Canadian Politics Thread

MLW?
i'm not sure how "brilliant" a strategy it is since, having tried to pull a coalition stunt himself, this can blow up in Harper's face pretty easily.

Maple Leaf Web, sorry.

And, yeah, that's what Layton and Duceppe have been saying and part of what Reality Check discusses here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/realitycheck/2011/03/the-coalitions-not-the-question.html

I think the CPC is banking on a couple of things, though:

i) They're leading in the polls so people are less likely to think they'll need to try something like that again. (Plus, a coalition including the #1 party may seem less objectionable to the sort of people who think there is something objectionable about coalitions.)

ii) Their right-wing base isn't going anywhere (since they have nowhere else to go) and they can draw in more moderate voters this way, while simultaneously pushing away the left wing of the Liberal base. If anything, the idea that the CPC may be willing to work with other parties may even help them win centrist votes.

More good points: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/realitycheck/2011/03/coalition-reality-parsing-use-of-the-c-word.html

xpost - Yeah who knows, interesting to see where each party kicked off their campaigning this time around though. I'm glad Layton chose Edmonton as a starting point and it makes sense given that they are the second-place party in most Edm ridings but I'll be really surprised if NDP gain another seat (I hope they at least keep the one they have though, it'll be tight). On a side note, it seems the NDP dude for my area is really into comics which is kind of awesome

Do we have anyone from SK/MB on here who can enlighten us on this Tory business?

Having seen the UK's Tory/Lib Dem coalition in action over the last year I absolutely do not want a similar thing to happen in Canada. I really hope voters don't go in for either of those points you mention and that the other parties aren't tempted to form a coalition with the Conservatives.

WTF did the Lib Dems even gain from that coalition?

ii) Their right-wing base isn't going anywhere (since they have nowhere else to go) and they can draw in more moderate voters this way, while simultaneously pushing away the left wing of the Liberal base.

This is exactly how they get to 40% and a majority, and specifically, they focus on Southern Ontario because there are plenty of centrist Liberal voters who can be convinced to switch their votes. The early poll numbers show exactly this trend ... compared to the last election the Libs have lost several points to the Tories and the support for the other parties has stayed more or less the same.

it's a long while since i (a yank) knew anything about much about canadian politics but:

a. so jealous of the six-week campaign cycle
b. no morbz

so i have read that the tories are still expected to win a plurality (and can hope for a majority) -- why then was the no-confidence vote brought?

Because they couldn't in good conscience support a budget based on substantially fictional projections. And because they misjudged how little people care about lack of transparency, use of gov't letterheads and funds for targeted fundraising appeals, etc. Etc. Etc.

that sounds like the flyers from my ndp mp, too, Ms Chow. Seems like a decent sort, we see her around the area often, but she's almost more like a city councillor than an MP, whatever that means.

yeah olivia chow is my mp as well - she seems p dece although i dont know anything abt anything. i was just loling @ the flyer that touted her helping get some dude a falafel cart license or w/e

i am p excited about this election in a silly outsider-y way, although i dont think theres much i can do to help get harper out of office

WTF did the Lib Dems even gain from that coalition?

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― EveningStar (Sund4r)

i am p excited about this election in a silly outsider-y way, although i dont think theres much i can do to help get harper out of office

so they showed a clip on the Colbert report last night from some US news (CNN maybe) where they said "Stephen Harper's coalition government" had fallen.
i chuckled.

How does ILX feel about strategic/defensive voting? I've been, err, lucky enough to never have to because either I've lived in swing ridings where my guy is part of the swing, OR i have lived in places where a win is a foregone conclusion for one person, so i can just vote however i please.

i've done it before - but usually i go with how i feel.

I generally don't like strategic voting, which sort of goes hand in hand with my dislike of elections with proportional representation (if that makes sense). I think we had some lengthy discussions about this on other threads (possibly on one of the US election threads).

with first-past-the-post you kind of have to use strategy since the system is such crap

In my family people always put emphasis on "vote for the local candidate" vs "vote for the party", and 90% of the time they stuck with the party. That's not really strategic voting though.

xpost

xpost Not necessarily. If you want to let the party know that they have supporters in your riding, then you owe it to them to give them your vote. Then they'll know where they have pockets of support, and they'll be more likely to put more effort into campaigning and building up more support in that area leading up to the next election.

You've always been a Liberal voter in Toronto-area ridings though, right? Would you have opposed e.g. the 2008 Liberals for [NDP MP] Linda [Duncan] campaign in Edmonton-Strathcona, given that the alternative would have been a(nother) CPC MP and a fairly lousy one, just on the grounds that the Liberal Party would know they had that extra vote in an AB riding? Or would you oppose a US Green Party supporter voting for a Democratic Presidential or Gubernatorial candidate in order to block a Republican win?

When there is a concerted campaign behind one candidate in a close riding, I think strategic voting can make sense. However, that only applies to a very specific number of ridings.

Btw, while I've moved a little towards your views on proportional representation (I think I'd actually prefer non-partisan democracy best), many NDP supporters would tell you that they strategically vote Liberal (or perhaps BQ) because we don't have PR.

Those are both "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenarios, so it would depend on whether (to use your first example) I hated the Tories more than I liked the Liberals. In this case, I'd have to hate them a LOT more.

I also wouldn't vote for a party that I didn't like, no matter who their opponents were, for instance, I wouldn't vote for the federal NDP. Maybe if I happened to really like the NDP candidate in my riding and the Tories were running a genetically engineered neo-Stalin, but otherwise no.

To expand on that a bit more, I could imagine a situation where I would vote for the BQ if I lived in Quebec even though I'm not a separatist. I know I'm not the only one on this board who admires the BQ for being socially progressive, and I happen to like Duceppe as a leader.

And of course, I'm talking about the current state of these parties ... I'm not saying I would never ever vote for the NDP, if they elected a non-douchebag leader and stopped pandering to unions and polysci dropouts, then they might be a real option.

i know. it's a shame about the whole splitting up Canada thing. sometimes i wonder how much Deceppe even believes in it these days.

xpost

I'm sure he still *wants* it, but knows it won't happen under his leadership (or even in his lifetime).

In a way, the decline of separatism is a good thing for the Bloc because they can retain a broader spectrum of voter support -- both the hardcore separatists and the federalists who like having strong voices advocating for Quebec in parliament.

for them it's good. sort of a lose/lose for the dominion tho.

Anyone care to defend this?

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/963389--layton-vows-to-cap-credit-card-interest-rates?bn=1

I'm still working my way through a 1st-year macroeconomics textbook but why is that a bad idea? I don't have a strong opinion on it yet myself.

I could imagine a situation where I would vote for the BQ if I lived in Quebec even though I'm not a separatist.

This is exactly the sort of thing I meant btw. Likewise, I'd probably vote PQ or QS provincially if I lived in QC.

Don't expect the NDP to stop 'pandering to unions' any time too soon btw.:P They're probably as distant from the unions as they've ever been right now but they were pretty much founded as a labour party.

Admittedly, the Liberals' recent embrace of many of the economic policies the NDP has been advocating for a while has made them start looking pretty good to me. If my NDP MP weren't so strong or if I were in a swing riding, I'd probably strongly consider a Liberal vote this time.

I don't really have a strong opinion on it either. I guess as someone without credit card debt it's not really relevant to me personally. I'd be way more in favour of a price cap on stuff like the ridiculous cell phone and internet rates. I don't know, maybe working on bringing down the prices of bills and day to day living so people don't have to rely on credit cards so much to begin with would be a more productive course of action. But I never made it through my first year economics textbook at all so that might be wishy-washy idealist nonsense.

When I first started caring about politics I remember being disappointed to find out the BQ didn't run candidates outside of Quebec. I dig Duceppe. Looking forward to watching him in action in the debates.

The lower tier credit cards generally have a ~19% interest rate and a requirement to make a ~3% minimum payment on the balance every month. This encourages people who use their cards as a primary means of borrowing to hold a long-term balance on the card, making small payments and drowning in interest. The banks see this as a measure of risk assessment; e.g. they justify charging that rate because 1 in 10 don't pay any returns on their lending. Capping the rates will make the banks seek revenue elsewhere, for sure.

I think as an alternative to capping interest rates, lenders should be held to a more rigorous standard when making credit checks, approving loan access, etc. It's incredibly easy to get access to usurious credit, and the average person doesn't have alot of personal finance education (another topic; if you've been university you probably remember all the card companies hawking to the first-year students in the quad).
This helps cut down on predatory lending if the banks essentially can't approve anyone and everyone.
With deeper investigation you could approve lower rate constructive loans to people using credit for education, career advancement, etc, as well...
Also, if you raise the minimum monthly payments on credit cards, it would encourage people to reduce their borrowing and improve their long term financial health. I doubt this would be a popular decision, though.

People with higher incomes and better credit already have access to superior loan rates - the average line of credit in Canada is around prime plus two or so right now, and you can pretty easily borrow against your equity if you own property or similar capital assets. So they're not as exposed to the issue as people whose credit cards are their only means of borrowing. I don't have a good solution to that, personally :/

what's the status of the whole payday loans interest rate discussion? I recall the NDP pushing this a while back...one of the things I liked them for.

They're probably as distant from the unions as they've ever been right now

Actually, they were probably much more estranged in the aftermath of Rae's 'social contract'. Still, since then, they haven't been nearly as close as they used to be afaik.

Salsa shark, do you mean wage and price controls?

Thanks, Matt D.

Agh I don't know, it's just something I threw out there in response to the credit card cap thing, haven't really given it much thought beyond that!

As is this:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/liberals-promise-1-billion-a-year-in-student-aid--118834939.html

I'm still working my way through a 1st-year macroeconomics textbook but why is that a bad idea?

The other parties are rolling out plans for education and helping small businesses today (i.e. major issues that real parties talk about during election campaigns) and the NDP's response is ... credit card interest rates? It makes them look so small and insignificant next to the serious politicians. What are they announcing tomorrow? Discounts on bus passes?

It's very much in character for Layton, seeing how he's got a boner for taking on EVOL corporations such as banks. Yeah, everyone knows that banks make a lot of money. But as we've learned in the last couple of years, our banks are run exceptionally well compared with all the other major world economies. Was there a serious problem that was in need of fixing? Or does Layton get cheap thrills from taking on The Man? Rather than listening to what their constituents want, they're inventing new problems out of thin air and then offering "solutions" for them, essentially dictating to the voters what they *should* want. This is the exact opposite of what politicians should be doing.

And like Matt said, the banks will make up for the lost revenue in other ways and/or deny or reduce credit to their lower income clients that the NDP thinks they'll be helping.

i don't really care about that one either way.

I've been living around the Vancouver riding boundary line for the last few years and am never totally sure which riding I'm in. But now I am in the riding of Canada's best MP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Libby_Davies.jpg

http://www.ndp.qc.ca/commissions/lgbtt/libby.jpg

cuet!

Possible ground for the Opposition to work (although who knows what will sway the public?): http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/03/29/cv-f35-costs.html

Hey symsymsym, we are neighbours.

For one thing, the Bloc don't get as embroiled as the Parti Québécois in some of the more odiously anti-anglophone components of the language debate on the island. A week doesn't go by without some Parti Québécois-connected nutjob talking about how the English eat French babies or whatever. PQ-funded think tank reports that Chinese dépanneur owners are selling cigarettes made of out shredded ENGLISH newspapers. Overall the PQ seem more committed to keeping Québec white and stupid than anything else. I could never, ever, ever vote for a party like that.

The Bloc however is more of an actual political party with an eye for a multi-cultural, progressive, and resolutely French-speaking future for Québec as a province, or country, or whatever. I get Duceppe leaflets every once in a while and I like what he has to say. If it wasn't for the weird fragility and blunted aspirations of the English community on the island I'd vote Bloc. Ah fuck, maybe I will. The problems of other anglos are not really my problems and Duceppe probably has a bit to do with why this is the only neighbourhood in the entire country worth living in. Better to be awesome than English, I guess.

Ha, I forgot about that aspect of the PQ. I guess I was mainly still thinking of Levesque-style socialism. QS is probably more what I'm looking for.

This seems like it could be a potentially winning/salvaging strategy for the Opposition but it would require a near-total reversal of what the Liberals have been doing so far and seems unlikely: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18437&pid=647006&st=0&#entry647006

(referring to the OP)

QS is a party made up of all the remnants of Québec's various Marxist-Leninist, Trotskyist-Leninist, Workers Parties, blah blah blah etc. etc. They field exactly one compelling candidate, a man whose father still holds weird pseudo-revolutionary training camps/supper clubs on a farm in the Eastern Townships. Membership seems comprised of some D&D guys, a couple of crust punks, and some of the softer elements of the militant French language defence groups.

QS could not get elected anywhere other than the Plateau. The fact that it's even a party is testament to how odd a place the Plateau is. In the only provincial electoral district in Canada where Live Action Role Playing is more visible than baseball as a public sporting event, fantasy certainly plays a role.

I may have screwed up my boundaries here. Can't remember the eastern border of Amir Khadir's Plateaustan (as the media are fond of calling it).

wait west.

hello everything! we vancouver ilxors are few but proud

Yo. It's nice to be in a riding where it's possible to vote for the candidate and think less about the party politics. I'm not a huge NDP fan but I'll vote for her for sure. She's proved herself to me on a personal level. I work on the frontlines in social housing and she actually sought me out to get some off the record/ground level feedback that was not filtered through the sector organisations/BC Housing information machines. I'm not a party member or anything - she just found me via my job description and invited me to meet her, asked intelligent questions and listened to what I had to say. I really respect her for that.

Ha, fields, OK, it's been 10 years since I lived in Montreal (for a year) so I'm kind of talking out of my ass wrt QC provincial politics. I guess I'm just really disappointed with Charest, though I really tried to like him for a while.

that's awesome. her office helped a friend of mine receive a scholarship from ubc that he deserved and they were trying to deny him. her level of constituent outreach is pretty amazing.

xp