RIP GORE VIDAL

Vidal is not an insufferable snob...He is just a big reader and intelligent. I mean yeah he is liberal and gay but that doesn't make him a snob but rather pretty awesome

MusicJew158 2 years ago

In Hitchens' (much more complimentary) Vidal essay from the nineties he recounts sitting in a green room with Newt Gingrich and a GOP apparatchik who was fuming over a Vidal column. Gingrich said he would not stand by and let the man who wrote the great Lincoln be insulted.

i got that theory out of "united states" (the essay collection)

i'm fuzzy on the details because it was about 10 years ago when i read it but it was basically just the whole "better as a confederation of states" line and hand-wringing about american empire (whether ruled from ca, ny, tx or dc)

in light of recent congressional deadlock it seems relevant but i don't think that's exactly what he was getting at at the time

lincoln really creates the (modern) u.s. in the novel; there isn't much editorializing about whether or not this is A Good Thing, which is really how i like my history, i guess.

great video. damn bummed about vidal. much love to myra breckenridge and duluth too. really singular guy.

still haven't read Duluth or Creation or Kalki.

i have never read any of his books, which is something rather rare for me— i'm like an encyclopedia of gay literature, or at least i feel like it sometimes

anyway, don't think i'm going to start now.

i've actually only read his essays

where would you start w/ his fiction? i don't want a tome ...

Lincoln
Myra Breckinridge
Burr

in that order

My favourite Gore Vidal clip - I can't find it on YouTube right now - is the chat show where he's explaining to Dick Cavett why he's a homosexual and a virgin. It's all about not having kids. Gore says (and I'm paraphrasing):

"The important thing is to win at being yourself rather than lose at being someone else. If I had kids, I'd have to tell them that. But of course if they followed my advice they'd be losing at being me rather than winning at being themselves. So, in order to follow my advice they'd have to rebel against me by defiantly not rebelling against me, which would, in turn, be rebelling against me, and not rebelling against me, and so on, in a self-devouring recursive loop. And - poof! - my children would be gone, swallowed by the irreconcilable contradiction. Both I and they knew this in advance, and this is why they don't exist."

Cavett clutches his head and says: "Just wait until I tell the kids I'm never going to have about this."

hahahahaha

so Gore, Paul Newman, Joanne Woodward -- best threesome of the '50s?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01521/vidal-joanne-newma_1521207i.jpg

chat show

so Gore, Paul Newman, Joanne Woodward -- best threesome of the '50s?

― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Friday, August 3, 2012 6:27 AM (44 minutes ago)

reading about this kind of broke my brain in the best possible way.

tabes, Gore Vidal is not a Gay Author.

does vidal cover the truman years in any of his novels? (harry, not capote.)

Truman makes a two-page appearance at a train station talking to Vidal's house intellectual in The Golden Age.

kind of amazed at how negative (and occasionally outright untrue) most of the obits collected on A&LD are. i guess a lot of ppl were really waiting for the moment when GV couldn't sue them for libel anymore.

what's A&LD?

arts & letters daily -- www.aldaily.com.

good stuff from time to time, also a lot of crap.

slightly NSFW pic so just a link:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8ciatQPB81rcf0aqo1_500.jpg

a few choice excerpts to promote an interview anthology... On the immediate post-WW2 period:

So here we were, right on the edge of a golden age, all prepared to go, to make civilization, something the United States has never done. We were all dressed up with nowhere to go. Then in 1950, Harry Truman was looking forward to the Cold War, with a new enemy: Communism. He gets us into a disastrous war with Korea, which we promptly lose. And we have been at war ever since, and it has not done our character much good, and it hasn’t been good for business either, except for Wall Street. That’s what I say to the golden age. It was there, in ovum, but you have to sit on the egg, not step on it.

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/06/gore_vidal_told_you_so/

gore OTM on that one, obv.

can't wait for that book!

He did write – repeatedly – that lles années d'après-guerre up to 1950 were the golden age.

not surprising that it was his age 20-25, but also the last time the US war machine was (somewhat) idling.

what war were we fighting between '92 and '00 I forget

1992 – Sierra Leone. Operation Silver Anvil: Following the April 29 coup that overthrew President Joseph Saidu Momoh, a United States European Command (USEUCOM) Joint Special Operations Task Force evacuated 438 people (including 42 third-country nationals) on May 3 .Two Air Mobility Command (AMC) C-141s flew 136 people from Freetown, Sierra Leone, to the Rhein-Main Air Base in Germany and nine C-130 sorties carried another 302 people to Dakar, Senegal.[RL30172]

1992–1996 – Bosnia and Herzegovina: Operation Provide Promise was a humanitarian relief operation in Bosnia and Herzegovina during the Yugoslav Wars, from July 2, 1992, to January 9, 1996, which made it the longest running humanitarian airlift in history.[6]

1992 – Kuwait: On August 3, 1992, the United States began a series of military exercises in Kuwait, following Iraqi refusal to recognize a new border drawn up by the United Nations and refusal to cooperate with UN inspection teams.[RL30172]

1992–2003 – Iraq. Iraqi no-fly zones: The U.S., United Kingdom, and it's Gulf War allies declared and enforced "no-fly zones" over the majority of sovereign Iraqi airspace, prohibiting Iraqi flights in zones in southern Iraq and northern Iraq, and conducting aerial reconnaissance and bombings. Oftentimes, Iraqi forces continued throughout a decade by firing on U.S. and British aircraft patrolling no-fly zones.(See also Operation Northern Watch, Operation Southern Watch) [RL30172]

1992–1995 – Somalia. Operation Restore Hope. Somali Civil War: On December 10, 1992, President Bush reported that he had deployed U.S. armed forces to Somalia in response to a humanitarian crisis and a UN Security Council Resolution in support for UNITAF. The operation came to an end on May 4, 1993. U.S. forces continued to participate in the successor United Nations Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM II).(See also Battle of Mogadishu)[RL30172]

1993-1995 - Bosnia. Operation Deny Flight: On April 12, 1993, in response to a United Nations Security Council passage of Resolution 816, U.S. and NATO enforced the no-fly zone over the Bosnian airspace, prohibited all unauthorized flights and allowed to "take all necessary measures to ensure compliance with [the no-fly zone restrictions]."

1993 – Macedonia: On July 9, 1993, President Clinton reported the deployment of 350 U.S. soldiers to the Republic of Macedonia to participate in the UN Protection Force to help maintain stability in the area of former Yugoslavia.[RL30172]

1994: Bosnia. Banja Luka incident: NATO become involved in the first combat situation when NATO U.S. Air Force F-16 jets shot down four of the six Bosnian Serb J-21 Jastreb single-seat light attack jets for violating UN mandated no-fly zone.

1994–1995 – Haiti. Operation Uphold Democracy: U.S. ships had begun embargo against Haiti. Up to 20,000 U.S. military troops were later deployed to Haiti to restore democratically-elected Haiti President Jean-Bertrand Aristide from a military regime which came into power in 1991 after a major coup.[RL30172]

1994 – Macedonia: On April 19, 1994, President Clinton reported that the U.S. contingent in Macedonia had been increased by a reinforced company of 200 personnel.[RL30172]

1995 – Bosnia. Operation Deliberate Force: In August 30, 1995, U.S. and NATO aircraft began a major bombing campaign of Bosnian Serb Army in response to a Bosnian Serb mortar attack on a Sarajevo market that killed 37 people in August 28, 1995. This operation lasted until September 20, 1995. The air campaign along with a combined allied ground force of Muslim and Croatian Army against Serb positions led to a Dayton agreement in December 1995 with the signing of warring factions of the war. As part of Operation Joint Endeavor, U.S. and NATO dispatched the Implementation Force (IFOR) peacekeepers to Bosnia to uphold the Dayton agreement.[RL30172]

1996 – Liberia. Operation Assured Response: On April 11, 1996, President Clinton reported that on April 9, 1996 due to the "deterioration of the security situation and the resulting threat to American citizens" in Liberia he had ordered U.S. military forces to evacuate from that country "private U.S. citizens and certain third-country nationals who had taken refuge in the U.S. Embassy compound...."[RL30172]

1996 – Central African Republic. Operation Quick Response: On May 23, 1996, President Clinton reported the deployment of U.S. military personnel to Bangui, Central African Republic, to conduct the evacuation from that country of "private U.S. citizens and certain U.S. government employees", and to provide "enhanced security for the American Embassy in Bangui."[RL30172] United States Marine Corps elements of Joint Task Force Assured Response, responding in nearby Liberia, provided security to the embassy and evacuated 448 people, including between 190 and 208 Americans. The last Marines left Bangui on June 22.

1996 - Bosnia. Operation Joint Guard: In December 21, 1996, U.S. and NATO established the SFOR peacekeepers to replace the IFOR in enforcing the peace under the Dayton agreement.

1997 – Albania. Operation Silver Wake: On March 13, 1997, U.S. military forces were used to evacuate certain U.S. government employees and private U.S. citizens from Tirana, Albania.[RL30172]

1997 – Congo and Gabon: On March 27, 1997, President Clinton reported on March 25, 1997, a standby evacuation force of U.S. military personnel had been deployed to Congo and Gabon to provide enhanced security and to be available for any necessary evacuation operation.[RL30172]

1997 – Sierra Leone: On May 29 and May 30, 1997, U.S. military personnel were deployed to Freetown, Sierra Leone, to prepare for and undertake the evacuation of certain U.S. government employees and private U.S. citizens.[RL30172]

1997 – Cambodia: On July 11, 1997, In an effort to ensure the security of American citizens in Cambodia during a period of domestic conflict there, a Task Force of about 550 U.S. military personnel were deployed at Utapao Air Base in Thailand for possible evacuations. [RL30172]

1998 – Iraq. Operation Desert Fox: U.S. and British forces conduct a major four-day bombing campaign from December 16–19, 1998 on Iraqi targets.[RL30172]

1998 – Guinea-Bissau. Operation Shepherd Venture: On June 10, 1998, in response to an army mutiny in Guinea-Bissau endangering the U.S. Embassy, President Clinton deployed a standby evacuation force of U.S. military personnel to Dakar, Senegal, to evacuate from the city of Bissau.[RL30172]

1998–1999 – Kenya and Tanzania: U.S. military personnel were deployed to Nairobi, Kenya, to coordinate the medical and disaster assistance related to the bombing of the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.[RL30172]

1998 – Afghanistan and Sudan. Operation Infinite Reach: On August 20, President Clinton ordered a cruise missile attack against two suspected terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and a suspected chemical factory in Sudan.[RL30172]

1998 – Liberia: On September 27, 1998, America deployed a stand-by response and evacuation force of 30 U.S. military personnel to increase the security force at the U.S. Embassy in Monrovia. [1] [RL30172]

1999–2001 - East Timor: Limited number of U.S. military forces deployed with the United Nations-mandated International Force for East Timor restore peace to East Timor.[RL30172]

1999 – Serbia. Operation Allied Force: U.S. and NATO aircraft began a major bombing of Serbia and Serb positions in Kosovo in March 24, 1999, during the Kosovo War due to the refusal by Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic to end repression against ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. This operation ended in June 10, 1999, when Milosevic agreed to pull out his troops out of Kosovo. In response to the situation in Kosovo, NATO dispatched the KFOR peacekeepers to secure the peace under UNSC Resolution 1244.[RL30172]

2000 – Sierra Leone. On May 12, 2000 a US Navy patrol craft deployed to Sierra Leone to support evacuation operations from that country if needed.[RL30172]

2000 - Nigeria. Special Forces troops are sent to Nigeria to lead a training mission in the county.[7]

2000 – Yemen. On October 12, 2000, after the USS Cole attack in the port of Aden, Yemen, military personnel were deployed to Aden.[RL30172]

2000 – East Timor. On February 25, 2000, a small number of U.S. military personnel were deployed to support the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET).

the Truman Doctrine debuted in '47.

kinda pwned there, Shakes, by all the Clintonian brushfires

I think you'd at least remember Bosnia, Mme Albright itching to use "this wonderful military" or Black Hawk Down

the 90s were pretty crucial as a pretext to our current misadventures and, don't forget, 9/11. or have you already forgotten.

"pretext" isn't correct there, but anyway

yeah those weren't wars sorry guys

he did. he forgot. crank up that darryl worley

at least, not any moreso than whatever hijinks we were up to between the end of WWII and the beginning of the Korean War

xp

presaging of events is what i meant. but really all of that was collectively a vast collection of military actions that may as well have been a "real" war, for how it led to what we're up to now and for how it affected the world's view of us.

like all of us Gore Vidal isn't immune to mythologizing his past

'we weren't at WAR, we just bombed a bunch of other countries. how could you possibly confuse the two?'

i think sometimes what we don't view as war, what we view as a minor action and something we can just go and forget, is viewed by our adversary as war. which is maybe more important to take into consideration than whether or not we viewed it as such.

the serbia thing was pretty crucial in re-legitimizing the idea of 'humanitarian intervention,' and hence played a fairly important role in the leadup to the iraq war.

people not thinking that list constitutes "war" (it's an unnatural thought for 90s-kid me, too!) is the only piece of evidence future anthropologists will need to come to a working understanding of post-ww2 american life

otm. that older definition of war as event has changed its utility has diminished but it's still war and there's more of it than ever. xxp

as its utility

you guys are nuts

the military evacuating some diplomats from Albania /= firebombing of Dresden

let's keep some perspective here

it would be excessive to say that everything there counts as 'war' but come on, a 'four-day bombing campaign'?

barely got their hair mussed, those pissant little countries!

SMC finally comes out as a neolib/neocon whatever warpig-enabler label you wanna use

didn't Billy Blythe ejaculate some bombs immediately after his dress-stain indictment?

I don't deny that you can clearly see the US military "war machine" (as Morbz puts it) in action behind all of those actions when you take them all together, primarily because the scope and scale that they encompass (ie, globe-spanning) requires a functioning military industry. The only distinction I was trying to make was that the US has not been on the unbroken, unending mission of imperialist genocide that Morbz' rhetoric implies. There are gaps, there are peaks and valleys, and they weren't all encapsulated within Gore Vidal's halcyon days of youth.

xp