Mike Trout needs his own thread

http://metsmerizedonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/sports-illustrated-253x300.png

he is now at 9.4 rwar for the season. his closest competitor is robinson cano, who has played 21 more games, at 6.2. fwar is a bit more circumspect, but still gives him significant lead.

he leads the majors in stolen bases, runs scored and ops+

randal grichuk, whom the angels took one pick ahead of trout, is having a nice season in high-a ball.

this fucking guy.

he's probably not gonna top A-Rods ridiculous age 20 season but yeah this is getting stupid

He's only not going to top it cuz he missed a month (although to be fair to A-Rod he only played 146 games it looks like.)

Totally proves the draft is a complete crapshoot.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/10/mike-trout-is-first-player-to-reach-10-war-since-barry-bonds

TROUT

...and a triple to go with his homer after two AB. Geez, if he hits for the cycle, you'll have to disown him.

:p

prefer 2 more HRs

he really is pretty good
i mean, he is definitely probably one of the nice surprises this season, roy material

he's in the running for rookie of the year for sure

Ruth of the Year

does he have a nickname yet? we need to get on this. his last name is Trout for crissake, this should be low hanging fruit

Rainbow and Dizzy are taken

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutthroat_trout

too bad he couldn't have played in the same outfield as tim salmon.

or rogers smallmouth-bass

30th dinger

first 30/30 rookie

Top of the 6th, he's 4-4 with a double, triple, and 3 RBI--off Felix. Unbelievable.

MIKE TROUT	

Month	      AL WAR Rank
May	      1
June	      1
July	      1
August	      1
September     2

he's really fallen off

The Los Angeles Angels renewed the contract of AL Rookie of the Year Mike Trout for $510,000. The salary is $20,000 above the major league minimum.

seems a bit like leaving a $1 tip on a $100 check. there must be ways of saving money that don't involve insulting your best player

every player goes through this and they already gave him 1+ mil just to sign. he'll buy a few yachts once he hits arb.

but don't mind me i have trouble treating baseball contracts with the appropriate relativity

If B-R numbers are right, it doesn't look like recent Rookies of the Year have gotten massive bumps in their next season.

I don't know that throwing him an extra $500k this season buys any more loyalty when the time comes for his $200mn contract in a few seasons.

scratch that - http://mlb.sbnation.com/2013/3/4/4062060/mike-trout-salary-los-angeles-angels

increases were quite a bit larger, just not in raw $$$

i'm sure he'll do v. well in arbitration and that he'll go wherever the money is when he's a free agent. if the angels had a policy of paying ppl the absolute minimum they had to, then fine. the extra $20k is weird tho.

it's obviously in trout's best interests to play hard and everything. it just seems like a bit more might be warranted in an effort to keep your best player happy and feeling valued.

http://www.billjamesonline.com/mike_trout_runs__games/

The record that Mike Trout could threaten is the post-WWII tally for runs scored: 152, collected by Jeff Bagwell in 2000. And Trout could be the first player to score more runs than games played since Rickey Henderson accomplished the feat in 1985.

My first bold prediction for 2013? That he does one or the other. Mike Trout with either score 152+ runs in 2013, or he’ll score more runs than games played.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=20105

jeez, look at the way he rounds first in that second clip. amazing.

Bonifacio gif linked in the comments is actually an even crazier looking play.

will return to LF when Bourjos is activated

http://www.baseballnation.com/2013/5/31/4383614/mike-trout-center-field-left-field-mike-scioscia

i posted that in the angels thread the other day :(

it is strange how the advanced metrics have him as a minus fielder so far this year after being a stellar LF last year

B-R has him -9 runs in the field so far!

i meant to say OF in the previous post btw, he played left and center iirc

it is strange how the advanced metrics have him as a minus fielder so far this year after being a stellar LF last year

― k3vin k., Sunday, June 2, 2013 11:11 AM (6 days ago)

An attempt to break this down:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/36800/why-are-trouts-defensive-numbers-so-bad

Conclusion: don't expect it to last.

thanks, i was just about to ask if anything's been written about that!

75mph changeup = line-drive HR to left

four hits today

Noticed that he's almost exactly where he was last year in terms of basic slash stats:

2012 -- .326/.399/.564
2013 -- .320/.399/.560

His HR and SB are down a little, 2B and 3B way up.

why is there no youtube compilation of mike trout triples?

4-4 with 2 walks last night, up to .331/.412/.568 and leads fWAR by 0.4 wins

18 walks in his last 10 games

David Cameron @DCameronFG
Through age-21 season, by wRC+, Mike Trout is the best hitter of all time, edging out Foxx and Williams.

David Cameron @DCameronFG
That's just hitting. No baserunning, no fielding, just hitting. Trout has been better than Ted Williams at hitting.

seeing him play next week

I saw him before his rookie year! Batting ninth!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ANA/ANA201107090.shtml

...

Two-run homer first time up tonight. If it weren't for that (still weird) -1.4 defensive number, he'd probably be on his way to about a 12.0 WAR for the year.

Angels have to be trying to lock him up for like decade.

Two-run homer first time up tonight. If it weren't for that (still weird) -1.4 defensive number, he'd probably be on his way to about a 12.0 WAR for the year.

― clemenza, Wednesday, August 7, 2013 10:35 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fangraphs is much kinder, but even they have him as a neutral defender rather than a huge minus.

anyway OPS above 1.000 now - .333/.424/.580

just turned 22 yesterday btw

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/happy-22nd-birthday-mike-trout-2/

re: mookie's post. look at that list. nothing but inner-circle guys

I wonder if the guy mistakenly left A-Rod off the list. Baseball Reference has him at 14.3 through age 21, which would safely put him on there. Is there that much difference between the two methods?

Just to be annoyingly nitpicky, I'm not sure I'd call Arky Vaughan inner-circle. On the merits, maybe, although his numbers were mostly compiled in the '30s. In the popular imagination, no. He's just not that famous.

he was one of Nixon's all-time shortstops!

"Goddamit, Bob, I don't care about the Negro in Chicago or those two guys from Jew York City--give me Arky Vaughan."

the list is sorted by wRC+ - i'm not sure how to calculate that but a-rod's might not have been above vaughn's 131 if you count his first two full seasons plus his assorted call-ups prior to that

this was a really great read:
http://thelinedrive.com/2012/09/19/the-day-i-pegged-mike-trout/

Not the best time for A-Rod testimonials, but when I was checking his numbers, I'd forgotten he only played 146 games in his sort-of-rookie season. Not nearly as abbreviated as Trout's 2012, but if you give back even 10 of those 16 missing games, he almost surely would have had 400 total bases (379 for the year).

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/70717/mike-trouts-ridiculous-encore-performance

Similar to the Fangraphs piece above, but ranked by WAR, so A-Rod's high. The inner-circleness holds until #12, where Vada Pinson shows up. (Pinson's prolonged drift into retirement at age 36 has always fascinated me.)

http://mlb.si.com/2013/08/08/mike-trout-birthday-angels/

trout somehow just leapfrogged everyone else and now leads the league in bWAR?

hm, looks like he's gone from -1.5 dWAR to -1.1 over the past week. robbing that home run a couple nights ago probably helped

Is there a good explanation for the over 3 dWAR swing between last year and this year? Is Trout really not making that many plays this year that your replacement level player would (and that he did last year)?

I think the 2.1 dWAR from last year is actually wackier than the minus 1.1 from this year.

there have been a few articles about it - it basically boils down to the fact that he had like 4 incredible home run robs in like 5 months last year and, until yesterday, had none so far this year. it is pretty suspect that his dWAR numbers are so bad (at least on b-r) given his speed. fangraphs had him as a neutral defender up until a couple days ago

So robbing a home run = a 1/4 of a win? That seems more suspect to me than his dWAR #s this year since I thought one win basically boiled down to 10 runs above replacement.

Actually even more than a 1/4 since that was an explanation for a nearly 4 dWAR swing.

I love the idea of defensive metrics like WAR but swings like this are a lot harder to understand than their offensive counterparts.

I've been following Trout and Cabrera on Baseball Reference, and here's something I don't quite understand. I knew, once Trout got hot (and especially with Cabrera missing games), it was only a matter of time before Trout moved to the top of the list. Today seems like an odd day for it to happen, though Yesterday, Cabrera was up 6.2 to 6.1; this morning, it's Trout 6.4, Cabrera 6.2.

Trout had an okay game yesterday: 0-2, but he drew two walks and stole two bases. Cabrera was 2-5 with (as you may have read) a home run--no extra credit for the who and when of the latter, but still. Neither guy made an error. Putouts, assists, or great plays, I don't know.

I know it's all context-driven, but based on that, how did Trout move up three-tenths of a game, and Cabrera only one-tenth? Maybe Baseball Reference is a day behind on their WAR calculations, but I don't think so.

yeah it's puzzling. like i said it looks like trout's gain was on the defensive side, where he went from -1.4 to -1.1 (i think overnight) - but that must be from the robbed home run, i'd have thought

trout's defensive numbers this year are also lower because he's been playing more LF than he did in 2012 so he's working against stricter positional adjustments

WAR's positional, right? You're x number of games above the current replacement level at your position, as measured against everybody else playing the same spot? I sometimes wonder if a hidden contributing factor might be--in the case of these two guys--that, as a group, third basemen had a better night last night than center fielders. Sounds bizarre, I know, but I'm trying to understand how Trout makes up ground on Cabrera last night. (If Trout's great catch was the night before, presumably that had already been figured in prior to today's calculations.)

i think that the positional baselines for WAR are fixed and not based on how other players at the same position do on a night-to-night basis

i could be wrong tho

the catch wasn't even all that great tbh, but that's all i can think of that would cause that swing

sarge what do you mean by that? he played some LF early in the year, but aren't LFers theoretically less skilled than CFers? if anything on the defensive side that should have helped him?

xp

Okay. I would think they'd adjust the baseline periodically, though--the replacement level for first basemen during the McGwire-Bagwell-Thomas-Palmeiro-McGriff era must have been historically high.

If anybody else can explain how 0-2 with two walks and two stolen bases makes up two-tenths of a game on 2-5 with a home run, please do. (Would the fact that Cabrera's home run tied the game in the 9th inning be worth anything--does WPA figure into WAR?)

"trout's defensive numbers this year are also lower because he's been playing more LF than he did in 2012 so he's working against stricter positional adjustments"

Yeah this makes no sense to me either. If he was 2 wins better than replacement at CF then in theory he'd be way better than a replacement LF not way worse.

xp I don't think any WPA stuff is used. I think this is a question you'd have to ask the B-R guy to get an answer.

his fielding runs above average hasn't moved on fangraphs for at least a week

"trout's defensive numbers this year are also lower because he's been playing more LF than he did in 2012 so he's working against stricter positional adjustments"

Yeah this makes no sense to me either. If he was 2 wins better than replacement at CF then in theory he'd be way better than a replacement LF not way worse.

― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, August 10, 2013 11:52 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

defensively yeah but offensively you'd think corner outfielders are more replaceable than center fielders?

And even WPA was used I wouldn't think that Trout would get a bump from it.

Okay. I would think they'd adjust the baseline periodically

they do, probably during each offseason. it's not like "oh, every other third baseman in mlb went 0-4 last night so now miguel cabrera's war has shot up"

xp yeah I'm talking about just in terms of the defense relative to a replacement LF.

I notice also that, after months of Gomez (mostly) and Kershaw leading the NL, McCutchen is tied this morning--first time, I think.

LF is the easiest OF position so the positional adjustment is more severe i.e. a good LF is gonna have a lower defensive rating than a good CF because a much higher number of players can play LF well than can play CF well. so even if we assume (for the sake of the example) that trout is playing the exact same quality defense in 2013 as he did in 2012 but his playing time is more slanted towards LF than that good defense in LF in 2013 is gonna count for less than all the good defense in CF in 2012.

A cast of characters that includes Raul Ibanez and Chris Carter for example.

I think that difference is counted into the ACTUAL positional adjustment for LF (at least in Fangraphs). Either way according to B-R Trout is basically as bad a fielder this year as Raul Ibanez. I just don't see how that's possible.

LF is the easiest OF position so the positional adjustment is more severe i.e. a good LF is gonna have a lower defensive rating than a good CF because a much higher number of players can play LF well than can play CF well. so even if we assume (for the sake of the example) that trout is playing the exact same quality defense in 2013 as he did in 2012 but his playing time is more slanted towards LF than that good defense in LF in 2013 is gonna count for less than all the good defense in CF in 2012.

― J0rdan S., Saturday, August 10, 2013 12:03 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok yeah this makes sense

that final "than" should be "then"

Also Trout's still played most of his games at CF.

We're not talking about all CF in 2012 and all LF in 2013.

per fangraphs

2012

LF - 328 innings - 1.5 UZR
CF - 885 innings - 12.0 UZR

2013

LF - 297 innings - 2.5 UZR
CF - 700 innings - -3.1 UZR

so he's playing a bit more in LF and has just been worse in CF

my guess is that he bulked up a bit last offseason and it's hurt his CF defense a bit

i mean if you split the difference between the two seasons he still grades out as a plus defensive CF

J0rdan always blaming the roids.

yeah the defensive stats are always really volatile and you're supposed to have at least 3 years of data for it to mean anything

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9543335/why-mike-trout-more-valuable-miguel-cabrera-mlb

can someone post this?

he's up to 7.8 fWAR, also seemingly from the defensive side, as his fielding runs above average has gone from -0.5 to +2.1

In like a week haha

well literally overnight, but i get the feeling the defensive metrics are updated weekly

Yeah BR dWAR hasn't changed.

when's the last time someone's led his league in both triples and walks? the best i can find is mantle in 1955

Rickey Henderson didn't; never hit more than 7 triples in a season!

yeah he was my first guess too! i was really surprised at his low triples total

Brett Butler led in both categories, not in the same season.

I'm seeing a lotta fast guys who were known for not walking a ton (Reyes, Lance Johnson, Willie Wilson) as triples leaders.

Harmon Killebrew, Frank Thomas, and Prince Fielder all led their leagues in walks. Triples, not so many.

maybe guys who hit a lot of triples are aggressive in a way that works against walking.

i would think that the traits of a strong triples hitter would be

1) fast (duh)
2) plays in a pitcher's park (so strong blasts to the alley and line drives into the corner would have more distance to bounce around before the OF can get it back in)
3) high SLG, but more of a XBH guy rather than a HR hitter
4) aggressive baserunner

i'm surprised that ricky henderson never hit more than 7, although i'm not sure about the characteristics of the old A's coliseum, along with the other parks he played in.

rickey probably stopped at second a lot so he could steal third

^^^actual rickey quote iirc

"rickey probably stopped at second a lot so he could steal third

― k3vin k., Friday, August 16, 2013 5:35 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink"

-rickey henderson

^^^actual rickey quote iirc

A whole page of theories:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=1542089

robs a home run!

left the game in the 6th, sore hammy. please be minor

"when's the last time someone's led his league in both triples and walks?"

It's not Pete Rose. I went and checked as I remembered he drew quite a few walks at points in his career. Dude hit some triples though, not too many players hit 5 three-baggers at age 40.

caught stealing tonight, rare occurrence

Big game today: 3-3, double, triple, walk, run.

really infuriating how mlb.com highlights show any run-scoring play but doesn't have (free) video of mike freaking trout legging out a triple

up to 9.2 fWAR

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/search/?player_id=545361&tagName=Mike%20Trout

ok, the triple's up now

caught stealing AND picked off last night

the bum

From Cliff Corcoran's MVP round-up today: "The 22-year-old Trout, by the way, is younger than five of the six Rookie of the Year candidates listed below. That's not relevant to this race. It's just amazing."

caught stealing AND picked off last night

actually that was all one play -- it's kinda weird how they score it imo

ah ok i did see it was by the catcher this morning - tho last night when i was following the game they only had it scored as a CS, which is why i assumed they were separate

From SweetSpot: Will become the seventh .300/.400/.500 player under the age of 23 ever: Pujols, A-Rod, Kaline, Mantle, Mathews Musial. (I assumed he did it last year, but his OBP was .399.)

pretty good company there

#	Name	Team	G	PA	H	HR	R	RBI	SB	BB%	K%	ISO	BABIP	AVG	OBP	SLG	wOBA	wRC+	Fld	BsR	WAR
1	Mike Trout	Angels	317	1403	387	58	245	183	85	11.8 %	20.0 %	.230	.373	.320	.405	.550	.408	165	22.2	21.7	20.5
2	Ryan Howard	Phillies	1178	5018	1176	311	695	963	12	11.7 %	27.9 %	.274	.324	.271	.361	.545	.378	130	-23.4	-38.9	20.5

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=1990&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=10155,2154

Misaligned, but...

He's scored about 30 fewer runs in the same number of games compared to last year, despite a better OBP, and the Angels are on pace to score almost the same number of runs as last year. How is this possible? Is it entirely due to Josh Hamilton hitting behind him and sucking all year?

he's batting 3rd instead of leadoff, and yeah that too

My friend came through with Jays tickets for tomorrow. I will watch his every move closely.

see if he does better than when i saw him, 2-3 with a walk

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/lookandlearn-preview/A/A013/A013423.jpg

Trout had an okay night; only 1-4, but also a walk and two runs scored. He DH-ed, so unfortunately I didn't get to see him field. The Angels' other MT was 5-5, three doubles, a homer, 11 total bases, and five runs scored. Buehrle got hammered.

Came relatively close to a foul ball of Trout's bat--two rows behind us, maybe 15 seats to the left. I said to my friend that such a baseball might be worth something one day, but wondered how you'd ever authenticate that it was Trout who hit it. "I'd authenticate it," he offered.

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post?id=3190

buster olney on why trout's the best all-around player in the game. anyone who'd like to post the text of the article for us cheapos can go ahead, hint hint

trout now ranks 13th in war in angels history; he has fewer plate appearances than anyone in the top 35

having a fun time googling "mike trout scouting report" and seeing what people thought about him 3, 4, 5 years ago. i was kind of out of the baseball loop at the time

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/awards/player-of-the-year/2011/2612308.html

he was pretty well-regarded -- 2010 midwest league mvp as an 18-year-old, hitting .362/.454/.526 with 45 stolen bases in 81 games, narrowly beaten out for texas league mvp by slippery rock's own matt adams in 2011 -- but, you know, so was brandon wood. the atlantic league is littered with guys who once tore up the california league.

he didn't show this kind of power in the minors, but at 6'2", 230 maybe that was bound to happen.

btw randal grichuk (see op) hit 22 homers in double-a this year, but with a .306 obp.

http://baseballnewshound.com/?p=66

this is great, look at the comparison at the top

one article i read quoted the scouting director as saying he picked grichuk before trout just to scare the shit out of the area scout who scouted him

anyone know why he's been DHing lately?

he's 5 for his last 28, but has turned into a walking machine

just clocked one about 450 feet to dead center, 2 straight games going yard

last night's was farther, holy cow

http://wapc.mlb.com/laa/play/?content_id=30679623&c_id=ana

look at figueroa pointing up after he hits it, lol

beast

In case you weren't keeping track:

http://joeposnanski.blogspot.ca/2013/09/baseball-reference.html#more

For such a fluid, grab-bag of an achievement, that's a pretty impressive group of players--which makes sense.

'nother dinger tonight

Think about the adulation a 21-year-old prospect would get if he put up a .500 OBP in Double-A over a half-season. Think what everyone would say if that prospect could also run, field, and hit for power. Baseball America would release issues with tri-folds in the middle.

This player is doing it in the majors. Not Triple-A. But in the majors. Playing half of his games in a pitcher's park.

http://www.baseballnation.com/2013/9/20/4750774/mike-trout-angels-mvp

awesome that he's at the top of that distance leaderboard. probably helped a little by playing in such a cavernous park, but still

can't seem to get a hit lately

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9715559/mike-trout-quest-mvp-great-performance-major-league

Article really lays out how ridiculous he is. Definitely the greatest position player I've seen in my lifetime and I'm not sure really anyone's even close.

jeez, i'm his biggest stan but like, a-rod, bonds, griffey - those guys are at least close

Not at 20-21 they weren't. I guess that should be a caveat though.

arod's age 20 season is comparable i think

age 20 season, adjusted batting runs

1. Mel Ott 5.3 1929
2. Mike Trout 5.2 2012
3. Al Kaline 5.1 1955
4. Alex Rodriguez 5.0 1996
5. Ted Williams 5.0 1939
6. Ty Cobb 5.0 1907
7. Mickey Mantle 4.7 1952
8. Frank Robinson 3.6 1956
9. Rogers Hornsby 3.3 1916
10. Dick Hoblitzell 2.9 1909

yeah A-Rod at 20/21 was definitely close

that said we dont know what Trout's peak is. if this isn't it the history books are going to be demolished.

sorry that's batting WINS. Age 21:

1. Mike Trout 6.6 2013
2. Eddie Mathews 5.8 1953
3. Jimmie Foxx 5.6 1929
4. Ted Williams 5.1 1940
5. Ty Cobb 5.1 1908
6. Albert Pujols 4.9 2001
7. Cesar Cedeno 4.7 1972
8. Rogers Hornsby 4.7 1917
9. Denny Lyons 4.7 1887
10. Ken Griffey 4.3 1991

A-Rod 20 was amazing but still behind Trout. A-Rod 21 was not even in same league.

You can see why Leo Durocher was excited about Cedeno in '72.

Cedeno's arrival was right when I started watching baseball, so I still remember all the (legitimate) hype around him. I saw an Astros-Reds spring training game in '72--came away with one of Lee May's bats.

I know you're talking about position players, but the most awesome 20-year-old in my lifetime was Gooden.

Mike Trout has a higher career WAR (20.8) than Jermaine Dye (20.3), Joe Carter (19.3), Ryan Howard (18.9), & Dave Kingman (17.2).

“It can be a combination of dirt stains, grass stains, bloodstains — he'll blow out a knee or a butt cheek. He's in the top two or three for most-soiled every night. He's old-school.”
—Angels assistant equipment manager Shane Demmitt, on the daily state of Trout’s uniform.

“The Sistine Chapel.”
—Rays manager Joe Maddon, when asked to define Trout’s ceiling.

I wonder if Subway sammiches have made his neck that big.

"Blowing out a butt cheek" is a distressing mental image.

i've been to the sistene chapel the ceiling isn't THAT high

ugh sistine

Voted $400 million, didn't give it any thought. If there aren't any bumps in the road before 2018, I have to believe it'll be in that range.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/43039/what-if-willie-mays-were-a-free-agent

13 trade offers for Mike Trout

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22425

the Angels should take the sky scrapper.

that first trade is bonkers. there's no way the angels trade the best player in baseball for an unproven PITCHER and a no-offense 3B who just broke his leg

like machado is good but he's a league average hitter at best and who knows what his defensive range is going to be like now

he's a shortstop playing third

and he was worth 6.2 WAR

at 21

almost entirely because of defense, and he just had a devastating lower body injury

i mean i love machado believe me, but obviously the angels laugh and hang up the phone in a second when they get that call

these trade ideas are meant to be insane - you guys realize that, right?!

yeah i realized that as i went further down haha

kk u realize before he came up defense wasn't even considered his strong suit? league average hitting at age 21 is special

not as special as say mike trout but there's also his defense and kevin gausman, who is a prospect like any other

tbf i do not know who kevin gausman is, but he's a PITCHING PROSPECT ffs

lol i love the abstract over-exaggeration of tinstaapp being stretched into "there is literally no worth in a starting pitcher who isn't playing major league ball yet", been happening a lot lately

I think the point is its MIKE TROUT ffs. There is no trade scenario that doesn't get a GM laughed at.

pittsburgh could do it, just send mccutchen, cole, alvarez, sidney crosby, evgeni malkin, mario lemieux, and the steelers franchise to LA

sidney crosby is basically the real life charlie from mighty ducks, this deal is destined to happen

Throw in an autographed Clemente jersey, and maybe.

Has Gausman passed Dylan Bundy?

no

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/07/obama-compares-the-farm-bill-to-mike-trout

Extension? that pays him $38 M for 2019?

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/2/23/5439770/mike-trout-angels-contract-extension-rumors

the way baseball salaries are inflating, that wouldn't be that insane

no – but you would expect some kind of discount (or - jesus - *is* that a discount?!)

well maybe not if the deal is backloaded that much. I am a Trout believer, but ya never know.

fangraphs has him worth $45m and $52m over the past few years... so he's still guaranteed to be vastly underpaid even in the first 3 or 4 years of that extension

even assuming his play comes down he'll prob be getting fair value even at $38m

that said i bet there's no way the parameters of that rumored deal are actually true

i'm sure it will be like most every deal with slight increases of a few million a year over the life of the contract

the angels aren't really getting a discount but then again trout is an unprecedented player

i guess they're giving themselves some security against him putting up another 10 WAR season and rightfully demanding like $250 million

it's just money tbf, the angels have plenty of it iirc

the angels aren't really getting a discount but then again trout is an unprecedented player

well, there's still A-Rod...

yeah but what part of makes trout unprecedented is not just his skill level but his place in baseball history, in this case meaning a time in which players frequently sell arbitration and FA years many years in advance

there's just no real example to go off with trout. it's uncharted waters (lol). we basically have freddie freeman, clayton kershaw aaand maybe ryan braun as examples but that's really trying to jam a square peg into a round hole

that's what i was thinking – this is like the Freeman ext except instead of dealing with a good player, this guy is elite.
i think Freddie is a great player and locking him long term was p smart, but i was still surprised at the dollar numbers he secured.

http://mlb.si.com/2014/02/24/mike-trout-what-is-he-really-worth

BP's Daniel Rathman:

"With an average annual value of $36.5 million in the free-agent years, the Angels would be paying Trout to be about a six-win player down the road—a strong bet, considering that he’s been worth 8.3 and 9.6 WARP in his first two big-league seasons. Trout would get $12 million (the bulk of it in the form of a $10 million signing bonus) to play with in 2014, and the Angels wouldn’t face the steepest outlays until Josh Hamilton’s deal expires after the 2017 season. Trout and Albert Pujols would cost owner Arte Moreno a combined $65 million in 2018 and $66 million in 2019, when the former’s hypothetical pact would expire."

If he signs the extension he would still be a FA at 28 which is more or less the ideal age for getting a long-term megacontract.

what the fuck do these people do with any of their money over like 20 million idgi

if trout took a like 20/300 deal everyone would be like "wow how shitty for him" but what is 300 million dollars what does that mean

respeck, knuckles

i mean i hear u cluckin, but there is that much money in the game now and he probably deserves it more than arte moreno

isn't it amazing that pro sports teams demand public money for their stadiums?

i know that at a certain point individual wealth is usually just about competition (a-rod needing to be the highest-paid player lol) i guess i just get annoyed when fans buy into it just as much like it really matters if there's a 3 or a 4 in front of trout's contract

ppl saying things like "he'd be a fool to take a contract now" should probably take a step back for a second. the entire concept of MLB contracts is a bizarre upside-down world and freddy garcia's made $53 million

when someone asks me how many millions 1 WAR is worth now i tell them they're capitalist pigs and stab them in the throat

you are basically otm

i actually feel like if i got $50 million but could have easily have gotten $150 million i would be secretly mad for a while

i mean i hear u cluckin, but there is that much money in the game now and he probably deserves it more than arte moreno

^^ this, it's an $8B pie and you have to divide it up somehow. If you figure that the players are entitled to half of baseball's income and Mike Trout is the best of the 700-odd players in that pool, then $200M or more is a fair number. When you think about it like an hourly or per game wage as if it was a regular job then it never seems to make sense.

do the players get half of baseball's income?

trout will make $1m this season

poor bb

he is the Neck of Baseball

http://instagram.com/p/jM9MVyJtbl/

wow

pfft i could do that if i was mike trout

5 rbi today #countingstats

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/45119/oh-my-mike-trout-may-get-even-better

Hopefully not Alfredo Griffin aggressive. I'm sure he's thought this through.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bi8ANYaCQAAlmvU.png

really, what are the odds he can improve via ANY change in approach?

well look the guy didn't even crack 100 ribbies and 27 dingers is nothing special. those are raul ibanez numbers. nice walk total, but hey where's the clutch? #teamjeter

I didn't watch too many angels games but I assume trout had a shitload of games batting behind such on base threats as eric aybar and alberto callaspo

Dave Fleming's predictions--you'll all love the #1.

http://www.billjamesonline.com/50_fearless_forecasts_2014/

It's been a good long while since someone really had a shot at hitting .400. This guy is so good, if Trout made a run at .400 I think the media will go nuts.

lol come on trout is 90 out of 140 in K%, improving by 2 points isn't really close to enough

(in 1941 williams had a 4.5 K%, hit more homers than trout probably will and had about a similar BABIP)

MLB Play Index ‏@BRefPlayIndex 3h
#Angels Manager Mike Scioscia had 307 strikeouts in 1,441 career games as a player; #Angels MVP Mike Trout has 305 strikeouts in 336 games.

izzat supposed to be a counterpoint or a fun fact

fun fact

the game done changed

six years, $144.5m?

free agent at 28 ffs

Yet another transaction made strictly for David Cameron's amusement.

"If he's happy, good for him."

BIG if, amirite?

just read about this, it had to be done. i know he is a happy guy.

Seems like a great deal for him - he leaves ~$30mn on the table for three free agent years while guaranteeing that if something catastrophic happens he's set, and will still be in position for 12 years/$400mn (or whatever inconceivable number salary inflation has reached) after that.

cameron's a nut tbh

@robneyer
Hey let's make a list of the DUMBEST baseball players! Starting with silly Mike Trout and addle-minded Dustin Pedroia!

@robneyer
Also, in addition to not understanding how you CRITICIZE a player for agreeing to be paid $140 million ...

@robneyer
... I don't understand why people so obsessed with who makes what, who makes the most, etc. At this point dollars are practically the same.

@robneyer
also I just learned on Twitter that $140 million does not constitute "a huge payday."

Brian Bannister is on Twitter, btw.

@RealBanny
@DCameronFG He just secured more money than many HOF players made in their entire careers combined. The game has changed a lot #perspective

I officially give up trying to weigh these contracts. My first thought on Trout was that, in light of Cabrera, he could have gotten much, much more. (Because really, who can get by on $140 million?) But yes, this frees him up for a zillion dollars when he's 28.

This young man will just have to learn how to save up to get something really nice for himself.

neyer otm

i really don't think people should write these sorts of dumb columns about how much money he COULD make unless they were gonna talk about all the ways to uniquely use that money, like "buy a koch brother" or "how many islands"

"at this point, only trout's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren are set for life. but if he just held out a bit longer, his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren and maybe even his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren could've also been set for life"

"how will trout's legacy last centuries into the nuclear wasteland human extinction era if he takes his payday now? his money won't even have a chance to lose all symbolic value!"

lol otm

i think it's fair to wonder as an exercise how much money trout could have gotten... it's not like it's something that agents and players don't think about?

i don't think "mike trout just signed for less money than jacoby ellsbury" is a facile point

Normally I don't care about the money end at all, but with Trout and Cabrera signing a couple of days apart--it's almost like a private joke they worked out between themselves--comparisons are inevitable.

Congrats to the Angels, by the way.

Less money than Ellsbury isn't a good comparison, nor is Cabrera's contract. Arbitration wasn't going to pay him $20mn per.

well fortunately i got mlb.tv to work just in time for that opening blast

mmm, precious rbis

Footage of him running around the stadium with his younger cousins before the contract signing press conference was kind of adorable

TROUT

did he do something else or are you just now responding to the HR please keep things up to date in the mike trout thread

don't think so, just got home and saw he homered in his first AB

HE JSUT GOT A SINGLE HE IS SO GOOD

Dave Cameron: I think making life decisions that involve intentionally taking less money than possible are generally as a positive character trait. On the other hand, one could argue that Trout had some responsibility to help elevate the pay scale for those that come after him. It depends on your perspective.

what

Fuck this guy. I am trading him off of my team in MLB 14: The Show as soon as I get home.

dave cameron needs to get out of his parents' basement, etc. etc.

dave cameron is a good baseball writer, just for the record

trout has a responsibility to the future once in a generation talents who FUCKING SHATTER all arb records that came before them. ok thanks comrade dave cameron.

How is MBT: TS 14?

i am bored so i just clocked trout's time around the bases on his triple last night, from contact until he slid into third, and got 11.6. that's really fast, right?

very sad MLB TS 14 for PS4 doesn't come out for another month, I won't be able to rig a bullshit trade between the Angels and Giants for Trout for 27 more days.

that dave cameron point is weird, i don't think he believes that

dave cameron is also the best baseball writer on the planet

he's alright, he is just really weird about money things and gets totally anchored down by fangraphs' trademarks, ie using fWAR as an unquestioned be-all end-all thing that never really requires any further analysis beyond the x.x figure. which isn't surprising, he's gotta support the company product, but it's annoying. and in his chats he comes off as possibly the most humorless and irritable human being in the world (and every answer essentially boils down to "just look at the fWAR figure/look at what ZiPS projects the fWAR figure to be")

that said, this fangraphs article is a fun read that will try to convince you that mike trout will either die horribly or end up as one of the 5 greatest hitters of all time. amazing thing is it doesn't even begin to consider position/defense/baserunning, just pure offense.

you're referring to the one that deals in cumulative standard deviations, right? yeah that line near the end where he (not dave cameron, it was another writer) was like "remember, trout could die in a plane crash tomorrow" or something to that effect was like...ok man you don't really need to cover ALL the bases

Cameron got tot ridiculed by a speaker at a SABR convention a few years ago

to be fair he had to mention "tragedy" cause conigliaro came up as an obvious comp

http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-15123593dt.jpg

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/sayhey1/trout_zps8d9134c7.jpg

I was more of an APBA guy myself.

dude continues to hit really long home runs

@Trouty20
Go see my boy @MarlonWayans hilarious movie #ahauntedhouse2 in theaters TONIGHT!!! ahauntedhouse2film.com/easter

welp

You found his one weakness.

K'd 3x by Scherzer

4 Ks in the game, first time

seems like he either mashes the ball or whiffs this year. actually include the last month of last year too iirc

'nother hat trick tonight

He made a point of saying he was going to be more aggressive before the season, so maybe 150 Ks a year will be normal for him now. Everything else seems in order, although you would think it'd be harder to keep his average up in the .325 range the more he strikes out.

he's charging toward a 30% strikeout rate...with pujols going gangbusters, he's not going to walk like he did last year. eventually this is going to be a problem

it's been like 3 games

his K rate was >23% the last 2 months of last season too. it's a real trend

bring it up again when he isn't leading the league in WAR

I'M JUST SAYING

k3vin k0uzmanoff u jus jealous dog

http://treasure.diylol.com/uploads/post/image/448159/resized_troll-face-meme-generator-mike-trout-sucks-u-mad-9d1b3d.jpg

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/51231442/v32471921/clelaa-trout-robs-chisenhall-of-a-homer-in-center/?c_id=mlb

I enjoy eating one of these while watching an Angels game

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bg2BUBqCIAE-VOW.jpg:medium

http://i.imgur.com/wva9wnI.gif

btw further research reveals that the game of 7/9/11 I attended (box above) in Anaheim was his 2nd MLB game; saw his first career hit.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/forcing-a-reason-to-worry-about-mike-trout/

i'm only posting this because i'm superstitious and every time i express concern he breaks out, so: he hasn't had a good game in over 2 weeks

triple high off the wall; good work

first walk off game winner tonight (3 run shot)

stiff back (no wonder, supporting that neck)

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/6/3/5777770/mike-trout-injury-angels-back-discomfort

12-game hitting streak (slugging over .600 now):

.388/.475/.816, 4 HR, 13 R, 16 RBI.

yeah the guy doesn't really hit singles anymore

he hates resl baseball

*real*

his isolated power is .299 now

can't even hit .300 send him down

I threw those stats together in a hurry last night--think I shortchanged him one HR (didn't realize he hit two last night). His slugging average is probably closer to .850 through the streak.

Kevin was onto something earlier in the year: the strikeouts were clearly hurting him. He's only struck out six times in 49 AB the past 12 games. Maybe that's tautological, I don't know.

.387/.467/.747 in his last 20 games

that second HR was mighty impressive last night. i'm surprised he made contact at all.

http://cdn.fangraphs.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Screen-Shot-2014-06-16-at-1.01.24-PM.png

trout is actually hitless this year on balls in the upper third of the zone

If it were him against me, I'd definitely bring the high heat. Wouldn't touch me.

love that this is off jason vargas

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/0/v34086831/laakc-trout-blasts-solo-home-run-in-the-1st-inning

Mike Trout's home run tonight was calculated at 489 (!!) feet. That's the longest HR hit in MLB this season. (via @ESPNStatsInfo)
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More
ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo 14m
Mike Trout's 489-foot HR is the longest by an AL player since ESPN began tracking home runs (2006).
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Adnan Virk, ESPN ‏@adnanESPN 14m
Mike Trout hits 489 foot HR, longest by an AL player in 8 years
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Steve Duncan ‏@steveduncan2013 16m
Angels' Mike Trout hit HR measured at 489 feet - longest ever at KC's Kauffman Stadium - in 1st inning (ESPN) http://ift.tt/1mnYyyM
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holy shit

@msimonespn
Mike Trout has 5 HR on pitches thrown below the knees in 2014. No one else has more than 2. pic.twitter.com/TmxzXYv0Wq

was disappointed he DH'd last night... then he got thrown out at third to end the inning, down 1-0!

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/7/21/5922537/mike-trout-albert-pujols-mock-fernando-rodney-arrow-celebration

Just scored from first on a single.

lol it was a foot away from being a homer, only a single because pujols is as slow as pujols and markakis's arm has a reputation

Oh.

in July:

.270 /.336 /.540

man, he sucks

Can't say I expected to see Jack Perconte in the top ten here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/stolen_base_perc_career.shtml

Twenty-three facts on his 23rd birthday:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/for-mike-trouts-23rd-birthday-23-superstar-facts?ymd=20140806&content_id=88237504&vkey=news_mlb

22. Trout is one of just four players to hit at least .320 with 50-plus home runs and 200-plus runs scored over his first two big league seasons. Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams and teammate Albert Pujols round out that group.

god 23 already? he's totally boring now

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=200&type=8&season=2014&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=20%2cd

weird how his defensive stats just keep getting worse and worse. FG has him as almost the worst regular center fielder, non-kemp division

was not expecting that. kinda feel its a sort of aberration, no?

in straight-up CF counting UZR he's 116 out of 123. Cutch is second to last.

skeptical as always of advanced defensive stats, particularly for one season, but both systems had him crashing hard back down to earth last year too. plus his base running has definitely regressed, so maybe there is an issue

although you wonder how much his stolen bases in particular have taken a hit due to the confidence he has in the hitters behind him. still, if he steals at 90% he should be going a lot more

he's huge, he's like an elephant crammed into a human body, i think he's just destined to be one of those great hitters who had nice defensive and baserunning stats early on and then stopped

yeah i mean i figured that would happen in 5-7 years because of his body type, but he just turned 23 and he's always been huge

mega-slumping right now. .223/.305/.420 since the ASB

by fWAR he's been worth -0.5WAR over the past couple of weeks

rumors swirling they're gonna DFA him

the angels are still doing very well, which is the important thing I guess.

If I had to vote for MVP today, I'd go with Trout. Felix looked like a possibility two or three weeks ago, but his last two starts have been somewhat shaky. Donaldson and Gordon...that's my limitation; I'm much more confident evaluating players offensively than defensively, and the case for Donaldson or Gordon is very defense-dependent. That's today--obviously, Trout has it within him to run away with the award in September.

Having said that, this Posnanski piece gets at something I've been thinking about recently as Trout bounces between first and second on Baseball Reference's WAR list: if Donaldson or someone else ends up first, what kind of debate might come out of that?

http://joeposnanski.com/joeblogs/talking-about-the-v-in-mvp-again/#more-2294

if you only care about hitting (as has been proven in recent years), abreu has a strong case

like that joe pos post

there was a post on fangraphs today looking deeper into Gordon's defensive numbers and the conclusion was basically that he's the exact same defensive player he's always been, but the crop of left fielders is so bad this year that the UZR baseline has shifted way down, making him look elite by comparison, when he's merely very good. i feel pretty ok not considering a legit MVP case

If he didn't have MVP clinched already, he does now. He's trailing Trout Mask Replica in ILX threads 13-2, however.

In case you missed it from last night:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/27/video-mike-trout-makes-insane-no-look-leaping-catch/

@keithlaw
Let's get him fewer at bats! #smrtbaseball “@Alden_Gonzalez: Mike Scioscia looking at the possibility of Trout batting third next year..."

kinda interesting article here: http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/balls-in-play-expected-homers-leaderboard/

it calculates expected home runs in 2014, based on batted ball distance/angles, and then compares them to actual home runs.

it finds that mike trout was the unluckiest in baseball, with only 36 HRs in 2014 as compared to the 43 that would be expected based on his contact %, outfield flyball %, etc.

Mike Trout. he's just so unlucky

more of the same to start the new season: a dinger and a golden sombrero in his first game

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2015_04_06_anamlb_seamlb_1&mode=video

semi-robbed one, too

I thought the golden sombrero was 0-4 4K?

whoops i thought it was 3Ks, it's 4

FUN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_sombrero

Future weather man?

http://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/32dmtq/opinion_theory_mike_trout_maybe_secretly_wants_to/

http://www.famouspictures.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/I_want_to_believe5.jpg

HOUSTON -- Mike Trout hit the 100th homer of his career on Friday, lofting a fly ball over the left-field fence at Minute Maid Park to become the youngest player with 100 home runs and 100 stolen bases.

he's having a really great start

to his career

arguably

Ben Lindbergh on the career of Jeff "Dad" Trout

http://grantland.com/features/2015-mlb-jeff-trout-mike-trout-father/

Sure to be a contentious issue in 2016:

http://www.nj.com/phillies/index.ssf/2015/05/president_barack_obama_petitioned_to_create_mike_t.html

that headline really makes it sound like obama created the petition!

I read it exactly the same as you did ("Wow, is he ever going to catch flak here for being a little distracted...").

He's brought down his strikeouts close to where they were his first couple of years, so maybe last year was a blip.

2012 - 21.8%
2013 - 19.0%
2014 - 26.1%
2015 - 22.8%

Passed .300/.400/.600 last night.

Two more HR tonight.

I suspect Biggio may find his name on the internet a lot for the next 24 hours.

He was asked some questions on Twitter Friday as part of MLB's 'HOF Lounge,' including one from a person who asked which current player reminds him the most of himself. "Mike Trout. He's got a little more power, but the styles are similar as far as speed, power."

He really was a great player for four or five years...

damn

Just a slightly thicker neck, too!

Biggio's career-high SLG was less than .050 Trout's current career SLG.

Biggio's Similarity Score list:

Robin Yount (836) *
Derek Jeter (825)
Joe Morgan (779) *
Paul Molitor (778) *
Roberto Alomar (773) *
Cal Ripken (761) *
Johnny Damon (760)
Brooks Robinson (739) *
Lou Whitaker (739)
George Brett (735) *

Pretty fantastic list--eight inarguable HOF'ers, one guy (Whittaker) who most people feel should be in, and Damon, who was a fine player. Trout's way off--maybe sort of, if you ignore power, which would be ignoring a lot.

Actually, with 836 being the highest score, Biggio was relatively unique.

trout is on pace to surpass biggio's WAR before turning 28

another monster game tonight. 4-4 with 2 HR and a walk

Obviously, looked at overall, it's an absurd comparison. But in trying to figure out what Biggio might have been thinking, here's what I come up with. You've got to jump through a few hoops.

I assume he's thinking of himself during his prime--not his first few years as a catcher, and definitely not his last few barely hanging on. If you limit the comparison to Biggio's '94-98 prime, and compare his pro-rated numbers (per/162 games) to Trout's pro-rated over his career, there are a few similarities.

BA: .308 (B)/.306 (T)
OBP: .404 (B)/.396 (T)
Runs: 130 (B)/122 (T)
2B/3B: 41/5 (B)/36/7 (T)
BB: 80 (B)/87 (T)
SB/CS: 43/9 (B)/31/5 (T)

I'm sure he's thinking good contact, takes walks, extra-base power, steals bases, scores runs. You just have to conveniently ignore the huge HR difference (35-19), the era that Biggio played in, and all those other years when Biggio wasn't nearly as good. If he cherry-picked a different set of numbers, he could probably make a case that he was a lot like Harmon Killebrew.

I'm sure he's just thinking 'good hustle'.

6.8 WAR already, according to BBR

a sabr-inclined yankee fan just asked me 'is mike trout's career floor now mickey mantle?'

i said 'could be, but what if harper's better?'

they're both so young that picking one or the other seems foolish, but i'd lean trout

has a new skill, sort of?

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/mike-trout-los-angeles-angels-mvp-power-opposite-field-homer-al-west-080715

Mike Trout is younger than 23 of the 25 players on the Angels' Triple-A roster.

Looks like one Syracuse Chief is younger than Bryce Harper.

all AAA teams are full of olds though

that is true. tbh it points to the angels system totally sucking almost as much as trout being young and insane

no one has led the league in runs scores 4 straight years; he might. #CountingStats

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/so-you-want-an-edge-against-mike-trout/

this is pretty amazing. trout has seen about 270 first-pitch curves in his career, depending on whose count you go by. he's swung at one of them

^^^ especially lol because ok, you're ahead 0-1 after a taken first-pitch curve; for some reason he's now even better

yeah that makes NO sense lol

i still love this guy btw but it's kind of lame how he's turned into more or less a slugger who's average-to-slghtly-above-average at everything else

he's still #4 in WAR (#3 if you dont count greinke) behind goldschmidt and harper, but i m/l agree

wouldnt be surprised if donaldson passes him by that metric before season's end and def think donaldson is the AL MVP favorite

oh i mean he's more or less the best hitter in the league, so he makes up for it, but the baserunning and defense highlights are a lot rarer these days so he's just a little less fun to watch

yeah i havent gone out of my way to watch an angels game in a while, which i used to do for his sake the last 2 years all the time - last one i saw was the recent 15-3 thrashing by the blue jays in which he went 0 for 3 and made exactly one catch, not an especially great one

It's definitely making the Harper and Trout comparisons a lot less one-sided since they're basically the same-ish player these days.

Two HR in Aug/Sept! Also:

Aug: .218/.352/.337
Sept: .242/.395/.455

two bombs tonight, Angels about to move 2.5 games out from a WC berth. "Recency bias" might get him that MVP after all.

also "being really good"

very troutian TTO game tonight -- 1 K, 2 HR, 3 BB

https://vine.co/v/expH5iXrOWJ

niiiiice

Mike Trout has a Smart Bat

http://www.halosheaven.com/2016/2/29/11133690/mike-trouts-new-smart-bat-is-going-to-impact-baseball-in-a-big-way

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/bryce-harper-is-catching-up-to-mike-trout/

3 hits today, still just at .730 ops. this must be his worst april.

he'll be fine.

i'm sure he will.

http://m.mlb.com/video/v609809983/laacws-trouts-440foot-homer/?affiliateId=clubMEGAMENU

440 feet :O

bat starting to show some signs of life

I don't understand Trout's swing. It feels like it's always the exact same, like he can bend the direction of the pitch to this will and he will just launch it. Down and away, in the middle, up, he will just hit the same way. It's fascinating.

This must be a joke, right?

http://sportsmockery.com/2016/05/source-indicates-cubs-working-on-blockbuster-trade-for-former-mvp/

Not sure whether I should be taking the bait from sportsmockery.com.

given the angel's dire outlook for the next few seasons, there have been some calls for them to consider trading trout. that would be a pretty interesting deal

trout vs kershaw tonight btw

i have no idea about whether or not the cubs are involved, but in general i'd say it would be a bad move for them, taking lots of low-cost talent across many different positions or organizational levels and converting it into one juggernaut of a player. just seems like it raises the risk, whereas having talent everywhere (like the cubs do right now) lowers risk

It doesn't really seem like an Epstein move, especially bc the Cubs are doing great without Trout. I don't know the prospects mentioned in that article but Baez, Soler, and Schwarber would not be huge losses (as much as I love Schwarber).

also seems like a much bolder move than i would associate with arte moreno/the angels

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2016&month=33&season1=2016&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=0&filter=&players=

after yet another round of "is ___ better than trout now" nonsense, trout back in his rightful place

Harper's in a slump average-wise, OBP/Slugging fine. I don't know--I think the two of them are going to jostle back and forth for the next six or seven seasons. (I agree that Trout always seems to operate in the shadow of someone else.)

Just did a quick scan for longest streaks leading the league in WAR (pitchers included). Williams (with wartime interruption), Mays, Mantle, and Bonds all had four-year streaks; Trout is leading the league right now, which if he holds on would push his streak to five years; Ruth had an eight-year streak (almost 11).

Should have checked Wagner and Hornsby.

Wagner: 8 years, almost 13 (two third-place finishes mixed in).
Hornsby: 6 years, almost 11 (a 10th and a second mixed in).

Ruth almost hit 11 years--he had a 9th-place finish in there. I guess I'd choose Wagner's streak as the best ever. Can't think of anyone else who would rank with these names.

Don't mind me, just obsessing.

I missed Pujols and Walter Johnson, and messed up with Ruth, Hornsby, and Wagner. Here are the longest streaks:

1. Ruth (6 years)
2. Walter Johnson (5 years)
3. Rogers Hornsby (4 years)
   Ted Williams (4 years)
   Willie Mays (4 years)
   Mickey Mantle (4 years)
   Barry Bonds (4 years)
   Albert Pujols (4 years)

So Trout has a real chance to match or surpass Ruth and Johnson.

Matt Sussman, BP:

Since the Angels drafted Torii Hunter Jr., also a center fielder, then this means Mike Trout has the chance to push two Toriis Hunter to the corner outfield.

The plural of Torii is Toriii.

His OPS just hit 1.000, his best ever. Who will he finish second to in this year's MVP voting, Machado or Bogarts or Altuve?

My irony's a little disingenuous as, yes, I was rooting for Cabrera in 2012. (If I'd been entrusted with an actual vote, not sure how I would have voted...head vs. heart.) But it does seem clear that, like Mays, he's going to pile up a bunch of second-place MVP finishes to whoever the year's big story is.

12 HOFers he has passed in career WAR... this year

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/07/mike-trout-los-angeles-angels-career-war-hall-of-famers-24-mlb

(of course a few of them are dubious members)

Fewer dubious ones than I would have expected.

becoming more successful in deep counts

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/heres-how-mike-trout-is-evolving/

Great headline:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mike-trouts-teammates-dont-deserve-mike-trout/

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/columns/story?id=6605429

i love reading his old scouting reports. apparently in HS he played a lot of SS (not a surprise, given his athleticism) and even dabbled with switch-hitting. can't find any video of this, sadly

"I can't tell people what I really think because they think I'm insane," Arkansas manager Bill Mosiello said from behind his desk. "Now, they're probably saying, 'You were right.'"

Scouts send Mosiello texts about Trout all the time. Here's one he got last season, when he managed him at Single-A Cedar Rapids, just a few months after Trout graduated from Millville High outside Philadelphia: Maybe this is what Mickey Mantle looked like at 18.

One said: My only prototype for him is Rickey Henderson.

Another said: I've been doing this 40 years. I've never seen a kid doing what he's doing.

The other night, two American League scouts were swapping information about Texas League players. One of them, who had just pulled into town, asked the other to describe Trout's speed. The other guy didn't say a word. He just got this canary-eating grin on his face and slowly traced the Nos. 8 and 0 in the air with his index finger.

Perhaps, in the interests of balance, we should get this out of the way immediately: Trout is not the perfect baseball-playing machine. He's a mediocre base-stealer for his speed, his arm isn't a weapon and some doubt he'll hit the ball with enough lift to be a big-time slugger in the majors. When he hits home runs, they tend to be rising line drives, more like the trajectory of a Ryan Braun home run than a Prince Fielder blast. He takes too many first-pitch strikes for some people's tastes, often hitting behind in the count.

on the way back to the dugout, he avoids eye contact. he sometimes reaches for his glove between innings and makes an imperfect connection with it. his older friend him that his dad died and he froze up. his next day he told him he was sorry but the mood had changed. his speed from home to 1B on routine ground balls to 3B declined significantly between his rookie and 4th seasons. he accidentally ran into the doorway on his way out of the shower. his WAR/PA rolling 20-game average rose and smoothed back down. his bloodied dental floss didn't fly entirely into the trash can. his z-swing % rose from 55.6 to 59.% from 2015 to 2016.

his fart butt farted butt fart

trout cycle watch: HR and a triple through 3 innings

25 today. with 160 homers, 130 stolen bases and 45 WAR

0-3 with 3 Ks. 25 year old mike trout kind of sucks

http://mediadownloads.mlb.com/mlbam/mp4/2016/08/07/1023638983/1470608058466/asset_1800K.mp4 tho

niiiice. he had a nice play going back to the wall last night too

Yeah, and hit a 3-run homer off Felix the other night. As an M's fan it's nice for once to see him do cool shit and not wipe out their barely visible playoff hopes.

lou brock played 18 seasons, had 3023 hits, stole 938 bases

trout has passed him in WAR

smh

You're going to wear yourself out making note of every guy he passes in WAR.

but do be sure to let me know when he catches current surname trout war leader dizzy trout (50.6 fWAR)

Most WAR since 2001:

1 Albert Pujols
2 Alex Rodriguez
3 Adrian Beltre
4 Miguel Cabrera
5 Carlos Beltran
6 Chase Utley
7 Ichiro Suzuki
8 Barry Bonds
9 Lance Berkman
10 David Wright
11 Chipper Jones
12 Matt Holliday
13 Scott Rolen
14 Jimmy Rollins
15 Derek Jeter
16 David Ortiz
17 Evan Longoria
18 Robinson Cano
19 Joe Mauer
20 Mike Trout

Obviously, position players. Sabathia, Greinke, Kershaw, Felix, Hamels, and Verlander would be on a pitchers-included list if you use Baseball Reference. (Not meant as a slight to Trout.)

My takeaway from that list: Bonds retired ten years ago and he's still 8th???

really a surprise? those last years were y'know

yeah whoops I forgot to mention no pitchers

trout is hitting .302/.356/.583 in 104 PAs that have reached 0-2 this season

MLB is collectively hitting .150/.158/.222 in those situations

dang dog

yeah he's an insane 2 strike hitter, he has no fear

it's practically boggsian!

http://www.baseballspast.com/samplepage_files/11094_master_%202_strike_hitting.pdf

They were talking about the AL MVP vote on one of the local call-in shows. Assuming it's a five-way race (Trout, Altuve, Donaldson, Betts, and Machado--you could add Ortiz, I suppose), I think Trout's going to benefit this time from all the closely-matched candidates on contending teams. Voters who only pick players from contending teams as their #1 will still have Trout third or fourth at worst, maybe even second; he'll get #1 or, at worst, #2 votes from more sabermetric-minded voters. Meanwhile, all the other #1s will be scattered between four or five players.

i think if the season ended today the final order would be betts/altuve/donaldson/trout/ortiz/machado

whoa

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/17437855/mike-trout-los-angeles-angels-uninjured-serious-highway-crash

up to 9.3 WAR

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-case-for-mike-trout-for-american-league-mvp/

they're doing these pieces for all the contenders, but trout really is the only choice. a month ago that wasn't the case tho!

xpost only 8.2 by fWAR, but still way more than the runner-up (donaldson, 7.0 fWAR)

why does this guy sit so many games now :(

because the angels are anything but

he's up to 10.0 rWAR now

i don't know why i chose these particular players, but trout appears to be keeping pace

http://i.imgur.com/OIeBQ6L.png

he's got an outside shot at an 11-win season, at least by baseball-reference. and he probably won't win MVP

in more ways than one, this is sort of albert pujols' fault

albert pujols turned into mid-decline phase ryan howard so quickly

pujols has the same WAR (bbr) as Ichiro this season.

and he probably won't win MVP

You think Betts will win, I take it. I'll stick with what I said a month ago (awards thread)--I think Altuve and Donaldson will cut into Betts' support enough that Trout will win. Trout has sabermetric voters to himself; even if that's still a smaller part of the pool than traditional-stat voters, the latter will split its vote.

Cameron:

Betts is clearly a fantastic defensive player, and he deserves credit for his all around game, but the reality is that the argument that Betts and Trout have had similar 2016 seasons is an argument for accepting the validity of single-season DRS at face value. We’ve probably done more to advocate for the acceptance of stats like UZR and DRS as anyone, but even I wouldn’t look at Betts’ 2016 defensive numbers and argue that we should accept that he was the best defender in baseball this year, and far more valuable defensively than Trout, who still plays the more demanding defensive position.

And unlike single-season defensive metrics, which continue to have some noise influencing their results, we can very easily identify the offensive difference between Trout and Betts. It wasn’t just “some walks”; it was 86 outs made. And those 86 outs are why, with all due respect to Betts as a great player who had a great season, it isn’t really all that close this year.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-actual-difference-between-mike-trout-and-mookie-betts/

i'm not sensing a lot of betts momentum compared to previous dudes who have won, it feels like a lot of people are saying trout deserves it.

I think that Cameron article makes it clear why Trout will win. You've got the old-school traditional guy (Luddite, if you prefer) who's going to vote for Betts--but even he's putting Trout second. You've got a second guy who's about halfway; prefers the MVP to play for a contender, but doesn't treat that as an absolute--and he's voting for Trout. So if Trout gets some of the halfway voters, plus all of the sabermetric voters, and then you get people like Heyman putting Trout second (or at worst third), I'm sure that'll put him comfortably ahead of a Betts/Altuve/Donaldson/Machado traffic jam.

still think ortiz will siphon off some betts votes too

Definitely, should have mentioned Ortiz--lots of sentimental support, Triple Crown stats, vote-splitting on the same team, etc.

if i understand correctly how bbref's MVP shares works, a trout win would put him 16th all time. after 5 seasons

@BNightengale
The three finalists voted on by the players for their Player of Year Award: Jose Altuve, Mookie Betts and David Ortiz

the trees do not understand the forest

the trees like narrative, which i guess isn't too surprising

maybe he's a real jerk

he doesn't seem like a lot of fun tbh

from everything i've read his makeup and general likablity are beyond reproach, the issue really is just the angels sucking

there is literally no rational reason for not voting for trout this year btw. he leads in every category. leverage-based, situational, etc he's helped his team win more than anyone else

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/9/7/0/95680970/092014_laa_trout_pats_beltre_twitter_pz1uno3t.gif

so likable Beltre doesn't even punch him here

there is literally no rational reason for not voting for trout this year btw. he leads in every category. leverage-based, situational, etc he's helped his team win more than anyone else

― k3vin k., Friday, September 30, 2016 6:14 PM (fifty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

didn't get his team to the playoffs

like i get what you're saying but all that stuff doesn't matter to the voters if the issue is no playoffs = team wins don't matter

they shd give the MVP to a team then

*throws up hands, throws up*

this is the players' vote. no one should expect the players to care about leverage-based or situational or basically any stats. when trout hits 40 homers as a 41yo DH i'm sure he'll win it then

ugh awards are the worst

trout is so good

What I've been saying:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/09/30/mike-trout-al-mvp-chances/91314092/

there is literally no rational reason for not voting for trout this year btw.

I think that's a bit of an overstatement when you're looking at two guys separated by one WAR on Baseball Reference (if you take the halfway average with the other WAR, it's 1.3). Betts closes the gap defensively, though, and I'm not the person to make the argument for him there.

My prediction--prediction--for A.L. MVP:

1. Trout
2. Betts
3. Altuve
4. Ortiz
5. Donaldson
6. Machado
7. Cano
8. Cabrera
9. Beltre

The 10th spot will either be Kluber in there somewhere, or Edwin.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtyC4-zXYAArB45.jpg

-- joey votto

Always number one in our hearts, Joey.

<3

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8LHQBXVoAEzy7F.jpg:small

Trout is insanely talented, and that’s his foundation. But to be this good and stay this good, players also need to be able to adjust. They need to see weaknesses and work to eliminate them. Trout’s done that! He used to have a high-fastball problem. Been addressed. Relatedly, he used to have a strikeout problem. Been addressed. A couple years back he didn’t do enough on the bases. Been addressed. He used to run below-average arm ratings in the outfield. Been addressed. He’s so good.

Yet I’m a professional digger, in a sense. I’m always on the hunt for unknown strengths or weaknesses, and I’ve stumbled upon something I didn’t realize. There is an area where Mike Trout was bad. Last season, I mean. Who could’ve known? Even the best have their blemishes.

For the Angels team-preview segmenton Effectively Wild some time back, Ben and I talked with Pedro Moura. We did talk about other Angels players — there are other Angels players — but we had to talk about Trout for at least a few minutes. One of the things Moura mentioned is that Trout is still kind of figuring his way out when it comes to starting at-bats. When he first came up, he watched the first pitch almost every single time. As he’s gotten older, he’s become more willing to swing early.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/i-found-a-statistic-where-mike-trout-is-bad/

Legitimately think he might be the best player of all time, barring future injuries/performance drop off.

if he keeps this up for three more years the conversation would definitely start.

in terms of raw ability it's got to be either he or bonds. in terms of production relative to his peers, still got a while to go

i throw Mays in with those two.

even the all time greats from previous eras are in a tough spot comparing to today's players in terms of raw ability. strength, speed, conditioning, nutritional regimens for the average player are just so far above what they were several decades ago

going back to relative to his peers, here is a list of players trout, in his age-25 season, is likely to pass on the career WAR leaderboard this year:

sandy koufax
bernie williams
david wright
joe mauer
justin verlander
torii hunter
orlando cepeda
jason giambi
kirby puckett
mark teixiera
johan santana
mickey cochrane
fred mcgriff
enos slaughter
jeff kent
david ortiz
bill dickey
louis aparico
johnny damon

comparing players across too many generations just kind of gets silly. it's hard to imagine how trout would do in the 30 and 40s, riding around in buses without air conditioning, playing in heavy wool uniforms, getting routinely beaned by gritty pitchers named "bean", etc

xpost probably cano too

xxxp that's true. IMO I think today's players would kick the asses of the 1950's all-star team. mostly because the majority of them are dead, ha ha. but seriously.

from 1989 to 2004, Bonds had one duffer of a season, in 1999 when he hurt his elbow (cuz of all the steroids! say the tabloids). even then he still slugged over 600 and put up 3.3 WAR. granted he wasn't transcendent every one of those years, but his peak with SF is beyond anything that Trout's done, even though I guess it's possible for Trout to kick it up another level, he's still so young. if he puts up 3 or 4 more 9-10 WAR seasons I think a lot of people will be saying just that. then again the conversation started with Pujols too, and we all know how that turned out.

if you ignore era context, today's regulars are better athletes than yesteryear's greats, no doubt. xxp

...merely an all time great at his position and first ballot HOFer lol xp

well, yeah. Pujols is that great. But it seems like "three more seasons like this and he's in the conversation for the best ever" and his sudden decline coincided with each other.

I'm also just being glib. Baseball! ^_^

even the all time greats from previous eras are in a tough spot comparing to today's players in terms of raw ability.

Agree with the things you list after that, but wouldn't raw ability, because it's the most subjective/amorphous/unquantifiable of all those, be the least affected by era? Basically it exists in the realm of legend. To read about Bo Jackson the baseball player, his raw ability dwarfed every player before or since.

maybe "raw ability" is too subjective. by that meant what i listed afterward: strength, speed, conditioning, etc (most importantly, coaching, year-round training) and how that translates to absolute ability

did it again. absolute ability = baseball skills

anyone see the Trout doc on MLBN?

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/7417714/v1251990383/mike-trout-millville-to-mvp

no but i will now

i'm going to guess it's pretty boring