Israel to World: "Suck It."

i am the viper, i've come to vipe your vindows

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/israelis-shoot-nra-claim-article-1.1226401

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/12/24/israeli-pm-aims-to-deport-tens-of-thousands-of-africans/

(...) aims to repatriate tens of thousands of African illegal migrants (...)

http://i.imgur.com/dsTSB.gif

i am the viper, i've come to vipe your vindows

― before and after broscience (goole), Friday, December 21, 2012 5:54 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

knowing is half the battle

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/150445/Poll%3A-HaBayit-HaYehudi-Gaining-on-Labor-for-Second-Place.html

:|

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/25/naftali-bennett-wants-you.html

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/a-surprising-process-of-israelization-is-taking-place-among-palestinians-in-east-jerusalem.premium-1.490367

rolling middle east 2013 thread

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israel-admits-ethiopian-women-were-given-birth-control-shots.premium-1.496519

thank God they were not permanently sterilized. what was the rationale, irrational though it may have been?

Well I'm not giving them my money so I can read the article, but just off the top of my head: how about RACISM?

oh it was free for me when I linked it, strange

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html

It's okay, it's in plenty of places online. I'd already seen the headline.

Dan Sieradski writes in comments section in the Forward:

You're all missing the most important part of the story: It's not merely that these women were not given informed consent, it's that Israeli authorities allegedly made their effective sterilization a necessary prerequisite of their emigration.

These women claim they were told by Jewish Agency and Joint Distribution Committee staffers that if they did not take the DP shots, they would not be permitted to emigrate to Israel or that their lives there, once they'd arrived, would be unbearably difficult if they had children.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/why-is-the-birth-rate-in-israel-s-ethiopian-community-declining.premium-1.483494

After I posted the above link to Twitter, calling it "the JDC's eugenics program," I got a call from a JDC spokesman saying that they dispute the women's claims about being intimidated by JDC staffers, but added that if a eugenics program did exist, it was the Israeli government and not the JDC that was responsible for it.

I also sent an email to Dr. Rick Hodes, the JDC official who administered the DP shots in Ethiopia, asking what his reasoning was. His response was that he was making contraception available only at the women's request and that there was no coercion involved whatsoever.
http://d.1ski.me/image/19222v1a1U3L

A representative for the Ethiopian women in Israel making the allegations against the JDC and Jewish Agency said that he is lying, but could provide no evidence apart from the women's testimonies.

It seems pretty obvious that Gamzu issued the letter because there was a claim that it was forced on women, not because he was "admitting" that Israel gave forcible birth control. Obviously if they had instructed Israeli doctors to force (???) the 4-month lasting depo-provera on Ethiopian women for racist reasons that is hideous and gross. I'll wait until a newspaper a little better than the Haaretz breaks the story, though. (Remember when they reported on the front page that England recalled their ambassador last month? Headline quickly changed two days later. They're terrible at breaking news.)

well all they'd have to do is show that they'd been giving Depo-Provera shots to all immigrants no matter of race. But why the fuck would they do that?

"Nobody from inside JDC or the Israeli Ministry of Health, (or anyone else) has ever suggested that we coerce women to use family planning. Women may start, change methods, or stop, at any time. When we offered this as a service, women took advantage of it."

Al-J and Haaretz are pretty much only two media outlets I read re Middle East. Not because I think either are 'fair' towards Israel (neither are) but bc they seem to be the only two actually producing worthwhile first hand journalism.

― Mordy, Tuesday, 27 November 2012

What can I say? They've since started publishing really shitty journalism.

Terrible unsourced stories that don't get covered elsewhere and that they later withdraw. Even this story fails to interview anyone in Israeli government, leads with a headline that isn't backed by the story, etc.

You have to read all journalism critically, but these days Haaretz gets a lot more scrutiny from me than the NYT (or even Al-J non-opinion news).

And I'm sure Israel covers Depo-Provera for all citizens, not just all immigrants, because they have universal healthcare.

Here's some coverage of Gabai's story from when it first broke:
http://blogs.forward.com/sisterhood-blog/167445/shocking-decline-in-ethiopian-israeli-birthrate/

I'm personally skeptical. I don't doubt that some women may have been given it w/out knowing what it was, and wouldn't even be surprised if I found out that individual racist doctors did this, but as a huge conspiracy between independent Jewish refugee groups, immigration groups and the Israeli government? That would be an insane conspiracy for what? A temporary birth-control method?

Alternatively you could explain the population drop by them moving from a third world country with very poor family planning and high poverty to a first world country with universal healthcare. Like the rest of the western world: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/01/world_population_may_actually_start_declining_not_exploding.html

But no, I'm sure that in the midst of the Palestinian demographic boom Israel is definitely conspiring to cut down on the number of African Jews. Man, they're not just Nazis but the worst Nazis ever.

I just can't see any good reason they would be giving this shot to immigrants at all, let alone without consent/informing them what they were taking. Offer it, sure, but make them take it? That makes no sense and is counter-intuitive for a country that invited these thousands of immigrants in the first place, which is why this doesn't quite pass the smell test. But if there's any truth to this that's fucked up.

For the record, Depo itself is pretty harmless (aside from preventing babies, of course). My wife took it for several months, but it promoted unwanted weight gain, iirc.

"no evidence apart from the women's testimonies"

max's scare quotes incredibly otm

35 anonymous testimonials does not a conspiracy make.

I considered that, Mordy - secondhand reporting of anonymous testimony drawn from a very small pool is some dubious methodology - but it's kind of irrelevant, since the Israeli government (Health Ministry Director General Prof. Ron Gamzu) already essentially admitted the practice, however pervasive, by introducing new Depo shot guidelines specifically with regard to Ethiopian immigrants. Still, lots of hedging in the way this is being reported. In the LA Times, for example:

Gal Gabbay, who reported that Jewish Ethiopian women awaiting emigration to Israel in transit camps in Ethiopia were coaxed into the treatment with little medical explanation and led to understand this was a condition for moving to Israel.

Coaxed or forced? Little medical information or none? Led to understand or outright told? Etc. Hopeful there will be a more thorough investigation.

They didn't admit the practice. Gamzu responded to accusations by releasing guidelines that reaffirmed that treatment should not be given if there's a concern that the patient did not consent or did not understand. That does not equal "Israel admits to forcibly giving birth control."

Haaretz published an extract from a letter sent by the Ministry of Health to units administering the drug. Doctors were told “not to renew prescriptions for Depo Provera for women of Ethiopian origin if for any reason there is concern that they might not understand the ramifications of the treatment”.

This does not sound like Israel is admitting any kind of official policy. Haaretz (and the Independent and whoever else is running the story this way) is intentionally writing a dramatic, unsubstantiated lead that is not supported by any of the reporting.

Like Israel ever admits anything, but fair enough,

Lots of circumstantial ugliness here all the same.

Another element in the doubt column: how quickly/conveniently it's begun circulating that Israel somehow practiced sterilization or eugenics, neither of which is accurate. I can see why the country might want to get ahead of this, but clearly they're already lagging on the clearing things up front. What's the story of the doc that sparked all this? Legit filmmaker? Legit broadcaster?

We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding mission appointed by the U.N. Human Rights Council that produced what has come to be known as the Goldstone Report. If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document.

The final report by the U.N. committee of independent experts — chaired by former New York judge Mary McGowan Davis — that followed up on the recommendations of the Goldstone Report has found that “Israel has dedicated significant resources to investigate over 400 allegations of operational misconduct in Gaza” while “the de facto authorities (i.e., Hamas) have not conducted any investigations into the launching of rocket and mortar attacks against Israel.”

Yeah, Israel never investigates its own behavior, or has an independent judicial system, or admits anything. </sarcasm>

She's a journalist who has not uncovered anything new since she made these claims two years ago. This story broke no new information. It's only being picked up by the kind of people who would rather bump the Israel to World: Suck It thread over the rolling middle east thread.

xpost That's a ridiculous thing to cite, Mordy. One, I'm not talking about how forthcoming Israel is compared to Hamas. Two, demonstrating the thoroughness of Israeli investigation by citing an investigation that proved Israeli was thorough is tautological. All countries are loathe to admit error, let alone apologize, for mistakes and vast oversights. It takes decades. But Israel has always seemed more recalcitrant to me than others, whether or not it's for good reason.

My point was that it's a Western country with an independent judiciary and a history of investigating charges made against it.

Unless you believe that Haaretz has sources* that they're not naming, or mentioning, in their article (some kind of deep background that is totally off the page) I don't see how you can give any credibility to the claims of the article. The very headline is contradicted by their reporting. Anyone who could cite the article w/out noting the incredible problems w/ the way it was reported needs to brush up on critical reading imo.

*This is the kind of thing that Haaretz has totally lost credibility on, ime. If the NYT ran a story like this I'd be much more inclined to wonder what kind of sourcing they have on background. Haaretz has a bad reputation for running stories that aren't correctly or properly sourced. This seems to be another example.

It's only being picked up by the kind of people who would rather bump the Israel to World: Suck It thread over the rolling middle east thread.

as opposed to ppl who would like us not to notice that Israel is still telling the world to suck it.

I don't give credibility to the specific article - it's terribly lacking in sources/clarity, which makes its circulation all the more troubling i par for the course when it comes to anything negative about Israel - but I find it telling that the official Israeli response was not simply outright denial but a revision of its birth control application policies. Again, at the very least, I wonder why birth control even came into the immigration picture at all. "Hello, welcome to Israel. Would you like a birth control shot?"

Because family planning is included in universal healthcare?

Israel outright denied this report when it first came out. Look at the links I posted above.

As would be expected, the Health Ministry, the Education Ministry the Jewish Agency, and the JDC all responded to Gabai’s findings with letters denying any intervention in family planning issues among the Ethiopian immigrants.

Read more: http://blogs.forward.com/sisterhood-blog/167445/shocking-decline-in-ethiopian-israeli-birthrate/#ixzz2JHx2Syro

xpost Yeah, but it's usually something the patient asks for, not something offered. Imagine the outrage if a woman went to the doctor in America and he/she just outright offered them a Depo shot. "Hey, while you're here, why don't I give you a birth control injection?" That's not how it works. It's patient driven.

That's what's so weird about this. There are a thousand things covered by universal health care. Were immigrants given CAT scans? Breast cancer exams? Braces? Birth control seems to be far down on the list of things to be offered unsolicited.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7BEYI_4P3E