The only perfect city was Kowloon, wasn't it?
― pplains, Monday, 5 March 2012 16:24 (twelve years ago) link
I will call out 4th Avenue as a nom. for most miserable (north) Brooklyn streetin Manhattan, Houston takes some kind of award. especially at the eastern end it's just vast swaths of pavement, gas stations, and towers-among-parks deadness
― lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Monday, 5 March 2012 16:24 (twelve years ago) link
I love how the urban planning guys were drooling over it! xpost
― lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Monday, 5 March 2012 16:25 (twelve years ago) link
on first look I was thinking "oh, how nice, it's not a dark occluded area like narrow streets between buildings are"
on second look, I realized that it looks more open but the green space is between rows of traffic and is completely inaccessible! if you wanted to water those trees or perform maintenance then you're going to have to close down some lanes of traffic, anyway
these are really, really not parks people hang out in, as you can see in the 2nd pic they're more comparable to freeway landscaping. whereas the darkest occluded areas with narrow streets in manhattan are the places people like to walk / some of the most desirable real estate in the country.
http://www.cityprofile.com/forum/attachments/new-york/9808-new-york-greenwich-village.jpg
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 16:25 (twelve years ago) link
wish it all looked like this, really:http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7070/6851297839_6a1c47aea3_z.jpg
― lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Monday, 5 March 2012 16:26 (twelve years ago) link
the islands in the middle of park ave are really just the places where you hand out annoyed while you wait for the signal to change/a break in the endless rushing traffic. and I think are only there to provide venting space for the metro north trains below.
― lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Monday, 5 March 2012 16:27 (twelve years ago) link
"hand out" = "hang out"
― lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Monday, 5 March 2012 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
houston and delancey are prob the worst considering how dense the pedestrian traffic is around there. they're not 'worse' than 12th avenue and def better than some outer borough roads, but they're pretty awful.
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
I've been riding along with the thought that backyard land should be minimized, and if you want your kid to play somewhere, take them to a playground. Seeing 12 playground sets on one city block is a bit outrageous, and don't get me started on every house having a pool.
BUT the right to own all that shouldn't be taken away or penalized. It all boils down to security and time. I can watch the kids play in safety from my window while doing housework, something I can't do at a public playground.
I was thinking about laundromats for some reason, how I was happy that I didn't have go through that horrible ritual anymore because I now have a 200 sq-ft laundry room. I can put the clothes in the washer and go about my business. I don't have to sit in front of it. No one's going to steal it. If I forget about it, no one's going to take my wet clothes out and put them in a pile. I can save energy by doing them at night instead of during the day. It's all about safety and time, two things every American is taught to expect from this country and why we defend it.
Still thinking it out, but it's a slippery slope in some ways.
― pplains, Monday, 5 March 2012 16:32 (twelve years ago) link
xxxxxp If the buildings on all streets were only 3 stories high, I wouldn't mind a bit, but is that dense enough for what you have in mind??
― drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Monday, 5 March 2012 16:33 (twelve years ago) link
― lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Monday, 5 March 2012 16:24 (4 minutes ago) Permalink
I think Metropolitan Ave, which I live on, is pretty bad. I mean it's not so terrible between the water and Grahm, I guess but then it gets gross. Actually Williamsburg in general I find really ugly -- it is so clearly not designed for living, and even massive gentrification hasn't changed that impression.
Metropolitan Ave further east into queens just makes me want to cry though.
― simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Monday, 5 March 2012 16:33 (twelve years ago) link
medium-sized backyards aren't as bad as front yards, which turn every suburban neighborhood into v. unfriendly epic avenues
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 16:36 (twelve years ago) link
here's a wealthy paris suburb:
http://media.photobucket.com/image/paris%20dense%20suburbs/ed1976aus/streetviews/StGermainEnLaye.jpg
vs.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/city-vs-city/60362d1269902473-where-prettiest-suburbs-new-subdivisions-america-yucaipa-ca.jpg
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 16:44 (twelve years ago) link
er
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww245/ed1976aus/streetviews/StGermainEnLaye.jpg
Kowloon's walled city is/was such a great obsession because it's what happens when growth occurs unchecked by laws and building codes.
― valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, 5 March 2012 16:46 (twelve years ago) link
everyone's fav. urbanism example Paris is also a good demonstration of how high density doesn't require full-on high rises, or the necessary loss of older housing stock. but a city built to paris standards of density, street width, transit, etc. even without the charming older architecture would be a very pleasant place to live.
― lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Monday, 5 March 2012 17:03 (twelve years ago) link
yup
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
It's not seen as frequently as in Europe, but I still see those tiny front yards around the U.S. I'm not much of a front yard guy either since all it's good for is to look at the street.
This is a not-too-shabby middle-class neighborhood in my town, for example.
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/5784/screenshot20120305at110.png
― pplains, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:05 (twelve years ago) link
xp if anything, people overrate the extent that paris' 'prettiness' makes the city
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:05 (twelve years ago) link
by the way, I can see how the thread title itself is gonna put people off. I know it's basically the "future of urban planning in consideration of enviro concerns" thread at this point but that "people who" bit has gotta be a bit of a sore point.
― lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Monday, 5 March 2012 17:19 (twelve years ago) link
Huh, it's almost like you've read all 3400 posts to this thread.
― drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Monday, 5 March 2012 17:20 (twelve years ago) link
that's just part of the charm now
xp
― goole, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:20 (twelve years ago) link
Sometimes I think old-style walking suburb is the ideal living circumstance -- medium density, low-rise living with parks, restaurants, shopping etc. all in walking distance. Basically I'm talking about brownstone brooklyn. My only problem with new walking suburbs is that they tend to be kind of ugly and sterile.
― simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Monday, 5 March 2012 17:21 (twelve years ago) link
brooklyn def the ideal suburb
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
I'm pretty sure I've read all 3400 posts yup.
― lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Monday, 5 March 2012 17:28 (twelve years ago) link
maybe we need a new urban policy/fuck you and your yard type thread
― goole, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:30 (twelve years ago) link
'fuck you and your yard' would be a decent title I guess
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:32 (twelve years ago) link
I think the sterility of some new developments comes from the fact that they're often a single fully planned "development" instead of a natural accumulation of buildings.
― lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Monday, 5 March 2012 17:32 (twelve years ago) link
"The ghosts of le corbusier and the guy who first marketed the Hummer fistfight in hell: urban planning 2012"
― goole, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:32 (twelve years ago) link
sounds good goole go4it
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:33 (twelve years ago) link
"Yard Stalinism, Bike Lane Revanchism, and what's the price of unleaded in billings MT"
xp no way man this is your show!
― goole, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:34 (twelve years ago) link
I've made too many threads lately plus if I make it people know it's at trap
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:40 (twelve years ago) link
a trap
'the dude abodes: suburbs 2012'?
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:41 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah sure except it's going to annoy me every time I see it wtf.
― drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Monday, 5 March 2012 17:43 (twelve years ago) link
lol i'm always in favor of a lebowski ref
xp ok well there's one vote against
― goole, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:44 (twelve years ago) link
idg tbl
― drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Monday, 5 March 2012 17:44 (twelve years ago) link
No, it's short and good, go for it.
― drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Monday, 5 March 2012 17:45 (twelve years ago) link
ill miss this thread
― max, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:49 (twelve years ago) link
new threads tend to be ugly and sterile
― max, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:50 (twelve years ago) link
3k isn't unmanageable tbh we could fit at least a few more clusterfuck days in this
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:50 (twelve years ago) link
sorry guys not trying to talk you all out of this thread
― lou reed scott walker monks niagra (chinavision!), Monday, 5 March 2012 17:54 (twelve years ago) link
on 2nd thought it's in the spirit of this thread to be overcrowded
― goole, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:55 (twelve years ago) link
haha I was just gonna make a thread-sprawl joke
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:55 (twelve years ago) link
ilx 2001: http://www.destination360.com/europe/italy/images/s/italy-florence.jpg
ilx 2012: http://www.lasmogtown.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/los-angeles-urban-sprawl-jpeg-lasmogtowncom.jpg
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 17:56 (twelve years ago) link
I think that makes max jane jacobs
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 18:02 (twelve years ago) link
ive always said that about myself
― max, Monday, 5 March 2012 18:10 (twelve years ago) link
great Las Vegas development time lapse:http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsfc/6955987375/
― I DIED, Monday, 5 March 2012 18:18 (twelve years ago) link
the 00s esp tragic
so this is a 'thing': http://www.theatlanticcities.com/technology/2012/03/why-driverless-cars-would-be-bad-cities-and-suburbs-alike/1393/
not sure if it merits a thread yet but prob will one day
― iatee, Monday, 5 March 2012 18:21 (twelve years ago) link
"The video even depicts an intersection with a whopping 12 lanes for each roadway, at a time when most transportation professionals have come to believe that grids of smaller roads, not mega-arterials, are the best approach to mobility in metropolitan areas."
yeah no kidding. i have never seen a 12x12 intersection
― goole, Monday, 5 March 2012 18:24 (twelve years ago) link