yeah idk there is a huge variation in "manual labor" which scales from intensely focused detail work to loading boxes to heavy constriction. but dan selzer otm, there are definitely rewards to *making stuff* that are very different from managing your inbox and moving information around or whatever. i made candles my first year out of college and the manufacturing process was pretty great -- i could get stoned and play with wax all day and look at the amount of inventory i'd produced at the end of each day as proof of my productivity. it's easy to romanticize labor, but it's still work and the you cannot take it for granted!
― jackie tretorn (elmo argonaut), Monday, 15 August 2011 14:58 (twelve years ago) link
the hilarious thing about the nyt article was all the lawyers and marketing execs who quit their jobs apparently without giving one iota of thought to the amount of work that it takes to start and run your own business
this is something to which i can testify from first-hand experience.
also, i've never been big on manual labor ... either as a way to make a living or in the handyman-around-the-house sense. so i guess i'm not the ideal reader for these sorts of articles.
― Friedrich das Wunderhahn hat den traurigen Clownporn sehr gern (Eisbaer), Monday, 15 August 2011 15:02 (twelve years ago) link
and c'mon "ski patroller" sounds like "baywatch life guard" on the list of manual labor jobs
― dayo, Monday, August 15, 2011 9:22 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark
not really
most of the day is spent doing chores (fixing rope lines, shoveling, carrying shit from point a to point b...the pros/old-timers go out on dawn patrol (like, wake up at 3am) and get to throw bombs for avalanche control)
then when you actually do your job you have to load an entire other person into a toboggan and then ski down with the thing behind you. it's really hard work!
― remembrance of schwings past (gbx), Monday, 15 August 2011 15:05 (twelve years ago) link
throwing her job overboard in favor of taking over a small flower shop
i have an acquaintance who has done this (although she did have some experience). she has been quite successful in getting business and publicity, but -- it appears to be a *tremendous* amount of work, i'm not sure how much money she actually makes from it, and constantly dealing with weddings and the stresses thereof seems kind of hellish
― mookieproof, Monday, 15 August 2011 15:08 (twelve years ago) link
― remembrance of schwings past (gbx), Monday, August 15, 2011 11:05 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark
yeah but you work at a ski lodge
― dayo, Monday, 15 August 2011 15:10 (twelve years ago) link
as someone who spent a spell as a "professional" part-time wedding DJ as well as a letterpress printer, I have to say that a) there is money in weddings and b) there is worlds of pain
― dan selzer, Monday, 15 August 2011 15:11 (twelve years ago) link
my dad entered his 60s and works at a low level manual labor job. it's been tough watching his body break down on him in the past few years, and knowing that he still has at least 5 more to go before he can retire and collect his benefits. especially because all of his hobbies (woodworking, gardening, renovations) all depend on him having a relatively healthy and functioning body. he talks longingly with me about looking forward to the days when he can spend all his time in the garden and I hope he'll make it through to that day in a functioning way.
― dayo, Monday, 15 August 2011 15:13 (twelve years ago) link
I wonder if there are any other jobs consisting of manual labor where the training is going on ski holidays as a child?
― kate78, Monday, 15 August 2011 15:19 (twelve years ago) link
lesson from all this: work in general sucks!
― Friedrich das Wunderhahn hat den traurigen Clownporn sehr gern (Eisbaer), Monday, 15 August 2011 15:30 (twelve years ago) link
dayo - that's exactly what I'm talking about. I hope your dad can retire and enjoy his garden in good health!
― ilx poster and keen dairy observer (Jenny), Monday, 15 August 2011 15:37 (twelve years ago) link
thanks Jenny! I'm pullin' for him.
― dayo, Monday, 15 August 2011 15:47 (twelve years ago) link
― dan selzer, Monday, August 15, 2011 5:11 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark
this is so OTM
― (gr8080), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 00:35 (twelve years ago) link
When my parents decided they wanted to open a coffee shop as a pleasant retirement business, I had a fit because they barely drank coffee, didn't go to coffee shops and had no clue what it entailed to run a business. They also didn't think it would be necessary to hire a manager for the store. Then they realized they would have to be at the store at all times to open, do orders, receive deliveries, schedule workers, do payroll, deal with health inspectors, etc. etc. They actually seemed shocked that the high schoolers they hired gave away free stuff to friends. They got super lucky when the previous owners of the shop for some reason decided not to close on the sale and they only lost a little money.
this made me lol because i'm pretty sure i've been to coffee shops that started this way
― (gr8080), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 00:36 (twelve years ago) link
a) there is money in weddings and b) there is worlds of pain
yeah you gotta be hardcore as a vendor. every customer thinks they're special because they're only doing this the one time while the vendor is dealing with the same crazy shit every week
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 02:08 (twelve years ago) link
this is true for a lot of service industries when you deal with the general public (as opposed to other businesses). it's definitely true if you're running a law firm or a doctor's office.
― Friedrich das Wunderhahn hat den traurigen Clownporn sehr gern (Eisbaer), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 04:04 (twelve years ago) link
This is actually from May, but I didn't see it at the time and it's sort of fascinating:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/nyregion/brooklyn-neighbors-share-landlord-but-not-amenities.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
― Helping 3 (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 21:45 (twelve years ago) link
And as is often the case in both real estate and human nature, one condo owner said she too felt envy — for the people who lived on the affordable side. The woman, a 32-year-old mother-to-be who did not want to have her name published, said she and her husband poured their life savings into their one-bedroom condo at Northside Piers. (She also said that if everyone used the gym and pool, “it’s going to be a mess.”)
The rentals, by comparison, were a sweet deal, she said.
“Sometimes we feel they are luckier,” she said. “We are not that rich.”
― (gr8080), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 22:44 (twelve years ago) link
id totally take the below market rent over the gym pool etc
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 22:46 (twelve years ago) link
one bedroom with a kid on the way? no wonder this lady's having second thoughts
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 22:49 (twelve years ago) link
Oh good
http://nymag.com/daily/fashion/2011/08/rich_people_feel_comfortable_b.html
― Helping 3 (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 04:15 (twelve years ago) link
Is Mark Zandi seriously suggesting that the recession happened because rich people stopped spending money? Jesus. Time to revive the oligarchy thread.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 04:23 (twelve years ago) link
omg this earthquake is gonna create such great material for this thread
― karen d. foreskin (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 19:44 (twelve years ago) link
PTSD alert
― dozens, maybe even hundreds, of vagina related screen names (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 23 August 2011 19:53 (twelve years ago) link
http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/26/seven-ways-to-protect-your-tech-from-irene/
Hurricane approaching? Don't forget to fire up a month’s worth of data for your 3G iPad!
― unique housing opportunity (swanbed.gif) (govern yourself accordingly), Friday, 26 August 2011 18:37 (twelve years ago) link
Follow #hurricane and #irene on Twitter.
― puerile fantasies (Matt P), Friday, 26 August 2011 18:53 (twelve years ago) link
@NYC lol #own3d
― (gr8080), Friday, 26 August 2011 19:37 (twelve years ago) link
beware the flying glass shards from those luxury condos.
― Murdered plants communicate with a bowl of shrimps in another room! (Eisbaer), Saturday, 27 August 2011 18:56 (twelve years ago) link
Have just been reading those Peter Watts books in which ecological disasters/explosions send shockwaves into urban areas and shatter all the sheet glass from skyscrapers, which falls into the canyons of the streets and shears the pedestrians apart into little pieces, and broken glass and parts of people fill up the streets to the 2nd or 3rd story.
Glad I don't live in Midtown or the financial dist wot.
― arch midwestern housewife named (Laurel), Saturday, 27 August 2011 19:30 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/realestate/new-mortgage-limit-may-set-buyers-back.htm
― s.clover, Monday, 29 August 2011 18:41 (twelve years ago) link
eh not ruling class
article's not particularly obnoxious either
― iatee, Monday, 29 August 2011 18:45 (twelve years ago) link
It's probably not ruling class for NYC, but $625k isn't chump change regardless?
― unwarranted display names of ilx (mh), Monday, 29 August 2011 19:09 (twelve years ago) link
pretty sure there are people on ilx w/ mortgages around that size
not chump change but still a subject that's relevant to a decent % of people reading the nyt, far more people than private planes to summer camps etc.
― iatee, Monday, 29 August 2011 19:12 (twelve years ago) link
I'm just kind of shocked that a web site designer and an interior designer are taking out a 700k loan
― dayo, Monday, 29 August 2011 19:13 (twelve years ago) link
yeah iatee otm, before the crash, $625k was a middle class house in the SF Bay Area.
― sarahel, Monday, 29 August 2011 19:14 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, not ruling class. My eyes always get wide when I think of real estate prices like that but it's not really a thing.
― unwarranted display names of ilx (mh), Monday, 29 August 2011 19:23 (twelve years ago) link
that's why you get a loan for it. for the ruling class that would be chump change, and they would just pay cash.
why? idgi
― the wheelie king (wk), Monday, 29 August 2011 19:25 (twelve years ago) link
those are not exactly the kinds of jobs that scream out "job stability" to me?
― dayo, Monday, 29 August 2011 19:27 (twelve years ago) link
I'm incapable of comprehending how anyone can afford a mortgage that must be $2500-3500/month, tbh.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 29 August 2011 19:28 (twelve years ago) link
Some people are paying that much in rent anyway!
― arch midwestern housewife named (Laurel), Monday, 29 August 2011 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
I know. It's insane.
hmm ok. my experience is otherwise, but whatevs.
― the wheelie king (wk), Monday, 29 August 2011 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
their job stability, as with a large % of people in nyc, is directly related to the ruling class
― iatee, Monday, 29 August 2011 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
The apartment that my ex picked in Manhattan where I lived for a year was $2300. It slowly bankrupted us, as it happens, but we could have afforded it IF we had also made some lifestyle changes (which he refused to make).
― arch midwestern housewife named (Laurel), Monday, 29 August 2011 19:31 (twelve years ago) link
where was it?
― iatee, Monday, 29 August 2011 19:32 (twelve years ago) link
yeah the "buy a house first" logic probably really only holds in NYC and SF
― dayo, Monday, 29 August 2011 19:34 (twelve years ago) link
14th St and 1st Ave, ground floor, back. About 500sf iirc. Total cave.
― arch midwestern housewife named (Laurel), Monday, 29 August 2011 19:35 (twelve years ago) link
$2,300 is nothing in NYC and in some parts is really really cheap. In even the cheapest parts of Manhattan you'll expect to pay about that much for a 2 bedroom.
― Mordy, Monday, 29 August 2011 19:35 (twelve years ago) link
What can you buy for, like, 900K in NY?
^^^item I should google my damn self, I know.
― quincie, Monday, 29 August 2011 19:37 (twelve years ago) link
a unit in washington heights?
― Mordy, Monday, 29 August 2011 19:37 (twelve years ago) link
actually I think it's easy to overrate how much of the nyc market is made up of $2000+ rents
relatively few people live in manhattan + nice parts of brooklyn and a decent % of that is rent controlled, housing projects, etc.
― iatee, Monday, 29 August 2011 19:38 (twelve years ago) link