I still love and respect all of you and your opinions, though!
― 100% Nice (nordicskilla), Saturday, 1 October 2005 14:55 (eighteen years ago) link
not very. The sex scenes actually had both of us laughing out loud!
― 100% Nice (nordicskilla), Saturday, 1 October 2005 14:57 (eighteen years ago) link
I loved the film. The acting is certainly not wooden: in the case of Viggo Mortenson, he makes the transitions between cornfed Midwesterner and gangsta like a pro I never expected him to be. Maria Bello quivers and rages with an intensity she's never quite shown before (her greatest moment: the look of disgust she gives Mortenson after their tryst on the stairs). As for William Hurt - well. Talk about a pro. If this had been a play, I would have given him a standing ovation. His ham-on-rye performance summons the pity, terror, and comedy that the film's schematic, over-explicit script (its weakest element) wants us to understand.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 1 October 2005 19:45 (eighteen years ago) link
Cronenberg's work with sex and gore are pretty consistent. This film doesn't try too hard to shock or make a bold statement, but places it right in the middle of the completely ordinary. I don't see it as some sort of artistic contrast or shocking "My god, there is weird shit among this normal town," it's just kind of... there. And people have to deal with it. Seriously, if the film was filled with "You must deal with these things you've been through! You're tearing this family apart!"-style arguments filled with a rising in the score, it'd be every other schlocky film.
― mike h. (mike h.), Saturday, 1 October 2005 20:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― huell howser (chaki), Saturday, 1 October 2005 20:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 1 October 2005 20:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― huell howser (chaki), Saturday, 1 October 2005 20:44 (eighteen years ago) link
He was marvelous. I especially loved the scene in which he blasted Ed Harris with the double-barrelled shotgun. He looks at his father with the creepiest mixture of contempt, love, and fear.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 1 October 2005 20:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― huell howser (chaki), Saturday, 1 October 2005 20:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Sunday, 2 October 2005 02:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Sunday, 2 October 2005 02:14 (eighteen years ago) link
The teenage son was great, by the way.
the pastiche of hunky dory domesticity was so over-the-top hollow that it was tough for me to take (so many lines in the early going -- the script was horrible)
Sure. Very true, and interesting that it got less hollow and wooden as it progressed. I suppose Cronenberg could have tried to find a way to not play it this way at the beginning, but didn't do so. I read that it was a work for hire so he probably looked at this kinda awful and generic Hollywood script and thought, now what can be done with this?
― dar1a g (daria g), Sunday, 2 October 2005 17:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― dave k, Sunday, 2 October 2005 18:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― firstworldman (firstworldman), Sunday, 2 October 2005 22:18 (eighteen years ago) link
as for the sex scenes, i thought they were handled very well... i actually thought they were totally erotic. some douchebag in front of me was taking camera phone pix though and after putting up with it for about 15 seconds i leaned forward in my chair and said in his ear quite loudly, "Put your phone down." apart from that distraction, which well and truly took me out of the movie, i thought the sex scenes were great. maria bello and viggo mortensen are both very sexy, sexual seeming people. i thought that when maria bello said 'we never got a chance to be teenagers together', she didn't mean it to be serious. she meant it as an enigmatic setup to a fantasy that she had always wanted to live out. the sex scene on the stairway is a surprisingly common fantasy among a lot of women. to be raped safely by someone who loves you. this was obviously a little bit removed from that, but it did have the added notion of just being another role playing exercise. i don't know how to get into the mechanics of explaining it, but i've been with girls who have fantasized about that. danger/thrills are sexy to most people.
the scene with william hurt was hilarious... for some reason, the setup actually reminded me a little bit of the cremaster thing in the guggenheim... sort of similarly videogame-esque.
and to end it the way this ended, knowing that a happy ending would probably come eventually, but not feeling the need to go on any longer showing it happen, left it feeling very real and honest.
and other thoughts....
― firstworldman (firstworldman), Sunday, 2 October 2005 22:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― ----------, Sunday, 2 October 2005 22:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― firstworldman (firstworldman), Sunday, 2 October 2005 22:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Sunday, 2 October 2005 23:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― melton mowbray (adr), Sunday, 2 October 2005 23:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 3 October 2005 00:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Monday, 3 October 2005 00:19 (eighteen years ago) link
I've seen every movie of note he's made in the last 20 years, except for M. Butterfly.
― 100% Nice (nordicskilla), Monday, 3 October 2005 01:19 (eighteen years ago) link
Did I mention I also hated Sin City?
Magnum Force is a'ight.
― 100% Nice (nordicskilla), Monday, 3 October 2005 01:29 (eighteen years ago) link
...
― 100% Nice (nordicskilla), Monday, 3 October 2005 01:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 3 October 2005 01:36 (eighteen years ago) link
I sure am! Both Dirty Work and the Cronenberg film are agreeably superficial examinations of violence.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 3 October 2005 10:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 12:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― sfxxx, Tuesday, 4 October 2005 12:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 12:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 12:49 (eighteen years ago) link
Also, they should have just tried to hire Adam Brody as the son rather than getting someone with the same mannerisms and the same hair.
― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 15:02 (eighteen years ago) link
This is true.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 15:12 (eighteen years ago) link
2) How the fuck did this POSSIBLY get an R rating?? Surely that's some of the most graphic violence ever seen onscreen (I lean towards the notion that the gore is dwelled on to emphasize the range of emotions that can be conjured by such extreme violence - horror, disgust, shock - then awed laughter - then back to disgust). I mean, "Ichi the Killer" is one thing, but I thought this was much more intense.
3) I was also sort of surprised by the first sex scene - is there another instance of two lead characters in a flagrant, fairly graphic 69 in a mainstream movie ever?
― Stuck to a Seat in the New Beverly (Bent Over at the Arclight), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― 400% Nice (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 18:04 (eighteen years ago) link
hardly
― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 18:05 (eighteen years ago) link
xp
― 400% Nice (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 18:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 20:20 (eighteen years ago) link
HOTT
― 400% Nice (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 20:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 20:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― dan (dan), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 20:49 (eighteen years ago) link
Ach, I was using a bit of poetic licence here. With some hindsight, I think the main problem is the family dynamic. I do think there is something in the use the use of a "smalltown America" construct. It is supposed to imply universality, even if the majority of the audience for this film will be childless people who live in major urban centers. There is nothing exceptional about these characters at the beginning of the film, and we're supposed to identify with them, but we're also asked to laugh at them as well as fear for them.. It's totally flawed.
On top of that, all of the characters who make up the family seem totally disparate, their reactions to each other follow no discernible pattern of emotional logic and our understanding/enjoyment of the film is key to seeing them as a family unit, even before we can see them as compromised or fragmented or in danger.
― 400% Nice (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― 400% Nice (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:05 (eighteen years ago) link
Sometimes a tear is just a tear!
― 400% Nice (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― 400% Nice (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― 400% Nice (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:17 (eighteen years ago) link
the last scene reminded me of something but I can't remember what.
― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― 400% Nice (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:20 (eighteen years ago) link
I don't think I really get Cronenberg as a director. Though I did love Spider. There's some kind of deliberate thinness or something to his style. In my head I think it's a Canadian thing.
― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 4 October 2005 21:21 (eighteen years ago) link