10 Steps To Fascism

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GM - Tits Ooi

― Dr Pow, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:59 (seventeen years ago) link

"Appeal to a frustrated middle class"

Cultivate a resentful majority

― Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Crrxn: Wiki article that ~~StanD~~ StanM referenced upstream

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:05 (seventeen years ago) link

"Cultivate a resentful majority"

Right. I actually don't think Bush's administration has done a very good job on this one. There seemed to be a pretty strong current of anti-immigrationism going on there for a bit (see Minutemen et al), but not anything new (Prop 187--California uber alles), and Bush hasn't really managed to focus middle class resentment on a particularly useful target--I mean, the affirmative action backlash is pretty pathetic from a fascist point of view. If only he could convince us that the jihadists are after not our LIVES but our JOBS.

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:11 (seventeen years ago) link

I would also recommend Chris Hedges' series of columns talking about how this shit happens w.r.t. the dominionist/christian reconstructionist part, with stuff like fundie leaders advocating this fucked up mixed of the worst aspects of american corporatism, nationalism, all soaked thru with violence. Stuff like Blackwater now functioning as a praetorian guard, these guys saying how you don't need health insurance if you're right with God, etc.

― kingfish, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, frankly, I think America's hyper-capitalism ultimately works against any movement towards a specifically fascist form of authoritarian gov't. THE MARKET IS OUR GOD, the gov't exists only to serve it. (Not that it can't employ a few tasty tidbits from the fascist bento box in achieving that aim.)

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Or does capitalism exist to serve the interests of an elitist leadership? Now I'm confused...

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link

There seemed to be a pretty strong current of anti-immigrationism going on there for a bit

More bark than bite. Solid majorities across the US are in favor of a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants.

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Or does capitalism exist to serve the interests of an elitist leadership? Now I'm confused...

bit of a distinction to be made that a lot of what goes on in America can more correctly termed corporatism, which _definitely_ serves and controls the authorities

― kingfish, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:36 (seventeen years ago) link

A problem for our authoritarian leaders: How can we mobilize the resentment of the middle class, and still encourage their complacent consumerism? The Cold War was excellent in this respect--how lovely when our enemies are also the enemies of capitalism. Our new "enemies of freedom" lack the appealing specificity of the old "enemies of our system of commerce." An American-way-of-life rhetoric can be brought to bear either way, but I think our middle class might be a little confused at this point about what, exactly, we're supposed to feel threatened by. Thus is our paranoia pervasive, but diffuse.

Luckily, the North Koreans are still communists!

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:37 (seventeen years ago) link

how lovely when our enemies are also the enemies of capitalism

Islamic fundamentalists are enemies of capitalism - it's their only redeeming feature!

― Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:39 (seventeen years ago) link

"Also, frankly, I think America's hyper-capitalism ultimately works against any movement towards a specifically fascist form of authoritarian gov't. THE MARKET IS OUR GOD, the gov't exists only to serve it. (Not that it can't employ a few tasty tidbits from the fascist bento box in achieving that aim.)

-- crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:14 PM (23 minutes ago)
Or does capitalism exist to serve the interests of an elitist leadership? Now I'm confused...

-- crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:15 PM (22 minutes ago)"

as she says, rightly, fascism was a corporatist/capitalist response to communism. she goes wrong in suggesting communism was kind of trumped up by hitler to scare the voters. the business leaders who funded him felt it was a very real threat. in practice the US doesn't live up to free-market ideology.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:41 (seventeen years ago) link

"bit of a distinction to be made that a lot of what goes on in America can more correctly termed corporatism, which _definitely_ serves and controls the authorities"

Right, this is a good example of a specific way capitalism can be used to promote the interests of a specific elite (and how clever of the authorities to align themselves with that elite); but I think "capitalism" promotes "elitism" in a more general way--even when corporations aren't the elite.

I'm still interested in how capitalism aligns with fascism, though. In a broad sense, capitalism feeds off (at least the illusion of) individualism, whereas fascism encourages explicit conformity to a unified ideal. This seems like a contradiction. One exception that springs immediately to mind is Japan, which is as rabidly consumerist as America, but not at all caught up in American myths of individualism. (Not suggesting that Japan is a fascist nation...but it makes all the sense in the world that they got in bed with the Germans and Italians in 1940.)

Maybe I'm confusing "individualism" with "individuality."

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:50 (seventeen years ago) link

"in practice the US doesn't live up to free-market ideology"

Capitalism is a moral system/symbol with great power over the American psyche--it doesn't necessarily accurately describe how our markets work.

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:53 (seventeen years ago) link

haha, you haven't been around much, have you? Try to talk to Manalashi a.k.a. Roger Adultery on one of these threads.

― kingfish, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:55 (seventeen years ago) link

"Islamic fundamentalists are enemies of capitalism - it's their only redeeming feature!"

True. But I don't think the Bush administration has done a good job of getting this across to the middle class masses. They hate freedom! Bush would do better to remind us that when he says, "freedom," he means "freedom to pursue our constant consumer cravings." Instead, I think people have a general idea that they hate us because our women wear short skirts. And because we seem to like the Jews. (Sort of.)

Tangent: When did we start saying "the Bush administration?" Did we really say "the Clinton administration" when Clinton was in office, or did that happen after the power exchange (heh heh)? Didn't we used to have presidents, not "administrations?" (I really can't remember.)

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 16:00 (seventeen years ago) link

"haha, you haven't been around much, have you? Try to talk to Manalashi a.k.a. Roger Adultery on one of these threads."

I resent this. I've been around plenty.

Oh, you mean around on ILX? Well, no.

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 16:02 (seventeen years ago) link

But why do you ask? Have I wandered into laissez-faire lion's den or something? Are people going to start quoting Ayn Rand at me?

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 16:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Hahaha, not so much "people" as like "one or two guys and maybe some random asshole troll googler".

Let's just say that there are bigger supporters of rapacious laissez-faire capitalism out there than this board. Take a look around at some of the other threads to get an idea of where we are.

― kingfish, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 16:36 (seventeen years ago) link

also something to track, and more and more people are doing this, the dominionist types trying to take over the U.S. military, and what happens when you get the army filled with rightwing authoritarian followers, and of their belief of the righteousness of their violence:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c219/talk2action/warrior.gif

― kingfish, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 17:24 (seventeen years ago) link

don't forget these guys:

http://www.regent.edu/general/about_us/home.cfm

― King Kitty, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 21:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Bottom-line: not all bad political situations fit neatly into the rubric of prior bad political situations

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 21:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Except that all of this has happened before. All of this will happen again.

Like with Cylons.

― kingfish, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 22:02 (seventeen years ago) link

lolz @ Britishers (yet again)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

which thread was it where some Brit was asking about why the Constitution can't just be rewritten/disobeyed?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 22:07 (seventeen years ago) link

I never ever ever stop finding it funny when people misspell Fascism as Facism.

― The Real Dirty Vicar, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 22:09 (seventeen years ago) link

fecism

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 22:10 (seventeen years ago) link

"lolz @ Britishers (yet again)

-- Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, April 25, 2007 1:07 AM (23 minutes ago)
which thread was it where some Brit was asking about why the Constitution can't just be rewritten/disobeyed?

-- Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, April 25, 2007 1:07 AM (22 minutes ago)"

hmm, dunno, but naomi wolf is american.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 22:31 (seventeen years ago) link

we have our share of idiots, yes

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 22:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Facism is the new racism.

[i]"Do Pretty People Earn More?"[i] (CNN)

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 22:53 (seventeen years ago) link

1. Cut a hole in a box.

― Spencer Chow, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 22:54 (seventeen years ago) link

I know who Naomi Wolf is. I am aso cognizant of what country the Guardian is published in, and the nationality of various posters on this thread.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 23:08 (seventeen years ago) link

(anyway vahid OTM as usual)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 23:08 (seventeen years ago) link

it's kind of an undirected 'lolz @ britishes' then since the britishes were not alll of one voice. most were, however, critical of the american writer wolf, so i'm still not seeing your point.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 23:12 (seventeen years ago) link

okay then lolz @ British publishers of this article, lolz @ British readers who find it somehow illuminating or engaging, and lolz @ Carsmile Steve for general misconception about US political history

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 23:15 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know, none of that seems very funny

― admrl, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 23:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Eh, she's got some points but there are all kind of stretches and false parallels made in her arguments. Guantanamo and the secret prisons are really bad but they're not exactly on the scale of gulags in terms of numbers of prisons. Private security contractors are really scary in their own way but I don't see the analogy to brownshirts one bit.

-- Hurting 2, Tuesday, 24 April 2007

The point of the article was to suggest that the U.S. is taking steps toward fascism, not that we're already there. I can't see the use of secret prisons declining anytime soon, and since the Guantanamo scandal didn't result in enough public outrage, they know they can pretty much get away with it now.

I agree, the private security contractor/thug caste connection was a stretch. I can, however, see the local-level police being turned into a mindless government enforcement branch. Lots of them already are.

― Z S, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 00:13 (seventeen years ago) link

wait this is 2007 not 2003 -- way to go

― JW, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 00:23 (seventeen years ago) link

9. Dissent equals treason

Cast dissent as "treason" and criticism as "espionage'. Every closing society does this, just as it elaborates laws that increasingly criminalise certain kinds of speech and expand the definition of "spy" and "traitor".

Democratic leaders are acting like traitors by opposing the Iraq war, and President Bush must answer with a toughened stance, former U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay said Monday.

U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "are getting very, very close to treason," DeLay said in a meeting with the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

― M.V., Wednesday, 25 April 2007 00:24 (seventeen years ago) link

haha quoting a wingnut former politco with nothing left to loose

― JW, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 00:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I think most people with any sense throughout the political spectrum know that Tom DeLay is a fucking lying shitbag.

― the table is the table, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 00:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, not to get into this, but the US definitely loves the Jews and the state of Israel. Our support of Israel is still one of the biggest sticking points for the Arab world. Not a maybe, in other words.

― the table is the table, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 00:40 (seventeen years ago) link

(When I say 'not getting into it,' i meant, 'let's not talk about the validity of Israel.')

― the table is the table, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 00:42 (seventeen years ago) link

wait this is 2007 not 2003 -- way to go

huh

― Z S, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 00:43 (seventeen years ago) link

"Also, not to get into this, but the US definitely loves the Jews and the state of Israel. Our support of Israel is still one of the biggest sticking points for the Arab world. Not a maybe, in other words."

My "sort of" was only meant to acknowledge the existence of anti-Semitism in the U.S., despite our political support for Israel. (And I agree plz definitely no "Israel: Classic or Dud")

― crazymonkeyfromjapan, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 04:45 (seventeen years ago) link

"Also, not to get into this, but the US definitely loves the Jews and the state of Israel. Our support of Israel is still one of the biggest sticking points for the Arab world. Not a maybe, in other words.

-- the table is the table, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 00:40 (7 hours ago)"

muslims are the new jews y/n

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 08:07 (seventeen years ago) link

the bush administration is pretty bad but ppl who write articles like this seem to have a pretty hazy grasp of american history. it's been WAY worse than it is now. at least we're not sending movie directors to prison for making movies that make our allies look bad.

a better sign of growing fascist tendencies than anything in that list is that no one makes movies or tv shows making fun of the military anymore.

― J.D., Wednesday, 25 April 2007 08:54 (seventeen years ago) link

fascism will not be vanquished until the 'hot shots' franchise returns to our screens.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 08:58 (seventeen years ago) link

which thread was it where some Brit was asking about why the Constitution can't just be rewritten

I think it was on one of the gun control/Virginia shooting threads where people were discussing the 2nd Amendment.

― onimo, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 10:02 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1557850/20070423/sum_41.jhtml

"That line is a metaphor for how Bush is so ineffectual and incompetent as a president," Whibley wrote, in reference to the song's opening line. "It's the worst way I could think of to describe how bad he is as a leader."

Cue right-wing outrage. And, rather surprisingly, a fair amount of message-board outrage as well. When a link to Sum's MySpace page appeared on the punk news site AbsolutePunk.net, reaction was varied — although more members than you might think took the band to task for the lyrics, which some saw as irresponsible, and others saw as the work of a group of outsiders (Sum are, of course, Canadian) who don't have the right to criticize Bush.

"Am I the only one who thinks that talking about killing a president is going too far?" one post read. "I am so sick of the hyperbole in politics. Does he honestly want to kill the president? It's just taking it too far, in my opinion."

"Does he really say 'the president of the United States of America is dead' at the beginning, and then later say something like 'I know the president's dead, 'cos I shot off his head?' " another read. "Isn't that illegal?"

"When I heard they were going back to the sound of the first couple CDs, I was psyched," a third wrote. "But after hearing that first line, f--- that. They shouldn't have the right to talk about our president if they aren't from the States."

― and what, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 14:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Skipping 65 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Oh, buddy. Ooooof.

― This is Dance Anthems, have some respect (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 24 May 2024 20:06 (one week ago) link

never forget

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3GORdkXEAskO9P.jpg

― katy perry (prison service) (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 24 May 2024 20:55 (one week ago) link

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