Chicago: Beef, Love and Understanding

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Maybe she did read the book, but is writing about it with the point of view of "normal people" in mind -- people who maybe won't read it because it has no practical application to their lifestyle or living situaion? (Viz. "it didn't really seem to have all that many answers for the mainstream population, now less popularly known as "poor people.")

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:18 (seventeen years ago) link

I haven't read it, either, but it's next in my queue (my dad just gave me his copy), so I'll see if that's true or not. Anyway, she read part of the book and skimmed the rest because she's "cynical and lazy." Truly the mark of a curious, inquisitive journalist.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:21 (seventeen years ago) link

big DUD, I find them less than spectacular.

Jeff on Monday, April 30, 2001 7:00 PM (5 years ago)

Is this you, Jeff (on the recently revived Dismemberment Plan thread on ILM)?

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:22 (seventeen years ago) link

yes, i found that earlier too.

I like them now.

― Jeff, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Again, can you see "cynical and lazy" as her trying to speak for the bulk of the population of the country? Like "put this important information in some terms everyone can understand and appreciate instead of being snobby about it and making them feel like they're being talked down to"?

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:24 (seventeen years ago) link

(The Plan was great live)

― KitCat, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:25 (seventeen years ago) link

(My sister's Masters research is about this same sort of topic, wrt soy products and their marketing/branding practices and how that effects who buys the products)

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I luv the Plan.

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:25 (seventeen years ago) link

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I wonder... Do you think people buy things like veggie burgers mostly because they were already following a vegetarian lifestlye and came upon them or do you think there is a significant number of people just buying them to supposedly have one slightly healthier meal than usual?

― KitCat, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I think what she's ultimately saying is that she doesn't WANT to understand and appreciate these books, because she wants to keep on living blissfully ignorant of what she consumes.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:29 (seventeen years ago) link

(This is Nick posting at Sarah's work) I still think "Emergency & I" is one of the great indie rock albums.

― KitCat, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:29 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost Jordan eats veggie burgers, doesn't he?

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:29 (seventeen years ago) link

All veggie burgers are not that healthy.

― Jeff, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Some, not all. Some are healthy!

― Jeff, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:30 (seventeen years ago) link

and some are tasty even.

― Jeff, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:30 (seventeen years ago) link

I never ate veggie burgers until recently, and now I eat them just because they're healthy and quick to make. They're especially healthier than real burgers.

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Jeff pls give examples of healthy/not healthy v. burgers

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:32 (seventeen years ago) link

(v = vagina)

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Vagina joke kills thread.

I'm only skimming that ILM "smarter" thread but it's making me nostalgic (this on top of the first post thing today).

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I think what she's ultimately saying is that she doesn't WANT to understand and appreciate these books, because she wants to keep on living blissfully ignorant of what she consumes.

I don't. I think she is saying that the message of the books is inherently good, but the delivery of the message is put in such terms as to polarize people and provoke strong reactions that are not helping the overall cause (i.e. either becoming some kind of nazi about food or rejecting the principles because of percieved arrogance/impracticality). But, who knows. Maybe a letter to the editor is in order?

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:38 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm having trouble forming coherent thoughts today, but I should have clarified that some are healthier than others when comparing them against other veggie burgers. You may find some that have at least 3 grams more fat per serving that another kind. The Boca original vegan are usually the lowest in fat and calories.

I don't really eat them any more though. I'm having my own little meat renaissance. I can't get enough.

― Jeff, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Just because someone eats meat does not mean that they don't eat vegetarian meals, ie veggie burgers.
I am not a vegetarian, but I would say that I eat like one 2/3 of the time. The other 1/3 of the time I am eating bacon.

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:41 (seventeen years ago) link

I guess some veggie burgers are laced with frozen cheese and such. Although any kind of veggie burger is going to have less fat/calories than most other meals I might eat (pizza, meat burgers, tacos, huge amounts of Indian or Thai food, etc.).

Meat Renaissance would be a good name for an album.

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:43 (seventeen years ago) link

That's what was weird about your co-worker, Sarah -- acting like the only alternative to eating meat was, like, yogurt and rice cakes. You don't even have to eat veggie burgers, either. You can eat enormous bean burritos, or spinach lasagna, or cheese pizza.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:45 (seventeen years ago) link

I tend to resist overthinking/overdiscussing food too, like Dan was saying -- there's a certain amount of anti-foodist in me that can't take it when someone asks if my spinach is organic or my chicken is free range and looks askance at me when it's not. FFS, it's not KFC, leave me alone.

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:47 (seventeen years ago) link

These are my favorite veggie burgers:

http://www.pdtfoods.org/products/images/californiaburger.gif

However, they're very much of the mashed-veggies variety rather than the fake-meat variety. I tried sauteeing some onions a couple weeks ago to put on top, and it didn't have the big hearty taste I was hoping for.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:48 (seventeen years ago) link

I just tried some new Indian-style "masala" veggie burgers from TJs and they look like potato cakes. I didn't eat one yet but D said they were "ok."

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:49 (seventeen years ago) link

ps jaymc your onions were old. you have to sautee them right away, not a couple of weeks in advance.

harhar

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:50 (seventeen years ago) link

pps i hope you guys have a ragin' good time at the booty bar tonight.

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:51 (seventeen years ago) link

there's a certain amount of anti-foodist in me that can't take it when someone asks if my spinach is organic or my chicken is free range and looks askance at me when it's not

I would get frustrated at questions like this, too, but I'm happy to say I've rarely encountered them. I'll also add that I've never read Fast Food Nation, so I don't know how much of it carries a polemical "shame on you for eating fast food!!" taint. I do think that some meat eaters think they're being scolded about their dietary choices when they're not.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm still sad that TJ's stopped carrying SOY NUGGETS.

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I am w/ John on this article. The opening salvo describing a vegetarian hippy who leaves his dog outside the library kills her cred right out of the box. I can no patience or respect for the "Vegetarianism is stupid because some vegetarians also eat Snickers bars and wear leather shoes" argument. THAT is lazy logic.

Kenan, does your doctor have the internet in her waiting room?

― Jenny, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Fast Food Nation is more about damning the corporations behind fast food (and big agribusiness) than about scolding people for eating it.

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:53 (seventeen years ago) link

So then the only person whom she's actually arguing against is some dumb friend of hers who raises his eyebrows when she drinks non-organic milk?

― jaymc, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:56 (seventeen years ago) link

I did not read this article, btw, since my computer died as I was linking to it. I am at the office now for Friday Night Duty.

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Are you going to get a new computer? Did it die of natural causes?

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, USians DO need to be mindful of what they eat, and the "Nutrional Indudstrial Complex" IS fucked up, and getting more fucked up every day. People get touchy about their eating habits, but that's no kind of good argument against books like FFN or the Omnivore's Dilemma. If you're eating fast food every day and buying Lunchables for the kids, that's a problem on a lot of levels. If someone reads a book like Fast Food Nation and thinks, "HOW PREACHY! I'm going to eat at Taco Bell every day forever and ever" instead of "That's fucked up. Maybe I should put more thought into what I'm eating," then I can't imagine any sort of method of information conveyance that wouldn't have the same "off putting" effect.

― Jenny, Friday, 2 March 2007 22:58 (seventeen years ago) link

I do not feel that way about FFN at all - it was informative and I think I've recommended it to like 10 people who eat too much fast food. I have not read the Omnivore's Dilemma.

My computer died for unknown reasons. I don't know what we're going to do about it. The warranty expired SIX WEEKS AGO. Fuckers.

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 23:00 (seventeen years ago) link

notes on ketchup packets

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 23:01 (seventeen years ago) link

That said, I'm not going to scoff at someone for not drinking organic milk, especially if that person is socio-politically aware and not avoiding organic/healthy food out of some twisted sense of intentionally dense pride. I AM going to scoff at someone who buys Lunchables (the evil foodstuff I personally love to hate) because OMG have you ever read the ingredients on those things? They aren't food! And the packaging! MAMA MIA!

― Jenny, Friday, 2 March 2007 23:01 (seventeen years ago) link

I guess I feel like I eat pretty f-ing healthily and for someone to tell me that I need to eat even MORE healthily makes me want to tell them to eat recycled cardboard.

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 23:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Worst lunchable ever: "taco bell"

Contains tube of "meat"

― La Lechera, Friday, 2 March 2007 23:02 (seventeen years ago) link

If it's not obvious, none of this is directed at anyone here, especially Amanda, whose eating habits I seriously and honestly strive to emulate. So healthy! So interesting! So home cooked!

― Jenny, Friday, 2 March 2007 23:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Really, you thought it was scolding? I didn't get that impression at all.

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 23:03 (seventeen years ago) link

recycled cardboard = not so healthy

― Laurel, Friday, 2 March 2007 23:03 (seventeen years ago) link

lunchables? more like lunchdisables!

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 23:03 (seventeen years ago) link

xpostoramalamadingdong!

― Jenny, Friday, 2 March 2007 23:03 (seventeen years ago) link

more like lunchaDON'TS!

― Jordan, Friday, 2 March 2007 23:03 (seventeen years ago) link

(I know it's pretty much been said 900000x already but: no xpost notification ate my balls)

― dan m, Friday, 2 March 2007 23:04 (seventeen years ago) link

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