Should there be a 'Sarah's Law'?

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Parental abuse is important cos a) it counts for most abuse (if you believe the stats) and b) it's not being talked about currently, at the mo (in case you hadn't noticed) it's ALL PEDERASTS ARE STRANGE MEN WHO ABDUCT YOUR CHILDREN WHILE THE AUTHORITIES ARE HELD BACK BY POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD! Looking at the stats, stranger danger is so tiny as to almost be irrelevant. Considering the nature of families and the checks and balances therein, the power structures etc is so much more complicated than THE SUN SEZ HANG EM ITS THE ONLY LANGUAGE THEY UNDERSTAND PEDO SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which is the current level of debate.

DG, Friday, 14 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

parental molesters who make up a far far smaller proportion of parents over-all than the proportion of stranger paedophiles do to paedophiles over-all

even if this enumeration is true, these aren't "equivalent" proportions: you shd be comparing [parental molesters: parents over- all] with [stranger molesters: strangers over-all].

surely one of the reasons some many shy away from lookng hard at the problem of in-family abuse is that WHATEVER the course of action, it tends to be nightmarishly complex and produce victims of a variety of kinds (on one hand, continued abuse of members of a family; on the other, broken-up families, single parents on the poverty line, rifts within family where one child is abused, another sides with so-called abuser etc etc), whereas locking up Sarah Payne's killer — and similar friendless loners — seems straight-forwardly win-win. They have no family, friends, dependents: there are no innocent bystanders.

If it's true that abuse produces abusers, the currently somewhat overlooked majority of abuse — eg within families — is the point at which the social problems (which *include* stranger abuse but are not generated by it) eventually needs addressing. It has to be said that attempts to do this in the past — the notorious cases in Cleveland? — have been a catastrophe.

mark s, Friday, 14 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

The kind of abuse which causes abusers is not generally stranger abuse - rather the idea that abuse within the family is normalised as it is rarely dealt with is such a morally simplistic manner. Abuse by loved ones is difficult because whilst they abuse us physically they also abuse our concepts of love and trust. Which later can lead to a similar abuse of love and trust of others.

Sarah's Law will not help for all the reasons placed above, but also it may well increase levels of vigilantism not to mention create exactly the kinds of stigma and stress which may trigger someone to re-offend.

Pete, Friday, 14 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Pete is right. If you are a pedo with a wish to reoffend, which is safer for children, for you to be thinking "OK, I want to do this but I know it's wrong, I dont want to be found out and jeopardise my place in society", or for you to be thinking "Everyone hates me and will hurt and kill me and is sure I will reoffend anyway so I may as well". Pragmatism suggests the former is safer even if it implies moral compromise.

Tom, Friday, 14 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

What if this same man has another family thing too? Will he go out to kill again.? I think he would definately be capeable of it! He's timebomb! Then I think too that some men kill because they CAN! Here is one for you, When I was about three-4 years old, a baby of about my age was discovered in a trunk of a car( in pieces) I didn't know him, but I remember his name to this day.:( Should these men walk the streets? If you were a parent would you have him walking the steets?

Gale Deslongchamps, Friday, 14 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

'Some men kill because they can' : Seems rather sensationalist to me...

Bill, Friday, 14 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Well as I said upthread, my position is that compulsive child abusers are mentally ill and should be in hospitals, outside society, until they can be cured, or for life if they can't be cured. They should be treated in the same way as any other dangerously ill individual. But if you are going to let them out then the very very last thing you want to do is make them feel they have nothing to lose.

Tom, Friday, 14 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

And this is precisely what it boils down to, in fact. These people should be treated until what time (if ever) they no longer pose a danger to our children.

This is why it is far better that they are removed from the criminal system altogether, which have scant regard for such lofty and high- minded ideals as rehabilitation. They'll release someone when they reach the end of their sentence, it's as simple as that. Likelihood of reoffending only ever gets addressed at parole board meetings.

Pederasts are therefore far better dealt with by the medical profession. Someone sectioned under the Mental Health Act 1983 will be detained indefinitely, until in the opinion of at least two doctors they are fit for release.

Which brings me back to my original point - what we need to deal effectively with these people is a medically AND legally accepted definition of pederasty.

And Judges need to stop speaking with so-called authority on medical issues. In sentencing Sarah's killer, the Judge unhelpfully commented that he did not consider the accused to be mentally ill, as he had exhibited clear-headedness throughout. Such remarks prevent sex offenders from being treated for mental health issues, as legally they are regarded as completely sane. In my view this cannot be right.

Trevor, Friday, 14 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

DG, I agree that Sarah's Law is a bad idea which would encourage sink-estate lynch-mobs and be counterproductive to rehabilitation, but there must be something seriously wrong with the current legal set-up if a predatory paedophile can abduct a child at knife-point, sexually abuse her for hours, serve only two years for it and then go on to kill. Isn't that cause for justified outrage? What bothers me is the implication that the concern this case has generated is some kind of simple-minded knee-jerk moral hysteria from people who would happily brush the real problem under the carpet. Yes, abuse within families is a hellishly complex problem to address and if the same were true of stranger abuse then it would be reasonable to focus attention on the larger problem first, but the fact that there are straightforward practical measures (renewable sentences, say) which can be put in place to help protect at least some children from these appalling crimes (which are not 'irrelevant' so long as they happen at all) is precisely what justifies the demands for action made by people whose outcry over this case and cases like it in no way means they wouldn't like to see abuse tackled wherever it occurs.

On the mental illness point - paedophiles have abnormal innate desires but is there any evidence that this leads to them being fundamentally less capable of choosing whether or not to act on their desires? It's not as if they hear voices ordering them to molest children.

noah, Friday, 14 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link


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