medical school

I'm Canadian; I only know the American programs by reputation.

Famous places especially for neuro in those areas: Mayo, Iowa, WUSTL, Baylor. There must be others, thats just off the top of my head. I'm sure any decent sized school will have a fairly solid neuro program. Applying to places where you actually want to live is a good idea. Also recommend you choose a program in large part because their residents seem happy or at least sane. That's what I did and it worked out OK.

Minnesota is nice, and the residents seemed pleased with the program, by all accounts.

btw i'm on the five-year program, so residency isn't a "thing" for me until next year, but i'm leaning a lot more towards general practice right now

I will try to keep track of the match-stravaganza on this thread.

oh please do!

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/07/13/267427/health-care-professional-earnings/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+matthewyglesias+%28Matthew+Yglesias%29

173k a year...is not enough?

to pay back your student loans before your own kids are in college? no, not really

"In 2010, the median debt at graduation was $150,000 at public institutions, $180,000 at private, and $160,000 combined." Yes, $173k a year is enough to pay off that debt in 10ish years, gimme a break.

someone who lives semi-frugally could do it in less than 10

so I mean unless you have a genius kid who goes to college at age 9, I'm pretty sure 173k a year is 'enough'

you can practice in fairbanks, alaska

Yeah, less than 10 is doable too. At 10 years, 6.5% interest, $180k loan, you're looking at $2k loan payments a month. Say your gross pay on $173k is $90k; you're still looking at $7500 a month. Paying $2k a month is totally doable.

it would be sooooo good for the USA's educational system & financial outlook if we'd get doctor salaries & teacher salaries at about the same level, as they are in France.

I have family friends who are doctors near paris.

they have nice houses.

so do teachers there!

it would be sooooo good for the USA's educational system & financial outlook if we'd get doctor salaries & teacher salaries at about the same level, as they are in France.

― Euler, Wednesday, July 13, 2011 4:34 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

i can't see this ever happening

well, i can see doctor salaries coming down, but i can't see teacher salaries going up significantly

Teacher salaries in the USA aren't *that* bad, so I'd be happy enough with doctor salaries coming down to closer to that level. Of course we have to fix malpractice costs & medical school costs to make that happen.

yeah med school being subsidized is something that really needs to happen. it would attract better candidates imo

in France med school is essentially free

Teacher salaries in the USA aren't *that* bad

teacher salaries in urban schools are too low for the work required imo.

in France they kiss on Main Street

xp yes you're right & this is always the catch with doctor salaries in the USA, because they work such long hours & are on call...we also could use a lot more doctors to make up for letting doctors work less, but the AMA keeps the supply artificially low by limiting the number of accredited med schools, for the purpose of keeping doctor salaries high.

everything in the US is really expensive

AMA keeps the supply artificially low by limiting the number of accredited med schools, for the purpose of keeping doctor salaries high.

yeah this is basically what it all sits on

everything in the US is really expensive

not gas and cheap pieces of plastic

parking too

wellll my point was more that doctors graduate w/ higher relative debt burdens, not that they actually need 20 yrs to pay back their student loans

but arguments about what is 'enough' are going to be p pointless, i suppose, particularly w/iatee

i think the problem is less with how much doctors make then how theyre paid tbh

also i wonder what patient outcomes are like in france. also salaries overall are a lot lower in france arent they? im skeptical of the 'best candidates' argument but i think theres some validity to it as well...

yeah, maybe i'm wrong.

everything in the US is really expensive

not gas and cheap pieces of plastic

or corn...

it's just a thought i have in irritation sometimes when my mom complains about the shitty doctors she knows; clearly these people only got into this profession for the money.

Salaries are lower in France, though French salaries are usually quoted net meaning tax, health care, pension, university don't need to be paid for.

A full professor in France makes about 3k-4k euros per month, net.

patient outcomes are great! french people are healthier than americans. the only complaints I've heard have been about sorta upper-income people, I think there's an income gap of sorts.

(and...anecdotal but the healthcare I received when I lived in france was basically out of this world compared to what I deal w/ here.)

some of my *thoughts* about doctor salaries come from the gap in pay between doctors and other health workers, which definitely breeds resentment. (i know some shitty radiologists who basically just rubber-stamp the readings performed by their techs...who must hate them! i always figured this could only be justified by how expensive medical school is.)

i thought certain programs were fee-paying in france?

my bf & i are renting an apt in paris over december again this year & im always amazed at what rent for a large-ish one bedroom in central paris goes for compared to the places in the us ive lived (bay area/nyc/conn) but i was looking at housing costs as a % of income and that was still p high. i guess this doesnt really have anything to w/ anything but we just booked the apt today so i was thinking abt it...

anyways i think lowering doctors salaries in isolation is probably kinda pointless but w/e

(i know there are also good radiologists whose expertise is valuable; my mom is one. still not sure her labor is worth 12 times more than her ultrasound technician's.)

yeah paris rent is kinda amazing compared to nyc or london or what you'd expect it to be, I've never understood the economics behind it. I've heard there are a lot of empty buildings / resentful landlords due to various rent control laws.

yeah apt costs are super high in the city of Paris; I just got back from an extended stay there a few days ago & had a nice 1 bedroom in the 6th & paid well over $2k for it. But when I lived there long-term last year we lived outside the city for under a thousand euros a month.

oh man my parents pushed hard for me to become a radiologist when I was in high school

i heard somewhere recently that radiology is going to be rendered obsolete in fifteen years. have no idea where i heard that or why it's supposed to happen.

so it's a good thing you didn't!

I think most professions we regard today as being 'high paying' are gonna be rendered obsolete in fifteen years. computers. =[

yeah apt costs are super high in the city of Paris; I just got back from an extended stay there a few days ago & had a nice 1 bedroom in the 6th & paid well over $2k for it. But when I lived there long-term last year we lived outside the city for under a thousand euros a month.

haha dont you live in kansas city? i think were paying c$1800 for a nice one bedroom and that felt like a p good deal!! thats not much more than my rent in toronto and less than i paid in ny.

Euler, lamp and I were saying they're cheap! I know someone who was paying 300e for a studio.

xp

for real? ok a 300 euro studio is gonna be the size of a closet.

I live near Kansas City right now & own a big house in a small town for about the same price as I'd pay for a decent apt in the Paris suburbs---I'm always playing with moving to France so these things are on my mind.

also the inner bans might as well be Paris / probably only aren't cause of a poor choice of wall/freeway construction. moving to a suburb on a metro or rer line is a lot different than moving to an American suburb.

I loved living in a first-ring Paris suburb last year, right off the RER. It took me the same time to get to e.g. Trocadero as it did from the 6th last month.

I am super fascinated by the first ring Paris burbs for some reason. its interesting how much they're ignored when they're such a big aspect of how Paris 'works' as an urban area. there is a good blog on the subject.

anyway, med school...

I'm always playing with moving to France so these things are on my mind

oh man i think about moving to spain all the time... i dont think i can make it happen tho w/o fucking up my job prospects...

my theory about french rents is that there isnt the same culture of compensation in france that there is in london or ny or the bay area, where the high end of the market exerts an upward pressure on rents. also that french rent controls are better/exist makes sense too

yeah but rich plutocrats from the Middle East & Russia are buying property in central Paris like mad so costs are going way up. I'm resigned to the fact that, should I get a position there, we'll live in the suburbs...which is totally fine! The doctors there are good too! My doctor, in Vincennes, worked in an apartment building; his office was just two apartments together, & he had no secretary or nurse. He handled the finances himself too, though those go through the central administration of CPAM / supplemental insurance companies, & is apparently not the burden it is here.

my theory about french rents is that there isnt the same culture of compensation in france that there is in london or ny or the bay area, where the high end of the market exerts an upward pressure on rents. also that french rent controls are better/exist makes sense too

that's pretty interesting I never thought about it like that. also having a pretty uniform architecture makes a building in the 16th look pretty similar on the outside to lots of 'poorer' neighborhoods + everywhere is pretty convenient - so you can def live in an 'upper class' part of the city but it's not as drastic a lifestyle thing the west village vs. the bronx. it's harder to be conspicuous even if you wanna be when everyone lives in pretty buildings and poor people dress well.

+ the rich people just aren't as rich