how to really train

As of today I know what the blue thing is. $6,000 wtf!

speaking of power meters, has anyone here every trained with one?

no

lol awesome

but the title sounds really, really rong

those rollers are so Flintstones.

I have been shamed by you guys and my girlfriend starting marathon training into thinking about trying to get fit enough to do a sportive this summer and maybe some cross racing in the winter.

Where the hell do I start?

honestly i'm not sure what type of training goes into preparing for a CX season. most racers i know use their road season fitness as an entry to being super competitive at cross.

How do I shot road season fitness?

you'll have to ask one of our resident lawyers about that

i know some ppl that train for cross and it's lots of sprinting both on and off the bike. maybe take a really cold shower fully-dressed before hand

road season fitness means training and racing from november to september. then you get on the CX bike and see what happens.

i would assume if you are only training for cross you would do a lot of high intensity intervals. work on recovery. work on bike handling and cornering skills.

i think i'll race CX next fall

Don't think you'd need big base for jus cx, cld probly rly start your work in june assumin you're not just gettin off the couch.

If road races are tactical exercises that usually focus on the final 15 mins of the race, cx is micro tactical, u just constantly sussin out how to hit hole shot how to take barrier sets when to pass dikwad when pulling rd section is worthwhile- all while ur crosseyed it rly is fun. It rewards pure fitness, but require constant mindfulness

I did weights for the first time since before christmas yesterday, and today my arse is well and truly kicked.

So I'm thinking get a turbo/mag trainer for the coming winter, any thoughts on this?

^^^ditto, i need something for the long darkness

i always say rollers over trainer

Ed, it's THE single most soul-destroyingly tedious thing a man can do. If there's anyway you can ride outside, do so.

Having said that, it does the job. Just don't think you can keep it up for a more than an hour or you will die of sadness.

that's just your opinion, man!

i do 3 hour sessions, easily.

just plop yourself in front of the TV and watch some film(s)

I'm pretty good at this sort of thing if I get the TV on.

Although the idea of rollers seems appealing they also seem to be twice the price of a mag/turbo trainer.

that's just your opinion, man!

Well, yes :)

These seem to be in my price range, will they suck?

http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1028745_-1_400037_400006_400134

Is anyone able to suggest any decent offroad but paved places to ride laps in South London?

I've signed up to a few rides rides this summer (including the cycle leg of a relay triathlon) and would quite like to be able to train away from the interruptions of traffic and road rules.

Herne Hill? Think it might be shut over the winter though.

http://www.hernehillvelodrome.com/about

Actually, you might need to have a track bike to ride there.

Oh yeah you do. Damn place is full of rules and regs, probably not what you're looking for.

Not quite, although that'd be really convenient. There's a track around Crystal Palace park but I think but I'm told it's dirt rather than tarmac which isn't any good either.

Battersea park? Just a guess, not sure exactly what it's like to ride in/around.

cutty what is current thinking on gaining strength in gym w/out gaining mass? stuff i've seen is slightly dif from old days, im seeing that light weight high reps is rong. i should be doing low reps, explosive, no max out.

im doing all core, no iso shit except leg curls, but in 4 weeks ive gained 3-4 pounds. shits gotta stop, do i just bail?

i, too, am in "easy" gainer in terms of muscle mass.

from what i know--you still start out your strength training with light weight/high reps (20+-), however you gradually increase the weight over the course until you are totally putting out explosive power for 6-8 reps.

right now i'm at 8 reps, aiming for around 400lbs on the leg press and nearing 200lbs on leg extensions. hamstring curl i'm doing around 150.

everything else is core and upper and lower back. plenty of planks, back extension, lat pull, row pull.

are you going to race this year? just the TT stuff? i wouldn't worry about the added muscle mass.

thx. just tt afaik. ive got no time, no budget.

yeah, im still in my circuit phase at about 20 reps of everything. the lat pulls, rows, deadlift have obv hit the delts lats and traps tho. i dont think im so much an easy gainer as really deconditioned up there.

i know i can tt in the low 170s, its not nearly so important. dont wanna be a clydesdale tho.

i'm really trying to lose weight right now until march. the gym definitely doesn't help, but it will end soon. 153lbs this AM.

if i could actually race at 145lbs i would be unstoppable :/

ha, is your w/kg classified info?

go get 'em cutty!

it's not classified-- but the only relevant w/kg number is what you put out at threshold power. since you hardly work on that zone at this time of year it's probably nothing special. when the intensity and racing starts we shall see.

i will have a lactate threshold test in a couple of weeks and will share the results if anyone is interested.

if i could race at 145, wait, hahahahaha. i probably couldnt walk at 145.

when you consider how much $$$ you pay for weight savings (IN GRAMS) in equipment--losing 8 pounds is really a game changer. especially for me being a climber.

ohhhhhh fuck yeah its massive. thats why i wasted 2 years of racing tryna be skinny when i coulda baggin points in crits

coulda been

ha yeah. so basically I'm more nutrition nazi right now than usual. hopefully no one commits me.

this bagel w/ pb/honey is awez. *runs*

clydesdale

bagels are such a reward during the season

last question (and you may have answered this on rolling nn): do you weigh your food on a gram scale, sir?

i was 145 as a 13y/o in the 9th grade... :-\

fo realz shasta?

no, i'm pretty good at eyeing the protein portions out. no need to weigh the vegetables.

achieve your goal cutty

not sure how much longer I will compete at this level. getting my cat 1 would be nice but maybe improbable. we'll see how this season goes!!

I almost weigh as much cutty!

AS

get out the calipers.

i am no fattey

also have an upper body

lol I don't!

u skinny!

for realzies jdchurchill.

...and before cuttlez chimes in, i was in the best shape of my life that year: rated top 20 in the country in cross county, mile, 2-mile, and steeplechase.

how i turned from a gazelle into a hippopotamus is anyone's guess. my newfound "mentor" gave me a backhanded compliment saying that I climb really well for my size.

lol u hippo!

u need to be more cippo than hippo

hippo pozzato

I tried some training today (I don't normally work on Wednesdays), as opposed to just riding around. I'm thinking of trying one of the winter series of races at Hog Hill this weekend. I've been saying this for well over a month, but illness and snow meant it's taken me a lot longer to get some miles in. I went over to Hog Hill and spent a bit less than an hour experimenting with different ways of taking corners and climbing the hill and doing intervals. It nearly killed me - I've been coughing all afternoon. I feel certain I'll get dropped within two laps if I do race this weekend, but I'll probably do it anyway as it's good training.

Battersea park was a really good shout. Cheers, Ledge!

30k in 78 minutes including the 8k there and back on a single speed (while not great) felt okay considering it was the first time I'd properly exercised since breaking my leg last year. I reckon an hour (or less) for the same distance should be pretty easily achievable given the right bike and conditions.

Breakin' the bylaw. Believe you may have exceeded the clearly signed 12mph speed limit in Battersea Park.

getting my first lactic acid test tonight.

will there be power involved? please post results ;)

http://www.abvio.com/runmeter/

kinda excited about getting this, btw

no power, just at rest.

you first cuttlezzzz...

im getting tested next week.

guys i should know this maybe, but how does a lactic acid threshold test work? esp if it's done at rest?

i don't know what he is talking about re: rest

when i do it, i'm hooked up to an ergometer and the resistance is ramped up at 25w intervals. blood is taken every 5 minutes and tested for volume of lactic acid.

you can't stop pedaling and by the end you should be shaking and drooling and in the worst state of oxygen debt you've ever been in.

it's really strange to experience such catastrophic muscle failure

how much blood do they take?? makin u hypovolemic imo

just a pinprick each time

FYI: this is a true lactic acid test, not a threshold test.

ah, ok, that makes more sense

oh, like, what is steve shasta's resting lactic acid level

Yes, and once determined, I will be able to better extrapolate what my training levels (BPM) should be instead of the hodgepodge back-of-envelope analysis that I've been doing.

why not do an LT test instead?

honestly? i'm too green. maybe (?) in a year or two will i be at the level that i could a test like that seriously.

well i know a guy in your area if you're interested

i know, i know, i know...

let me at least get my first full year of riding in almost 2 decades under my belt and we'll see what happens.

better to train right now, while you are super-motivated and see what happens, than later, though!

you know super-motivated is bike netslang for doped, right?

h's adventures in turbo trainererers, pt 1

tues: set up unit, mount indoor tyre, test out. geez it whines a bit! seem to only be measuring cadence on bike computer sp use rather unscientific method of riding to tempo of lcd soundsystem '45.33' (about 60rpm) on big ring until cracking.

wed: mess w/ sensor and magnet for a bit, finally get it working. tooled about while watching tv, then put in more concentrated effort - 28ish km/h @ 80 rpm for 15 minutes.

some stuff i've read seems to stay build base endurance first then worry about interval stuff, whaddya you dudes think?

well that all depends where your race season begins, not sure when to start base down under.

but yes, you will truly benefit from high intensity training after you've built a significant base. without the base you will be able to do crits and short circuits but long road races you'll never make it to the end.

crit season finishes april-ish, road season then takes over in the winter months. it's year-round down here!

w/r/t endurance base training:

Yesterday had my longest ride ever without stopping (traffic lights excluded): 4:20 minutes, 77 miles of mostly flat with some rollers. Clipped out a couple of times for long lights and then for a quick pee break after 3 hours (one leg still clipped in fwiw). Clock time was 4:31 so I had 11 minutes of <4mph deadtime. This was about 50 minutes longer than my previous endurance effort.

yr killing it

alone or with group?

i need to step dat game up

imo alone is the only way to "how to really train"

yeah. was only curious bc 18 mph alone for 4 hours is diff from 18 hours in a group for 4 hrs.

Good question... because normally Saturday is my big group ride.

However, I had my Dad in town for his bday and time was tight so I woke up at dawn and did that ride solo.

also, my riding club likes to stop a lot and regroup so a big non-stop ride is pretty much out of the question with those peoples.

ramping up the efforts on the trainer - 1-hour sesh while reading book then watching champions league replay, mostly sat around 27-29 km/h @ 80ish rpm, then ramped up to 45+ for rather swift last 4 kms.

so much sweat :0

Cutty/Hunter/Anyone ITK:

Is there any benefit, in a training (not racing) sense, to deliberately going into oxygen debt by attacking the bottom of a long steep hill as hard as you can, and then struggling the rest of the way to the top at an increasingly faltering pace?

i highly doubt it. blowing yourself up is only helpful in sprint training and jump intervals.

I wondered if you could somehow improve your ability to soldier on once you've blown.

train so as not to blow up i think

i reckon that taking long, long climbs in a really low zone is probably more beneficial in the long run for climbing endurance?

this is from the web so ymmv but i have referenced it quite a bit in the past year:

Want to train for climbing hills while seated?? Here is a drill you might consider. Go hard up short hills while seated. Find a climb that's moderately steep and takes about 30 seconds to crest. Hit it hard at the bottom in a fairly large gear. Beware of letting your cadence slow by the top. Use a gear that lets you pedal at 90 rpm or more all the way up. Start with two or three reps and increase as your strength improves.

from http://www.cptips.com/climb.htm

NBS, blow up in a race and your are pretty much done.

Yep, I've noticed that ;-).

Another question: from a strength and fitness point of view, would it be useful to continue to train on my (heavier and slower) winter bike even when spring and summer come along? I was thinking maybe this would force me to get stronger, and then when I race I'd feel the benefit of being on a lighter bike. (Obviously if you're trying to improve technique/position then it makes sense to train on the same bike you'll be racing on, I was only asking from a fitness perspective)

training on a heavier bike is not going to do anything for your fitness. you'll just go slower on that bike as opposed to the same effort on the lighter bike. your perceived exertion will be the same, so there really is no feeling "the benefit of being on a lighter bike."

Damn. Too much negativity here, another potential stroke of genius bites the dust.

you think you outsmarted the pros?

i mean if you really want to train how about stop thinking of creative ways to ride your bike and follow the science of it?

What about training in clogs? In a wetsuit? On a tricycle? In a lake?

periodization with structured intervals is how you get fit and fast

I hear what you're saying, but I'm going to give this a go before retreating to the tried and tested traditional routes to success:
http://content6.clipmarks.com/clog_clip_cache/amplify.com/5773CE7B-BFC2-46E0-B565-0BA4CBCE8E7D/40843D27-B0EE-49EF-BD66-41E89E54D911

goin ham

you think you outsmarted the pros?

yeah we know how they get it done- speed, blow, epo, transfusions, gene doping.

periodization. lolz

i was gonna offer him EPO. they certainly don't ride around on heavy bikes.

http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/11/drugs-a-cautionary-tale/

migraine-y effects of EPO = do not want, but human growth hormone sounds fantastic!

training on a heavier bike is not going to do anything for your fitness. you'll just go slower on that bike as opposed to the same effort on the lighter bike. your perceived exertion will be the same, so there really is no feeling "the benefit of being on a lighter bike."

― shite new answers (cutty), Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:21 PM (4 hours ago)

from a physics pov, i'm not entirely convinced my sweet prince cutty... heavier (esp on hills) = more resistance. it's the same as losing body weight which makes climbing easier. not sure about flats, but certainly on climbs training under greater resistance/stress would be more difficult than without.

(this is why i squeeze my brakes the entire way up climbs fwiw) :-P

it doesn't make climbing EASIER man. it just makes you go faster. you are missing that.

oh, also you are wrong

http://www.roadbikerider.com/389.htm#COACH

Will I Benefit from Riding a Heavier Bike?

Q: Would adding weight to my bike for training help my average speed and power? I'm thinking about buying cheap, heavy wheels and tires and loading a rack trunk with weights. -- Tim T.

Coach Fred Matheny Replies: Adding weight for training purposes has been tried a number of times over the years.

I recall when the U.S. Road Team used lead-filled water bottles for hill workouts. A company once marketed a heavy product designed to attach under a bike's bottom bracket.

However, there's no good reason to artificially add weight to your bike. Here's why:

Improvement comes from training at your optimum intensity, not from riding a heavier bike. You need to generate a certain number of watts to get up a hill with a steady effort no matter what the bike weighs.

Take some weight off the bike, though, and you will go a bit faster -- if you produce the same number of watts.

Of course, there's no need to always ride a light bike when a heavier one would be better for the conditions. Ed and I both ride heavy bikes in winter. They have steel frames, fenders, racks and large bags for toting tools, extra tubes, rainwear and warm clothes. Add a couple of full bottles and Ed's bike, for example, weighs 34 pounds (15.5 kg). He just rode this ol' beater a couple of thousand hilly miles (3,200 km) through the off-season.

Does switching to light bikes in the spring make us feel faster? You bet. And we'll actually be faster because, for a given amount of power, we can ride uphill and accelerate better when we're not pushing as much weight.

The bottom line for training purposes, though, is that we're still riding at the same intensity when we go hard, regardless of the bike we're on.

The bottom line for training purposes, though, is that we're still riding at the same intensity when we go hard, regardless of the bike we're on.

It doesn't get any easier, you just get faster - Greg Lemond

I guess if you're riding with a group at the same speed as everyone else though, a heavier bike would give you a better workout.

if you have to move a greater mass against gravity for a longer period of time ur doing more work

if ur doing all hill work, and you quantify your workouts by mileage volume, not time, i think in theory u gain strength endurance by virtue of longer workouts on each hill.

this is why jan ulrich always trained as a fat man before juicing up for gt season.

also, this will not work for blighted flatlanders because your fat will not slow you down much. and dont train by mileage.

Cutty's theory only matters if you're training optimally. If riding a heavier bike is going to give you more of a workout - and, in terms of energy required to get from A to B, it will - or if a heavier bike is going to approximate a steeper/longer hill or whatever, then it will certainly help.

afaik NBS wants to race, therefore he should be training optimally and doing interval training, not focusing on how much his bike weighs.

It doesn't get any easier, you just get faster - Greg Lemond

that's weird, i always thought it races were ultimately determined by speed not effort. ;-P

road races (that are not sprint finishes) usually come down to a race winning effort at threshold. hopefully, when the effort is made, no one else but you can hang on. at that point it has nothing to do with speed and everything to do with who can handle the most pain.

the effort can be one 30 second acceleration on a climb that no one can hold on to. at that point speed is irrelevant. it's survival of the fittest (mentally and physically).

furthermore, you can be the fastest time trialist in the world and never win a road race.

THEREFORE. TRAINING ON A HEAVY BIKE IS NOT GOING TO HELP YOU.

find your zones. train in your zones. do structured intervals. that's how you get fit and fast.

You saying I need a heavier bike?

ride the heavy bike and put some dumbells in your backpack. have fun.

:-)

that's weird, i always thought it races were ultimately determined by speed not effort.

spreadsheets, actually

haha i def was not saying that. but races are certainly not determined by average speed over 90 miles. races are determined by tactics and calculated efforts.

no no, ur right on, the "one determining moment" thing is almost always true.

thats the beauty of learning to race- you know that if youre racing to win, you spend not ONE WATT unless it will make a difference in your finish.

and if you think thats wheelsucking, that's ok, maybe losing is just your thing.

(tho obv. there are times when getting on the front and taking your turn is important too).

right. and at my level, you practically feel like you are in the red the ENTIRE race. the guy who wins is the one who can squeeze just that little bit more out of his body and ride away from everyone else. usually on the hardest part of the course.

I bet he drops his dumbells just before making that vital attack.

you are the dumbell!

"it was going so easy, so i attacked and did a whole lap off the front." teh classik cat 5 RONG

wait until its intolerably fast. now go. can't? you just havent earned it yet baby.

yeah, i thought the adage was if yr nose is in the wind, you will never win

not unless you have made a perfectly timed solo attack in a crosswind 10k from the finish and they never catch you

today i eated for lunch:

Chipotle chicken/black bean burrito (no chz, no sour cream, ha)
Superb giant ass slice of cheese pizza
Really huge 5" diameter chocolate chip cookie

^^^^how not to really train when you are 15 lbs over "race weight." u_u

you are fricken nuts

;_;

proud'a u hunt3r

ok not biking but dang i just ran intervals around lake of the isles and yeeow

so much more bang for your buck imo

running is excellent as far as time efficiency but is terrible for your cycling.

not as terrible as a really huge 5" diameter chocolate chip cookie.

i am not concerned about my cycling

the only thing cycling is good for, fitness-wise, is more cycling

it doesnt seem that bad for the xc skate?

what the shit is cankles doing here

we're a broad church these days!

i'll tell you what i do not miss: the high impact of running, esp in the winter when you have to avoid grass/dirt because of mud.

yeah sure, i get a knee twinge here and there or back of knee ache that takes 1-2 weeks to work through but it's nothing like the damage that running did to my body.

we're a broad church these days!

came to absolve me for sin of gluttony. in the face of persecution by known food nazi. >:|

it doesnt seem that bad for the xc skate?

― malicious humor victim (Hunt3r), Thursday, March 11, 2010 5:50 PM (24 minutes ago) [IP: 67.132.3.242] Bookmark

i was actually talking about this w/a college buddy of mine, who's a former collegiate XC guy and cat-nothing cyclist (but who's v knowledgeable, lots of buds race in srs cats, etc.). the main issue with cycling is that literally no other sport (maybe speed skating) is so mechanistically repetitive in its motions. you're never really called upon to use accessory muscles, proprioception is virtually never tested, your arms don't do shit, there's no impact, etc.

so while it can be good CROSS training for other sports (cardio work, low-impact leg work, etc), you'd be hard pressed to say that switching to an exclusively cycling-oriented training regimen would make you better at, say, soccer. or, to be more specific than "better," improve soccer-oriented fitness.

or: five identical candidates start at a given baseline (avg fitness), all aspiring soccer players. one XC skis exclusively in the off-season (and trains like a XC skier), another downhill skis exclusively (and trains accordingly), the third trains like a sprint/middle distance runner (and trains, etc.), fourth does only rowing (etc), and the fifth reads this thread about how to really train.

i posit that the first four dudes will see improvements in their general soccer playing ability (not skills, but fitness), and the cyclist will be the same, or worse. moreover, the first four will see improvements in their ability ~in all five activities~ and the cyclist will not at all

is so mechanistically repetitive in its motions. you're never really called upon to use accessory muscles, proprioception is virtually never tested, your arms don't do shit, there's no impact, etc.

for devil's advocacy: okay then so running is less repetitive and ~proprioceptive~ then cycling because your foot strikes the ground and arms swing back and forth (mostly for balance mind you)?

i will argue that my back/shoulders/arms are more defined from cycling then from running:
1) neck, back, upper arms from helping support your torso in an inclined state/in the drops.
2) upper arms and shoulders from climbing out of the saddle.
3) lower arms from gripping and braking on long descents (seriously the first several times I descended long mountain passes, my hand and lower arm muscles cramped like crazy after a couple miles).

and legs are about the same at any rate.

i mean i don't totally buy it, maybe if you're on the rollers for 2 hours but if you're actually RIDING, it's a bit more interactive then you may think? on long rides i'm always switching my hand position, getting out of the saddle to give my lower back a rest, pointing my toes and heels in different directions to switch up blood flow.

rollers are more like the road than the trainer

if proprioception is self perception/awareness of one's body's position in space, i think mtbing racing is highly proprioceptive, track and criterium significantly so. a non-racer might not get that. general road riding, usually not. but i would need you to do the knowledge on proprioception for me.

from my conversations with xc race guys, bike guys often have terrible squatty xc free technique and a hard time getting out over the skis for the glide.

however ime it sure feels like the muscle groups and general movements on the lower body overlap significantly. *presumed response--'yes, because you are terrible at skating'*

how proprioceptive is dh ski racing? i would think very.

but is it less proprioceptive than curling? darts? those are classic eye-hand, is that sorta a subcat of proprioception?

i can see basketball, polevaulting, steeplechase as extraordinarily proprioceptive. any running track sprint as less so.

rowing as maybe the least of athletic events?

anyway, to the extent that cycling does not require great changes in body position, it would be less proprioceptive by my understanding. however certain disciplines would require very high levels of awareness of balance and positioning and coordinated adjustment. i guess cx would be the most proprioceptive as it is the most dynamic. mtb dh/fourcross/xc maybe next, then bike messengering, then pack/sprint road and track events. any tt event is basically rowing.

/drone on

if proprioception is self perception/awareness of one's body's position in space, i think mtbing racing is highly proprioceptive, track and criterium significantly so.

would agree with this.

saying that proprioception is never tested was....inaccurate. i guess what i really meant was that cycling doesn't require the same level of physicality in a proprioceptive response as, say, basketball. so while crits require acute spatial awareness, they don't demand that racers have Federer-style full-body agility to manage things.

and besides, my ~real~ point was that cycling is unique as a sport in that as someone becomes a world-class racer, they might actually get regress w/r/t general athleticism. we can expect top-level athletes in a wide variety of sports to put up respectable numbers in a battery of tests for broadly assessed "fitness." whereas, i'd posit that a competitive grand tour rider would do no better than joe average when it came time to bang out some pushups or w/e.

cycling has very narrow expectations from the human body, to the point that something that might be considered handy, though not necessary, in another discipline (well developed upper body strength for the soccer player) is actually a hindrance in cycling (muscles are heavy! get rid of them!)

sport climbing/bouldering is a decent comparison: it was def in vogue in the 90s to advocate that aspiring sport climbers NOT run/bike because it would over-develop unneeded leg muscles, and dang, legs are the heaviest things around! even today, knuckle-dragging, rotator-cuff tearing boulderers are good at one thing and one thing only: developing upper-body power (usually from the back).

we should just go to the jock sports argument about what is and isnt a real sport, right? ;) no team? less likely to be a real sport. no ball? less likely to be a real sport. potential for spandex? ew, less likely to be a real sport. mitigating factor- risk of serious injuries or fatalities.

oh c'mon, that's not what i'm saying!

my ~real~ point was that cycling is unique as a sport in that as someone becomes a world-class racer, they might actually get regress w/r/t general athleticism.

gonna continue devil's advocacy here: this can be true of any sport other than a few cherry picked ones that you've included like xc skiing?

xpost gbx- i know

shasta has a point wrt specialization in any sport. when i was tryna be a basketball player i spent all my time training to be taller.

i might've done some cherry-picking there, but think about sprinting (not widely reputed as an all around sport): running around a track as fast as you can will actually do more for you, physically, than just make your legs good at moving fast. pumping your arms is a non-trivial form of exercise (martial artists!), and even though you're basically running in a straight line, you're still drawing on accessory muscles for stability/agility/etc.

the support and structure of a bike frame relieve the body's responsibility for certain things, which allows atrophy imo.

how do you quantify neurological bandwidth doctor?

gibby, there are many, many people who share your POV, they are known as "triathletes". :P

there are also 15 crazy people competing in a sport called decathlon who show up every 4 years

how do you quantify neurological bandwidth doctor?

hmmmm

i guess it would be more like neurmuscular bandwidth? but when they do brainscans, what the hell are they imaging? cellular energy levels or something?

"how to really troll"

jk? :P

electrical activity iirc

hey guys if you want to race bikes you train by riding a bike. i don't know wtf you guys are getting into now.

"how to really troll"

― ✌.✰|ʘ‿ʘ|✰.✌ (Steve Shasta)

interesting new roller idea

not really new

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/03/news/olympic-ski-star-bill-demong-coming-to-a-road-race-near-you_108603

how to really cross train

how do I really train my back for old man skiing

drag around one or two of these. between picking them up, ensuring they get on the lift, carrying their shit, and putting on their clothes, your lower back and general core strength will really improve, and, you will be actual old man. also, no radness. actually, the kids are pretty rad and out of control most of the time.

http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/Chass3ur/IMG_1558.jpg
that was sunday, perfect weather for kid skiing, 12500 ft. el at a-basin

wow nice pic!

ok, did intervals at the track last night, which featured the exciting promise of 10min/20min/10min efforts at 170bpm (which is right at/below lactate threshold 4 me), with some near-recovery (145bpm) rest periods of 5mins inbetween.

with some evening wind:
10min (25.2mph/312W)
20min (24.2mph/282W)
10min (24.6mph/294W)

really wanted a negative split on that last 10 min effort but alas, my legs were screaming and i knew that pushing it any harder would send me over the lactic edge.

very green to this style of training, but i can feel it in my quads today.

OH! also yesterday's training food log (for cutty, inspired by Hunt3r upthread):

breakfast: leftover beef chili
lunch: all you can eat gourmet pizza ($8.50): 6 slices!!!
intervals: gatorade/recovery shake
dinner: hamburger/fries/beer and 2.5 ice cream sandwiches

this is called "letting one's self go" imo.

Hunt3er, do u live in CO or are you on vacation? Just curious cuz I once spent a year in Dillon as a snowboard/mtn. bike bum & A Basin was basically my back yard. O how I long for those carefree days of yore.. That place rules! Also: "ridin' the pass, brah."

eat food, not too much, mostly grease, steve. :)

pillbox i live in littleton. really like a-basin, its close, cheap, compact and has some good shit. in the old days riding the palli lift or doing east wall or hiking out was not uncommon. that was on alpine gear mostly- ive been on tele gear for about 12 years now, and now i dont go too steep unless theres straight hero snow. and with kids, its groomers.

i havent skied the pass in... a long time.

10in at baker this morning btw

;_; I want to be there, no skiing these past two winters

how many days of skiing are you gonna get in gbx?

we got m,t,w,f---took thursday off cause it was rainy and my body was ready to stage a revolt

good article to put things in perspective:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/03/news/what-it-takes-to-ride-with-the-pros-wattage-numbers-from-redlands_109894

truly ridiculous guns what a waste of mass

Prologue TT, 3.1 miles: Marcotte powered over the course in 10:59.8 with an average power of 389 watts (w) to place 137th.

that's not very fast (what, like 17mph?) for those kinda watts.

was this TT just a hill climb/mountain pass in sheep's clothing?

He was probably just riding a really heavy bike

What’s more impressive is that he did dozens of 5-second-plus efforts at 600w or greater, and topped 1,000w more than 10 times.

that's what impresses me

my female friend who rides for columbia-htc won the final stage of redlands, ina teutenberg won the overall for columbia

tri-based article but was interested in your thoughts?

Athletes and the power of the present moment
By Grant Giles
4/2/2010


After 13 years of coaching and interacting with athletes I find that the biggest single hurdle for athletes is their mental approach to racing and training and, indeed more importantly, their attitude to life in general.

I find that athletes are type A personalities, very driven, very goal orientated and, for the most part, very anxious as well. There are exceptions to the rule but the mirror image to high performance is always some form of anxiety. It’s almost a necessity to want to succeed in difficult goals (i.e. in order to do this sport you need to be driven) and I think this applies from age group athletes right through to elite professional athletes.

It is always difficult to broach the subject of psychology with athletes. There still seems to be some stigma attached to the words “mental health” and I think that’s a shame. Personally, I feel that psychology in sport and in the general population still has a long way to go and for athletes we have only just scratched the surface of what is possible with a good mental prep and psychological maintenance program.

Some of the biggest difficulties I see with athletes relate to their inability to exist for the present moment. I’ve seen so much angst by athletes who are mentally exhausted and don’t realise it. Mental exhaustion causes all sorts of problems from anxiety issues to clinical depression and immune dysfunction. I also believe that I have seen athletes and their supporters label depression as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome because, again the stigma that revolves around mental health always makes it a hard subject to broach with athletes.

One of the causes of mental exhaustion is that athletes have a preoccupation or habit of mentally labelling everything. How does that feel? How was that performance? Why didn’t I feel as good as last week? Oh this prep isn’t going the same way as the last one I did. The prep I did when I won was different and so on. There is a constant noise and there is a constant comparison of now against the past. Also, with athletes there is always a projection into the future. The cost of the above is always the loss of the present moment and the present is the only moment which is critical to performance and general well-being.

For instance when things go wrong with fluid intake or nutrition or pace – most of the time it’s not because there wasn’t a plan. It’s more often than not, the athlete just starts obsessing over things that cannot be controlled – past / future / other competitors etc etc – It is a constant mental labelling of everything that can get very exhausting during a race and detracts from focus because, simply put, focus is the present moment. The interesting thing about the present is that it is a far more intelligent state for an athlete to use because with the present moment comes awareness, a far more powerful state, that in its purest form will not only bring you some calm headspace, but will bring you a better standard of performance because you will actually be present to make changes that actually effect your performance.

It’s a good little test to run on yourself – just check how much energy you use thinking about what has happened in the past or check to see how much time you spend thinking about the future. The big problem with the past and the future is that you are not actually in a state that exists at all. So think about that for second – how much focus, consciousness and presence can you bring to a thought pattern like that? How much closer will those thought patterns bring you to a great performance or a better training situation?

I once read a quote that I thought was brilliant and it read (“nothing ever happened in the past – It happened in the now” – Echart Tolle) How perfectly true and how much we fight this one simple truth by living in some altered state. I can’t tell you how many times as a coach I have watched a talented athlete dwell on one bad result. I have seen athletes have great seasons and then have a bad result and turn a great season into something less in their minds by dwelling on one negative in a sea of positive. I call it the spiral. The place where an athlete will spiral downwards into a suffering hell of negatives that are based on nothing, and again, a non reality that has no basis of truth. In this state there is no connection to the present moment, there is no sense of real consciousness or focus. I sometimes marvel at a good athlete’s ability to see the negative side of their talent. A drive for better is great, but a thought of weakness or dwelling on certain aspects in a great athlete is very destructive. Again, once a negative spiral gets into place, it’s a hard nut to crack.

I always find it interesting that when people talk about focus they seem to think it’s some kind of mystic place that you go on a plane above mortal consciousness. To me this just creates confusion for athletes. Even Buddhists will tell you that meditation doesn’t take them away –it actually brings them into the present moment in a state of awareness and peace. A very aware, intelligent space it is for one simple reason – it is free of the mental chatter and negative self talk that we constantly feed ourselves. The constant labelling good and bad, right and wrong goes into the background and a clear focus comes into view.

So If I needed to summarise this for athletes where would I begin?

“Where ever you are before a race, be there totally.” What does that mean? It means that whatever you do in the lead-up and during a race you must be in the present. Too many people live in the future or the past – even during a race (i.e.) They worry about things that have happened to them in the past or they worry about whether they might cramp later or blow-up or dehydrate and so on. Nothing that you think about in the future or the past can help you Now and the only real tangible thing that you actually have at all times is the present – presence is powerful, presence is real - You either choose to be present and in the now, or you choose to be lost in your thoughts and the “what ifs”. “The only road to a good performance is - presence that takes place now” your ability to stay with the moment at all times and not let your mind take control. If you can stay present and just live for the moment during a Race then anything is possible.

Stay Calm:
Absolutely critical in triathlon. Keep your mind calm and quiet. Practise this. Everybody talks about positive thoughts but an even better option is to have no thoughts at all. It takes energy to have thoughts positive or negative. You need to set up a state of awareness – in this state you are aware of everything that is happening around you but you are not analysing whether it’s good or bad, you are just responding to events as they unfold, and that takes very little energy. It’s a state that some people call self confidence.

Don’t judge every moment:
Most of the mental chatter in your head during a race comes from judging and assessing how the race is going and whether it’s unfolding as you planned it. Again this is valuable energy that you can use to drive you forward. We can turn around even the worst of days out there, but this can only happen from a mind that is calm, quiet, and free from the tendency to continually judge and analyse what's going on.

Don’t hold back:
If you hold back because you have fear of falling short of your goals then you are always going to be sorely disappointed. This is a massive problem even for world level pros. There are no guarantees in this life so don’t squander opportunities by holding back and not being present. There is a quote from sports psychology that I really like it and it reads – “people are scared of winning” I really think this is true. If you hold back that 10%, then you will never achieve your goals but if you throw out your mental blocks then anything can happen and there’s a lot more satisfaction in knowing you gave it everything and fell short rather then fall short by holding back.

There was also an interesting quote from a big wave surfer called Laird Hamilton, when asked why he risks his life in the pursuit of massive waves he replied – “I don’t want to not live by worrying about what might or could happen.” What’s the punch line? – live in the now, and don’t obsess or waste energy over things you can’t control and above all don’t think about outcomes.

Let's take a worry thought for a moment, “what if I flat” basically you are projecting an imaginary future situation, and that creates fear. If you think about it logically there is no way you can deal with this situation because, in reality, it doesn’t actually exist. It’s a mental phantom that creates fear and fear is certainly not helpful before or during a Race. Instead of going down this road of fear and destructiveness, ask yourself - “what problem do I have right now?” Not next year, not tomorrow, not in 5 minutes time – right Now –you’ll be amazed at what can happen if you can stay in that place.

Cheers and the very best of luck,
Grant Giles

What do you lot eat before and during early morning training rides?

i think the advice about being in the present and about staying calm is key but

There is a quote from sports psychology that I really like it and it reads – “people are scared of winning” I really think this is true. we call these people "losers" and "pack fodder"; their role in the local racing ecosystem is to subsidize the non-losers through the payment of entry fees. also, they sometimes hire me.

the numbers here put a lot in perspective:

http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/07/just-how-good-are-these-guys/

Hunt3r,

I am doing my first TT in 2 weeks. Only 6.5 miles but a 1900 foot Hill Climb.

First mile is false flat then pitches up to 6% for the remaining 5.5 miles.

Any tips, advice?

SS

%P

not so much, sorry. i don't think there's one true tt climbing style. (my idiosyncracy is metronomic counting to 4 in my head over and over and over- helps me avoid bogging down).

race sounds hard, you'll do great though. i wouldn't bury yrself that first mile.

whoa counting to 4 is my trick too. but eighth notes.

i'll try doing a 7/4 into 13/8... kind of a Polvo/This Heat/Don Caballero tribute.

you are going to fall over

whoa counting to 4 is my trick too. but eighth notes.

― cutty, Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:43 PM (3 hours ago)

is this "a one-y and a two-y..."?

those are sixteenth notes dood

one and two and three and four

exhale on the ands

"leg sweats" @ night? like a fever breaking... is this common?

ha no??

just got a new power meter. quarq cinqo on SRAM 975. BLING!!!

protip: if it is humid and yr hands are sweaty and maybe you've had a couple bbeers, slipping off the end of yr ice axes while drytooling a hangboard will produce bloody bloody results

(this is the ice climbing board right?)

Physical advantages

At the top of his career, Miguel Indurain had a physiology that was not only superior when compared to average people, but also when compared to his fellow athletes. His blood circulation had the ability to circulate 7 litres of oxygen around his body per minute,[1] compared to the average amount of 3-4 litres for an ordinary person and the 5-6 litres for his fellow riders. His cardiac output is 50 litres a minute; a fit amateur cyclist's is about 25 litres a minute. Also, Indurain's lung capacity was 8 litres, compared to an average of 6 litres. In addition, Indurain's resting pulse was as low as 29 BPM, compared to an average human's 60-72 bpm, which meant his heart would be less strained in the tough mountain stages.[2] His VO2 max was 88 ml/kg/min; in comparison, Lance Armstrong's was 83.8 ml/kg/min and Greg LeMond's was over 92 ml/kg/min.[3]

29 bpm jesus

still no bjorn heydahl

I MEAN DAEHLIE

slipping off the end of yr ice axes while drytooling a hangboard

I understood the word "the".

imo alone is the only way to "how to really train"
― sir ilx-a-lot (cutty), Monday, February 15, 2010 1:02 PM (5 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

was wondering this myself the other day... :_(

on the plus side now 165lbs - aiming for 155

I am feeling fatigued. post-peak-ed. sluggish. lethargic. I cut my mileage way down, switching to hammer/speed work outs exclusively for which i am now paying the price.

I'm gonna try to keep the watts down this weekend and pull the mileage back up. 5-6 more races to go for the season. I want to stay sharp and keep an ideal balance of endurance, power, and explosiveness through September.

It's a long slog. Much RESPECT to those who keep their calendars filled from March-September.

Last season I raced from late January to early November, but then my mileage is incredibly low by racing standards.

totally mental imo, but good job!

HI HUNT3R

how's this... i have apparently become so accustomed to riding in the drops/being aero that my ass is as sore as it was when i first started riding, due to switching back to riding with my hands positioned on hoods/flats for 155 miles this past weekend. looking into assos cream/dz nuts at the moment tbh.

Assos bum grease is a1 double plus good.

looking into? you should be using that shit all the time

i never need it tbh. but now that i'm back to long, non-race pace rides it's like starting all over from scratch. yowch. use it or lose it imho.

/cycling hardman

do you guys believe in rest weeks? y/n why?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/4660661781_d5ac47c8c0.jpg

nutritional nazis letting themselves go = c/d

lolz

REST WEEKS = y/n WHY WHY NOT?

back when it could be said that I was a "climber" (at the gym 5-6 nights/week in the winter), rest weeks were essential. was always stronger when midterms or w/e sidelined me from workouts.

body gotta recover itselfs, u feel me

i have been lazy having a rest month

i take one week off a year in october.

use it or lose it foolz

yeah figures. i'm gonna do a 4 day taper prior to the end of season stage race. no rest for the wicked.

find your zones. train in your zones. do structured intervals. that's how you get fit and fast.
― shite new answers (cutty), Thursday, March 11, 2010 4:15 PM (4 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what's the best guide to read on this stuff? and what equipment do you need (powertap/HRM/cadence... just a computer?) to make a go of it

Heart rate zones are the best entry level way to zone training, but if you have the money getting a powermeter is the most absolute way to measure output. Speed can fluctuate due to wind, weather, road surface. Heart rate can fluctuate due to temperature, time of day, general health. Powermeters are the most absolute, and not surprisingly, also the most expensive.

(Worth mentioning that a lot of companies are combining GPS and topography technology to provide lower cost "wattage estimations" but are the first to mention that their results are most accurate on uphills in mild weather with low wind. That's a pretty controlled sample.)

There are tons of HR Zone training plans out there. It's worth trying a few out and seeing what you're most comfortable with. But finding a regimented routine and finding riders of a similar skill set who are involved with similar goals to train with is probably the best advice I have.

coz, two ways to find your zone. self-administered field testing (doing 20 minute/60 minute efforts and calculating percentages afterwards) or lactate threshold testing by a coach.

pick up joe friel's book the cyclist's training bible if you want to learn about training. are you thinking of racing or just want to be faster than you are?

finding your zone sounds expensive (tho worthwhile, i imagine)

cheapest: (0.75)(220-yr age)

pin yr HR there until you work out an actual training plan

cutty, bit of both. def want to be faster than I am and the prospect of racing is appealing but don't want to be embarassed. will pick up that book right now

cheapest: (0.75)(220-yr age)

hmmm that puts me at 138 which is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY lower than reality.

lol u old (j/k mine is 143)

i mean if you're just starting out and all you've got is a pulse, that's still a good heuristic---guessing coz is in the same ballpark, and if ~140 feels like a cakewalk, amp it up a bit. like, the single biggest part of "training" is ~actually doing it~. step 1 is "go out on a hard ride"

worry about the zone-y stuff when you are going to really train imo

my very first LT test was 161. it's north of there nowadays (I can hold 172 for 40mins).

80% of max may be a cheaper estimate. :D

Cozen - it also depends what kind of racing/riding you want to do. From my experience there's a world of difference between, say, an hour-long road race over a hilly 2km circuit / a ten-mile time trial over a gently undulating dual carriageway / a 94-mile sportive. You need to be fit to do all of them, but fit in different ways. For road racing you need to be able to deal with sudden random and short bursts of high speed, for time trialing it's more about holding a fairly high but even pace, and for sportives it's much more about endurance. You can do interval training for road racing and time trialing, but the latter would require much longer intervals.

maybe I'll just get a heavy bike

Now you're talking

no

Even though I'm quite fit I have a weird HR which is nice and low resting - 50 or so - but then shoots up on the first hint of exercise. It also comes down quickly, too, but I'll be in the 170 range when friends are about 150.

how do I shot "hill reps"

OK this week's ride with the harder group has clarified my training aims

I want to be able to ride 100 miles at 19mph+ in a group and stay with the climbers on the hills

so essentially I want to get better on hills - am I looking at hill intervals to get better on them?

you need to focus on your base first, but yes hill repeats wont hurt!

how did you fare on the ride?

your daily bicycle log

nice work cozy, esp in that weather.

in order to ride 100 miles at any speed you need to (as cutty states) build up your endurance.

for hills, repeats will definitely help as well as increasing your ability to recover (via intervals).

100 hilly miles at 19mph is about race pace for sporty amateur riders so it will involve some training and logging lots of miles.

• purchased rollers from reputable squirming-themed online store to rack up the winter k's and work on smooth pedal action
• waited customary week for goods to arive
• package arrives, reveals itself to be turbo trainer rather than the rollers i ordered

:|

rollers finally turned up. bit of a wobble-fest frankly!

pls record and post to CYCLING LOLZ

I've got a couple more time trials to go before the normal racing season finishes, but I'm already starting to think about the actual end of the season which is my club's hill climb championship on the first Sunday in November. I got second place last year (which, while good, isn't amazingly so, seeing as there were only ten or so riders in it and some of them were at the er.... less competitive end of the spectrum) with 2.51. The first placed guy, who is much better than me and has won a couple of road races this season, got 2.35. This is on a climb about three-quarters of a mile long which has a false flat in the middle and the steepest section is about 12% (according to the sign at the side of the road).

I'm trying to do some strength training to prepare for this. I was advised to do this last year by a coach (but didn't get round to it). On Wednesday I went up it staying in the big ring the whole way up (53x21 and then 53x23 on the steepest bit) staying in the saddle and grinding, thinking this is what I'd been told to do. When I got home I re-read the instructions from a year ago and saw that what I'd actually been told to do was go in a ridiculous gear (53x17) and try to sprint up out of the saddle until I reached the point where I couldn't ride any more. Then I was supposed to mark this point, turn around and go back downhill and ride for a few minutes until my heart rate had recovered, then repeat it four more times seeing if I could beat the point I'd marked.

I still haven't tried this, but on Friday I went back to the hill again to do some timed practice. I went up in the big ring (53x21 all the way), this time out of the saddle and pushing hard, and managed 2.59. Then I did a loop and came back to try it again, this time using the big ring on the flatter bits, but down to 39x19 39x21 on the steeper bits. It felt horrible at the end but I managed 2.50 (so better than I did in the actual race last year).

Chapeau! Do you think you'll be able to get to 2.35? Or close enough to give him a fright?

To be honest, no. Fifteen seconds doesn't sound like much, but it feels huge.

just go up it faster

That might just work...

I recommend using a lighter bike

TODAY MARKS MY FINAL DAY OF TRAINING OF THE 2010 SEASON AND I COULD NOT BE HAPPIER ABOUT IT!

always be training.

regardless. you are a winner. you showed real motivation this year and you killed it! <3

youre both remarkable!

honestly, cutty is a saint for putting up with my incessant barrage of n00b racing/training questions.

but both of you guys have been such rad support. *hugglez*

are you going to make the step up to a heavier bike next season

Filthy weather again this morning, but I went out and had another go on the hill climb. This time I tried going all out earlier than normal and just counted on adrenalin to help me gasp my way up the final stretch. I smashed my PB by 8 seconds and got 2:42. Felt so spent afterwards I had to just ride home again.

guys i think i figured out intervals/tabata training

any tips/recommendations etc for improving pedalling technique? I have noticed that when I go for a higher cadence (on real bike or indeed stationary bike at the gym) I get ... "bouncy". I'm sure you know what I mean - arse lifts off perch at every stroke almost, feels really really inefficient. Is it a question of more and more miles? a simple case of cranking up the gear? or are there exercises/methods for improving smoothness?

its been consistently v. v. cold and 8" of snow is lingering, so i went to spinning classes on sunday and last night. i may know how to ride a bike, but apparently i don't know how to "spin." like, i was pretty baffled by the "jumps," where you stand for just 4 pedal strokes and sit for 4 pedal strokes at 90 rpm. also, contradictory instructions about intensity levels.

all i really want is to use a spinning bike for my own workout, but neither venue i go to appears to allow that.

Chris/Porkpie - are your feet clipped into the pedals? is the saddle high enough?

Clipped in yes, maybe the saddle does need to go up, but I set it up as per the prescribed method (can't remember the details but it involved measuring and a bit of maths). Of course there is the random factor of being 6'3" but with only a 32" leg.

buy a spin bike for the home!

I have a mystery knee injury that has appeared from nowhere. I must have twisted it, possibly while playing toddler games, or possibly through dancing while intoxicated. Common sense says I should just rest it until it feels better, but I've had two months of scarcely cycling and the start of the new season is getting closer. If I just go out and ride tomorrow regardless, am I going to regret it?

my mystery knee injury that used to only hurt on my right side now switched over to my left side. right side's fine though.

That sounds encouraging

[warning: EMO]

I am really, really, really, really out of shape. Very disappointing. Getting "looks", "talkings to", "bailed on"... and it's like 85 miles with 5500 feet of climbing in under 5 hours is pretty groundbreaking for me, but still coming up short.

What sucks:
I bonked on this 5 mile climb today.
2 guys I ride with are in really good shape (one seems to be peaking at the moment, he threw down 400+W for over 10 mins the other night in spin class) and are not shy about showing off their early season fitness.
Kinda had some "neg" feelings today about LL this, which sucks because I'm usually a pretty "posi" dude about training/racing.
Basically need to HTFU and stop being slow and lose more weight.

LL = all

jaxon, maybe pay a visit to 3Db1k3f1t in sausalito, it's the same guy who set you up at BN.

nb&s: if you've ridden through similar pain before, it's worth a shot. otherwise it's probably going to take a doctor visit. :-/

anddddddd i left my phone, credit cards, cash at a shop like 15 miles away. awesome! I really feel like driving across the bridge in traffic to go get it.

leaving your shit behind sucks, but not being a january spinning champion-- i'd not worry about that one iota. when you drop those fools when it counts, you will be happier.

i weighed in at 177 on thursday, thats 6lbs weight gain in 2 months. plenty of it is from lifting, but still, i'd like to be 165 in may.

FAT

MANTIS

thanks man

i'd like to be 165 in may.

also, a goddamn pony if you please.

hey since you may be around gbx, i got to quiz some dude today while skiing about his inbounds-oriented at set up. he had a set of marker barons w/ burly-ish looking scarpas. he said they were heavyish and slow to flip to tour mode, but din 12 and stable. maybe that's what i need? im an old fat guy shepherding kiddos around for the most part, do i really want dynafit? school me.

the dynafit stuff looks so ~fancy~. where fancy is like, awesome. i also really like awesome, but its hard to justify.

if you are an ancient decrepit old man skiing w/children (joeks) then you really don't need barons. they're heavy and unnecessary unless you're hucking big stuff. as someone who will be THIRTY G-D YEARS OLD in two hours and used to be a ~serious bro~ i'm pretty comfortable w/my new setup. ....which i haven't actually ridden yet. that being said: my Onyx bindings (3rd party dynafit) are DIN 12, so i'm not sweating it.

My club is not known for its racing prowess. There is one guy, in his 40s, who's a decent third cat road racer and got a 1st place and 2nd place in road races last season. He's been saying he wants some company as he has no team mates (there were team mates, but they keep getting poached away to racing teams as opposed to traditional clubs). Given the huge constraints on my free-time I've never entered a road race that was actually on the open road, as these events, even at the lowest level, are at least 50 miles long. Except when I'm on holiday I'm lucky if I can find four hours a week for riding (and that includes racing), so I've just focused on events of 25 miles or under. I'm kind of tempted to give it a go this year, but I'm not sure if it's worthwhile: I fear getting destroyed and not finishing.

I can probably manage the pace (not at the moment, because I'm desperately short of miles and still trying to shake off illness), because I managed to race about 26 miles at 24mph (in a bunch) last summer. And I can definitely ride the distance (I did 94 miles at >18mph in 2009, not counting a brief stops). But I have big doubts about whether I could manage the distance AND the pace (i.e. 50-odd miles at maybe 25mph).

Should I just go for it and see what happens?

(This is assuming my entry would even be accepted, which is doubtful given I've accrued zero points on my licence in two years of racing)

I rode 50 miles this morning with the two strongest riders from my club and managed to hack the pace. The road racer says I should be able to manage a 'proper' road race, so I'm going to give it a go.

awesome! When's the first one? Also - with two of you, are you disadvantaged by bigger squads (ie have to look at breakaways to get owt)?

Well, I'm probably going to start racing (doing my usual combination of 10 or 25 mile time trials, and 20-25 mile long 'road' races on closed circuits) in the middle of March and I've seen a couple of proper road races 45-55 miles long that I'll probably try to enter: one at the end of March and one at the start of May.

Yeah, riding without several team mates is a tactical disadvantage in terms of getting in breaks / chasing / possibly leading out sprints, but this isn't a concern for me: I'll just be trying to finish the first few times rather than seriously expecting to get a placing.

Spring is here, meaning double work-outs.

I did am/pm doubles on Mon/Tues... 120 miles total. Had to wake up at 4am Mon and 4:30am Tue to work it all in. Primary efforts included across all 4 workouts: 2x15 minute @ 250W, 3x10minute climbs @ 300W (I'm not a climber so these sucked), 2x15 minute @ race 250W, 1x10minute climb @ 350W, 1x5min @250W ending in sprint for 30 seconds (avg 500W), then 1x30min at race pace (250W) on a circuit with 1 minute @ 500W at the end of every lap. Also bumped up my recovery pace from 15mph to 18mph to really increase the pain.

Had to wake up at 4am Mon

!!!

that's me booked my B&B for next year's etape caledonia

anyone else fancying it...?

I am considering letting you talk me into this..... Nb I have done 0 research on it

only has a tiny wee hill in it

mark C should surely be willing

LOL no

what does it mean exactly to "stay on top of the gear"?

does it mean avoiding shifting to a shorter gear (esp on inclines)?

i've heard it used a few times but never with any explicit definition.

cutty just IM'd:

perhaps to focus on the back stroke portion of the revolution, ie, not mashing.

yeah, turning it over without getting pushed to the back of the saddle, not mashing.

where is cuttye? (miss you man!)

^^cosign this

Where is my sweet prince, CUTTY?

hi! i'm back training my balls off. 3 hour ride before work tomorrow morning, 2x20 tempo.

can't really ILX because i have hardly any downtime at work to parse through this crazy place.

Good to see you again, I'm down 10kg this year. Can't imagine 3 hrs before work, when do you sleep?

all good!

I just joined a gym, quite a big and well-appointed one, and they have four exercise bike which are basically MTB simulators! You watch what's essentially a computer game but instead of using a control pad, you pedal faster/slower, change gear, brake and steer (i.e. lean the bike over) as you go round the MTB course.

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/first-look-trixter-xdream-exercise-bike-20073/

I rather enjoyed it tbh - the only less good thing is the problem I have with any racing computer game - lack of feedback makes things like when to brake or change gear less than intuitive. And the gear system is much too vague and unsubtle. But otherwise, it makes 20 minutes on an exercise bike go past much more quickly than normal.

My new training partner is the current Masters state champion in both the road race and the criterium disciplines... Guess what he had in his spare bottle on our training ride last night?

5 pounds of fishing weights.

O how I lol'd.

maybe he wanted an arm workout???

maybe he's a machine that drinks metal?

i'd fill it with quarters. that way, if you ever need to do laundry while riding, you have a bottle full of quarters with you.

or gold, because... gold, y'know?

I put lead in my drinks

I think I am riding with 5 extra pounds of pies since the weather changed.

I had a dream last night that Brian May came to my party riding a bike made of lead, which I then broke with some pliers.

^^^shastanomics ftw

I did the Trainnerroad 8 minute FTP test and scored 308W. (Trainerroad estimates my power about 50W higher than my trainer). Not sure what to do with this info except test again in 6 weeks.

Great number, most accurate in relation to subsequent tests, rather than absolute. Very sensitive to tire pressure and roller tension. If you keep those consistent every ride it should be good.

Tyre pressure was probably low and the wheel circumference was definitely wrong. My W/kg is probably less good.

Anyway, relative is much more useful than absolute. February is about intervals.

the lower the pressure, the greater the resistance, the greater the roller tension, the greater the resistance. if so, i need to put on a tubular at 160psi and like half a turn of roller tension, then i might hit 300.

LOL we are family

how do you like that tacx?

It is pretty nice, very quiet although they seem to have a few quality issues. When I first got it, the fan that cools the heatsink was installed upside down so it would over heat and beep at me. Also the clamp that holds the wheel is a nice design, poorly executed so it jams sometimes and I have to hit it about a bit to loosen it. The wireless is nice although I can't help thinking that given that the brake is generating power it would power the computer as well.

Also, updating the firmware has been a hassle. In all its a more complicated trainer than I need but it was a gift so what the hell. During updating the firmware I tried a demo of the virtual trainer software. It's not very well executed and I'm not really all that interested in competing in 3d VR bike races (also the subscription prices are stupidly high).

I should try some experiments with tyre pressure and roller tension to see if I can get trainerroad to match the trainer more closely. 50W difference seems a lot. I'd be interested to know what firmware trainload based their resistance curve on, it changes with version.

I've been doing these drills where you find a 2km stretch of 2-3% grade, then do repeats in your tallest gear (mine's 120 gear inches), staying seated, relaxed upper body (no rocking), deep breathing, but just grinding this big gear out. It's deceptively difficult because your cardio is never taxed but your legs feel completely wasted by the end.

What does that help with? (I mean, obviously it helps with strength/power, but what is it specifically useful for?)

Muscular strength and pedal stroke efficiency.

Peter

is anyone else aware of the VE method for coastdown testing of real world CdA and Crr? i am, and now im _really_ fucking pathetic. *scouts acceptable hills*

i cant figure out the embed for this, but i think i'm becoming too much like rod (and also, tt people were a fave target of derision for me when i raced bikes).

http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/blog/2011/07/tt-rider-rod-and-bikefitter-discuss-the-secret-of-speed/

jfc i'm fat now