Chicago: Beef, Love and Understanding

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What's wrong with your computer, Amanda?

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link

having to be judged to get inside.

Huh? We're on the list.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link

I agree with that, too, Dan -- but the thrust of her article seems to be, "Waaah, caring about what you eat is SO HARD."

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link

The author doesn't do very well at getting her point across, but I agree with much of the article.

― Jeff, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:54 (seventeen years ago) link

What do you agree with exactly?

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Me too, it seems that she is complaining about the people who take the simple concept of caring about what you eat and mutate it into some kind of holier than thou rockism-style BS.

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Somebody take pics tonight pls.

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:57 (seventeen years ago) link

PLZ x 10

― chicago kevin, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Whatever. It rubbed me the wrong way. Viz. "The Omnivore's Dilemma is impractical, because I'm too lazy to actually read it."

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Martha Bayne agrees with me.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I am in a doctor's waiting room, waiting for him to tell me that my diet is total shit and my health is going to hell fast, so I'm a little disinclined to agree with someone who's too lazy to read a book. Jesus, how did he work up the motivation to write that article?

― kenan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Guys, just a wild guess, but I think "Emily Nunn" is a woman.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Maybe she did read the book, but is writing about it with the point of view of "normal people" in mind -- people who maybe won't read it because it has no practical application to their lifestyle or living situaion? (Viz. "it didn't really seem to have all that many answers for the mainstream population, now less popularly known as "poor people.")

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:18 (seventeen years ago) link

I haven't read it, either, but it's next in my queue (my dad just gave me his copy), so I'll see if that's true or not. Anyway, she read part of the book and skimmed the rest because she's "cynical and lazy." Truly the mark of a curious, inquisitive journalist.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link

big DUD, I find them less than spectacular.

Jeff on Monday, April 30, 2001 7:00 PM (5 years ago)

Is this you, Jeff (on the recently revived Dismemberment Plan thread on ILM)?

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:22 (seventeen years ago) link

yes, i found that earlier too.

I like them now.

― Jeff, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Again, can you see "cynical and lazy" as her trying to speak for the bulk of the population of the country? Like "put this important information in some terms everyone can understand and appreciate instead of being snobby about it and making them feel like they're being talked down to"?

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:24 (seventeen years ago) link

(The Plan was great live)

― KitCat, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:25 (seventeen years ago) link

(My sister's Masters research is about this same sort of topic, wrt soy products and their marketing/branding practices and how that effects who buys the products)

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I luv the Plan.

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:25 (seventeen years ago) link

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I wonder... Do you think people buy things like veggie burgers mostly because they were already following a vegetarian lifestlye and came upon them or do you think there is a significant number of people just buying them to supposedly have one slightly healthier meal than usual?

― KitCat, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I think what she's ultimately saying is that she doesn't WANT to understand and appreciate these books, because she wants to keep on living blissfully ignorant of what she consumes.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:29 (seventeen years ago) link

(This is Nick posting at Sarah's work) I still think "Emergency & I" is one of the great indie rock albums.

― KitCat, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:29 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost Jordan eats veggie burgers, doesn't he?

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:29 (seventeen years ago) link

All veggie burgers are not that healthy.

― Jeff, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Some, not all. Some are healthy!

― Jeff, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:30 (seventeen years ago) link

and some are tasty even.

― Jeff, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:30 (seventeen years ago) link

I never ate veggie burgers until recently, and now I eat them just because they're healthy and quick to make. They're especially healthier than real burgers.

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Jeff pls give examples of healthy/not healthy v. burgers

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:32 (seventeen years ago) link

(v = vagina)

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Vagina joke kills thread.

I'm only skimming that ILM "smarter" thread but it's making me nostalgic (this on top of the first post thing today).

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I think what she's ultimately saying is that she doesn't WANT to understand and appreciate these books, because she wants to keep on living blissfully ignorant of what she consumes.

I don't. I think she is saying that the message of the books is inherently good, but the delivery of the message is put in such terms as to polarize people and provoke strong reactions that are not helping the overall cause (i.e. either becoming some kind of nazi about food or rejecting the principles because of percieved arrogance/impracticality). But, who knows. Maybe a letter to the editor is in order?

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:38 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm having trouble forming coherent thoughts today, but I should have clarified that some are healthier than others when comparing them against other veggie burgers. You may find some that have at least 3 grams more fat per serving that another kind. The Boca original vegan are usually the lowest in fat and calories.

I don't really eat them any more though. I'm having my own little meat renaissance. I can't get enough.

― Jeff, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Just because someone eats meat does not mean that they don't eat vegetarian meals, ie veggie burgers.
I am not a vegetarian, but I would say that I eat like one 2/3 of the time. The other 1/3 of the time I am eating bacon.

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:41 (seventeen years ago) link

I guess some veggie burgers are laced with frozen cheese and such. Although any kind of veggie burger is going to have less fat/calories than most other meals I might eat (pizza, meat burgers, tacos, huge amounts of Indian or Thai food, etc.).

Meat Renaissance would be a good name for an album.

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:43 (seventeen years ago) link

That's what was weird about your co-worker, Sarah -- acting like the only alternative to eating meat was, like, yogurt and rice cakes. You don't even have to eat veggie burgers, either. You can eat enormous bean burritos, or spinach lasagna, or cheese pizza.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:45 (seventeen years ago) link

I tend to resist overthinking/overdiscussing food too, like Dan was saying -- there's a certain amount of anti-foodist in me that can't take it when someone asks if my spinach is organic or my chicken is free range and looks askance at me when it's not. FFS, it's not KFC, leave me alone.

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:47 (seventeen years ago) link

These are my favorite veggie burgers:

http://www.pdtfoods.org/products/images/californiaburger.gif

However, they're very much of the mashed-veggies variety rather than the fake-meat variety. I tried sauteeing some onions a couple weeks ago to put on top, and it didn't have the big hearty taste I was hoping for.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:48 (seventeen years ago) link

I just tried some new Indian-style "masala" veggie burgers from TJs and they look like potato cakes. I didn't eat one yet but D said they were "ok."

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:49 (seventeen years ago) link

ps jaymc your onions were old. you have to sautee them right away, not a couple of weeks in advance.

harhar

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:50 (seventeen years ago) link

pps i hope you guys have a ragin' good time at the booty bar tonight.

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:51 (seventeen years ago) link

there's a certain amount of anti-foodist in me that can't take it when someone asks if my spinach is organic or my chicken is free range and looks askance at me when it's not

I would get frustrated at questions like this, too, but I'm happy to say I've rarely encountered them. I'll also add that I've never read Fast Food Nation, so I don't know how much of it carries a polemical "shame on you for eating fast food!!" taint. I do think that some meat eaters think they're being scolded about their dietary choices when they're not.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm still sad that TJ's stopped carrying SOY NUGGETS.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I am w/ John on this article. The opening salvo describing a vegetarian hippy who leaves his dog outside the library kills her cred right out of the box. I can no patience or respect for the "Vegetarianism is stupid because some vegetarians also eat Snickers bars and wear leather shoes" argument. THAT is lazy logic.

Kenan, does your doctor have the internet in her waiting room?

― Jenny, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Fast Food Nation is more about damning the corporations behind fast food (and big agribusiness) than about scolding people for eating it.

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:53 (seventeen years ago) link

So then the only person whom she's actually arguing against is some dumb friend of hers who raises his eyebrows when she drinks non-organic milk?

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:56 (seventeen years ago) link

I did not read this article, btw, since my computer died as I was linking to it. I am at the office now for Friday Night Duty.

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Are you going to get a new computer? Did it die of natural causes?

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, USians DO need to be mindful of what they eat, and the "Nutrional Indudstrial Complex" IS fucked up, and getting more fucked up every day. People get touchy about their eating habits, but that's no kind of good argument against books like FFN or the Omnivore's Dilemma. If you're eating fast food every day and buying Lunchables for the kids, that's a problem on a lot of levels. If someone reads a book like Fast Food Nation and thinks, "HOW PREACHY! I'm going to eat at Taco Bell every day forever and ever" instead of "That's fucked up. Maybe I should put more thought into what I'm eating," then I can't imagine any sort of method of information conveyance that wouldn't have the same "off putting" effect.

― Jenny, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:58 (seventeen years ago) link

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