Chicago: Beef, Love and Understanding

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Low expectations, check.

― Jordan, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:30 (seventeen years ago) link

L - Yeah, I agree that there is obvs a greater availability of ingredients (hummus in the superstore, for instance). But for the most part, the people I know who ate bland midwestern food in the 80s are still eating it. I don't know what food-miles kinks are, though.

― La Lechera, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Miles accumulated for kinky food preferences that can be redeemed for more food?

Sign me up!

― La Lechera, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:33 (seventeen years ago) link

food-miles = how far food has to travel to get to your table

― Jordan, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I dunno, Amanda, my parents didn't eat "adult" food in the 80s either, unless you mean the same pretty bland Midwestern stuff!

Yeah, mine still don't, really. Lots of hamburger casserole-y stuff, "goulash" that only resembles goulash because it has a can of beans in it, spaghetti sauce that's more meat than sauce, a delectable/horrifying dish called "Chicken Dorito," etc. etc. My mom at least eats good Tex-Mex food now when she goes out, but by and large, they're both still cooking and eating the same stuff they fed us when we were kids.

― kenan, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh. Ok.

― La Lechera, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:38 (seventeen years ago) link

I think food is getting better. I was reading somewhere (maybe in the 80's food thread?) about how cookbooks used to call for "1 clove of garlic" in a huge pot of spaghetti sauce, as one example of how food these days is more international and more interesting. Even so, my family in MI still is kind of meat and potatoes (boiled together is fine).

I grew up in the Midwest too for the most part, but my 7th Day Adventist upbringing was an odd source of variety in my diet. As a youngster I ate tabouli and baba ganoujhshch at church events because a lot of the people there were vegetarian. But their idea of "Mexican" was "taco salad," which was icebergy, olives, kidney beans, Doritos and FRENCH DRESSING.

― Jesse, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:40 (seventeen years ago) link

So basically that confirms my suspicion that we are talking about our own changing food preferences, not those of the gen-pub. Which means that even though there is hummus in the supermarket, a lot of people keep buying the Shake and Bake.

Maybe people are slowly waking up,but who knows. I am not demographer.

― La Lechera, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Taco salad can die (see also every office party ever).

― Jordan, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:43 (seventeen years ago) link

But if there is hummus (and bulgar wheat, mesulin mix, and various organic stuff) in grocery stores, that means that the demand amongst the general public has increased otherwise you would only find this stuff in the hippy health food stores where the 7DAs shopped. Also, note the degree to which chain restaurants like Applebees and Ruby Tues. have "ethnicized" and "exoticized" (big scare quotes here) their offerings.

― Jesse, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:44 (seventeen years ago) link

This is starting to make me think about the suburban housewifey 7-layer dip I made for the movie the other night. Mmmmmmmmmmmm

― dan m, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:44 (seventeen years ago) link

No one can fade that shit. I barely even had to wash the pan because it was scraped so clean.

― dan m, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Maybe people are slowly waking up,but who knows. I am not demographer.

Nor am I, but there's a big urban/rural divide here, too, right?

― kenan, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Uppity city dwellers would probably like to think so.

― dan m, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link

It's probably not as big as we, the uppity, would imagine -- I'm sure there's a Whole Foods by now in Omaha.

― kenan, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:49 (seventeen years ago) link

heh. Yep.

― kenan, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Nor am I, but there's a big urban/rural divide here, too, right?

Good point. West Branch, MI's grocery stores certainly don't carry hummus. And remember Sarah's story about trying to buy hummus somewhere in rural Virginia? On the other hand, 20 years ago you wouldn't have found hummus in a Jewel in Chicago, would you? And you *can* easily find it in smaller cities like Salisbury, NC these days, so I would stick with "food is getting better/more varied" but add that it's happening regionally, and spreading slowly from city to rural.

― Jesse, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:52 (seventeen years ago) link

When my parents moved to Whitehall from NJ you couldn't get BAGELS within like 100 miles! I grew up on Lender's alone! And it was a long time before more than just the ONE "good" supermarket carried Boursin or Boar's Head deli meats or Bremner Wafres or any Parmesan besides the Kraft kind or any number of things. There is DEFINITELY an increase in availability, because I can remember how excited my mom used to be when she found that stuff in West MI...or would buy it once or twice a year on trips to Chicago or elsewhere.

― Laurel, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:56 (seventeen years ago) link

I do somehow has this fear that eating too much non-native food is terribly bad for you, and my last words will be, "I should have stuck with the goulash!"

― kenan, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:57 (seventeen years ago) link

I agree with you, Jessepants.

I like the name Jessepants.

I keep thinking something horrible might happen any second to my body since I ate SOOOO many cookies (wasn't counting and had multiple kinds), but I feel fine... just kind of heavy.

Hi, Amanda. This too shall pass.

― KitCat, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Omaha has a metro population of like 800,000, not really rural.

You can buy hummus at the neighborhood grocery store in my hometown. You can also buy garam masala, thai chilis, giant bags of basmati rice, juustoa, all kinds of chinese noodles, betel nuts... on and on. It's a function of the place being the only store within walking distance for lots of international graduate students.

― dan m, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:58 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know that I'd describe what I ate as a kid as "bland Midwestern." The food we ate was pretty basic, but it was healthy. Typical meals included fresh pasta salads tossed in olive oil; tacos with seasoned ground beef, refried beans, shredded lettuce, cheese, onions, and diced tomatoes; stir fried pork with broccoli, snap peas, and water chestnuts and served with rice; oven-roasted chicken with baked potato and green beans; homemade pizza with the usual toppings. We never had white bread and kept Kraft singles in the deli tray next to bricks of cheddar. My dad even sometimes got a little adventurous -- he had this Moroccan stew that he used to make when he had co-workers over. The two cookbooks in my parents' kitchen: the original Moosewood and the original Frugal Gourmet.

Based on how the culinary landscape has changed, I have a feeling that if I were growing up right now, my dad would be serving us Indian or Thai food for dinner on occasion. And mostly just because it's so easy now to find curry sauces in the supermarket next to the Kikkoman bottles, both at Jewel and at new stores like Trader Joe's, which my parents shop at all the time now.

― jaymc, Monday, 26 February 2007 21:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Does it strike anyone else as a bit unsettling that you can buy caskets at costco online?
here is the page

― KitCat, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I think my parents subsist on a diet of almost 100% chana masala and variations of thai/chinese stir fries these days. Had a lot of this stuff as a kid, too.

― dan m, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Also: a big class divide. At least back then. Jaymc's parent's went to college; mine did not. Hence hamburger meat with everything. "Healthy" wasn't even a consideration. Only "filling." Pasta salad was only to impress the other moms at the potluck picnic.

― kenan, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Interesting. I know that some people have found it strange that my dad made stir-fries in the 80s. It never seemed that weird to me, because it was a pretty simple and not particularly exotic dish, since Chinese cuisine had been familiar in this country for a while.

― jaymc, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Moosewood recipe apple/cottage cheese stuffed squash = bane of my existance as a ~10 year old.

― dan m, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link

My upbringing was mostly on meat potatoes. It seems like every single Sunday we'd have roast beef, cooked with the vegetables and potatoes. Mom would start it before we left for church. All during the service, I'd dream of roast beef. She did mix it up every once in a while by making Chow Mein, which I thought was meh.

― KitCat, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link

(That was an xpost to Dan.)

― jaymc, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:04 (seventeen years ago) link

TOP TEN COMMERCIAL CASKET MODELS

10. The Dirt-Master
9. Tupper-Tomb
8. Krazy-Kasket from Whammo
7. The Slim Reaper
6. The 19th Hole
5. McCoffin Styrofoam Casket
4. The Comfort-King Velvetliner (endorsed by Paul Anka)
3. Cap'n Crypt
2. The Cardboard Warrior
1. The La-Z-Boy Eterna-Lounger

― kenan, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:04 (seventeen years ago) link

John, that's more or less like my childhood diet, minus the salads in olive oil, and plus a lot of French dressing and casseroles involving cream of whatsit soup. But the point is that "normal" is shifting to include a lot of cuisines that it wouldn't have before! Or they'd have been the Better Homes & Gardens Americanized versions of say, Chinese food (like the one we always called "chicken flied lice" -- I know, so shoot me) and now they are stir fries with ACTUAL Asian vegetables. It just is what it is.

― Laurel, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:05 (seventeen years ago) link

I...don't remember what I ate as a kid. At least when my parents were still living together. I remember some fish, and pancakes on weekends, and pb&j (with wheat bread and nasty organic pb&j) for lunch every day. When I was a latchkey kid I remember lots of frozen pizza, frozen waffles, bagels, and cereal. I had to consciously broaden my tastes as an adult, for real.

― Jordan, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Another thing, is it because I work in restaurants, or are people more comfortable eating food that is not cooked to death? I would have been shocked as a child to see rare steak or raw fish on anyone's plate, but these I am mildly disgusted when people order even their pork med-well or, god forbid, well done.

― Jesse, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Not a lot of vegetables or ethnic-y foods (except for Jewish stuff around the holidays of course).

― Jordan, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Did any of you associate meals with particular days of the week?

Oven-roasted chicken with baked potatoes and green beans was totally a Sunday night dinner, right before 60 Minutes.

Grilled hamburgers and pizza both were on Saturday, and we'd eat them outside on the deck.

Tacos = Monday night, right after coming home from CCD. My brother once called the All Things Considered theme song "taco music" because he associated it with my dad making tacos in the kitchen with the radio on.

― jaymc, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

On probably the first shopping trip I took after getting a "real" job here at UofC (the first time in my working life I'd had pretty much free reign wrt what I could spend on food, no tight student budgets or anything) I got really high and wandered through Cub for like an hour buying all the things I could 1. never afford before and 2. my parents wouldn't let me eat as a kid. Oh, Gushers "fruit snacks", we were made to be together...

― dan m, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

On preview (review) I would have to bet that the rare vs. well-done divide coincides with class as well.

― Jesse, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:08 (seventeen years ago) link

I agree that there is a greater variety of choices now -- but I'm not sure of the numbers of people who give a shit that the variety is there.

Either way, I eat way better than I did in the 80s, when my choices were Arby's, Taco Bell or Pizza Hut on the way to the sitter's.

― La Lechera, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:09 (seventeen years ago) link

My dad used to always make pizza on Friday nights. I didn't even know pizza was deliverable until we moved into town when I was like 7 or 8 years old, and the concept was completely amazing to me.

― dan m, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:09 (seventeen years ago) link

like the one we always called "chicken flied lice" -- I know, so shoot me

My grandma called it that when we took her out to a Chinese restaurant during one of the last conversations I ever remember having with her. (She contracted pancreatic cancer shortly thereafter and died several months later.)

Another thing, is it because I work in restaurants, or are people more comfortable eating food that is not cooked to death?

Haha, my parents had these friends named Mark and Nina -- whose sons played soccer with my brother -- and Nina was like Brazilian or Russian or something, and I remember going over to their house for a dinner party once and they served steak tartare. This was in 1992 or so. (Right, because Mark was wondering why Tonya Harding's first name wasn't pronounced with a long O.)

― jaymc, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:10 (seventeen years ago) link

I have recently developed deep feelings of love for tartartes and carpaccios. Except smoked salmon carpaccio which is too strong.

― Jesse, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Beef, love and undercooking.

― Jesse, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Even though my childhood food was bland it was relatively health-conscious, I think. Memories of melba toast and trips to Brownberry Ovens (breadmakers + health food store) are coming back to me.

I rarely got fast food, so I have fond memories of the occasional McDonald's fish sandwich (I wasn't allowed burgers as a kid, I don't think) or Pizza Hut cheese personal pan pizza (thanks to Book It!!). Pepperoni pizza wz the holy grail, only obtainable at friend's houses or the roller rink.

― Jordan, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:13 (seventeen years ago) link

I like tartares and ceviches and stuff, but I keep thinking of that tapeworm link that was posted a few months ago.

― Jordan, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:14 (seventeen years ago) link

I dunno about the numbers, Amanda, but clearly there's SOME demand which is more than there was 20 years ago! Even if it's just the usual slow aspirational build, where non-Kraft romano cheese gets into one store, and then the other, and then is perceived as normal and people want a nice baked brie to really "class" things up, etc etc. Because stores continue to carry masala spices, hummus, there are bagel shops in lots of towns now (even though they're not all GOOD), there's Droste's cocoa powder at the regular grocery and not only at the specialty import store in Grand Rapids...things like that. I wonder what the tipping point was, if there was one; I should ask my mom about it.

― Laurel, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Now I want raw oysters. My biggest treat when I was a kid was seafood. Especially fresh seafood that we pulled out of the Gulf ourselves. Fried shrimp never fails. Crawfish. Stuff like that. This was all my dad's doing, and my gramma on that side of the family.

― kenan, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:17 (seventeen years ago) link

there are bagel shops in lots of towns now (even though they're not all GOOD)

so sadly true. Even in Chicago. Or LA. Neither of which have any shortage of Jews.

― kenan, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:18 (seventeen years ago) link

thanks to Book It!!

OMG awesome!

Laurel, I went back and reread your original post in which you said that the stuff your family made was homemade and healthy and not necessarily Cheez-Whiz and fluffernutters and Jello molds with maraschino cherries -- and so yeah, we did have similar diets growing up. I guess I'm just averse to calling this "bland, Midwestern" since I think it's a lot better than what a lot of people eat even today and since using "Midwestern" as a derogative kinda bugs me.

― jaymc, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:18 (seventeen years ago) link

I guess ultimately I know you're all right but it makes me feel like a jackass to think that I'm sitting here on the internet making proclamations about how different things are when I was a child at the time and my body was probably made of mac and cheese, tacos and roast beef sandwiches.

― La Lechera, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:19 (seventeen years ago) link

No one can fade that shit. I barely even had to wash the pan because it was scraped so clean.

I'm glad to have done my part in saving you labor. :) I ate the shit out of that.

― kenan, Monday, 26 February 2007 22:25 (seventeen years ago) link

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