Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. -- Marvel meets Joss Whedon meets...TV!

it is funny cuz there have been a lot of actors from cult or whatever shows i watched where i was like i wonder what happened to them and what happened is they got another show that is massively more popular than what i know them from

― balls, Tuesday, November 5, 2013 11:52 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol that's true

i dunno i just guess i find them all very... actors that belong in the supporting ranks in a semi-successful network tv drama, which... they are! and there's nothing wrong with that. but i dont get worked up about them like i do performers on other shows i really like

It's a small-ish ensemble at the moment, though. I'm sure we'll lose and gain some folks soon enough (sure seemed like J. August Richards is meant to get pulled back into the narrative at some point).

The point of which being that "fan favorites" aren't always part of the initial ensemble.

i dunno i just guess i find them all very... actors that belong in the supporting ranks in a semi-successful network tv drama, which... they are!

haha yeah pretty much

i think it would probably be fair to wonder what kinds of roles/characters whedon can write best. some of his best work came from a combination of narrativized character history, and from working mythic/heroic/archetypal modes against jokey everydayness. which is why, say, zoe was a character in his sweet spot even if he didn't write much of a backstory for her in the 1 firefly season + movie, but wash's death in the movie could hit hard (because whedon is good at writing believable dialogue for actors to play characters who have history together). the doctor from firefly, less so, maybe because the zone his character-type came from barely had anything to do with those more heroic attributes that whedon is comfortable writing lines for. kaylee, kind of the opposite thing: mechanic-savant who can come through under pressure, but who generally inhabits the everyday aw shucks mode (which makes her a repeat of willow), so doesn't really present any writing challenges.

the comfort with the heroic aspect lets whedon work well with actors/performances that are maybe kind of meh, like hilo on dollhouse. but when the setup kind of excludes that possibility, or makes it code differently, like on s.h.i.e.l.d., maybe the whedon b-team don't realize that they won't be able to get the same effect. everyone involved right now, except coulson, has to be slotted into 'well-trained paramilitary agent or hanger-on', which means that any moves in the more heroic direction character-wise or line-wise have to be made in a constrained space. like, they can have ming na glower, and punch some people, but whenever she does it there are no notes like 'chosen one' or 'outlaw rebel' or 'reprogrammable sex doll/assassin' to hit in the vicinity, so there's less to compensate for/magnify a modest performance.

on dollhouse whedon's way of handling this, which was more of a problem there because of the storylines and because of dushku and because of the slightly more risky initial premise (more variability built in, a few more balls in the air as far as the elements of sci-fi-paranoia-speculative-alternaworlds go), tended to be to work with the extended series structure and build depth over time to make the more modest bits mean more. i'm kind of thinking that's not to be expected on s.h.i.e.l.d. because it's a big abc production, and because maybe the writers aren't whedon. but it could happen.

i thought kaylee was a pretty terrible character

man I had the biggest crush on Eliza Dushku and then I watched the first episode of Dollhouse ;_;

...and found out she was a memory-wiped, uh, whatever she was in that show??

that show was flat out unwatchable to me

obv it took me 3-4 episodes to realize this

I def went in going "yay, I get to watch Dushku every week ^_^" and came out the other side going "COME BACK JESSICA ALBA, ALL IS FORGIVEN"

i liked the backwaterness to kaylee's character, combined with occasional indignation at being condescended to, but that seemed to usually be a vehicle for the broader class disparities in the firefly world, not often specifically revelatory of her character. xp

eliza dushku found out she was a memory-wiped animal rights activist iirc, who found out about dollhouse-type stuff after trying to break into / maybe blow up a lab? i forget.

dollhouse is better than it seemed the first time around but they were just getting to the point of settling in when they got axed. :/

I thought dollhouse got better as it went and I think I liked it more than firefly.

he always uses these same kind of stock character types though, all of whom are really annoying: the bland corn-fed hunk, the tiny perky girl, the cocky nerd.

The cocky nerd's arc on Dollhouse is pretty good, though.

Look at the size of Adam Baldwin's melon!
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm588429056/nm0000284?ref_=nm_phs_md_4

'we need a shortcut'

<drives through field>

lol

Well, then: http://marvel.com/news/story/21476/disneys_marvel_and_netflix_join_forces_to_develop_historic_four_series_epic_plus_a_mini-series_event

If this succeeds it may render Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. superfluous to their long-term plans.

The Walt Disney Co. (NYSE: DIS) and Netflix Inc. (NASDAQ: NFLX) today announced an unprecedented deal for Marvel TV to bring multiple original series of live-action adventures of four of Marvel's most popular characters exclusively to the world's leading Internet TV Network beginning in 2015. This pioneering agreement calls for Marvel to develop four serialized programs leading to a mini-series programming event.
Led by a series focused on "Daredevil," followed by "Jessica Jones," "Iron Fist" and "Luke Cage," the epic will unfold over multiple years of original programming, taking Netflix members deep into the gritty world of heroes and villains of Hell's Kitchen, New York. Netflix has committed to a minimum of four, thirteen episodes series and a culminating Marvel's "The Defenders" mini-series event that reimagines a dream team of self-sacrificing, heroic characters.
Produced by Marvel Television in association with ABC Television Studios, this groundbreaking deal is Marvel’s most ambitious foray yet into live-action TV storytelling.
"This deal is unparalleled in its scope and size, and reinforces our commitment to deliver Marvel's brand, content and characters across all platforms of storytelling. Netflix offers an incredible platform for the kind of rich storytelling that is Marvel’s specialty," said Alan Fine, President of Marvel Entertainment. "This serialized epic expands the narrative possibilities of on-demand television and gives fans the flexibility to immerse themselves how and when they want in what's sure to be a thrilling and engaging adventure."

More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/news/story/21476/disneys_marvel_and_netflix_join_forces_to_develop_historic_four_series_epic_plus_a_mini-series_event#ixzz2jyGINQcy

Prob what Vin Diesel was talking to Disney about (I think it was Vin?) a few months ago

Too bad Terry Crews is already on a show because he is basically Luke Cage come to life

is hells kitchen still gritty

it got pretty bad when Daredevil built that giant castle thing and staffed it with undead ninjas

oh wait you mean irl

No, Luke Cage is gonna fight Gordon Ramsey.

gonna be a lot of interracial romance thought pieces about the jessica jones/luke cage dynamic and 85% of them will discuss scandal

has anyone EVER gotten daredevil right outside of the comic? the character seems impossible to pull off.

http://media.screened.com/uploads/0/587/237041-smithdd.jpg

xposting See, that's what they should have done all along. I know money is money, but if there's anything the zeitgeist-capturing cable dramas have shown, it's that people seem to appreciate a series that only run 10 or 13 episodes or whatever if it's really well done. Only in the US do we have these exhausting 30 ep runs or whatever it is. Make a handful of must-see episodes in a miniseries linked to a blockbuster series of movies and you've got yourself an event, one that also conveniently mirrors the crossover event model of comic books.

i would go with brubaker world for this whole thing

marvel must be so pissed that sony has so many of their most recognizable characters.. dgaf about iron fist.

Matt Fraction wrote a series of recent Iron Fist stories that are supposed to be amazing (haven't read them yet, they're on the list)

They're good Dan. Not as good as the Brubaker Daredevils but good; Fraction cowrites many of them with Brubaker. They're more heavily into lore and the idea of iron fists past and present and extradimensional. then they mix that in, unfortunately, with batman style "hey i've got a lotta money and not-for-profits" bullshit. i imagine they'll work off that storyline?

after Hawkeye and FF I'm basically a Fraction fanboy so I'll be getting to them

they're great, daredevil is boring

If (as appears to be the case) they're using the Bendis DD/Alias as the inspiration for this move, it stands the chance of being pretty damn awesome.

i'm fine with anything bendis-based really

Fraction/Brubaker Iron Fist is great - if you like Hawkguy it'll definitely appeal.

If (as appears to be the case) they're using the Bendis DD/Alias as the inspiration for this move, it stands the chance of being pretty damn awesome.

― Blood Ass IV: Blood Fling (Old Lunch), Thursday, November 7, 2013 1:48 PM

Cosigning this. I like the general tone that Bendis, Brubaker and Fraction have brought to spandex foolishness over the last 10 years, and the fact that DD/JJ/IF/Cage are going to be the protagonists of these is really exciting. My problem with the SHIELD series is that the tone feels off. The actors are playing is straight, but the writers are really mugging for the cameras too much.

I don't think Skye is playing it particularly straight

but aside from that I see your point

i've gone from impatiently waiting for comic book movies to fall out of fashion for good to pretty much completely supporting the marvel cinematic empire/being disappointed the SHIELD sucks

i'm not sure why

Bolt the door, Varg is loose! And he has access to Asgardian weaponry!

This week's episode was fun. Still not even close to being essential viewing, but it's getting fractionally better with each episode. Getting somewhat worried that the ''dark secret' quotient is rising every time we learn something new about a character's background, though. Does everyone on the team reallyneed to be tormented by their past?

head desking about this "did I fall asleep" reference to Dollhouse

When Coulson said that, my wife and I replied "For a little while" in perfect synchronization.

Does everyone on the team reallyneed to be tormented by their past?

You have seen Joss Whedon shows before?

With a few exceptions, nearly every Marvel hero is tormented by their past. That's kind of their thing.

trying to think of one who isn't... Kitty Pride? Wasp? a couple of the Young Avengers maybe?

Colossus. Banshee.
I guess cap lost bucky.

Banshee's wife died and he had a daughter he never knew about!

Captain America was frozen in ice for decades, it's one of his defining characteristics!

Didn't Colossus have a dead brother who turned out to be alive and evil?

yep, also his sister was kidnapped by demons and raised to be a queen in Hell

Cecilia Reyes wasn't tormented by her past; she was tormented by her present

I don't think Synch was tormented by his past...

Yeah, clearly it's a Marvel thing - it's just so obvious that every week they set aside 90 seconds to inelegantly seed another clue to some as-yet-unrevealed trauma. It's straight-up Claremont, I suppose.

All of the current marquee Avengers have angst-ridden pasts except mmmmmmaybe Thor and arguably Hulk (who IIRC didn't get angsty until he became the Hulk)? I don't know the extent of his Marvel backstory beyond his rivalry with Loki) Admittedly Cap's is "I'm a man out of time"-derived as opposed to being an enemy agent (Black Widow), a criminal (Hawkeye) or a self-serving alcoholic (Iron Man).

Yeah, Hulk itself has no demons - it is the demon. Thor, not very haunted. Fantastic Four, are they haunted by demons?