Irish politics discussion thread

ok, so here's my question: are they just afraid of who else might rise to power if they don't vote for her (the daley model) or do they not care or did they trust her? does she appear otherwise dutiful and normal in her public appearances or is she a loose cannon type?

NI politics is a mess. None of my N. Irish friends vote because they don't feel there are any viable options for people who don't want to vote for any old nutjob along the lines of "usuns against themmuns".

There are some cross-community parties, but when I've asked if they wouldn't consider them either they're too small to get anywhere or it's "well they say they're neither this nor that but actually..." and so on. I don't know if it's true or not but there's just such ingrained suspicion/mistrust/contempt for the political system among everyone I know. Self-perpetuating, of course, but how can you break it?

I am not Northern Irish so don't really know enough to talk about this, sorry for wading in.

i am obviously not northern irish either, but this is interesting to me. people are disinclined to vote for so many reasons, and i guess i'm interested in the varying reasons people don't vote in other countries or, alternately, how such wretched people always wind up in "public service" and stay there forever.

I read a pretty interesting article once about how/why the more moderate parties on both sides had actually declined since the Good Friday agreement and the parties with previous militant associations picked up more votes, but I can't find it now. It makes sense in a way but it seems a shame that more strongly sectarian voting patterns should become even more entrenched at the same time as making such major progress.

(I do not know if the UUP are any less crazy than the DUP, but I feel bad for the SDLP losing ground)

(Confession: seeing as Northern Irish partner and his friends aren't interested in politics chat, I get most of it from the banter on the NI music scene forum, which I thought had been strangely silent on this issue until just there now when I realised the epic 19-page thread on the front page entitled "Iris / Adultery" was not in fact promoting a two-band bill of doomtastic post-metal sounds)

I am always a bit suspicious of supposedly moderate Nornies and their disdain for cross-community parties.

The Slugger O'Toole blog is meant to be good for people who are interested in politics Up There.

The GFA entrenched a system whereby to win votes you had to be from one or other community. It arguably then makes sense to compete on the basis of being the party best qualified to stick it to the other community.

Disdain for cross-community parties seems weird/frustrating to me too but if I'd grown up to be so suspicious of politicians' motives I'd probably feel it too.

Plus I am well aware that e.g. there are things I think I know about the Tories that can't be learnt from looking at their website, so if someone tells English old me that I don't know the full story about a NI party, I have to agree that I probably don't, and that the background renders misunderstandings potentially nastier over there.

I look at Slugger O'Toole occasionally and it's usually worth a read, if sometimes hard for an outsider to unpack, yes.

Did the wording of the GFA specifically entrench this system? I agree that it has become further entrenched since the GFA. (Genuine question, would like to read more about how it happened)

i couldn't really even think of participating in a conversation about this scandal on a political level, but on a personal level it's fascinating.

The GFA required parties in the NI Assembly to designate themselves as Nationalist or Unionist, and it requires the First Minister to be from the majority community and the Deputy First Minister to be from the minority, with both being elected on one slate that has to win in both communities.

I think when the DUP were against the Agreement they experimented with tactically declaring themselves Nationalists to cause trouble, but were blocked from doing this... am I remebering this right?

what kind of 19 year old gets described as an "entrepreneur"?

the kind that doesn't call himself a gigolo?

have we done the blasphemy law yet?

doctor doctor my eye hurts

there's something in your iris

dr dr my eye hurts

you've been crying excessively because you've discovered your wife is fucking the paperboy. And paid for it.

"There can be no viler act, apart from homosexuality and sodomy, than sexually abusing innocent children."

Oh, I hope there was sodomy involved with that guy.

Inquiry into the causes of the financial/banking crisis to take place behind closed doors.

Genuinely, is there anyone out there with experience in carrying out a political coup? Bloodless if possible, but the alternative will work also in a pinch.

According to the Irish Times at the moment Gormley is 200 votes ahead (so my vote worked!)

you are part of the problem

George Lee resigns from FG and Dáil Eireann

GET THEM OUT

feel a wee bit sorry for G. Lee... also feel like there's a bit of a messiah complex going on here.

Based on the initial public reaction it seems like this is pretty bad news for FG, which I'm totally fine with, so long as FF don't benefit...

inital public reaction is gonna change the more lee speaks. messiah complex is starting to look more and more appropriate- head of various economic policy task forces and committees, about to be offered a place on the front bench next week (and aware of this) but he quits complaining that he hasn't been able to dictate economic policy. to the opposition party he joined 9 months ago.

it's bad news for enda, certainly, but really if this is the extent of the guy's problems then he's a fucking idiot, has proven himself to be style over substance and has lost a lot of credibility for when he does crawl back to the job he stated publicly wouldn't be held for him last year before he was elected.

what odds a labour taoiseach?

inital public reaction is gonna change the more lee speaks.

probably right. his appearance on joe duffy had me squirming with embarrassment... jd was pressing him on what particular policies/principles had been rejected / ignored by FG, lee refused to be drawn which just makes no fucking sense to me. i do think he is a fucking idiot. kind of beautiful that he's still on leave of absence from RTE! maybe it was all an undercover thing for prime time...

don't know/care enough about FG's internal politics to guess at what this means for enda kenny as opposed to the wider party, but the party line seems steady for the moment, EK expressing presidential "regret" while Varadkar etc put the boot in.

a labour taoiseach eh? that would really be something. definitely seems like it's their time to shine. i'd personally like to see them stop courting coalition partners (so not gonna happen tho).

Ah no Lab needs FG. but even though they'll get in (please god they'll get in FFS) as a junior party in a coalition i can't see FG coming up with a Taoiseach. Enda will be gone before then, (though I'm really unsure who's placed to take over) and will be president before 2020.

never had much time for willie o'dea, but his comment on this was A+-

"George Lee was like FG's bidet- he gave them a touch of class but they didn't know what to do with him"

I very much doubt there will be a Labour Taoiseach unless they win more seats than FG, which is not very likely.

While it's a given that FG will have more seats, I'm not at all sure that they'll have a candidate for the top job. At the moment they're not sure that they even have a candidate for party leader to challenge the non-endaty

They will have a party leader, and whoever that is will be their candidate for the top job.

I know other countries sometimes see premiers from junior coalition parties, but it has never happened here, so it would be a real leap. We have only ever had one premier who was not leader of the largest coalition party, and even he was a TD of that party. So I reckon the premiership is in FG's gift, assuming they are the largest party in the next government (which may mean assuming that Labour does not coalesce with the soldiers of destiny again).

can't see labour breaking at the moment, but there's a serious dearth of ideas/profile/challengers in FG at the moment- I just see Gilmore as a much more taoiseachy prospect. maybe i'm just a crazy dreamer.

would love labour to be the senior partner, btw. FG don't deserve to lead a government, they've been little but a FF reserve outfit the past 20 years.

Mmmm yeah, but no real sign of Labour passing FG or FF any time soon.

maybe i'm just a crazy dreamer

maybe you are.

I'm actually holding out for the new party that Michael McDowell is reputedly about to launch.

anything that stretches out the margins a bit would maybe be welcome?

alternatively, any party with policies* as opposed to reactions to headlines would be a victory worth taking the week off work for.

* not the green party thanks they're imbeciles..

Angry Enda is maybe more embarrassing than corrupt Bertie.

fg=ff basically we are going to hell no matter what happens imo

LABOUR TAOISEACH MAAAAAN

get that sad sack face off and let's make this shit happen imo

yah like thats how i vote but its not srsly gonna happen anytime soon lets call a spade a spade

it will happen. there will soon be no alternative, post-enda breakdown, post FF unelectable.

yah, also kill all old ppl and creepy young ff types

plenty tossers in labour too as far as i recall

plenty fuckerz generally iirc

not voting for fuckers is impossible, so vote them out regularly and at least the brighter fuckers will eventually get the message that you're watching them reeeall closely.

"I am a victim here too"

http://evertb.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/willie.jpg

D'you think if we told the wider ILX about this guy they'd even believe us?

Who is he?

he is our minister for defence, and the govt are fully behind him.

He told a local newspaper that a local councillor in his constituency had involvement in running a brothel, then submitted a sworn statement denying this in the ensuing defamation case. Despite being on tape. He's actually pretty representative of his party, the majority member of govt.

I uh...I realise that may be disappointingly bland after the pic.

yeah this fucking guy

pretty much the go to guy in limerick iirc and and a living testament to how ff r just a racket

also genuinely a freaky looking dude. just....no

remember q's outside my village local of people looking for favours from Papa Willie back in the 80's

'shure idnt he a self taught barrister, fair play to him!'

^^yeah, same old last time i checked in that pub i can never remember the name of