My town used to have a system where all the lights would turn red and the pedestrians could just take over, walking across the street catty-corner even.
― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 8 September 2011 21:21 (twelve years ago) link
like, on christmas or something?
― goole, Thursday, 8 September 2011 21:24 (twelve years ago) link
never seen anyone get a ticket for this
Me either but I have seen someone pulled over for failing to yield to ppl crossing in a crosswalk - kind of a tourist town kind of thing.
― em vee equals pea queue (Michael White), Thursday, September 8, 2011 5:09 PM (9 minutes ago)
and this is great obviously - see people get pulled over all the time where i live too (college town) and they deserve it - pedestrians are hit every year it seems & last year a kid was hit by a bus & died
― k3vin k., Thursday, 8 September 2011 21:26 (twelve years ago) link
I guess they're known as "Denver Lights" (and still being used?)
And this:
An article titled “The Last Dance for Denver” in Wednesday’s Wall Street Journal paid homage to that city’s unique pedestrian crossing system upon its demise. And it recalled a time when Little Rock followed Denver’s lead and gave the system a whirl. The system, dating back to 1947, was created when a young traffic engineer named Henry Barnes arrived in Denver to bring order to the city’s busy, chaotic streets, with pedestrians a main concern. The plan? Every few minutes, all traffic is halted at an intersection for about 20 seconds to give pedestrians a shot at crossing. And those hoofing it could cross any which way they choose — even diagonally. The free-for-all for those on foot was tagged the Barnes Dance. Other cities in the U.S. and abroad followed suit — London, Tokyo, and yes, even Little Rock began doing the Barnes Dance, back on June 15, 1954. “What I remember most is the pride with which my father told me about them,” recalls Starr Mitchell, then a small child. “I was with him the first time I walked across a street with the Denver traffic lights. I was equally as proud.” Little Rock installed 11 Denver lights along Main Street, and pedestrians had 25 seconds to cross. Paul Johnson of Hot Springs remembers driving to Little Rock via Highway 5 as a teenager in 1957 or 1958 with his high school buddies and their dates. The guys were on the hunt for $4.98 buttondown collar shirts at National Shirt Shop, while their dates wanted to visit Blass and Kempner’s Shoe Store. “I believe there was one at Capitol and Main that let you walk diagonally from one corner to the other on all four corners,” recalls Johnson. The system, it seemed, was a mixed blessing. Within 30 minutes of installing a Denver light at Markham and Main, it was removed by police after traffic backed up across the Main street bridge into North Little Rock. Critics blamed the lights for slowing and congesting traffic, but supporters credited it for reducing pedestrian injuries. As complaints flowed into City Hall, city leaders put the system on a 90-day hiatus, and a local civic organization, The Sertoma Club, took to the streets to survey pedestrians and drivers. The results? Strong opposition to the Denver lights. By 1958, all of the Denver lights along West Capitol Avenue were removed, and eventually, the rest faded into history. Back in Denver, while the unusual streetcrossing system is abolished, the traffic in all four directions will still stop simultaneously. Traditionalists who dare to cross diagonally now risk being slapped with a $40 jaywalking fine.
― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 8 September 2011 21:36 (twelve years ago) link
There are a few of those in Seattle - 1st and Pike (at the market) and a crazy 5 way intersection on Beacon Hill that I know of.
― Jaq, Thursday, 8 September 2011 21:41 (twelve years ago) link
in the college town where my gf currently resides that system is in place at various downtown intersections. not 'officially' in place, afaik, but most people cross diagonally when both ped lights are green. I don't think the idea itself is inherently good or bad - the time amounted to cross (and frequency of ped green lights) is more important. in this city the wait time can be pretty long at some intersections but the city's small enough that jaywalking gives you more flexibility. (and cops don't care)
― iatee, Thursday, 8 September 2011 21:49 (twelve years ago) link
The downtown SF I mentioned above cycles through:
Green lights for cars and don't walk on one side depending on the direction of the intersecting street, allowing cars to turn off;
Red lights for alternating traffic (also w/the don't walk on one side of the intersecting street allowing those cars to turn onto the first street;
A 'Barnes Dance' which lasts about 15 or 20 seconds; and
back to the beginning of the cycle
― em vee equals pea queue (Michael White), Thursday, 8 September 2011 21:53 (twelve years ago) link
Red lights for alternating to allow cross traffic
― em vee equals pea queue (Michael White), Thursday, 8 September 2011 21:55 (twelve years ago) link
old town pasadena has "denver lights"
― max, Thursday, 8 September 2011 21:59 (twelve years ago) link
The free-for-all for those on foot was tagged the Barnes Dance.
old-timey lol
― goole, Thursday, 8 September 2011 22:00 (twelve years ago) link
basically, assuming a dense place w/ entirely timed lights - if you split the time between (ped only) and (cars only, both ways), that's gonna, overall, move pedestrians as fast as normal crosswalk lights. but that's generally not going to be how the time's allotted, it certainly isn't where my gf lives.
otoh in a place w/ generally shitty ped crossing I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer a longer wait for a safer walk.
― iatee, Thursday, 8 September 2011 22:04 (twelve years ago) link
i recommend that the city of pasadena take down "denver lights" as part of a larger program of ceasing to exist entirely
― max, Thursday, 8 September 2011 22:11 (twelve years ago) link
what happens after cease to exist?
― the wheelie king (wk), Thursday, 8 September 2011 23:11 (twelve years ago) link
it goes to heaven
― runaway (Matt P), Thursday, 8 September 2011 23:13 (twelve years ago) link
finally the little old lady can be reunited with her hometown after being struck dead by the little deuce coupe.
― Philip Nunez, Thursday, 8 September 2011 23:24 (twelve years ago) link
R.I.P.
― runaway (Matt P), Thursday, 8 September 2011 23:27 (twelve years ago) link
the hamburger lady?
― the wheelie king (wk), Thursday, 8 September 2011 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
This sort of makes me think of 'shared space' initiatives in Europe, now being used in a few places in the UK, where sections of roads in heavily pedestrianised areas (road sizes are about 3-4 squished lanes across) are stripped of signs, lights, barriers, and so on. The idea is that drivers and pedestrians are forced to 'communicate' with one another much more, be more aware of one another's presence and intentions.
Accidents involving vehicles have reportedly dropped in these areas. I like the idea of implementing this in similar areas in N America, where there are a lot of pedestrians and the road isn't a main thoroughfare, but somehow I can't imagine drivers being confident enough to navigate without signs and lights (here I think of the few people I know who will reroute an entire journey just to avoid driving through a traffic circle) or cities being willing to not consider jaywalking an infraction.
― salsa shark, Friday, 9 September 2011 12:12 (twelve years ago) link
The idea is that drivers and pedestrians are forced to 'communicate' with one another much more, be more aware of one another's presence and intentions.
On paper, I'm pretty much dismissing any "communication" between drivers and pedestrians.
― Pleasant Plains, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:04 (twelve years ago) link
lol that idea is lmao
― D-40, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:10 (twelve years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space
― max, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:18 (twelve years ago) link
I communicate w/pedestrians all the time; with my bumpers!
― em vee equals pea queue (Michael White), Friday, 9 September 2011 15:23 (twelve years ago) link
Right turn on red is great as long as you remember it's optional and pay attention to signs that say NO RIGHT TURN ON RED
When the city redid the freeway bridges, they ended up killing the visibility so all the exit ramps have those signs now. Some people still turn, and it sucks. Also, the jerks who honk at me for not making a right turn on red are awful. It's a goddamn option, I can wait for the green, maybe I have a reason to do so that you can't see!
― mh, Thursday, September 8, 2011 12:28 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Also, the jerks who honk at me for not making a right turn on red are awful. It's a goddamn option, I can wait for the green
YOU ARE HUMAN TRASH
― goole, Thursday, September 8, 2011 12:29 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
goole otm
― Battlestar Gracián (crüt), Friday, 9 September 2011 15:24 (twelve years ago) link
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgxf8auSQk1qzsuffo1_500.jpg
― Pleasant Plains, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:25 (twelve years ago) link
Basically anybody who honks is human trash. "Oh, you're frustrated? Gee, you're the only one. Oh, you're late? Did I cause you to understimate the time you need to get there?"
― em vee equals pea queue (Michael White), Friday, 9 September 2011 15:26 (twelve years ago) link
otm
― iatee, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:27 (twelve years ago) link
in a lot of countries honking is used as a signaling device between cars "hey I'm here don't run into me"
― dayo, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:28 (twelve years ago) link
I'll tap my horn if someone is at a green light and is distracted and I'll honk at someone cutting me off, but that's basically it. I think urban honkers should be fined up the yazoo.
― em vee equals pea queue (Michael White), Friday, 9 September 2011 15:28 (twelve years ago) link
I flick off people who honk too. I'm a bitter motherfucker when I'm walking in the city.
― kkvgz, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:28 (twelve years ago) link
How muscular is that middle finger, kkvgz?
― em vee equals pea queue (Michael White), Friday, 9 September 2011 15:30 (twelve years ago) link
i honked at a woman yesterday who thought that taking a left into oncoming traffic (me) was a good idea.
fucking minivans.
― goole, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:30 (twelve years ago) link
I don't get why people get all angry at honking. It's a useful tool! I have no ill will and don't honk in anger, it's just a prompt to let someone know there's something they need to pay attention to.
― mh, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:30 (twelve years ago) link
honking is awesome fuiud
― D-40, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:32 (twelve years ago) link
hiud
― dayo, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:32 (twelve years ago) link
mh, if honking is a form of constructive communication, fine. I think we're talking about ppl whose honking is essentially pointless whining. "Thanks for the noise pollution but if I turn right now I'm taking out a mother and her child in a stroller, asshole."
― em vee equals pea queue (Michael White), Friday, 9 September 2011 15:33 (twelve years ago) link
Oh yeah, those people are the scum of the earth and who I was complaining about when I said that maybe I wasn't turning FOR A REASON
― mh, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:34 (twelve years ago) link
the midnight cowboy gif is funny because tbh most of manhattan more or less functions as 'shared space' already - jaywalking is fine, cars don't obey traffic laws. but if anything it demonstrates *why* it wouldn't work in america - people and cyclists get killed on a regular basis.
that's under a system w/ clear speed limits, traffic laws, etc. take that legal structure away and you're just giving people a better reason to drive recklessly.
I mean the concept makes sense in a place w/ strict speed limits, generally more pedestrians than cars and (esp:) very narrow roads. we don't have a ton of places that currently fit that description. we should be designing them for future use, but it's hard to imagine 'shared space' being very useful somewhere like chicago. it would work in like...south of the grid manhattan, if you destroyed the rest of manhattan.
― iatee, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:39 (twelve years ago) link
when I was in peru I rode in a car and we took a road up the mountain, with no guardrails. every time we took a turn the driver would honk, just in case there was a car coming the other way.
in china, people generally drive as if they are the only car on the road, even if they are surrounded by cars and the inside of their car is filled with cars and their are cars on top of their car and they are not actually in a car but are actually a pedestrian. you need to honk at them to let them know that they are about to turn into you or back into you. this is what happens when you have a country that all of a sudden has millions of new car owners who have never driven a car before, and millions of people who are not used to navigating a city suddenly filled with cars.
― dayo, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:40 (twelve years ago) link
I usually toot my horn three times whenever I run a red light.
― Pleasant Plains, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:42 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IhOsPNGrdE
― goole, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:42 (twelve years ago) link
people and cyclists get killed on a regular basis.
haha I could have phrased this better
― iatee, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:43 (twelve years ago) link
savages
― mh, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:43 (twelve years ago) link
haha yeah, driving in Bolivia was insane---well, I was just a car rider, but cars drove whichever direction on the road they wanted, on the left, right, whatever, weaving between each other, no lanes. shared space!
― Euler, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:44 (twelve years ago) link
basically I only honk if I am about to inadvertently kill you
or if you're making me miss a light for no reason
― Tal Berkowitz - Vaccine advocate (DJP), Friday, 9 September 2011 15:44 (twelve years ago) link
btw honking is an essential part of driving & fun to boot. If God didn't want us to honk, he wouldn't have put horns on cars.
― Euler, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:45 (twelve years ago) link
Developping world driving can be very bracing.
― em vee equals pea queue (Michael White), Friday, 9 September 2011 15:46 (twelve years ago) link
people who honk at me deserve to die instantly, hopefully by having rusty forks scrape the skin off of their faces and then having the exposed flesh pressed slowly into lava
― Tal Berkowitz - Vaccine advocate (DJP), Friday, 9 September 2011 15:46 (twelve years ago) link
Mutually exclusive?
i honk all day, honk all night
― brownie, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:47 (twelve years ago) link
djp do you honk when you are advertently about to kill someone
― dayo, Friday, 9 September 2011 15:47 (twelve years ago) link