the current situation isn’t what Arabs had envisaged
due diligence lacking here
― Aimless, Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:29 (thirteen years ago) link
ruh-roh capitalism: http://ibnlive.in.com/news/libya-says-may-give-oil-deals-to-china-india/146528-2.html
― I *\m/* metal soooo much (history mayne), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:31 (thirteen years ago) link
dont think these guys are bombing anyone (despite defence cutbacks)
http://static.ibnlive.com/pix/slideshow/03-2011/in-pics-libya/libya_unrest_coverpic1.jpg
Right after a meeting of world leaders over action on Libya, in Paris, French jets were seen flying over Libya.
― Romford Spring (DG), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:34 (thirteen years ago) link
status quo is shit, oppressive etc like most/all modern top-down government but what is western capitalism if not opportunistic
― WD-40 (acoleuthic), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:35 (thirteen years ago) link
quite liked 'rockin' all over the world' myself
― Romford Spring (DG), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:36 (thirteen years ago) link
status quo is shit, oppressive etc like most/all modern top-down government but what is western capitalism if not opportunistic― WD-40 (acoleuthic), Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:35 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
― WD-40 (acoleuthic), Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:35 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
when you think about it, top-down governments are all pretty much the same...
― I *\m/* metal soooo much (history mayne), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:39 (thirteen years ago) link
lj my sympathies to some degree lie with you here but you gotta realize this is like arguing about manowar with algerian goalkeeper
― HOOStory is back. Fasten your steenbelts. (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:41 (thirteen years ago) link
opinions will remain steadfast and you just look as the guy who continues arguing with algerian goalkeeper
― HOOStory is back. Fasten your steenbelts. (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:42 (thirteen years ago) link
get on my level
― I *\m/* metal soooo much (history mayne), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:42 (thirteen years ago) link
lol
also 'world capitalism' is kind of a lol phrase tbh
― HOOStory is back. Fasten your steenbelts. (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:44 (thirteen years ago) link
if the kids are united they'll never be divided
― Romford Spring (DG), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:46 (thirteen years ago) link
you do realize I have slept 3 hours since fucking 2 days ago, taken narcotics and units of alcohol into the tens in the meantime and am now writing 27 pages for someone's fucking management studies course
not that the man can't kiss my arse when I'm sober and rested
― WD-40 (acoleuthic), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:47 (thirteen years ago) link
everyone read david c korten's shit btw, he's the don
peace
― WD-40 (acoleuthic), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:48 (thirteen years ago) link
you need to meet a nice girl
― Ismael Klata, Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:49 (thirteen years ago) link
will do in an hour when I wake her up
god when will this fucking project end, someone make a new board again, keep me entertained
― WD-40 (acoleuthic), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:52 (thirteen years ago) link
i'll go start 'i love status quo'
― Romford Spring (DG), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:53 (thirteen years ago) link
nah dogg you always be talking funny like this it seems. listen to a hoos
― kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:54 (thirteen years ago) link
suggest 'i love dongles' for the ilx IT crowd. would hold finite possibilities for lj, tho
― Aimless, Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:55 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/NewAnswersControllerServlet?boardid=47
― Romford Spring (DG), Sunday, 20 March 2011 17:56 (thirteen years ago) link
anyway the french are at it again
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12800635
there's a 'USS Barry'?
― Romford Spring (DG), Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:00 (thirteen years ago) link
and am now writing 27 pages for someone's fucking management studies course
ooh, someones's smashing capitalism
― I *\m/* metal soooo much (history mayne), Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:19 (thirteen years ago) link
anyway jokes but i'd probably a BIT more cautious with the neo-neo-con shtick if the objectively-pro-gafaffi crew weren't such stinkers or, like louis, incoherent
― I *\m/* metal soooo much (history mayne), Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:22 (thirteen years ago) link
judging from newsnight the other night stwc got literally tens of mutants out to their little do
― Romford Spring (DG), Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:25 (thirteen years ago) link
you do realize I have slept 3 hours since fucking 2 days ago, taken narcotics and units of alcohol into the tens in the meantime and am now writing 27 pages for someone's fucking management studies coursenot that the man can't kiss my arse when I'm sober and rested
You are a terrible person who should probably stop using the Internet, fyi
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:29 (thirteen years ago) link
why would anyone have any reason to "realize" this
― lowfat dry milquetoast (WmC), Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:36 (thirteen years ago) link
his tumblr was pretty explicit
― Kerm, Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:38 (thirteen years ago) link
he's also eaten a mess of peppercorns
― I *\m/* metal soooo much (history mayne), Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:41 (thirteen years ago) link
#jaggerblood
― Kerm, Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:41 (thirteen years ago) link
omg lol
― VegemiteGrrl, Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:41 (thirteen years ago) link
milo z you are such a hardass and I am in no way pro-gadaffi
― WD-40 (acoleuthic), Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:42 (thirteen years ago) link
― Kerm, Sunday, March 20, 2011 1:38 PM (3 minutes ago)
ah, the extra nugget that presumes a degree of gives-a-shit...it's always in there somewhere, like the baby in the king cake
― lowfat dry milquetoast (WmC), Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:43 (thirteen years ago) link
I am in no way pro-gadaffi― WD-40 (acoleuthic), Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:42 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
― WD-40 (acoleuthic), Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:42 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
'objectively' boo
― I *\m/* metal soooo much (history mayne), Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:44 (thirteen years ago) link
anyway, when ppl insult others they're just mirroring insecurities they have about themselves, so I'll assure milo he's cool to keep posting by me although maybe lay off the 'god my ex is such an alcoholic slut/prise it out of my cold dead hands' posturing
WmC your inability to detect my swagalicious register is upsetting
wish I had more time to post about resource-based economies and holistic universe-energy shit, just gonna say that empirical paradigms and debt economies suck and leave it at that
― WD-40 (acoleuthic), Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:47 (thirteen years ago) link
wish I had more time to post about resource-based economies and holistic universe-energy shit, just gonna say that empirical paradigms and debt economies suck and leave it at that― WD-40 (acoleuthic), Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:47 PM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark
― WD-40 (acoleuthic), Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:47 PM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark
right... ok. so, about libya.
― I *\m/* metal soooo much (history mayne), Sunday, 20 March 2011 18:49 (thirteen years ago) link
never gets up to full speed and very slow on the turn
― utterfilth (whatever), Sunday, 20 March 2011 19:14 (thirteen years ago) link
Doesn't request authorization from Congressional leaders on deck getting sun tans.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 20 March 2011 19:18 (thirteen years ago) link
lol greenwald never change:
How, then, can Obama's campaign position possibly be reconciled with his ordering military action in Libya without Congressional approval (something, it should be said, he has not yet done)?
― difficult listening hour, Sunday, 20 March 2011 19:57 (thirteen years ago) link
seems like the western allies here are making a fairly conventional gamble - assist with the toppling of the current regime and the subsequent regime will be beholden to us/more likely to act in our interests. this has worked out pretty reliably in the past. real question is how long will it take to knock of Qawdawfi
― Hyper Rescue Troop (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, 20 March 2011 20:01 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm pretty sure that, as president, it's "no way imma wait for those dithering fuckwads to approve this!"
― Aimless, Sunday, 20 March 2011 20:02 (thirteen years ago) link
Pretty much how I feel. Most of the people I'm reading or talking to who are in favour of intervention are cautious, conflicted and took a while to weigh up the options - most of those against are "It's all about oil, Milosevic was a sweetheart, blah". A generalisation maybe but I at least I can be sure of one thing: Neil Clark is a joke.
― Pop is superior to all other genres (DL), Sunday, 20 March 2011 20:15 (thirteen years ago) link
was kinda hoping for a 'uss dave' or a 'uss terry' or something
― Romford Spring (DG), Sunday, 20 March 2011 20:22 (thirteen years ago) link
why does the USS Barry weigh so much?its full of options!
― Threadkiller General (Viceroy), Sunday, 20 March 2011 20:24 (thirteen years ago) link
that's my mark russell style political zing of the week.
― Threadkiller General (Viceroy), Sunday, 20 March 2011 20:25 (thirteen years ago) link
Louis, I have made terrible sexing decisions in the past indeed. But I can make better decisions in the future - you will always be a terrible person who gives leftists a bad name.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, 20 March 2011 20:39 (thirteen years ago) link
took a while to weigh up the options
This didn't seem to be the case with France or UK govs? They seemed pretty keen.
― a lot is my favorite number (Ned Trifle II), Sunday, 20 March 2011 20:43 (thirteen years ago) link
well, you know what the french are like, always spoiling for a fight
― I *\m/* metal soooo much (history mayne), Sunday, 20 March 2011 20:44 (thirteen years ago) link
Esp. when they've behind the National Front in the polls.
― a lot is my favorite number (Ned Trifle II), Sunday, 20 March 2011 20:45 (thirteen years ago) link
Not sure that getting sucked into a potentially messy war in the Middle East is a sure-fire poll-rating booster.
It's interesting - there doesn't look like there's much prospect of Gaddafi being removed any time soon. In the medium term, at least, all those British, French and American corporate interests (oil, guns, etc) are going to be hugely disadvantaged.
― Ha ha ha ha. Jack my swag. (ShariVari), Sunday, 20 March 2011 21:02 (thirteen years ago) link
looks like someone just blew up his house
― Romford Spring (DG), Sunday, 20 March 2011 21:12 (thirteen years ago) link
Reminds me of the influence of Chalabi and Iraqi exiles, and PNAC neocons, in 2002:
the political momentum to propose Resolution 1973 began in France...“the decisions of President Sarkozy and his Administration were driven by Libyan exilesgetting allies within the French intellectual establishment who were anxious to push for areal change in Libya.”On 2 April 2011, Sidney Blumenthal, adviser and unofficial intelligence analyst to the then United States Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, reported this conversation with French intelligence officers to the Secretary of State. According to these individuals Sarkozy’s plans are driven by the following issues:a. A desire to gain a greater share of Libya oil production,b. Increase French influence in North Africa,c. Improve his internal political situation in France,d. Provide the French military with an opportunity to reassert its position in the world,e. Address the concern of his advisors over Qaddafi’s long term plans to supplant France as the dominant power in Francophone Africa.
“the decisions of President Sarkozy and his Administration were driven by Libyan exilesgetting allies within the French intellectual establishment who were anxious to push for areal change in Libya.”
On 2 April 2011, Sidney Blumenthal, adviser and unofficial intelligence analyst to the then United States Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, reported this conversation with French intelligence officers to the Secretary of State. According to these individuals Sarkozy’s plans are driven by the following issues:a. A desire to gain a greater share of Libya oil production,b. Increase French influence in North Africa,c. Improve his internal political situation in France,d. Provide the French military with an opportunity to reassert its position in the world,e. Address the concern of his advisors over Qaddafi’s long term plans to supplant France as the dominant power in Francophone Africa.
― it's just locker room treason (Sanpaku), Friday, 26 May 2017 18:08 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, the whole chapter is pretty damning. Sarkozy is such a shithead.
― Frederik B, Friday, 26 May 2017 18:21 (seven years ago) link
Xps, it's a mixture. Most of the Labour MPs (Clywd, Gapes, Hendrick iirc) are unrepentant adventurists, though Qureshi isn't. Quite a few of the Tories (Blunt, Baron and Rosindell) have voted against, or not bothered to turn up for votes on, military actions in the past. You also have the world's only pro-Russia Pole (Dan Kawczynski). It's a weird blend of people but that probably works in its favour.
― Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Friday, 26 May 2017 18:35 (seven years ago) link
81. Unpublished House of Commons Library research found that the UK spent some £320 million on bombing Libya and approximately £25 million on reconstruction programmes. However, those figures do not include the UK’s contribution to multilateral reconstruction projects, such as those run by the United Nations. In addition, Dr Adrian Gallagher, University of Leeds, pointed out that the Government reduced its estimate of the cost of the military intervention from £320 million to £234 million. Taking into account UK contributions to programmes run by the United Nations, which had overall responsibility for co-ordinating reconstruction, and the European Union, Dr Gallagher concluded that the UK “spent just under half as much (48.72%) on rebuild than on intervention.”
― Frederik B, Saturday, 27 May 2017 14:25 (seven years ago) link
value for money much, UK?
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 27 May 2017 22:04 (seven years ago) link
ican we call this a success now
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 20 October 2011 15:26 (seven years ago) bookmarkflaglink
― ogmor, Wednesday, 3 July 2019 15:29 (four years ago) link
:/
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 16:04 (four years ago) link
Migrants stranded in Libya endure sewage, maggots, disease
By intent, and certainly a politically more palatable solution to the migrant problem than hosting the concentration camps in Italy.
Backed by Italy, Libya enlists militias to stop migrants
I anticipate this model to stop refugees fleeing overpopulation, resource scarcity, and the climate crisis will promoted in other nations of the Maghreb and West Asia (and maybe even Mexico).
― despondently sipping tomato soup (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 16:10 (four years ago) link
I got handed a lot of shit for saying this over and over.
I am totally unconvinced that the people of Libya are going to benefit from this war, however much this is invoked as the sole purpose of our bombing.― Aimless, Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:58 AM (eight years ago)
― Aimless, Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:58 AM (eight years ago)
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 17:35 (four years ago) link
Post WWII, the populations that have benefited from foreign military/intelligence agency intervention (South Korea, Kosovo) are utterly dwarfed by those that have been harmed. We're batting well under 0.1.
― despondently sipping tomato soup (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 17:39 (four years ago) link
I am totally unconvinced that the people of Libya are going to benefit from this war, however much this is invoked as the sole purpose of our bombing.
idk what yr crowing about, you think they would have been better off getting massacred by Khadhafee? yeah ok whatever, this is an unprovable hypothesis.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 3 July 2019 17:56 (four years ago) link
There would have been a crackdown on regime change plotters in Benghazi (who had been collaborating with French military intelligence since late 2010), and least those who didn't obtain asylum. However, it wouldn't have thrown the nation into regional (and tribal) conflict for a decade.
Often, dictatorial rule is preferable to civil conflict.
― despondently sipping tomato soup (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 18:28 (four years ago) link
Ah, yes, Οὖτις, you were the one who looked at my stated misgivings about our participation in the Libyan war and concluded that I thought "colonialism was worse than genocide". How genocide crept into the discussion is a mystery only you can solve.
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 18:39 (four years ago) link
"humanitarian intervention" is a bad idea that otherwise sensible ppl keep falling for
obama said in some interview late in his term that intervening in libya was his worst mistake as president, and it's hard not to agree
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 3 July 2019 18:45 (four years ago) link
piracy on the Mediterranean, seems a little unlikely
― goole, Thursday, 25 August 2011 16:58 (seven years ago) bookmarkflaglink
― ogmor, Thursday, 4 July 2019 09:22 (four years ago) link
does anyone want to intervene to topple haftar/the army? terrorising the south, indiscriminately or at least inaccurately shelling tripoli, how many dead civilians would it take?
― ogmor, Thursday, 4 July 2019 09:34 (four years ago) link
are open air slave markets not a big issue in libya now too?
― ||||||||, Thursday, 4 July 2019 10:05 (four years ago) link
― despondently sipping tomato soup (Sanpaku), 3. juli 2019 20:28 (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
My main problem with this is that dictatorial rule is pretty inherently unstable, and most often ends in civil conflict anyway.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 4 July 2019 10:36 (four years ago) link
Both Haftar and Jarvanka are UAE clients. There won't be a US led intervention.
― despondently sipping tomato soup (Sanpaku), Thursday, 4 July 2019 16:06 (four years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/24/mercenaries-flock-to-libya-raising-fears-of-prolonged-war
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 11:14 (four years ago) link
Of course. Saudi Arabia has been using the same janjaweed to guard their own border with Yemen for several years, having learned how useless their own National Guard (ie, army) is.
― Stupor is appropriate (Sanpaku), Tuesday, 24 December 2019 21:53 (four years ago) link
Interesting article but doesn't say that NATO bombed Libya's Great ManMade River & destroyed a pipe factory, causing water scarcity since 2011. Now 4 out of abt 7 million Libyans could “face imminent water problems,” a potential “humanitarian disaster.” https://t.co/je5ASKbfGq— Lucia Pradella (@LuGuangMing) August 18, 2021
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 18 August 2021 11:51 (two years ago) link
Up to 20,000 are now believed dead in Libya. This tragedy hasn't just been caused by floods, but by NATO's 2011 military aggression and ongoing sanctions that have decimated the country and undermined its ability to prepare for extreme weather events. https://t.co/mUekVkd5Vw 1/2— Kai Heron (@KaiHeron) September 14, 2023
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 14 September 2023 12:20 (eight months ago) link
Community notes does its job again
Libya was once one of Africa's most prosperous countries, but years of lawlessness have left it a fragile, divided state - ill-prepared to cope with the forces unleashed by a natural disaster. https://t.co/aFGO37ettU— BBC News Africa (@BBCAfrica) September 13, 2023
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 15 September 2023 17:34 (eight months ago) link