Israel to World: "Suck It."

It seems pretty obvious that Gamzu issued the letter because there was a claim that it was forced on women, not because he was "admitting" that Israel gave forcible birth control. Obviously if they had instructed Israeli doctors to force (???) the 4-month lasting depo-provera on Ethiopian women for racist reasons that is hideous and gross. I'll wait until a newspaper a little better than the Haaretz breaks the story, though. (Remember when they reported on the front page that England recalled their ambassador last month? Headline quickly changed two days later. They're terrible at breaking news.)

well all they'd have to do is show that they'd been giving Depo-Provera shots to all immigrants no matter of race. But why the fuck would they do that?

"Nobody from inside JDC or the Israeli Ministry of Health, (or anyone else) has ever suggested that we coerce women to use family planning. Women may start, change methods, or stop, at any time. When we offered this as a service, women took advantage of it."

Al-J and Haaretz are pretty much only two media outlets I read re Middle East. Not because I think either are 'fair' towards Israel (neither are) but bc they seem to be the only two actually producing worthwhile first hand journalism.

― Mordy, Tuesday, 27 November 2012

What can I say? They've since started publishing really shitty journalism.

Terrible unsourced stories that don't get covered elsewhere and that they later withdraw. Even this story fails to interview anyone in Israeli government, leads with a headline that isn't backed by the story, etc.

You have to read all journalism critically, but these days Haaretz gets a lot more scrutiny from me than the NYT (or even Al-J non-opinion news).

And I'm sure Israel covers Depo-Provera for all citizens, not just all immigrants, because they have universal healthcare.

Here's some coverage of Gabai's story from when it first broke:
http://blogs.forward.com/sisterhood-blog/167445/shocking-decline-in-ethiopian-israeli-birthrate/

I'm personally skeptical. I don't doubt that some women may have been given it w/out knowing what it was, and wouldn't even be surprised if I found out that individual racist doctors did this, but as a huge conspiracy between independent Jewish refugee groups, immigration groups and the Israeli government? That would be an insane conspiracy for what? A temporary birth-control method?

Alternatively you could explain the population drop by them moving from a third world country with very poor family planning and high poverty to a first world country with universal healthcare. Like the rest of the western world: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/01/world_population_may_actually_start_declining_not_exploding.html

But no, I'm sure that in the midst of the Palestinian demographic boom Israel is definitely conspiring to cut down on the number of African Jews. Man, they're not just Nazis but the worst Nazis ever.

I just can't see any good reason they would be giving this shot to immigrants at all, let alone without consent/informing them what they were taking. Offer it, sure, but make them take it? That makes no sense and is counter-intuitive for a country that invited these thousands of immigrants in the first place, which is why this doesn't quite pass the smell test. But if there's any truth to this that's fucked up.

For the record, Depo itself is pretty harmless (aside from preventing babies, of course). My wife took it for several months, but it promoted unwanted weight gain, iirc.

"no evidence apart from the women's testimonies"

max's scare quotes incredibly otm

35 anonymous testimonials does not a conspiracy make.

I considered that, Mordy - secondhand reporting of anonymous testimony drawn from a very small pool is some dubious methodology - but it's kind of irrelevant, since the Israeli government (Health Ministry Director General Prof. Ron Gamzu) already essentially admitted the practice, however pervasive, by introducing new Depo shot guidelines specifically with regard to Ethiopian immigrants. Still, lots of hedging in the way this is being reported. In the LA Times, for example:

Gal Gabbay, who reported that Jewish Ethiopian women awaiting emigration to Israel in transit camps in Ethiopia were coaxed into the treatment with little medical explanation and led to understand this was a condition for moving to Israel.

Coaxed or forced? Little medical information or none? Led to understand or outright told? Etc. Hopeful there will be a more thorough investigation.

They didn't admit the practice. Gamzu responded to accusations by releasing guidelines that reaffirmed that treatment should not be given if there's a concern that the patient did not consent or did not understand. That does not equal "Israel admits to forcibly giving birth control."

Haaretz published an extract from a letter sent by the Ministry of Health to units administering the drug. Doctors were told “not to renew prescriptions for Depo Provera for women of Ethiopian origin if for any reason there is concern that they might not understand the ramifications of the treatment”.

This does not sound like Israel is admitting any kind of official policy. Haaretz (and the Independent and whoever else is running the story this way) is intentionally writing a dramatic, unsubstantiated lead that is not supported by any of the reporting.

Like Israel ever admits anything, but fair enough,

Lots of circumstantial ugliness here all the same.

Another element in the doubt column: how quickly/conveniently it's begun circulating that Israel somehow practiced sterilization or eugenics, neither of which is accurate. I can see why the country might want to get ahead of this, but clearly they're already lagging on the clearing things up front. What's the story of the doc that sparked all this? Legit filmmaker? Legit broadcaster?

We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding mission appointed by the U.N. Human Rights Council that produced what has come to be known as the Goldstone Report. If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document.

The final report by the U.N. committee of independent experts — chaired by former New York judge Mary McGowan Davis — that followed up on the recommendations of the Goldstone Report has found that “Israel has dedicated significant resources to investigate over 400 allegations of operational misconduct in Gaza” while “the de facto authorities (i.e., Hamas) have not conducted any investigations into the launching of rocket and mortar attacks against Israel.”

Yeah, Israel never investigates its own behavior, or has an independent judicial system, or admits anything. </sarcasm>

She's a journalist who has not uncovered anything new since she made these claims two years ago. This story broke no new information. It's only being picked up by the kind of people who would rather bump the Israel to World: Suck It thread over the rolling middle east thread.

xpost That's a ridiculous thing to cite, Mordy. One, I'm not talking about how forthcoming Israel is compared to Hamas. Two, demonstrating the thoroughness of Israeli investigation by citing an investigation that proved Israeli was thorough is tautological. All countries are loathe to admit error, let alone apologize, for mistakes and vast oversights. It takes decades. But Israel has always seemed more recalcitrant to me than others, whether or not it's for good reason.

My point was that it's a Western country with an independent judiciary and a history of investigating charges made against it.

Unless you believe that Haaretz has sources* that they're not naming, or mentioning, in their article (some kind of deep background that is totally off the page) I don't see how you can give any credibility to the claims of the article. The very headline is contradicted by their reporting. Anyone who could cite the article w/out noting the incredible problems w/ the way it was reported needs to brush up on critical reading imo.

*This is the kind of thing that Haaretz has totally lost credibility on, ime. If the NYT ran a story like this I'd be much more inclined to wonder what kind of sourcing they have on background. Haaretz has a bad reputation for running stories that aren't correctly or properly sourced. This seems to be another example.

It's only being picked up by the kind of people who would rather bump the Israel to World: Suck It thread over the rolling middle east thread.

as opposed to ppl who would like us not to notice that Israel is still telling the world to suck it.

I don't give credibility to the specific article - it's terribly lacking in sources/clarity, which makes its circulation all the more troubling i par for the course when it comes to anything negative about Israel - but I find it telling that the official Israeli response was not simply outright denial but a revision of its birth control application policies. Again, at the very least, I wonder why birth control even came into the immigration picture at all. "Hello, welcome to Israel. Would you like a birth control shot?"

Because family planning is included in universal healthcare?

Israel outright denied this report when it first came out. Look at the links I posted above.

As would be expected, the Health Ministry, the Education Ministry the Jewish Agency, and the JDC all responded to Gabai’s findings with letters denying any intervention in family planning issues among the Ethiopian immigrants.

Read more: http://blogs.forward.com/sisterhood-blog/167445/shocking-decline-in-ethiopian-israeli-birthrate/#ixzz2JHx2Syro

xpost Yeah, but it's usually something the patient asks for, not something offered. Imagine the outrage if a woman went to the doctor in America and he/she just outright offered them a Depo shot. "Hey, while you're here, why don't I give you a birth control injection?" That's not how it works. It's patient driven.

That's what's so weird about this. There are a thousand things covered by universal health care. Were immigrants given CAT scans? Breast cancer exams? Braces? Birth control seems to be far down on the list of things to be offered unsolicited.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7BEYI_4P3E

Israel does push birth control much harder on patients than the US is able to do. I posted this a bit ago:
http://tentofabraham.wordpress.com/2012/12/05/hasidic-jew-heads-up-one-of-the-most-progressive-health-ministries-in-the-world-2-videos/

Video released by the health department:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ItMosO7Bw

Can you imagine that running as a commercial in the United States?

Promoting birth control and safe sex as a national campaign is totally different from volunteering it to immigrants on arrival.

"Welcome to Israel, we are so progressive. Here is your Depo shot and a box of condoms. Would you like some medical marijuana? Shalom!"

Uh yeah. Whatever. Point being, Haaretz has turned into the Israeli version of Fox News, unfortunately. Let me know when a real newspaper covers this. You know, one with fact checkers and sourcing.

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2013/01/28/3117976/israels-health-ministry-orders-halt-to-injectable-contraception-for-ethiopian-women

“At no time did JDC coerce anyone into engaging at family planning at its clinics," a JDC spokesman in New York told JTA in December after the news show aired. "Those options were totally voluntary and offered to women who requested it. They chose the form of contraceptive based on being fully informed of all the options available to them.”

Dr. Rick Hodes, the medical director of JDC's operations in Ethiopia, said injectable contraceptives are the option of choice in Ethiopia.

"We do not inform the Israeli authorities who is on family planning, and I have no idea what happens once they arrive in Israel," Hodes wrote in a letter on the Failed Messiah website that was published Sunday.

"Injectable contraceptives are the most desired throughout the country. They are easy, culturally preferred, and offer the ability to be on birth control without a woman informing her husband, which is an issue here."

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-to-demand-apology-for-anti-semitic-netanyahu-cartoon/

How is this antisemetic

not to thread police but this might be a better place to ask?
Is this anti-semitism?

Not to be all blame-the-victim here, but is it possible some of the Ethiopian women might have initially accepted the offer of a discreet form of birth-control despite knowing their husbands might not approve, then later had second thoughts and confessed, but played up the extent to which they had felt pressured?

lol

"not to be all blame-the-victim but *proceeds to vigorously blame the victim*" is, without sarcasm or judgment, one of my favorite rhetorical devices, partially because it never makes the unpalatable thing you're about to say any more palatable but we all try it anyway

This looks pretty bad. Whether it was an official official policy or a semi-official policy or just some unofficial action by people with power over the matter remains to be seen, but none of those look very good.

Mordy, I don't see how other evidence of Israel generally having a good or progressive health system is relevant. Israel has its fair share of racism and there are definitely individuals in israeli government who I would not put it past to enact something like this, even if it wouldn't be necessarily supported by the majority.

I think I'd prefer to wait for any source or evidence beyond the initial journalist and 35 anonymous interviews.

Like this is being stated in the most inflammatory way, but there is scant evidence and certainly no one has "admitted" to anything like every story has claimed in the headline.

35 anonymous interviews is nothing to sneeze at, and the statistics show that 57 percent of deepo provera prescriptions were for ethiopians when they make up 2% of the population. Don't you at least find that at least eyebrow-raising? Do you think ethiopian women just especially love birth control?

How do you interpret the admission of the health ministry director general that women received the shot "without understanding the consequences" in light of these other facts? Do you think he just means "oops, we didn't do a good job of explaining"?

I think that he was responding to accusations that they did this by reasserting Israeli policy.

Ministry Director-General Roni Gamzu said the decision did not imply he accepted the allegations by the Association of Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI).

I think that anonymous interviews are very hard to interpret. The bits I've read from them are jumbled and confused. Some accuse Israel of misleading them about what the drug was, some accuse Israel of not letting them immigrate without taking the drug, some accuse the refugee agencies in Ethiopia, I haven't seen any actually implicate anyone in the Israeli health administration or in Israel. There is no certainty about when this happened (in Israel? among a particular doctor? among numerous doctors?, who was involved in this decision if it even ever happened, etc. 35 ppl mistakenly taking bc could be attributed entirely to confusion/misrepresenting interviews/language difficulties (not just between doctor-patient but between journalist-subject).

Regarding 57% for Ethiopians:

Rick Hodes, medical director in Ethiopia for the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee, a non-governmental organization that helps to facilitate immigration to Israel, denied the accusation that women are coerced into receiving the injections before leaving for the Jewish state.

"Injectable drugs have always been the most popular form of birth control in Ethiopia, as well as among women in our program," Hodes wrote on Twitter.

Do you believe that the non-governmental organization American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee has been involved in a national conspiracy with the Health Department in Israel to keep Ethiopians from reproducing? Because that seems absolutely insane to me.

Well that due released a vague statement so I guess to assume anything other than what he said is insane