Rolling 2014 Haunted Rocking Chair Thread

YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOCHu6hBoEY

Big Dave is returning.
Henry vs. Lesnar.
Bryan and the Wyatts.
Roman motherfucking Reigns.
Gold motherfucking Dust.
All tag team wrestling.
The potential of El Generico being called up. (And supposedly all those NXT guys are rocking it.)
2014 is going to be great.

The Great Khali.
The Miz and Kofi Kingston.
All the divas currently on Raw and will be forevz because of Total Divas (NXT ones are supposedly great, and trained by Death Ray. Oh and discounting AJ obv.)
Michael motherfucking Cole.
Jerry the childfuc-king Lawler.
Randy Orton.
The return of Sheamus.
Triple H still wrestling 3 times a year.
Alberto Del Rio.
Whenever they decide to do some very awkward storyline about Darren Young's sexuality.
2014 is going to be shit.

Shoot cena orton sheamus. Have big show put down.

Punk Bryan reigns Rhodes Ambrose Rollins Wyatt cesaro as the uppercard. Would watch

tbf orton has just had his least boring in-ring year in ages and ages, he was putting on v good matches pretty routinely

(and he is one of, if not my least favorite main eventer of all time)

yeah i genuinely don't understand orton as a main event guy. i know i missed 03-09 but fuuuucking hell the bits ive seen of it going back are dull as shit, seemingly especially when they include orton. i understand lots of better people retired, died or tna'd (nicest way to put it i guess) but fucking hell, how everyone went through that and decided orton earned enough rep to still be holding the belt FIVE YEARS LATER is beyond me.

ahhh yeah i missed 05-11, by the time i was back they had orton holding the WHC right around the time it was transitioning to a secondary title. i'll ride for his recent heel run but dude was putting on some of the dullest matches on cards for ages. mystifying to me whenever older guys talk him up as some kind of can't-miss talent.

(some of the other talent they were really pushing at that time was mystifying too. fucking bobby lashley?)

Can't help but feel that this whole network thing is going to flop hard. Content on offer at launch just looks like overkill. A whole tv network dedicated to recaps and highlight shows

* All 12 current WWE pay-per-view events – including WrestleMania – will be available to subscribers live, as well as on demand.
* Live pay-per-view 30 minute pre- and post-shows.
* Raw and Smackdown preshows: Every Monday and Friday night, WWE Network will air 30 minute pre- and post-shows for WWE's weekly cable programs Monday Night Raw and Friday Night SmackDown.
* The Monday Night War – a series exploring the shocking real-life stories that fueled the mid-90s rivalry between WWE and WCW®. Battling for ratings dominance, WWE's Vince McMahon and WCW's Ted Turner engaged in a masterful game of one-upmanship, and in the process, elevated WWE Monday Night Raw and WCW Monday Nitro to all-new levels of pop-culture relevance.
* WrestleMania Rewind – a comprehensive look back at the most groundbreaking matches and dramatic moments in WrestleMania history, including never-before-seen footage and in-depth interviews.
* WWE Countdown – a one hour, groundbreaking, interactive, countdown series that puts the power squarely in viewers' hands by giving the audience the chance to discuss and rank WWE's most spectacular Superstars, unexpected moments, best catch phrases and more through digital polling and social media interaction.
* WWE NXT® – WWE Superstars and Divas of tomorrow face off every week on WWE NXT, a one-hour weekly show that features the brightest and best of WWE's rising stars. WWE NXT showcases the Superstars and Divas from WWE's Performance Center as well as appearances from WWE Superstars and Legends in an intimate setting. WWE NXT broadcasts from the state-of-the-art Full Sail LIVE venue on the Full Sail University in campus in Orlando, Florida.
* WWE Superstars – a one-hour weekly show highlighting the best of WWE Superstars and Divas in heart-pounding matches. Features highlights from all WWE programming, as well as a special glimpse at everything going on in the WWE Universe.

otoh of course:

* WWE Legends House – WWE's greatest Legends reunite for a new title – only this time, they're competing outside of the ring. Imagine a beautiful house in the suburbs – perfectly furnished, with gorgeous landscaping, a lovely pool and quiet, respectable neighbors. WWE Superstars from the past including Rowdy Roddy Piper, Tony Atlas and Hacksaw Jim Duggan will turn the neighborhood upside down as the house staff tries their best to keep these Legends on time, on speaking terms, and out of trouble in this new reality show.

Cast: Gene Okerlund, Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Hillbilly Jim, Howard Finkel, Jimmy Hart, Roddy Piper, Pat Patterson and Tony Atlas.

WOULD WATCH

Personally I feel like it will be a success. It costs as much as people pay for mania, I think, for 6 months of goodies and will most probably knock out a large chunk of illegal streaming, youtube royalties they aren't getting and such. I think I'll pay it when it is available over here, mainly because I don't have Sky.

If they could get as many people who bought december to dismember to go for it, on top of who buy the occasional ppv/typical wm buyrates, its fucking golden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa6P58_Dzws
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn2uZ9eKDio

RIP

X-pac heat
Genuine dislike for a person rather than the character he is portraying.
No one wants X-pac Heat
by JJ Caez July 07, 2006

164 48

I can't remember I saw a crowd that fucked off. Jeff Hardy at Victory Road?

*******SPOILERS*******
*******SPOILERS*******
*******SPOILERS*******
*******SPOILERS*******

Make all of your babyfaces lose, including the two main ones in the company Cena and Bryan, the tag champs to the FUCKING NEW AGE OUTLAWS, a non match with Brock and then no Bryan in the rumble, eliminating the guy who anyone could still get behind... poor fucking Rey Mysterio.

That was Great American Bash 1991 levels of bad heat. And lol the rumble was the best they had in years. Last PPV before the network and they think the best statement they can make it fans is fuck what you think you like, heres our shit. This is going to be a disaster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvXRoe3vui0

I feel like they've forgotten how to book the Rumble properly. Punk was supposed to get the Iron Man push but he didn't really do anything in the match. The announcers kept talking about how long he'd been in there but there were no big spots, near eliminations, etc. Same with Reigns, it didn't really feel like a dominating performance, he just sort of outlasted everyone without doing anything all that impressive.

Bad timing for Batista, right guy, but bad timing and in front of the wrong crowds. But it's not the first time that WWE crowds shit all over returning stars who showed up expecting to be back in the main events right away.

Idk, I agree with ahoyboy on this. Obviously the E has a track record of doing their own thing regardless of fan expectations, but this is egregious even by their standards.

Bryan is just so over! He's patently the only guy in the company that the fans want to see in the main event right now. It's one thing when they're stubbornly refusing to push a guy who the smarks like but who doesn't get great reactions. This is the most consistently over guy they've had for a very long time. When else have they had a guy who got such great reactions and wouldn't get behind him? Even fuxking Jeff hardy forced his way in eventually, and he was never this over.

They can't write this off as just a bunch of smart fans throwing their toys out of the pram, everyone wants to see Bryan make it.

Batista is absolutely not the right guy! I mean, who the fuck wants to see Batista main event wrestlemania?! He was a big star, sure, but I'll be amazed if he brings in the buys or the ratings to justify not running with Bryan. And if they keep the belt on orton then their match at wm is goin to be a total snoozefest. I hope the fans do shit all over it (entirely possible at this point).

The line is that quality always rises to the top and if you're any good then the fans will eventually get behind you and then you'll be a star. What a load of bs.

I agree with all that, by "right guy" I meant that there's nothing wrong with bringing Batista back and having him main event some PPV's. He was a main eventer before, he left when he was still on top, and there are plenty of fresh matchups for him. There's money in Batista, but bringing him back for the Rumble and parachuting him into the WM main event is not what anyone wants to see right now. WM is supposed to be the culmination of the storylines of the previous year, so unless you're the Rock, people want to see the guy who paid his dues all year get the big win, not some guy who just shows up and gets anointed into the main event.

Big Dave was so gassed by the time he got to the ring, it was like a Warrior hof tribute. And then he couldnt celebrate at the end because he was having a cardio heart attack. If it is Orton v. Batista at WM, something has to give. Most important of which is Dave getting used to a treadmill.

The entire arena was booing the shit out of him so there wasn't much to celebrate anyway.

I wish the fed had some balls and fired/demoted a bunch of people. It feels like WCW in 98/99 right now with an incredibly talented undercard and no-one giving a shit about the top guys. Roman Reigns is a fucking beast... with no real obvious main event match at WM other than going first pointlessly breaking up the Shield.

Well on the one hand I'm kind of grateful that we get this much. The very fact that the card at the moment has such great depth and they're prepared to at least try and use it is a step up from what things had been like from 2006, at least. But yeah, it does have the feel of WWE circa 2002/2003 when the uppercard was stacked with stars and nostalgia acts who would shortly be on their way out (Rocky, Austin, Goldberg, Steiner, Hogan, Nash and more, all heading off at different points around now), with the likes of Lesnar, Angle, Guerrero, Benoit, Jericho, Edge, Christian, Mysterio, RVD etc. all champing at the bit to get their crack at the top. It was no accident that when so many of the top guys did eventually move on 2004 featured some really great matches and moments.

Definitely feel that even outside of Cena and Orton (lest we forget, in 2004 and 2005 HHH and Taker were as ominpresent as ever) there are so many hosses just clogging shit up now - Sheamus, Del Rio, Kane, Big Show, Ryback, Mysterio are the main ones who I kinda wish would just gtfo now - even Sexual Chocolate has had his day in the sun now.

Bryan, Lesnar, Punk, Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose, Wyatt, Ziggler, Langston, Rhodes, Cesaro - there's enough here to have a really dynamic, entertaining wrestling product if anyone in charge was that way inclined. Not that any of that matters really, these guys will largely be used to get other people over and make the hosses look good, with an occasional run to keep their fans quiet (obviously this doesn't apply to Lesnar, Punk, maybe soon Reigns). Twas ever thus

now now now

I dont watch nxt but people love that Rusev dude from last night. Generico is down there too, as well as a couple others who get high praise.

They've not done a post-mania firing for a couple years. Fucking how the likes of Miz, ADR etc. are still there I don't know. They honestly could shave like half their wage bill and no-one would notice. Evan Bourne hasn't wrestled in 2 years, for example.

Yeah I don't know too much about the NXT guys. Think the only thing I've seen was that Generico / Cesaro 2 out of 3 falls match, which was damn good.

There are certainly some wrestlers on the roster who are very stale now after years of being misused and will probably never set the world on fire but who could contribute a good deal were the focus to shift on to the wrestlers listed up-thread. Evan Bourne would probably qualify here I think. Likewise Kofi, Jack Swagger, Fandango, Barrett, Tyson Kidd.

None of them really able to go out there with yr Ortons, Cenas, Sheamuses and bring anything other than a dull match, but put in there with Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, Cesaro, Rollins et al. I definitely think they could have solid-to-good mid-card matches and feuds on a regular basis. I reckon they should bring back John Morrison tbh, probably the worst mic-worker in the company but he was more than capable of keeping pace with a good opponent.

NXT is, by some margin, the best WWE program right now.

my friend cant kick the wwe habit but I stopped watching around the hhh corpse fucking era but dip in every now and again..

how in the fuck are they still rolling out the same main eventers since then?

Interesting time to be asking that question imo. Since they started focussing more on sustainability and merch sales and the like (basically ever since they bought out wcw) the live audience has become noticeably less vocal (with a few exceptions). The younger fans and casuals like cena, basically, and orton and Batista, so why change a model that works?

And contrary to what some might say, I don't believe that this bears much relation to the received wisdom that wcw collapsed because they stuck with the old faces rather than pushing new talent. Because like him or not, cena is still good business. If he gets booed by the "smarter" fans, so what? Ratings and buys are stable with him at the top.

But this whole thing with Daniel Bryan, this is perhaps a sign that they are reaching, or have reached, a parting of the ways. Orton/cena is the rivalry of this whole era/situation, and last night may have been an indication that even casual fans are bored to shit with this rubbish.

Bryan is fresh, he's hot and he's a damn fine worker. Maybe last night was a sign that they aren't gonna get away with wheeling out the same main event acts for much longer? Once even the casual fans are pissed its hard to see what else they can do

issue seems to be that he's getting Austin-level crowd reactions and idk like Dolph Ziggler like house show numbers/ratings

they probably should try booking him as an Austin-level shitkicker outside of matches though, the 20 minute in ring verbal confrontation where nobody gets doused in liquids or the shit kicked out of them may have come as far as it can as a medium

Big Dave is returning.
Bryan and the Wyatts.
2014 is going to be great.

anyway, haven't actually caught up on what happened with the Rumble yet, excited to see how the above unequivocally positive indicators for the future of the business continue to pan out

Xpost to biscuits - Do house show numbers tell
the whole tale though? The ppl in charge must surely realise that they will never (eeeeeeeeever) draw the same figures on a consistent basis again.

The game has changed. UFC, the internet.. No one gives a shit about wrestling. This thing with d. bry. was briefly a major story on the bbc website ffs. I mean, why the fuck not run with it? Is Batista gonna pop PC buys that much? Errrr I doubt it. May as well give the live crowd something to cheer

I think house show numbers and TV ratings are important to Vince, for better or worse, and Meltzer was saying that Bryan consistently does worse house show numbers than Cena when they split the roster

Batista did pop a big TV rating last week but kind of assume interest in him will taper off, if Brock fuckin Lesnar didn't even move the numbers that much after his first match

it's a weird situation that they end up doing things with TV/house show business in mind and end up being held hostage by the overwhelming hostility of the hardcore who turn up to their actual shows

like are people principally hoping for Mania plans to change so it's actually a good card, or hoping that Batista vs Orton actually goes ahead for the massive comedy value

we def need a resurgence of the nWo-era practice of dudes getting hit in the head with a half full cup of coke while trying to cut a promo btw

haha would be more than happy for Batista and Orton to main-event WM were there the prospect of both men getting pelted with litter and cups of piss.

Aside from anything else, I'm kinda curious as to whether this is really a match that even Vince would want to see main-event such a big show (ok so it's not an actual anniversary show, but it sorta is - incidentally, what kinda bullshit are they pulling by not staging this event in the Garden?). I mean it'll no doubt fall below the Streak match and Cena's match in the pecking order, but even so. The last time Batista main-evented a WM the show pulled the worst numbers of any WM in a decade

MSG, iconic as it is, seats 18,000, give or take a few crammed in extra chairs cos rings aren't that big maybe; these days they can reasonably expect Wrestlemania attendances to be more in the region of an England friendly or a rally against the closure of a moderately popular hospital

I actually kinda enjoyed the nature of Orton's bullshit stolen victory on Sunday but yeah if he's still champion at Mania it's hard to see a match coming out of it that doesn't get shit on; I guess they might have been planning it on the basis that people would've been psyched to see unpopular Orton destroyed by popular Big Fuckin Dave, but the nature of BFD's crowd reactions (and RATINGS) might give them cause to reconsider that in the next month

lool can you tell I'm a fan who doesn't give a shit about their numbers or their profits? fuck how many seats they can sell, the wm's that end in '0' should happen at the Garden!

I keep forgetting that Randy Orton is perceived by top brass as a premium level star who works a great match with superb psychology (have seen numerous ppl talk about what a great worker the guy is over the last few years). Maybe they really do think he's the best man for the job? Errrrugh it's fun to talk about but actually quite difficult to give a shit, nothing ever changes. Orton vs HHH over Taker vs HBK WM 25, never forgive never forget. Vanilla midgets don't sell house show tickets

And that includes HBK.

issue seems to be that he's getting Austin-level crowd reactions and idk like Dolph Ziggler like house show numbers/ratings

they probably should try booking him as an Austin-level shitkicker outside of matches though, the 20 minute in ring verbal confrontation where nobody gets doused in liquids or the shit kicked out of them may have come as far as it can as a medium

― random accies memories (Sgt. Biscuits), Tuesday, January 28, 2014 6:32 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well... yes! I don't understand how the whole world can agree on being fucking bored of weekly multiple 20 minute promo segments and the WWE doesn't see it.

my friend cant kick the wwe habit but I stopped watching around the hhh corpse fucking era but dip in every now and again..

how in the fuck are they still rolling out the same main eventers since then?

― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:54 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Interesting time to be asking that question imo. Since they started focussing more on sustainability and merch sales and the like (basically ever since they bought out wcw) the live audience has become noticeably less vocal (with a few exceptions). The younger fans and casuals like cena, basically, and orton and Batista, so why change a model that works?

And contrary to what some might say, I don't believe that this bears much relation to the received wisdom that wcw collapsed because they stuck with the old faces rather than pushing new talent. Because like him or not, cena is still good business. If he gets booed by the "smarter" fans, so what? Ratings and buys are stable with him at the top.

But this whole thing with Daniel Bryan, this is perhaps a sign that they are reaching, or have reached, a parting of the ways. Orton/cena is the rivalry of this whole era/situation, and last night may have been an indication that even casual fans are bored to shit with this rubbish.

Bryan is fresh, he's hot and he's a damn fine worker. Maybe last night was a sign that they aren't gonna get away with wheeling out the same main event acts for much longer? Once even the casual fans are pissed its hard to see what else they can do

― I don't believe in the beauty standards (Windsor Davies), Tuesday, January 28, 2014 6:15 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I recently re-read the Death of WCW book. Discussing the radicals leaving and that era, Alvarez puts it very plain and simple in a way that makes perfect fucking sense. Wrestlers have their age and then they have an on-screen age. So it didn't matter that DDP was pushed in his mid 40s because he was still pretty fresh. Hogan wasn't dissimilar in age though and no-one gave a fuck anymore because there was literally nothing else to do with him, he was stale as shit after 2 decades. Those old guys, Hogan, Sting, Flair, Macho etc. could have spent 98-00 putting over Jericho, Guerrero, Giant, Booker, Benoit, GOLDBERG etc. and WCW would have been the biggest fucking thing still (well up until Benoit...).

Cena, Orton etc. were invested in heavily way too early and still aren't old in terms of performing. Orton's only 33. And the WWE most probably think thats fine, he has another 10 years. Presuming injuries don't add up, he can. But he's been regularly high up on tv for over a decade and its as stale as Hogan in 99, regardless of in ring capacity. I understand why the people who became big names between 02-07 are there - namely injuries, deaths and WWE not knowing how to train new people/steal from the indies yet. Orton and Cena and Miz and Sheamus and etc. were the best available. It also means they've had a lot longer to get international exposure, so of course they've got a more in built following after 10 years than Bryan's 2 or 3. Now they have the Performance Center and CZW/ROH/Chikara/PWG/etc. so these guys have someone to phase them out.

I've never been one to be all about sales but if they want to give Bryan a fair chance, maybe ugggggggggggllllyyyy fucking beard and goat theme t shirts aren't giving a true indicator of popularity. at least the wee should provide him with something wearable by the public before judging him on it.

So... rumours are that PUNK QUIT?

Wow, did not see that coming. Rumours abound that he's desperate to main-event a Wrestlemania and he's pissed off about how many people are above him on the card. What with previous comments about part-timers taking up spots that should be going to the guys who work their asses of all year round...

Almost certainly just wishful thinking that this is a reaction to the bullshit they've pulled this week (it might be partly that but there must be much more to it), but even so, Vince and Trips, what have you done?

on the other hand, nagl really for Punker to throw a wobbler about not being high enough on the card and just fuck off

From what I've seen, and maybe more importantly than eurgh batista part timers and wm main event is that before the royal rumble he may have been the guy to speak up to vince about losing ppv cheques due to the network and after hearing nothing and on top of that and seeing what happened this week, he said fuck it and quit?

His contract was up in the summer and you'd think he'd at least pull for a retirement angle within the shitty circumstances but as a statement about dudes losing out on money so the mcmahon fam/investors could get richer, i guess walking out is a decent statement. wrestling needs more people doing this shit to try and stop it being a hhh/vince wankfest.

of course it would be nice if he was trying to be all about the wrestling maaan and tried to pop the indies a bit or give guys a voice but otoh its more likely hes just an angry little dynamite kid who didnt get his way and is taking his ball home.

He's been mainly going through the motions for months. Sucks if it's true, but I'm pretty tired of seeing a sloppy and disinterested Punk week after week after week.

A pity there isn't any competition for him to defect to. A run with ROH would be nice and would maybe spike interest in the indies a bit, but it wouldn't be anything more than that.

A year ago, Orton was more stale than anyone in the company, but the Summerslam angle and everything leading up to it made him interesting again. I'm not sure how they messed it up, but HHH going from heel to face and back again every week was a big part of it. They just had to copy the Austin/Rock storyline from '98-'99 -- the face gets screwed out of the title, the heel becomes the new corporate champion, there's a chase, and the face wins the belt a few months later. How do you screw that up?

It's obvious that Punk is burned out but if he wanted to go home you'd think he'd want to stick around for one last Wrestlemania angle. And for a guy who says he's so old school and expects people to do the right thing for the business as far as *his* career is concerned, if he was heading home then he should have put somebody over on the way out.

Punk lost his smile

ambrose used the phrase "haunted rocking chair" on raw so it's all good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6IpZH_J-sY

i need to start watching nxt. this is fantastic.

I've been watching NXT for about a month and I think it's my favorite of the shows. Fun to watch guys figuring it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo1rvx8zRTw

sick jam.

Cesaro vs Cena: Yep

Gross-Forearmed Franchise Guy and Invincible Workrate Strongman deadlifting each other in increasingly glorious/improbable ways while the commentators do their exaggerated freakout shit in a way that actually seems appropriate

I just watched last night's Raw and I'm surprised how much I enjoyed Cesaro v. Cena. One of the most enjoyable Cena matches in some time.

RIP Big King Mabel Daddy Viscera

I truly regret neglecting big fat guys for my dead pool.

http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/Antonio_Cesaro_vs_John_Cena_1.gif

is elimination chamber gonna be worth watching?

wtf the new age outlaws exist.

the Shield / Wyatts rivalry is interesting, a kind of dark seriousness to it that seems unusual for wrestling as I know it.

sweet match too.

The bad news Barrett character was such a bad idea. More of it doesn't make it work better.

yeah I don't understand what they're trying to do with him at all.

Poor Batista, maybe the only way to get anyone on his side for Wrestlemania is to have him face Cena.

Batista's wrinkly head gets more pronounced week by week and creeps me the hell out. He looks like a testicle.

v good chamber match besides the lame overbooked ending

quite silly, yes. you already have six guys in a huge weird cage, it's not a scenario that's going to take many more convolutions before it falls apart.

Halfway through the show and:

Wyatts v. Shield is Match of the fucking Year. Its going to be very hard to top. 5 out of 6 in that match have the potential to have legit hall of fame worthy careers. Luke Harper is so creepy. Seth Rollins gets better every day. Dean Ambrose is the perfect Keifer Sutherland 80s movie villain. Reigns is a God. Bray too, I guess. Rowan... will need a sexual chocolate esque mid card reboot.

The crowd chanted BOO TISTA.

Big E v. Swagger was fun but its nothing you wouldnt get on Raw.

NAO need to go. Usos are great.

The Crime Time fight was ok. I feel like I once started a thread about unnecessary tag team break ups. Kicking Marty and throwing him through the glass made an ok midcarder who needed razor ladder matches and 4 years until the iron man match win. But Titus ain't Michaels and O'Neill ain't Marty (actually he might be.)

The EC intros have taken like 15 minutes.

Coming out party maybe not the right phrase given how long The Shield in particular have been knocking around the main-event, but jeezus did those six guys look good out there. Especially in the finish, when the Wyatts started stalking and Roman Reigns found himself caught in the same trap that The Shield have used for so long, holyyy shit. And powering out of the Sister Abigail at the end for the close-but-no-cigar comeback, that was some fucking old school babyface-against-the-odds shit. The moment when Reigns started to force Wyatt's wrist up, wow

Surely they've realised something is gonna have to give with Batista / Orton? Unless they want to stick that match in the middle of the card under Taker / Lesnar, HHH / Bryan, Cena / Wyatt and whatever it is the Shield are going to be doing (triple threat? Reigns vs Ambrose and Rollins in a handicap match?)

Tbh that actually looks like a pretty passable WM card, minus Batista / Orton (which would be fine in the middle of the card as I say, but not as your big title match). Shields / Wyatts starting to build a little star power up, particularly after last night. Amazing what can be achieved when talented wrestlers are hired, given gimmicks that aren't beneath contempt and then given time on PPV to show what they can do. Cena needs to put over Bray Wyatt though, if that's gonna have any legs.

I have no idea what they do but in my head (fantasy wrestling booking is a gym time distraction favourite of mine) I really hope its set up akin to WMX and Bryan has to beat Hunter on the night to be put in the title match at the end of the night. Between now and then he can feud with Kane, put Steph in some compromising position (shame Shane isn't around to do the exact same set up Mankind did to fit Rock) to add the stipulation to the match and then have some face offs with Evolution. Maybe have him fight Flair or something too, just for completists sake.

Yeah, the future looks hella bright. Fire Miz, Big Show, ADR, Batista and Orton and its pretty much a dream roster. For all the talk of shitting on the crowd recently and having Orton be the insipid face of the company and the boring as shit authority figure storylines, wrestlemania could be a classic. Last night was excellent too, and Royal Rumble had a classic in DB v. Bray.

Tonight is the biggest Raw since Raw 1000. UT, Brock, Hogan and Vince all presumably return. WM has to be set in stone. Like I said, it could be a classic and there are many combos of what the card may look like in making it really fun. The only real match we know is Bray v. Cena and that should be amazing regardless of who wins, as I'm sure Cena won't be super duper Cena and at least give Bray some rub if he does win.

Run that stipulation for Bryan / Trips, have him go over and inserted into the title match only for Big Dave to pin him clean and fair in the middle of the ring. WRESTLEMANIA MOMENT!!! And then Trips comes out, prods Dave with his index finger and covers for the title. WRESTLEMANIA MOMENT!!! And then Hogan can bust on out there to immediately challenge HHH and beat him in 20 seconds. The show ends with Hulk Hogan standing tall as WWE Champion. WRESTLEMANIA MOMENT!!! Kevin Nash will have been involved, but no one's quite sure how or why.

Also I don't know how they do it but I'd love the Shield to stay together as faces for the next year, along Roman as title challanger/holder. Splitting them for a Mania match will be disappointing.

I'd personally love: Bryan-Hunter (Bryan wins to go into the main event); some tag team clusterfuck w/ Usos, NAOs, Shield, other Wyatts, Rhodes fam, el torito gang; making two matches somewhere between Big E, Swagger, Cesaro, Sheamus, Jack Swagger and maybe Ambrose for hard hitting undercard matches w/ titles; Taker-Brock with Sting in the rafters; Cena-Wyatt; token diva; Orton-Batista-DB that I'd also love to be a clusterfuck where Bryan some how defeats every part of the authority (Evolution + Michaels + Kane etc.? throw them all in).

That seems like a hell of a show to me. If the rumours are true and Batista is contracted to win the title at mania, have Orton-Batista early with the DB-HHH stip match and then DB fucking running knee him at the end for a big YES! as Dave can't work two matches a night. I'm sure they can easily find a good heel to feud with Bryan until SummerSlam not related to Evolution so him punking them all out will be fine.

---

Or they can have RO-BFDave third on the card and pretend it doesn't exist and no-one is booing.

I am fascinated by the idea that Hunter said ten years ago Orton-Batista had going to be the headline to WM30 regardless of circumstance and so its happening. Its not even trolling, its just over a decade of stubbornness.

It wouldn't be a disaster were Cena to go over Bray, but I think the card is such that there can be other feel-good babyface wins this time round (Bryan, basically, also maybe Reigns, obviously Taker and *shudder* Botchtista). Think they should strike while the iron is hot on these newer guys, I can't remember the last time they had such a raft of workers so obviously on the cusp of big things. Cena doesn't lose much shine if he puts over Wyatt here, there'll be shenanigans from Harper and Rowan anyway. But if he beats Bray clean on such a big show after the wins that Bray has been getting this year then it just kinda kills yet another promising heel's momentum.

Cesaro needs a big match on this card I feel. Him vs Sheamus in a face vs face power match where they just whale on each other would be eminently acceptable, provided Cesaro gets the win.

Cesaro v. Swagger also acceptable. Throw in some Zeb-Hulk Real American nonsense too and it would be really fun.

I'm interested who seems to get the post-WM Raw reaction this year. Last year it was Ziggler and Fandango. The year before was all about Bryan losing in 18 seconds. This year I wanna say Cesaro? Depends on how the next 6 weeks are booked I guess. There's still SO much to happen w/ Hogan, Sting, booking the damn card, proper turns etc.

Also lol poor ziggler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S9ODZCk0H4#t=0

I want a Bryan v. Kane feud, where Taker comes back to save his brother. A Taker heel/Bryan face WM match would be amazing. Crowd would be torn, and a Bryan win to break the streak would be bigger than the belt.

Anyone sign up for the network today? I'm hearing lots of "content unavailable" problems and such. I figured I'd wait a bit.

currently jobless and youtube/daily motion/prowrestlingtorrents still exist so no. i think i will when i get a bit of money and stability but i know i have to save every last penny until like october... so maybe when it properly launches in the uk anyway.

USA only I thought? Not arsed with all that mucking around with proxies and whatever

OSW Review - Old School WWF *Video* Reviews
about an hour ago · Edited
EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE WWE NETWORK!
• These pics are from Vince's introduction, and the Benoit & Over The Edge 99 disclaimers. OTE has ~12 minutes cut.

NON-AMERICANS: You can sign up from OUTSIDE THE US!
• Create a new account http://network.wwe.com/ (don't use FB/Twitter)
• Get fake US address http://www.fakenamegenerator.com/
• Use your own paypal account ($9.99 per month with a 6-month commitment)
• No VPN required on desktops/laptops (eg Chrome) but Phones/tablets seem to be Geo-locked to USA. You may need a VPN/proxy (eg Tunnelbear, unlock-US). PS3/PS4? Create a US account.

EVERYBODY:
• 'New' RAW & SDs won't air for 30 days after their original TV airing
• Live PPVs will be available on demand right afterwards
• STILL CENSORED: e.g. ECW Swearing and original music is dubbed out
• RAW archives only go back about 2 years (and also the first few eps) SMACKDOWN goes back about a year.
• Streaming quality is variable because of the surge but when everything calms down it's excellent
• Devices: Desktops/Laptops/360/PS3/PS4/tablets/phones/ROKU box/Apple TV. NOT XBOX ONE YET. Chromecast has issues at the time of this post.
• Register with two devices at a time.
• Any questions ask below!

maffew at botchamania also says essentially click US as country of origin and thats enough to get it.

haha was coming here to post the Booker T youtube, truly the lord taketh away and the lord giveth

The only real match we know is Bray v. Cena and that should be amazing regardless of who wins, as I'm sure Cena won't be super duper Cena and at least give Bray some rub if he does win.

yeah Cena seems like he's having a ton of fun lately having crazy non-formula matches with talented guys he has an ostensible style clash with

without the deadwood mentioned above there are plenty of good potential matchups between all the various technical little guys/tank-topped swamp monsters /insanely strong hosses/Roman Reigns

kind of hope they send Ambrose into a 1.0 Jake the Snake heel push post-Shield, try to generate some old fashioned I Am Genuinely Uncomfortable Whenever You Are On Camera heat

tempted by the shonky UK WWE network thing but kind of unclear if the free trial is actually a trial or they just give you a week free then hoover up your bank account forever; if they work out how to pull the ladder up and cut off the motherland it could be a pain in the ass

In retrospect this thread should perhaps have been called The Road To Wrestlemoania but we weren't to know I suppose

I'm watching my first episode of Raw for ooh maybe twelve years? So far Hulk Hogan has been cheered a lot and rambled a lot, and everyone has been talking about WWE Network a lot.

now as everyone enjoyed part 1 so much we have an ADR - Bootista rematch.

nice of both the director and commentators to acknowledge the Bootista movement.

That's the best they could do with Bootista's incredible lack of anyone giving a fuck? how sad.

felt like they handed Batista the mic and let him come up with a response on the spot.

I didn't mention it last night but it seemed odd that Cesaro was built up as a monster with superhuman strength, only to have him tap out the second he's put in the STF.

I guess he's super strong not super tough.

lmao @ hogan fucking up selling the network within a minute. selling the wwe universe to the wwe universe brother!

lmao @ the batista-orton promo. they chant for punk. "if they boo me, i boo them back!" oooooh dave.

people chanting we the people to cheer the foreign white heel against the nice black american dude? im reading too much into that right? either way it makes me a bit uncomfortable.

fuck me thats a horrible crowd for bray v. reigns. you get the two biggest stars of the next ten years in the main event and you chant for jerry fucking lawler and husky harris and every other fucking wrestler? gtfo. well done for ruining it.

Paul Heyman just isn't a short-haired man, he has a ghost ponytail much like the ghost moustache we find on the upper lip of formerly moustached men who've recently shaved. More conspicuous in its absence than it ever was when present.

Trying out the network. Live streaming works great - they're running shows throughout the day and no hiccups or anything wrong at all.

The on demand vault stuff though has been a different experience. Tried about ten different things and they all froze between 1-10 minutes of starting. However, right now I'm watching Starrcade '83 and it's working fine. Tried earlier and it kept freezing after 3 minutes.

Spoke too soon. Died about 35 minutes in.

Think I'll leave it for a while until it settles down a bit, the internet here is shoddy anyway.

In other news, looks like they officially turned Bootista heel last night. "I will destroy your heroes" Kinda helps the tv shows because now at least they can pretend that they've got themselves a lightning hot heel rather than an failed superstar babyface. But does that leave Orton as a face champion? :((((( This match is still gonna suck seven kinds of ass, idk if they're gonna run with Batista as the new choice of the Authority and have Orton go rogue or what. They haven't really left themselves much leeway with the other matches now set in stone. Heel vs heel is never gonna happen at WM, so I suppose a turn for Orton must be in the offing. What a fucking mess.

Its Dragon v. Evolution I tells ya.

This vid was recently reuploaded to Youtube in the wake of the sad passing of Nelson Frazier Jr. Can't make up my mind whether my favourite part is the juxtaposition of Big Kev's snidey revisionist takedown and Mabel's wide-eyed naivete ("I felt like it would've been better for me to be the champion and let Diesel chase", "It was a good match") or the transparent David Brentism of "they were going to fire him on the spot [...] I said fire him, fire me". Kevin Nash - eats, shoots and leaves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KloN39L8nk

NXT Arrival kicked of with a match of the year candidate. Cesaro v. Zayn was special; great wrestling, great pacing, great ring psychology. High bar for the rest of the show.

The next two matches aren't just failing to reach the bar they're tarnishing the damn thing.

I'm really into watching all these old PPVs on the network. Just finished the Wrestlevision Classic from 1985. It's the Survivor Series tourney before it had that name, and was a blast to watch. Lots of fun pairings, and a heaping helping of prime Macho Man.

If anyone has recommendations for classic events I'd love some tips.

wcw in 1994 pre hogan is increasingly becoming one of my favourite eras - sting pillman austin cactus vader flair steamboat rick rude regal - its a perfect roster.

wm17 19 and 24

no way out 2001? if thats the one with rock angle and the three stages of hell

idk any ecw but heatwave 98 is generally considered the classic

summerslam 98

are the clashes on it? wrestlewar... 89? if thats the end to steamboat-flair.

great american bash 1991, king of the ring 1995, wcw in 1999 and 2000 (although i think spring stampede is a beloved show), december to dismember and royal rumble 2014 for hate watching.

Thanks! I've seen some but by no means all of those. Looks like every WWE, WCW and ECW PPV is up to stream so all of these recommendations should be accessible.

Had nothing on this morning and I'm hungover to hell and crave entertainment so I've caved and set up the free trial for the Network. Pretty good really, isn't it? Just watched the MSG show from December 1991 with Hogan vs Flair, Bret Hart vs Mountie, Rockers vs Nasty Boys. Good fun show, Flair / Hogan makes for interesting watching given the eventual situation at WM VIII. Flair bumped like a champ for him all match, as you'd expect, but then was allowed to kick out of the Leg Drop (or at least get his foot on the ropes). Crowd was loving this stuff.

dayyuumm, just dawning on me how much content this actually is. It'd be worth it for the PPVs alone. Is the current plan just to keep adding content then? It'd be absolutely extraordinary if they got the complete archives of Raw, Smackdown, Nitro, Thunder, ECW Hardcore tv etc. up here, not to mention all of the super shows from the '80s etc.

Streaming quality for me so far has been fine, no delays, no problems, all in HD. And I'm working off quite a crappy internet connection here, max download speed is around 400/500 kbps. Seriously impressed so far. Might watch some of the early In Your House PPVs later.

Ah, jinxed it. It seems I can't play any of the videos now except for the two I've already streamed this morning. Piss.

I gave up on trying to do this from UK cos I couldn't get it to work on the hilariously low-budget PS4 app, but the In Your House and War Games blu-rays I ordered just turned up so eh

Spring Stampede 1994 is definitely up there with the best, has the novelty of Muta being introduced as heelishly "intending to take the US title back to Japan" even though he's fighting uber-heel Austin, but then the crowd eventually goes crazy for him anyway because he's doing avalanche hurricanranas in the USA in 1994

Stunning Steve Austin is like this endlessly fascinating alternate path of history, totally different kind of character and worker to prime Stone Cold but pretty much just as good and with tons of matches against the ridiculous roster hoy notes above

Ah I've managed to get this sorted I think, just needed to use a VPN or equivalent to kid them that I'm in the USA. Using UnblockUs at the moment, you get a week's free trial before they require payment so I'll make a decision about whether to bother with the whole thing next Saturday I expect.

And straight away I'm back to just straight loving this service. Watching the first In Your House show atm. I find this period of WWF history endlessly fascinating to read about, but I've never watched much beyond youtubing the odd match. Like, just such a colossally mismanaged shambles from top to bottom, it's hilarious.

On the one hand you've got Bret Hart, at this point the most over, established guy with main-event credentials on the roster, incredible worker, going out there and stealing the show in the opening match against Hakushi (incidentally, what became of this Hakushi guy? he looked damn fucking good in this match). Some of the spots in this - Bret's Suicide dive, double suplex over the top and Hakushi moonsault to the outside - were badass.

And then Diesel vs Sid is the main-event! I mean sure, it's funny lol but idk what Vince was thinking. All good fun though, anyway.

Looks like they're missing a bunch of WCW events from the late 80s/early 90s, including Wrestlewar (though I've seen that Flair v/ Steamboat match before). Decided to watch Halloween Havoc 1993 because I've never seen it and the card looks decent.

ooh - the Shockmaster without the glitter helmet! Poor Tugboat.

Have done a little bit of research with regard to what the plan is for adding new content from the vaults. My concern atm is that, for example, the first episode of Raw is no longer showing up (you can still get to it via search though so idk if this is intentional or not), but there seems to be a degree of discussion about whether there's gonna be a constant process of changing up the content each week, similar to many other on-demand services. The emphasis will be on the live-streaming TV channel aspect of the service with the on-demand there as a bonus. Of course I have no idea whatsoever how true this is.

If it is true, it would be a bit of a shame I think really. Obviously this wouldn't apply to PPVs but even so, I hope that this eventually turns into an insanely complete archive of all the content that they own.

I hope so too.

By the way, this Steamboat v. Orndorff match at Halloween Havoc '93 is horrible. Missed spots galore, Ricky oddly sloppy, and it goes on and on and on.

Orndorff was basically one armed by then right? (Although that must be about the time he floored Vader in the showers so I guess he could still go.)

Just watched Zayn-Cesaro and holy shit this is not hyperbole, thats one of the 20 best wrestling matches I've seen in my life.

Cesaro's uppercut is the best move in pro wrestling today.

Yeah, that match was the best in AGES.

For sure, that uppercut through the ropes was a fucking GREAT spot

Heyman's 10 minute long Punk-isn't-here troll promo is the match of the year

does anybody bump better for a chokeslam than Lesnar

hogan?

http://wrestlingonearth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/awkwardshield.jpg
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhQhYKjIEAAlyBQ.jpg

is that michael rapaport

Been rewatching some old Wrestlemanias in anticipation of XXX (which will now definitely be quite good because they're gonna have Bryan do the triumphant Bret Hart two-matches-in-one-night deal) and it's just occurred to me - wtf happened to The Miz? I mean ok, he was the worst guy to main-event a WM since Diesel and everyone could see it (and he fucking won!) but like, at what point did the administration realise that this guy was a fucking feeb who could never make it to the top level? I stopped watching at some point pretty early in that interminable title reign so I missed the moment when they decided to drop him like a hot brick.

I personally think it goes back to the Survivor Series when Miz and R-Truth were jobbers in a main event to Cena and Rock. They did that excellent Raw On Strike angle. Then the next week, they had the best 30 minute start to Raw in forever, where it was Hunter reffing Sheamus v. cena and cm punk commetating as they were the only scabs. And then they did the shitty Johnny Ace and The Miz saves the day; so Cena has to fight both of R-Miz on his own, decks them in like 5 minutes and still calls in the Rock to do it again a couple weeks later to do it 'to save the WWE'. It was maybe the worst ever case of Super Cena and that storyline/period is when I officially gave up watching Raw. Even still now I think I've only watched a handful of full episodes since and generally check just whatever like match/promo or two the internet says is worth checking.

The Miz always sucked though, and him as champ was a fucking embarrassment. Between him and Barrett Garage must have been the scariest period to work in professional wrestling, it must have looked like a fucking deathknell. No wonder thats when the performance centre and stuff got commissioned.

Yeah I totally agree with that last point. In hindsight, 2008-2010 was just horrifying. It was like the New Generation era again in terms of how bad the booking got. Every single person they tried to elevate was quite clearly not good enough and never going to stick - The Miz, Barrett, Swagger (remember that title run in 2010?!), R-Truth, Drew McIntyre, even Sheamus, who has admittedly turned out quite well in the end but at the time, when he won the WWE title within a month of arrival off the back of being gym buddies, it was just like are you fucking serious? None of them could talk and none of them could work a decent match.

Then there was Jeff Hardy's departure, Punk getting his legs cut from under him at the end of 2009 by Taker to go and spin his wheels in the midcard, the ongoing use of Rey Mysterio, Kane, Big Show in main-event feuds even though no one wanted to see those guys at the top at all.

Agree that this realisation, combined with Taker, HBK and HHH all basically calling it a day at about the same time, probably led to the significant change in direction that followed, and also probably helps explain why they let Punk go so wild before MITB 2011, they must have been getting desperate by that point.

*gym buddies with the Hs

yup. ive heard a bunch of times that hbk didnt need to retire but he just looked at the roster and thought 'who the fuck do i work with anymore? these schmucks' and quit

WWE has sent out a survey to fans on their mailing list asking for interest in several potential WWE Network reality shows. The shows and summaries of the pitches (via PWInsider) are below:

* Blackman's Bounties: Former WWE star and legit badass Steve Blackman reality series following his bounty hunting team based out of Harrisburg, PA. Think Dog the Bounty Hunter.

* NXT: Behind the Scenes: A reality series following the talents trying to make it out of the Performance Center and to the main roster, looking at their work, their personal lives and the fraternity of the NXT brand, including the heartbreak of being cut. So, it's Tough Enough-esque.

* Pros vs. Joes: Pretty much the same as the old SpikeTV series, pitting WWE talents against an average person in physical and non physical challenges. The non physical challenges listed included an air guitar competition. The physical challenges were described as similar to American Gladiators.

* WWE Around the World: Following WWE talents taking part in some of the scariest stunts and attractions around the world, such as shark diving and eating strange foods. It read as if it was modeled after some of the Travel Channel's "Extreme" specials with a dash of Anthony Bordain's No Reservations.

* WWE Dirty Jobs: Just like the Discovery Channel reality series of the same name, WWE talents have to perform unpleasant jobs, including going into Chicago sewers and picking up garbage in NYC.

* WWE Prankdown: a practical joke show that features WWE talents pulling tricks on unsuspecting "Superfans." The example given was John Cena and Randy Orton both wanting to buy an expensive car and getting into a fight at the dealership, only to show the damage they caused was part of the show to trick the fan.

* WWE Rescue: a reality show where WWE talents come to the homes of "super fans" help them with their personal and business problems. Think Restaurant Impossible meets Nanny 911.

* WWE Ultimate Challenge: WWE's version of CBS' Amazing Race with a 12 hour extreme scavenger hunt in different cities.

* Xtreme WWE Collector: Starring "Super fan Michael Patterson" - basically a WWE version of Travel Channel's Toy Hunter, except Patterson is chasing WWE toys and memorabilia.

YES
YES
YES
YES
YES
YES
YES

I would watch it all.

idk how I ever doubted that this Network thing would work, I'm just cursing that it only arrived 2 years after I left uni.

brother this thing is swallowing my spare time

done some of the countdowns, some of the old round tables which Flair ruins by just fucking yakking over everyone endlessly, Cena vs Youmanga, Doink vs Marty Jannetty, Benoit and Angle vs Mysterio and Edge from No Mercy 2002 and Lesnar vs Undertaker HIAC (FOR HEYMAN'S SCREAMING)

I've been taking advantage of the backlog of Raws to start from the beginning and work in the PPVs as I get to them, it's fucking amazing! Relatively few stellar matches (though the Flair vs Perfect loser leaves town match was a hell of a treat, wasn't expecting that so early in the run), but just seeing some of these guys during their actual run with the company is so much fun e.g. Razor Ramon back when he was the top prospect in the business challenging Bret Hart for the title, some of those promos!!! or like Repo Man (who was kinda entertaining and actually not entirely awful, who knew? feuding with Macho Man over a stolen hat etc.

it's cool how in retrospect vince actually shouted AN-BE-LEAVABLE more than he shouted WHADDAMANOOVER

Kinda incredible how shitty Raw looked in those early days too, tiny tiny crowds, minimal production value that is actually endearing - the ring girls with their sign cards were a great feature - Brain just being unstoppably hilarious from start to finish regular as clockwork every show etc. Man but Vince really was the pits on commentary / presentation

lol xpost

aw im so jealous. i think the girlfriend would leave me though if i got it. football manager causes enough of a strain. that said she's on a two week work experience course, so i need to get in more wrestling. all ive watched this week is raw and taker v. batista at wm23.

i've never watched an old raw, since it was on and i was 6. i rewatched 123kid v. bret recently though, still great.

idk enough about pre-97 wrestling to say this as fact but didnt p much every territory film in some shitty bingo hall? like if you watch old jcp or memphis or whatever, its in front of about 14 people. even wcw saturday nights are rubbish.

some of the mid-south stuff from the '80s looks relatively pretty slick tbh

Yeah, but every one of those 14 people started a band became a wrestler.

I'm so pumped about WM. Its gonna be the best since idk 24. Gimmick battle royal with importance so it'll last longer than two seconds? Bray who has been in two MOTY contenders already with Cena who is secretly a great wrestler when time calls for it*. Bryan doing double duty. Lesnar bumping like a boss. The Shield, always. Oh and whether Sting or Punk comes out being the best potential sight of someone since Lesnar returned.

*Watched the Cena-RVD One Night Stand match the other day. Cena was such a great dickhead heel that night.

For sure, on paper this is shaping up to be a great card. It'll also be fascinating to see them finally stick it all behind Bryan, it feels like although the likes of Punk and Sheamus have had big WM matches in the last few years, the reeeeaaaallly big main events have been dominated by Cena, Taker, HHH, The Rock, Orton, HBK, Batista.

How long has it been since someone new was actually elevated to be the top guy at a WM? It's got to be pretty much a decade since this last happened, when Cena and Batista got the kick upstairs at WM21. And no, The Miz does not fucking count.

If they really follow through on this and have Bryan win both matches (and how are they not going to do that really, it would be ridiculous) then ought to fix him in the A-League for the rest of his run with the company, and I can't wait to see it happen.

http://www.kayfabenews.com/mordecai-overlooked-hall-fame-yet/

it's funny because his run was actually short-lived and underwhelming

"Cena who is secretly a great wrestler when time calls for it*."

his 2014 thus far has been great, Raw matches with Cesaro and Harper in particular have been really really good and two of the early highlights. he's definitely revitalized by the influx of newer talent being elevated

Definitely. He was on the Steve Austin podcast talking about it and it was really refreshing to say what he actually thought. His opinion was 'Well everyone sucked 5 years ago but me, Dave and Randy so of course we went over all the time in crappy matches. But now there are actually good workers around and its way better for everyone!'

don't have proper internet so can't watch wrestlemania :''(. who wants to do live play-by-play for me?

long story short: bryan/hhh was terrific

Cena still sucks

Cesaro rules.

YO REALLY

just started watching. michael cole thinks a promo between hogan, rock and austin which hogan fucks up like a hundred times is "the greatest wrestlemania moment in history."

http://www.f4wonline.com/images/maniafan.jpg

instantly legendary

that was really fun. cena v bray was especially good. tonights raw will be a big one. (idk whether to talk about why, because spoilers. maybe a thread where we can chat openly? because some big shit happened and i dont want to ruin it for anyone.)

Jeff Jarrett has announced a new company called Global Force Wrestling, with Toby Keith.

Because his last one and his last spot in WCW worked out so well.

So last night's Raw was a fuckin' doozy then! Great crowd as usual but also well-booked and just all-round good times. Seriously, the last two days have felt impossibly smark-friendly compared to usual WWE standards.

Cesaro's clearly on the verge of getting a rocket strapped to his back as a guy with legitimate skillz, how can we get him more over? Ah yeaaah, we'll put him with Paul Heyman! What a terrific idea. Cesaro's not bad on the mic, but there are very few guys in the 'E where I wouldn't be in favour of just letting Paul. E do their talking for them. Like, within seconds of coming out Heyman had not only introduced a hilarious new moniker for Cesaro ("the King of Swing") but he'd already got the crowd chanting it!

Straight away this feels like a direction that could lead to big main-event things for Cesaro. Heyman guys vs Bryan later this year, I would think. Lesnar/Bryan has got to be set in stone for Summerslam now, but Bryan/Cesaro would be an incredible placeholder feud in the meantime or afterwards. And then later when it all falls apart, a possible Lesnar / Cesaro confrontation on a big PPV? Holy shit I think that'd have a chance at being the best big-man match ever. (I would also be in favour of having Bryan go over Lesnar and Cesaro both, only to have Heyman reveal his ace-in-the-hole, the final Paul Heyman guy - CM Punk!). Think Heyman vs Bryan absolutely has to be the direction this year once this shit with the Authority/Orton/Botchtista is blown-off.

The Shield cementing their face turn by siding with Bryan against the uneasy Evolution alliance was great to watch as well, those guys are just such badasses. I hope the unit sticks together and they don't break up prematurely, there's still a hell of a lot of mileage in a face Shield team in the WWE.

Another good outing from the Wyatts allowing Bray to get some of his heat back, a return for RVD, the crowd doing their Fandango thing again, a proper debut for Rusev (poor Zack Ryder) and a LIVE promo from the WARRIOR! That actually was kinda restrained and made some sort of sense, incredibly.

So in short a damn fine show. all of the momentum in the company is now with Bryan, Lesnar, Cesaro, The Shield and the Wyatts. And there are others who could make it with just a little work - Big E, Ziggler and Cody Rhodes in particular. If only Punk hadn't burned out. Struggling to think of a time when there was a comparable degree of talent on the roster all on the cusp of busting out. Maybe at the very end of the Attitude Era with Angle, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, RVD, Edge, Christian, etc. Although obviously the business was in a v. different place at that time.

Where does Heyman rank now on the all-time list of managers? I've got a lot of love for some of the older guys (in particular Captain Lou, but the Grand Wizard was also an incredibly fun character (old interview segments and manager best-of compilations are pretty much the only wrestling-relating thing I enjoy watching from before about 1985, certainly before 1980). Definitely think Heyman is attaining god-like Bobby Heenan levels of managerial prowess right now

Fine show. Really excited about the world title. Just off the top of my head you could do:

Extreme Rules: Bryan v. Batista
Payback: War Games Evolution & Someone (Rusev?) v. Bryan & Shield
Money In The Bank: Bryan v. Shield, Evolution, Cesaro, Wyatt, Cena, Henry, Rhodes etc. ladder match
Battleground: Bryan v. Cesaro
SummerSlam: Bryan v. Brock

(then build for Brock (c) v. Reigns at WM31?)

ORRRR like 20 other combos, none of them bad. Exciting time.

Its great to really see how NXT is working too. Rusev and Paige called up, Rose and Bo getting vignettes. I'd presume a mass firing is coming soon to make room.

(if they do wargames i know it is kane but corporate kane is the worst character since idk simon dean)

ha I really enjoy corporate Kane as a silly character, especially because it involves Kane not wrestling more than short tv matches

apparently they're shying away from mass cullings in favor of letting contracts run out (PR move?). see Ezekiel Jackson's recent departure

urgh really?

i guess we will have the 'jtg has been employed xyz days' meme for ages still then, which is p much the only plus side

RIP, Ultimate Warrior.

Wait, WHAT?! Shit that rather changes the complexion of the HoF and Raw speeches. That sucks

DAMN!

He was the best horrible wrestler, a vile right-wing bigot and its a shame he died. Very odd and yet appropriate timing.

Lots of online speculation online it was suicide due to how his Raw speech went...

It looks like he had a massive heart attack. Steroids, man.

His RAW promo looks morbid in retrospect but his promos were always about the spirit of the warriors living forever and all that.

http://imgur.com/a/u9Xj3#1

so the road agents are joey mercury, road dogg, johnny ace, irs, finlay, arn

triple h still needs his lines written

"Finish - RybAxel over" is a disgrace to humanity I never want to read again

(FIRST TIME EVER) for Paige and Alicia Fox? what a selling point!

the evolution/usos notes are especially mind numbing.

bray's are written too. internet reports would make you believe he scripted them himself but i guess not (especially working around cena's schtick it'd need to be scripted i guess).

CM Punk is INJ. Evan Bourne isn't but he's still under MISC. I guess that 'waiting out the contracts' thing is real, poor Bourne.

Looking at the rosters seperated into BABYFACE/HEEL catagories makes me feel a lot less excited for the future than I was last weekend.

Humor
Is there humor on the show?

DOES THE PROMO MAKE SENSE

Reading this really drove home for the first time what a fucking terrible idea it is to script all the promos and never allow the talent to do their own thing.

What the wrestling world really needs of course is a conglomerate of middle-Eastern oil barons to decide that they need a more positive public face in the us, initiating and bankrolling a heavyweight competitor to steal talent and provide an out for the likes of Ziggler and Ryder.

No matter how exciting the wwe roster looks, the lack of competition will always kill anything interesting in the end

Return of evolution feels like a come back tour of an aging rock band. Pretty cool, but much better if you'd seen them the first time round.

ive not seen the latest raw but it does seem like its to put over shield. which is great.

i am fucking happy with the progession of the shield btw. i'd be really happy if their is never a break up and they do it properly. i maybe actually have enough faith in hunters obsession with the horseman to do it right... wm 35 main eventtween pure friends reigns v ambrose bet
is the ideal. pure wrestlibg ideal.

argh phone messed that up a bit and i was gonna say more but you get it.

I totally agree, The Sheild are fucking awesome and it can only get better. While I'm here, I'm loving Cesaro being a Paul Herman guy, it's about time he got some props, he is a great wrestler. I hope they don't fuck it up.

Herman guy? Heyman! Stoopid phone.

Heyman guy thing is turning into a bit of a mess though. The crowd is fucking desperate to cheer for Cesaro and pop for all his signature spots, meanwhile Heyman's there going out of his way to draw heel heat, it feels totally all over the place. Either this Cesaro / Heyman thing is gonna be a real short run ending with Cesaro turning on Heyman and going fully-fledged babyface or they're going to have to give the fans a proper reason not to like Cesaro, because by this point it should be obvious that Paul Heyman's just so damn entertaining that being with him isn't even a reason to boo people anymore.

Kind of interested to see Bad News Barrett getting pushed, the gimmick is ridiculously cheap and one-dimensional but Barrett personally is growing on me, his hamminess is so much fun. He's probably still not worth a damn in the ring but he'd definitely be more interesting in the upper mid-card rather than doing whatever the hell it is he's been doing since the Nexus fell apart.

Speaking of heels that are getting way more over as babyfaces right now

http://i.imgur.com/Mxs7Eky.gif

https://twitter.com/WWERomanReigns/status/458485930958278656

This guy's going over Brock Lesnar at WM31 btw, the reports of how over he is with the higher-ups are totally credible and justifiable. The guy is going to get crazy over when they give him a proper solo programme against a top heel

he does look kind of like a smudged photocopy though

The Wyatt Family and The Shield are the best thing to happen to WWE in years. Worth watching the shows just for them.

Though with how often the announcers talk about "brainwashing" with the Wyatts I'm surprised they don't sell a "Braynwashed?" shirt.

He's probably still not worth a damn in the ring

check his match with Sheamus from this week's Raw. he's got it down.

Cesaro needs to destroy Swagger and move on to a feud with, say, Cena if they want to salvage his push.

Hmm, I dunno about that. I mean I agree it would be good to push him up the card sooner rather than later, but I don't think it's a mater of salvaging his push just yet. His momentum might stall a little (already has actually) and that's not good, but the fans aren't going to stop cheering for his big spots anytime soon.

I couldn't sleep last night so I threw on the latest nxt. It is just squash matches? i don't really get it or why it is supposed to help anyone?

also adam rose is horrible and whoever said its ok for raw needs firing

these are the only 2 seconds of tna i have seen in 2014 and they are worth everyone seeing http://gfycat.com/DeadlyFinishedBoar

also lol eric young is champ? the bad comedy wrestler?

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--JGedZDMI--/mfxzbhxkwyzn7vyijjag.jpghttp://www.accelerator3359.com/Wrestling/pictures/mryan2.jpg

Crikey, and he won it off Magnus?! I've never watched it outside of half-a-dozen recommended matches but it doesn't seem long ago that the TNA belt was getting fought over by Kurt Angle, Sting, Samoa Joe, AJ Styles etc. What the fuck happened there?

Also that gif is fucking wonderful, and it's Bubba Ray Dudley still gets paid each week to be putting people through tables on TV in 2014. I heard he'd had a JBL-style late-career renaissance but if you ask me that's still just Bubba fuckin Dudley

*it's good to know... etc.

tbf Bubba Ray as a main eventer seems less bizarre to me than when I returned to wrestling after years away to see 'Sexual Chocolate' Mark Henry as an unstoppable monster world champion.

http://gfycat.com/ForsakenSparseFrenchbulldog

Seriously would keep watching just for these guys right now, definitely think that individual singles runs whilst still nominally being a team is the best way for them to go

Shield v. Evolution was genuinely the most fun. If it doesn't end up my match of the year then this year is a fucking classic (it already might be.)

Bray v. Cena last night (and the past couple Raws tbh) is Dungeon of Doom levels of bad.

Watching the main event now and this is some fun attitude era garbage hardcore. No movez at all. Not seen this in forever and its pretty fun and refreshing. Wonder if Heyman booked it.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/a1f92ffa354610a7e1797561b02742cf/tumblr_n52vfi633Q1ty96ego1_400.gif
https://31.media.tumblr.com/a1f92ffa354610a7e1797561b02742cf/tumblr_n52vfi633Q1ty96ego1_400.gif
https://31.media.tumblr.com/a1f92ffa354610a7e1797561b02742cf/tumblr_n52vfi633Q1ty96ego1_400.gif
https://31.media.tumblr.com/a1f92ffa354610a7e1797561b02742cf/tumblr_n52vfi633Q1ty96ego1_400.gif
https://31.media.tumblr.com/a1f92ffa354610a7e1797561b02742cf/tumblr_n52vfi633Q1ty96ego1_400.gif

I turned on the main event last night on my ipad with no sound and was pretty damn bored with what I saw.

gifs of seth rollins is a definite future thread to be made

http://i.imgur.com/RceNWPR.gif

That's amazing.

Bryan needs neck surgery :(

Its good they have Cesaro, the Shield, Wyatts etc. because fuck me I'd be depressed if this happened to Punk in 2011. Daniel Bryan has been the most consistent joy in wrestling for the past 2 years and if he has to take time off just after getting the being john cena title, that will be such a kick in the teeth. It was bad enough for Ziggler last year but for the BJC Title Holder? Boo, injuries.

http://www.lolwrestling.com/how-long-has-jtg-been-employed/

7 years! Pop the champagne!

jesus christ, does he have one of those mark henry contracts?

last week i was in paris and caught an episode of raw during a bout of insomnia, lemme tell you bray wyatt's vague profundities sound even more vague and profound when some dude is doing them in french voiceover.

also caught an rvd match for the first time since he's come back and he's kinda sad to watch these days, isn't he? he's lost his speed and flexibility to the extent that what used to be super fluid and dynamic in his style now seems quite stop-start and clumsy, and he doesn't seem to have done anything to compensate for that.

just watched this. pretty wild.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HitHAHRTmcU

Having a bad day? Vince McMahon lost $340 million yesterday. WWE stock price dropped 50% after WWE's new TV was announced. So what happened?

• Earlier this year, share prices exploded from about $8 to $30 with buzz over the Network launch and new TV deal.
• NASCAR has the same demographic as WWE (with better sponsors and about a million more viewers than RAW) and got a deal worth $820 million/year.
• With that in mind, Vince hoped/promoted getting double or triple their current deal.
• WWE's lineup of RAW/SD/Total Divas is worth about $95m. They got $160million.
• This low-balling means there wasn't a bidding war for WWE's main shows and NBC Universal don't think much of wrestling.
• This sent investor confidence down the toilet, and WWE's stock price with it.

Update on the WWE Network
• Prior to it's launch, WWE threw around getting anywhere up to 2.5 million subscribers (aka 3-4% of the ludicrous "77 million WWE Homes").
• It brought in only 667k subscribers, it needs 1.4 million subs (in USA) to break even.
• This number is higher because DirecTV and Dish have dropped WWE PPVs (only InDemand are left)
• More subscribers this year isn't looking good as 10-15% of subscribers are non-Americans, and WrestleMania (a main factor for buying it) has come and gone.
• The Network's EVP of Programming (Matt Singerman) was fired, and Chief Digital Exec Perkins Miller left for the NFL last week.
• If WWE can't convince more people to buy the Network they'll likely up the price (perhaps to $12.95/month) or put at least WrestleMania back on PPV.

Wrestlers are pissed
• WWE are keeping the Network money for themselves, whilst delaying having a talent meeting to explain to the wrestlers how they'll be paid for being on the Network. They were stiffed on last year's videogame royalties and haven't seen a Mania payoff.

I assumed the NFL picking up the former head of the network meant that it was a good product.. I guess just because its a good product doesnt mean it makes money

It's back to within the same ballpark of where it was before all the speculators jumped on last fall. It didn't lose value; it had an inflated, false value and is now back to where it should be. WWE is fine.

Oh sure. I'm eagerly awaiting the ways Daniel Bryan and JR can be publicly humiliated for their failings though.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/23/4133082/wwe-in-trouble-financially-hardly.html

i've been enjoying the WWE coverage on grantland and occasionally i've googled things shoemaker mentions but i still find a lot of it mystifying (tho really compelling). is there like a primer, or 101 coverage of WWE that u could recommend?

dunno if there is a "definitive" primer (i know there's some kind of wwe-produced encyclopedia but have no idea what it's possibly like). shoemaker's book is pretty good for newbies. it's been 10 years since i've read it so no idea how it holds up but i remember "the death of wcw" being pretty interesting and in-depth. jonathan snowden's "shooters" is more specialized--about legit "tough guys" that wrestled--but is worth checking out.

there were a few books with the title "pro wrestling hall of fame" that were worth it. one was "heroes & icons," one was "the heels," think there are one or two others i'm forgetting, and they're definitely full of shit to latch onto.

for week to week coverage, a lot of people like brandon stroud's columns on raw over at uproxx, which i'm not super familiar with but seem pretty accessible.

Not quite clear what you're looking for Mordy - do you want a primer on the current WWE output or a more general thing about the ins and outs of pro-wrestling and how it works?

WWE hot-streak stil going steady as of last night btw, really solid show aside from a few totally wtf sections (don't really understand why Bo Dallas gets lumbered with Kofi and Kane, I thought they wanted this guy to get over) but the opener was good fun (Cesaro will surely take the belt off Sheamus at the next PPV) and the two main events both delivered.

If you can't be bothered watching the whole thing, just check out The Shield / Evolution match. Predictably great, all the usual trademark high spots and bumps (Rollins is making the insane dives from unlikely places a monthly feature it seems) and none of them have gotten boring yet. Kudos to the old fellas for working so hard to make The Shield look great. Roman Reigns is surely less than a year away from a run with the belt now.

Not quite clear what you're looking for Mordy - do you want a primer on the current WWE output or a more general thing about the ins and outs of pro-wrestling and how it works?

yes to both? i started reading The Squared Circle last night and i'm finding it very enjoyable so far

particularly i'd love to read more about the meaning of daniel bryan. like i read this:

The story line1 that took Daniel Bryan from hapless NXT competitor to the winner of the WWE World Heavyweight Championship was a thing of beauty. It was a relentless uphill struggle from the unlikeliest minor league existence to the top of the heap. It kept fans not just guessing but actively railing in support of their hero, and it kept them in adamant disbelief that he would ever reach his goal. It was a story line that would have seemed feasible in the ’70s or ’80s, when simplistic morality plays were accepted as gospel, but not today, not in this modern era when fans know (or believe they know) a great deal about backstage happenings, and when they rate the product based on what could have happened rather than on what did.

The case of Daniel Bryan seemed to be evidence of both a new mode of crowd interaction and a new era for wrestling storytelling. Either through diabolical scheming or just blind luck, WWE told a story over the past seven months — or two years, or more, depending on how far back you want to reach — that transformed Bryan into the industry’s standard-bearer in the most compelling way possible. It blew people’s minds because so many assumed Bryan would never get there, and because everything fans knew about the WWE enterprise gave them reason to think that Bryan was doomed.

but i couldn't quite figure out why it was so unlikely that daniel bryan would "reach his goal" and what made his transformation so compelling. is it just that he looks like a hippie which is unlikely for such a macho organization?

1. he's second smallest on the wwe top star range (only rey rey is smaller) and vince still runs it, traditionally wanting big guy roid factory

2. he's not a great promo, even if he can do the occasional great one or interesting shit (hug it out for example)

3. bearded, hippie

4. indie guys, bar punk, traditionally havent gone over and up until last summer, cesaro was also said to be for the chop

5. put with kane traditionally not a winning strategy

6. already been fired once for choking out justin roberts

7. bar what people think may be happening backstage/noone knowing whats happening and whether it was the plan all along, the royal rumble and big show taking over yes! for survivor series make a pretty compelling argument that noone backstage gave a shit about what every fan wanted until the last minute

are mainstream fans also big hippie fans, or is this mostly internet smarks that were cheering for him winning?

also

If you can't be bothered watching the whole thing, just check out The Shield / Evolution match.

outside buying the program or sub'ing to the channel is there a way to check out a specific match like this one?

I think since the Raw after the 18 second Sheamus match going YES! crazy it was official that a general mix of every crowd was super into d-bry. All the anger management kane stuff, winning superstar of the year, the rock calling him goatface etc. all added to the mix. It makes no difference to 98% of his fans that he was roh world & pure champ at once.

my usual source of totally legality

Oh man, there's just too much to unpack with regard to the whole Daniel Bryan thing, as it's merely the most recent and probably most interesting example of a debate and a dichotomy that's been a part of pro wrestling forever, and some of the protagonists are whole other stories in themselves (HHH, Batista, Randy Orton, in particular). You've actually kind of hit the nail on the head with the hippie thing actually. In very broad brush strokes:

Looking right back through the history of the WWE / WWF / old WWWF all the way back to the dark ages of the 1960s and 70s when a guy called Bruno Sammartino was the top guy, the company has had a very clear preference for giving the spotlight to big guys who look like action heroes, inevitably at the expense of other wrestlers who were perceived to be more talented wrt athletic ability and in-ring smarts. These guys usually seemed to do better in territories based in the south of the USA, while the big hosses would do better up north.

As I say, this reputation has clung to the WWE in some form for donkeys years and it is now an inarguable and vital piece of wrestling lore Vince McMahon has a jones on for big guys and will give them exposure at the expense of more "deserving" or "talented" individuals.

At various points throughout history, smaller more athletic guys have made it to the top of the WWE, but that doesn't change the fact that this always seems in some way to be going against the grain of the way the people in charge want to run the company. The most famous examples of this would be the mid-90s when Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels were the top guys despite being way smaller than any headliners had been in the WWE before. It is worth noting that during this period business for the company was in the toilet (not those guys' fault, actually, but in wrestling a headliner is always judged according to how much money they make and will always bear the brunt of the blame for bad business).

So that's POINT 1, I suppose - Vince McMahon likes big guys at the top, he's never been happy with giving small guys the spotlight.

The next point is related to the wider state of the wrestling industry in the last decade or so - since the decline of all meaningful competition and WWE's total monopoly of the market, the only other US companies that have been able to eke out a living are the ones who focus almost exclusively on niche aspects of the business, b/c playing the WWE at their own game is now impossible. Primarily this means focusing on providing superior WRESTLING (which WWE apparently, and perhaps justifiably, thinks its mainstream audience will find boring) as opposed to the broader ENTERTAINMENT variety show that the WWE tries to offer.

These smaller companies are collectively known as the independents, or the indies, and they cater for your hardcore wrestling fans, the sort who inhabit Squared Circle and the like. Most of their shows take place in gymnasiums, bingo halls and other small venues (at least that's the stereotype) attracting few but rabidly enthusiastic customers.

The independents are the domain of those who can't get a job with WWE - because they don't look right, they don't sound right, whatever - those that don't fit the stereotype of what WWE (aka Vince McMahon) thinks a pro-wrestler should look like. The flipside to that is that the independents are full of guys who are actually way better at their jobs than their WWE counterparts.

For many years, Daniel Bryan was the undisputed king of the indies. He wrestled everywhere, he worked with everybody and he always had the best match on every show he worked. Like, unbelievably talented, unbelievably consistent, and everyone thought he never had a shot at getting anywhere near the "big leagues" because he didn't look right, wasn't charismatic enough, etc. So he came to be adopted as the mascot and idol of the hardcore independent wrestling fans.

Of course he did eventually get his shot in the WWE (following in the wake of another independent legend who went on to become maybe the biggest star of the decade so far, CM Punk) and was pretty much evidently the best thing going from day one. And he has also pretty evidently had to overcome a degree of antipathy from the WWE higher-ups, who couldn't have made it more clear, on numerous occasions and in a variety of ways, that they didn't really want to make this guy a star if they could possibly avoid it. Some people in the WWE do nothing to deserve their exposure, but because someone backstage likes them they get chance after to chance to connect with the crowd. Bryan has basically had to work with what he's been given from day one, and not only has he made it work, but he's made it work to such an extent that he's now the most popular wrestler in the company (and possibly the world, at the moment).

There's way more detail to be gone into as to why the last 4 years or so have been such a crazy series of ups and downs for the guy, with the last 2 years in particular being a bit of a rollercoaster, but this post is already too long.

In summary:

- Daniel Bryan is short and odd-looking, but proved on the independent scene that he was the best wrestler going

- Vince McMahon HATES, and always has hated, giving the spotlight to people that don't look like action movie heroes, and that goes double for guys from the indies

- Daniel Bryan spent 10 years establishing his reputation and becoming the patron saint of hardcore wrestling fans

- when he finally did come to WWE, Daniel Bryan had to overcome a fair amount of bullshit in order to become a top guy, which actually enabled all of the hardcore fans (who might have deserted him had it all happened too easily) to stick it out in his corner, holding him up as a shining example of the hypocrisies and injustices of the system

- through the magic of the internet (which is a whole other conversation to have wrt this situation) the wider mainstream audience have become aware of this situation to such a point that the WWE were forced to make "Daniel Bryan is being held back by malevolent political forces" the whole thrust of his storyline.

- Daniel Bryan is now arguably the most popular wrestler in the world, bridging the gap between the hardcore fans and the mainstream audience. He is also still the best in-ring worker in the business, has a catchphrase, sells merchandise and is basically approaching the platonic ideal of what many people think a top wrestler should be.

- last month he got his biggest opportunity on the biggest show of the year, winning the title and beating 3 of the top guys of the last decade in the process (including HHH, which is pretty big news for historical reasons).

For the fans that have followed him for many years, I suppose this is the wrestling equivalent of a beloved local band that you first saw playing in a shitty bar in front of 30 people finally going number one and headlining a major festival without compromising any of their integrity. A feel good story for the ages, then.

Shit sorry, that was long and I still haven't started to cover why this is being treated as such a big deal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsX1ATcyQxU

this in-storyline promo video for WM was good

slso provides some evidence that

- he was pretty normall-looking til he grew that stupid fuckin beard (and I guess he's kind of bloated and squat looking these days cos he's bulked up a ton)
- he works a style that will destroy his body and mind

feel like w/ that beard he should be coming out to a bon iver song

- he works a style that will destroy his body and mind

Yeah this doesn't seem to be spoken about too much (though I'm sure Bryan himself is more than alive to the potential dangers) but modelling your whole in-ring steez to form part of the Dynamite Kid --> Chris Benoit lineage is kind of questionable given how those two ended up, no matter how entertaining that style might be.

- Vince McMahon HATES, and always has hated, giving the spotlight to people that don't look like action movie heroes, and that goes double for guys from the indies

idk if this is true anymore. of course he did bring in the radicalz/jericho/rey and made stars of them all without it ever really being superhero types. on top of that, he has always loved a big big fatty - yr mabels, bossmans, yokos, kishis, etc.

also ive always wondered how much influence brisco has. he is notorious for his talent spotting, especially from amateur wrestling but i guess once someone has been spotted and signed he is in vince's hands and gets told to do 6 moves.

also always wondered how much of an influence monsoon had. books need to be written about vinces inner circle types from the past 30 years.

Yeah this doesn't seem to be spoken about too much (though I'm sure Bryan himself is more than alive to the potential dangers) but modelling your whole in-ring steez to form part of the Dynamite Kid --> Chris Benoit lineage is kind of questionable given how those two ended up, no matter how entertaining that style might be.

― Windsor Davies, Monday, June 2, 2014 7:24 PM (59 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there has been a lot of talk about him changing his style for a while. i remember the austin podcast just after his concussion last year and how he needs to cut out the dropkick where he lands on his back&head.

Yeah yeah I know there's a lot more nuance to Vince's position wrt to bigger guys these days but I did say I was painting with broad brush strokes. fwiw I still think it's essentially a truism to say that he'd much rather push a big guy than a small one, irrespective of talent. The experiments tend to fail horribly but they still happen - Khali and Kozlov weren't that long ago. Should be interesting to see what happens with Rusev.

Anyway, the superhero thing of course isnt true across the board, but in the context of Bryan's ascent I do think the point about "look" is a vital one - Orton and Batista both representing different aspects of the vision of how WWE stars should look.

The Radicalz thing is a fair point but then how much choice did he really have? WWF's midcard was non-existent by the time those guys tipped up. Big fattys I lump in with the wider point about look though - they were still essentially just comic-book characters, the sort of guys that could look enticing on a poster opposite Hulk Hogan.

To be clear, I'm well aware that the smaller guys get their chances these days, I'm just talking really about the readiness of WWE to push the big guys, relative to how hard the smaller ones have to work to get their shot

it's weird cos by this time last year Bryan was at this unexpected point where he was winning 80% of his matches clean and if it was against a bigger guy he'd just do it via sneaky tehcnical superiority rollup pin, and it was like wow he is Bret Hart now, he is actually at the top of the protected booking mountain

then by like two months later he was doing ultimate warrior comebacks and winning 90% of his matches clean by knocking everyone from Cena downwards unconscious with a knee smash while screaming

like even if they never intended for him to be champion, at some point he clearly overtook Sheamus as the second most protected guy on the roster, at 5'8

Hmmm maybe, he's definitely rocketed up the pecking order in the last 12 months, even by the end of last year that was obvious.

I didnt really watch the TV stuff enough last year to keep up, but on PPV I certainly wouldn't say he's been noticeably heavily protected though - he actually lost pretty consistently on PPV for the year from WM29 through to WM30.

Admittedly there were important exceptions at Summerslam and Survivor Series and he's now one of the guys who is always allowed to look competitive with everyone, but still feels like he's been taking quite frequent losses on the main shows.

Sorry, that looks like I'm one of the crybabys that thinks he should be winning every match every time he goes out there, of course I don't think that. I think he's been used pretty spectacularly well for a long time now. Just arguing the point for argument's sake really

pffft when hes fit he should get like a 2 year long title run never losing. noone else is actually ready yet, reigns still cant cut a promo or do a singles match, cesaro secretly doesnt have a character, wyatt cant beat a cena i guess and everyone and their dog is bored to fuck of cena, orton, sheamus etc. - it would build up the person he does win it at wm32 to be p damn important too.

should i attend this event? http://www.2300arena.com/event/details/wrestling-with-disaster-2014-june-14/

(sorry, not real WWE i don't think, but real famous venue!)

you might as well hit up the ecw arena. i live in philly and always forget the damn thing still exists

what's the deal w/ john cena? is he a "face" that fans are just tired of / maybe represents older WWE pre-reality era? do most fans like or dislike him?

It's split between the kids that worship him and the marks who love to hate him.

the snarky crowd have loved to hate him since 2006 (think about one night stand 2006) and it most probably peaked in 2011 with the miz at wm and the punk stuff etc. but afaic, if you can get over the occasional boring superhero promo or awful comedy segment, he's like the 6th best wrestler on wwe.*

*sure hes no technician but hes like hogan, who could ramp up that big fight feel into something terrific. and unlike hogan, he can hang with anyone, an umaga, a bryan or punk, a luke harper, a cesaro or mark henry etc. and not just other powerhouses/fat guys.

There's nothing really wrong with Cena, but he's stale after being on top with the same character for so long. Nobody was staler than HHH with his evil manipulator character from 1999-2006 but once he reformed DX and wasn't fighting for the title on every PPV he became interesting again. Now it's seven years later and he's playing yet another character and suddenly he's wrestling in main events against all the top babyfaces (Shield, Bryan) and even the snarks are into him again. It also helped a lot that he wasn't a regular in-ring competitor from 2010 onward.

So basically Cena needs some combination of a) a new character (which doesn't mean he needs to turn heel), b) fresh matches against people he hasn't beaten 100X already, c) time away from the ring. In the ring, he always tries hard and has chemistry with just about any style of opponent, that's a big reason he's been the top guy for so long.

He's basically irreplaceable for them outside the ring is the thing. Like, maybe in an ideal world you could ask for more from your top star in the ring or on the mic, but he's such an incredible PR guy for the company, absolutely works his ass off to do all the public appearances / ambassadorships / Be A Star things, he's amiable and likeable, a model professional (I think? occasionally you hear some shit about him but it never seems to stick), a fantastic positive role model for children etc. etc. There's a reason the guy always wins and is always the main-event, it's not just bloody-mindedness on WWE's part.

to add to that- he said on austins podcast that hes been going to mandarin classes to do chinese pr, to add to that. for a guy who seemingly works 24 hours a day for the company, still films total divas, also does so many charity gigs and has to work out a ton, for him to be at the forefront of cracking china is fucking mental. ok the smarky fans dont like him sometimes but you cant really get a more perfect face of the company. austin and rock combined didnt do that much.

i'm really liking NXT

whos good/whats happening?

i watched one like a month ago with just shitty squash matches and wasnt too impressed.

well i just watched the most recent episode. i thought the title fight was kinda blah. i've been enjoying the women's matches - charlotte (ric flair's daughter) is NXT women's champion. she won last week to replace Paige. this week she fought Bayley who has some kind of loltastic hello kitty fangirl shtick. the aiden english guy is hilarious. um, also like jason jordan who is in a tag team w/ tye dillinger. i also love the fact that the show is only an hour long. i don't have time for these 3 hour RAW events. there's also this that makes a better case than i ever could: http://uproxx.com/sports/2014/06/the-wrestling-hipster-5-reasons-watching-nxt-makes-you-better-than-other-wrestling-fans/

I can't watch 3 hours of Raw either. Thankfully, the 90 minute Hulu version covers all the salient bits.

ok, new question. i get that NXT is the up-and-coming talents show. what's the difference between smackdown + raw? do they showcase different characters or have different kinds of storylines?

They used to be treated as entirely separate brands with their own rosters and titles but that stopped making sense years ago. These days I think Smackdown is just the B-show? Little of importance ever happens there now, but there are occasionally still matches worth checking out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOMUFfIQfdE

lol I kinda like this guy but he's got lower-card comic relief act written all over him.

Incidentally, this had me in stitches in last night, I must have missed it the first time. Love a Dusty Rhodes impersonation.

http://m.webn.com/media/play/dusty-rhodes-looking-for-the-4-22926742/

i had a little RAW party tnite at my place and invited some friends over to watch. stuff i liked from tnite's raw:

1. russian dude taunting obama by comparing his workout video to putin doing tae kwon do and riding horses (felt like kinda subversive having the heel malign the president + thereby earning sympathy for him w/ the crowd?)
2. bo-lieve. i find that guy hilarious. i'd like to see him fight cena in some kind of bizarroworld match
3. alicia fox forcefeeding her buddy popcorn (tho i wonder how often they can go back to the fox losing a match and then throwing a tantrum well before it gets tired)
4. rollins new clean-cut corporate look (still w/ double hair coloring)
5. bray wyatt beating up cena in the ambrose/reigns/cena v. wyatt family fight

did not like cesaro v rob van dam - boring. or sheamus v bad news barrett. tho i did find it interesting that the barret/sheamus fight had a kinda english/irish subtext to it - esp when barrett mocked sheamus' accent. do they play that up at all? i don't get the whole goldust thing. swagger v. marella (i don't even remember this one at all).

sorry, i don't know the protocol for this so... spoilers?

i think spoilers are fine unless its like wrestlemania or something massive. half the fun in wrestling these days is the stories from backstage, speculating about future storylines etc. so this weeks raw the day after is fine imo. i cant remember the last time a raw was so spectacular you'd have to put spoiler tags on it. the rock as the wm guest host? the jericho trolling vignettes?

reading Abdullah the Butcher's wiki page:

An amateur martial artist, Shreve also has knowledge of judo and karate, often including this knowledge in his professional wrestling matches. This knowledge was mainly displayed by him using judo style throws, and karate chops.

As part of his training regime he used to eat raw chickens with the feathers still attached.

raw chickens?????

also lol when was fat abby a judo martial artist? he was the guy who sat on you and stabbed himself in the face with a fork

WWE has released ELEVEN people today: Jinder Mahal, Drew McIntyre, Aksana, Curt Hawkins, Teddy Long, Camacho, Brodus Clay, Marc Harris (referee), Yoshi Tatsu, Evan Bourne and...JTG.
The real streak has been broken. 7 years, 28 days.

https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/l/t1.0-9/p720x720/10338251_805985379421065_4432100246754960366_n.png

also poor teddy long, no more playa play tag team matches

shoulda been Kofi

killing time until the football, i thought id pick a random show ive never seen: halloween havoc 93

so far tony schiavone have turned into a demon to scare children who said the main event isnt at all scary, jesse ventura made a joke about being a creepy gynocologist and the shockmaster got a maaaaaassive pop, a "whoop there it is" chant and pinned booker t clean.*

*no really, the shockmaster was OVER i guess.

Haha I watched the Shockmaster debut again last week, it just never gets old. Flair's "Oh God!" makes it

some stuff i liked from NXT this week:
1. Bo Dallas dressing up in a mask to sneak back into NXT. Half the crowd chanting "you can't fool us," the other half chanting, "yes he can," and then bo shouting from under his mask, "I'm not Bo Dallas! I'm not Bo Dallas!"
2. Adrian Neville, esp his red arrow finish - wow! It's at 1:40 in the video. esp the bounce and then the cover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=31tBldYA-_g

3. the first appearance of Simon Gotch. i don't know a lot about him. just that he's an indie guy new to WWE and his shtick is an old-timey strongman. apparently him and aiden english are going to form a tag team called the Vaudevillains (!!!)

also rumor is that kevin steen is coming to WWE, so i went to watch one of his videos -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-m9UW4lTNk

the insane ladder package piledriver is at 7:40. crowd chanting, "please don't die, please don't die."

Steen is an old one. He's talented in ring, he can cut a nice promo but he's obviously not in great shape (rumour was his knees are p shot) and next to most of the wwe roster he looks like a schlub. Most I'd presume you can hope for, if he makes it past Chris Hero stage, is tag teaming with Generico again or tormenting midcarders and then easy fodder for a high card 'not cena or bryan' babyface? idk

otoh if he has a kevin steen zoo enthusiast midcard face gimmick he could be really fun to have on tv.

odd* one not old

Vaudevillains sounds awesome.

Anything happening with the SAWFT guys?

yeah i think one of them is injured and the other one by himself is so boring that i recognize the name but can't remember anything else about his act

i've heard ppl say about steen that a lot of what makes him wonderful is the extremely punishing ringwork he does - but that the WWE will probably not let him do most of it bc of risk of injury/death

http://i.imgur.com/lFrM0xE.jpg

i've only seen this one picture of them but i can already get on board with this gimmick, these guys look like they should be great fun

re: SAWFT: enzo amore is coming back within the next couple NXT episodes. about time, big cass doesn't really work solo

seth rollins looks like he just stepped out of a pool of garbage

lol bad news barrett just made a http://images.chron.com/blogs/askacat/hatcat.JPG joke

what does that fucking cat mean? ive needed to know for years.

not seen anything since before payback but the internet seems to think ambrose could legit be a face superstar? this makes me so happy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n47fv1wAqw

He certainly picks up an interesting angle for this promo - "Scumbag Dean Ambrose being a bad figurehead for the company, potentially getting near the title scene" would be a decent progression for the HHH / Stephanie authority angle, given that there's no way they'll take a step back any time soon. Besides, they should strike while the iron is hot on Ambrose and Reigns - since Rollins turned they've been getting real good pops

i love scumbag dean ambrose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SVWTyA0lRt0

the pop for ambrose at mitb was the best

i heard raw last night was really good - i missed it though bc i'm working at a demo site all week away from home :(

also this is amazing <3 lana 4eva:
http://instagram.com/p/p4_d0fhK6l/

im only half way through mitb so maybe a polite ask for no spoilers for the last half of it/raw?

yeah, np. that's why i haven't really discussed anything from it yet.

Raw wuz good this week. MITB, I wasn't convinced.

MITB was weird because instead of a big finish to multiple story lines it was the big start of several. That never is as satisfying because the endings were only to opening scene of a story. Raw benefitted from telling the first chapter of the stories set up at MITB.

Also the conclusion was rough- understandable but barely set up and really anticlimactic

a hoy hoy plz tell me when you're caught up

watched mitb, not raw but im most prob not gonna get around to it anyway and just read a recap, so go for it. cheers for waiting though

the pop for ambrose at mitb was the best

― a hoy hoy,

Yeah, Ambrose's return at the end of the match was the best part of the PPV, the heat was off the charts and way better than the pops any of the so-called main eventers got. The MITB briefcase is like what the IC title used to be, and Ambrose and Rollins are like Rock and HHH in '98, killing it in the upper midcard and arguably outshining the main event storylines. If the WWE doesn't mess this up then they'll have two huge stars on their hands.

also cena as new and 'the great champ ever' (as thought by michael cole) is lolz. way to pick up the ball w/ cesaro, wyatt or reigns

woulda been silly to hotshot it onto any of those guys now considering the champ is getting fed to brock at summerslam

a few questions:

1. what's the deal w/ kane? in kayfabe universe is he supposed to actually be a demon? or he is just, ya know, "demonic"?

2. are the two bella sisters really each dating bryan + cena? is that as bizarre as it sounds to me?

3. is it just me or can roman reigns only do two moves - a glorified [superman] punch, and a glorified clothesline (okay maybe spear isn't exactly a clothesline but pretty close right)? and if this is true, how can he possibly be champion?

1. Kane's wikipedia biography is probably like reading the wiki of a marvel character where you get three paragraphs in and start becoming embarrassed at all the stupid shit they've pulled; he basically alternates between self-aware comedy character and unconvincing I AM A DEMON AGAIN heel turns at this stage. There is probably a deliberate omission as to whether he was really ever meant to have been burned by a fire set by the Undertaker, when he was evil, or that he drunkenly killed a woman while driving back from a party in college

2. Yeah, Brie and Bryan are married though

3. Yeah basically; I think they see him being there but are smart enough to realise he's not ready so just try and build crowd interest and have him carry himself like a star until the time's right. Also, maybe when he shaves and cuts off his hair he'll look like the Rock?

reigns also does that awkwardly set up* dropkick to the head while the opponent hangs off the mat.

kane is a demon cos he does paperwork for the authority iirc? idk i find it laughable any time anyone is scared of kane, he's seemingly not won a match in like 15 years, wouldn't be surprised if hornswaggles ever beaten him.

*the fucking 619ing of professional wrestling. i fucking hate those sheamus fists to the chest, the orton hanging ddt etc. etc. etc. etc.

re the bellas - is it just that the wrestling world is so incestuous that it's not weird to have the 2 top guys be dating sisters?

The Bellas disappeared off tv and maybe were even released... at the same time Cena went through a divorce... and then came back to be GIVEN THEIR OWN TV SHOW after Cena's divorce was cleared up and he announced he was shagging one of them like the day after.

its pretty weird but only because they are twin sisters. the wrestling world has always had the ladies date their way to the top, debra&steve, liz&savage/lex, kelly kelly&everyone, sunny&everyone etc. etc.

i thought the recent rob van dam v. adrian neville match on NXT was pretty great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghdb66JZDqM

http://network.yardbarker.com/all_sports/article_external/pennsylvania_prisoner_tries_to_sue_wwe_diva_natalya_for_250k_says_shes_an_evil_dominatrix/16810306?linksrc=story_article_yb_original_head_16810306

intercontinental battle royale conclusion :( i was so excited for a second

hot usos/wyatts match aside, this has been atrocious

i just saw lana's promo referencing the malaysia flight o_O but srsly her mocking america for their warmongering in iraq + afghanistan was fantastic

http://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/brie-bella-bitch-guy.gif?w=650

that khali/rusev fight was great as two big guys just hitting each other

can't help but feel that appearing incapable of ever winning may be damaging the Wyatt Family's brand

Yeah but you can replace Wyatt Family with any number of names from the past couple years- Ryback and Ziggler being the biggest two fuck ups. Cesaro also struggling. The idea of trading wins and everyone but Brock losing is stupid. Get behind [x], he loses a lot! I think they think it makes everyone look competitive, while it actually just makes everyone look shit.

Wyatts v. Usos 2/3 falls was awesome from the other night. Rusev v. Swags was fun too. After finding out the Shield match wasn't on till SummerSlam I stopped watching. Can't be bothered with a main event with Kane on it, a battle royale and a Chris bleeding Jericho return. Raw has Lesnar so I might watch that 2 minutes.

https://twitter.com/HeymanHustle/status/492074145102848000

i love paul heyman

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10570440_880868968609909_1071301118535599529_n.jpg

http://www.lux-limo.co.uk/limo-articles/black-funeral-car-limo-hire.jpg

rip big man

TNA has been cancelled because (they suck) they rehired Vince Russo. Its so beautiful.

Jim Cornette must have the biggest hard on right now.

thrilling opening to RAW tnite

http://www.wwe.com/videos/a-special-look-at-the-rivalry-between-john-cena-and-brock-lesnar-raw-aug-4-2014-26545252

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/08/money-in-the-bank/

long and unsurprising story short, wrestlers are treated like shit. this part was a bit of a surprise:

As attorney and academic Oliver Bateman writes, “most low-level performers and members of the female Diva division operate on short-term guaranteed contracts in the mid–five figures, out of which they must pay for their travel, food and lodging.”

must be tough to even get by day-to-day, never mind saving a bit of money for when your body inevitably gives up.

what's the scale for wrestlers? like i imagine john cena is doing okay for money. how about a guy like cesaro? or bray wyatt? do all members of the diva division operate on short-term contracts? (even paige and aj?)

i remember seeing a more detailed list at the time but this was a big leak earlier in the year http://www.tsmplug.com/richlist/wwe-wrestler-salaries/

internet got mad over steph and hunter paying themselves twice for office work & a performers salary

Its quite a bleak article but so mamy of its points are depressingly true. Shame he finds Vince so evil he gave Bobby Heenan throat cancer though, because shit like that devalues the legitimacy of the article.

I'm sure there are still many major issues outstanding wrt treatment of talent and so on but it does seem that some of this stuff is starting to change.

I can't recall precise details off the top of my head but as I understand it WWE has started putting into place various safeguards to ensure that their workers aren't totally broke / broken down husks once their careers are over - paying to put former employees through rehab, grants for released talent who want to pursue higher education in order to get themselves another job, taking an active hand in ensuring that new workers are sensible with their money, putting the Wellness Policy in place to prevent steroid abuse etc.

They've also actively banned a number of the dangerous spots that the article flags up (blading, piledrivers, unprotected chair shots) to the extent that it's now increasingly rare to see any of those things happen. Even when it does, it would seem to be the workers taking it upon themselves to do that shit - Jericho told a good anecdote recently on someone's podcast about a match he had with Batista when Big Dave cut himself open and apparently Vince went totally apeshit about it, tried to fine everyone involved a pretty hefty sum (six figures for both Batista and Jericho) and Batista took the hit for the team because it had been his call to do it.

Not saying that everything is rosy for WWE workers by any stretch of the imagination and I'm sure much more could be done to help them out and protect them, but the article's thrust seems to be that up until a decade or so ago things were real bad, and here's a list of all the people from the business a decade or more ago who suffered horrific shit as a result.

Of course there are still recent examples of people who are pretty much broken by the time they get out of the industry (is it Edge who can basically never take a bump again if he wants to keep all his motor functions intact?) but this again would seem to be on the wrestlers themselves to a certain extent. Randy Orton is a good example of a guy who's deliberately developed a style and moveset designed to be easy on his body with longevity in mind.

So yeah, there is no doubt that wrestling is still a dirty fucking business that chews people up and spits them right out again, but this article isn't especially evenhanded.

Cracking post. I mean a lot of stuff still needs to be worked out, Vince has too much past to be anything other than a con man etc. but they've made some incredible strides over the past ten years. Write a paragraph about how piledrivers end careers? Well there have only been three uses of them in the past 2 years, only been done by veterans (Kane, Punk & Undertaker) and been such a rarity that everyone has noticed and made a big deal out of them. Dynamite Kid got left without a doctor 25 years ago? Well matches now stop for the ring side doctor to check on someone on a nearly weekly basis. Chair-shots haven't existed in the past five years, bar Taker giving one to Hunter three years ago.

Sure they still need a union. All pro wrestlers do. What about the TNA guys on minimum wage still expected to pay travel & lodgings? God knows what some indie guys have to deal with then. There needs to be a wrestlers union. There always should have been. More strides have been made in that regard in the past 10 years (see examples in Windsor's post) and the way Jarrett's* promotion is looking, it wouldn't surprise me if a hook like that would be something he does to make them an attractive alternative. The promoters will have the cards at all levels until it can happen.

*Unfortunately its still Jarrett, who has been raised about as carny as wrestling promoters can be.

http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/2014/08/wwe-and-2k-confirmed-over-40-wrestlers-for-wwe-2k15/

are these wwe 2k games ever good?

i had the one with punk on the cover and it was supposed to be the best thing ever. i found it really dull & contrived. it had a storyline mode where you relived the attitude era, down to having to hit a guy w/ a chair in a match if it happened in 1997 etc.

my picks for tnite (based on what i want to happen, not on what i think is most likely to happen):

Lesnar + Heyman beat Cena
Wyatt beats Jericho
McMahon beats Brie
Rusev beats Swagger
Paige beats AJ
Orton beats Reigns
Dolph beats the Miz
Ambrose beats Rollins

probably won't watch tonight, gonna get my wrestling fill by watching this on repeat instead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHAv0Dhka84

well i thought that was all totally great

great show.

Nothing was bad, but nothing was great either. How many more PPV matches can they get out of Rollins/Ambrose? Hopefully the heat for this feud doesn't die before WWE gets around to booking a proper blowoff. I'm getting tired of all these non-matches and screwy finishes.

does Lesnar have much of a record for injuring people? (I remember him powerbombing Bob Holly onto his head.) He has an aura of violence to him that not many in American wrestling have ever had (Vader is the only real comparison that comes to mind) but it kinda seems that a lot of that comes from him legit tossing people around with not much concern for how they land.

vince supposedly drove in the ambulance w/ undertaker?

WWE.com can confirm that, following last's night historic match with Brock Lesnar, The Undertaker was immediately taken to Ochsner Medical Center. After a CT scan and other medical testing, he was diagnosed with a severe concussion and was kept overnight for further evaluation. He was discharged early Monday afternoon.

Brock almost killed himself in doing a moonsault in a Wrestlemania match with Angle

Sorry, a shooting star press. I just watched it again for the cringing laughter it brings.

aw ziggler pointing at the WWE universe and cheering, "you did that," "you did that"

Between the Brock squash and the breezeblocks, that was a bloody fun two nights of wrestling.

Despite suffering what was deemed to be extensive head and spine trauma after being Curb Stomped through a pile of cinder blocks by Seth Rollins on Raw, Dean Ambrose has not only refused treatment but is reportedly missing after escaping WWE medical personnel altogether.

...

"At the time of bringing him backstage, he was responsive and was refusing transport to a local medical facility for further evaluation," said Amann. "He had removed the straps and surgical collar, said he refused to go and we haven't seen him since."

lol

in unrelated news, shooting for the WWE studios film Lockdown has begun

would wear: http://shop.wwe.com/Stephanie-McMahon-%22Steph-Steph-Steph%22-Authentic-T-Shirt/W08149,default,pd.html?dwvar_W08149_color=Maroon&start=4&cgid=New

Go for it! I keep getting tempted by a Wyatt trucker hat:

http://shop.wwe.com/Wyatt-Family-Trucker-Hat/W07693,default,pd.html?dwvar_W07693_color=No%20Color&start=94&cgid=New

loved this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reJblljv5p4

http://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/dean-ambrose-what.gif?w=650

follow dean ambrose around for 24 hours and i think you'd be able to compile a few hundred entries for dirt bag style

Ambrose vs Rollins on RAW this week -- wow. Why didn't they book that match for the PPV?

former WWE Creative member Andrew Goldstein was on Straight Shoot (podcast) this week and he claimed it was bc of the Network. that i guess they want ppl to be more invested in watching the network all the time and not so ppv dependent, so they're using the PPV to set up stories + matches that then get completed on RAW. idk if that makes a lot of sense to me, but ok.

I think that logic is reversed -- the PPV's are shown live on the network, and they're selling the network largely based on the value of getting all the PPV's when you sign up. RAW isn't shown live on the network, and there's a four week delay before the episodes are uploaded.

It's not like it's the first time they ran a match for free on TV the day after trying to get people to pay for it on PPV, but maybe we're in for a lot more of this. When people pay $40 for a PPV you're really screwing them over if you have a rematch on TV the next day, but now they're paying only $10 for the PPV plus everything else on the network.

my personal guess is that they wanted to give rollins + ambrose more (they're both super talented in the ring, on the mic, and they needed to give ambrose a send-off) but they didn't have time during the PPV to do a full thing. so they did some the night before and wrapped it up the next day. it was a pretty packed summerslam.

Sure, but the PPV is supposed to have the longer and better matches -- that's what people expect and it's why they're willing to pay to see those matches.

how amazing would it be if wyatt beats cena tnite

So I'm out of the loop right now as my internets is down. I only get scraps of information, but is Dean Ambrose dead?

Rollins curb stomped him into a pile of concrete. Supposedly he escaped from the ambulance taking him to the hospital and has not been heard from since.

i'm no doctor but imo he should really get that crushed skull seen to

i heard that ambrose is currently hiding inside corporate kane waiting to strike

http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/2014/08/paul-heyman-called-out-god-in-his-als-ice-bucket-challenge-video/

Just catching up with Raw and man are the Bella's horrible actresses. I get the storyline, but ditch the long-ass promos. They suck so bad.

Ambrose is busy bandaging up his skull with the skin of wolves he fought in the desert, roaming endlessly until he finds his way back to a raw where he can find and kill seth rollins

Cheers for that, love the idea of Ambrose turning savage and roaming 'merica with a crushed skull looking all Cray Cray!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rqAOMnTDwQw

http://rumblemetrics.blogspot.co.uk/

Been dipping in and out of these as a bit of light bedtime reading and they are bringing me improbable amounts of joy.

"the last bit was good even if at first I was like "oh, these guys; alright I guess." I liked Angle/Benoit *a lot* and Triple H/Freakzilla was not without its odd pleasures and oh yeah Torrie Wilson and Dawn Marrie wrestled because *Dawn Marrie married Torrie Wilson's father Al and fucked him to death* so on the whole this was a solid show

So I’ve barely touched the whole Network thing since like March (actually forgot I had it for a while there) but I’m on holiday at the moment, still waiting for the new term to start, so I’ve finally gone back and started watching some stuff. This has all been pretty revelatory for me, cause beyond a certain point (end of ’99, start of 2000 maybe) I’ve always read way more about wrestling than I’ve ever bothered to watch, aside from a few isolated shows and matches. But boy, there’s some pretty fucking cool shit available on this service.

I just finished watching Great American Bash ’92, chosen pretty much at random because a tag team tournament sounded like super fun, although tbh as it turned out most of the tag team stuff on this show just sort of floated by without leaving very much impression. But man, Sting - Vader was something else!

One of the things I liked most was the way the crowd sounded, particularly when the little Stingers were getting riled up a bit - dunno if it was the acoustics or the way it was mic’ed or what, but I found it highly evocative, reminded me of barely remembered swimming galas in provincial swimming baths, those ones where the seats were all up in the rafters and the noise didn’t quite travel right. struck quite an emotional chord with me. also had the effect of making these guys seem less like internationally-renowned film-star celebrity demigods, more like slightly amateurish pantomime performers or children’s entertainers being recorded on VCR with kids sitting at the front and the parents standing at the back - Sting playing to the adoring screams of his pre-pubescent acolytes, Vader mugging to the hissing and the roars of the mob.

Best bit was maybe the test of strength spot where Vader and Harley Race try to goad Sting into locking up and Sting keeps looking to all the kids in the audience for help in deciding what to do, before eventually going for it (NO STING YOU IDIOT WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOULL NEVER BEAT THIS GUY THAT WAY) and losing, only for consternation to turn to delight as HA HA! Trickster Hero Sting jabs the eye of the Monster and draws delighted laughter from the multitude, only for delight to turn back to consternation as Vader immediately bodychecks him, killing the momentum and reminding all the little kiddies out there that this ain’t no fucking pantomime and there ain’t gonna be no happy ending, and no song and dance number to follow neither.

I’m rambling now but something about all this just feels so different to the wrestling I’ve been used to watching in my lifetime. Less like television performers playing a role or video game characters wearing down the opponent’s health bar. As I say, more like a pantomime; two dancing bears being sent out before a crowd of pissed-up parents and excitable infants to provide some good wholesome Sunday night entertainment for all the family before moving onto the next town and doing it all again. I realise that this is what pro-wrestling always was and still is, but this felt rawer, somehow, then a lot of the stuff I’ve watched before. Anyway, I loved it.

Match itself was fucking tight, especially interesting to watch in the context of the recent Lesnar / Cena monster vs champ ding-dong. Sting’s comeback spots were really well timed. They didn’t overdo it, gave Sting just enough to make you believe that there could be an outside chance while always being pretty much up-front about the fact that Vader had got this one in the bag. Not like the first Cena / Lesnar match from Extreme Rules where they barely had Cena land a punch throughout the entire match, making Lesnar look like a total punk when he got pinned out of nowhere to finish. Another little spot I really enjoyed here was when Vader went for a massive slam and Sting had started to wriggle out just as he got planted, meaning that to escape the pinfall he didn’t have to actually throw massive fucking Van Vader off of him but could just use the momentum of the slam to roll through and out of the pin. It’s the little things that make the difference, especially when the commentators are allowed to draw attention to them.

Anyway, those were some of my thoughts, very much looking forward to watching their Starrcade match tomorrow night now. Anyone else been enjoying the network recently?

If you didn't see it before, I really enjoyed Clash 19, which was the earlier rounds of that tag tournament a bit before the PPV. It has Joe and Dean Malenko representing 'Europe' because they're fake-Hungarian, and Gordy and Williams massacring an Australian father-son jobber tag team on the way to a great match with the Steiners in the main.

I really enjoyed here was when Vader went for a massive slam and Sting had started to wriggle out just as he got planted, meaning that to escape the pinfall he didn’t have to actually throw massive fucking Van Vader off of him but could just use the momentum of the slam to roll through and out of the pin. It’s the little things that make the difference, especially when the commentators are allowed to draw attention to them.

The Starrcade Vader-Sting is great too, has a lot of of similar well-executed small details like Vader punching himself out, subtly fucking up the execution of his moves and delaying the pin etc

On a semi-related note, the Steiners vs Curtis Hughes and Vader at Clash 18 is an insane, insane power match I would never have known existed without the WWE network for just £6.01 per month

I recently watched the three Flair v. Steamboat title matches from '89. Stupidly good.

I really need to sit down for a Sting-Vader marathon one of these days. I think I've seen only one or two of their matches.

I’m rambling now but something about all this just feels so different to the wrestling I’ve been used to watching in my lifetime.

WWE has almost always been about the babyface superhero champion, they really have no idea how to do book monster heels. The best example I can think of would be Yokozuna. They could have done it with Brock's comeback in '12 but they didn't. Even during HHH's reign(s) of terror (2002-6), which was the only time they ever ran with a heel champion for an extended period, it was more in the style of Flair in the 80's (barely escaping with the title every night), he was never really dominant.

Not got round to Sting vs Vader from Starrcade yet, but I did rewatch a couple of my fav matches from the last few years yesterday afternoon to see how they held up, and man, I'll be amazed if I can ever find a better monster vs underdog match than Punk vs Lesnar from Summerslam 2013. I loved it at the time but I think watching Bryan beat Cena 30 minutes later kinda took some of the shine off. On a second viewing this just blew me away. the kimura / triangle choke / powerbomb / still triangle choke / elbows / running powerbomb reversal sequence was out of this world.

It was a great match, but Lesnar bumped like a madman for Punk and for me it took away some of the believability. Putting it another way, Punk went toe to toe with Lesnar and would have beat him if not for Heyman's interference, but now one year later, Cena gets literally no offense against Lesnar at the same PPV.

idk, i take the point, but if you look at the shots that Punk actually lands on Lesnar (going high to take him by surprise, lightning knee strikes to the head, low blows, biting) I think if anything it goes to show that Punk, the smaller man, knows how to box clever, while Cena, as a bigger guy who's not needed to fight dirty in years, didn't have any response.

gotta remember that Punk was just coming off the back of the longest title reign anyone had had since Hogan-times, and had also gone the distance with The Undertaker at WM, which in recent years had become a spot reserved for the likes of HBK, HHH and so on. I don't have a problem with him looking competitive in this match, he still gets the shit beaten out of him and loses in the end.

It was probably the importance placed on the Heyman interference that hurt it most

They had Lesnar need Heyman's help to beat HHH and Punk, then he had that weird chairshot-heavy non match with Show then at WM it was suddenly all I'm ending the streak clean btw

If only Taker had been a three stripe jiu-jitsu white belt :(

good match though yeah, fuck it

kenta is debuting on NXT this thursday (Takeover 2). also bayley v. charlotte and fatal 4way adrian neville, sami zayn, tyler breeze + tyson kidd. should be great!

the sign in hebrew says "mah," 4x which means 'what' in hebrew i lol'd

http://i58.tinypic.com/m9rre0.png

cac123ish 3 days ago
I've seen matches where the loser had to have their heads shaved. I was always hoping that Mongo or Jeff Jarrett would lose a match, Debra would have to have her head shaved. I would picture in my mind Debra having to sit in a chair in the middle of the ring and have her crown taken off her head, and have all her gorgeous blond hair shaved off and see her bald and running back to the dressing room crying and covering her bald head while her hair was being thrown out into the audience, and hearing the announcer saying, "Debra is about to lose her beautiful hair!!"

just cutting and pasting this Youtube comment from a Debra Marshall shoot interview for no real reason, thanks

slightly surprised no one at WCW thought to book that angle

btw it is nxt takeover 2 tnite and i highly recommend it. i think the championship four way between sami zayn, tyler breeze, adrian neville and tyson kidd will be really good. i think charlotte v. baylee for women's championship will be really good too. also they're debuting kenta and apparently another new NXT star so that'll be cool

all NXT eps are on hulu the next day, idk if they'll post the takeover too

yeah this should be quite fun.

maaan, checking the NXT roster, it really is about time they brought back the cruiserweight division - zayn, neville, kidd, kenta, devitt, justin gabriel, kalisto, sin cara, zack ryder.... etc. etc.

those guys could be smashing the undercard week-in week-out if anyone was at all inclined to let them do it.

lol Prince Albert has really had a very strange career, how long's he been doing this roving sportscaster bit?

<3 Renee Young a little bit.

they're really working hard to sell these two Ascension schmoes, but does anyone actually want to see these guys on the main show? one of them looks kinda like evil Matt Hardy. can't place who the other one reminds me of. Tomko maybe?

woooooo!

evil Matt Hardy and bigger evil Matt Hardy.

i'll be happy when they go to the main show. there are so many good tag teams in NXT (kalisto + sin cara, vaudevillians, enzo + amare) that are so much more entertaining to watch.

ascension have been the nxt tag champions forever tho

i dunno, i feel like that the one aspect of this NXT experiment that is a wee bit bullshitty is the tag division, although that might just be me being butthurt about how badly they've screwed up the tag division. in most other respects they've pillaged the indys pretty successfully but when you think that at various points over the last however many years they could've been going in for American Wolves, Motor City Machine Guns, the Beer Money Guys, the Briscoes, the Young Bucks etc. etc. etc. i can't help but think 'fuck those Ascension dudes'.

sorry that was all phrased terribly, trying to watch that squash match at the same time

basically ALL of the best tag teams since WGTT haven't gone near WWE and it fucking sucks and it's a bit weak that they try to sell that The Ascension or Amore and that other dude are as exciting as e.g. American Wolves

this is egregious bcuz they really have been signing all of the best talent up outside of the tag division, this was happening even before the current NXT format

yeah you'd know much better than me. i watched some of the tag stuff from chakira and loved it (like those slow motion dudes were hilarious, or the baseball mime) but NXT is generally much more interesting to me than RAW tag which, with the exception recently i guess of star+golddust, has been pretty boring imo.

enzo is hilarious tho. he's a great talker. you don't like that promo they just did w/ the poodle? i lol'd.

"i'll give you a bob"

sawft is admittedly dumb

ok yeah, these guys giving me a kind of alternate universe HBK / Kevin Nash vibe in that promo - little, colourful and obnoxious / big and laidback with ponytail, I actually don't mind it

this Sylvester dude is getting shaved, lol i love hair vs hair stips

so wait, did no one get shaved? well that is some bullshit.

would like to see tyler breeze fight fandango, would be fabulous

yeeeah KENTA squash these hosses

pretty dumb that they'd make such a song and dance over signing "major international sensation KENTA", introducing him as such, getting the fans chanting his name, only to have him 'reinvent' himself and change it to something totally lame and unmemorable within 30 seconds. thought this might've been the one they broke their own rule for

was it just me or did that bull dempsey jump from the ropes look totally ridiculous? omg he did it again. he can't reach him. it's embarrassing.

Bull Dempsey struck me as a less charismatic Rhino.

And they need to stop that diving headbutt. Too Benoit, and associated with a lot of his brain damage.

if they ever wanted to turn Bayley heel she could be loads of fun paired with Bo Dallas

Bayleyve!

the american wolves are really, really bad btw and wwe signing them is probably the wisest indie non-pillaging they've made

wwe NOT signing them rather

each to their own, i really enjoyed some of their ROH stuff a few years back. Had good matches with quite a few already signed guys (Bryan, Rollins, Steen, Zayn)

I've grown to really like Breeze.

i like all those other guys tbh, i'm just being a hater

(this show was a total blast btw)

i'm going to watch the nxt show lataz but just came to say lolz at signing the briscos (nothing like hiring people who are racist and homophobic to your multinational corporation) and the wolves (wrestlers still need to sell and not just drop people dangerously on their head). also iirc when the young bucks were close to being signed, they were such dicks backstage that they never got invited back, was dirtsheet buzz for a while etc. supposedly they really pissed off booker t and holla holla tag match teddy long.

is that one appalling superplex gif representative of Davey Richards' general work? I have never watched one of his matches because of it

http://i43.tinypic.com/2poyw6u.gif

I unironically enjoy the corny fake sport of pro wrestling and this is the dumbest shit I've ever seen

I have watched a lot of the ROH PPVs he was kinda on top for (10-12ish period) and yeaaaaaah... that gif is about right. He takes himself waaay too seriously, he makes Bret Hart look like a guy who knows its fake.

Fair fair fair, I was unaware of much of the backstage shenanigans wrt briscoes and young bucks, I was simply reeling off tag teams where I have watched and enjoyed a couple of matches that came recommended, I am not and never have been an avid fan of independent wrestling

its quite simple for me - generico gave up wrestling, so the indies are pointless now

the bucks might get signed btw, they buried the hatchet w/ booker t

Please tell me that Hideo Itami's gimmick isn't going to be "generic martial arts-loving Japanese guy".

giving away a scheduled 1 on 1 match on tv 6 days before it's due to air on PPV and having the face win clean is maybe the stupidest thing I can remember the WWE booking team doing in several decades worth of doing stupid shit on the regs. not necessarily very important or harmful in the long run, but wtf are these guys thinking

all the PPVs are now going at a fixed monthly rate on the Network, they figure that they're not gonna persuade anyone else to buy into that at this stage as all the likely customers have already got it so why worry about them right, now they're prioritizing TV ratings over non-Network PPV buys to try and draw more casual Raw viewers onto the Network? that's ridiculous and ill-thought out (and i should know cause it's a crap theory i just pulled straight out my ass) and i just do not get these people at all atm

apologies am tired, my posts are about as coherent as WWE's current creative direction

http://grantland.com/features/tna-professional-wrestling-dixie-carter-jeff-jarrett-wwe/

now they're prioritizing TV ratings over non-Network PPV buys to try and draw more casual Raw viewers onto the Network?

This sounds right. They booked RAW to have the important segments during the halftime of Monday Night Football!

this might also be the answer to the question of why monday raw after summerslam had a much better/longer ambrose/rollins fight than summerslam

yeah but how ass-backwards is that logic? inviting people to lay down a monthly sum in order to watch the precise fucking match that just aired for free on television (and a pretty average match it was too), when they already gave up the clean finish?

i don't get who they're pleasing here. if this was some parallel bizarro universe where they had interesting money matches up the wazoo and were in a position to throw some of them away on free tv in order to say "you've just seen and enjoyed this awesome showdown, well here's this other totally badass match you definitely don't wanna miss that's happening on the PPV" then I guess I could understand it. but they don't. surely ppl are just gonna think that there's absolutely no point plonking down a subscription fee if they get the PPV match given away 6 days ahead of time.

this also all sucks balls bcuz Reigns was supposedly "doing it for Ambrose" which completely cuts Ambrose's legs out from under him, as no one gives a shit about him getting his revenge on Rollins cause Reigns has just done it all for him.

eh, i shouldn't care about this and it may just be a particularly egregious one-off example of the booking team being fresh out of ideas of stuff to do in a 3 hour Raw, but i still think that no matter how the business model is changing it can't possibly be a good idea to devalue your PPV like this

Ambrose is so great that I think he can easily pick up where he left off with the Rollins feud. The clean finish to Reigns/Rollins makes no sense, definitely, but I don't think it'll hurt Ambrose.

I think the PPV's are going to be promoted as one-match shows now (except for Mania, RR, and Summerslam). For 40-50 dollars per show they had to at least attempt to book a solid card top to bottom, but now they figure that for 10 bucks, plus all the other content you get on the network, people will get their money's worth as long as the main event delivers.

personally my beef started when reigns got hit from behind with the chair so he didnt care about shield stuff or helping ambrose for like 4 months after until he had his skull crushed in and then thought maybe he should avenge his forgotten bud

sorry i forgot he had the more pressing issue of who can be a more boring scripted supposedly dramatic slow nothing promo with orton

reigns is the worst tbf

Kinda ready for him to be mercilessly turned on by the wwe universe

it doesn't help that he has that playground-looking looking superman punch and the spear spear spear, a move wwe has relied on too much and constantly cried wolf that it's ultra-devastating and exciting even though it has literally only ever looked good when Goldberg was doing it so absurdly hard his opponent's life was in danger

I'm jim cornette and that's m

it doesn't help that he's far and away the most boring former member of the shield.

he's already slowly being turned on online, give it a few months. i have the bad feeling when bryan comes back that they'll try to book reigns anyway and we'll get the same thing that happened this year

he seemed vicious in the shield, how could you not get behind him with the big survivor series & royal rumble performances and being the real tough motherfucker in the group? and then when they split, he... still couldn't work a match on his own, do more than 4 moves, cut a money promo.

i'm hoping ambrose gains 96/97 austin momentum, as he was ramping it up before he went to film his movie and fights brock at the royal rumble, only for bryan to come out #30 and fight brock at wm31. ambrose v bryan at summerslam or wm32. if bryans not fit, ambrose v brock with ambrose winning the title at wm31. and instead its gonna be reigns.

he will be good one day, but he needs ROCKY SUX chants or something.

So the Chicago Film Archives have been uploading a whole stack of 1950s matches featuring all sorts of big names in thoroughly watchable quality, and it's, erm, quite something...

It's totally alien basically, just completely different to anything you'd see today (and pretty boring for the most part tbh) but it definitely has its moments. For example, check out the spot at around 30 mins in on this video, Buddy Rogers dummying out of running the ropes and strutting off around the ring - very cool to see the origins of the sort of gimmicky stuff that would come later in the midst of this dirge of headlocks and rope-breaks

shit, link would be good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqIHV0m29FU

Watching now.

i finally caught up on takeover and this weeks nxt. when did tyson kidd become good? also the lucha dragons are my new favourite wrestlers

I'm really enjoying this Lou Thesz v. Buddy Rogers match. I don't find it boring at all.

Yeah? I dunno, I think I'm more interested in it than actively enjoying it. I find 40 min+ matches a bit of a struggle with anyone other than my absolute favs though tbf

I love the psychology. I find most current matches too much about high spots and too little about storytelling through action.

Now I'm watching Verne Gagne versus Dick the Bruiser. This archive is amazing. Thanks so much!

Yeah I might spend a bit of time with this, try and work out what I'm missing. I'm one of those fans whose wrestling viewing and knowledge starts in about 1987, so the older slower paced stuff has never made too much sense to me. That said, I watched a Haystacks Calhoun match earlier and that was a joy - I went in expecting him to move like Mabel, but he was actually pretty mobile. Commentator was adding to the fun, doing a hilarious hillbilly accent imagining what haystacks might be saying to the opponent. As I said, thoroughly watchable

i've been reading Shooters and i really wish i could find some of the early matches they discuss online - i guess recordings of like gotch, farmer burns, ed lewis, etc don't really exist?

I've never seen any. But more and more stuff keeps popping up so keep searching now and again.

You might want to ease your way in with some of the early 80s WCCW and WCW stuff on the Network. The southern style hewed a lot closer to the old school until the early 90s, while the WWF got cartoony and over the top much earlier.

That said, this Gagne v Bruiser match is much more varied than the Thesz v. Rogers one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCMapMVXWG8

I stumbled across this a while back and really enjoyed it. The middle-aged women that seem to make up most of the front row are super into Thesz's dropkicks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cmzAhCWkV4

if you can track it down (there's some on youtube), i'd actually recommend some Memphis stuff, which is right at the balance of old school and cartoony

reigns gets emergency hernia surgey, missing night of champions:
http://www.wwe.com/shows/nightofchampions/2014/roman-reigns-breaking-news-26669136

hey, I wonder if that's why they had the match on Raw.

woo - loved this first match

http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/2014/09/brodus-clay-revealed-how-the-wwe-locker-room-dealt-with-darren-young-coming-out/

so I've started watching some of the WCCW stuff on WWE Network as EZ Snappin recommended, just finished the first episode. they seem to have intentionally started with an episode that sets up the very beginning of the Freebirds / Von Erich feud - the main story on the show is the arrival of Michael Hayes, who delivers a pretty fun promo trailing the appearance of Terry Gordy in a few weeks time.

The secondary story being that Kerry Von Erich has been put out of action by Great Kabuki who was reputedly trying to claim a $10000 bounty placed on the Von Erichs by Ric Flair, which I assume is gonna lead to the infamous Flair / Kerry Xmas match that kickstarts the Freebirds / Von Erich feud.

Best bit of the whole show is a taped interview where Flair answers the charges made against him and accepts Kerry Von Erich's challenge. Man I know it goes without saying but really it's not even funny how much better he was than every single other person involved in the show. What a great promo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EQ0qeccjrg

Hallelujah.

lol Kerry Von Erich was such a terrible promo

The Von Erichs all cut shitty promos.

https://twitter.com/theisb/status/516743482996977664

been digging monday night war mini-docs

Bit of a missed opportunity I felt. They had the chance to try and go somewhere a bit different with it in terms of format, or at least to go more in depth into particular stories, but it's been all the same old footage, all the same talking heads spouting the same revisionist history and received wisdom.

Joke's on me I suppose for entertaining the notion that by this stage they might have dropped (or at least amended slightly) the narrative of WWF = plucky underdog with exciting young talent and creative vision vs WCW as classless and incompetent new money behemoth full of over-the-hill traitors looking to put YOUR favourite WWF superstars and their families ON THE STREET!!!!!! but i suppose that ship sailed a long time ago.

I don't have internet in my new apartment so ive cancelled my subscription to the network, gotta say I've only really been missing the old school content and the old ppvs

i liked them but they're good for ppl like me who missed that era in wrestling and don't really know those characters. i just watched the mick foley episode and i had never even seen the footage from that cage match before so it was very educating. i do think the larger narratives about WCW v WWE are pretty silly, but as a jumping off point to do mini docs about particular performers and groups - i think it's working really well. had no idea about degeneration X either, so i liked that ep. and the next one i've got is the hart episode so i'm psyched to learn more about the screwjob.

also laughed at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwKTaOvhVdg

the MNW stuff depends on whether it has interesting archive footage, for me

the party-line shit ruins most of the WWF-centric stuff, absolutely no interest in watching a bunch of talking heads pretend that pretty much everything about DX wasn't awful cringey shit

hopefully they can manage to do a good one about Sting's 1996-1997 "run" and not somehow relate it back to themselves in any way

idk if they pretended DX wasn't cringey - lots of interviews w/ mcmahon going, "i think we maybe went too far," and other ppl talking about how uncomfortable they were w/ the new direction of the company. i like when HHH rode the tank over to WCW tho - that was cool :P

INCOMPETENT WCW OFFICIALS HAD USED UP ALL OF THE WRESTLING DATES ON STING'S CONTRACT AND HAD TO IMPROVISE IMPLAUSIBLE NON-WRESTLING SEGMENTS TO KEEP THE COMPANY'S FRANCHISE STAR VISIBLE

JEFF JARRETT LATER HELD THE WWF TO RANSOM BY SELFISHLY WINNING THE INTERCONTINENTAL TITLE AND EVERY SUBSEQUENT TITLE DEFENSE UNTIL THE END OF HIS CONTRACT, FORCING HEARTBROKEN WWF OFFICIALS TO HONOUR THE TENNESSEE NATIVE'S OUTRAGEOUS FINANCIAL DEMANDS

no c'mon, it's not that bad. and the docs give WCW + Bischoff a lot of credit. plus don't they own the Nitros now? so it wouldn't behoove them to trash their own programming.

i did think it was pretty dumb/LOL of Bischoff to tell ppl that Mankind was about to win the heavyweight championship on Nitro that night

yeah idk I didn't watch it but every time Triple H mentions it he always goes on about how much they were pushing the envelope and doing things that had never been done in the business before and it's like yeah you were just like humping stuff and holding up stuff that looks like dongs

i did cringe at every single "i'd rather be in chyna" sign

yeah they definitely cop to the fact that their own product was stale and that WCW had something hot for a while but they overplay the idea that WCW got successful because it used WWF guys, and make out that WCW poaching guys whose WWF contracts were up was somehow mean and ruthless but when WWF signed the Radicalz it was nobly giving them a real job away from the company that spurned them

also calling WCW a sports entertainment company and wheeling out that fucking "Vince, I'm in the RASSLIN business / that's nice Ted, I'm in the ENTERTAINMENT" business anecdote

u kno tho i don't remember who it was but i just watched an episode where they say that they poached a superstar from WCW bc 'turn about is fair play' or something like that, 'we could do the same thing.' i did get the impression that hiring foley tho was - idk noble - but that he wasn't being kept at WCW and obv it was a great move to give this guy a chance to make a name.

it's hard to ignore tho that WCW got successful partially using WWF guys when the huge NWO innovation was essentially packaging WWE guys as outsiders (lol_)

yeah I was just like Milhouse all crying "WHEN ARE THEY GONNA TALK ABOUT STIIIIING" during those bits tbh

so far i've only seen clips about Sting -- i gotta think they're saving his mini-doc for when they debut him or whatever they're planning on doing with him?

also i'm guessing the chris jericho ep will be heavily WCW too? or am i overestimating the amount of time he spent there?

think that will just be covered in the recent cruiserweight ep which was OK - Jericho was good in-ring but made to be unbelievably boring as a character from 96-8 then did all of his awesome wacky heel stuff in quite a condensed period from then til he left

this was an improbable late-game contender for funniest DX moment imo, the buildup to the triple threat match being that they would team to beat Cena no matter what and didn't care which one of them won:

http://youtu.be/t5x5F84qtTA?t=30s

next ep apparently is exclusively Jericho. Also the Goldberg ep prob heavily wcw

oh that's good, might watch a bit of the goldberg one now

They've all been bullshit. They called Goldberg a fucking Steve Austin copycat in the Stone Cold one. That the NWO was the only thing that WCW really did, up until the cruiserweights - and then the cruisers were treated like the real fucking #2 draw because they are wwehistorybait while the horseman, goldberg, the amazing tag teams, sting, luger, ddp etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. get ignored.

Its fascinating how WWE are doing their best to sort out their business, Joey Styles on WWE.com, Triple H on NXT duty, whoever is getting the big names back on side for the HoF (Triple H got Bruno back) - and yet they still do this shit. In fact, who the fuck is to blame with how atrocious the 'content' on the Network is? Countdown is bollocks, this is shit, they've only had two good documentaries (the Bryan and the Shield one) in six months, idk if anyone ever cared enough to watch the 4 year old Legends House... Would it really be that hard to idk do those legends roundtables again, or a Steve Austin talk show like his podcast or Wrestler A talks a bit about his 5 favourite matches with footage...

is there anything u can recommend for balance? in the bret hart ep shawn michaels says that WWF competed initially w/ WCW by focusing on younger, more athletic talent - and he claims that the actual wrestling was better on WCW. this is before bret jumps ship and i can imagine that might not have always been true - but was it ever true? i don't mind a biased narrative, esp if i get to see lots of enjoyable archival footage (i do think there hasn't been a single ep i've seen yet that couldn't have been improved by being cut in half)

the wrestling was way better on wcw 96-99. i think the only way it can be argued otherwise is that wwf had the occasionally great match (the stone cold v dude love series sticks out, as does triple h v the rock for the ic belt) but maybe nothing on the scale of ddp v savage or reyrey v eddie.

i also think the 'younger talent' thing is a bit askew, wcw rejects stone cold and mankind came but had started out in the 80s, they bought in vader, sid and terry funk, they gave bret who also started in the 80s a 20 year contract*. the main event guys who started kinda then (kane, triple h, rock, edge, jeff hardy, jbl, i guess you can count christian and mark henry although it took them over a decade to become champs) don't look that different from a wcw list (eddie, rey, jericho, benoit, big show, goldberg?). they were pretty much head-to-head in that regard, while both also making silly decisions about veterans they kept hiring. Maybe it would have been a lot different if Vince cottoned on quicker about talent, instead of doing things like just going to AAA for shit to compete with Rey&Eddie, or investing a lot in the minis or whatever.

idk what to suggest for balance though, other than just seeing the shows from the time. i just decided to give the show another go btw and i think the new goldberg episode is terrific. it doesnt really cover old ground, it shows wcw in a positive light, it goes quite in depth as to why it worked and has some insightful talking heads (heyman is especially a joy, obviously.)

*isnt it insane that this would still be going now for 2 more years?

i was searching jewish magazines for articles about paul heyman (it looks like he's never been profiled which is pretty unusual for jewish press) and found this interview with peter rosenberg (who cohosts cheap heat on grantland) where i learned for the first time that macho man's mom was a member of the tribe???

I could definitely see it happening. There’s more of a Jewish history there than people know. Arguably the greatest performer of all time, “Macho Man” Randy Savage, is half-Jewish. I recently read an article about him and he would get ribbed and joked on for being cheap and people said it came from his mother’s side of family. I was pretty psyched to find out he was Jewish.

You also have one of the most important players in the last decade in [World Wrestling Entertainment manager] Paul Heyman. He’s phenomenal. His character’s never been outright Jewish — there may be times when they play on some stereotypes — but he’s a brilliant mind. Whenever I talk to him, he always makes mention of my being Jewish and me being a good Jewish boy.

heyman is the best

just watched the ECW ep and thought it was great - tons of heyman

I definitely take Mordy's point that this is a great intro newer fans who haven't seen this stuff before, and to that extent I'm sure it's doing its job. But once you've seen a few of their documentaries it really does get tired watching the same shit over and over again. The whole endeavour isn't helped by the fact that in retrospect, so much of what went on in the Attitude Era was fuckin whack.

I just hope that in a year or two once they've drained this particular well they offer some closer looks at some different periods that haven't already been so heavily dissected and analysed.

I'll resubscribe when (if?) they start adding some '70s WWF Capitol Wrestling. Been reading about some of that stuff recently and I'm kinda fascinated with the whole structure of the company in those days, the Three Wise Men of the East vs the babyface champ and so on. I'm developing a small but burgeoning obsession with the Grand Wizard of Wrestling, though I can't quite place why. Some combination of the name, the sensational shades and turban ensemble and the fact that he died right before things took off in a big way and seems therefore to have been forever excised from the collective memory in spite of the fact that he was the top heel in the company for a full decade p. much.

also posted this in the living in philly thread:

kinda want to go to this but not alone -- any ilxors interested?

CHIKARA - TOMORROW NEVER DIES
2300 Arena - Philadelphia, PA
Saturday, 12/6/2014
7:00 PM

http://www.chikarapro.com/events/

give us the low down on chikara. the osw review ecw series was incredible if someone wants a ewhole overview.

The ending of Ambrose vs Rollins at HIAC got me so pissed off. Usually I don't get worked up over bad finishes but this one was completely inexcusable and made absolutely no sense.

ive not been watching raw - are ambrose & wyatt fueding? ididntgi

i guess they are now?

I haven't been watching RAW either, but AFAIK Wyatt has been off TV for a few weeks.

he's been doing these promos. rumor is that [SPOILERS?????] ascension is coming up from NXT at wyatt guys?

as*

eurgh those guys are like the worst thing about nxt. plus they'd have to change like their whole look.

good news tho: they'll no longer be on NXT

orton face turn?

In 2014 John Cena is wearing a KEEP CALM AND NEVER GIVE UP t shirt. I really like John Cena as a wrestler despite how hard he makes it to do so.

RYBACK BACK

yeah! he looked awesome

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/528263290993266688/photo/1

the "network exclusive" Sheamus/Rusev match completely ruled btw

where can i watch it?

also, i got tickets for chikara :D

also, this match was awesome from new lucha underground show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FihfGAXEf5g

it's under the "raw backstage pass" for this week

http://www.kayfabenews.com/whoever-called-it-the-airplane-spin-had-clearly-never-seen-a-helicopter-before/

hell of an NXT episode last night, god damn

yeah that was the best wrestling show since wm30. fucking hell there was nothing but gold on it.

WWE sources have confirmed that Dalip Singh Rana, the Great Khali, is no longer with the company.

Khali's contract expired this past week and the company opted not to renew it.

As noted yesterday, this was not a surprise and there had been talk around wrestling for the past week or so that Khali was being let go.

is there anywhere I can watch that episode of NXT? Or at least the Neville - Zayn match?

smoke 1 for khali

never forget the shockingly very good match he had with cena at judgment day 07

http://watchwrestling.ch/watch-wwe-nxt-111314/ merdy

i think hulu streams NXT eps legally a few days after airing?

thx ahh.

i'm in britain so can't do hulu, will have to keep things extralegal.

also, lol at 'wild' ian campbell. he appeared in corrie - http://coronationstreet.wikia.com/wiki/Ian_Campbell

well that was exciting

i watched it only coz i happened to be awake, expecting v little from anything but dean v bray. that match was a bit underwhelming, but the main event was shockingly great.

Black Friday came early this year:

http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2014/11/27/7298557/cm-punk-story-walking-out-on-wwe

Well that's fucking worth listening to.

Hopefully it causes the wwe to sort out their medic situation because fuuuuck me that sounds horrible and other sports are getting it in the arse about concussions etc. so why not wrestling too?

I'm pretty certain that punk said vince lied to shareholders about him, as well as talking openly about how he had to sue them for withholding payment to an injured and mistreated employee. Wonder what that'll do to the share price, after having to give away one of the big 4 for free this month too.

Ryback is gonna be the biggest heel in the company this Monday.

Also its fascinating to see just how fucking amateur and carny it all still is inside, in 2014, after fucking everything. I guess that only ends with Vince dying but Punk makes it seem like Hunter isn't much better/less carny.

I listened to it today, the written recaps on all the news sites don't do it justice.

He doesn't sound at all like a guy trying to settle scores and shovel dirt on people, which is the impression I got from reading the recaps.

The most negative thing I can say is about his strange fixation with wrestling in the main event at Mania. It's kind of like saying if you don't win the Nobel Prize in your field then your career was a failure. On one hand he was trying to politic himself into the main event and on the other hand he admits that it was Daniel Bryan's year and that he deserved it.

If anyone still doubts that wrestlers need an offseason, they need to hear this interview.

As for Vince and HHH, this confirms pretty much everything we've heard about them in a million different interviews, only more so. Vince always comes across as a father figure who has the respect of the locker room even though the wrestlers know they're getting screwed over. HHH hasn't been one of the boys for over fifteen years and so nobody trusts him, outside of a few close allies. HHH is probably a genius when it comes to storylines and angles, mapping out the matches, and forward thinking stuff like the Performance Center, but he's a disaster with interpersonal relations.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/14bb00c22be2351d94ef6e6037b0d5de/tumblr_ng2vfvxvC31swlf6ho2_1280.gif

just look at the sincerity of those crowd reactions

WRASSLIN