THOSE FUCKING ENGLAND FLAGS!

Talking of music, I'm off to see Roger McGuinn tonight. Byrds, eh?

I think *all* competative sport is vile, not just football. Football is just the one that happens to interfere directly in my life the most often, and the violence associated therewith gets the most coverage.

But the "finding out anyway" is U&K - if someone tries to stamp out competition, ppl always find a way to make things competitive anyway. Apparently it's...oh there's no such thing as human nature is there.....it's....instinctive?

there's too much effort put into competing. we'd accomplish / produce more if we put the same effort into collaborating.

if competition is *human* nature then why is the majority of competitive sport so male dominated?

(it's athletics that pisses me off more than team sports - so much effort for nothing.)

(just being devil's advocate Ronan, you understand. I'm on your side really as far as this thread goes at least)

more men play sport than women as purely statistical thing? but, to generalise hideously in the name of humour, have you seen women at a Primark sale? fierce competition.

Having said that, I think people are being a bit disingenuous about Kate's objections. There's a level of aggression and testosterone watching football in stadiums and pubs that I can perfectly well see is intimidating and would not be tolerated by most in other circumstances. Now I can't stop think of Chris shouting "You dirty French cunt" at the television.

yeah but did you see the tiny little Japanese and Korean parents jumping up and down trying to get their children back from the English bastards who snatched their kids to put on their shoulders?

I often think, that as someone who claims not to be at all patriotic, I am a hypocrite for supporting the Irish football/rugby teams so strongly. I do think though at best there's a shared emotional ritual involved, and given not all the players are even Irish it's as much a matter of symbolism as actual patriotism. We want Ireland to win because they're the Irish international football team.

-- N. (nickdastoo...), September 12th, 2003

From Patriot Day

but then i watch athletics and it seems that some people think that spending hours learning to throw a pointy stick is a good use of their time. and expect grants.

> and surely there are far more negative outlets for it than watching football.

like rampaging through croydon? like the overturning of german cars after the last tournament? that to me is football *provoking* aggresive behaviour not being an outlet for it.

'I like the numpties who stick a Saint George flag out of all four of their car windows. (Their mental process tickles me: "Well, if I only have one, people might think I don't like England enough. I'll try two ... but what if they think I'm leaving the back two windows free for French flags? No, no, I need four, goddamit!")'

Well to my mind it's funny. I mean it's not as if the Swiss were neutral out of moral principals for fuck's sake! (ie they took blood money from the Nazis.)

Props to doc Baran for one of the funniest posts I have ever seen on ilx.

The violence in Croydon caused hundreds of pounds worth of improvements.

Mickey G not bad either.

That is witty, I think, of you, I mean.

Excuse me, sports fans in ENGLAND