I can't really fathom the mindset that tries to draw comparisons between the activities of artists/musicians and the labor of sweatshop workers.
― mississippi joan hart (crüt), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 03:51 (eleven years ago) link
Our intention is not to embarrass or shame her.
Then why not send this essay as an email rather than posting it in public.
I might have agreed with what he wrote but it was so patronising I could only get through the first few sentences.
― badg, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 04:26 (eleven years ago) link
"modestmickey"
― buzza, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 04:38 (eleven years ago) link
And guess who weighs in!
http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2012/06/18/the-david-lowery-screed/
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 04:40 (eleven years ago) link
Be the new Curt Flood
Flood sat out the entire 1970 season. The Cardinals sent two minor leaguers to the Phillies in compensation for Flood's refusal to report. One of them—centerfielder Willie Montañez—went on to a 14-year major league career. In November 1970 the Phillies traded Flood and four other players to the Washington Senators. He signed a $110,000 contract with Washington but played only 13 games of the 1971 season, with a .200 batting average and lackluster play in center field. Former teammate Gibson later wrote that Flood once returned to his locker to find a funeral wreath on it. Despite manager Ted Williams's vote of confidence, Flood retired.
― buzza, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 05:07 (eleven years ago) link
as someone who still feels guilty about the time i was really glib in front of a musician I admire about ripping their music, I had no problem with David Lowery guilt-tripping someone who was glib about getting the benefits of being a music lover without having to spend a dime.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 05:25 (eleven years ago) link
Yes, in context, lowery's article isn't condescending at all. I felt bad for the 21 year old intern a few times when he really got going, but overall, given the last sentence of her post, everyone clearly needed a lecture
And that Lefsetz post. Good lord, that guy, for all his 'straight talk'. He's wrong about everything it means to be human, and singlehandedly justifies every momentary bit of excess in David's article:
You start first with a killer product. And then you leverage this for change. Knowing that economics are more powerful than emotions.
...The problem is the artists.
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 05:53 (eleven years ago) link
Our intention is not to embarrass or shame her. Then why not send this essay as an email rather than posting it in public.I might have agreed with what he wrote but it was so patronising I could only get through the first few sentences.― badg
― badg
OTM
― moley, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 07:35 (eleven years ago) link
Lefsetz is also bang on the money, especially this:
To be fighting file-sharing is akin to protesting dot matrix printers. File-trading is on its way out. Because it takes too much time to do it. And you don’t fight piracy with laws, but economic solutions. It doesn’t pay to steal if you can listen instantly on Spotify and its ilk.
― moley, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 07:37 (eleven years ago) link
(no disrespect intended to you, Milton, as obviously there are two sides to this)
― moley, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 07:43 (eleven years ago) link
Hardly, only if you're dumb like Lefsetz. As Lowery points out, Spotify and it ilk's business model is based on the threat of piracy. Even if streaming was to completely take over it would be reliant on the (now) hidden threat of downloading. So downloading still utterly relevant whether you agree with Lowery or Lefsetz's prescriptions.
― Jedmond, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 08:20 (eleven years ago) link
I had no problem with David Lowery guilt-tripping someone who was glib about getting the benefits of being a music lover without having to spend a dime.
This being NPR, no doubt dude has PLENTY of experience guilt-tripping people about free music. LOL
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 12:43 (eleven years ago) link
Steve Albini, who has had problems with Lowery's recent stances anyway:
The two examples Lowery uses, Chestnutt and Sparklehorse, are prime examples of bands induced into living above their means and ending up in sharecropper status. Sure they had a money tit for a while, but when it becomes obvious to the money people your band's sales can't pay for quarter-million dollar recording budgets, then those budgets go away along with the other slush money those bands get to take advantage of.It's not the fault of the audience that they were in a game rigged to induce wild, unsustainable expectations.
It's not the fault of the audience that they were in a game rigged to induce wild, unsustainable expectations.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 12:46 (eleven years ago) link
the 'picking on an intern' aspect of this is kind of silly imo -- she's an adult that wrote and published a piece in a high profile outlet, maybe she did or didn't get paid for it, but people should get to respond to what she wrote however they wish without it becoming about them beating up on a poor college kid. her byline prob shouldn't have had the word 'intern' in it just because it's kind of diminishing to begin with. lots of writers start as interns, it's no biggie.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 12:48 (eleven years ago) link
I'll believe downloading is on its way out when I can no longer find things I want to download. Which, granted, may be happening, with the megaupload meltdown; it definitely is harder to find certain things. But I would be happy to live in a world when rips of old vinyl and true obscurities abound, and most other stuff is pay-to-play. The issue right now is one of temptation, not convenience. It's the equivalent of leaving an unattended bowl of candy on your porch on Halloween and expecting the honor system to surmount something so appealing and free.
I don't think streaming is the solution, just the medium, and I don't even need to read Lefsetz to know whatever he has to say is dumb. And the OTM Lowery thing - fuck thinking he sounded patronizing, boo hoo - seemed very much the tonal twin of nearly everything I have ever seen him write, from Camper Van Beethoven liner notes to similar essays in recent months, and I have no problem with it all. The guy has seen it from every side, as an artist, producer, label guy, academic, and he does a great, very effective job personalizing the effects of downloading by highlighting the fates of Linkous and Chesnutt, even honestly underscoring mitigating factors (drugs, depression) while still explaining the effect loss of income had on them. Lost amidst the debate is his concrete suggestion that if people profess to care yet still steal, they donate to one of his recommended music charities.
Unless he's privy to something none of us know, Albini is a complete dick for claiming Chesnutt, a paraplegic with a billion medical bills, and Linkous, a depressive with drug issues, were somehow "living above their means." In today's America, their means would likely have bought them a park bench for the night.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 12:54 (eleven years ago) link
he seems to be pretty obviously talking about them as musical projects rather than the individuals' personal finances
― jacob von logflume (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:00 (eleven years ago) link
Well, I'm not saying that you personally killed Mark Linkous, but...
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:06 (eleven years ago) link
Albini is a complete dick for
surely some mistake here
― the hat's filthy lesson (sic), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:18 (eleven years ago) link
iirc there is a larger issue than downloading music here, can't quite put my finger on it tho
― thomp, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:18 (eleven years ago) link
he's a crank revisionist, there's plenty of ad hominem, crabby shit, and many people have it worse than professional musicians, but the only reason I can see for begrudging lowery's grumble is to make yourself feel better about benefiting from a shitty situation for the people who create stuff you love.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:19 (eleven years ago) link
I learned about this exchange from a tweet by, guess how, Aimee Mann, Our Lady of Perpetual Grievousness.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:21 (eleven years ago) link
"Unless he's privy to something none of us know, Albini is a complete dick for claiming Chesnutt, a paraplegic with a billion medical bills, and Linkous, a depressive with drug issues, were somehow "living above their means.""
To me the stories of Chesnutt and Linkous seem more linked to the poor state of our nation's healthcare system than illegal downloading but what do I know.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:22 (eleven years ago) link
they do seem more linked, but if you go "yee-ha, i love weird hip music and i don't have to pay for it" forgive somebody for noting those weirdos tend to die broke and unhappy.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:23 (eleven years ago) link
Who doesn't die broke and unhappy these days?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:27 (eleven years ago) link
it really sucks that Linkous and Chesnutt's sad, complicated stories have become poker chips in this debate because a friend of theirs used them as a prop in his argument
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:27 (eleven years ago) link
yeah that really sucks, that lowery what an asshole
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:28 (eleven years ago) link
It really sucks that they're props in the Obamacare argument.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:29 (eleven years ago) link
i actually agree with Lowery more often than not, but y'know, if he catches feelings about Albini or whatever accusing his dead friends of being deluded major label beneficiaries then DL should definitely realize that's on him
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:31 (eleven years ago) link
Let's just be thankful that before file sharing no musician died broke and unhappy.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:32 (eleven years ago) link
if only lowery could give his friends the consideration we do by not acknowledging that economic issues affected their well-being. maybe he can join us on a more respectable S&D thread.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:32 (eleven years ago) link
people should really think about WHY they want to say Lowery should be glad they had it so good
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:33 (eleven years ago) link
albini's been a cassandra about the alt-bubble long enough that it's fair for him to point out this shit, and he's right that the chickens are coming home to roost. but when one of us lucky college dj/writer ducks says "what you need to do is think about how to better serve music lovers like me" i don't mind a musician stepping up to say "actually you've got it criminally good right now."
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:37 (eleven years ago) link
definitely
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:38 (eleven years ago) link
"forgive somebody for noting those weirdos tend to die broke and unhappy"
But that's not a recent thing entirely... unless you want to blame downloading for Nick Drake or whatever.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:43 (eleven years ago) link
Linkous overdosed on antidepressants at the height of his success. and in the last 7 years of his life cobbled together one Sparklehorse album partially with previously released tracks. and remained on a major label his whole career even with indie-level sales. the whole thing was pretty sad, and i was crushed to hear about his suicide. but i don't imagine there's any scenario where he'd be alive today because of bigger royalty checks.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:48 (eleven years ago) link
industry downturns are just part of the sad circle of life
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:49 (eleven years ago) link
"that's really sad about your friends, david. here, have some rationalizations about how they were doomed even if their lives had not been negatively effected by a change in economy."
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:52 (eleven years ago) link
Obviously national health care is a bigger issue than downloading, but they're tied together, you know. These guys had expensive problems, and lack of money may have had a role in treating them, go figure.
Also, lame to dismiss this as Lowery playing them as chips. They were flat-out friends of his. Peers, colleagues, neighbors and friends. And per Albini, he can be totally reasonable, but to paint/taint Chesnutt and Linkous somehow as windfall beneficiaries of major label largesse ... I dunno, man. Those guys were pretty marginal.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:55 (eleven years ago) link
If anything, Linkous and Chesnutt are actually examples of how major labels were free to spend money on more marginal acts when the getting was good.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:56 (eleven years ago) link
i think that's Albini's point. those guys never had mass appeal but a couple years of living off of unrealistic label budgets can permanently screw up someone's personal finances, and income/expense ratios.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:57 (eleven years ago) link
Albini has this horse that he rides as a hobby...
Band gets advance pre first album, everyone celebrates (including label people) on the ticket, makes album.
Band gets told 2nd album is required, but as 1st album didn't sell a mill, budget is smaller. Band eats sensibly.
Band gets told 3rd album is due, but no budget at all. band pack in, label goes OK see you, etc.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:58 (eleven years ago) link
don't know if it's correct in those cases, but that seemed to be what he was getting at.
the thing that people don't get a lot of times about anti-major label philosophies is that it's more from a place of fiscal responsibility than not caring about money. Ian Mackaye places a lot of pride in the fact that Dischord never lost money on a project, because they never overinvested in anything with unrealistic expectations for the return, which is basically the case with the overwhelming majority of major label albums.
xpost
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 13:59 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, albini's point is more along the lines of major label deals being designed to keep artists indentured in debt, company store type stuff
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:00 (eleven years ago) link
― da croupier, Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:52 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark
that's exactly the kind of thing i was lamenting when i said it's kind of unfortunate that DL made them the focal point of the discussion. because look, now we're talking about these two people instead of the larger context in which he brought them up, and the same thing is probably happening on a hundred other sites at the moment.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:02 (eleven years ago) link
wow
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:04 (eleven years ago) link
talk about killing the messenger
"it's just a shame he brought his friends out to be rationalized away by us internet assholes"
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:05 (eleven years ago) link
I seriously doubt Linkous and Chesnutt were raking in the cash. And Albini's general point is sound. It's porting these specific dudes into his model that is problematic. I'm not sure how less money would have helped two guys with depressive streaks, one a drug addict and the other a paraplegic. Lowery specifically cites a decline in lost income over the last decade in their cases. They were good friends, you'd think he would know.
I do wonder about some of Lowery's later stats, namely this stuff:
Of the 75,000 albums released in 2010 only 2,000 sold more than 5,000 copies. Only 1,000 sold more than 10,000 copies. Without going into details, 10,000 albums is about the point where independent artists begin to go into the black on professional album production, marketing and promotion.
At the peak of flushness - say, the year 2000 - how many albums were selling more than 5000 copies? More than 10,000? I have a weird feeling those numbers have been pretty much stable for a long time.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:06 (eleven years ago) link
well, i bet he has a lot of broke musician friends, but he chose to only name the two that recently killed themselves. maybe that was an emotional choice, maybe it was chosen to put an emotional charge into his argument. either way i'm not sure it was a very wise choice.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:07 (eleven years ago) link
if only lowery realized the kneejerk defensiveness he'd get from music fans who don't want to admit their complicity in fucking over musicians
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:08 (eleven years ago) link
who are we talking about here. i bought a copy of the last Sparklehorse album AND reviewed it, man, my conscience is clean.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:09 (eleven years ago) link
oh your best-of-years run way too deep to be wholly above ground
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:10 (eleven years ago) link
It's vital to the argument that Lowery name names in this case, that he puts a face on the problem, however extreme. I think it's a wise choice because it was an emotional choice, or chosen to put an emotional charge into his argument Otherwise, it's just another academic "there's this band..." situation, and I find it as frustrating as anyone that so much of this debate takes place in a vacuum. For example, I certainly appreciate Albini's famous Baffler essay, but it would have been better with specifics. It's also why those Sweet Relief comps, while raising money for everyone, were linked to specific acts.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:11 (eleven years ago) link
― da croupier, Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:10 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark
oh i'm living in the cloud now, man, i might not have bought a Sparklehorse album on CD if it came out in the last 4 years. i was just cherrypicking a convenient example because it was there, obv.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:16 (eleven years ago) link
the thing that people don't get a lot of times about anti-major label philosophies is that it's more from a place of fiscal responsibility than not caring about money. Ian Mackaye places a lot of pride in the fact that Dischord never lost money on a project
Mackaye has also been very lucky that life has not yet intervened in his idealism. How did indie idealism work out for J. Robbins when the medical bills started piling up? Fortunately fans and friends have been very generous with their time and money, but the implication is that the money he made as an (I imagine successful) independent artist was simply not enough, and I do not blame his dalliance with Atlantic for that.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:17 (eleven years ago) link
It's just as valid to cite the number of free CDs given to Journalists / outlets / radio stations / etc.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:18 (eleven years ago) link
how is it 'idealism' to always attempt to operate at a profit instead of going for the big risk/big reward gambit of more ambitious music industry go-getters?
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:20 (eleven years ago) link
i'm totally sympathetic to the "hey artist, get a real job/go indie" logic when it's just some guitarist bitching about how the world doesn't want to buy them a cadillac (JD Samson's "i was lied to by the star machine" huffpo piece is a good example), but lowery laying out how the scene got shittier for artists - and not just for major label folks - can really only be read as that if you feel the need to rationalize away the point.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:21 (eleven years ago) link
that's the disconnect for me, it seems like people want to paint "i want to own my masters and not answer to an A&R when writing my songs" as a more pie-in-the-sky career priority than "i want to sell a million records and be world famous no matter what it takes" (xpost)
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:22 (eleven years ago) link
it's a really stupid piece, stop defending it
― thomp, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:23 (eleven years ago) link
"why are you comfortable with spending money on a college education and not recorded music"
...
― thomp, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:24 (eleven years ago) link
ok, lefestz
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:24 (eleven years ago) link
i thought that part of the post was his strongest argument
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:25 (eleven years ago) link
It seems to be OK for a music artist to live with his guitar for company and make a sustainable existance, as opposed to us with proper jobs that can go off on holidays, eat out, buy clothes and CDs and stuff.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:25 (eleven years ago) link
guess I sit somewhere between lefsetz and lowery. yeah the lowery piece was patronizing but that's the nature of agit-prop. if it made a couple ppl say to themselves, hey my budget for music is fucked up, maybe I should make an effort to buy an album once a month, then that's cool.
I agree w/ lefsetz to the extant that the game has changed and artists need to respond to that, and the smart ones have. to me the current gold standard is swans, gira's done a great job of dealing direct w/ fans to finance his operations and I have to assume he's doing better than if he'd gone the traditional route of signing to an indie label. however, he's still very vocal about his dislike of the reigning consumer attitude of "music is free". so you can follow lefsetz's path but still feel the way lowery does, those two viewpoints are not necessarily at odds with each other.
it is weird to hear musicians be nostalgic for the good time 80s/90s. being a musician didn't ever seem like an easy road. in the 80s indie acts complained non-stop about ripoff distributors and shoddily run labels, and albini's right that the 90s co-opting of the underground by major labels did a disservice to a lot of folks' music careers.
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:27 (eleven years ago) link
lowery's "you care about foxconn, but not me?" bit is overreaching, but the basic point that people are cavalier about contributing nothing to enjoy a culture they claim to love is pretty dead on
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:28 (eleven years ago) link
David Lowery is the drummer for Gay Dad.
― thomp, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:29 (eleven years ago) link
it is weird to hear musicians be nostalgic for the good time 80s/90s. being a musician didn't ever seem like an easy road. in the 80s indie acts complained non-stop about ripoff distributors and shoddily run labels,
how's Grant Hart's financial status these days?
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:30 (eleven years ago) link
It's not a strictly binary dialectic here. It's not a black and white thing. There's nothing wrong with idealism. But I think often idealism falters when things get less ... ideal. For example, Mackaye is an idol of mine, on many fronts, and proof that there is a successful way to make a living as an independent artist. And yet he's not paraplegic, or depressive, or with a son with a congenital disease. If he were any of those things, he may have been tempted, at least once, to take major label money, or do something that infringes on his idealism, just as many people take shitty jobs just for the health care, or to help pay the bills.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
xpost I think Grant makes money as an artist. Like Chris Mars.
Marc Masters' mention of the piece on FB led to a lot of back and forth; you'll see some familiar names in the comments (besides my opening snark, obv.)
https://www.facebook.com/marc.masters/posts/10151830688220707
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
link dnw
― Mark G, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:32 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i think DL's point is worth making to young people who spend discretionary income on all sorts of things but not music. but at a certain point when he's lecturing someone who was in 3rd grade when Napster happened, it's probably also worth pointing out that they didn't start the fire. (xpost)
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
it seems like people want to paint "i want to own my masters and not answer to an A&R when writing my songs" as a more pie-in-the-sky career priority than "i want to sell a million records and be world famous no matter what it takes
I just finished that Paul Trynka bio of Bowie and even a Rock Star of his stature didn't own his masters until 1999 after being royally fucked out of millions.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
it's probably also worth pointing out that they didn't start the fire.
especially if your mouth is full of s'mores
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:36 (eleven years ago) link
?
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:37 (eleven years ago) link
i refuse to elucidate my glorious metaphor
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:38 (eleven years ago) link
the smores are mp3 files
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:38 (eleven years ago) link
Fluffy bunny?
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:38 (eleven years ago) link
i filled your mom's mouth with s'mores
peculiarly enough i still mean 'music piracy' there though
― thomp, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:38 (eleven years ago) link
But he part owned them already by the late eighties, IIRC? So better than might have been the case. I think the only album he doesn't have any specific rights to at all is the first, self-titled one.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:41 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i mean 'owning your master recordings' as something even on the radar of many musicians as any kind of priority seems like a relatively recent development that we can probably thank diy indie for to some extent
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:44 (eleven years ago) link
Perhaps if he hadn't just completely eliminated the industry's long history in fucking over musicians in favor of jumping straight from "Artist controls everything" to "Post-Napster Music Apocalypse".
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:45 (eleven years ago) link
People keep saying stuff like this, which seems to boil down to "because musicians have always had it hard, there's nothing wrong with people availing themselves of musicians' labor withing paying for it." I'm more sympathetic than most artists I know to filesharing, but that logic is nonsense.
Filesharing however is reality, it's not going to change & all parsings of it are pointless: it's like resenting osmosis. So in this matter I'm pretty Lefsetzian even though I can't read him for more than a few lines without getting hives: you have to get out on the road & stay there, and you have to remain compelling live & kick ass every night, and if you don't, you're going to go hungry. That is a damn shame - there are plenty of great artists for whom the live arena just isn't the best venue - but those are the breaks; the future belongs to the charismatic, for better or worse, probably worse.
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:46 (eleven years ago) link
your stuff is kind of incoherent here man - you seem to routinely be arguing that since somebody's always been fucking artists over, it might as well be their fans
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:47 (eleven years ago) link
The principal reason, according to Trynka, why Bowie approved the Bowie Bonds thing was so he could use the advance to buy his songs.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:47 (eleven years ago) link
those who can play live play live. those who cannot charge twice as much for DJ sets.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:47 (eleven years ago) link
shakin my fist @ rich-ass DJs
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:48 (eleven years ago) link
because musicians have always had it hard, there's nothing wrong with people availing themselves of musicians' labor withing paying for it
Yeah i didn't say this. Just trying to smash the ridiculous golden age this guy is painting by leaving the industry completely out of the conversation.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:48 (eleven years ago) link
why though
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:48 (eleven years ago) link
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:48 AM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark
ha i'm just sayin, i think the uncharismatic studio rats will be aight
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:49 (eleven years ago) link
Matches with what I'd heard. Nice move if you can do it (the Rolling Stones have to be pissed they didn't think of that).
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:50 (eleven years ago) link
I mean ideally, nobody would be fucking over musicians. I am a musician.
Pointing out that the industry has been fucking over musicians does not mean I support stealing music. It's that this guy has painted a pretty unrealistic and idealistic portrait of the pre-filesharing music industry. I feel the need to bring that up because he has left it out of the discussion, on that page at least.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:50 (eleven years ago) link
xpost Aero, at your commercial peak, as such, I'd be really curious how reliable your record sales were/are. Like, ever enough to impart a certain level of comfort/freedom, or never enough to put the hustle on hold?
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
it was kind of irrelevant to his rebuttal, though. xpost
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not sure it's an idealistic portrait of pre-filesharing so much as underscoring how much worse things have become post-filesharing.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:52 (eleven years ago) link
Like, now even your fans are screwing you out of money, awesome!
The accepted norm for hudreds of years of western civilization is the artist exclusively has the right to exploit and control his/her work for a period of time. (Since the works that are are almost invariably the subject of these discussions are popular culture of one type or another, the duration of the copyright term is pretty much irrelevant for an ethical discussion.) By allowing the artist to treat his/her work as actual property, the artist can decide how to monetize his or her work. This system has worked very well for fans and artists. Now we are being asked to undo this not because we think this is a bad or unfair way to compensate artists but simply because it is technologically possible for corporations or individuals to exploit artists work without their permission on a massive scale and globally. We are being asked to continue to let these companies violate the law without being punished or prosecuted. We are being asked to change our morality and principals to match what I think are immoral and unethical business models.Who are these companies? They are sites like The Pirate Bay, or Kim Dotcom and Megaupload. They are “legitimate” companies like Google that serve ads to these sites through AdChoices and Doubleclick. They are companies like Grooveshark that operate streaming sites without permission from artists and over the objections of the artist, much less payment of royalties lawfully set by the artist. They are the venture capitalists that raise money for these sites. They are the hardware makers that sell racks of servers to these companies. And so on and so on.
Who are these companies? They are sites like The Pirate Bay, or Kim Dotcom and Megaupload. They are “legitimate” companies like Google that serve ads to these sites through AdChoices and Doubleclick. They are companies like Grooveshark that operate streaming sites without permission from artists and over the objections of the artist, much less payment of royalties lawfully set by the artist. They are the venture capitalists that raise money for these sites. They are the hardware makers that sell racks of servers to these companies. And so on and so on.
How did the old system work, exactly? "By allowing the artist to treat his/her work as actual property, the artist can decide how to monetize his or her work"? That was standard practice in the music industry for 50 years or so? And then it jumped straight to looting?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:55 (eleven years ago) link
My beef is not with his message, which i think is good. It's just how he is misrepresenting history to the dumb younger generation he is supposedly trying to educate.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:57 (eleven years ago) link
shitty as they might have been, people signed contracts to monetize their work. the only reason to describe the corruption of the music industry is to let fans off the hook for being shitty too.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:58 (eleven years ago) link
i think you are oversimplifying an oversimplification
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 14:58 (eleven years ago) link
Aero, at your commercial peak, as such, I'd be really curious how reliable your record sales were/are. Like, ever enough to impart a certain level of comfort/freedom, or never enough to put the hustle on hold?
I have never been able to slow down my hustle but I mean I love my job so it's more or less cool? But record sales, actual sales income, that's extra money, not get-paid money. I haven't ever been able to stay home for a season because of royalties checks/advances & that trend will continue although my sales personally have literally been on the slow incline since forever: they reliably get a little bigger every time, but they will never afford me enough pay to keep me off the road. It's cool I didn't really need to see the baby's first steps, seen one baby walkin' you've seen 'em all lol
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:05 (eleven years ago) link
and that, my friends, is how you guilt people into buying your next album on CD
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
You mean buying a ticket to see you live!
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
If they can walk, they can damn well carry a guitar case. Resource that shit my mans.
― gonna send him to outer space, to hug another face (NickB), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
<i>It's cool I didn't really need to see the baby's first steps, seen one baby walkin' you've seen 'em all lol</i>
tbf this is the case for parents of every profession
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
well it's different coming home that night and seeing their 10th step than coming home 3 weeks later and seeing them run
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
Er, no? There's a big difference between a parent who can go home every day at 5 pm versus a parent on the road for extended periods of time.
― I found him in a Bon Ton ad (Nicole), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:20 (eleven years ago) link
That punk rock dad doc gets into this. Even Flea cries.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:21 (eleven years ago) link
jeez, you guys are reading context into it that wasn't there. aero said BABY'S FIRST STEPS...not BABY'S FIRST STEPS AND THEN ANOTHER 2 WEEKS WORTH OF WALKING.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
If that were the case, that baby would be clear out of the county by now.
― gonna send him to outer space, to hug another face (NickB), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
"follow the tour bus, sweetie!"
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:24 (eleven years ago) link
Are you being deliberately disingenuous now or what. xxp
― I found him in a Bon Ton ad (Nicole), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
and then he comes back, and baby be downloadin' the set!
― Mark G, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
johnny wasn't actually rebutting the point of aero's post, just missing/ignoring it to nitpick the specific wording, jeez guys.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
Pierced Arrows to thread
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:30 (eleven years ago) link
Are you being deliberately disingenuous now or what.
No, I'm not. aero made a thoughtful post about his own situation, but then capped it off with a dilemma that affects moms and dads in all professions. I pointed that out without considering the context that it might be a few more days before he gets to see it. Though, again, there are other professions besides musician that require extended travel (perhaps not for months or weeks at a time, but it could be several days before Jane at Widgets-R-Us gets to see her child walking because she's been in meetings across the country with her Taiwanese part suppliers).
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:33 (eleven years ago) link
"curse this road life, I've missed baby's first step-ball-change"
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
I'd be pretty interested in reading an article on how the live side of the business has changed. Has it? Are ticket sales down too? In a way that doesn't just reflect the lousy economy?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
there's a lot of stuff about the summer touring circuit (and the increased economic necessity of it) in the new issue of Spin actually
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:39 (eleven years ago) link
I have a trench-level view of the attitude lowery is decrying, where I see ivy league college students trying to stroll into warehouse shows without paying the cover, or folks who "love this band" but spend more on their beer tab than they do at the merch table cuz they'll just download that shit later. that's not to say those ppl are disgusting savages, but maybe they just don't get the connection between that $5 cover or $10 CD and the $100 in gas the band needs to get to the next show. explaining those dependencies can sound patronizing or badgering, but it's as much of a reality as "tip your bartender", and arguing against it makes you sound like mr pink.
obv that's a microeconomics perspective, but that same attitude extends to the macro-level, and appears to be more widespread in younger generations. it's not a bad thing for somebody like lowery to pull back the curtain and explain some of the mechanics, to dispel some of the romanticism around being a musician. as mr aerosmith said, touring is one of the few ways to make money nowadays. some folks may say "boo hoo you have to go on the road with your blow and groupies, dl'ing yr album now" but touring is hard on the body and the soul for real, not to mention high risk - bands can be one van break-in away from losing everything they made on tour.
one million xps
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
^^ quality post
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
Anyone notice the price increases for album downloads on both Amazon and iTunes recently? In most cases just a buck or two but it's still significant (iirc, the standard was $8.99, now showing a mixture of $9.99 and $10.99 usd). Not sure if this is at all tied into the July 1st RIAA/ISP crackdown but thought it was interesting.
― musicfanatic, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
When was the standard ever 8.99? It's been 9.99 for as long as I can remember.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
blow & groupies:tour::big royalty checks:album
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
You know, one of the things I tried to find on the internet a couple years ago was:
"The price of LPs and singles through the years"
I remember being shocked at the price of singles going from 50p to 99p back in 1979 or so, albums were £2.99 or £3.99
Since then, they have yoyoed. I remember buying a BAD album for an extortionate £8 whenever it was,
And So On...
― Mark G, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
Really? I don't remember ever seeing a 9.99 album with the exception of double albums. I could be wrong though, nevermind.
― musicfanatic, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
I remember buying a BAD album for an extortionate £8 whenever it was
this is the kind of childhood trauma i think about when i'm tempted to crack my cd-rs in a fit of guilt
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
Exactly.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I buy a ton of albums off itunes and the standard has been $9.99 for years.
― how's life, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:51 (eleven years ago) link
I still remember paying $19.99 + tax for Outkast's Aquemini CD at Warehouse Music back in '98. Don't miss those years.xpost
― musicfanatic, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
spend more on their beer tab than they do at the merch table
Wait, who *doesn't* do this aside from teetotallers? Beer is expensive, man.
― emil.y, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
"I still remember paying $19.99 + tax for Outkast's Aquemini"
Worth every penny.
― Gotye Sports (It's In The Name) (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:07 (eleven years ago) link
lol you should have seen me at 90s Cure shows, I would basically buy one of every t-shirt
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:13 (eleven years ago) link
I think the first 3 times I saw them I dropped $300 on shirts without even blinking
then I looked at a pile of t-shirts that would take me a month to go through and I started blinking
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
Cor blimey. I don't have anywhere near enough money to do stuff like that. Anyway, even if I drop £15 on an LP at a show, I will have spent at least £20 on booze... I don't really think that because booze is expensive I should have to buy another bloody 7" or something, I've already paid in to the goddamn gig.
― emil.y, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
Someone had to keep Robert Smith in hookers and blow eyeliner and pies xp
― gonna send him to outer space, to hug another face (NickB), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:21 (eleven years ago) link
LOL@DJP's extensive shirt collection.
I don't go to a lot of shows (try living two hours from where anyone plays), but I chip in at the merch table when I can. Though one of the last shows I was at, it was nothing but vinyl. I guess that's great for some people, but I haven't had a turntable in 20 years.
The merch table at the Acid Mothers' show was mind-boggling. Musta been thirty albums laid out.
I refuse to pay eight bucks for a shot of cheap whisky.
― Matt M., Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:22 (eleven years ago) link
I usually buy a t-shirt if it's a band I'm really into, or if they have a good poster I'll score one of thsoe
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
*those
Aimee Mann @aimeemannThanks for the update! RT @darklordjames: @aimeemann You and most musicians need to learn that your product isn't worth $10 any more.
Thanks for the update! RT @darklordjames: @aimeemann You and most musicians need to learn that your product isn't worth $10 any more.
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
I have a box in our basement storage that has something on the order of 50 t-shirts in it, half of which are Cure and Prince concert t-shirts, that I haven't even opened in 11 years
in summation: 90s touring artists I saw, you are welcome
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:28 (eleven years ago) link
Hahah um....
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:28 (eleven years ago) link
Haha, Mat Mt, I'll only buy vinyl, so I feel that way about CDs... until I find out that actually the record will never be pressed on vinyl and I really should have bought the inferior format while I had a chance. I will buy demo CDs by new bands for a couple of quid, though, and the odd cassette release.
I wear a tie most of the time so I've kind of stopped buying band t-shirts, as it's difficult to rock a logo and a tie simultaneously.
― emil.y, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
Mat Mt? I meant Matt M. Sorry for inadvertent anagramming.
― emil.y, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
Make note aerosmith, there's a growing demand for band ties/tie pins out there these days
― gonna send him to outer space, to hug another face (NickB), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:39 (eleven years ago) link
The ability to record and encode and share and stream music efficiently and inexpensively is the greatest thing.
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:40 (eleven years ago) link
"Free music" is like so bloody amazing I can't understand this argument.
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
Oh man, a proper band tie pin would be the most awesomely rad raddest thing.
xposts
― emil.y, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
guilty!
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
Lowery is like one of those American politicians who continue to insist that Americans *should* pay for health care.
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:43 (eleven years ago) link
Sorry I'm having my own private idaho right now, I just tuned in
OK but hey -- people also get to produce and distribute and consume video much more easily and inexpensively now than before the internet, but people who work in TV and movies and the monetized end of web video haven't had their livelihood remotely as endangered by the new reality. there could probably be some middle ground between that and what's happened with music.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:45 (eleven years ago) link
I imagine if he read that his head would explode.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:45 (eleven years ago) link
― emil.y, Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:56 AM (35 minutes ago)
you clipped the end of my statement which implied spending $0 at the merch table. I'm talking about ppl who never visit a merch table but don't think twice about dropping $20 on beer because they can't download a beer for free. I guess if they could we would have a big long thread about the value of getting drunk and the long hours brewmakers spend cleaning out their tanks.
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:46 (eleven years ago) link
lol at "@darklordjames" weighing in
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:48 (eleven years ago) link
More like an American doctor
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:48 (eleven years ago) link
Ray Charles made ownership of his master recordings a condition of signing with ABC in 1959. I don't know how much (if any) precedent there was for it at the time -- the biopic naturally dramatizes the point to make it look like absolutely no one owned their masters. But I always wondered if/how many other artists started making this demand once they got wind of Ray's deal.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:49 (eleven years ago) link
Pretty sure Laibach had these when I saw them in '92. Hell, they may have had their own line of ties.
― 誤訳侮辱, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:50 (eleven years ago) link
Not so sure about band logo ties, really, it seems a bit 'zany'. But a tie pin, yes yes yes. Nice neat little logo you can pin on to whatever tie you like.
― emil.y, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
xp I'm sorry to take that tired socialist gambit here, but Canada and Europe are filled with OK-paid musicians who back up their tour budgets with grants and publicly/privately sponsored events; their recordings are paid for by licensing deals; they have jobs, too, that don't necessarily require insurance plans.
I don't think any argument can be made about "life sucks for American musicians" without getting to the root of the problem, which imo is America's health care system. Blaming an intern for not taking care of a depressed/addicted songwriter and a paraplegic/depressed songwriter and citing "medical bills piling up" is a reenforcement of free market economic stupidity
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:53 (eleven years ago) link
Like how can there possibly be a creative class if people have to pay $500 for herpes medication
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
i missed the part where Lowery blamed the intern for not looking after songwriters
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
I used to have Einstürzende Neubauten earrings, but I don't think they were official merch.
― EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
Joe Perry: yo Steve is our tour accounting done yet? bills kinda stacking up here.Steven Tyler: yeah I got it, I've been kind of putting off forwarding itJoe Perry: what do you mean? that was our best tour since Pump, couldn't believe some of those gate numbers! was it time to pay the insurance again or something?Steven Tyler: no, Joe, it's -- it's the tie pins. We're going to have to eat a lot of money on the Aerosmith tie pins.Joe Perry: well, it's just a merch item, right? How much money's left after we eat the tie pins?Steven Tyler: After we eat the tie pins -- carry the 5, right, decimal over three places...there is no money after we eat the tie pins
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:57 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think you're supposed to eat them. They're kind of pointy.
― emil.y, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:58 (eleven years ago) link
xp and then they ate the rich and it was all good again
― cwkiii, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:58 (eleven years ago) link
pretty sure aerosmith could find an alternate use for pins
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 16:58 (eleven years ago) link
@ Que actually he does it pretty explicitly, buttressed by "of course I'm not saying this to make you feel bad, I'm just telling you to donate ~$2.5K in their memory"
I present these two stories to you not because I’m pointing fingers or want to shame you. I just want to illustrate that “small” personal decisions have very real consequences, particularly when millions of people make the decision not to compensate artists they supposedly “love”
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
The artist only has to “repay” (or “recoup”) the advance from record sales. If there are no or insufficient record sales, the advance is written off by the record company.
I haven't had any first-hand experience with this, but is that even remotely accurate?
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:01 (eleven years ago) link
just as i get albini wanting to make this about the '90s alterna-singing craze, i get a canadian wanting to make this aboot health care
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:01 (eleven years ago) link
listen everyone just download shit but you don't have to be such a dick that you brag about it in a NPR thinkpiece ok?
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
that's cause it is. The article is about Linkous and Chesnutt being abandoned xp
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
i don't see him placing any blame in what he's saying that not paying for music has real consequences, but he never once says that the intern is to blame/has to take care of songwriters.
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
^^^^^^
^^^
^
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:04 (eleven years ago) link
oops let's try that again
i don't see him placing any blame. he's saying that not paying for music has real consequences, but he never once says that the intern is to blame/has to take care of songwriters. the article is not about songwriters being abandoned, and if that's your takeaway you are missing the point
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:04 (eleven years ago) link
most people I know don't actually give a shit about illegal downloading & do it themselves but it's hard not to feel a unique strain of contempt when some nicely dressed kid smoking Rothmans goes out of his way to say "I love your stuff...I don't actually own any of it" [feigned shrinking-back-from-anticipated-attack gesture here] "Sorry, I'm" a) "poor" b) "evil"
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:08 (eleven years ago) link
does he make scare quotes when he says evil or does he pronounce it like Richard Burton?
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:09 (eleven years ago) link
her last paragraph is so hilarious
What I want is one massive Spotify-like catalog of music that will sync to my phone and various home entertainment devices. With this new universal database, everyone would have convenient access to everything that has ever been recorded, and performance royalties would be distributed based on play counts (hopefully with more money going back to the artist than the present model). All I require is the ability to listen to what I want, when I want and how I want it. Is that too much to ask?
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:09 (eleven years ago) link
@ Que: he ends the article by suggesting the intern make cash donations with links xp
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:09 (eleven years ago) link
is my rhetorical question piquant?
As far as I'm concerned, he is telling the intern (and the music absorbing masses) that it is their responsibility to take care of the creative class
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:10 (eleven years ago) link
Jeez aero I'm always blustering when you're clowning we need to syncronize
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:12 (eleven years ago) link
Is that too much to ask?
the short answer is yes.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
he is telling the intern (and the music absorbing masses) that it is their responsibility to take care of the creative class
it would have been cool if he threw in a "or maybe campaign for universal healthcare if you aren't already" but i'm not mad he offered an outlet for dealing with plausible guilt after guilt-tripping
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
the only part of it that's too much to ask (i.e. unlikely to happen within the next few years) is the part where artists get a higher royalty rate than they currently do
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:17 (eleven years ago) link
notice how that last paragraph contains nothing about her paying for this universal database
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
3. How do you discover music at the radio station?
EW: Some of the fondest memories of my college experience have been sitting on the floor of the station on Sunday afternoons ripping towering stacks of CDs onto my laptop. My personal library more then tripped after becoming a part of college radio. I discover new music through being a DJ every week. At our station, we have music staff to write reviews for every new album we select for the station. Every review includes a RIYL (Rip If You Like) label with similar artists and I often use this as a guide as to what I might like.
http://imaginepr.net/2012/04/27/quickfire-qa-emily-white-music-director-wvau-radio/
― buzza, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:21 (eleven years ago) link
she probably pays the Spotify fee to not have her stream interrupted by ads. and would probably pay more than she's paying now.
or at least, i would. i mean, Spotify brings me about as much enjoyment as my cable TV package, but i pay like 20 times as much to have the whole enchilada with HBO and everything else as i do for Spotify. xpost
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:22 (eleven years ago) link
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:23 (eleven years ago) link
All I require is the ability to listen to what I want, when I want and how I want it.
if someone said this about, I dunno, food or clothing or shelter they would rightly be laughed off the face of the earth
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:25 (eleven years ago) link
physical media is totally stupid and retrograde buuuut....
EW: It’s a largely digital industry now. The number of digital albums we receive far outweigh the physical CDs. In that way, it’s almost smarter to send us a physical CD or physical promotional items– they are much more likely to get my attention. A CD with interesting packaging by an artist or label I’ve never heard of is more likely to be listened to then something in a plastic sleeve. I love getting posters, stickers and buttons in the mail. Including a hand-written note is also a sure-fire way to get my attention.
....please spend a lot of time and effort on making it because it will help you get MY ATTENTION
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:25 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i got a tooooon of music via my college radio days but this is so far through the looking glass that i don't understand begrudging the ghost of pitch-a-tent his chain rattle
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:27 (eleven years ago) link
i don't understand
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:29 (eleven years ago) link
honestly, physical music media is over for most of the world and always will be from hereon out. doesn't really matter how or why it happened, i just hope that someone finds a way for people who make music to not be totally SOL because of it in a way that doesn't involve a bunch of us nerds who still fetishize physical product demanding everyone else be more like us.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:30 (eleven years ago) link
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:31 (eleven years ago) link
sorry that was an except from my beat poem about the death of '80s indie rock. I just mean I've been where this college DJ/tastemaker person is on the privilege scale, but she's so openly glib about her spoils that I don't understand why people want to begrudge lowery (who ran a diy label in 1985 donchaknow) his guilt-trip/factoid pull
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:32 (eleven years ago) link
so you understand the difference between a good that can be reproduced a million times for no cost and one that can't? hmmmm, interesting
her idea is a legit one, but the idea of Spotify being free or only $5 a month or whatever is absurd. but yes this is the future of everything
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:32 (eleven years ago) link
and yeah, while i plan to become a real patron of the arts if and when i go up an economic notch, that will really only benefit guys like David Lowery, and not the horseshit only a new college student could love
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:33 (eleven years ago) link
xpost to croup
ah ok i agree w/that
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:33 (eleven years ago) link
frogs don't ever say "hmmm, interesting" again k
music is not produced at no cost frogbs thx for playing
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:34 (eleven years ago) link
fine, so long as you stop posting altogether
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:34 (eleven years ago) link
Just curious, how many of y'all are gonna lay off by July 11th? Oh sorry. IF YOU DID download shit, would that hypothetical you quit doing so in about two weeks?
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:34 (eleven years ago) link
Hypothetical me probably will tbqh.
either you're intentionally trying to misunderstand this so you can get off an invaluable quip like "thx for playing" or you truly are that dumb
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:35 (eleven years ago) link
since i got addicted to Spotify pretty much the only things i download anymore are things i buy or that are sent to me by the artist/label. which is why i'm hoping there's gold in them thar clouds for musicians somewhere down the line.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:36 (eleven years ago) link
I only d/l things that are either by old, rich and/or dead people, or out of print and otherwise unavailable. won't dl anything from current artists trying to make a living, just on principle. don't do subscription services either, cuz they don't pay us shit.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
yeah not really. reproduction and production of music don't happen for free (servers cost money! recording costs money! engineers cost money!) etc
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
spotify's sated my "everything i want, when i want it, now" internet urges, but good luck guilting me off a legal streaming service
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
I have avoided knowingly downloading free non-artist-sanctioned music without payment for a good... 8 years now; it's not really that difficult
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
Old people can be poor, Shakey.
― how's life, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
I know that, that's why I put "rich" after it. Like, I don't feel bad about d/l'ing Neil Young albums, for ex. I've given that dude a lot of money over the years, and he's already richer than god.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:43 (eleven years ago) link
yes hence why I said "reproduced" and not "produced". obviously someone has to pay some small amount for bandwidth or if they want to store it on a server but I'm saying that just copying data doesn't cost anything, hence why that analogy doesn't even worse on the simplest level
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:43 (eleven years ago) link
it works as an analogy because producing music - like food, shelter, or clothing - costs money, no matter how much you would like to think otherwise.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:44 (eleven years ago) link
The fact that costs are nominal or extremely spread does not mean they are nonexistent.
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
i don't plan to change anything but i've already mostly stopped downloading in favor of spotify so it doesn't matter much. i think i would pay as much as $30 a month for spotify before even considering going back to a Life of Crime, so $10 is a bargain
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
lol @ "no matter how much you would like to think otherwise", give me a break, I spend tons on this shit
you're still not understanding this very basic principle so I'm not really sure what to say. this is the same type of logic that leads the RIAA to sue teenagers for six-figure amounts. if I still all your food or clothes and throw it away, then you're cold and hungry. if I downloaded all your albums and didn't listen to them, literally nothing would change
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
ok obviously that should be *steal*
Speaking as a musician, I blame Spotify users more than casual downloaders for the shitty state of the music industry.
― emil.y, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
I mean does frogbs really think that Megaupload's operating costs were $0? Or that the costs of all nodes of a bittorrent transfer sum to $0? Because . . . no.
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
if I still all your food or clothes and throw it away, then you're cold and hungry. if I downloaded all your albums and didn't listen to them, literally nothing would change
wait what? did I make all my own food and clothing in this scenario, in addition to all my albums? I don't understand.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
xp i don't. i'm not talking about transferring data, i'm just talking about copying it.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:52 (eleven years ago) link
keep digging
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
does it matter?
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
i mean clearly you're going to do your best to misinterpret a pretty simple concept in order to get more lame digs on me, what's the point of arguing if you don't understand why you can't stream a pancake
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
Oh, I get it, he's assuming away input costs. OK. But then he's also assuming away opportunity costs, e.g., an artist saying, "Well, I could record this new song or album, but given that a bunch of knobs on the internet are just going to download it without paying, I could also just take an extra shift at the print shop and actually make money."
xp i'm not talking about transferring data, i'm just talking about copying it.
what is this i don't even
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:54 (eleven years ago) link
I can stream a pancake but I have to eat it first
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
Transferring is copying. Copying is transferring. Opportunity costs are real costs. Every MB of a hard drive taken up by music you copied from CDs at the library is an MB that can't be allotted to something else. This is simple shit, here.
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
this thread is a lot more fun after i gave up caring and just decided to watch shakey and frogbs and iatee circle around each in a festive dance of faulty logic and useless generalizations
― Planned Perrintweet (some dude), Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:47 PM (5 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not talking about transferring data, i'm just talking about copying it.
god this is so fucking stupid. it's like you think the only point at which money was required in the music industry is at the point of sale of a physical product. But when you bought an album you weren't just paying for the physical costs of pressing and distributing an album, you were paying for the engineers, for the studio time, for the gear used, for the time the artist spent writing and creating the material, for the promotional costs, etc etc. This is because the purchase of the physical product was the most reliable point in the chain of music created -> you listening to it from which to extract financial compensation. Now that that's gone, there is NO point in the chain through which the musician can financially recoup their expenses for creating a piece of recorded work.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:57 (eleven years ago) link
I might use the time to finally get Spotify.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:58 (eleven years ago) link
I can't really roll with Spotify except as a previewing service for what I might wanna buy/which tracks I wanna cherry-pick. Spotify just sounds really bad a lot of the time. Like markedly worse than a 192 bit MP3. I think it might be a label by label thing in how they supply their digital files or something. Listen to for ex 'My Old School' on Spotify. The backing singers sound really really weird. Same for lots of classical music and film scores on there.
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
(disregard the above if the paid service gives you a higher stream quality or w/e)
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I already got it. it doesn't *literally* cost nothing but it's not exactly related to the initial cost of production. with a physical good, the cost to buy is very related to the cost of production. whether you spend $200 or $2000000 on producing an album it's going to cost the same amount to distribute a copy to someone else. got it?
But then he's also assuming away opportunity costs, e.g., an artist saying, "Well, I could record this new song or album, but given that a bunch of knobs on the internet are just going to download it without paying, I could also just take an extra shift at the print shop and actually make money."
exactly. I'm not saying this is going away. I never said that artists don't have to spend money to make recordings. Just that the analogy doesn't make sense and we've all bagged on the RIAA for years and years for assuming it does.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
I don't bother with spotify because - like EVERY other streaming service before it - it's catalog is woefully incomplete. and yeah then there is the payment thing.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
about half of my pre-iPod listening time was on cassettes and car radios so i'd be totally fronting if i said i ever think about or mind the fidelity or mp3s or streams, even if i notice the difference.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
with a physical good, the cost to buy is very related to the cost of production.
lol in what universe
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
some dude OTM
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
like I get that's how it's supposed to work in Econ Theory 101 but in the real world that is just not the case
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:03 (eleven years ago) link
god this is so fucking stupid. it's like you think the only point at which money was required in the music industry is at the point of sale of a physical product.
yeah I stopped reading here because you're putting a lot of words in my mouth. you really think I don't know it takes money to create the music? what I'm saying is there's a difference between a product that costs you $5 to make and distribute vs. a product that costs $10000 to make but $0 (okay, a few cents) to distribute. say you sell each for $10. if Product A sells 50,000 but you get 50,000 stolen, you broke even and that sucks. if you sell 50,000 of Product B then you made $40,000 regardless of how many are stolen. get it?
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:05 (eleven years ago) link
*sigh*
backing away slowly
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:06 (eleven years ago) link
IMO bitching about a streaming service having an incomplete catalog makes absolutely no sense; would you expect a single record label to release every album you've ever wanted to hear, from the past to the present? If not, why would you expect that of a streaming service? Even paid television subdivides into packages and different carriers may offer different channels. Neither Hulu nor Netflix has every television show or movie ever made available for physical rental, let alone download. It's a wholly unrealistic expectation; the question shouldn't be "do they have EVERYTHING?", it should be "do I like enough of what they have?"
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:06 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
this is my favorite part of the festive dance!
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
yeah well that answer (in my case) is no
lol some dude
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:06 PM
lol, this was me yesterday on the Zappa thread when he showed up
xp hahaha
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
dude WmC you were bitching about something I *didn't even write*! cmon man
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
I don't get it why do people constantly mock the RIAA for using this type of bad logic yet champion our posters around here that do the same? This place is weird
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:16 (eleven years ago) link
You instantly misread my criticism of the quote you pulled by that critic, and in general your posts have the logical and rhetorical rigor of a pile of wet spaghetti, so there was no need for me to carry on with you in that thread, and the same thing is happening here. xp
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.v-r-a.org/ppp/MJFrog/MJF1.gif
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
when I want to listen to obscurities I don't own I sequence a bunch of YouTube clips together. Is it any worse than paying for Spotify?
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
yeah WmC I admit that part you pointed out might imply something you didn't like but I don't see how A) asking you to read the whole fucking thing or B) asking why you're obsessing over such a minor point represents "the logical and rhetorical rigor of a pile of wet spaghetti"
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
but seriously if you have anything to say w/r/t the similarity of the economics of physical and digital goods, I'm all ears, otherwise I'm glad you felt the need to come on this thread just to be a prick about an unrelated topic
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
when I want to listen to obscurities I don't own
Acts that are not on Spotify obscurities like Royal Trux and De La Soul and Can ...?
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:20 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think the difference is you can pretend you own it a little better w/ spotify.
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
also you can play a whole album without clicking in between each song to find the best version.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
genuine q: do artists get royalty from Youtube plays? At least Spotify pays a royalty, however pitiful that might be.
― Arvo Pärt Chimp (Neil S), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
"royalties" in first sentence above obv
genuine q: do artists get royalty from Youtube plays?
If the uploader "claims" the video, they get paid when it plays.
― 誤訳侮辱, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
okay, thanks.
― Arvo Pärt Chimp (Neil S), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
well how much do they really make? I mean I read that Rebecca Black apparently made a ton of $$$ but how much does your average say Field Music-level band made?
ultimately this seems like the best way to pay artists (in addition to album sales, which I don't think will go away completely) but I'm guessing Spotify ad revenue is just a drop in the bucket (not that iTunes pays them much more!)
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:41 (eleven years ago) link
this is out of left field but i keep thinking about the power of the idea that carrier is different from content. i think it's basically what made the record industry possible and now it's what is killing the record industry. and it's like, a lie. carrier just gets endlessly outsourced and fractured into new industries and you pay for it w/ your phone bill or whatever. more fingers in the pie, less for everyone? idk.
anyway i'm with the fidelity/physical object geeks for the most part. there still isn't a way to get cassette-quality music for free. if there was, i'd be all over that.
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:42 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2010/how-much-do-music-artists-earn-online/
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
― frogbs, Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:41 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark
note these numbers:
By March 21, 2011, the "Friday" music video had been viewed more than 30 million times on YouTube.[50] Forbes estimated that as of that date, Black and ARK Music had earned $20,000 from YouTube's revenue-sharing program,[51] and Billboard estimated iTunes sales of approximately 43,000 copies, roughly equivalent to $26,700 in royalties.[52]
40k in iTunes sales yielded roughly the same amount of money as 30 million YouTube views, so the ratio is roughly 1000 to 1 in terms of iTunes vs. YouTube
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
i think it's funny that everyone became such an expert about major label contracts, royalty rates, merch sales, touring income, and like ~the nature of what ownership of information even is, man~ right about the time they could download a music for free
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
well how much do they really make?
I don't have hard numbers in front of me (and wouldn't share them if I did), but where I work, YouTube streams generate a significant revenue stream. To give you an example, Nickelback's video for "When We Stand Together" has been viewed over 56 million times. Even if we get paid a tenth of a penny a play, that's a lot of money.
― 誤訳侮辱, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
not really. you think that's a fair price? a tenth of a penny? for one play?
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
$56,000 isn't a lot of money?
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
it is nickelback though
― it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
woah i didn't know the nickelback dude posted here
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:14 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i mean, a dollar for every thousand views, or a thousand dollars for every million views, that seems pretty decent.
we are talking, after all, about a site where you can click it over and over to up your views, and nobody pays to watch anything. advertising can only generate so much revenue.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:16 (eleven years ago) link
I run Roadrunner Records' website.
― 誤訳侮辱, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:19 (eleven years ago) link
the fact that the artist gets only 9 cents per iTunes download is ridiculous
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:20 (eleven years ago) link
...if you don't mind my asking, how many employees are left at Roadrunner now anyway?
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:20 (eleven years ago) link
where did that statistic come from? (xpost)
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
mr. que's link up there
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
― 誤訳侮辱, Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:19 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
haha i figured it was a typo...are they on roadrunner now?
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:25 (eleven years ago) link
They've always been on there, I think?
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:26 (eleven years ago) link
A really loose, off-the-top-of-my-head count yields about 40 in the New York office, with a few other people still floating around in other parts of the world (Canada, Australia).
are they on roadrunner now?
Nickelback have been on Roadrunner for almost their entire career (their first album was originally independently released in Canada).
― 誤訳侮辱, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:27 (eleven years ago) link
xps that chart is a little bit misleading as it only tallies the royalties paid to the artist rather than the writer + also publisher of the song, which is where a more significant amount of royalty money goes - in the US at least, afaik. But i'm sure the relative scale of it is probably accurate enough that the point its making isn't lost
― sleepingbag, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:28 (eleven years ago) link
it looks like a DIY artist self-releasing an mp3 gets 57 cents out of a 99 cent song purchase according to that graph, though. of course signed acts are gonna lose most of that money to the label. (xpost)
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:30 (eleven years ago) link
the internet made it easier to download songs around the same time it made it easier to read that steve albini piece
― da croupier, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:34 (eleven years ago) link
lol I was gonna call that out too but decided against it
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
Did you?
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:39 (eleven years ago) link
Let's see, divide that by 4 for each band member, take away taxes. So an optimistic royalty for having the most popular video on youtube as a concert act is probably less than poverty level wages.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:43 (eleven years ago) link
does Nickelback really split songwriting royalties four ways...?
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
xp Like that's their only income stream. "We'll put this video on YouTube and before you know it we'll be damn hell ass kings!"
Also they're Canuckian so that's like, 10 million loonies, right?
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know why don't you ask them.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
It DOES?
This is where I'm 100% pro-file sharing and 100% against mega-million dollar for-profit ad sites like Spotify and Youtube.
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
Mr. Que OTM with that info thing. I feel like every time i come to this page i want to relink it.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
So an optimistic royalty for having the most popular video on youtube as a concert act is probably less than poverty level wages.
Well you add in Spotify, last.fm, album sales, ticket sales, bumper stickers, T-shirts...
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
well i guess it depends how much YouTube is making off each view. how much more can it be? there's no way they're clocking like 50 cents a view or something.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
i would pay a lot more for spotify. if the catalogue was extended further i'd pay A LOT more
― hardhouse banter (tpp), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:50 (eleven years ago) link
^^^^ what i'm saying. they're like the only monthly expense of mine that i think "yes, please, ask for more money, i'm getting way too good a deal here!"
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
^^^i would too, but until they pay their artists more, i won't.
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
well yeah, obv under that condition
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
it still blows my mind that Spotify is free
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
...minus studio time, mastering, producer fees, booking/promotional fees, ticket master's cut, etc...
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:56 (eleven years ago) link
sorry, Live Nation
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
man, spotify is basically useless to me. blocked at work, and i mostly listen to music on an ipod in the car anyway. but i get that most people are fine with streaming and often won't even download something for free as long as they can keep streaming it whenever they want.
― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
― moley, Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:37 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― moley, Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:43 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
hey moley! you're a calmer man than I for being able to parse that Lefsetz post without taking it personally, and you're certainly right that there's a lot of constructive, hard line truths in there amid the insults. but when you think of music strictly in terms of economic solutions, it can only lead to this guy's unironic summary of the moral crisis with downloading: 'The Artists are the problem'. And... well... I've just never heard the industry's point of view summed up more honestly or succinctly than that, so I posted before calming down
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:56 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark
everyone knows you have to spend money to make money but why are we pretending that Nickelback (or any act with 50+ million YT views for a non-meme music video) isn't operating at a profit?
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
Cos those dude keep asking me for change.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:08 (eleven years ago) link
Armageddon....commence please
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:09 (eleven years ago) link
There's a longstanding view in pop culture that famous = rich which isn't necessarily true. And now that you can be youtube famous, I'm pretty sure it's even less true.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:10 (eleven years ago) link
Snarf:
https://twitter.com/TheRealYLT/status/214817390339428352
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:10 (eleven years ago) link
Plenty of people believe that if you are on pitchfork or in Spin it automatically means someone is sending you 10k checks every week.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
right, yes. but YouTube is just another tool for getting famous or letting people hear your work once you have an audience. anyone who's going broke because YT doesn't give them a dollar per view wasn't gonna get rich anyway.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:13 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/rock-stars/chad-kroeger-net-worth/
Chad Kroeger was born in Canada and has an estimated net worth of $50 million dollars.
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:14 (eleven years ago) link
i mean love em or hate em, Pomplamoose have proven that you can make bank off of this web 2.0 bullshit if you're savvy about it (xpost)
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:14 (eleven years ago) link
I wonder what Nickelback's drummer is netting?
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:14 (eleven years ago) link
Cause Chad is getting coin from mechanical royalties.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
yeah this weird, persistent, and largely inflated myth of the "rock star" lifestyle is pretty insidiously embedded in the average pop-culture consumer's mind.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.chacha.com/question/what-is-nickelback%27s-net-worth
Q: What is Nickelback's net worth?A: That is unknown but they are negotiating a new deal worth $70 million, for 3 albums & 3 tours. ChaCha on!
A: That is unknown but they are negotiating a new deal worth $70 million, for 3 albums & 3 tours. ChaCha on!
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
haha i think everyone knows that there are famous musicians who aren't rich, but for some reason this tangent happened while we were talking about probably one of the single richest newly minted rock stars of the 21st century
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:17 (eleven years ago) link
...about that ChaCha part.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
i heard a radio interview with Kroeger recently where the interviewer hit him with the trivia that Nickelback are apparently the 2nd-biggest selling foreign band in the US of all time, after The Beatles
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
I mean, I can concern troll with the best of them but worrying that Nickelback isn't making enough money is next level
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
if the future is streaming instead of ownership of media, then what would a fair price be to stream a track/album once? how do we go about calculating this? does a microtransaction model work or is the 'all you can eat' model of spotify the only thing people will pay for?
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
clearly their problem is they aren't making enough music
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
Well music isn't like movies, people like to have it on in the background so anything that encourages people to listen to less probably wouldn't work...I would think the Spotify model is best
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
xpost Nickelback has outsold AC/DC?
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
that wouldn't surprise me at all
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
they were probably factoring singles or something in there -- looks like AC/DC has sold about 70 million albums in America whereas N'back stand at about 20 mil
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:30 (eleven years ago) link
otoh Nickelback doesn't even appear here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists_in_the_United_States
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:31 (eleven years ago) link
waiting for the first ILXer to do the Pauline Kael-on-Nixon moment ("No one I know listens to or owns any Nickleback").
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:32 (eleven years ago) link
I must have some relatives who do...
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:33 (eleven years ago) link
i worked with someone who was a pretty serious nickelback fan. like, she knew the name of the drummer.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
Nickelback is one of the most commercially successful Canadian groups, having sold more than 50 million albums worldwide,[3] ranking as the 11th best selling music act of the 2000s, and is the 2nd best selling foreign act in the U.S. behind The Beatles for the 2000s.[4][5]
ok the DJ glossed over the "for the 2000s" caveat, my bad for not checking before repeating it. but still!
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
If people have the incentive to download, to use file-sharing etc. they will. Until you change that incentive it won't change the habits of most users.
I do like how ten years removed from Napster and we're still loling at NPR articles where Kids Who Download are given a blue book and asked "What does fairness mean to you?" and "What role do you think an artist plays in a Late Capitalist society?"
and NPR is f course still stunned to find out that people don't care who is getting ripped off because free music is pretty righteous, Mr NPR Man.
― Cunga, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
― ciderpress, Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:20 PM (11 minutes ago)
I think people are still bugged about the "they only pay 0.00000005 cents per stream" scare, but every industry thing I read about it suggests that it's something like, I don't know, a third of a penny per stream now? At least for major labels? You would certainly think that giant companies like Universal have managed to negotiate decent deals by now.
Anyway, using the ten-track album example, an album played ten times by 30,000 users (over time, of course) generates $10,000 in royalties at the third of a penny rate.
― timellison, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
LOL, btw, of NPR of all outlets playing even a peripheral role in a debate about paying or not paying for content, seeing as it's entirely supported by donations and a modicum of taxes.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
would also like to point out that performance royalties drive a lot of revenue if the performer is a songwriter, especially if they get their music into TV/films. I imagine the guys who did the friends theme song never had to work another day in their life. not sure where that leaves nickelback's drummer.
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
i've been in the offices/studios of our local NPR branch (mpls which is in fairness a fairly large and money making NPR branch) and i also co-host a show on the local Clear Channel sports talk station here....NPR has suuuuch fancy and awesome facilities compared to the "commercial" radio station
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 20:46 (eleven years ago) link
you realize that when people donate to NPR, they are essentially paying for content, right?
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
Sure. But there's no price being put on it, per se. You also don't have to pay (or listen to ads that pay for you). I wonder if NPR was a subscription model how many people would pay.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 21:09 (eleven years ago) link
I guess I'm confused as to why you think they can't play a role in the debate, just because of how they make their $$
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
Not to the extent of commercial radio, but public radio has plenty of "(show) is underwritten by (advertiser), makers of fine (crap)" messages!
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
Via Maura on Twitter:
the one thing that stuck out to me in the emily white piece was the college radio station's library going digital. that made me sad. where will all the heated debates about records' merit go? in the mp3's id3 tag?
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
Re: Nickelback's drummer - isn't he that guy with the two arms?
― StanM, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
I wonder if NPR was a subscription model how many people would pay.
"If you want NPR you should have to pay for it yrself, instead of getting this music sharing service for free at the expense of other people" would be an amazing troll session to do on All Things Considered.
― Cunga, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
confuse NPR with Slsk numerous times on air.
― Cunga, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
Never said this. Just thought it funny that this debate was sparked in part by NPR.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:01 (eleven years ago) link
Do NPR bumpers generate mechanical royalties?
Will Sheff and Carl Newman also discussing this on Twitter at some length. What's amazing is the number of people telling artists on Twitter LOL YOU SUCK ANYWAY.
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
"your music should be free because its terrible imo"
― Cunga, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:19 (eleven years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:01 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i could double check but i think i was told by a guy that put out my band's record that NPR has some clause that says it doesn't have to pay into BMI or ASCAP
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:23 (eleven years ago) link
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:13 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark
i'm enjoying the chatter on beauty pill's twitter
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:24 (eleven years ago) link
frogbs should read that feed.
@nathanleighsays I love making music, but I'm not that concerned about releasing it anymore.4 hours ago@nathanleighsays To be clear, I feel no hope. You notice I have not put out a record, right?
@nathanleighsays To be clear, I feel no hope. You notice I have not put out a record, right?
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:36 (eleven years ago) link
couldn't they make records instead of wasting time delineating the collapse of their idealism
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:37 (eleven years ago) link
I'm waiting for the "you wouldn't steal a car" tweet
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:40 (eleven years ago) link
And now...Travis Morrison!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/travis-morrison/hey-dude-from-cracker-im_b_1610557.html
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
lmao at morrison calling him "dude from cracker" as if he'll be better remembered
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:01 (eleven years ago) link
Hey frogbs Morrison thinks downloading is pretty much just like the shoplifting he did as a kid. You'd better get over there and set him straight.
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:03 (eleven years ago) link
that is a sad piece. it's funny how he lists all these methods for stealing music that actually involved people paying the artists or buying the product somewhere along the line (ie, taping other people's purchased copies, taping things off the radio, etc.)
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:05 (eleven years ago) link
as opposed to today, where a leaked promo copy means nobody pays for it at any point
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:06 (eleven years ago) link
Taping things off the radio was "stealing music?"
― timellison, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:07 (eleven years ago) link
is William & Mary really the place where intelligent grinder kids go
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
Travis Morrison
Director of Commercial Production, The Huffington Post
dude you should read RS and Billboard in the early eighties. The labels were obsessed with this point.
I don't remember much hubbub about it growing up apart from U.K. record inner sleeves that had the cassette with the skull and cross bones.
― timellison, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:10 (eleven years ago) link
i remember all the home taping is killing music stuff growing up in the uk
― it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
I def remember that, but it was more about dubbing cassettes, not necessarily restricted to radio iirc
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:15 (eleven years ago) link
of course then they invented the CD boondoggle
which ended up completely fucking them so, hey it all worked out!
Marketing: "Hey! We can charge DOUBLE for this new format. It's DIGITAL, so it's better!"
Technology: "What about copying CDs? A digital media can theoretically be digitally copied pretty quickly..."
Marketing: "What part of CHARGE DOUBLE was unclear to you, pinhead?"
Technology: "Pretty quickly. That's all I'm saying."
Marketing: "Copy SIX HUNDRED AND FORTY MEGABYTES? Whatever a megabyte is, that's big, right? Dude, my pee cee only uses floppies!"
Technology: "I'm going to lunch now."
Marketing: "In your FACE! CHARGE DOUBLE! WOOOOOOO!" /fistpump
― Matt M., Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:26 (eleven years ago) link
basically
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
I didn't add the five years later of: "Marketing: HALP ME RIAA! YOU'RE MY ONLY HOPE!" Thought it was overkill.
― Matt M., Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
Can't copy a vinyl. They should have stuck to something you couldn't put in your computer.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:32 (eleven years ago) link
the cd biz started long before your average american family had a pc
― iatee, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:34 (eleven years ago) link
well the vinyl/home taping thing had them freaked, but there was no way to do that QUICKLY, which was the real reason it didn't hurt their sales too much. digital copying magnified the scale of the problem exponentially.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:35 (eleven years ago) link
i was looking at early 80s Billboards and every other article was about a special tax on blank cassettes or whatever.
― President Keyes, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:38 (eleven years ago) link
And anyone who didn't see PCs in every house coming wasn't looking.
― Matt M., Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:39 (eleven years ago) link
yeah well that's like 98% of the american population in the 1980s
― iatee, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:40 (eleven years ago) link
the problem isn't that the record industry decided to go digital, the problem is that music can be digitalized
even if they had a top team of futurists being like "no dudes, just don't make CDs" it would just add one not-so-complicated step to the bootlegging process
― iatee, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:42 (eleven years ago) link
Does anyone have any vintage record catalogs? I want to see the prices for music in the 80's. I sort of remember CDs being a big price gouge compared to vinyl.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:43 (eleven years ago) link
Cheap blank CDs accelerated the process over here, I think. I remember mentioning in a zine in the mid/late 90s what I was paying for a spindle of blanks, and a friend in Ireland was very tempted to have me buy him one and ship it over there.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think he would steal a car
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:48 (eleven years ago) link
Oh yeah, albums went from $8.99 vinyl to $15.99 CD just like that -- really put a cramp in my style.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:49 (eleven years ago) link
Does anyone have any vintage record catalogs? I want to see the prices for music in the 80's. I sort of remember CDs being a big price gouge compared to vinl
http://cdn100.iofferphoto.com/img/item/199/643/608/rolling-stone-magazine-tom-petty-348-1981-4a063.JPG
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:49 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not sure why this didn't happen in the late 90's early 00's with CD burners and blank discs - IIRC Canada tried something like that and it seemed to work okay. I mean blank discs were always pretty cheap (though the burners used to be insanely pricey)
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:49 (eleven years ago) link
I remember in 1990 cassettes being as low as $5 or $6.99 in most retail outlets and CD's at $10.99
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
discs can store multiple media
cassettes can only store sound
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:51 (eleven years ago) link
I'm a fetishist for chronology, especially other people's, so I'd like to know when most of you stopped buying tapes and switched exclusively to CD's. I bought my last cassingle in 1999 and burned my first CD in early 2000. Keep in mind: when a friend burned a Bob Marley album for another in early '99 I had no idea what "burned" meant or how he got this technology.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:51 (eleven years ago) link
I think you guys are ignoring the fact that CDs were seen as being an improvement on a number of scores: no surface noise, more durable, portable but higher fidelity than cassette, able to be used in portable/car eqipment, easy shipping to the track you wanted, programmable & repeat functions
I mean I'm love vinyl but lets not ignore facts...at first, it's very possible, in the very early days, that production costs of a new optical disc technology would have been higher than vinyl or cassettes
You're acting like this was some kind of out and out scam to charge more for music
People myself included thought CDs were amazing
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
Burning CDs was prohibitively expensive for me until after 2000 or so
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:53 (eleven years ago) link
no surface noiseokay sure, if you didn't have a high-quality dubbing setup or whatever.
more durableno
portable but higher fidelity than cassette
I... guess?
able to be used in portable/car eqipment
cassettes do this
easy shipping to the track you wanted, programmable & repeat functions
okay yeah those were HUGE
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:54 (eleven years ago) link
Tapes used to store digits, but would be a pretty horrible way to store digitized sound, if you even had access to a digitizer at the time. (First one I saw was in 1988 or 89 on a Mac. MacRecorder, if memory serves.)
― Matt M., Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:55 (eleven years ago) link
And sure, the sound quality of CDs was highly touted back in the day. Portability too, to some degree.
Forgot all about the shufflability. IIRC, some artists didn't like that because the user could rearrange track orders or *gasp* skip tracks. Nonlinear listening introduced to a big audience.
― Matt M., Tuesday, 19 June 2012 23:57 (eleven years ago) link
I'm a fetishist for chronology, especially other people's, so I'd like to know when most of you stopped buying tapes and switched exclusively to CD's.
I kept buying cassettes until I got my first iPod in 2004 or so. I was always more into portability and Discmans were far harder to fit in my pocket than Walkmans. Of course, after 2001 or so I was mostly buying used tapes, since they stopped putting a lot of things on cassette.
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:06 (eleven years ago) link
i hoard sealed high bias cassettes like crazy. always on the lookout. still my duplication medium of chance. i have never burned a cd but i wouldn't mind if someone burned them all.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:07 (eleven years ago) link
Bought my first CD in 1986 (lol Songs from Liquid Days) but they were so freaking expensive! I didn't really start accumulating them until 1992-1993, when I all but quit reading comics and had more money to spend on them. There was an intermediate time in the late 80s when I wasn't buying much music at all -- didn't want to buy vinyl because it seemed like the format was dying, wasn't whole hog invested in CDs yet.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:24 (eleven years ago) link
Bought Michael Penn's March on CD in early '90 -- a move that infuriated Mom. "A 15-year-old boy on your allowance has no reason to buy something this expensive!"
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:26 (eleven years ago) link
Eric Harvey aka marathonpacks sez:
Seriously *shocked* that no one's pointed out yet that David Lowery's understanding of music copyright/economics is factually incorrect.
Asked for details, sez more will be forthcoming.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:29 (eleven years ago) link
I imagine the guys who did the friends theme song never had to work another day in their life
I think that song had a zillion co-writers though - one of whom ended up being part of The Matrix production group. I remember that R.E.M. and Natalie Merchant turned the song down.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
Stopped buying LPs and went to CDs in 1987. Stopped buying CDs and went all-download a couple years ago.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:37 (eleven years ago) link
Now in place: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:40 (eleven years ago) link
LPs to cassettes in '84 (i should say, my parents started buying me cassettes in '84)cassettes to CDs in '90began acquiring LPs again in '93the internet opened up music awhile ago and
http://www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/webminutes.jpg
― omar little, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:41 (eleven years ago) link
Also in the news recently: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120601/07161319164/germany-increases-you-are-all-pirates-tax-solid-state-media-2000.shtml
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:45 (eleven years ago) link
This truly is the medium of the King of Kings.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:49 (eleven years ago) link
morrison def seems like he'd be a cooler dad than lowery
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 00:59 (eleven years ago) link
I'm starting to believe that a $100 piracy tax on all computers and mobile phones is worthy enough just so Lowery, Emily from NPR, Lefsetz, etc. etc. will stop writing opinion pieces.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:05 (eleven years ago) link
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:51 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark
i drove a car with a tape deck and no CD player until 2005, so up until maybe a couple years before that i bought tapes occasionally, and all through that time and for a bit after i very frequently bought blank cassettes and made personalized mixtapes.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:07 (eleven years ago) link
guys this debate is just obscuring the core issue, which is that the government should be paying for everybody's food, shelter, and healthcare.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:08 (eleven years ago) link
I mean I'm love vinyl but lets not ignore facts...at first, it's very possible, in the very early days, that production costs of a new optical disc technology would have been higher than vinyl or cassettes― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:52 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:52 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
CDs were absolutely more expensive to make in the early 80s than were vinyl and cassette, mostly due to the lack of CD manufacturers at the time. But as the production costs became much cheaper (sometime in the early 90s) the CDs got more expensive; that and the decision to stop selling cd singles in the late 90s only sped up their inevitable demise.
― musicfanatic, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:10 (eleven years ago) link
xpost -- Don't be silly. I want YOU to pay for it. (I am simple.)
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:11 (eleven years ago) link
I never did have a prerecorded cassettes phase. I think I bought one or two, and both of those were $1.99 cutout bin items. Mixtapes and taping borrowed albums, yeah, loads of those.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:18 (eleven years ago) link
Pretty much vinyl from birth on through the late eighties. I had a very small amount of cassettes as gifts, then I got my first CD player in 1988 after our family got on at the end of 1987 and I was off to the races, didn't buy another vinyl release at all since then, really. (The few exceptions have been limited press things that bands had at spots like Terrastock where I wanted to make sure the groups in question got some money from me somehow and didn't have anything other than vinyl to sell.)
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:21 (eleven years ago) link
aww you guys can totally picture baby ned with his first fisher price turntable right
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:24 (eleven years ago) link
first one I played on mine was Mickey Mouse Disco
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:28 (eleven years ago) link
I remember the prerecorded cassettes phase ('87-'94 for me) with fondness and then I turn one up in a drawer and I'm like what the hell am I supposed to do with this now and then I play it usually
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:39 (eleven years ago) link
I believe the last Terrastock was the last time I bought a new CD. I've bought a little bit of new vinyl since, but mostly if there is a code/coupon for electronic download versions.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:40 (eleven years ago) link
That is in fact exactly what I had. (Early albums including something featuring Popeye, Peter and the Wolf/Sorcerer's Apprentice, several Sesame Street albums, Sing! and Free to Be...You And Me.)
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:44 (eleven years ago) link
Really should've kept the turntable, it played 78s.
Oh and also this amazing thing, which I did finally rip some years ago.
http://recordrobot.blogspot.com/2008/12/excuse-me-your-excused.html
(Someone else did this entry -- mp3s no longer working, sadly.)
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:46 (eleven years ago) link
Guy who did that was apparently the forgotten god of kiddie records in the mid-20th century:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luther
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 01:47 (eleven years ago) link
and who recorded 'happy the harmonica', which was covered by negativland, sworn enemies of the RIAA
full circle
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 02:01 (eleven years ago) link
Brilliant!
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 02:02 (eleven years ago) link
Actually having just relistened to ol' Frank there, I have some questions. Sample lyrics:
When we breathe in germsFrom people who sneezeWhen we get soaked And wet to our kneesWhen we sit in draftsTill we're chilled and coldAnd we don't change our wet clothesAs soon as we're toldWhen we stay close to peopleWho sneeze and coughWhen we play out in the rainWith our rubbers offThat's how we can get a coldThat's how we can get a coldWhen we feel hotWhen we feel funnyWhen we sneeze and coughAnd our nose gets runnyWe remember what the doctor saidWe take off our clothes and go to bed!
When we sit in draftsTill we're chilled and coldAnd we don't change our wet clothesAs soon as we're told
When we stay close to peopleWho sneeze and coughWhen we play out in the rainWith our rubbers off
That's how we can get a coldThat's how we can get a cold
When we feel hotWhen we feel funnyWhen we sneeze and coughAnd our nose gets runny
We remember what the doctor saidWe take off our clothes and go to bed!
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 02:29 (eleven years ago) link
Keep in mind this is all being cheerily sung by a guy with big band backing.
not grindr
Bought my first record with my own money in 1986 (as opposed to being given Sesame St albums or asking for novelty song compilations or whatever) – first cassette later the same year.We got a CD player in 1989 and I only bought one cassette after that: either Raw Like Sushi or 3 Feet High And Rising; first CD was What’s That Noise?Last new pre-recorded cassette bought in any way was probably Fatboy Slim’s Beat Up The NME, on the cover of the Ladies & Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space ish in 1997 - had to get an import copy over the odds for this, as tapes weren't included on sea-shipped copies.Got a CD burner (external) in 2003. Was probably still buying blank cassettes for a year or two after that, for taping interviews and DJ mixes and concerts and sessions off the radio.2011 was, unless I’m forgetting something, the first year I’ve not bought a new vinyl record at all. (Haven’t had a turntable since September 2007, though – probably haven’t bought a second-hand record since 07 or even 06.)Still buy new and second-hand CDs, but have been actively trying to cut down for several years now – I have unlistened ones going back to 2002.
― the hat's filthy lesson (sic), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 03:19 (eleven years ago) link
I have unlistened ones going back to 2002.
i have unlistened-to vinyl dating back to '99 :( that was officially when i was buying way too many records
― tempus fuggerit (electricsound), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 03:21 (eleven years ago) link
oh yeah I probably have unlistened 2nd-hand vinyl from around then, the local-est second-hand shop had a 6 for $10 floor and yer Shadows and Koalas and Vadims and whatnot would get taken there on digging trips
"I'm sure I'd like to listen to this some decade in the future, better buy it on this cumbersome format now"
― the hat's filthy lesson (sic), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 03:44 (eleven years ago) link
I think the last new tape I bought was New Adventures In Hi-Fi
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 03:46 (eleven years ago) link
still dubbed stuff to tape well into 2002, 2003 though, 2004 is when I finally got a CD burner
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 03:47 (eleven years ago) link
i bought a new tape last week (6th this year) but that was the only way to get the download code
― tempus fuggerit (electricsound), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 03:54 (eleven years ago) link
Like how can there possibly be a creative class if people have to pay $500 for herpes medication― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Tuesday, June 19, 2012
likely the most important, overlooked post on this whole thread
― Authorities don't know who shot the 50 Cent the goose. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 03:59 (eleven years ago) link
One noteworthy milestone for CD duping, imo, was OS X and its multitasking ability. It was a pain to assemble tracks or dupe CDs up through System 9, when you couldn't burn a disc in the background.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 04:02 (eleven years ago) link
First CD I bought was Fear of a Black Planet
Converted to cds then, though did keep buying tapes, mostly radio stuff, because my car stereo was tapes
Been considering tracking down a cassette deck because of all this underground shit that comes out on tape now
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 04:02 (eleven years ago) link
First tape I recorded at a friend's house (from her records): C-90-A Thriller, C-90-B 1984First 45 I bought: El DeBarge "Who's Johnny"First tape I bought: Heart - s/tFirst cd(s) I bought: Curve - Doppelganger, Cowboy Junkies - The Trinity Session, Shakespear's Sister - Hormonally Yours (all at the same time)
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 06:14 (eleven years ago) link
I see ivy league college students trying to stroll into warehouse shows without paying the cover, or folks who "love this band" but spend more on their beer tab than they do at the merch table cuz they'll just download that shit later. that's not to say those ppl are disgusting savages, but maybe they just don't get the connection between that $5 cover or $10 CD and the $100 in gas the band needs to get to the next show. explaining those dependencies can sound patronizing or badgering, but it's as much of a reality as "tip your bartender"
seriously otm - i spent years dealing with this - i can't count how many nights i had variants of this conversation:
hat-wearing bearded guy: uh, hey, this is where (band name) is playing?me: yeah, we're asking a 5 dollar coverhat-wearing bearded guy: oh. uh, i don't have any moneyme: *looks at beer HWBG has in plastic bag from liquor store* Oh?HWBG: Yeah, I don't have any money.me: You have no money? None? HWBG: Well, uh, I have 3 bucks?me: I'll let you in for 3 bucks.
and it's not just the bands that this negatively affects but the greater economy that supports bands: venues, independent distros and labels, sound engineers, designers, promo people, etc.
One underground act that has been around for well over a decade and doing diy tours for that long is considering quitting doing tours longer than a few days because even performing live isn't making enough to recoup the basic costs of touring, let alone the touring-income-making-up-for-lost-record-sales-income thing that was supposedly "the new reality."
― sarahell, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 07:50 (eleven years ago) link
It's like any 'where the money is' meme.
It gets over-run like a pack of twenty geese towards one guy with a few slices of bread in a bag. Yesterday. And some Swans.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 08:47 (eleven years ago) link
kenny g talking about stealing music
http://www.thewire.co.uk/articles/6445/
― Crackle Box, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 08:55 (eleven years ago) link
lol i was gonna say
― tempus fuggerit (electricsound), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 08:56 (eleven years ago) link
To which there was a long response by Chris Cutler which is what the Lowery piece reminded me of a lot
http://www.thewire.co.uk/articles/6715/
― gonna send him to outer space, to hug another face (NickB), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 09:00 (eleven years ago) link
oh yeah, I remember that Cutler piece - similar in tone too iirc
― sarahell, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 09:04 (eleven years ago) link
cranky old man you mean? not that I disagree with him though
― gonna send him to outer space, to hug another face (NickB), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 09:05 (eleven years ago) link
there's no way Sparklehorse fans are your traditional file-sharers imo, most Sparklehorse type fans i know are very much your always-buy-a-physical-copy types. and the likes of Spotify would only ADD to that fanbase.
― piscesx, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 09:45 (eleven years ago) link
just because you don't know people who've downloaded sparklehorse doesn't mean they don't exist.
― Jesu swept (ledge), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 09:50 (eleven years ago) link
oh i'm absolutely certain they do. hence the word 'most..' in the preceeding post.
― piscesx, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 09:55 (eleven years ago) link
I read that post as meaning "Attention Deficit Disorder" for some reason.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 10:04 (eleven years ago) link
what is the ratio of sparklehorse album downloads to phsyical purchases? how many of those downloads would have been purchases if there were no alternative? who knows ¯\(º_o)/¯ ?!?! but if albini is correct in saying these bands often thrived due to major label largesse then the point is moot anyway, downloading culture hurts everyone.
― Jesu swept (ledge), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 10:07 (eleven years ago) link
Epiphany No 2: One of the first things that struck me about Napster was how damn impure (read: eclectic) people’s tastes were. While browsing another user’s files, I was stunned to find John Cage MP3s alphabetically snuggled up next to, say, Mariah Carey files in the same directory. Everyone has guilty pleasures; however, never before had they been so exposed – and celebrated – so publicly.
dude go fuck yourself
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 11:07 (eleven years ago) link
you're offending a lot of people by dismissing Cage as a "guilty pleasure"
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 11:08 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno, I often dance along in secret to the etc...
― Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 11:11 (eleven years ago) link
Keep in mind: when a friend burned a Bob Marley album for another in early '99 I had no idea what "burned" meant or how he got this technology.
I kind of hope the Marley album in question was Burnin'.
― Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 11:53 (eleven years ago) link
I saved up for my first CD player in 1993 (first CD album bought: Now! 23) but carried on buying tapes alongside for the next few years as they usually worked out cheaper. Carried on listening to copied tapes for even longer - I had a big shelf of these while I was at university (through to 2002), ended up buying most of them on CD when I had enough money.
― Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 12:05 (eleven years ago) link
Last tape I bought was probably Pussy Galore's Right Now! in around 1988 cos I couldn't find it anywhere on vinyl. Hated buying pre-recorded tapes and think I only ever bought about 5 of them up until that point. Didn't buy a CD until Bob Mould's Workbook came out in 1989. Again, I couldn't find it on vinyl anywhere. Didn't have a CD player, I had to tape it on my dad's stereo. Somehow my purchases of new vinyl really slid off in the 90s and I totally switched over to CD. I can't really remember what the last new vinyl I bought was... Tortoise or Jim O'Rourke or some bullshit.
― gonna send him to outer space, to hug another face (NickB), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 12:21 (eleven years ago) link
when was the last time anyone actually bought a dismemberment plan or cracker cd in a store? 2001? since then there have probably been 20 million illegal dismemberment plan downloads and at least 7600 cracker downloads. you would feel like such a dork if you paid for a cracker song on itunes, wouldn't you?
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 12:23 (eleven years ago) link
i will never get over the fact that someone named Johnny Hickman was in a band called Cracker. hated that guy.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 12:26 (eleven years ago) link
i remember him mugging pretty atrociously on 120 Minutes, circa 1996.
― da croupier, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 12:31 (eleven years ago) link
ugh yeah i was reminded of that yesterday via facebook. i can't believe you can't watch the skinheads bowling video on youtube. my only use for david lowery. you can watch a reunited CVB perform the song in some weird park in front of four people in 2008 but you can't watch the video.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 12:36 (eleven years ago) link
wonder how rich travis would be if everyone that downloaded 'emergency and i' had actually bought a copy
― Crackle Box, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 12:37 (eleven years ago) link
1979/1980, first album: a TV-advertised comp called "Goofy Gold" that I convinced my parents to buy me, with a bonus side of haunted house sounds. (http://www.madmusic.com/album_details.aspx?AlbumID=7227)
1983, first album with my own money: "Thriller," bought at the local supermarket
Lots of taping off the radio in between, both on cassette and also my dad's giant 8-track reel-to-reel player.
First 45: Don't remember when, but it may have been J. Geils' "Freeze Frame/Flamethrower."
1986, first cassette: "Raising Hell," bought at the local department store.
Copied things from friends like crazy at this point. I had a cassette with Eddie Murphy's first comedy album on one side, and Zeppelin on the other. Had another fave with "Invisible Touch" on one side, and something incongruous on the other.
1987 first CD: "Momentary Lapse of Reason," gifted.
Thousands of LPs, cassettes and CDs later, I'm still struggling to divest myself, knowing that they are virtually worthless.
Loved the Napster era, when finding anything was a fun struggle. And I do remember, in search of Bjork or Aaliyah or "Kid A" or whatever, coming across folders with all three of those things, but also, you know, Limp Bizkit or whatever, and thinking, huh. But then I realized there were people who hoarded MP3s.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 12:37 (eleven years ago) link
"Loved the Napster era, when finding anything was a fun struggle."
yay, fun. struggle.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 12:45 (eleven years ago) link
i'll never forget those wild and wonderful days of soulseek. it was like living in a gold mining town in 1840. oh the times we had searching for gorillaz b-sides...kids today just can't understand how hard we struggled for our music.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 12:47 (eleven years ago) link
It took a lot of time and effort, dude. It wasn't like now, where you could find anything in a second. Which may in turn have cut down on the amount of downloading people did. If I wanted, I dunno, Gorillaz b-sides (hypothetically), it was search them out via Napster or literally never hear them short of shelling out for several import CD singles, if that was even possible.
But then, I've always been a collector, and especially back then viewed the stuff I could find online strictly as last-recourse supplement.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 12:56 (eleven years ago) link
Also, I went to Albania once, back in ... 1998, maybe? 1997? I was wearing a promotional Napster t-shirt one day, and I had so many people come up to me and spontaneously praise Napster, talking about how much of a music desert it was there otherwise, with literally no distribution. I took a tour of a I guess college radio station, and they were so elated to finally have access to stuff to play.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 12:58 (eleven years ago) link
The moral of 100% of "ALL MUSIC IS FREE, MAN" and "YOU NEED TO PAY THE ARTIST EVERY TIME, BRUH" arguments is "I'm a sanctimonious asshole"
― la musica de harry frogbs (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:03 (eleven years ago) link
Like the ethical/practical reality exists somewhere in the gray area between purchasing and stealing, but that's not gonna get HUFFPO FRONT PAEG
― la musica de harry frogbs (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:04 (eleven years ago) link
ethicz
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:08 (eleven years ago) link
Epiphany No 5: I don’t know about you, but I’ve lost my object fetish. But then again, I was never the type of collector who bought records for their cool covers: the music had to be great
mild irony to me that the guy copping the stance that codes as young/"getting it" is espousing this position, which strikes me as very conservative - why should the music take this position not just of primary focus (which is fine) but of exclusionary focus - this "sophisticated people aren't drawn in by cover art" is kinda grade-school snob
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:15 (eleven years ago) link
Gorillaz b-sides (hypothetically), it was search them out via Napster or literally never hear them short of shelling out for several import CD singles, if that was even possible.
I remember how for a couple months or so, right before Napster got shut down, there was a huge "block list" of unsearchable names so you had to figure out the "alternate spellings", for example Gorillaz was either Gorillas or Gorilaz, They Might Be Giants was They Must Be Giants or They Might B Giants (and half the songs weren't even by them), and Eminem was ridiculous, it was Emanem, but then that got blocked, Imenem got blocked, I think in the end you had to search Inemin or something, anyone who says downloading mp3s is easy just doesn't understand
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:16 (eleven years ago) link
you would feel like such a dork if you paid for a cracker song on itunes, wouldn't you?
I bought "Eurotrash Girl" on iTunes after the poll two weeks ago!
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:18 (eleven years ago) link
you must look like a dork
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:20 (eleven years ago) link
you would feel like such a dork if you paid for an uncle kracker song on itunes
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:27 (eleven years ago) link
Anyway didn't buy much music pre-1991 and then basically it was all CDs with a smattering of vinyl until 2010 when I lost my office/spare room to the child and the wife said "okay stop". Now I just check stuff out from the library and rip it with the very occasional download of a mixtape here or there and the even more occasional purchase. I haven't bought a non-children's book in the past year either.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:49 (eleven years ago) link
hahaha this guy should hire Emily at Google
"I haven't tried it for many years but when you go on a pirate website, you choose what you like; it downloads to the device of your choice and it will just work – and then when you have to jump through all these hoops [to buy legitimate content], the walls created are disincentives for people to buy," he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/15/web-freedom-threat-google-brin
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:54 (eleven years ago) link
Epiphany No 4: As a result, just like you, I stopped buying music. I used to be a record junkie. For years, I spent most of my free time hunting down discs in dusty corners of the world. I’ll never forget my honeymoon in Amsterdam in 1989. I had to purchase an extra suitcase so that I could bring home dozens of Dutch reissues of Stax and Atco soul LPs that were completely unavailable in New York. While I travel extensively these days, I haven’t set foot in a record store in well over a decade. Why bother, when the best record store sits on my laptop in my hotel room? A few nights ago at home, after putting the kids to bed, I was parked in front of the computer sipping bourbon. My wife asked me what I was doing. I told her I was going record shopping. As I glanced at my screen, ten ultra-rare discs I would have killed for way back when were streaming down to my living room for free.
this is overstated. i mean, i'm sure that for some genres/styles/artists/countries you can probably find all you need online, but at least a dozen times over the last two years i've really wanted/needed an album but been unable to locate it online - for free or pay. in some cases i was able to get someone abroad to purchase it for me, rip it, and transfer it online. in other cases i've still had to hit up brick music stores to try and find stuff not otherwise available. i still have a list of albums that i can't find anywhere + that i'm on the lookout for. and i'm very good at ferreting out music online. it's just not all there.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:54 (eleven years ago) link
so basically your stance here is "professional musicians are sanctimonious assholes"?
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:57 (eleven years ago) link
Well, there are a multitude of blogs with people that rip "cool" vinyl for all to share (Why do they do this? I couldn't be bothered myself, does that make me selfish or something?)
(caveat: Usually I d/l records I already own (other times, hard to find stuff) but it takes time to record and convert them for my MP3 player etc.)
Then again, the last LP I recorded at home for 'devices' was a Morecambe and Wise LP.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:58 (eleven years ago) link
xpost:
Usually, this is the default..
― Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:59 (eleven years ago) link
"so basically your stance here is "professional musicians are sanctimonious assholes"?"
And NPR interns too dontchyaforget.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 13:59 (eleven years ago) link
"people who want to get paid for their creations are sanctimonious assholes"
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:01 (eleven years ago) link
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-i_BqwzbBjqw/TeciERENjRI/AAAAAAAABuw/j2LJ41x8CTk/s400/PIdearecord.jpg
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:01 (eleven years ago) link
I'm sure I mentioned this before but I think in 2005 I bought a copy-protected CD that wouldn't play on my car stereo, got a refund, and downloaded and burned a copy that did work - from that moment on, it was like the world changed forever
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:07 (eleven years ago) link
copy-protected CDs are over, aren't they?
― Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:08 (eleven years ago) link
+1 to Whiney's "Steal all you can" / "Buy all you can afford" tweet
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:08 (eleven years ago) link
Gah, I can think of so many similar work-related stories. I contact a publicist, asking them nicely to send a record I'm assigned to review. They say yes and:
1) The album never arrives2) The album arrives in unplayable form3) The album arrives in unportable form4) The album arrives is horrible streamable form. 5) They say they'll send me a copy after it streets
And all this time the album has already leaked and is proliferating. I've had publicists flat out tell me their hands are tied, and suggest I download!
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:13 (eleven years ago) link
xxp they are, and even some of the more restrictive mp3 download stuff is going away (Amazon is really good with this). but again it just emphasizes the RIAA's crusade to dick over their own customers the instant they think there's any potential for short-term benefit, not surprising that nobody wants to support them anymore
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:14 (eleven years ago) link
dude was not talking about copy protected cds, nor was he talking about promo copies from publicists. y'all are missing the point of the quote.
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:16 (eleven years ago) link
Not missing, ignoring to serve up a tangential anecdote.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:20 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, it's the same concept. I bought a Gordon Lightfoot tune on iTunes and just got frustrated by how tough it was to move the thing around (this was in 2004 I think). But I think if you look somewhere around post #1000 this has been discussed at length already
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:24 (eleven years ago) link
I am quite certain that the vast majority of people procuring illegal copies of albums are not doing so because of bogarting publicists, so I'm really not sure what the point of the anecdote is beyond presenting a more defensible "well it's okay for ME to do it" argument
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:25 (eleven years ago) link
"As I glanced at my screen, ten ultra-rare discs I would have killed for way back when were streaming down to my living room for free."
but they aren't discs they are MP3s or whatever and they probably don't sound as good as the discs. who wrote this thing?
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
so many boomers who come in my store are so proud to tell me how they spotify and itune and earbud and all that. dads always did love new gadgetry.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
A few nights ago at home, after putting the kids to bed, I was parked in front of the computer sipping bourbon. My wife asked me what I was doing. I told her I was going record shopping. As I glanced at my screen, ten ultra-rare discs I would have killed for way back when were streaming down to my living room for free.
This dude really needs to be punched in the dick if we're all being honest.
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
and just got frustrated by how tough it was to move the thing around
uggggggggggggh these mp3 files are so heavy!
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:34 (eleven years ago) link
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:34 (eleven years ago) link
they aren't discs they are MP3s or whatever and they probably don't sound as good as the discs. who wrote this thing? --scott seward
I think for most people the differences in fidelity are minor.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:34 (eleven years ago) link
kenny g is the guy that runs/puts all the content on ubuweb
― Crackle Box, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:36 (eleven years ago) link
Minor Infidelity..
― Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:36 (eleven years ago) link
My first vinyl was probably Ghostbusters soundtrack. My parents had a big enough collection and i was, like, 4.My first tape was probably the Prince "Batman" soundtrackMy first CD was probably Weird Al's "Alapalooza"First MP3 was i think '97, some Beatles Get Back sessions outtake
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:37 (eleven years ago) link
and plays a killer alto sax
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:37 (eleven years ago) link
soprano sax
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:38 (eleven years ago) link
i didn't show you guys my new store FAQ -
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/403489_10151582926662137_1525939772_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/562581_10151582927077137_2030238450_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/560391_10151582927322137_191918460_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/252354_10151582927537137_1899659198_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/250717_10151582927817137_1830213315_n.jpg
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:39 (eleven years ago) link
My first:
Seven inch, Been such a long way home - Garnett Mimms (1968?)LP (12") Doris Day sings with kids (approx title) (1966?)12" Single Substitute - The Who (1976)Cassette Siouxsie and the banshees "Kaleidoscope"CD Single Darklands - Jesus and Mary ChainCD Album Out of our Idiot - Elvis CostelloMinidisc Boo Radleys - Kingsize8-track Sgt Pepper (at a boot sale)and 78 for the going back some Party - Elvis (1972)
― Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
My first MP2 was a Tori Amos rarity downloaded from a BBS, her terrible cover of "Ring my bell" iircAudio fidelity was baaad
xp that's cute, Scott
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
FAQ OTM
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
:) scott
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
i bought a record i recorded recently because i couldn't be bothered to download it off slsk or find the power supply for the external hdd it lives on
― Crackle Box, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:42 (eleven years ago) link
That can happen..
― Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:43 (eleven years ago) link
7" - "Wouldn't it be nice" / "God only knows", mom's copy, age 5Purchased 7" - local hardcore band Blake, 199912" - older brother's electronica band, 1996LP - don't remember, probably around 1999Cassette - Eurythmics "Sweet Dreams", age 6 or so; didn't buy cassettes otherwiseCD album - Bjork "Debut", Chopin "Nocturnes", Shostakovich 10th, (HMV Gift certificate, 1994)CD single - Some Tori Amos thing, probably, 1997
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:44 (eleven years ago) link
Actually, I just bought an album I had owned and sold before recording it, purely to record it.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:44 (eleven years ago) link
god, trying to remember my firsts...
7": either "It's A Sin" - PSB or "Head Over Heels" - Tears For Fears12": either "Rent" - PSB, "Fight Like A Brave" - RHCP or "Seattle" - PiLLP: The JetsCassette: Men Without Hats - Rhythm of YouthCD Single: no idea, maybe "How Can You Expect To Be Taken Seriously?" - PSBCD Album: Doolittle - Pixies
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:44 (eleven years ago) link
The peak of my CD buying was 1999-2000, when Sam the Record Man was selling everything for $10; bought entire Bowie Ryko set, every XTC, tonnes of James Brown, Rolling Stones, and so on. Spent $30 on a Neu! bootleg in 1999. Last CD bought retail was Animal Collective 2CD re-issue in 2003.
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:45 (eleven years ago) link
I love the idea of DJP's record collection consisting of a single copy of The Jets
― hot knives, wind was blowin' (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:47 (eleven years ago) link
I can think of worse things in life than playing "Curiosity" on repeat for days
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:48 (eleven years ago) link
(which I did; in fact I made a C90 that was nothing but "Curiosity")
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:50 (eleven years ago) link
Records are fun!
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:52 (eleven years ago) link
I can think of few worse things than playing "Make It Real" on repeat
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:53 (eleven years ago) link
7": "Love Will Keep Us Together", "Black Superman", and "Rhinestone Cowboy" all at onceLP: Songs In The Key of LifeCassette: 9 from Columbia House (Police, Def Leppard, Big Country, others)CD Album: Alice Cooper, Pretties For You
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 14:57 (eleven years ago) link
xp: dude I never got the second Jets album for a reason
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:00 (eleven years ago) link
I could hear the "Chip & Dale Rescue Rangers" theme song for hours though.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:02 (eleven years ago) link
There was no point. Just a story.
However, here is an illegal downloading story with a point. I buy a CD. I pay full price. Years later, I rip it to my computer, then sell the CD/give it to a friend/throw it away/use it as a coaster. I then transfer the MP3 files to my iPod. Do I own those MP3s? I think I do. Let's assume I do. My computer harddrive crashes, and now the only copy of the music, which I paid for, is on my iPod. So far so good? I get a new harddrive/fix my computer and want my MP3s back on it. But the iPod makes this very difficult, and not possible at all without limitation-circumventing third party technology. So I illegally download a copy of a CD I had already paid for to get a copy of music I already own, just to put in a different place.
How many laws/user agreements have I broken? Probably a lot. How deep an ethical infraction is it? I don't know.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:04 (eleven years ago) link
scott, i'm going to buy some ray lamontagne vinyl and send it to you.
― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:06 (eleven years ago) link
if you were running Windows it actually should have been super easy to pull music off of it since the OS looks at it like a USB hard drive that you can navigate to and copy files off of
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
I get a new harddrive/fix my computer and want my MP3s back on it.
You can get around this by a) saving the CD b) making a back up copy of the Mp3 files.
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
What's this pirate site that downloads straight to your record player?
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
also lol @ u for never backing up
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
I realize this is not what you're looking for Josh but there are many programs that can rip straight from an iPod.
If you buy a disc and sell it, I dunno how "ethical" it is to then d/l the disc. It feels like a loophole and again the artist is getting screwed since used discs are bad for sales. But how is it different from accidentally breaking the disc? I dunno. My Dad was always pissed that he had to buy four copies of "Brain Salad Surgery" in his life. I sympathize with that. Just another example of how the economics of intellectual property is just one big grey area.
I think that getting rid of physical media *in general* helps solve a lot of this - pay a fee for some MP3s/Flacs that you can do whatever you want with, you can re-download anytime, and for which you can get remastered/bonus tracked versions cheaper
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
Non-"Mr. Puppy's Sing-A-Long Jamboree!" firsts:
7" - Amii Stewart - "Knock On Wood"/"When You Are Beautiful"10" - Luscious Jackson - "Here"LP - Beach Boys - Love YouCassette - Cats Original Broadway Cast RecordingCassingle - Wilson Phillips - "Impulsive"CD - Massive Attack - ProtectionCD single - Ani DiFranco - "Joyful Girl"MP3 - Tyrannosaurus Rex - "Lofty Skies"
― Old Lunch, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:20 (eleven years ago) link
xpost There are lots of could-have-dones, but for lots of reasons I didn't. I could have saved the CD, but the point of making a copy is that I shouldn't have to. Which boils down to the backup quagmire: how many backups? How many backups of backups? Regardless, the point stands: my iPod (or Apple) made it difficult for me to listen to music I purchased where I wanted to listen to it. This is no longer a problem, since they've more recently made streaming from various locations very easy, but a few years ago it was a problem for me. It is an example of how the "convenience" of illegal downloading can be defended, at least in this instance.
And honestly, I've had plenty of backups, and backups of backups, all go bad on me, for reasons beyond my control. I have a lot of (legally paid for) music that lives on one old 160GB iPod.
Used CDs, I can always defend selling. Everyone benefits. The record industry and artist got its sale, which is all it can expect from a single CD. I get money to spend on more music. The store gets total profit over selling my used CD, which it can then use to bolster inventory of new stuff. And some buyer gets a deal on music he or she might have otherwise never bought.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
Right, but as far as the artist is concerned, two people bought the CD but he only got paid for one. Hence why I thought the RIAA should be all over downloading.
As far as the backups go - that's why I love having the 160 GB iPod, when you do get a crash it's easy to just restore from there
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
what you're talking about is really an insurance question/issue
basically, should your digital assets be placed under the same type of protection as your physical assets?
if you had an LP or CD that you copied onto cassette or CD-R for your car stereo and your house burned down, destroying the LP/CD, your home owner's insurance would allow you to replace the original album; none of that is currently there with digital-only music, including stuff that you've bought in digital form, and is the #1 reason why I still purchase CDs whenever possible
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah Josh's question is a good one - the number of albums I've downloaded for free is dwarfed by the number I've bought on CD and ripped, then sold or given away six years later but kept on iTunes (or partially kept i.e. the three or four tracks I still liked, or kept for another three years and never listened to again then deleted out of annoyance after scrolling past the cover for the one-hundred-and-umpteenth time).
― Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
I would think that in the future the "cloud" idea of personal storage would spread everywhere and you wouldn't have to worry
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:31 (eleven years ago) link
as someone who works in an industry that espouses cloud storage philosophy... I recommend worrying for the next 30 years
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:32 (eleven years ago) link
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
well I don't think that personal storage is going anywhere soon but we're already in a world where people use phones/tablets with like 5% the storage of a typical HD and everything works out okay since there's a ton of streaming services and a lot of cheap and effective ways to back up data without having to actually own a physical anything
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
yeah you'd think that but it's not really true so
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
digital objects are at-risk after like a year. five years = transfer them now. 10-15 years = uh-oh.
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
yeah digital archiving is a non-trivial task.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
cloud storage? i mean idk but the tech industry goes through huge change so often i... don't really trust amazon to house my personal archive. the company could be gone in ten years. or it could be a datamining powerhouse that updates my junk mail profile every time i sync or whatever. either way...
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:51 (eleven years ago) link
I will say this: Apple's drive (so to speak) toward non-expandable drives, on their listening devices as well as their laptops, has discouraged me from downloading, legally and illegally, as much as I used to. I've had such terrible luck with external drives that I consider everything on them not just expendable but ultimately doomed.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
All hard drives are doomed; if you want to believe you won't lose a file, you need a local copy and two external backups, one of them off-site and rotated regularly.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:54 (eleven years ago) link
(N.B. I don't do this (yet))
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
silby OTM
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
I'm pretty sure the RIAA would like each individual MP3 to be its own entity, like how each tape or CD is an individual unit. Making backups may be legal if you own the original, but yeah the 100% ethical way to do that if you lose the hard copy is just buy another hard copy or pay for a new mp3. After all, they didn't give out free CDs to anyone who bought the same album on vinyl.
Cue Men in Black "I'll have to buy the White Album again" joke.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
how do you mean? it's one thing if you don't trust Amazon but somehow I don't think they're going to suddenly go out of business and delete everything without giving people a chance to move their files out.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:01 (eleven years ago) link
when was the last time anyone actually bought a dismemberment plan or cracker cd in a store? 2001?
Dismemberment Plan was one of those "heard of, never heard" bands that I downloaded a bunch of songs by on Napster circa 2001. I bought a couple of the actual CDs over the next couple years, and burned copies of the others from the college radio station.
I think the first tape I ever bought was License to Ill when I was in 7th grade.First CD was Physical Graffiti in 1990, from a friend who accidentally ended up with two copies from BMG. I didn't even have a CD player yet but was going to buy one in a couple of weeks.
I sold all my cassettes to a used record store in Madison, WI sometime in 91 or 92, as I hated them and had replaced everything with CDs by then.
I've also recently started buying CDs again, but only because Amazon often has downloads of old albums that have sold millions of copies already for $10, but sells the same CD from some online flea market for $0.01 with $2.98 shipping, meaning I have to wait a week but somehow this seems both more legit and worse for everyone at the same time.
― joygoat, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:01 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.htmlhttp://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/amazon-pulls-thousands-of-e-books-in-dispute/
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
regardless of who you trust or how much your hard drives fail (and I think everyone here has gotten screwed by an untimely HD crash at some point), I don't think you can deny this is where things are heading
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:03 (eleven years ago) link
peoples' faith in tech companies is baffling
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:04 (eleven years ago) link
no one said "things aren't going there"; I see multiple people saying "things aren't there yet so behaving as if they are is foolish at best"
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
also I don't think Amazon's going to be pulling content that was already purchased from ppl's devices anymore, they pubically admitted that was a mistake. Apple's policy w/r/t iTunes "purchased" songs is loosening over time, I don't think we're headed in the direction of more restrictions in general but obviously I could be wrong
also I'm aware we aren't quite there yet but the idea of a $600 tablet with only 16 GB of storage would have been insane in 2005
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
this all sounds very complicated. i will pray for you all. good luck and godspeed.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
I mean it's all about tradeoffs, you know? I have no space to have records or even CDs of all the music I have digital files of (and it's not very much compared to probably everyone else on ILX).
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
In exchange I have to worry about failing hard drives.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think the pulling content thing is as much of an issue as the inability to guarantee access to data over the long term
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
companies fail, stuff gets lost, streaming services /= ownership etc
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
but i thought this bright blue screen was magic
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:39 (eleven years ago) link
well "stuff getting lost" shouldn't be a big issue, I'd think all these companies use RAID and multiple backups of everything b/c them losing anything would result in a lot of very negative publicity
"companies fail", yes but the risk of you putting everything on Amazon and having them go away overnight is basically 0%. you'd probably just have to move it to a different service.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:40 (eleven years ago) link
Here's the thing that really bothers me about 'one big library in the cloud that everyone streams from for a reasonable fee'. Record labels in the last few years have shown themselves unable to really at all QC the shit-tons of content they are digitizing for itunes, emusic, amazon, spotify etc. Some of them are using shitty codecs or shitty hurry-it-up encoding settings. Some of them are uploading files with horrible clicks and clacks and cutoff beginnings or ends. Say we're in the future and and I, jon, want to listen to [insert 1960s classical recording now owned by UMG]. A track has a hideous artefact during a crucial moment of the music. It's not like my copy of [piece] is defective. The ONLY COPY AVAILABLE TO ANYONE ANYWHERE is defective. I submit a complaint form to UMG, who are responsible for trillions of tracks and whose digital QC department has been directed to prioritize classical content 99th out of 100 genres and whose complaint queue is several hundred thousand incidents long.
Or EMI has four different remasterings of recording X in its portfolio. They naturally choose the most recent one for the cloud. Unfortunately that's the remastering that they brickwalled for the kidz. Or the one where they removed too much hiss from the beautiful stereo masters resulting in a pathetic lack of high end. Etc.
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
trying to think of any precedent for moving this kind of data between services and can't think of one
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
this is the seminal angry rant on this topic:
http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1717
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:43 (eleven years ago) link
like when Facebook finally dies do you think all the users will be provided with a seamless transition for uploading all their photos to some other site, I sort of doubt it
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:43 (eleven years ago) link
(the cloud topic, not anything related to music collecting specifically selfxp)
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
Economies collapse, icecaps melt, comets crash into the earth.
― Jesu swept (ledge), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
- If you lose your shit, the technogeeks will not help you. They will giggle at you and make fun of your not understanding the fundamental principles and engineering of client-server models. This is kind of like firemen sitting around giggling at you because you weren’t aware of the inherent lightning-strike danger of improperly bonded CSST. - Since the dawn of time, companies have hired people whose entire job is to tell you everything is all right and you can completely trust them and the company is as stable as a rock, and to do so until they, themselves are fired because the company is out of business. - You are going to have to sit down and ask yourself some very tough questions because the time where you could get away without asking very tough questions with regard to your online presence and data are gone.
u&k
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:45 (eleven years ago) link
when was the last time something just shut down and all the users got screwed over? (I really can't think of one outside of stuff like online poker. I'm not being rhetorical - I'm sure it's happened in some capacity)
as for the Facebook example - I don't know how, but my guess is that it's going to be very clear to the users when they should start moving their photos off
Jon's point above is a very good one and potentially a big issue in the future. BTW I'm not really talking about Spotify necessarily, but rather a cloud service where you upload your mp3s and can stream them from anywhere, so you are still responsible for your own data (in a good way)
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:47 (eleven years ago) link
geocities
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:48 (eleven years ago) link
Tabblo http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Tabblo
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:49 (eleven years ago) link
Magnolia http://www.technologyreview.com/view/412041/are-we-safeguarding-social-data/
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:50 (eleven years ago) link
I was in diasp0ra, and now its gone!
― robert mcnamara in reverse (loves laboured breathing), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 16:57 (eleven years ago) link
thread relevant example: megaupload
some people actually used it to store things besides pirated music
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:35 (eleven years ago) link
I mean if this isn't an object lesson in the joys of cloud computing, I don't know what
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/257376/if_megaupload_users_want_their_data_theyre_going_to_have_to_pay.html
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:43 (eleven years ago) link
Admittedly it's also a lesson in the joys of hard drives:
"Goodwin's hard drive crashed, and he lost access to the data he backed up on Megaupload when the site was shut down on Jan. 19 on criminal copyright infringement charges."
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
why do I need a hard drive? it's all in the cloud! fluffy fluffy cloud
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:46 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHixChYgGRI
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:47 (eleven years ago) link
Rickie Lee Dotcom
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
well considering that those big send file services are used mostly for illegal activity and routinely delete files after some period of time, I don't think that it's really a good example
Geocities I get, but I never had an account there so I don't know if it just vanished overnight or what.
both examples are a far way from what Amazon is trying to do
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:57 (eleven years ago) link
no one mentioned Amazon
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:58 (eleven years ago) link
or at least, I didn't. (I mentioned facebook)
the point is that there is an established pattern of tech firms failing and just going "oops sorry!" to users, and pretending that other firms are "too big" to act that way is myopic imho
booming thread
― ༼◍ྀ ౪ ◍ི ༽ (cozen), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not really sure if the possibility of Facebook vanishing really convinces me that a cloud can't be reliable, I mean MySpace has been dead for years and IIRC everyone's stuff is still up there. Obviously companies can fail but I still like to think that anyone paying attention will have ample warning before a giant like Facebook goes down. I don't know anything about Carbonite but don't they have a plan in place should things go south for the company?
Don't think that personal storage as a whole is going away for a very long time, but I would think most devices we use 5-10 years from now wouldn't have a need for much data to be stored, music included
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:05 (eleven years ago) link
frogbs remember wordperfect? lotus notes? 3.5 floppies?
web-based storage is like five years old. it's still being born. amazon isn't going to be the same company in ten years. i mean, if you wanna put your baby fotoes on s3 and treat it like it's magic, that isn't my problem.
the point is preserving things doesn't just happen, you have to make it happen, and you can only rely on companies so much since it's usually lower down on the list of stockholders' priorities than pr would have you believe.
also technology and software just change really fast. no one likes to migrate. a lot of stuff falls through the cracks.
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
no one likes to migrate.
quite honestly, this cannot be reiterated enough
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
granted, megaupload's services were used for illegal activity, but a lot of folks used them legally for their ostensibly designed purpose - to transfer large files. files weren't deleted if you were a paying customer, and folks used them as a convenient online storage locker. I can't imagine anyone who was a paying customer thought the system would disappear overnight, and that their perfectly legal files would be suddenly inaccessible.
though it sounds like your angle is, "it's never happened to me, so it's not a risk", ok cool
xps
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
should we have a separate thread about this?
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
i think we already have a few
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:16 (eleven years ago) link
WordPerfect is a word processor isn't it? Maybe I don't remember that one.
Again, I don't think personal storage is going away altogether, but in 5-10 years the mega-storage iPod will likely be replaced with something that just streams from either a server like Amazon or some home storage unit. In other words the idea that your data needs to be duplicated from your computer to your iPod or phone will likely be replaced with something that allows them all to use the same data.
The idea of the safe online storage locker is fairly new and I don't think the examples here really apply to what Amazon is trying to do since the whole point is just to protect your data in case of a crash. And the demand for that goes up every day. IMO it's a different issue from "will our devices have huge storage capacity", but maybe I'm lost in this argument
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, we do... and to bring this back to music this whole cloud file storage/transfer/backup/access web of problems is really immense, pretending that there's some easy cost-free way to just stream everybody's personal libraries of music everywhere forever for free is just... man, why not throw a unicorn into that deal too. it just speaks of massive ignorance about how tech companies function, make money, etc. it's hardly a "no brainer" type of model.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
y'know, who's gonna maintain it, upgrade it, update it, who's going to pay for that, who's going to have access, how are copyrights going to be administered, etc these are not minor questions
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
so far in this wonderful new internet economy we can't even get a single paying streaming service with a comprehensive library of quality music functioning, the idea that some universal immortal digital jukebox in the sky is just a few years away, I can't even..
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
no, my angle is that MegaUpload and say Carbonite are different concepts, anyone using MegaUpload as a storage locker had to be somewhat aware that its dubious legality could result in it just going away out of nothing. I think a true online storage site may operate differently.
also, I'm fully aware that RIGHT NOW uploading all your data to Amazon and formatting all your hard drives isn't a good idea, just that in the future this whole area may look quite different (as there may be a way to "guarantee" your data somehow)
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
"in the future, things may be different"
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
well Shakey for many people simply having Spotify on their PCs and phones is enough and I think the technology to stream stuff from your PC to your phone or even from Amazon to your phone already exists
"a few years" is an awful long time in the tech world
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
certainly, I don't think this service will be free
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
well Shakey for many people simply having Spotify on their PCs and phones is enough
except as noted Spotify doesn't pay musicians shit. what a great model for the future!
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
So now we're talking about the artists? I'm saying this as a "proof of concept" that most people who aren't hardcore music geeks are okay with 'just' streaming so this area may get pushed pretty hard. I don't think Spotify is the solution but the concept behind Spotify seems like it may stick around.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
I thought this whole revive was about a stupid kid wanting a digital music library available for all her devices that would, presumably, somehow, also compensate artists. and she thinks the onus is on artists and corporations to work it out. the problem is they can't.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
or maybe she doesn't care about compensation at all, I can't really tell
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
i was under the impression that the average person who uses spotify or itunes liked them! i mean like i was saying before old folks use them and if you can get old people to use them you are on to something convenient and easy.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
have always assumed spotify will increase its pricing on premium and/or limit the free service further if/when it gets enough people hooked.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
^^^worked so well for netflix
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
people ditch models when they start charging money
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
the fact that people complained about a service that allowed you instant access to so much, commercial free, that still costs just a fraction of what cable does kinda boggles my mind
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:41 (eleven years ago) link
netflix had crap selection though. If netflix had spotify-level selection, or if it announced upgrade to that level of selection at the same time as the price upgrade, I think more subscribers would have stayed.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:55 (eleven years ago) link
bingo, and if Spotify sticks around as is for another year or so and then starts to charge, I think people will pay
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
I pay $10/mo. I'd probably pay $20/mo -- still cheaper than a pay CD/MP3 habit.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
Plus amazing convenience -- having an entire record library on your phone, on your work computer, etc.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
i know this isn't the scope of this conversation, but i've often wondered about whether we'll have more text/photo/media artifacts from 2012AD in 3012AD than we have from 1012AD today. seems like physical media can stand up to time + decay much better than digital media. on the other hand, we've gotta be producing so much more even physical media in 2012 than we did in 1012. if the grid goes down and the internet ends bc of something catastrophic (would not be the first knowledge catastrophe in history) we're gonna be fucked. of course, if that happens we might have more pressing concerns than losing the pics from that trip to cancun
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
we produce way more physical text/photo/media artifacts in 2012 than we did in 1012. 1992 vs 2012 might be a better comparison.
― silverfish, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
but it is something I worry about sometimes. How am I going to listen to these mp3s after the apocalypse?
― silverfish, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
if this service really was unlimited I can see paying $250-400 a year for it
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
Mordy even more horrifying than that is the fact that every kid born this century is going to have access to a bunch of embarassing Facebook updates and pictures from their parents. Will you want to run for president in 2036 and have someone dig up the time you "liked" that "drug test the poor" image? I sure as hell wouldn't.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
that just seems like old stuff in new form. parents have always left children with embarrassing legacies - digital or otherwise
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
if the grid goes down and the internet ends bc of something catastrophic (would not be the first knowledge catastrophe in history) we're gonna be fucked.
I think about this a lot. no one will be able to make/do anything.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
people probably won't even remember how to do basic math
that's why I still own my solar powered calculator from high school
― silverfish, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
oh come on, people will always know how to do basic math - who's going to maintain the cloud otherwise?
― mississippi joan hart (crüt), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
lucifer's hammer taught me to keep a copy of 'the way things work' in a ziplock bag
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:25 (eleven years ago) link
i would pay double for on demand netflix if they had real movies premiere every week. you know movies that people have heard of. i don't even know what we pay for netflix. we don't have cable anymore. since we moved last summer. don't miss it. netflix worth it for me. i would never even think about buying a dvd. unless it was a dollar.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:27 (eleven years ago) link
except as noted Spotify doesn't pay musicians shit.
People should stop making blanket assertions about this. Plenty of industry reports suggest otherwise.
― timellison, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
is that why entire labels don't want to play ball with them
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:34 (eleven years ago) link
There might still be problems with royalty rates for smaller labels - I don't know. I think just about every major label is on it and, as I said yesterday or the day before, you'd think that they would negotiate something substantial. I keep seeing the third of a penny per stream thing mentioned as something in the ballpark.
― timellison, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2012/120604youtube
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
There you go.
― timellison, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
I keep seeing the third of a penny per stream thing mentioned as something in the ballpark.
this is the part where I say "Spotify doesn't pay musicians shit"
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
lol @ paying out LESS THAN NAPSTER
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
i go to the library all the time and read books there and don't pay anything (besides taxes) for the privilege. i pay spotify ~$12 a month to listen to their collection ad-free. they have legal agreements with labels (not all of them - no tzadik, sadface) that allow them to stream the music to me. why should i feel guilty about paying spotify to listen to lots of music, and not feel guilty about reading all the books i want for free?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:39 (eleven years ago) link
libraries are not a good analogy
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:43 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno if you should feel "guilty" per se, that achieves nothing
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
why are libraries a bad analogy? bc we believe everyone should have free access to books but don't have a similar ideology about recordings?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, Mr. Que, I'm not sure I agree. The model I posted the other day was $10,000 in royalties for only 30,000 album listeners playing a ten-track album ten times over the course of a certain span of time. 30,000 listeners isn't that many, comparatively. If we're talking about considerably more popular albums, there's a lot of money there. 300,000 listeners would mean $100,000 in royalties, three million listeners would mean a million dollars in royalties, etc.
― timellison, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
free access to books=you don't get to keep the booksfree access to music=you can download the music, have it forever, you get to keep it
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:45 (eleven years ago) link
Because books go back to the library.
xpost bah
― Mark G, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:45 (eleven years ago) link
You can check out CDs from the library so maybe that is a good analogy.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:46 (eleven years ago) link
libraries are a bad analogy because EVERYBODY pays for them. it's the law.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
tim that is fine if you don't agree! i think a fraction of a cent for one play is insane.
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
fwiw I am totally cool with taxes funding music libraries. let's raise taxes! Everybody is always cool with that!
i don't get to keep the music on spotify fwiw. if the labels pull the music, i lose it. if i stop subscribing, the ads come back.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
i just got great discarded CDs from our library during their book sale. bud powell and ligeti, yo.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
i'd totally be into taxes being used to fund a massive nationwide wi-fi network
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
sorry in my comparison i meant downloading/pirating music, not spotify
spotify is fine if you want to use it. just be aware it doesn't pay shit to the artists.
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
the only time i go to a library is when i can buy stuff. hate those places. worse than bus stations.
I'm into taxes being used to fix roads, pay for academic instutions and pay for citizens' health care
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:50 (eleven years ago) link
i used to listen to all the records at my library when i was a kid. they had pretty decent listening stations. i learned all the words to doors songs that way.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:50 (eleven years ago) link
i don't see why the amount that spotify pays to artists should matter to me? like, i guess in a collective sense we should be concerned about how much ppl in our creative classes are making. however what i am doing is a) legal and b) agreed to by the artists i'm supposedly stiffing!
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
yeah really its lawyer time if they are getting stiffed. you can't legally pay for music online and STILL have people yell at you for not doing the right thing.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
Mordy, I've seen some Tzadik on Spotify!
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
^^^ this is the part I don't understand re: the "Spotify is evil" argument
like, I get that it's not like everyone on Spotify is rolling in mountains of dough due to plays on it, but it's still a revenue stream, and a legal one at that; why is the concept so fatally flawed just because this particular implementation is imperfect?
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
recently? i think they pulled all their stuff a bit ago xp
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
― mookieproof, Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:25 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Love that fkin book (TWTW that is)
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think spotify is evil!
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:56 (eleven years ago) link
they "agreed" to it because they have no option because piracy has driven down the value of music to the point where most artists can no longer make a living at it.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
Looking right now, there's a bunch of Zorn -- Filmworks mostly, some game pieces, 50th birthday stuff, etc.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, my hemming and hawing stops at spotify. It's legal, it's negotiated, and labels don't have to participate. Obviously the ones who participate see it as a better deal than not participating. Little money per play with a greater universe of potential listeners, I guess. I added 15 albums already this month to my "playlists" meaning I play them somewhat regularly. I would never have bought 15 retail-price albums in a month.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
in a collective sense, no one is concerned with how much ppl in our creative classes are making because the market has determined that the creative classes output is essentially worthless. just like your teachers used to tell you in school!
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
nothing from the rjc imprint as far as i can tell xxp
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:58 (eleven years ago) link
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:50 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
You can't dance to roads or listen to healthcare in your car, gtfo.
― Julie Derpy (Phil D.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
Dancing about roads is like listening to healthcare.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
our society has collectively agreed that art, specifically music but other media aren't far behind, isn't worth anything
which, you know, okay whatever, I am into a lot of things produced by folk culture (ie by poor people for their own edification with no expectation of renumeration) but let's not pretend that anyone's going to be making monumental magnum opuses in such a scenario. otoh you can end up with tunes like "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" so it's not all bad.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
I've purchased all 12 of the albums I've added to my "faves of 2012" playlist except for Dawn Richard's "Armor On EP", mostly because I haven't seen where I can actually buy it
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:01 (eleven years ago) link
otoh, when you were in school did you think that people would regularly buy $10 sandwiches?
― sarahell, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:01 (eleven years ago) link
itunes.apple.com/us/album/armor-on-ep/id513094513
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:03 (eleven years ago) link
― Mordy, Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:58 PM (5 minutes ago)
Not much, but there's Coleman's Sephardic Tinge...
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
bc magnum opuses can only thrive in a culture of abundance + wealth? i disagree. lots of great art has come out of impoverished circumstances. which isn't to say artists should be poor, just that them being poor doesn't mean the end of great art.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
lol of course it's on iTunes now, it wasn't when I last looked
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
bc magnum opuses can only thrive in a culture of abundance + wealth? i disagree.
I dunno most of the large-scale, technically complex cultural achievements I can think of were created when cultures (if not the artists themselves) were at their economic peak
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
I mean to extend my original point of comparison, "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" is a deep, utterly classic fucking song that you only need like two strings and a voice to play/sing, but it is nowhere near the scale of, say, "Abbey Road", which is a distinctly different kind of artistic achievement. Which is "better"? I dunno. But expect more of the former and less of the latter when there's no money around.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:13 (eleven years ago) link
in the realm of classical music, practically every lionized piece of music we have that has survived the centuries was composed at the behest of a king's or church's patronage
in modern times, with pop and rock music, this patronage model shifted to record labels both large and small
now that that model is slowly dying, where will the resources come from?
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:14 (eleven years ago) link
music more and more is operating like folk art. whether it's good or bad depends on what you want out of music, for most of us here, we like a lot of different kinds of music, so it's a mixture of good and bad.
but i feel like i finally figured out the strange phenomenon of under-employed 20 somethings in the mission regularly buying $10 sandwiches -- they can afford it because they get most of their entertainment for free, unlike people of my generation.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
Also easier to produce a magnum opus now than probably ever before. Who needs an orchestra these days?
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Hunger_first_edition.jpg
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
Someone looking for the sound of an orchestra playing live rather than synth patches? There are certain phrasing things you're never going to get from a keyboard approximating a stringed or wind instrument, which can make a difference to the piece you're trying to create.
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
something that's easy to do is by definition not going to impress anybody, and won't really be considered a magnum opus
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:23 (eleven years ago) link
I've heard the state of the art and they're nowhere near simulating an orchestra yet. Not to say it can't be done.
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:25 (eleven years ago) link
Samples are more appropriate for many productions
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:35 (eleven years ago) link
Whoops, accidental click. Samples are more appropriate for many productions, but hiring an orchestra or even just a quartet is cheaper and easier than you'd think. Building an orchestra w/ friends doing overdubs, too. afaic the major price-sink in album-making that is more deeply shaping the, uh, meta-sound is the expense of recording to tape, recording live drums in nice rooms.
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
"Someone looking for the sound of an orchestra playing live rather than synth patches?"
Not even just talking about synth patches though. There are so many ways to create sounds now (sampling other obvious).
"something that's easy to do is by definition not going to impress anybody, and won't really be considered a magnum opus"
Yes if you don't suffer your art it's not really art, right.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
no that's not really what I mean - I'm referring more to the resources marshalled for a work, ie, writing out the actual score and having it performed by an orchestra is more impressive in terms of the scale of effort involved and the resource required than playing some string patches by yourself through a laptop. suffering doesn't really have anything to do with it.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
Scale of effort does not seem to me to have much to do with the quality of a work.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
I sold 2 12"s ans 2 cds I paid a sum of £6.50 for £11 (store credit) today. Buying physical music makes you money! (which you inevitably just piss away on more records anyways...)
― Hennesy Williams (EDB), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
Owen makes an excellent point, we do stuff at our church concerts with pickup chamber groups made up of up to 6 string players and it's always surprising to me that ppl are as cheap as they are; we even did one concert with 4 BSO brass players playing archaic instruments and I don't think they got paid more than $500 apiece
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
not discussing quality
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
So you were talking about low-quality magnum opi?
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
I'm just addressing how the shifting economics of music means different kinds of work are going to get produced. Large scale works involving the dedicated efforts of large numbers of professional musicians marshalling expensive, cutting-edge technology and operating at the height of their powers are going to become rarer - small-scale works by small groups of people working with whatever cheap shit is around in their spare time are going to become the norm. This is not a qualitative assessment.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
I think most people understand the term "magnum opus" to refer to a work that is complex, dense, and took a lot of time, effort and resources to complete. without money to prop up this kind of effort, these kinds of works will become less common.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
A couple real-life examples-- though your definition of "magnum opus" may be tested-- a record such as "Ys" would've had its orchestra graft accomplished with 5-15 days of scoring by VDP and maximum six hours of studio time. A record such as Parenthetical Girls' "Entanglements" took the arranger and the producer about six months of on-and-off tracking friends playing different instruments, piecemeal, into an MBox.
And price wise, it'd cost about the same to record four days at a good studio with a Studer 24-track and purchase tape for it than it would to hire a 21-piece string section for a four-hour session-- which is enough to track 20-30 minutes of well-scored music.
Furthermore it's problematic to describe anything with an orchestra as being more or less magnum an opus than shit without an orchestra but that's my own problem
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
Yes, I get what you're saying. table is the table had a great post about this very thing about a year ago
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
Owen these anecdotes are super fkin interesting to me.
I assume all this stuff changes like crazy when it's a film score and has to involve union players?
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
The classic Band That Couldn't Exist Today example I like to use is Steely Dan -- didn't tour much in their day, relied on expensive production and expensive, well-trained musicians. Of course the disappearance of the class of studio musicians that played on their records is as much due to the advent of sequenced electronic production as it is to anything else. But a band like that today could never get a sufficient advance to make their records in the first place and could probably never earn enough on album sales and radio play alone to make a living. But w/e. Bach couldn't have existed in the 1970s either.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
xp I wouldn't know. None of my clients hire union players. AFM requires all members of the orchestra to be paid residuals, which is too much administration for any label (or film studio, for that matter) to want to take on. Even Disney/Pixar will plonk down $1m to buy out a session.
There are people at AFM who want to reform this system to reflect current realities, but it hasn't happened yet. Until then, you have to hire off contract. I always check film credits to see who got the work and it's usually one of six or seven contractors.
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
Where is that table post it was so good, I didn't 100% agree with it but it was a Good Read
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
I've kind of already said this to the point of turning blue in various threads like these, but there are certain kinds of music that you're just not going to get, for the most part, from people who record in their bedrooms after coming home from their dayjobs. You need sufficient time and energy to develop, and that's something a large record label advance did afford. I actually think the "scam" of it all was overblown in fact -- you would basically get a big chunk of upfront cash and not have to guarantee anything in return. Yes, there were sleazy abuses of the "recouping" system but the mere idea of recouping is really not unreasonable at all. Maybe the scam was taking naive young people with no financial understanding whatsoever, handing them a pile of cash looking the other way as they blew it.
Touring is overstated as an alternative -- the pie is smaller with more people competing, and it's pretty unrealistic to expect to even break even in your first couple years on the road (again, that's why an advance is useful).
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
I want to you to know that witty remark this did not pass unlol'd
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
xxpost I have become, over the past several years, a big film score geek so I like hearing abt this shit.
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
"eh, I only dig their first EP where they had the Royal Philharmonic..."
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
@ Hurting, I'd agree that "no advance equals different recording dynamic" but I'd disagree that it means a tangible change in the quality or content of the music recorded. I do think Steely Dan could exist today, recording-wise, no question.
What can't be duplicated imo is the phenomenon of the artist supergroup. A band such as Radiohead, who hit their stride at the height of CD sales and received both financial independence and a devoted following to sustain it. A band that can continue to tour big and record big for ten-plus albums, that's the phenomenon that we'll more likely see disappearing, for better or for worse.
Other similar examples would be [redacted redacted redacted I'm not getting into more detail]
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:44 (eleven years ago) link
I mean Kanye comes close in that regard but he's had SALES
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
[redacted redacted redacted I'm not getting into more detail]
;_;
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:51 (eleven years ago) link
Kanye doesn't sell nearly as much as people assume iirc
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
(still a lot tho obviously)
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
Kanye has sold over a million units of every album he's put out so I think he's mostly doing okay
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
"but I'd disagree that it means a tangible change in the quality or content of the music recorded."
i think there has already been a big tangible change.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
(in the US, I mean)
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:55 (eleven years ago) link
OH NO there have been changes, for sure, but not because of record company advances, imo.
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
Scott: do people really ask that much for Ray Lamontagne?
― Moka, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 21:58 (eleven years ago) link
I disagree. I mean:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aja_(album)#Personnel
Most of these guys existed at all only because there was such a thing as steady, paying studio work. I.e. they could be full-time musicians, practice for job-like hours every day they weren't in session, focus on their craft, get tons of experience, etc. And Steely Dan could pay each of them to come in and lay down maybe a single solo on a single track. Obv some will say good riddance to that, it's awfully decadent, etc. But it's a different world, regardless, from the one where you get your friend who kind of played the cello in high school to lay down a bassline consisting mostly of the roots of a four-chord progression.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:09 (eleven years ago) link
this is huge imho
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:11 (eleven years ago) link
aren't John Mayer and his tattoos positioning themselves as the studio rats of tomorrow?
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:22 (eleven years ago) link
and, guys, there are still hundreds of country sessioneers who still eke out a quite decent living under the old studio session system
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:23 (eleven years ago) link
I mean I don't want to paint too stark a picture. There will probably always be a supply of starving jazz school dudes who work as baristas, shed at night, and will lay down drum tracks for their bushwick loftmates.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:24 (eleven years ago) link
you don't have to say 'good riddance to that' to realize that its a model that wasn't gonna last forever
― iatee, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
Man there are dozens of gospel and COGIC gospel recordings I could link to right now that were made for peanuts and would blow the mind of any Aja fan
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:26 (eleven years ago) link
it's amazing it lasted as long as it did
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:26 (eleven years ago) link
presumably those are more about the performances than the recording itself
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:27 (eleven years ago) link
"Scott: do people really ask that much for Ray Lamontagne?"
ha, every once in a while. he's big around here. top two acts people ask for the most - that i usually don't have - would be townes van zandt and os mutantes.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:34 (eleven years ago) link
but the performances make the recording!
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:35 (eleven years ago) link
i want frogbs tempbanned just for consistently pulling this thread off the trail of interesting/productive discussion about as much as i ever wanted him tempbanned for making creepy racial comments
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:35 (eleven years ago) link
that's not what I'm getting at. Aja is praised as much for its SOUND - for how it's engineered, how the instruments are recorded and processed, how everything sounds so fucking clean and shiny and shrink-wrapped - as for its display of studio-musician-chops.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:37 (eleven years ago) link
yeah as much as i hate what the big labels did to people - and minority artists definitely got the brunt of the awfulness - the reason i'm stuck in the 70's (and the 60's and 50's) is the sound. tons of people got to experiment in big studios with great gear and great players and good engineers/etc and that ain't ever gonna happen again. even if they only got a day to record, they got to record in some great places.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:39 (eleven years ago) link
there were several elements that went into the finely tuned machine that was Steely Dan - impeccable mastery of the most expensive studio equipment of the time, high quality session musicians, and excellent songwriting - and all but maybe one of them (the songwriting) are pretty much unachievable without a lot of time and money.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:40 (eleven years ago) link
scott OTM and recording studios are gonna start to die out too (if they aren't already) due to a lack of a customer base. increasing numbers of people are just gonna think they can do all their shit on a laptop and who cares cuz no one's paying for it anyway and all that expensive studio machinery and engineering expertise is going to become more and more rare.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
and I say this as someone who loves and has engaged in a lot of "lo-fi" stuff. there's gonna be a lot more of it in the future.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:43 (eleven years ago) link
While all this is going on:
http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/industry/record-labels/lyor-cohen-on-music-s-future-i-hate-when-1007360752.story
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:43 (eleven years ago) link
yeah its sad. and the only people who will care about good recordings will be horrible people like jack white. sorry, i haven't said anything bad about him in a while. i try to monthly.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:43 (eleven years ago) link
there will never be another motown in our lifetimes. or blue note. or atlantic. etc. etc.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:44 (eleven years ago) link
but on the positive side, experimental musicians and electronic musicians have been and are doing amazing things with digi tech. and there are fancy classical and jazz discs that are pretty phenomenal sound-wise. i will probably never love them as much as the old sounds, but i do appreciate the efforts.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:45 (eleven years ago) link
We'll always have John Mayer.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:41 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
i always wonder when that's gonna happen, but all the low/mid-level studios i know seem to be doing well, or at least adapting and surviving. i know the big budget studio world has suffered, but i wonder if that's happening at all strata of that industry.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
those studios still seem to do a lot of mixing and/or mastering for self-recorded stuff, though
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
a lot of the best sounding modern CDs i own are by people that 99% of the population will never hear.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:47 (eleven years ago) link
someone told me the stones might be recording in greenfield today? oh how the mighty have fallen. but i think its cuz one of keith's guitar tech dudes has a studio down the street.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:48 (eleven years ago) link
Y'all should really read some of the tongue baths in that article I linked.
On embracing innovation, Lyor touted that he is the only music executive to have visited the Spotify offices in Sweden. "We should be fully embracing and engaging in what these new companies are doing. In Sweden the people have been living in a growing music economy because of Spotify," he says. ..."If somebody has a huge online following it means that my competitors already know about them," he explains. "I want to be there early to develop, and I want to build slowly. We prefer to foster them, water and give them sunshine so that they can grow. Malcolm Gladwell says that you have to put in the hours, and nothing is better for development than rolling up your sleeves and working and gigging to make something great. There's a reason we don't hand doctors a scalpel right out of medical school and say "have at it!" Lyor's claims that follower-bases don't translate into revenues stands in contrast to what the Internet has been able to produce in recent years. One can't simply ignore the commotion Justin Bieber has stirred, and while spotlight performances by Lana Del Rey and Karmin both received harsh reviews by the press, they are doing well sales-wise. Lana Del Rey's debut Born To Die has sold 254,000 copies since January and Karmin's single "Brokenhearted" currently sits at No. 17 on the Hot 100.On his preferred approach towards fostering artists, Lyor emphasized why he thinks 360 deals are important. "360 is an unpopular word, but I really believe that it's great for the artist and it's great for us. It's great to have people committed to our roster and committed to a relationship. We aren't flipping through our artists, and in many cases less is more."Green followed up on Cohen's point about 360 deals: "As an artist, you need to incentivize the marketing company," he said, "and the business engine behind your music because if they aren't, they aren't going to do what it takes to move the boulder up the hill."Ultimately, the panelists agreed that what a music industry wrought with decline and turmoil needs to succeed is camaraderie. "A fraternal and paternal industry, where we form a bond like we did when I joined in 1983," Cohen recalls, "where we'd all hang out and drink together and all root for each other. Let's start with an order, where people aren't rooting for each other's failure." His statement was met with thunderous applause from the audience.
"If somebody has a huge online following it means that my competitors already know about them," he explains. "I want to be there early to develop, and I want to build slowly. We prefer to foster them, water and give them sunshine so that they can grow. Malcolm Gladwell says that you have to put in the hours, and nothing is better for development than rolling up your sleeves and working and gigging to make something great. There's a reason we don't hand doctors a scalpel right out of medical school and say "have at it!"
Lyor's claims that follower-bases don't translate into revenues stands in contrast to what the Internet has been able to produce in recent years. One can't simply ignore the commotion Justin Bieber has stirred, and while spotlight performances by Lana Del Rey and Karmin both received harsh reviews by the press, they are doing well sales-wise. Lana Del Rey's debut Born To Die has sold 254,000 copies since January and Karmin's single "Brokenhearted" currently sits at No. 17 on the Hot 100.
On his preferred approach towards fostering artists, Lyor emphasized why he thinks 360 deals are important. "360 is an unpopular word, but I really believe that it's great for the artist and it's great for us. It's great to have people committed to our roster and committed to a relationship. We aren't flipping through our artists, and in many cases less is more."
Green followed up on Cohen's point about 360 deals: "As an artist, you need to incentivize the marketing company," he said, "and the business engine behind your music because if they aren't, they aren't going to do what it takes to move the boulder up the hill."
Ultimately, the panelists agreed that what a music industry wrought with decline and turmoil needs to succeed is camaraderie. "A fraternal and paternal industry, where we form a bond like we did when I joined in 1983," Cohen recalls, "where we'd all hang out and drink together and all root for each other. Let's start with an order, where people aren't rooting for each other's failure." His statement was met with thunderous applause from the audience.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:49 (eleven years ago) link
and, again, country sales are still holding steady. Also, country is the only genre in which its artists regularly seek expensive session men.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:49 (eleven years ago) link
country fans can't figger out them there newfangled compooters so they have to go on up there to the walmart and git themselves a ceedee! everyone knows that.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:51 (eleven years ago) link
In Sweden the people have been living in a growing music economy because of Spotify the government pays you to be an artist," he says
― iatee, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:52 (eleven years ago) link
lol scott
altho I was kinda thinking that tbh
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:52 (eleven years ago) link
― scott seward
I would probably ask for Os Mutantes at some point.
― Moka, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:52 (eleven years ago) link
i'm still in the market for country if it helps me complete my homer & jethro collection. i think i have around 20 of their albums. man, there are few things that sound sweeter than an original 50's or early 60's rca pressing of homer & jethro. talk about studio talent!
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 22:57 (eleven years ago) link
yeah you can hire session cats and they are a joy to work with. there's been a change in the whole culture of recording that's largely down to the digital domain & to being able to fix things - most people think you don't really need a good musician to make a good track. (and you don't, always - there are many different aesthetics - but a good musician is better than a smoothed-and-fixed take from a bad one, imo.) there are some TREMENDOUS producers making rock music who any 70s head should pay attention to, but most of them will tell you that the material they get to work with isn't the kind of stuff people are going to be sufficiently moved by to start asking q's about the nature of the recording.
also, and this is key: producers used to really push artists around. producers answered to label dudes who had a big-picture vision of the market, and they answered to their own idea of what the record ought to sound like. the artist was last in line, which is why a lot of artists who got big enough either learned how to engineer or (as in Dylan's case) got nameless engineer dudes who'd do their bidding & took the production credit themselves. you can be at Village Recorders or Blackbird or wherever but if you've got an artist who doesn't actually know anything about recording who gets the final say on production choices, you're not gonna get much. I'd wager that Steely Dan's attitude toward Katz was "you do your thing, we'll micromanage on the musical side."
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 23:07 (eleven years ago) link
i wish i could get behind new stuff more, but, man, i can't help it i hear something old/analog and my brain is on fire. a reggae 45 from the 70's that cost a dollar to make...worth more to me than most of what i hear out there. just talking sound-wise, not even music-wise. i listen to privately recorded folk records from the 70's that people made at home or in tiny studios in the middle of nowhere and they can sound AMAZING. so beautiful. even just a reel to reel recording an acoustic guitar and then pressed to wax can be SO heavenly. people at home now on their computers or home work...sound...stations, just doesn't do it. for me. i'm not a total nostalgia buff either. i like lots of new stuff. i just don't like where a lot of people are going. unless its purely electronic. which would include rap.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 23:17 (eleven years ago) link
"As an artist, you need to incentivize the marketing company," he said, "and the business engine behind your music because if they aren't, they aren't going to do what it takes to move the boulder up the hill."
I kind of get what he's saying, but still...end times.
― recordbreaking transfer to Lucknow FC (seandalai), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
u can't just tease w/out spilling. what are they?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 23:33 (eleven years ago) link
i just mean along the lines of experimental/modern classical CDs that i've had sent to me. european dudes who do sound right. there are great labels that put stuff out that is audiophile-friendly. probably a lot that i've never heard that i couldn't afford! this label for instance does all their new releases on dvd audio and its like being on another planet:
http://www.electrocd.com/en/boutique/empreintesdigitales/
but even people like editions mego make high quality recordings. and techno people probably have their fave sound labels. they're out there, but not the mainstream. even a lot of great clssical labels aren't mainstream.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
all that schnittke stuff i got on deutsche grammophon CDs at that library book sale the other day...wow. just wow. i mean i can dig classical people going all digi and shit. (though at the moment i'm listening to a pristine mono columbia recording of the budapest quartet doing brahms quintets right now on vinyl and it is wow in a completely different way.)
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 23:54 (eleven years ago) link
the tech is out there. it has been out there! since before compact discs. i love some of the early digital recordings on vinyl. they sound great. its just been this weird one step forward one step back thing as far as pop/rock production goes. i don't know why. i mean their were always bad vinyl recordings too, but they usually weren't unlistenable like bad compact discs/digital productions can be to me. this has nothing to do with the RIAA...sorry.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 23:59 (eleven years ago) link
I basically disagree with the last ~100 posts. I'm no digital apologist, either. Techniques have changed, tastes have changed, equipment has changed, but I just can't agree that it's b/c of deprecated finances. People will happily hire a Timbaland for 10K a song (I'm picking him b/c I know his price); but for 10K in an analog studio you can do So Much.
Immediately Raphael Saadiq springs to mind, The Roots spring to mind-- I guess they're both the same pool-- Dap-Kings, I suppose. You've got Geoff Barrow making the best-'sounding' Kraut records I've heard outside of Can, all to tape, with an old Synthi...
But the part I do agree with is "there will never be another Blue Note" etc., just as there won't be another Radiohead or another Steely Dan. This is not to say that recorded music of that quality and calibre isn't possible to create, and it will be created. But the phenomenology of "super label" and "super band" is gone.
xp: OK, so this isn't about RIAA any more.
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Thursday, 21 June 2012 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
@ aero, re: producers. YES yes yes. And there are producers out there who push people around and have a distinct sound but I'm not going to name any of them or state my opinion of their aesthetic
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Thursday, 21 June 2012 00:11 (eleven years ago) link
yeah like i said i definitely know that there are people capable of making great sound recordings. because i've heard them. but i just think that it was more the norm than the exception in the times (past) that i'm talking about. and there are all kinds of reasons for that. money is only one reason.
― scott seward, Thursday, 21 June 2012 00:21 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks for the empreintes digitales recommendation, too
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Thursday, 21 June 2012 00:25 (eleven years ago) link
there used to be people who would very consciously make records that would sound good on an am transistor radio. just as steely dan and others would try to make the optimum fm radio listening experience. and now people tailor music for phones and computers. lots of highs and not a lot of lows. there are lots of different things that people take into account now. and that's even before you get into hardware and software and technology and recording and producing methods. and i don't always like the results! the cut & paste computer production sounds dead to me a lot of the time. (our lord and saviour max martin being one of the exceptions)
its a preference thing. and an age thing.
that's where i'm at. where the record companies come in as that once upon a time there were some good ears at the big labels. now i wonder if they even listen to what they put out at all. cuz some of it sounds really dreadful and i don't think they really care. a lot of the old villains did care! or at least the people they hired to care would care.
― scott seward, Thursday, 21 June 2012 00:32 (eleven years ago) link
In a way, I appreciate that consensus seemed to be reached in the 70s that dead, reverb-free environments constituted "good" studio sound, and a lot of artists were able to exploit that to the hilt (the Dan, Fleetwood Mac, Parliament). But it also meant that records as seemingly disparate as Darkness on the Edge of Town and Anthony Braxton's Creative Orchestra Music 1976 were hamstrung: as either Landau or Iovine pointed out in The Promise, even a million-selling artist like Springsteen couldn't record in a studio that didn't have carpet on the walls because now all studios had carpet on the walls. Springsteen and Braxton made some of their best work under a thick, shag pile.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Thursday, 21 June 2012 00:32 (eleven years ago) link
"People will happily hire a Timbaland for 10K a song (I'm picking him b/c I know his price); but for 10K in an analog studio you can do So Much."
this is key. and also has to do with not caring. in a way.
― scott seward, Thursday, 21 June 2012 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
Most of these guys existed at all only because there was such a thing as steady, paying studio work.
Not just that: they probably went to public schools with well-funded (or just plain funded) music programs. Such programs are few and far between, and are always first on the chopping block when municipalities make budget cuts.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Thursday, 21 June 2012 00:38 (eleven years ago) link
Meanwhile it's all washed up on Sullivan's shores:
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/06/who-pays-for-music-ctd.html
That link and this one are pretty much mostly responses and arguments so you're warned:
http://www.facebook.com/TheDishBlog/posts/410451945664597
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 21 June 2012 01:00 (eleven years ago) link
ha: http://www.theonion.com/articles/kid-rock-starves-to-death,342/
linked from the FB comments
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Thursday, 21 June 2012 01:08 (eleven years ago) link
People will happily hire a Timbaland for 10K a song (I'm picking him b/c I know his price)
um i hope you haven't hired him or you're gonna be pretty upset when the bill is ~20 times what you expected
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Thursday, 21 June 2012 01:14 (eleven years ago) link
believe it or not there's a button you can hit so you don't look like a bitch in public, nobody gives a shit if you don't find that discussion interesting
― frogbs, Thursday, 21 June 2012 01:29 (eleven years ago) link
if you know about the button why do you always look like a bitch
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Thursday, 21 June 2012 01:41 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know where you got that 200K/song figure some dude-- although I wouldn't be surprised-- I based my figure on the cost per track of Nelly Furtado's "Loose" (2006) and at the time thought "huh that's cheaper than I would've thought"
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Thursday, 21 June 2012 01:44 (eleven years ago) link
he probably charges a lower rate per track when doing a whole album but 10k would still be really low for him even in that case. guys in the Timbaland/Dr. Luke class of hitmaker are generally known for charging six figures per song.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Thursday, 21 June 2012 01:57 (eleven years ago) link
if money were no object I would offer a briefcase full of million dollar bills for a peak era timbaland song of my own
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:08 (eleven years ago) link
q: if Internet were available freely over the air, would that change how much you'd be willing to pay for music stuff? or media in general? feel like I'd be ok with that money usu set aside for broadband going towards my local newspaper's online edition, spotify, other things I usually expect for free when I pay for Internet service
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:12 (eleven years ago) link
shd say "expect will be free"feel like the newspaper industry's collapse is an interesting analog for which there is no similar moral highmindedness for using Craigslist instead of classifieds or reading news online for free or what have u
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:15 (eleven years ago) link
hey some dude & frogbs I flagged both of you for being grown men actually calling each other "bitch" like a couple of stupid fucking children
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:15 (eleven years ago) link
that's right you heard me I flagged your posts, the stain will be with them forever
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:16 (eleven years ago) link
hardest of men^^^^
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:18 (eleven years ago) link
will the RIAA Armageddon spare no one?!
― tylerw, Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:19 (eleven years ago) link
just saying that come the armageddon, our lives are gonna be like this movie so let's be cool w/ each otherhttp://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5uo1jET711qixyapo1_1280.jpg
― tylerw, Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:24 (eleven years ago) link
hey that movie is pg-13 I don't know if im allowed to see it, can u just give a (clean) synopsis?
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:25 (eleven years ago) link
lou ferrigno plays the dude from cracker
― tylerw, Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:26 (eleven years ago) link
whoa easy with the c-word
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:27 (eleven years ago) link
dude it is so insulting to kids to use the word "children" in a derogatory waythink of the children
― DJ Pete Campbell (Ówen P.), Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:33 (eleven years ago) link
not all children are stupid
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:15 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark
honest apology, man -- "he started it" is no excuse but i was just holding up a mirror for an easy zing, i honestly pretty much never throw around that word as an insult
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:34 (eleven years ago) link
speaking of armageddon, virus is public domain and in full on youtube so sleep easy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vBAwc23sD8
― scott seward, Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:44 (eleven years ago) link
i don't know about threads though...couldn't resist watching that on youtube last week...
― scott seward, Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:45 (eleven years ago) link
now people tailor music for phones and computers. lots of highs and not a lot of lows.
I don't know how much engineers actually do this. Maybe they do! In any case, don't agree that there aren't a lot of lows now. How much low end is there on "Climax" by Usher?
Sometimes I think "smiley face e.q." might be more of a problem? Lots of highs and lows and not much middle.
― timellison, Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:53 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.prefixmag.com/news/google-to-shut-down-youtube-ripping-sites/66492/
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Thursday, 21 June 2012 03:48 (eleven years ago) link
apology accepted & appreciated some dude I apologize for goin in too hard
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 21 June 2012 03:53 (eleven years ago) link
Meanwhile...
Japan has amended its anti-piracy laws to include penalties of up to two years in prison or a fine of up to 2 million yen (approx £16,000) for illegal downloaders.
― gonna send him to outer space, to hug another face (NickB), Thursday, 21 June 2012 14:18 (eleven years ago) link
smiley face e.q.!
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Thursday, 21 June 2012 14:38 (eleven years ago) link
side-face noise rating curve
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Thursday, 21 June 2012 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
aero, FP means never having to say you're sorry
ultimately I find it a little irritating that people get racism boners in threads that have fuck all to do with race but ymmv
― frogbs, Thursday, 21 June 2012 14:46 (eleven years ago) link
i only mentioned race in relation to you, because that is what people associate you with on this board now. entirely because of your actions.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Thursday, 21 June 2012 14:48 (eleven years ago) link
if there's a particular comment you have a problem with maybe call it out in the relevant thread, all this bullshit "lets earn brownie points for pointing out bad semantics in a frogs post, otherwise just call him a racist" can't be irritating to just the guy who's constantly under fire
― frogbs, Thursday, 21 June 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
oh i have no problem w/ irritating or ostracizing you, i thought that was obvious.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Thursday, 21 June 2012 14:52 (eleven years ago) link
some dude is awarded 10,000 brownie points for that post^^^
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 21 June 2012 14:53 (eleven years ago) link
frogbs repels intelligence like a duck repels water and if you call him on it you just get to watch him repel intelligence for 100 more posts. best to ignore imo.
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Thursday, 21 June 2012 14:55 (eleven years ago) link
lol you have literally not put together a remotely coherant reponse to any of the points i've brought up here, glass houses man
― frogbs, Thursday, 21 June 2012 14:57 (eleven years ago) link
c'mon dude
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 21 June 2012 14:59 (eleven years ago) link
like we literally have hundreds of posts here tearing down bad RIAA logic and now we're calling out posters who try to tear down that exact same logic, albeit in the context of "one of our own", how can you wish for intelligent discussion when the average response I get is "you said it's literally free, DO YOU THINK HARD DRIVES ARE FREE? do MB's just come out of thin air?"
― frogbs, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:00 (eleven years ago) link
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2009/2/99%20Oh,%20Russia.%20You%20crazy..jpg
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:00 (eleven years ago) link
and now we've divolved into pointing out spelling mistakes, bravo Mr. Q
― frogbs, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:01 (eleven years ago) link
"divolved"
― scott seward, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:03 (eleven years ago) link
divolution
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:04 (eleven years ago) link
jesus again with the mispelled words I get it you guys
― frogbs, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:05 (eleven years ago) link
frogbs when you entered this thread it was like a toddler in a superman costume coming downstairs to bug the adults. i don't say that with malice it's just... exactly what it was like.
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:06 (eleven years ago) link
sorry if my posting isn't acceptible to you guys, I just don't understand why you are so commited to this
― frogbs, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
and by adults i mean other people besides me, i'm not including myself in the "adult" party.
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
lol at him just spelling things wrong on purpose now
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
http://c1355372.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/4503c793-0b07-4f89-9cae-1169f8731c4b/crazy%20hungry%20man.jpg
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
it's just a drag to have an interesting conversation steered awry by a ton of thick b.s. xp
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
i think people ITT are a little too "poor diy musician of 2012, how doomed are they" tbh. 10 years ago you might spend a chunk of your own money pressing up CDs that you keep in the trunk of your car, unloading them little by little at merch tables and local shops, spending money on postage to send out promo copies, trying to get a bite. now you upload stuff, send out a few e-mails, and sometimes shit doesn't happen but a lot of times it really does, quickly and cheaply. there's something to be said for that.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
Matt, I know your either not willing to understand a simple fucking argument or proud of your ignorence, but if you can't understand why comparring physical goods to digital ones is terrible judgement, then your opinion is hardly relevent
― frogbs, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
hi
― am0n, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
now you upload stuff, send out a few e-mails, and sometimes shit doesn't happen but a lot of times it really does, quickly and cheaply. there's something to be said for that.
yeah, totally.
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
also lol @ this discussion being interesting before I came in, it was literaly 100 posts of "man FUCK that guy for calling out his intern" and "FUCK that guy for calling out the other guy", and "FUCK all you guys because I recorded an album and I didnt make a lot of money"
― frogbs, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:13 (eleven years ago) link
^ interesting point
― am0n, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:14 (eleven years ago) link
there were literally three posts before frogbs came in and that's exactly what they said
― he bit me (it felt like a diss) (m bison), Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:16 (eleven years ago) link
Gunning for fifbsy-one I see
― robert mcnamara in reverse (loves laboured breathing), Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:27 (eleven years ago) link
now you upload stuff, send out a few e-mails, and sometimes shit doesn't happen but a lot of times it really does, quickly and cheaply. there's something to be said for that.yeah, totally.
Yeah, totally, which is why I still get a shit-ton of press releases from publicists hired by bands. I'll give you saving moneys on promos, though.
Hey, I have no idea, but are publicists making less money these days? Charging less money?
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
i think people ITT are a little too "poor diy musician of 2012, how doomed are they" tbh.
― Forgbs Magazine (Ówen P.), Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
Now we get to see stuff like this on Kickstarter:
Even the greatest works of art need help reaching people and can use a serious promotional effort. Our goal here is to raise $6,000, which would enable us to hire a publicist (who will get the recording on the desk of music editors, in the media, on prominent blogs, etc.) and start an east coast tour in support of the album. Although $6,000 is only a portion of what it will take to release and promote this new CD, we want to meet the strict 100% funding goals of Kick Starter (as you may already know, if we don't reach our goal, all of the money raised is returned and the project won't be funded).
Elikeh is a Washington, DC Afropop band with members from West Africa and the US. The style is a combination of 70's Afro-funk, with some Togolese rhythms, rock, reggae, Afro-beats.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
Publicists aren't charging any less, lawyers aren't charging any less-- happily the digital age means that you get more for your money in hiring a publicist. Looking at a publicist's response sheet is like, "whoa, you do a lot of work, huh" xp
― Forgbs Magazine (Ówen P.), Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
oh the publicist e-mail/blogosphere aspect of putting out a record today can definitely be pretty shitty in its own way. i'm just saying that in many ways things are BETTER now for broke musicians than they used to be, in terms of how much they have to spend just for any chance of getting heard, etc.
― here's my lumber, so jack me maybe (some dude), Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
the plight of the publicist in the late-capitalist digital era
― am0n, Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:48 (eleven years ago) link
curmudgeon that sounds like something cool & worth supporting that would have had to hope Shanachie or RealWorld granted it favor - is that your point? to me the nice thing about kickstarter is the occasional cool-thing-nobody-would-have-supported can reach an audience of only people who're already interested
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 21 June 2012 16:50 (eleven years ago) link
My point was only to show the ongoing role of the publicist and how some indie artists seek money to pay them
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 21 June 2012 17:20 (eleven years ago) link
Elikeh met that Kickstarter goal and so some folks here like me who have reviewed whirled music will likely get emails from a publicist re their album and upcoming tour
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 21 June 2012 17:22 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I think people who deny the usefulness of publicists don't generally know what they're talking about. unfortunately amanda palmer's kickstarter is gonna be the new King of Limbs: "She made a million 'just by starting a Kickstarter,'* therefore that's possible for everybody"
*lol
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 21 June 2012 17:27 (eleven years ago) link
seems like publicists might be even more important now, given the signal to noise ratio that i assume writers/media outlets deal with?
― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Thursday, 21 June 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
oh yeah i forgot about that. did she really end up making a million? land of opportunity right here.
― scott seward, Thursday, 21 June 2012 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
wowee 1.1 mill! this is the future of music indeed.
― scott seward, Thursday, 21 June 2012 17:51 (eleven years ago) link
that album better not suck.
better be THE GREATEST ALBUM EVER MADE.
― scott seward, Thursday, 21 June 2012 17:52 (eleven years ago) link
In Rainbows. Not King Of Limbs.
Love, yr friendly neighbourhood Radiohead fanatic
― White Chocolate Cheesecake, Thursday, 21 June 2012 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
those are the same album just w/diff names tho right?
― decrepit but free (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 21 June 2012 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
every radiohead album is the same album with different names.
― scott seward, Thursday, 21 June 2012 18:00 (eleven years ago) link
that bus monitor who got mocked by those kids is doing Amanda Palmer numbershttp://www.indiegogo.com/loveforkarenhklein?c=home
― Number None, Thursday, 21 June 2012 18:04 (eleven years ago) link
http://yourkickstartersucks.tumblr.com/
― am0n, Thursday, 21 June 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
Countdown until someone stages a sham bully attack for guilt-dollars in 5... 4... 3...
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 22 June 2012 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
so is the July 12 clampdown still on? CDs are good on the merch table, esp after shows, for cranked-up impulse buys. Also, they'll long outlive downloads, mysteriously subject to corruption no matter where you store 'em. So, though I'm more likely to say, "Sure, send me the link," even when the pitch is badly written (figure they won't be wasting their postage etc, so no guilt-tripping myself), I have to fgure how many backups will I make of each such promo, and where will I store it. Plus, I spend a lot more time downloading etc than I ever did opening envelopes. Oh well. July 12, eh?
― dow, Friday, 22 June 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
this starts today?
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ISP-Six-Strikes-to-Begin-This-Weekend-120119?nocomment=1
― scott seward, Sunday, 1 July 2012 20:02 (eleven years ago) link
so basically if you spend time on filesharing sites, you'll be given warnings by your ISP? i just downloaded a promo from a publicist on sendspace -- am i in trouble?
― tylerw, Sunday, 1 July 2012 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
my ol' dirty armchair projection, from email response to a friend wondering about what's in it for ISPs:"Do they want to get rid of broadband subscribers?" welll...
There's already at least the possibility of charging subscribers more, justified by the cost of policing. So far, some/most providers, spooked by screaming customers etc, have had to ease the cap (for my DSL, and I guess some other thingies) in place, or keep it hovering gently overhead (no way I'm ever going to even brush ATT's current cap). But this might be a way of motivating me to upgrade--if my rate for this same ol' service is increasing from 42.95 to 60.00 anyway, why not pay say 80.00 and actually get more stuff? Including legit downloads--still paying a bit more if I exceed the cap, but either way guaranteed legit by my provider. Continuing the partition of the Web of course, and hey check our App Store! Provider galaxies of app-wormholes side by side in the Fecesbookeverse, till something bigger and hungrier comes along.
― dow, Monday, 2 July 2012 19:01 (eleven years ago) link
Like with the price of an iPod, why not pay even more (but not too much more)to get even more, when the iPhone comes along? And then--the iPad!
― dow, Monday, 2 July 2012 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
Are you saying 'why not double my internet bill?'
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 2 July 2012 20:47 (eleven years ago) link
so has this actually come into effect?
― buh, Monday, 2 July 2012 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
it's a mystery.
― scott seward, Monday, 2 July 2012 20:56 (eleven years ago) link
how disconcerting
― buh, Monday, 2 July 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
i just hope when the feds come, they're these feds. http://www.moviegoods.com/Assets/product_images/1020/248247.1020.A.jpg
― tylerw, Monday, 2 July 2012 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
first one to get sued must post letter on ILM.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 2 July 2012 21:00 (eleven years ago) link
Ha, Fred Thompson. The irony.
― Chuck? Chuck? It's me, your cousin, Marvin D (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 2 July 2012 21:04 (eleven years ago) link
Getting busted by Rebecca and Mary--so worth it!
― dow, Monday, 2 July 2012 21:32 (eleven years ago) link
sleep tight america
― tylerw, Monday, 2 July 2012 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
(refrains from suggested wordplay)
― dow, Monday, 2 July 2012 21:37 (eleven years ago) link
i used to listen to all the records at my library when i was a kid. they had pretty decent listening stations. i learned all the words to doors songs that way.― scott seward, Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:50 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― scott seward, Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:50 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i like that.my library where i grew up used to loan out paintings as well as records. the paintings were awful.each record sleeve had a card in it with two circles preprinted, where the scratches could be recorded with a pen. that way the library worker could check if there were any new scratches on the record when i brought it back.whenever i went to flick through the record sleeves, cozy powell's 'tilt' was always in the rack.
― For bodies we are ready to build pyramids (whatever), Wednesday, 4 July 2012 07:23 (eleven years ago) link
So....is this happening? I did a quick Google search but the results were from before 7/12.
― musicfanatic, Thursday, 26 July 2012 01:46 (eleven years ago) link
for whatever reason the ISPs seem to have the upper hand here.
― skip, Thursday, 26 July 2012 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
in what sense? Standing up for us? Or for The Man?
― dow, Thursday, 26 July 2012 02:55 (eleven years ago) link
standing up for "us" - despite the bandwidth shaping, throttling etc. They probably just don't want other industries meddling in their affairs or set the precedent of letting Hollywood (in reality, a current and future competitor) boss them around, even if they couldn't care less about whether their customers get frogmarched for downloading a few Nickelback tracks.
― skip, Thursday, 26 July 2012 03:06 (eleven years ago) link
The sticking point in Aus and NZ is that the content industries want the ISPs to pay for all the policing, and the ISPs are (rightly) pushing back. I presume a similar thing will transpire in the US.
― undermikey: bidness (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 26 July 2012 03:37 (eleven years ago) link
Having failed to pass SOPA, they are trying again, and what they have learned from last time is: this time, keep a tighter lid on the details of the bill until after it passes
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2012/07/trans_pacific_partnership_agreement_tpp_could_radically_alter_intellectual_property_law.html
The only thing that I knew with certainty was that I didn’t know much about what was happening in the TPP negotiations, and therefore I couldn’t offer much in the way of substantive questions and input, which was the point that I wanted to make to the negotiators. Other than “cleared advisors”—primarily industry representatives—no one outside the inner circle knows what is currently being negotiated in TPP. Most members of Congress do not even know what is in TPP. Indeed, the last publicly available text of TPP’s intellectual property chapter is a leaked version dated Feb. 10, 2011. Nonetheless, the goal of the “stakeholder engagement event,” as the TPP “Welcome Stakeholders!” packet explained, was to provide an “open and productive forum.” Yet the public knows more about the aggregate numbers of nuclear warheads the United States and Russia have deployed on intercontinental and submarine-launched ballistic missiles under the New Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty than it does about U.S. negotiating positions in TPP. Thus, on “openness,” the TPP negotiators and USTR have failed.
― Milton Parker, Monday, 30 July 2012 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
Keep it up guys, it just brings the day we burn your office buildings down with you inside that much closer.
― Amoeba, Fish, Monkey, Shame (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 05:47 (eleven years ago) link
The NASA Curiosity team had to overcome many obstacles to land their robot safely on the surface of the Red Planet. But one obstacle they were probably not expecting to encounter was an accusation of copyright infringement.The American space agency has been posting videos related to the Curiosity mission on its official YouTube page. But the Motherboard blog noticed that one of the videos had disappeared. In its place was the message "This video contains content from Scripps Local News, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."NASA is a federal agency, and by law, works of the federal government are in the public domain. And in any event, it's hard to see how Scripps could own footage of NASA scientists celebrating Curiosity's successful landing in their own control room. So NASA complained to YouTube, and the video was restored within a few hours.“We apologize for the temporary inconvenience experienced when trying to upload and view a NASA clip early Monday morning," a Scripps spokesman told Motherboard. "We made a mistake. We reacted as quickly as possible to make the video viewable again, and we’ve adjusted our workflow processes to remedy the situation in future.”Mistakes happen. But "accidents" like this have become disturbingly common. Last month, an overzealous music publisher took down videos of Barack Obama singing a line from one of its songs (then, as now, YouTube eventually reviewed and reversed the takedown).A NASA spokesman says that its content gets erroneously taken down about once a month. They've been asking YouTube to fix the problem but "it hasn't helped much." If a prominent federal agency like NASA struggles with unfair takedowns, what hope do the rest of us have of getting YouTube's attention when our videos are taken down?http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/as-curiosity-touches-down-on-mars-video-is-taken-down-from-youtube/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+All+content%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
The American space agency has been posting videos related to the Curiosity mission on its official YouTube page. But the Motherboard blog noticed that one of the videos had disappeared. In its place was the message "This video contains content from Scripps Local News, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."
NASA is a federal agency, and by law, works of the federal government are in the public domain. And in any event, it's hard to see how Scripps could own footage of NASA scientists celebrating Curiosity's successful landing in their own control room. So NASA complained to YouTube, and the video was restored within a few hours.
“We apologize for the temporary inconvenience experienced when trying to upload and view a NASA clip early Monday morning," a Scripps spokesman told Motherboard. "We made a mistake. We reacted as quickly as possible to make the video viewable again, and we’ve adjusted our workflow processes to remedy the situation in future.”
Mistakes happen. But "accidents" like this have become disturbingly common. Last month, an overzealous music publisher took down videos of Barack Obama singing a line from one of its songs (then, as now, YouTube eventually reviewed and reversed the takedown).
A NASA spokesman says that its content gets erroneously taken down about once a month. They've been asking YouTube to fix the problem but "it hasn't helped much." If a prominent federal agency like NASA struggles with unfair takedowns, what hope do the rest of us have of getting YouTube's attention when our videos are taken down?
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/as-curiosity-touches-down-on-mars-video-is-taken-down-from-youtube/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+All+content%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 04:52 (eleven years ago) link
http://torrentfreak.com/demonoid-busted-as-a-gift-to-the-united-states-government-120806/
― Mordy, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 04:54 (eleven years ago) link
=(
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 05:00 (eleven years ago) link
I noticed the green one wasn't working lately. So sad to see it go. RIP
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 05:02 (eleven years ago) link
no big deal it'll be back soon
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 05:04 (eleven years ago) link
loving the comments on that torrentfreak article
PRIVACY is priceless to me 11 minutes agoUkraine is a U$ slave-colony since at least 2004, they just love being slaves obeing worse-than-nazi U$ orders like they loved killing jews for the germans in the 40's.And also, Russia isn't any better now than it was in 1980, it's even worse.
― steven fucking tyler (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 10:30 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, fuck that ukraine that is part of the usa and also russia
― undermikey: bidness (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 11:53 (eleven years ago) link
torrent community entitlement is probably the worst entitlement going atm
― undermikey: bidness (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 11:54 (eleven years ago) link
obeing
Thought this was some new weird anti-Obama word for a minute.
― Blind, Pregnant, Gay, Royal (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 12:34 (eleven years ago) link
obeyma
― Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 13:14 (eleven years ago) link
Well!
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57521208-93/new-zealand-pm-apologizes-to-kim-dotcom-case-unraveling/
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 27 September 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
Clearly they did not take any lessons from the Americans by finding a lawyer to tell them spying was legal before doing it, and also not apologizing.
Basically what I'm saying is that they should have just taken Kim Dotcom out with a drone.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 27 September 2012 18:51 (eleven years ago) link
LaMonte Young would've wasted him.
― 5-Hour Enmity (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 27 September 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
"Conrad. Tony Conrad."
*BA-DA-BA-DAAAA-BA-DA-DA*
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 27 September 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
Wouldn't it just be *BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...*
― Half Jaglom Half Winkler (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Friday, 28 September 2012 07:12 (eleven years ago) link
NZ Herald reporting on this mess is double-plus next level: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10837683
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 02:25 (eleven years ago) link
Pir@te B@y has been down for a day or two.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 3 October 2012 07:09 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.avclub.com/articles/liveuniverse-owes-music-publishers-66-million-for,86629
― Mordy, Friday, 12 October 2012 22:52 (eleven years ago) link
chasing that final dollar
― Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Friday, 12 October 2012 23:01 (eleven years ago) link
''who knew that posting lyrics online was illegal?'' doesn't everybody know lyrics are copywritten?
― zvookster, Friday, 12 October 2012 23:06 (eleven years ago) link
can't wait 'til rapgenius gets hit tbh
― zvookster, Friday, 12 October 2012 23:07 (eleven years ago) link
a $6.6 million default judgment on Tuesday for posting the lyrics to 528 songs
That's $12,500 for lyrics to a each song.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 13 October 2012 01:55 (eleven years ago) link
Alleged AT&T training doc:http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/13/atandt-training-document-piracy/
― dow, Sunday, 14 October 2012 14:30 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/18/tech/web/copyright-alert-system/index.html?ctp=1
― sleeve, Monday, 22 October 2012 14:11 (eleven years ago) link
i don't understand the strategy. is it to ramp up annoyances to make it more costly to pirates, without having to go all the way to turning off their service (thus losing customers) or suing them (costing money, taking time)?
― j., Monday, 22 October 2012 17:30 (eleven years ago) link
i figure they think a large percentage of casual pirates will be scared straight just by getting a warning
― Binders Full of Mittens (President Keyes), Monday, 22 October 2012 17:56 (eleven years ago) link
just dont use public trackrse
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 22 October 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A9y1x4vCYAADw4K.png
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 11 December 2012 04:31 (eleven years ago) link
how do u copyright a man's dream
― Gukbe, Tuesday, 11 December 2012 04:36 (eleven years ago) link
You buy the dream's IPR.
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/emi-strikes-deal-with-martin-luther-king-jr-estate/
― BANJOS ARE ALWAYS RACIST (onimo), Wednesday, 12 December 2012 14:02 (eleven years ago) link
go king you got keep it up lav ya
― BANJOS ARE ALWAYS RACIST (onimo), Wednesday, 12 December 2012 14:03 (eleven years ago) link
got something in my mediafire account saying my own EP is copyrighted and cannot be shared. sent them an angry email. :|
― hemioblock (The Reverend), Sunday, 6 January 2013 00:37 (eleven years ago) link
they're just trying to protect you from yourself.
― tylerw, Sunday, 6 January 2013 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
Lol!
― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Sunday, 6 January 2013 03:31 (eleven years ago) link
so they say there was a copyright claim on one of my tracks by an electro-house act called Kinky Board, who I'd never even heard of. the track in question didn't even use any samples of any sort, just soft-synths and copyright-free drum patches, so I have no idea why they're even bothering me with this shit.
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 9 January 2013 10:40 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5Q-g0e1HNM
― said the brohaim to the cochise (how's life), Wednesday, 9 January 2013 12:46 (eleven years ago) link
Mediafire links have been going down a lot lately. Is anything up with that?
― future kendricks (longneck), Friday, 11 January 2013 18:54 (eleven years ago) link
They're now the #1 service to monitor, I guess? Closest thing to a MU replacement?
― the dyspeptic Hirax (Jon Lewis), Friday, 11 January 2013 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
mediafire's been got to. most links i've looked at recently is down and provides you with a link to purchase the same or similar files from amazon.com et al. this is particularly frustrating with out-of-print albums, where they'll like, link to a greatest hits album where you can find one song from the oop album.
― how's life, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:22 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I also had an unreleased album by an obscure artist who never got a release date and an old mixtape, both early-mid 2000s era that I was hosting and were taken down too, but I didn't contest them. I don't see who it profits to take those down, though. It's not like anyone was making money off of either in the first place.
― The Reverend, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
They still haven't gotten back to me about my protest of innocence over my own track tho.
― The Reverend, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
The funny thing is I had way more egregious bending of copyrights on the account that didn't get flagged, DJ mixes, remixes of popular songs released on major labels, but instead some track that didn't use anyone else's material at all gets flagged. I can't make sense of it.
― The Reverend, Friday, 11 January 2013 19:52 (eleven years ago) link
ok, they resolved this issue and the file's no longer flagged
― The Reverend, Sunday, 13 January 2013 10:02 (eleven years ago) link
good to hear!
― how's life, Sunday, 13 January 2013 12:30 (eleven years ago) link
Kim Dotcom wants to encrypt half of the Internet to end government surveillance
https://rt.com/usa/news/kim-dotcom-interview-mega-673/
― am0n, Friday, 25 January 2013 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
man they REALLY crushed these sites didn't they. I haven't been able to find anything on mediafire, rapidshare etc for months now. oh well. it was never meant to last anyway. back to waiting years to find used vinyl copies of old stuff, I guess.
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 31 January 2013 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
Gordon Lightfoot's first album "Lightfoot!" for ex.
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 31 January 2013 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
I think there are other reasons that might not be available.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 January 2013 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
so much old country, folk, bluegrass stuff that was never officially released digitally is what I'm really missing
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 31 January 2013 20:45 (eleven years ago) link
just found Lightfoot! within a few minutes. it's tougher, but you can still find stuff.
― berner herzog (fadanuf4erybody), Thursday, 31 January 2013 20:51 (eleven years ago) link
where
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 31 January 2013 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
I have oink invites if you need one.
― Women, Fire, and Dangerous Zings (silby), Thursday, 31 January 2013 21:03 (eleven years ago) link
i'm insulted that you went searching for some prime early Gord cuts without consulting your old buddy profgbs first
― frogbs, Thursday, 31 January 2013 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
soulseek, homie.
― :C (crüt), Thursday, 31 January 2013 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
what? (.cd)
― Mordy, Thursday, 31 January 2013 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
I hate soulseek, not installing a P2P app on my work laptop sorry
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 31 January 2013 21:27 (eleven years ago) link
I'm crossposting my post from the Spotify thread since this issue concerns all digital delivery modes and is RIAArmageddon to the max:
So it turns out I'm not crazy, my ears weren't playing tricks on me, and there is a reason just about all spotify tracks (and emusic and amazon downloads etc) originating from UMG labels sound weird and fluttery. It's not, as I presumed, a defect in the codec they used to digitise their holdings; rather, it's a deliberately introduced, ostensibly 'inaudible' sonic watermark. Even the flacs you can buy of UMG material from sites like Passionato have it. The only way to get a good-sounding file of a UMG track is to... yes... buy it from UMG's own webstore. Where they only offer a scant sliver of their material anyway.
Mystery was unraveled here:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=89818
And neatly summarized here:
http://www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-watermark
So yeah do not ever pay money for a digital file of anything on Island, Motown, ECM, Deutsche Grammophon, Decca, Def Jam, Blue Note, Impulse, the list goes on and on and on. And if yr listening to it on Spotify, yes it sounds fucked up on purpose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Universal_Music_Group_labels
(This all belongs just as much on the RIAA Armageddon thread I suppose, since the watermarks are supposed to be a way for the label to know what digital vendor an illegally shared file was originally bought from).
― hibernaculum (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:18 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― hibernaculum (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 31 January 2013 22:59 (eleven years ago) link
that really is crazy
― tylerw, Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:01 (eleven years ago) link
xp Yeah that is absolutely crazy...maybe not so many people care about sound quality anymore but the optics of a company sabotaging their digital catalogue, if it becomes common knowledge, could scupper the uptake of legal downloading.
― questino (seandalai), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:02 (eleven years ago) link
The problem here is that the UMG watermark degrades the audio to about the equivalent of a 96 kbit MP3.
yikes
― questino (seandalai), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:04 (eleven years ago) link
wtf
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:06 (eleven years ago) link
god digital distro sucks so hard
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:07 (eleven years ago) link
if you want to really hear it big time listen to any solo piano recording.
― hibernaculum (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:10 (eleven years ago) link
the sad part of this is that we're finally at a stage were -- and i know ppl make fun of neil young and his PONO project -- but 24bit digital audio sounds really fucking great and hard drive space is so cheap now and broadband is so prevalent that we could be living in a pretty amazing age of easy hi-fi digital music, good DACs are really coming down in price
― downton arby (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:11 (eleven years ago) link
Lots of the indie classical labels are selling reasonable lossless and lossless+ downloads through their own sites. But yeah.
― hibernaculum (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:19 (eleven years ago) link
oh yeah i mean there's sites that sell them, it just sucks that we're probably going to be saddled with the digital equilalent of cassette forever
― downton arby (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:32 (eleven years ago) link
I hear the MPAA is gonna start having a few frames per minute of a different exec wiggling his dong in all prints they send out to various theater chains. Birthmarks and wart clusters will be used to identify the source of pirated films. The slight penile-induced reduction of picture quality will be a small price to pay for this reactionary anti-piracy intitiative which will do nothing to end piracy.
― The Last Starfucker (Old Lunch), Thursday, 31 January 2013 23:37 (eleven years ago) link
god digital distro sucks so hard― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:07 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkif you want to really hear it big time listen to any solo piano recording.― hibernaculum (Jon Lewis), Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:10 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:07 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― hibernaculum (Jon Lewis), Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:10 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
really interesting - last night I set the clock to 420 and listened to the Sun Bear Concerts (on ECM), which I have digitally - and I'm sitting there staring at the speakers goin "man...I know for a fact I love this record...but that just does not sound right at all...fuck...back to Slayer I guess"
this morning I checked again and the fucked-ness was nowhere near as obvious to me but under the right circumstances what the shitty encoding/watermarking is costing you is like glaringly obvious
― available for sporting events (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 1 February 2013 01:46 (eleven years ago) link
if only anyone on this message board wrote for any widely-trafficked music or political websites or print magazines
sound the alarm you guys, this is vandalism
― Milton Parker, Friday, 1 February 2013 01:54 (eleven years ago) link
yeah this seems like it should become a bigger story, reminds me of the Sony rootkit fiasco.
― sleeve, Friday, 1 February 2013 02:17 (eleven years ago) link
I def noticed this when listening to alice coltrane stuff on spotify, but the deluxe edition of the slits' cut sounded fine to me... unless that reissue wasn't on island...
a little off topic, but one thing I really like about spotify is that they put up various versions of albums, remasters and reissues, so sometimes I'll listen to a couple to figure out which sound best
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Friday, 1 February 2013 02:44 (eleven years ago) link
Some kinds of 'sound picture' do seem to show it much more than others.
― hibernaculum (Jon Lewis), Friday, 1 February 2013 02:51 (eleven years ago) link
There's plenty of used vinyl out there.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 1 February 2013 03:43 (eleven years ago) link
I remember swearing off itunes almost a decade ago after hearing how terrible stuff like martha argerich and the velvets 3rd album sounded on it
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Friday, 1 February 2013 06:36 (eleven years ago) link
what sucks hardest about this for me is that I got spotify premium specifically to listen to opera. Decca? DG? that's a lotta opera at 96k.
― available for sporting events (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 1 February 2013 13:42 (eleven years ago) link
I got it mainly for the Bluenote jazz
― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Friday, 1 February 2013 13:47 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno maybe you guys should try listening to some metal or sumthin
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Friday, 1 February 2013 13:56 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe one day I will give metal a go when I'm older
― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Friday, 1 February 2013 13:57 (eleven years ago) link
Bluenote = a UMG label
― hibernaculum (Jon Lewis), Friday, 1 February 2013 16:26 (eleven years ago) link
Aero there's still shit tons of vintage live opera labels on there. And EMI/Virgin and Warner and Sony/RCA.
― hibernaculum (Jon Lewis), Friday, 1 February 2013 16:29 (eleven years ago) link
anybody noticed sonic probs on watermarked promos? I haven't yet.
― dow, Friday, 1 February 2013 16:30 (eleven years ago) link
― Milton Parker, Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:54 PM (Yesterday)
― Z S, Friday, 1 February 2013 16:33 (eleven years ago) link
this post will be underappreciated
Anyway, yeah, this is horrific and this should be a much, much larger story than it is.
― HAPPY BDAY TOOTS (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 1 February 2013 16:33 (eleven years ago) link
it seriously pisses me off but what the fuck can anybody do
― available for sporting events (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 1 February 2013 19:31 (eleven years ago) link
Man, I knew Spotify sounded weird!
does last.fm have the same problem? I don't listen to the radio there but I was just about to get a subscription... (seems like it should, right?)
IMO this deserves its own thread
― frogbs, Friday, 1 February 2013 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
this is nuts!!
― original bgm, Friday, 1 February 2013 20:12 (eleven years ago) link
the difference waveforms sound really cool
― :C (crüt), Friday, 1 February 2013 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
The only thing I can imagine is maybe apple making a stance against it the same way they changed their stance towards DRM.
Though ironically it seems that's when UMG began watermarking, when DRM went out of fashion...
― hibernaculum (Jon Lewis), Friday, 1 February 2013 20:22 (eleven years ago) link
i wouldn't be surprised if a lot more of this sort of thing has happened post-drm tbh
― suze (Matt P), Friday, 1 February 2013 20:25 (eleven years ago) link
I wouldn't even care one damn bit if it actually were an 'inaudible' watermark!
― hibernaculum (Jon Lewis), Friday, 1 February 2013 20:33 (eleven years ago) link
is this grounds for some kind of legal action? say from ascap or someone. i know 0 about publisher/artist agreements and copyright law.
― suze (Matt P), Friday, 1 February 2013 20:48 (eleven years ago) link
Seems like more grounds for legal action from ppl who have spent money on defective flacs, M4As and MP3s.
― hibernaculum (Jon Lewis), Friday, 1 February 2013 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, this is a nice class action suit waiting to happen
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Monday, 4 February 2013 03:21 (eleven years ago) link
sue these assholes for a change
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Monday, 4 February 2013 03:22 (eleven years ago) link
one thing that really annoys me about these filesharing sites going down is that now I can no longer find stuff digitally that I already paid for/previously purchased in other formats. like, I'll be fucked if I'm going to give the Rolling Stones any more money just because I would like to hear Beggars Banquet on MP3 and my cassette copy is dead
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 8 February 2013 18:04 (eleven years ago) link
Along those lines, it's so much easier for me to download a boxed set than to sit in front of my computer feeding CDs (which I already own and paid for) in one at a time.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 8 February 2013 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
Hence the Amazon AutoRip thing...
― try a little crowleymass (Jon Lewis), Friday, 8 February 2013 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
If I bought it from Amazon, right?
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 8 February 2013 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah you have to have bought it through Amazon. Cute idea though.
― try a little crowleymass (Jon Lewis), Friday, 8 February 2013 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
It's quicker to download a CD than it is for me to actually go to the basement, dig out the box, find it, and rip it. In fact, it's usually quicker to download it than do any one of those steps.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 8 February 2013 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
either way the metadata is always off, like [DISC 2] of what, hmmmm????
― administrator galina (Matt P), Friday, 8 February 2013 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
the library of congress does a better job than all these idiots and it doesn't actually own anything
― administrator galina (Matt P), Friday, 8 February 2013 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
Doh i just lost another video i had done to youtube. I had taken vocals from a Beatles song and rewritten the backing track to be performed with videogame samples. It was pulled offline this morning. Doesn't surprise me, but it still kinda sucks.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 9 February 2013 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
damn totally noticing this UMG shit now :(
listening to Gaucho by steely dan and it's very noticable.
― downton arby (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 11 February 2013 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
ugh the thought of hearing watermarked cybergunked gaucho is so sad
― brimstead, Monday, 11 February 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
very very noticeable esp on the female backing vox :(
― downton arby (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 11 February 2013 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
I have been asking around
Universal is also doing this to the soundtracks of all of their cinematic release films to prevent bootlegging. They're utterly open about it inside the industry, it's mandatory for all their partners, though clearly they don't want it to get out that they are compromising audio quality for the sake of copy protection.
This is an even more critical application for them: bootlegs & torrents of films that are still in the theater are a huge revenue loss. But their solution is to do this, across the board, to all of their films.
Arguably this impacts films more, where the soundtracks are of a greater dynamic range, because this is most audible during the quiet parts, and there are more of them in films.
― Milton Parker, Monday, 11 February 2013 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
insanity
― sleeve, Monday, 11 February 2013 22:06 (eleven years ago) link
it's like pissing on your sandwich so nobody else will eat it
― walloreinhart (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 11 February 2013 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
isn't that just an Aussie thing?
― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Monday, 11 February 2013 22:14 (eleven years ago) link
It's not to prevent bootlegging per se, right, it's to be able to tell where the bootleg derived from?
Milton thank you for digging! Any everyone itt. I am so glad ppl care about this fuckery.
― try a little crowleymass (Jon Lewis), Monday, 11 February 2013 22:23 (eleven years ago) link
today is the day, apparently.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/02/25/six_strikes_copyright_enforcement_system_launches_will_throttle_your_bandwidth.html
http://www.dailydot.com/news/copyright-alerts-how-to-download-upload-hide/
― j., Tuesday, 26 February 2013 04:02 (eleven years ago) link
VPN, here I come!
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 04:56 (eleven years ago) link
yay local ISP
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 05:01 (eleven years ago) link
^^^^
― ta-nehisi goatse (fadanuf4erybody), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 05:02 (eleven years ago) link
I wish we had a local ISP still.
But for all the hullabaloo about the CAS, there’s really only one action it flags. The program will try to catch anyone who uploads an established, copyrighted file using peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing software, such as BitTorrent.
Not anyone who pirates using a file locker service like Megaupload. Not anyone who only downloads from P2P file-sharing services. Not even someone who slightly alters a file, uploads it for a short while on a P2P program, then stops before someone who works for the CAS notices.
Just uploaders.
Really? Still? I mean, awesome, America will just be leeching off of the rest of the civilized world. Some more. (smugface)
― new hope for orang-utan (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 05:05 (eleven years ago) link
I'd always heard it's uploading that gets you in trouble. It's not downloading the new matchbox 20 album (what, just me?), it's sharing it with everyone else.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 05:12 (eleven years ago) link
Right, that was what they were suing about before. I'm just surprised they're continuing with that and not going after downloaders as well.
― new hope for orang-utan (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 05:14 (eleven years ago) link
I think it's pretty hard, with bit torrent. You're downloading from dozens of places at once, in bits and pieces. But if you have something and you're sharing it, not just bits of it but all of it, you're a much easier target.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 05:25 (eleven years ago) link
Reminds me of a story my dad told me of getting pulled over in the middle of the night in Texas. He'd been speeding through the desert when he saw the cop lights, and per local law, they had to go wake up the judge to settle things that night. Everyone's tired, everyone's tired, and my dad asks, after paying up: "Everyone out there was speeding, too, so why did you pull me over?'
The cop's answer: "we'll get them next time."
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 05:28 (eleven years ago) link
if you torrent, and share the torrent pieces as you get them (per default), then your ip address is visible unless you've taken some measures to hide it. whether or not you're flagged (e.g. to receive a warning via your isp, passing on the threat from the copyright holder) depends on whether someone is dedicating any resources to noting that you have been uploading (even as a torrent user). i suspect, from past experience, that this is more likely the more high-volume a thing you're stealing. (more commercial, more downloaders, closer to commercial release dates, etc.)
― j., Tuesday, 26 February 2013 05:54 (eleven years ago) link
PrivateInternetAccess gets me speeds pretty much identical to not being connected to a VPN, fwiw.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 06:00 (eleven years ago) link
you guys could just stop stealing shit
― wk, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 06:32 (eleven years ago) link
good one.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 06:35 (eleven years ago) link
shakes fist
― wk, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 07:06 (eleven years ago) link
Still trusting my nntp USENET source of choice.
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 08:55 (eleven years ago) link
Would appreciate VPN service recommendations though.
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 08:56 (eleven years ago) link
seedbox is da bomb
― give me back my 200 dollars (NotEnough), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 09:13 (eleven years ago) link
Seedbox looks cool, but looks more appealing to people for whom downloading is a much more than casual endeavor. Like, competitive seeders, private server kings, etc.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 13:55 (eleven years ago) link
I have been happy with Private Internet Access for VPN. I mostly use it to watch US Netflix and blackedout NHL games, but its pretty cheap and pretty reliable.
― sofatruck, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
I'm pretty hardassed about only dl'ing things that I either can't purchase (OOP etc.) or have already purchased in another format (cuz really why should I have to buy something twice. Prince Among Thieves is great, I spent $20 on the vinyl when it came out, now I have to buy it again in MP3 format? fuck you)
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 19:45 (eleven years ago) link
What Shakey said.
I should stop stealing shit, right after I stop buying music on eBay too, right? I'd feel a lot worse about stealing music if there wasn't a gigantic, state-sanctioned secondary market doing the same thing.
― Actually, I did build it you fucktard (dandydonweiner), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 20:23 (eleven years ago) link
Music was pretty awesome before the RIAA started imho. Every house had a piano. People learned how to play songs their own way. You could get a job playing music along to a movie in a theater. Etc etc etc
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:29 (eleven years ago) link
...Beck's new album is going to be released as sheet music....
― m0stlyClean, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:51 (eleven years ago) link
that already happened
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:53 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, a bunch NPR dorks recorded their own versions
― gentle german fatherly voice (President Keyes), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 23:09 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/recorded-music-industry-revenue-rises-424574
Music industry revenue rose last year for the first time since 1999.
― kendrick delmar - good kid, f.U.C.k. you (The Reverend), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 23:41 (eleven years ago) link
too bad approximately zero of that growth went to actual musicians. looks like most of it came from subscription services, which don't pay shit.
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 23:50 (eleven years ago) link
but they're easier than P2P so who cares right
they pay more than p2p
― iatee, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 23:51 (eleven years ago) link
sometimes
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 23:55 (eleven years ago) link
I'm at a point now where I don't care how much or little a subscription service pays out. It's finally the right platform in the post-Napster world and if the artists push back hard enough then they might get somewhere with their cut of the revenue. Lots of (not terribly old) artists are still of the old mindset, though, so it may be a few more years before anything substantial happens on that front.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:00 (eleven years ago) link
spotify etc will never pay a ton of money per play because they don't produce very much money per play
― iatee, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:02 (eleven years ago) link
they make all their money the same way most of the rest of the internet makes money - speculative investment, selling user data, etc. these sites aren't set up to generate revenue via content, content isn't worth anything anymore.
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:04 (eleven years ago) link
and it'll be outpaced by something else within a few years just like Rhapsody and eMusic were
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:05 (eleven years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/PmuAUfB.gif
― ( X '____' )/ (zappi), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:06 (eleven years ago) link
How are you going to outpace a huge music library that you, as a user, basically "rent" each month? Are they just going to download shit directly into our minds?
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:07 (eleven years ago) link
I'm sure someone will think of something. and some venture capitalist will give them a lot of money to launch it, and make a shit-ton of money overvaluing its stock, then it will go public, people will kinda like it, then they'll get tired of it - rinse and repeat
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:13 (eleven years ago) link
How are you going to outpace a huge music library that you, as a user, basically "rent" each month?
Not to belabor the point, but this is basically the platform I've been waiting to see realized since the first time I ever read about it hypothetically in some magazine articles nearly 20 years ago.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:14 (eleven years ago) link
their library sucks imho
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:15 (eleven years ago) link
granted I am not the standard music consumer
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:16 (eleven years ago) link
They're missing some things, but they often have a lot of things I'd never have expected to be there (and new releases on labels of all sizes get added all the time). It's not all-encompassing, but neither is the torrent world or the used cd/vinyl market.
― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:17 (eleven years ago) link
I'll stick with the illegal way where I can always find what I want
― brimstead, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:26 (eleven years ago) link
what do you guys think of a quasi-kickstarter scheme where bands release songs if x amount of contributory funds are reached, after which point anyone can have it for free, because it's pointless trying to police copying anyway?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:30 (eleven years ago) link
the Lex argument of 'oh Spotify is worthless because it doesn't have every single fucking thing i could ever want to listen to' is so stupid. there's never been one-stop-shopping, there never will be, but as far as individual sources go it's about as good as it'll ever get. xp
― luaka boppa flame (some dude), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:33 (eleven years ago) link
I think ppl should just go back to buying music if they really like it. Not in mp3 format.
― brimstead, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:33 (eleven years ago) link
whatever, I have no use for it xp
― brimstead, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
People listen to music in different ways. It's an amazing world.
It doesn't have a rather large percentage of what I want and I prefer to have mp3s anyway.
― kendrick delmar - good kid, f.U.C.k. you (The Reverend), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:35 (eleven years ago) link
In a perfect world, every artist would have a "Donate!" button on their website/Facebook/whatevs and I'd just download and listen to everything I wanted and whenever I was like, oh yeah this is great, I'd donate a couple bucks directly to the artist.
― Coke Opus (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:42 (eleven years ago) link
yes let's make that happen!
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:47 (eleven years ago) link
iatee roaringly otm. I'll take a tenth of a penny over zero
― available for sporting events (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 00:49 (eleven years ago) link
shakey mo otm. i honestly think the best solution is government money for all self-declared artists (with the caveat that you have to write a twenty pager at the end of the year), but i'm not totally convinced it's within the realm of possibility.
xp well there's the real-world answer i guess
― administrator galina (Matt P), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 01:11 (eleven years ago) link
i thought that's how canada worked?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 01:15 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/02/copyright-propaganda-machine-gets-new-agent-your-isp
― j., Wednesday, 27 February 2013 08:31 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/music-sales-are-growing-for-the-first-time-this-century-heres-why/273512/
― j., Wednesday, 27 February 2013 08:59 (eleven years ago) link
wow there is a lot interesting in that article
LISTENING IN OUR OWN LANGUAGEThe music market is global. But popular music is still local. Even though all of the top ten global albums and nine of the top ten global singles of 2012 were in English, Europeans still seem to prefer songs in their own languages. More than 60 percent of the top albums in key European countries were artists from that country.
The music market is global. But popular music is still local. Even though all of the top ten global albums and nine of the top ten global singles of 2012 were in English, Europeans still seem to prefer songs in their own languages. More than 60 percent of the top albums in key European countries were artists from that country.
I find this reassuring
― available for sporting events (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 12:31 (eleven years ago) link
we have to figure out a way to ensure that 100% of the top albums in key European countries are in English, so that our economy can win
― ( ( ( ( ( ( ( (Z S), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 14:07 (eleven years ago) link
I don't know the answer but I know Guy Fieri will be involved
― Euler, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 14:12 (eleven years ago) link
Mmmm, that's money! Off the hook!
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
Would love to see a version of the gif with the circle growing and shrinking with total revenues.
― skip, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:50 (eleven years ago) link
I think I'm going to ask my bosses to revive the practice of talked-over promos - you know, "You're listening to (Name of Album), by (Name of Artist), available everywhere (Date)" - but I want Guy Fieri to do all the voice-overs.
― 誤訳侮辱, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
a facebook informant tells me that on the day or so (maybe day after) that the anti-piracy rollout was announced, he downloaded something and his connection was shut down.
he called an 800 number to reactivate it and they knew the names of the files he had downloaded.
so i guess the RIAA is starting to get its shit working pretty well.
― j., Thursday, 28 February 2013 02:43 (eleven years ago) link
what had he downloaded?
― Mordy, Thursday, 28 February 2013 02:49 (eleven years ago) link
Uncle Acid rare live photos
― in a chef-driven ambulance (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 28 February 2013 02:53 (eleven years ago) link
game over man
― Mordy, Thursday, 28 February 2013 02:55 (eleven years ago) link
everybody's gonna stop listening to music and start downloading porn instead. rip music
― available for sporting events (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 28 February 2013 02:59 (eleven years ago) link
now they know what porn u download
― :C (crüt), Thursday, 28 February 2013 03:00 (eleven years ago) link
false, the Porn Providers Association of American doesn't have its shit together the way the gangsters in the RIAA do
― available for sporting events (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 28 February 2013 03:03 (eleven years ago) link
I think that sounds fucking stupid.
also fucking stupid.
― wk, Thursday, 28 February 2013 06:05 (eleven years ago) link
I like the idea of musicians holding their music hostage
― iatee, Thursday, 28 February 2013 06:07 (eleven years ago) link
radiohead just made a new album if they don't raise $5m by friday they will delete every single fucking song don't test them they are serious
well that's the dumb part of the kickstarter model. what do you do if you don't raise enough money? just stop making music?
― wk, Thursday, 28 February 2013 06:08 (eleven years ago) link
come up w/ a more adorable story
― iatee, Thursday, 28 February 2013 06:08 (eleven years ago) link
although I agree, that would be brilliant if a popular band did that oncexp
― wk, Thursday, 28 February 2013 06:09 (eleven years ago) link
what do you do if you don't raise enough money? just stop making music?
Nataly Dawn joins your band.
― new hope for orang-utan (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Thursday, 28 February 2013 06:19 (eleven years ago) link
More musicians should follow that advice imho.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 28 February 2013 07:05 (eleven years ago) link
― j., Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:43 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mordy
dunno, but apparently via piratebay. i didn't think anyone still used them after the legal troubles heated up in 2009.
― j., Thursday, 28 February 2013 07:31 (eleven years ago) link
Something I've always wondered: do they know what you're downloading or just see that you are downloading, and then investigate closer to see what is? That is, if you're downloading the new Taylor Swift album, does that automatically flag you, or do they basically have to follow the cord back to your house? Similarly, do they know you're downloading the new James Bond movie, or do they just see that there's a huge data stream going to your house, get suspicious, then basically eavesdrop to see what you're up to?
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 28 February 2013 12:53 (eleven years ago) link
j. I thought it was a 6 strikes thing you guys were getting in the usa?
― Vote in the ILM 70s poll please! (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 28 February 2013 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
just saw this - The High Court has ordered the UK's major internet service providers to block three websites offering links to pirated material.
The ISPs must stop their users from accessing Kickass Torrents, H33T and Fenopy.
Music industry group the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) said the sites infringed copyright on a "significant scale".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21601609
Never heard of these sites.
― Vote in the ILM 70s poll please! (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 28 February 2013 14:35 (eleven years ago) link
TPB seems to still be OK. The only time i was really scared was once my screen froze with a super official-looking Department of Justice head and a list of laws i had supposedly broken and i freaked out and unplugged my internet immediately. Then i noticed on the screen there was a paypal button asking me to send my fine, and it dawned on me that it was just some virus/malware trying to scam me out of $$. Reboot in Safe Mode and run virus scan and it was gone.
Anytime i download a p2p file i always make sure to set the upload limit to under 10k.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 28 February 2013 15:34 (eleven years ago) link
lmao
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 28 February 2013 15:35 (eleven years ago) link
next time just hit your laptop w a hammer rather than wasting valuable time unplugging it
― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 28 February 2013 15:36 (eleven years ago) link
I've heard of those scams. Things like "Police Force Of Great Britain" and "Police Force Of Europe". cant imagine anyone falling for such poorly named scams
― Vote in the ILM 70s poll please! (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 28 February 2013 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
just sent $500 to police academy 4: citizens on patrol
― tylerw, Thursday, 28 February 2013 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
c/o The Bones Brigade.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 28 February 2013 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
yay
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/734861_10151479680638249_6634795_n.jpg
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Thursday, 28 February 2013 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
can't wait for social engineering virus writers to get a hold of these
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Thursday, 28 February 2013 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
:/
What was this comcast account holder (allegedly) doing?
― multi instru mentat list (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 28 February 2013 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
so when you get 6 of those, wha'happen?
― frogbs, Thursday, 28 February 2013 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101105134456/ring/images/4/4c/Samara8.jpg
― ARE YOU HIRING A NANNY OR A SHAMAN (Phil D.), Thursday, 28 February 2013 20:27 (eleven years ago) link
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Thursday, 28 February 2013 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
here's an article that shows comcast warnings 1-5
no #6 why because samara
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/02/heres-what-an-actual-six-strikes-copyright-alert-looks-like/#p3n
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Thursday, 28 February 2013 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, February 28, 2013 10:34 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
can you really escape discovery by limiting the upload speed? I thought the only safe way to use p2ps was to leech off of people without uploading any copyrighted content yourself.
― garfield drops some dank n' dirty dubz at 2am (unregistered), Thursday, 28 February 2013 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
(or to use a VPN)
Private trackers, VPN, encrypted torrent traffic, local ISPs.
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Thursday, 28 February 2013 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
Worst case scenario is that I'll have to stream a movie rather than download it and watch it. It may end up being even more convenient.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 28 February 2013 22:09 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/02/six-strikes-copyright-alert-system-faq
― j., Thursday, 28 February 2013 22:35 (eleven years ago) link
only content i download off non-private trackers are new adventure time episodes. which is ridiculous bc i have a dvr but for some reason cartoon network doesn't tag its shows as 'new' so i can't record only new adventure time episodes.
― Mordy, Thursday, 28 February 2013 22:53 (eleven years ago) link
what i'm saying is it's time to look for a private adventure time tracker i guess
six strikes? wtf is that? in which sport do you get six strikes?
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 28 February 2013 22:59 (eleven years ago) link
bowling?
I believe six strikes were the rule in baseball until 1923, which is coincidentally the latest year you can freely use content from. That first part isn't true.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 28 February 2013 23:11 (eleven years ago) link
Looks like I'm going to spend this year listening to rips of wax cylinders!
I have all my music divided into two folders: a shared folder filled with all the stuff I've legally downloaded for free off the internet, and a non-shared folder full of stuff I've either purchased legally or downloaded via p2p. I've never received any complaints from other p2p users about the fact that I don't share much in the way of commercially available material (the shared folder is about 50GB), and people download what I do make available all the time in spite of most of it being easily and freely available without p2p.
Will this still possibly trigger CAS warnings? There are certainly many gray areas involved: tracks that were initially given away freely but have since been commercialized, DJ mixes featuring copyrighted material, rap mixtapes with industry beats, tracks with uncleared samples. Even if none of those factors were at play, would the very fact that I share music at all be likely to trigger such a warning?
― kendrick delmar - good kid, f.U.C.k. you (The Reverend), Friday, 1 March 2013 00:01 (eleven years ago) link
Luckily, I have a huge backlog of "unconventionally procured material" (the bulk of it commercially unavailable) to work through while I wait for tech-minded people to figure out a user-friendly workaround to this newest hassle.
― Coke Opus (Old Lunch), Friday, 1 March 2013 00:11 (eleven years ago) link
vpn
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 1 March 2013 00:18 (eleven years ago) link
so if I were to download a bunch of out-of-print limited release stuff on soulseek would that trigger this?
― :C (crüt), Friday, 1 March 2013 00:22 (eleven years ago) link
it's like getting SB'd from the whole internet
― in a chef-driven ambulance (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 1 March 2013 01:57 (eleven years ago) link
have I told you lately that you are the fucking best
― available for sporting events (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 1 March 2013 02:04 (eleven years ago) link
aw bless u
― in a chef-driven ambulance (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 1 March 2013 02:06 (eleven years ago) link
i love how loads of people think a rights holder would never use a private tracker
― ≪江南Style≫ (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 4 March 2013 03:34 (eleven years ago) link
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424127887324906004578292232028509990-lMyQjAxMTAzMDAwNDEwNDQyWj.html
― j., Thursday, 7 March 2013 04:26 (eleven years ago) link
God I feel so bad for them. People who want to watch shows when they want and not see commercials are monsters.
― new hope for orang-utan (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Thursday, 7 March 2013 05:21 (eleven years ago) link
can someone please summarise so i don't have to click a fucking murdoch link
― ≪江南Style≫ (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 7 March 2013 05:47 (eleven years ago) link
Lee Fang @lhfangRand Paul also filibustered a very well qualified judicial nominee this am b/c she once sued gun industry. He didnt speak at all tho.
― balls, Thursday, 7 March 2013 06:00 (eleven years ago) link
ugh i pulled a shakey
balls out
― mookieproof, Thursday, 7 March 2013 06:08 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.buzzfeed.com/perpetua/7-sound-recordings-made-before-thomas-edison
Some Steampunk magical technology here. Kind of a shame the record industry had to come out and limit all music to plastic discs.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 7 March 2013 15:04 (eleven years ago) link
Farewell to Mutant Sounds:
http://mutant-sounds.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-end-of-era.html
― Position Position, Saturday, 9 March 2013 22:12 (eleven years ago) link
― sleeve, Saturday, 9 March 2013 22:38 (eleven years ago) link
Fuck
― u r the best magician ever. my bad levitate me pls (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 10 March 2013 00:42 (eleven years ago) link
wow, that one hurts. RIP best blog ever
― "Turkey In The Straw" coming from someplace in the clouds (Sparkle Motion), Sunday, 10 March 2013 00:47 (eleven years ago) link
Seriously. Gonna miss them a lot. If anything I always thought MS drove up demand for a number of out-of-print releases to get reissued.
― Fetchboy, Sunday, 10 March 2013 00:50 (eleven years ago) link
true. I've been expecting all of these blogs to be snuffed ever since they first appeared, but they ended up running for a long time. The rest of them will likely also fall soon.
RIP
― gentle german fatherly voice (President Keyes), Sunday, 10 March 2013 01:19 (eleven years ago) link
shit
― Lucky Money BUddha (Matt P), Sunday, 10 March 2013 02:29 (eleven years ago) link
Posted by Ned on the n01z3 board MS thread: http://mutant-sounds.blogspot.com/2013/03/mutant-sounds-reborn.html
― Fetchboy, Monday, 11 March 2013 01:47 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/03/18/174642060/supreme-court-lets-222-000-verdict-in-file-sharing-case-stand
The first person to challenge a file-sharing lawsuit brought by the Recording Industry Association of America has reached the end of the line.Without comment, the Supreme Court refused to hear Jammie Thomas-Rasset's appeal, which means the $222,000 verdict against her stands.Thomas-Rasset was convicted of sharing 24 songs on the peer-to-peer service Kazaa. She was arguing that the amount in question was excessive.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 18 March 2013 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
Songs shared include "The Beatles - Black Hole Sun.mp3"
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 18 March 2013 18:46 (eleven years ago) link
can't believe they mistagged my favorite Savage Garden song
― Heyman (crüt), Monday, 18 March 2013 18:49 (eleven years ago) link
The Beatles - Black Hole Sun (Savage Garden cover)live.mp3
― ( ( ( ( ( ( ( (Z S), Monday, 18 March 2013 18:50 (eleven years ago) link
god, i miss audiogalaxy
what the hell kind of jury thought $200,000 was a fair payment for this
you could DUI-murder someone for that kind of cash!!
― frogbs, Monday, 18 March 2013 18:52 (eleven years ago) link
As long as you aren't listening to pirated music while you do it.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 18 March 2013 18:55 (eleven years ago) link
what a travesty
― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 18 March 2013 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
the one car accident i've ever been at the wheel for, the song playing on the radio was "black hole sun" ... by the beatles.
― tylerw, Monday, 18 March 2013 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.studiotv.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/john-lennon-peace640_360.jpgBlack Hole Sun....Won't ya come........And wash away the rain...
;_; ;_; ;_;
― Woody Ellen (Matt P), Monday, 18 March 2013 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
American justice is the fairest in the world.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 18 March 2013 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
I could be wrong, but I think she got slammed because she originally refused to settle for a couple of grand, no? And unfortunately the law as written is pretty black and white, even though downloading is full of grays.
Anyway, good to know the industry is finally on this after decades of irreparably fucking itself over. Hot tip to the RIAA: you might want to keep an eye on China and the rest of Asia, but good luck on the enforcement front.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 18 March 2013 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
so if you really hate someone it's more economical to murder them with intent than to infringe their copyright
― Esteban Buttiérrez (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 18 March 2013 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
"YOU KILLED HER""yes but at least I paid $1.69 for her hit single"
― Esteban Buttiérrez (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 18 March 2013 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
some late night show wag quipped that you could get more jail time for illegally downloading michael jackson albums than for actually killing michael jackson
― unprepared guitar (Edward III), Tuesday, 19 March 2013 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
actually, almost nothing is going to happen to you for illegally downloading michael jackson albums, it's sharing/uploading that usually gets targeted
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 19 March 2013 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
there's nothing wrong with eating michael jackson's remains, but there are harsh penalties for cooking a meal with his remains and sharing it with others
― ( ( ( ( ( ( ( (Z S), Tuesday, 19 March 2013 21:52 (eleven years ago) link
Confused by something. Sometimes at work, it's convenient for me to listen to a full album off YouTube. Like right now--freezing-rain day, no kids. I went to listen to Blonde on Blonde, and it's been taken down because of copyright. Tried the Byrds, and there are a number of albums still up. I'm listening to Mr. Tambourine Man right now.
Same company, same vintage. Is the only difference that Dylan (or his lawyers) are more aggresive in monitoring this kind of thing?
― clemenza, Thursday, 11 April 2013 17:56 (ten years ago) link
why not use spotify which has all of blonde on blonde on it and is legal?
― Mordy, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:00 (ten years ago) link
I'm in Canada, and we don't have it. It's just a spur of the moment thing with me anyway, and if YouTube doesn't have one thing, they'll always have something else I'm just as happy to listen to. When I'm at home, I just use the funny-looking machine that goes round and round.
― clemenza, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:05 (ten years ago) link
i've been thinking about getting one of those
― Mordy, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:06 (ten years ago) link
Any thoughts on the question? I always thought it was companies who policed copyright--is it the artists themselves?
― clemenza, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:08 (ten years ago) link
i doubt Bob Dylan is policing youtube
― Mordy, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:09 (ten years ago) link
someone's doing it! dylan seems to be extra vigilant on youtube -- it must be something the artist polices, rather than the label? or something the artist requests of the label.you can find a bunch of dylan bootleggy stuff on youtube by searching for blind boy grunt or elston gunn...
― tylerw, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:11 (ten years ago) link
Dylan has always been vigilant about copyright. Obviously he's delegating that, Bob is not behind his laptop sending compliance requests, but his wishes are clearly "I give permission when and where my stuff is to be used"
― not feeling those lighters (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:14 (ten years ago) link
I think short of Prince it's total whack-a-mole. For all you know, the Byrds were taken down before you looked for them, then put up again by the time you went to Dylan. And the opposite may be true tomorrow.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:15 (ten years ago) link
Dylan - or say Springsteen - has never put the full kibosh on everything like Prince has. They know the bootlegs and whatnot ultimately benefit them. Prince is just being capricious.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:16 (ten years ago) link
That's what I figured--Bob in pajamas monitoring YouTube didn't compute, but I do believe some people probably get paid very well to do it on his behalf. The Byrds seem a little less interested these days.
― clemenza, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:16 (ten years ago) link
Missed Josh's post. Maybe I just got lucky today.
― clemenza, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:17 (ten years ago) link
(Except the link says "Published on July 1, 2012," so it's been up there for almost a year.)
― clemenza, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:18 (ten years ago) link
Bob always monitors YouTube in a cravat and a jaunty hat
― relentless technosexuality (DJP), Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:19 (ten years ago) link
yeah I think a lot of this is up to individual artists giving direction to the labels/lawyers. Dylan is clearly super-anal about this stuff to an irritating degree, as is Prince. The Byrds - being a band, and one with a long history of legal tangles (doesn't Crosby own the name now?) - are more likely to be a little looser about stuff. This is one thing I appreciate about the Beach Boys, fwiw, absolutely everything is online somewhere.
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:20 (ten years ago) link
I think it's the same everywhere, really - there must be actual complaints or eyeballs on the infraction for something to be taken down, but I doubt anyone has the dollars (loonies?) to sit around scouring for specific copyright violations. Save Prince, who is a loon. I imagine in most instances it's actually the label, not the artist, through various strongarm tactics. but labels are in no position to be absolutely thorough.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:22 (ten years ago) link
Beach Boys, fwiw, absolutely everything is online somewhere.
Probably because no one in the group even knows how to use email.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:23 (ten years ago) link
The really good news is, I see at least three links that will teach me how to play "Mr. Tambourine Man" on a guitar, so who needs Blonde on Blonde?
― clemenza, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:23 (ten years ago) link
I bet with Dylan it's less direction than some proxy operating independently. Like, he hires a lawyer and tells him to do whatever he sees fit, and then the lawyer makes the call. And then 10 years later Dylan sues the lawyer for wasting his money.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:24 (ten years ago) link
xpost Folk music, for the folks!
surely there is a Mike Love song about e-mail and the internet just waiting to be written
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:24 (ten years ago) link
"Spirit of America Online"
― tylerw, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:26 (ten years ago) link
― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:27 (ten years ago) link
Had to Text Ya
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:37 (ten years ago) link
I bet with Dylan it's less direction than some proxy operating independently. Like, he hires a lawyer and tells him to do whatever he sees fit, and then the lawyer makes the call.
yeah I strongly doubt any of this has crossed Dylan's desk in at least thirty years
― not feeling those lighters (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:38 (ten years ago) link
I wouldn't be surprised if Bob's never seen YouTube.
― Pope Frank is the messenger of your doom (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:41 (ten years ago) link
Not to go all A.J. Weberman, but that's something I'd like to see: Bob Dylan's desk. I'd like to think something like this, but he probably just picked it up from Walmart.
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/7/0/8/9/7/webimg/638025486_o.jpg
― clemenza, Thursday, 11 April 2013 18:43 (ten years ago) link
Bob Dylan's 115th Desk.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 April 2013 19:01 (ten years ago) link
Bet he stole his desk from Dave Van Ronk.
― Pope Frank is the messenger of your doom (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 11 April 2013 19:06 (ten years ago) link
I know he had a very folky looking desk in 1964, then he bought one of those fancy Carnaby St. desks in 1965. Got booed and heckled by his housekeeper.
― clemenza, Thursday, 11 April 2013 19:13 (ten years ago) link
fwiw yeah I doubt Dylan even knows what Youtube is BUT I bet he gave some angry "no one gets my music for free maaan" rant to a lawyer a few times and the resultant policy was promptly put in place
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 April 2013 19:13 (ten years ago) link
It's a little known fact that Bob Dylan doesn't even have working electricity.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 April 2013 19:16 (ten years ago) link
on the bonus cuts from some recent album - together through life? - which are taken from an episode of his radio show, dylan's talking up, i forget, whatsername the singer, and he instructs the listener, 'go on to YOU tube…'
― j., Thursday, 11 April 2013 19:57 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, I was thinking about that on the way home. Sometimes Dylan seems to want to present himself as an ascetic monk, oblivious to whatever the rest of the world's interested in, and I'm sure in some regards he is. But when I read his memoirs, I was often surprised/amused when he'd make reference to some pop-culture name you wouldn't think in a million years he'd have been aware of (the first one that comes to mind is Gorgeous George, the wrestler, but there were others).
― clemenza, Thursday, 11 April 2013 21:04 (ten years ago) link
well shit the man's been on tour for forty years, reading saint augustine can't be the only thing he does in his downtime
― j., Thursday, 11 April 2013 21:07 (ten years ago) link
lol @ the idea that dylan wouldn't know what youtube was
― wk, Thursday, 11 April 2013 21:08 (ten years ago) link
I feel like there's probably a more apt thread for this, but someone tell me what it is:http://johndarnielle.tumblr.com/post/47019871450/so-people-ask-me-this-sometimes-and-i-appreciate
― --808 542137 (Hurting 2), Thursday, 11 April 2013 21:27 (ten years ago) link
Dude didn't know what overdubbing was (or that it was possible) until 1970 or 1971. Not knowing about YouTube would be totally in character for him.
― Pope Frank is the messenger of your doom (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 11 April 2013 21:55 (ten years ago) link
Dylan dropped booty call &Alicia Keys refs so I'm sure he knows youtube
― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 11 April 2013 22:25 (ten years ago) link
i'm sure after he dies there'll be some big reveal about dylan avidly posting on yahoo groups about the civil war.
― tylerw, Thursday, 11 April 2013 22:37 (ten years ago) link
Dude didn't know what overdubbing was (or that it was possible) until 1970 or 1971.
really? where'd you hear that?
I think it's impossible that somebody who recorded and released an album on a major label as recently as last year wouldn't know what YT is. I mean, maybe if he really was a retired recluse that might be conceivable but not for a working professional! unless he just really never talks to anyone else and everyone around him is afraid to ever speak to him?
― wk, Thursday, 11 April 2013 22:53 (ten years ago) link
plus j. quoted him up there referencing youtube so...
― wk, Thursday, 11 April 2013 22:54 (ten years ago) link
this is in his bio iirc
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 April 2013 22:56 (ten years ago) link
he didn't *do* any overdubbing until 1970 or thereabouts, he probably knew it was possible....
― tylerw, Thursday, 11 April 2013 22:56 (ten years ago) link
found the quote ""When I started making records, you sat in a room and sang your songs and what it sounded like on your side of the glass is what it sounded like on the other side of the glass. Somewhere along the line that changed, and I'm not sure why. I honestly didn't know you could do an overdub until like 1975."
sounds like bs or exaggeration possibly
― wk, Thursday, 11 April 2013 22:58 (ten years ago) link
well yeah. but he did say it.
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 April 2013 22:59 (ten years ago) link
Hearing a Paula Abdul song on a windswept day in New Orleans. I love the Oh Mercy chapter.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 11 April 2013 23:00 (ten years ago) link
Looking at the book "Bob Dylan: The Recording Sessions, 1960-1994" on google books, it says The Boxer is the first track where he doubled his vocals. so '69 or '70.
― wk, Thursday, 11 April 2013 23:02 (ten years ago) link
xp haha, yeah he said it. but you'd have to have some serious blinders on to be a world famous recording artist and not know about that stuff. his vocals are doubletracked on "the boxer," recorded in 1970.
― tylerw, Thursday, 11 April 2013 23:02 (ten years ago) link
oh there you go. of course, that might be the producer just taking two vocal takes, not like it's an amazing overdub job. i like the idea of dylan hearing it with the two vocals and thinking: "who is that other dude singing with me"
― tylerw, Thursday, 11 April 2013 23:03 (ten years ago) link
this is interesting...
Dylan and producer Tom Wilson were soon experimenting with their own fusion of rock and folk music. The first unsuccessful test involved overdubbing a "Fats Domino early rock & roll thing" over Dylan's earlier, acoustic recording of "House of the Rising Sun," according to Wilson. This took place in the Columbia 30th Street Studio in December 1964.[1] It was quickly discarded, though Wilson would more famously use the same technique of overdubbing an electric backing track to an existing acoustic recording with Simon & Garfunkel's "The Sound of Silence". I
never knew that but now I want to hear it.
― wk, Thursday, 11 April 2013 23:06 (ten years ago) link
sometimes I think I really need to hear Self Portrait. Dylan doing Paul Simon lol
― four Marxes plus four Obamas plus four Bin Ladens (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 April 2013 23:06 (ten years ago) link
I wonder if dylan was actually there though or ever heard it, or if wilson just did it on his own like he did with SoSxp
― wk, Thursday, 11 April 2013 23:07 (ten years ago) link
he went on rec.music.dylan o/w a few times in the 90s
― Devendra Bumhat (sic), Friday, 12 April 2013 00:16 (ten years ago) link
i am bob dylan
― severely depressed robots are "twee" (Pat Finn), Friday, 12 April 2013 01:59 (ten years ago) link
How big is your penis
― your holiness, we have an official energy drink (Z S), Friday, 12 April 2013 02:35 (ten years ago) link
Have you been to Manhattan, and if so, what was it like
― your holiness, we have an official energy drink (Z S), Friday, 12 April 2013 02:36 (ten years ago) link
i mean, i usually don't like to talk about "being bob dylan"; it feels tacky, like i'm bragging.
― Pat Finn, Friday, 12 April 2013 13:49 (ten years ago) link
It's ain't braggin' if it's true.
― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 12 April 2013 15:47 (ten years ago) link
I think I know what's going on here. 1) Pat Finn started out on burgundy. 2) He soon hit the harder stuff. 3) Weird, off-the-wall posting on a message board.
― clemenza, Friday, 12 April 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
yeah i thought i would be able to follow up the "i am bob dylan" comment with some funny posts. but i've got nothing.
― Pat Finn, Friday, 12 April 2013 16:29 (ten years ago) link
Just confess that you--Bob Dylan--are addicted to youtube videos of celebrities falling off stages, and you'll be okay.
― Vol. 3: The Life & Times of E. "Boom" Carter (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 12 April 2013 17:24 (ten years ago) link
that Juan Gabriel fall remains one of the funniest things ever
― Call me at **BITCOIN (DJP), Friday, 12 April 2013 17:26 (ten years ago) link
i like this video, i think it was posted here at some point, where nickleback walk onstage at a music festival and the lead singer tries to pump up the crowd saying "are you ready to rock?" or something, and it is just dead silent, no response from the audience. after a few minutes the band storms offstage, giving the middle finger to the crowd. i, bob dylan, watch that video every morning in order to laugh and "jolt" myself out of my morning depression.
― Pat Finn, Friday, 12 April 2013 17:32 (ten years ago) link
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/05/08/1533205/former-demonoid-members-receive-email-claiming-resurrection-get-malware-instead?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed
I got said email, luckily i didn't open it.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 8 May 2013 17:31 (ten years ago) link
same here.
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 9 May 2013 03:08 (ten years ago) link
How worried should I be if I got a copyright infringement notice from my internet provider (A+and+)? I've never gotten anything like that and I must say I'm feeling kind of distraught.
― "Turkey In The Straw" coming from someplace in the clouds (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 15 October 2013 01:09 (ten years ago) link
don't be, stop sharing the specific file(s) they called you out for, maybe avoid sharing files you get from wherever you got those files in general. probably best to avoid uploading anything you could potentially get a notice for for awhile.
― balls, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 01:30 (ten years ago) link
pretty amazing http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/25/filesharing-site-anti-piracy-honeypot-uploadertalk-user-data
― piscesx, Saturday, 26 October 2013 17:42 (ten years ago) link
Got a DMCA takedown notice for a song that was 100% wrote by me and I and recorded every instrument on it, which is a first for me!
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 21 November 2013 19:59 (ten years ago) link
weird. was it called "stairway to heaven" or something?
― tylerw, Thursday, 21 November 2013 20:00 (ten years ago) link
The file named I Love You But You Don't Love Me Back.mp3 is identified by the key (wnho6vndab12bkk).
Is there a song also called this that I am unaware of? It's a slow droney gospel sort of thing with those being the only lyrics.
I sent a counterclaim to Mediafire but who knows if anything will happen. I should probably just stop using it altogether and go w Soundcloud/Bandcamp.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 21 November 2013 20:02 (ten years ago) link
"old man down the road"
― lorde willin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 21 November 2013 20:02 (ten years ago) link
curious...
https://www.google.com/search?q=wnho6vndab12bkk
― koogs, Thursday, 21 November 2013 20:15 (ten years ago) link
Oh great, apparently my files are listed in file crawler websites. I swear to god neither I.love.you.phillip.morris.ts.md.german nor [4shared,mp3] 09 Doctor Jones (Antiloop Club Mix).mp3 are on my mediafire account.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 21 November 2013 20:17 (ten years ago) link
wow adam, thats pretty intense ..
must have felt very strange and yet, exciting ?
as it means you are on some filtering list of value.
in the glory days of blogging, i posted many a track that i was borderline with and never had a takedown notice ...
i always wanted one to print and frame ..
one day.
xpost.
― mark e, Thursday, 21 November 2013 20:20 (ten years ago) link
Hotfile to pay Hollywood studios $80m damages in filesharing settlement
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/04/hotfile-hollywood-filesharing-damages-mpaa
― sleeve, Thursday, 5 December 2013 01:33 (ten years ago) link
hotfile still exists?
― Number None, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:33 (ten years ago) link
oh i guess it doesn't now
― Number None, Thursday, 5 December 2013 18:35 (ten years ago) link
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, November 21, 2013 11:59 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I had this happen too, and the claim came from an act I'd never heard of. And when I contacted mediafire about it they said they fixed it, but they didn't.
― Emined - FAP God (The Reverend), Thursday, 16 January 2014 22:09 (ten years ago) link
BMG and Round Hill Music (whoever they are) are suing Cox Cable for not disconnecting users at the behest of the music industry, Cox says that "infringement" needs be proven before they disconnect someone.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/music-publishers-finally-pull-the-trigger-sue-an-isp-over-piracy/
My favorite sentence from the music industry flacks:
In their complaint, the music publishers describe the Cox network as an out-of-control den of piracy. "Today, BitTorrent systems are like the old P2P systems on steroids," BMG lawyers write.
Not to mention the potency of today's marijuana...
― Pooja Bhatt's erotic thriller Jism 2 (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Sunday, 30 November 2014 11:41 (nine years ago) link
A new generation of Super Piraters
― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Sunday, 30 November 2014 11:50 (nine years ago) link
http://www.engadget.com/2014/12/09/swedish-police-raid-the-pirate-bay-and-knock-the-site-offline/
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 9 December 2014 23:24 (nine years ago) link
You know, just a couple of days ago I was sitting behind a late 50s/early 60s government worker on the bus and he was watching a pirated copy of Annie on his laptop. For a brief second I thought to myself that maybe I was just being too much of a prude about illegal downloading and hell, if this old guy is doing it then maybe I can do it too and save a couple of bucks on things that are difficult to rent or stream online. Then I realized that no wait, if this old guy is doing it then this is where the whole thing crashes to a halt.
― how's life, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 10:16 (nine years ago) link
how could you tell it was pirated?
― koogs, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 12:48 (nine years ago) link
Because it comes out 3 weeks from now?
― how's life, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 12:51 (nine years ago) link
not the old version then?
― koogs, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 12:53 (nine years ago) link
how could you tell he was a government worker?
― Abstinence Hawk (frogbs), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 12:57 (nine years ago) link
I would have thought Why is a 60 yr old man watching that garbage? Especially when he could have downloaded Mr. Turner which also leaked in the wake of the Sony hacking.
― xelab, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 12:57 (nine years ago) link
xp: sorry, that was completely irrelevant info. But he had some kind of government id on a lanyard. Most people I ride in with are federal employees.
― how's life, Wednesday, 10 December 2014 13:07 (nine years ago) link
obviously an NSA worker embedding neural tracking programs into the film's pixels
― ancient texts, things that can't be pre-dated (President Keyes), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 13:11 (nine years ago) link