thread for contemplating the serious issues raised by the Men's Rights movement

tbf frats smell bad

my tiny liberal arts college didnt allow frats at all and guess what

almost as bad as a rotten...................................................................................................................................................................... red herring xp

same here, JJJ. no frats allowed. but what i found out about campus rape blew my mind.

in fact with a little googling, it appears that my former institution had the highest number of sex offenses reported in the state based on the most recent Clery Act statistics available with 3.41 reports per 1000 students. for comparison the U of MN had .25 per 1000, and has a ton of frats.

man i want an emoji for "nodding my head emphatically in a 'right on DJP' kind of way" because dude has been on point forever in threads like these

before people go all in with the "well maybe that institution encourages reporting more than others" sure fine, but considering this whole discussion got spawned by statistics based on self-identification of sexual assualt we're pretty deep in the woods here already fact-wise

this was good:
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/02/the-dark-power-of-fraternities/357580/

Sorry to belabor this point, but the statistics are NOT based on "self-identification of sexual assault" -- they're based on the descriptions of certain behavior by guys who mostly do NOT see what they do as sexual assault. Besides that, I really don't think frats are the point either, so we have no argument about that. The problem is, however, a "culture" that seems to especially thrive in groups.

so you think it's likely that there are more people dumb enough to not recognize what sexual assualt is than there are people smart enough to conceal their own misconduct? i dont buy it for a second

which makes the biggest issue wrt this article the very legit potential that the 6% it arrives at is woefully flawed and way under the real number

Sorry to belabor this point, but the statistics are NOT based on "self-identification of sexual assault" -- they're based on the descriptions of certain behavior by guys who mostly do NOT see what they do as sexual assault. Besides that, I really don't think frats are the point either, so we have no argument about that. The problem is, however, a "culture" that seems to especially thrive in groups.

ban groups

i was gonna say

like, if the general takeaway from the article is "wow that number is lower than expected and really focused on a very specific kind of perpetrator" that is more damage than good to society as a whole, and campus safety in general

No, I think the takeaway is "this is a common scenario and set of attitudes that often leads to rapes, so educate men about that scenario and those attitudes before they fall into them"

the other takeaway is that there's a common set of attitudes and a scenario that these people do not feel to be sexual assault

That wasn't really in response to jjj's point, but to an extent, yes -- this people are too dumb to know what they're doing is sexual assault, and they are associated with social frameworks that are sophisticated at sweeping such things under the rug, making them think it's ok.

so, little of column A, a lot of column B

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/09/false_rape_accusations_why_must_be_pretend_they_never_happen.html

wake me in 400 posts' time

lock thread

ftr way more real rapes end in acquittal than false charges make trial. both are terrible but come the fuck on

Add one to the creepy ex-Soviet libertarian list.

In the headline it claims that "they are real and they are a real problem". In the sub-head it admits "they are rare". So, I guess the bold position taken here is that false rape accusations are a real rare problem.

why must be pretend they never happen

The quantum physics of men's rights

What is the point of that article even

Brb writing a super amazing article going to call it "sometimes people accused of crimes are not actually guilty of the crimes they are accused of but you know, not super often" it's going to be a real potboiler.

it's actually a very good article. it's a sensitive topic, but it's hard to argue against making the issue more evidence-based. assuming she's a reputable academic who's done an actual literature review, at the very least it's good to be familiar with the data

She's actually a researcher for the nutso Cato Institute and contributing editor for the even more nutso far-right libertarian Reason magazine who has spent years taking isolated cases of unproven or false allegations and spinning them into a war-on-men narrative so take the statistics with bucketloads of salt.

Hang on, don't you think we should give this anti-feminist concern troll a fair hearing

no
but maybe idk we might not laud feminist trolls quite so militantly the whole time n'est pas

oh yeah man all the militant lauding, that's got to stop

agreed

^ straw mens rights activist

http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341

that is wonderful

<3 a vagrant

she is wonderful

More than a quarter-century ago, feminist legal theorist Catharine MacKinnon wrote that “feminism is built on believing women’s accounts of sexual use and abuse by men”; today, Jessica Valenti urges us to “believe victims en masse,” because only then will we recognize the true prevalence of sexual assault. But a de facto presumption of guilt in alleged sexual offenses is as dangerous as a presumption of guilt in any crime, and for the same reasons: It upends the foundations on which our system of justice rests and creates a risk of ruining innocent lives.

So (your, my, police officers') taking women's accounts of rape seriously and finding them worth investigating and prosecuting the accused = presumption of guilt.

Taking accusations seriously undermines the foundations of the justice system.

The panel where one is on the ceiling and the other is slithering under the bed is almost unbearably good.

Avatar
StarDustTyping • 8 hours ago

Since they decided to be sexist over their magazine selection, not one of my mates shops there. I'm guessing we aren't alone. Plus all the females they sacrificed us for left tesco for aldi and lidle.
Tesco could have filled their shelves with football, gaming and car mags but they just chose to boot out male mags and by extension males.
They are getting what they deserve.

XD

idk shd we even give easy targets the time of day tho

the hard targets are so difficult to find though

that was from the comments below a telegraph piece on the tesco collapse btw

Tbf that's as good an example of the serious issues raised by the men's rights movement as most of what's been posted itt

ftr way more real rapes end in acquittal than false charges make trial.

― imago, Friday, 19 September 2014 18:10 (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

How do they count such things? Specifically the former?

I mean you can make a purely mathematical argument for that. There must be at least an order of magnitude (probably more than one, but the argument works with one) more true rape accusations than false or fabricated ones. Even if 100% of rape accusations went to trial (they don't), 100% of false rape accusations ended in acquittal for the suspect, and just 10% of rapists were acquitted (it's more than that), you'd have as many freed rapists as falsely accused ones.

what does imago's point mean for the blackstone ratio?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/23/showbiz/celebrity-news-gossip/emma-watson-speech-nude-photos-threat/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

wrong thread i think