Yeah, I think you have to consider relative impact. Sharing that link on ilx was a tiny thing that was done to inform and in turn enable informed discussion. Deciding to show it on the news or whatever is a totally different call.
― dschinghis kraan (NickB), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:02 (eleven years ago) link
At a press conference in Paris, the Prime Minister said Britain has faced terror attacks such as the one in Woolwich before and added: "We will never buckle in the face of it."
this seems such a stupid thing to say - how would "we" "buckle"? we can argue the toss about definitions of terrorism but it's extremely unlikely that there's a coherent cause or set of demands behind a murder like this. promising not to give in to the terrorists is pretty culturally loaded if the potential terrorists are anybody, anywhere.
― the league against cool sports (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:05 (eleven years ago) link
at its least bad, rolling news is harmless, and i don't care about most of the threads. i even participate in some of them. i think this is special because it was so clearly designed to be something that would appeal to worst of rolling news and our desire to be appalled. the combination bothers me: the usual "hey everybody, check out THESE assholes!" style of journalism, whose sole justification is, "well, we've got to talk about something" [*], PLUS the posing for photographs by these particular assholes.
LBI, sorry if you feel like i'm having a go at you in particular. not my intention.
LBI, you put relevance in scare quotes you were the one who first mentioned relevance and has continued to mention it, and i only mentioned it to say "relevant to what?", which i think the fundamental premise the debate rests on.
[*] are you sure? i think the confusion in response to mordy's asking for "takes" is telling.
― caek, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
xp to LBI btw
― caek, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
probably answering my own point in re: Cameron - decrying the EDL for responding to this is missing the point. the EDL exists to respond to this, and presumably the attack was motivated in part by a desire to make EDL types respond to it. a perfect circle of othering in the cause of furthering agendas. really this is win/win except for the poor victim and their loved ones.
― the league against cool sports (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
@Caek, I don't feel you are having a go at me. We good. I do find it difficult to understand why you lashed out at me, questioning my morality, when I simply link to a video that was on topic.
I put "revelance" in scare quotes, because you questioned the revelancy of the link to the vid I posted. As I already expressed, the real relevance remains to be proven and seen. Posting the video does not mean I attribute relevancy to it, but it also isn't a video that is completely useless or without meaning. Seeing that it is the suspect speaking about what he did and why he did it.
"hey everybody, check out THESE assholes!" style of journalism, whose sole justification is, "well, we've got to talk about something"
^^ I wholly agree with this statement. This were a lot of people today. But it was not me.
― Random ASMR Memories (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
you lashed out at me, questioning my morality
wtf?
― caek, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
Seriously dudes, let go.
I have seen a bloke tonight crying because his brother died in Iraq, then arguing about Shariah law leading to 14 murders in the past year in Nottingham, to bombing North Korea. Extremists of all sorts are going to ply this for all the mileage they can get.
― Troughton-masked Replicant (aldo), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
this interview with a woman who talked to the attackers is relevant, interesting:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10074881/Mum-talked-down-Woolwich-terrorists-who-told-her-We-want-to-start-a-war-in-London-tonight.html
― flamenco drop (lex pretend), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:26 (eleven years ago) link
Great, just had to be Nigerian.
― Studied keyboard mash (tsrobodo), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:27 (eleven years ago) link
I disagree, i think, with censorship of the depiction of an act or image just because it might be what the person responsible wanted. Yes, rolling news is often kneejerk after kneejerk but so is rolling anything. Calls for this or that not to be shown very often boils down to the politicisation of an event but just according to other tastes, moralities or agendas.
I obv see a case for not having a dude's head on the 6pm news. Linking footage of the guy responsible on a message board? No problem with that tbh.
― my name is louis and i'm an acoleuthic (darraghmac), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
xps ye were both overly touchy tbh lads stand down
― my name is louis and i'm an acoleuthic (darraghmac), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:30 (eleven years ago) link
darragh otm
― Mordy , Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:31 (eleven years ago) link
eh? touchy? i'm not offended in the slightest. i didn't get the vapours at that link. i haven't questioned anyone's morality (think this might be a language issue to be honest?)
i just said rolling news is literally the worst thing in the world and those responsible for it should be shot into the centre of the sun.
― caek, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:34 (eleven years ago) link
i agree darragh there's no simple answer to "who decides what gets shown" but that means not just blithely accepting the simple answer that news organizations currently give. it's not as simple as censorship either, there's already a line beyond which people won't normally broadcast - incitement to commit hate crimes being part of that line i think
― the league against cool sports (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not inclined to attribute a ton of rationality to the aggressors in a case like this but i think there has to be some difference between "if i do this my action will be broadcast to the world" and "if i do this my message will be broadcast - unmediated - to the world"
― the league against cool sports (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:37 (eleven years ago) link
All wise thoughts tbf, i wasnt setting out a detailed manifesto or anything.
Ok caek yr not touchy. Sheesh.
― my name is louis and i'm an acoleuthic (darraghmac), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:39 (eleven years ago) link
yeah well like a good liberal i don't have any clear answers meself. i'm interested in the numerous ways we might make ourselves complicit in violence.
― the league against cool sports (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
Ya, we dont.
― my name is louis and i'm an acoleuthic (darraghmac), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
i think trying to limit access to video/information because you're afraid of inciting violence / upsetting ppl is a dangerous road to go down
― Mordy , Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
i do know england has more repressive free speech laws than we do in the united states tho, so there's probably a cultural difference here
lol
― caek, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
...
― cozen, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:48 (eleven years ago) link
the NYT refuses to print swear words in direct quotes.
i don't think this is a freedom of speech issue.
― caek, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:51 (eleven years ago) link
"i'm not saying pretend it didn't happen, but when you're doing exactly what terrorists want you to do, you want to be sure it's worth something."
you want to censor information bc it's want the terrorists want, no?
― Mordy , Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
like who gives a shit what they want or don't want. it's newsworthy, it should be available. not saying it should be on network news but it's totally fair game for an ilx thread.
― Mordy , Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
i think you're confusing editorial choices with censorship
― caek, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:55 (eleven years ago) link
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01732/Buy_tomorrow_s_Sun_1732938a.jpg
― am0n, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
whose editorial choice? youtubes?
― Mordy , Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
ITN, BBC, Sky News
― caek, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:57 (eleven years ago) link
lmao The Sun
Srsly mordy tone it down, nobody here is a tube
― my name is louis and i'm an acoleuthic (darraghmac), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 21:58 (eleven years ago) link
it should be available
to be clear, i absolutely agree with this. if you want to watch this then knock yourself out. if you want to discuss it then good luck to you.
― caek, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 22:00 (eleven years ago) link
Insight in terms of trying to place the guys accent
errrr...?
― J'ackHughes (admrl), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 22:19 (eleven years ago) link
looks like i've got a few Facebook peeps to unfriend
― the league against cool sports (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 22:24 (eleven years ago) link
or just, like, go to bed maybe
― the league against cool sports (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 22:26 (eleven years ago) link
Yes, he's a Londoner and English is almost definitely his first language but African 2nd gen immigrants tend to retain elements of their parents accents and being one myself I'm pretty sensitive to the differences in intonation aaaand I'm doing exactly what I said I wouldn't.
― Studied keyboard mash (tsrobodo), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 22:28 (eleven years ago) link
Is The Guardian worse than it used to be?
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/337316839635972096/photo/1
― Ned Trifle X, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 22:29 (eleven years ago) link
Occasionally I make myself stop buying The Guardian, I think that cover is worth of another hiatus.
― ineloquentwow (Craigo Boingo), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:07 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe...
The world is just getting worse
― my name is louis and i'm an acoleuthic (darraghmac), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
Nah, world's always been this way, iirc
― Random ASMR Memories (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:26 (eleven years ago) link
guardia such a rag, they'd say anything to sell or get a few right index fingers moving.
caek otm about rolling news too, it's a form of entertainment.
― ... (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
Local guardia
― my name is louis and i'm an acoleuthic (darraghmac), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:29 (eleven years ago) link
i don't see how this is just vapid entertainment. this was an extremely violent, public political act against a soldier of the uk. how is this not super news-worthy?
― Mordy , Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
otm
― Random ASMR Memories (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:31 (eleven years ago) link
An event being newsworthy does not imply that rolling news coverage of the event is valuable.
― caek, Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:33 (eleven years ago) link
It's as much an inevitability of technology and commercial news structures as it is a worthwhile thing we want/need.
― ... (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:35 (eleven years ago) link
is the entire uk population this incurious or is this just an ilx phenomenon?
― Mordy , Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:35 (eleven years ago) link
It's like, I understand the backlash, the cynicism, for we all know that: 1) yes, the world works this way, that networks and newspapers want to sell, get clicks or rake in theh ads, and 2) "entertainment" will do that nicely.
But I cannot see this as "entertainment", however. I am a disgustingly cynical person, but calling out telly stations for being cynical because they show footage and report on this story, or call out newspapers reporting this, when all they do is portray the shock many people feel at this moment (yes, people are affected by this slaying emotionally), is of an even deeper cynisism.
― Random ASMR Memories (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:35 (eleven years ago) link
xp to Mordy, it must be ilx. Or at least, one would hope...
― Random ASMR Memories (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:36 (eleven years ago) link