Given the feeding of cattle and other edible animals is essentially the single biggest facet of factory farming - and all domestic animal production/consumption - I think the odd carrot or two would not suffice. If millions of cows, chickens, pigs, etc., were simply released, they'd either starve or die other horrible deaths. Unless everyone adopted several as pets. Which would be kind of funny. Can only imagine my neighbor with the chickens tethering a cow in the backyard.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:08 (twelve years ago) link
I don't think anyone can argue that hard drugs like cocaine represent anything less than the epitome of selfishness and have no benefit to society. Though of course, lots of things fall in that category.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:09 (twelve years ago) link
if we're really discussing ridiculous hypothetical plans for worldwide vegetarianism i presume it would be done in some controlled "let's eat what we have and not breed any more" kinda way, rather than letting billions of domesticated cattle run wild and free and slowly die of starvation and neglect.
― ledge, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:12 (twelve years ago) link
and all of us our intimately tied to a global system that is in myriad ways brutal, even yr vegan bro didnt do coke thered be something else they used that was linked to causing suffering, the thing is altering their individual purchasing habits will prob not help the problem at all
btw what im NOT saying is 'theres nothing anyone can do' - in reality i think there is def some benefit to being judicious as to what you buy even if its often more of a global mindspace effect rather than a supply and demand one - and on a related note its kind of interesting in todays world that people might see what they consume as so central to their identity as moral being
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:14 (twelve years ago) link
LOL at the idea of a systematic, organized let's eat everything and be done with it campaign.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:15 (twelve years ago) link
wild cattle might be kinda cool tho, they have them india, people just have to start littering more so they have something to eat is all
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:15 (twelve years ago) link
"Do Your Part Today: Eat a Cow."
"Don't Like To Eat Meat? Think Of The Animals!"
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:16 (twelve years ago) link
"Only 143475674 Cows to Go!"
The could have a countdown clock.
all the little cows that will never be born is who im worried abt
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:17 (twelve years ago) link
guess my point is that 'moral stands' that are super easy to make have little to no real world impact and are enthusiastically deployed to cast others in a harsh light are prob not really moral, theyre more 'entertainment'
if my personal contribution to (current global disaster scenario x) makes no difference (tragedy of the commons etc), isn't taking a moral stand more likely to have a real world impact - if you manage to persuade someone that x is bad, and they stop xing and maybe start taking a public stand themselves, and persuade someone else, etc...
― ledge, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:21 (twelve years ago) link
the thing is altering their individual purchasing habits will prob not help the problem at all
idk. Cocaine is a social drug. If there was a concerted push to change the way it is viewed in a social context, that might start to have an impact on consumption. It won't solve all the problems but demand is as important as supply in tackling the issue.
It's unrealistic to imagine that everyone's going to stop doing it but, at the very least, people need to be made aware of the issues.
― Mohombi Khush Hua (ShariVari), Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:24 (twelve years ago) link
no i actually think advocacy is one of the most important things we can do for issues we find important, i guess its maybe personally i find a lot of overtly moralistic arguments surrounding consumption p small minded and unconvincing, particularly re drugs iirc the 'dont do drugs' tact has been tried a lil bit in the past
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:25 (twelve years ago) link
cocine is an interesting one cause its really really more than other comparable things a policy issue, unlike producing meat theres no reason why any being particularly has to suffer to create cocaine
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:27 (twelve years ago) link
xp Is it the same people with a different message, though?
This seems to be coming from a different place - particularly given that the solution anti-coke people usually come up with is legalisation.
― Mohombi Khush Hua (ShariVari), Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:28 (twelve years ago) link
tbf calling yr congressman once prob will have most irl impact than not doing coke, of course most people not doing coke on moral grounds prob just dont want to do coke
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:29 (twelve years ago) link
what if everyone who doesn't do coke says they'll get behind it and start using their share once its ethically sourced, cf the spike in people eating their five a day on account of smoothies
― mr. vertical (schlump), Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:31 (twelve years ago) link
xp, A political solution's the only long-term end but a reduction in social acceptability / demand is the best we can hope for at the moment.
I know a few people who stopped doing coke for this reason.
― Mohombi Khush Hua (ShariVari), Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:34 (twelve years ago) link
just say lol
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 29 September 2011 13:36 (twelve years ago) link
if everyone just learned how to get high off superiority we could end the drug problem right here right now
― iatee, Thursday, 29 September 2011 15:14 (twelve years ago) link
morality and the globalized consumer landscape
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 29 September 2011 15:17 (twelve years ago) link
man I'm so w/deej here on a lot of this stuff it's not even funny
ppl who are always griefing about "oh no, self-righteousness, what could be worse than self-rightousness" are 10,000x worse than people who're trying to spread some good either through discussion or action and who come off a little self-righteous - worrying about whether somebody comes off wrong in the pursuit of good is like complaining that the person who helped raise a barn was wearing the wrong kind of shoes
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 29 September 2011 15:32 (twelve years ago) link
barns are v. inefficient living spaces
― iatee, Thursday, 29 September 2011 15:33 (twelve years ago) link
j0hn we have a new thread morality and the globalized consumer landscape totally ready for some self righteous jerks to post inside of
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 29 September 2011 15:35 (twelve years ago) link
no iatee I meant barn in the swedish sense of the word, my bad
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 29 September 2011 15:38 (twelve years ago) link
― iatee, Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:33 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark
Geir Home-gro
― rustic italian flatbread, Thursday, 29 September 2011 15:42 (twelve years ago) link
yeah except I don't think anyone is going to quit doing coke because they didn't consider what the source was
I mean you can condescend on people who drive SUVs or eat too much red meat or whatever, the point is the change really has to come at a larger level so this discussion is kinda useless
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 September 2011 15:55 (twelve years ago) link
it's condescend to
― strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Thursday, 29 September 2011 15:57 (twelve years ago) link
lol
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 29 September 2011 15:57 (twelve years ago) link
yeah I don't know what I was thinking there
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 September 2011 15:58 (twelve years ago) link
this thread makes me want to barf like 800x over
― Art Arfons (La Lechera), Thursday, 29 September 2011 15:59 (twelve years ago) link
cosigh
― rustic italian flatbread, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:04 (twelve years ago) link
good point you guys
― ice cr?m, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:05 (twelve years ago) link
I'm contemptuous of the smug entitlement to euphoria of many first-world cocaine users but i think the desire for said euphoria is pretty ubiquitous and I'm equally contemptuous of the patriarchal desire to forbid something as simple to grow and make as cocaine; the forbidding is what has jacked the price and that's more the root of the evil as anything else.
― What does one wear to a summery execution? Linen? (Michael White), Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:12 (twelve years ago) link
good point you guysno really, thank you.
― Art Arfons (La Lechera), Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:14 (twelve years ago) link
oh come on there's a little enjoyment to be had in the fact that a thread about drugs turned into a 200 post stoned dorm room bullshit marathon with two guys talking past each other for hours at like 2 am.
― strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:17 (twelve years ago) link
i think the whole "well i'm suspicious about the motives and/or superiority complex of anti-drug/anti-drug violence crusaders and also most of you guys eat cow" is an interesting way to analyze in terms of human psychology but i'm also suspicious of that argument being used as a method to distract from the points being raised, cf. al gore warning about climate change and right-wingers pointing the finger at his private jet and all "btw didn't you claim to invent the internet?" most def the history of anti-drug (and alcohol) movements are filled with puritanical and iron-fisted creeps who like to feel morally superior so it's an understandable take. i agree w/ aerosmith's second-to-last post, basically.
― omar little, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:19 (twelve years ago) link
So anthropocentric!
― What does one wear to a summery execution? Linen? (Michael White), Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:20 (twelve years ago) link
Maybe we shoud give the cocaine to the cows. How does that parse ethically?
― What does one wear to a summery execution? Linen? (Michael White), Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:21 (twelve years ago) link
Like, would you eat veal if you knew that cow had been high to the gills his entire life?
― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:24 (twelve years ago) link
And would you eat a cow that had gills. ~think about it~
nope, sorry -- sounds more like a symptom of the problem more than anything else. way to get distracted. at least i can honestly say that i have contacted a legislator directly about this issue and raised awareness. i am not a morally superior puritan or an iron-fisted creep btw.
― Art Arfons (La Lechera), Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:25 (twelve years ago) link
xp You prob already are, don't tomatoes already have fish DNA in them?
― Octavia Butler's gonna be piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiised (Laurel), Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:26 (twelve years ago) link
bingo bingo gringo
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:27 (twelve years ago) link
al gore's kinda dipshit when it comes to this stuff, tbh. ~pr matters~ and he knew that enough to...make a movie. now that he's the public face of something - which was entirely voluntary - of course he's going to be the easiest person to call out for hypocrisy. if you want to be the world's spokesperson w/r/t global warming, you should probably play the part.
― iatee, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
i think accusing folks who feel certain ways about drugs of wanting to feel morally superior is a pretty nice political tactic but doesn't really change the core issue.
― omar little, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:29 (twelve years ago) link
you see my point though xp
the lesson here is grow your own drugs
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:30 (twelve years ago) link
I'm contemptuous of the smug entitlement to euphoria of many first-world cocaine users
I think this has been pointed out before but it's really not their fault the whole industry is so corrupt and violent.
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:32 (twelve years ago) link