the America government should continue its policies subsidizing and encouraging the development of suburbs
let me hold your hand lil boy and walk you through this. wait ok here, lemme post this for the 3rd time and maybe it'll sink in:
so have all car-based suburbs either convert to public trans-based ones or die; get rid of those zoning laws too, and?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:36 (twelve years ago) link
i dont care what happens to granny as long as i can keep my castle and gardens
― Lamp, Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:37 (twelve years ago) link
yeah this is probably unsustainable and b. american public policy should bet set in a manner that disincentivizes unsustainable lifestyles.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:37 (twelve years ago) link
but max and dayo feel free to continue to think i'm against to continue their awesome zingathon
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:38 (twelve years ago) link
awesome, I'm glad that's settled. let's go play golf
― Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:38 (twelve years ago) link
ok i can ~walk~ across the street and meet you at the course
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:39 (twelve years ago) link
that's actually my lawn
― iatee, Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:40 (twelve years ago) link
stop holding iatees hand
― max, Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:40 (twelve years ago) link
everyone should be embarrassed by what is going on itt
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:41 (twelve years ago) link
j0rdan isn't allowed on my lawn
― iatee, Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:41 (twelve years ago) link
i dont think theres anything embarrassing about having the exact same argument with granny dainger for the fortieth time in the same thread
― max, Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:46 (twelve years ago) link
iatee can i get you to say there may--MAY--be a way to have mid-density areas that are sustainable?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:49 (twelve years ago) link
absolutely
ps my idea of mid-density is san francisco
― iatee, Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:50 (twelve years ago) link
well if i'm going to have to live in a city, it is going to have to have beautiful scenery and weed-delivery services
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 18:57 (twelve years ago) link
but if you want me to respond to whatever you're imagining, you'd have to give some measure and context. sustainable depends on overall consumption - dude living in the middle of the forest can live an emissions free lifestyle in a not-particularly-dense world. and it's not that people in hyper-dense manhattan live anywhere close to sustainable lifestyles atm (lol, rich people), but they'd have to give up less on the path to sustainability. so yes, people at any level of density can, in theory, pay off their externalities on the world. and if you're willing and able to pay 13/g for gas, well, that's a good start.
― iatee, Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:09 (twelve years ago) link
13/g gas would effect more than suburb dwellers, don't know if that's something you really wanna be shooting for
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:34 (twelve years ago) link
it's not a matter of 'shooting for' but rather determining what the cost actually is, how it is paid, and who pays for it
― mookieproof, Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:42 (twelve years ago) link
the thing is, though, that 13/g gas is not something we can choose to want or not, it's pretty much inevitable if not within the next 10 years then certainly within the next 20. unless we start magically finding vast new sources of oil or maybe God can create a bunch of dinosaurs and kill them and convert their carcasses into hydrocarbons within the next 5 years
― Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:43 (twelve years ago) link
stop being so callous
― max, Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
sorry I should have thought more about the fate of the dinosaurs
― Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:46 (twelve years ago) link
wait can god create the dinosaurs but let me kill them?
― k3vin k., Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:48 (twelve years ago) link
would be kinda epic
and that doesn't even start to consider the question of should we americans consume resources at a pace that far outpaces the rest of the developed world (except for tiny oil rich places in the middle east which use oil to flush their toilets with)
― Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:48 (twelve years ago) link
my whole life could be like the faerie queene
― k3vin k., Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:51 (twelve years ago) link
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.USE.ELEC.KH.PChttp://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.USE.PCAP.KG.OE
like the only countries that consistently use as much power as or more than the US are middle eastern oil kingdoms and scandinavian countries (I guess cause it's cold all the damn time and they don't want to freeze to death)
damn scandos
― Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:52 (twelve years ago) link
and canada
― iatee, Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:53 (twelve years ago) link
aussies too but they are forgiven because it is really fun to ride jeeps in the outback, in fact it's compulsory
― Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:53 (twelve years ago) link
this is why we need to make more transit-oriented megacities in coastal california
― iatee, Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
also you can ignore those other countries because combined I'm not sure their populations would approach even 1/6 of america's
― Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
oh damn 35 million people live in canada... who knew... okay maybe 1/4
― Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 19:57 (twelve years ago) link
and like iatee said it's not a question about what we want to do it's a question about what we can afford to do. like I want to live in an airship, it would be really rad - but I can't afford it. but if all of a sudden the gov passed a national law that said "dayo and only dayo can construct and build an airship and we will subsidize 99% of the cost" then fuck yeah, I'm gonna take out a loan and build an airship.
btw do any of ya'll want to come and hang out on my airship, I've got xbox 360
― Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:01 (twelve years ago) link
don't make this about our military-industrial complex
― iatee, Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:02 (twelve years ago) link
speaking of industrial policy, another take on things:
http://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/special-interests-and-the-general-interest/
― iatee, Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:03 (twelve years ago) link
like I want to live in an airship, it would be really rad - but I can't afford it.
cute lil analogy bro but right now there are not millions of people and businesses based in airships. there are, however, in suburbs.
people right now are driving 15mpg SUVs. i don't think in just 20 yrs it's gonna go from that to motor vehicles as a whole being unaffordable. anyway i don't know why y'all are still obsessed with gasolina. 4th time:
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:11 (twelve years ago) link
...
― Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:14 (twelve years ago) link
right. i just got the impression that iatee thinks 13/g gas would be a good thing.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:19 (twelve years ago) link
a. an environmentally sustainable world would be 'a good thing'b. 13/g gas would be 'a very bad thing' for the american economy
― iatee, Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:23 (twelve years ago) link
i dont get what were supposed to do with that sentence you keep quoting
― max, Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:24 (twelve years ago) link
it would be a good thing insofar as the true cost of oil would be laid bare and we would be forced to plan around it, would be a kickstart to plans of upgrading america's public transportation system. the question is now, do you amputate the foot, or do you wait until gangrene sets in and lose the leg. (to give you another cute lil analogy, bro, since you seem to love them)
― Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:24 (twelve years ago) link
oh max just keep making snappy terse rejoiners, it's brilliant
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:44 (twelve years ago) link
rejoinders too
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:45 (twelve years ago) link
he's not joking we have no idea what kind of response you're expecting
― iatee, Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:46 (twelve years ago) link
you keep banging on about car-dependent suburbs when i've already said i think they're very problematic
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:49 (twelve years ago) link
hard to tell when the brilliant wit that is max is 'joking'
please don't rejoin us tho max
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:50 (twelve years ago) link
no, but really, what do you want as a response to that sentence [only kind of a joke]
― max, Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:51 (twelve years ago) link
like that sentence, the bit before the semicolon is basically "what is going to happen over the next century regardless of what posters on the internet say, barring the invention and mass production of the solar-powered riding mower" and the bit after is "a good way to ease the transition" [there is a joke in this post but the thrust of it is fairly serious]
― max, Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:53 (twelve years ago) link
ok i'm saying i am in favor of those 2 things, and wondering what other major acts would need to occur in order to have sustainable suburbs.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 20:54 (twelve years ago) link
cause there being nothing but rural, small town, and urban (the density cutoff being San Fran) isn't realistic imo. yes yes what we can afford will dictate blah blah but i think we can plan/arrange things so town-center, public-trans based suburbs can work in the long-term. i get that y'all are not invested in thinking about that because you prefer an urban lifestyle and basically fuck all who don't.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 21:00 (twelve years ago) link
um basically SAY 'fuck all who don't'
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 18 September 2011 21:01 (twelve years ago) link