I think they're Christians too. I'm not one to judge.
However, I completely see where the other side is coming from. I mean, you can't tack on your own books to the Bible. (Right, Jews?)
http://i.imgur.com/xsLfe4q.jpg
But in the end, it's like arguing whether or not "Trapper John MD" is part of "M*A*S*H" canon or not.
― pplains, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 18:23 (nine years ago) link
I consider Mormons, Catholics, etc. to be Christians. Raised protestant, in a swings-both-ways Methodist and Presbyterian congregation (I know, I know. How could you reconcile the differences?) that itself was housed in a larger interfaith center. So I was completely baffled the first time I heard someone ask "are you Catholic or are you Christian?" I wish I had paid more attention to whoever asked that. Seems like something you'd want to keep tabs on somebody about.
― how's life, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 18:25 (nine years ago) link
xp thought we had an arnold friberg thread that maybe anthony started, can't find it
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 18:27 (nine years ago) link
The whole "Are Catholics Christian?" sub-question baffles me a little bit. There was a time when ALL so-called Christians were Catholic. You'll even catch some older Jewish folk refer to all followers of Christ as "Catholic".
I mean, the Catholic Church was founded by AN APOSTLE. Protestants came about because someone was into making his own flyers.
― pplains, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 18:28 (nine years ago) link
My friend's coworker is a sikh who moved to the US from Tanzania (with his family having moved there from India) around the time he turned 20 and occasionally he'll voice some odd assumption or observation he picked up from popular culture that isn't quite right. It took a lot of explanation to convince him that no, the mainstream Mormon church has not endorsed polygamy and has in fact condemned it since before 1900.
― mh, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 18:38 (nine years ago) link
this kind of question exists strictly to cast out heretics and since I don't care about internecine squabbles of gentiles yes from my outsider POV anybody who believes any nonsense about Jesus/the New Testament is a Christian.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 18:42 (nine years ago) link
iirc pplains, Catholicism got corrupted somewhere between becoming the official religion of the Romans in 380 or so and the common era
something regarding the Borgias, maybe, hard to say
― mh, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 18:44 (nine years ago) link
My POV (raised Protestant)is if you've got baptisms, communions, and New Testaments, then you're in the club!
― Liquid Plejades, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 18:49 (nine years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, September 2, 2014 12:42 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lol how benevolent of you.
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 18:54 (nine years ago) link
i was trying to think of a jewish analog to this kind of boundary-making identification but afaict jewish ethnic divisions are much older much more about family groups than ideological posturing. is there a modern equivalent in jewish culture i wonder.
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 18:57 (nine years ago) link
idk do Xtians care if Orthodox Jews consider converted Reform Jews actual Jews? (they do not btw)
lol xp
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 18:58 (nine years ago) link
I really can't conceive of a rationale for saying an individual who professes to be a Christian is somehow wrong or mistaken about that. Contrariwise, while I profess to be a Jew and was raised Jewish, some Orthodox Jews wouldn't consider me Jewish based on the rules of matrilineal descent (my mom isn't Jewish), and we're all familiar with the phenomenon of people who profess not to be Jewish being told that they are by various authorities (including Jewish ones).
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 19:02 (nine years ago) link
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, September 2, 2014 11:57 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It's the "did you know [X famous person] is Jewish?" game.
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 19:04 (nine years ago) link
my take is that if you're not of a religion, and someone says "I'm a <X>" then whatever, they can be whatever they say they are
if you're part of <X> then in some small way, everyone is doing <X> wrong and you can make whatever metrics you need to decide if they're actually <X>
― mh, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 19:10 (nine years ago) link
Can I be a buddhist that eats brisket? That would be awesome!
― Liquid Plejades, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 19:14 (nine years ago) link
I really can't conceive of a rationale for saying an individual who professes to be a Christian is somehow wrong or mistaken about that.
the rationale is that they're weird sicko heretics. duh
― example (crüt), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 19:15 (nine years ago) link
Up the heretics imo
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 19:15 (nine years ago) link
here tics
*vapes*
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 19:17 (nine years ago) link
this clip explains rationale p well imo:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBKIyCbppfs
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 19:18 (nine years ago) link
i think this is chassidim v. misnagdim probably tho very few jews would say that the other isn't actually jewish.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 19:29 (nine years ago) link
and of course this is at play in conversions today - orthodox doesn't accept conservative conversations, conservative doesn't accept reform, reform probably accepts any conversion
― Mordy, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 19:30 (nine years ago) link
When I was a fundamentalist, our youth group leader showed us Anti-Mormon propaganda and essentially told us to be 'closed-minded' to this un-Christian form of thinking. It wasn't until later that I learned 20% of the propaganda video was 20-30 years out of date. Not to say that the Mormon religion view on Blacks wasn't completely o_O anyway but there's a lot of that anti-Mormon sentiment still circulating more traditional forms of Christianity
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 19:34 (nine years ago) link
if yr Christian upbringing was only 20 yrs out of date with crucial info you got off lightly son
― nakh is the wintour of our diss content (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:34 (nine years ago) link
lol
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:38 (nine years ago) link
tbf religion in america remakes itself at like 100x the speed of the rest of the world
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:39 (nine years ago) link
I don't remember seeing any anti-unitarian propaganda when I was a kid/christian. How did they get off so easy?
― Liquid Plejades, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:40 (nine years ago) link
do you think of steve jobsians as christians? why yes i do, i am open-minded that way
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:41 (nine years ago) link
there's a lot of that anti-Mormon sentiment still circulating more traditional forms of Christianity
if you're a non-Mormon Christian it seems to me like you should at least firmly believe that Mormons are going to Hell, but my ideas of Christianity come from Baptists + evangelicals + King James onlies, not huggy liberal all-inclusive new agey types
― example (crüt), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:42 (nine years ago) link
i went to a mainline methodist church as a kid, they mostly seemed to believe in agape. and youth groups.
― j., Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:43 (nine years ago) link
yeah, i kind of self-raised myself Methodist and we seemed to be pretty chill and not much hell stuff in there
― Daphnis Celesta, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:45 (nine years ago) link
i found a thread for unitarian jokes on the simpsons, and they found over the expanse of the series, there were four.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:45 (nine years ago) link
I never even heard of Unitarians until I was an adult in NYC! My impression is that they're a Northeast thing?
lol my mother was raised Methodist and then decided it was too much about doing good in the world and not enough about one's personal relationship with Jesus Christ, ever-present in your heart. Sealed my fate right there.
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:46 (nine years ago) link
iirc aside from their internal problems with splitters and all-includers and gradual disappearance due to indefinite vagueness, unitarians had a hard time weathering the periodic religious revivals over the 19th/20th c and u.s. expansion
― j., Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:47 (nine years ago) link
i told my grandfather he was going to hell when i was like 5. grandmama was delighted.
― example (crüt), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:49 (nine years ago) link
i went to a unitarian congregation in slc once, i was very put off by the western white liberal subaru w obama sticker congregation and sermon, made me think of crazy grandpas with "get US out of the United Nations!" bumper stickers with fondness
― mattresslessness, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:54 (nine years ago) link
lol otm
― example (crüt), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:56 (nine years ago) link
i sometimes think about going to a Unitarian meeting, they seem like people i'd vibe with, but i don't really want to tourist other people's faith so i dunno
― Daphnis Celesta, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 20:57 (nine years ago) link
My impression is that they're a Northeast thing?
My impression is that they're "always within a mile of a college campus" thing.
― Everyone's a closet ned. (Johnny Fever), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 21:08 (nine years ago) link
I can immediately think of where the Unitarian congregations meet in both my hometown and college town, and that's definitely true for the latter but not for the former. Definitely near a historically edgier neighborhood, though.
Both in the midwest, naturally
― mh, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 21:13 (nine years ago) link
Oh god no they'd fucking love it, seriously.
― carl agatha, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 22:50 (nine years ago) link
Talked about this elsewhere but I went to a Unitarian church here in Chicago for a little while. They were so earnest and sincere. It was really sweet, actually.
Then they had this dramatic internal rebellion against the minister because she talked about God and Jesus too much (lolllll Unitarians) and it got weird plus I stopped wanting to get up so early so I quit going.
― carl agatha, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 22:53 (nine years ago) link
"I'm here to talk to you....about God."'AGAIN?'"And our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."'Can't we explore some of the ancillary characters for once?'
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 23:03 (nine years ago) link
"Listen lady, stick to 'Spirit of Life' and we'll all get along just fine."
― carl agatha, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 23:06 (nine years ago) link
I tried attending a Unitarian church once a while back during a period when I was really lonely and looking for some community in my life. First sunday went okay. Second sunday the sermon was about tithing. Third sunday it was themed around the football and I just peaced.
― how's life, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 23:30 (nine years ago) link
i only went to church when there was free food eventually
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 23:32 (nine years ago) link
and even then Swayzed out when the youth group leader began insisting a fucking baked potato was a *meal*
I mean, a baked potato will fill you up pretty good.
― how's life, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 23:39 (nine years ago) link
in my house they were sides. I mean I won't shit on a baked potato or nothin cos I fuckin love em but they're an "and" for me
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 23:42 (nine years ago) link
Neither here nor there, but I was talking to someone recently who spent her freshman year of college at a midwestern liberal arts school that has some reformed church linkage (and iirc, a link to an ilxor) and she told me that her roommates sat her down and tried an intervention because her family was Catholic and they thought she was going to hell.
― mh, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 23:43 (nine years ago) link
once she was at liberal arts school her card was well marked anyways I'd say
― nakh is the wintour of our diss content (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 23:45 (nine years ago) link