There's a FB campaign to defriend him - a link going around that tells you which friends like him and you're supposed to ask them to defriend!
MF's actual moment in the sun, when they got lots of plays on Much Music etc was 1992-93. All the famous songs mentioned here (King of Spain, Green Eggs, Drinking Song, the one about Authors, Gulf War) were all on their 1992 demo cassette, when that was a thing in Canada- the Barenaked Ladies did an indie cassette that went gold. Their debut album which came out more than a year later had re-recordings and everyone was tired of them by then (plus the other, worse material of course). Why am I telling you this fact? To establish that you would have to be at least sentient by 1992 to have experienced their heyday.
― everything, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:06 (nine years ago) link
Meantime Amanda Palmer has gone "Uh I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO." Kinda.
https://www.facebook.com/amandapalmer/posts/10152576179293375
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:10 (nine years ago) link
Man, I know appearances are deceiving etc. but it's still tough to square this whole story with the guy who sang "My Baby Loves a Bunch of Authors".
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:11 (nine years ago) link
xxpost -- Yeah I first heard of them thanks to the said tape in, I think, early 1993; a friend of mine down here had it and was all geeked out over it (in more than one way).
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:11 (nine years ago) link
Annnd his (I gather) longtime PR firm has dropped him
https://twitter.com/rockitpromo/status/527926831572602880?lang=en
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:15 (nine years ago) link
The point is that the person who is subordinate holds the real power.
But isn't there an inherent contradiction here? That what the person dominating gets out of it is thinking they have the real power? At least, I can see what you're saying applying to, say, a professional, like a pro dominatrix, where it is clearly a fantasy arrangement. But in the context of real world relationships, I just don't see how this can work without someone getting hurt, literally or figuratively. You need someone really hitting, or hurting, or whatever, to whatever degree, for there to be a sub under the illusion they have the "real" power. The sub can (or should) be able to stop things before things go too far, but the job of the dom is ... to push things too far, for real. Someone can say stop, but someone still has to hit or hurt first. It seems an untenable imbalance.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:16 (nine years ago) link
Plus another public statement:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/reva-seth/reva-seth-jian-ghomeshi_b_6077296.html
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:21 (nine years ago) link
Would not be surprised if there are plenty more ahead.
Re: Amanda Palmer remaining neutral on this - even if that's her attitude, does she REALLY think Ghomeshi is going to walk out on a stage in Toronto next week? Fucking hell. They'd need the police there.
― everything, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:28 (nine years ago) link
Maybe he can do penance as a living statue.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:30 (nine years ago) link
you could poll which line from that palmer post is the most tone-deaf
if you've been following the news, he's become a lightning rod in the past couple days.
i see all your thoughts and it is my personal style to never shut down a conversation or run away from the fire: a philosophy that often (as you've seen before) lands me in hot water.
sorry for the mixed fire/water metaphor....haven't had my coffee yet.
ironically (poetically?) enough, i am spending my days, as we speak, at bard college making a musical with a bunch of students that deals directly with the painful aftershocks of sexual abuse, rape culture and lack of communication. and i'm about to publish a book about how communication and openness trumps anger, hate and fear. these things can't be coincidental.
― da croupier, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:33 (nine years ago) link
so to sum-up, she's awesome, she's not sure what ghomeshi is other than talked about but be nice she hasn't had her coffee and isn't it amazing how the stars have aligned
― da croupier, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:35 (nine years ago) link
and please buy my book, available for preorder on amazon
― LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:37 (nine years ago) link
completely empty bunch of words she's put together. anti-meaning, even.
― caucasity and the sundance kid (goole), Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:37 (nine years ago) link
And one of her other guests is Bob Lefsetz...
― everything, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:37 (nine years ago) link
Yup.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:40 (nine years ago) link
also she's offered two responses in the comments. to someone suggesting his presence would be disturbing and an insult to his victims, she responded "i hear you." to someone who told her to take a nap and stay hydrated, she responded "will do. i'm actually about to take the day off with my husband. for his birthday. wish me many cuddles."
so fans of hers disturbed by the allegations get nothing more than "i see you have typed words" while she asks for a hate-free zone and cuddle wishes.
― da croupier, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:43 (nine years ago) link
i realize "amanda palmer is a narcissist, film at eleven" is old hat but I'm still amazed she can keep up the shtick in the face of ANYTHING
― da croupier, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:45 (nine years ago) link
I believe that Amanda Palmer's relationship with her fans is extremely dysfunctional. I'm not being rhetorical or joking on any level. I think it is a serious co-dependent/narcissist relationship that does no-one any good.
― everything, Thursday, 30 October 2014 22:17 (nine years ago) link
she says "I hadn't been raped" but I'd disagree with that assessment based on what she described happened.
― akm, Thursday, 30 October 2014 22:23 (nine years ago) link
(that was w/r/t the Reva Seth article)
It's understandable that AP would have a hard time with speaking truth-to-power, given her own history
― fgti, Thursday, 30 October 2014 22:25 (nine years ago) link
Whatever it's called, she paints a clear picture of why someone would rather just say "bad date, move on" than turn it into a criminal charge, and how ordinary a thing that is in our world.
― the man with the black wigs (Eazy), Thursday, 30 October 2014 22:36 (nine years ago) link
Josh, I think wiser people than myself can answer your questions, there. Like an entire community with a rich history that probably exists, should you choose to read about it instead of conjecturing.
― ⌘-B (mh), Thursday, 30 October 2014 22:48 (nine years ago) link
Google pretends it is a submissive, getting off on people telling it what to do, but we know who has the real power.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 30 October 2014 22:59 (nine years ago) link
Navigator has dropped him now: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/30/jian-ghomeshi-navigator-pr_n_6078334.html
― doug watson, Thursday, 30 October 2014 23:37 (nine years ago) link
Talk about a sign he is TOTALLY radioactive. Even if their hands were forced.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 30 October 2014 23:55 (nine years ago) link
I am so glad! That of all the interesting debates this situation could have stimulated (the use and abuse of power by well-connected media men; the ways in which female communities protect and fail to protect women from predators; the lines between BDSM and abuse, and the known and oft-identified how creepy-doms often use 'BDSM' as an excuse to cover abuse) ILX has now chosen to dwell on and discuss the single most salient and interesting and important aspect of this whole mess!
Indulging its collective grudge-crush on Amanda Palmer!
I am so relieved that we have identified the ~real~ menace here.
― Jacques Lacan let me rock u; let me rock u, Jacques Lacan (Branwell with an N), Friday, 31 October 2014 11:38 (nine years ago) link
^Activist Zero for the next backlash
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Friday, 31 October 2014 11:43 (nine years ago) link
sucks that you have Eazy akm mh Josh in Chicago doug watson and Ned Reggett killfiled
― keep the meat alive: pampas grass (wins), Friday, 31 October 2014 11:43 (nine years ago) link
wait who is Ned Reggett
― keep the meat alive: pampas grass (wins), Friday, 31 October 2014 11:44 (nine years ago) link
I don't have any of those people killfiled. But I don't think it's a stretch to say that actually, ILX's relationship with 'Amanda Palmer' is 'deeply dysfunctional'.
― Jacques Lacan let me rock u; let me rock u, Jacques Lacan (Branwell with an N), Friday, 31 October 2014 11:47 (nine years ago) link
xp
Maybe I've forgotten the name and the addressOf everyone I've ever knownIt's nothing I Reggett
― Barry Gordy (Neil S), Friday, 31 October 2014 11:48 (nine years ago) link
I have no interest in her but idk she's an asshole who says dumb shit to the internet in order to get precisely this kind of response, I'm not surprised ilx has a thread to point and laugh (like that lefsetz guy). A few posts itt noting that a famous person with lots of loyal fans just publically defended a rapist doesn't seem that off too me
― keep the meat alive: pampas grass (wins), Friday, 31 October 2014 11:52 (nine years ago) link
*to
There is no violent, abusive action of a man so horrible, so repugnant, that the good people of ILX cannot find a way into deflecting onto criticism of a woman. (Any woman will do, but ILX is particularly obsessed with AP.) If a male celebrity has done a violet, repulsive, horrible thing, cherchez la femme! This is the true, appropriate target for your criticism, rather than male violence itself.
― Jacques Lacan let me rock u; let me rock u, Jacques Lacan (Branwell with an N), Friday, 31 October 2014 12:00 (nine years ago) link
Reggetts, I've had a few
― ⌘-B (mh), Friday, 31 October 2014 12:28 (nine years ago) link
Nearly all of this discussion here has been revulsion at Ghomeshi, and I don't think anyone would have bothered with Amanda Palmer at all if she hadn't previously booked him for an appearance in Canada next week. When this came up on Sunday, she gave an initial statement saying the appearance was still on; now that more people have come forward, and given that this would have been Ghomeshi's only scheduled public appearance at all in the near future, it's not surprising that there's been a further statement from her. That the statement seems to be a bit of flailing on her part is kinda her burden to bear; the vast majority of commenters ON the Facebook post have been urging her to drop him from the appearance.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 October 2014 12:57 (nine years ago) link
Meantime, more background info:
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/behind-the-cbcs-decision-to-fire-ghomeshi/article21396998/?service=mobile&click=sf_globefb
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 October 2014 13:25 (nine years ago) link
And more about the PR decisions:
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/gta/2014/10/30/jian_ghomeshi_dumped_by_pr_firm_over_lies_sources_say.html
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 October 2014 13:33 (nine years ago) link
It's a little interesting/surprising to compare the discussion here and on my FB feed, where most people have accepted that he is guilty by now, with the comments section on even a recent CBC story on this issue: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/jian-ghomeshi-allegedly-choked-beat-n-b-woman-with-belt-1.2818879
Plenty of commenters still regard this as a vengeful smear campaign by the CBC to get back at a former employee who is suing them and are question the credibility of the women who are making these allegations. I'm usually hesitant to assume someone's guilt in these sorts of situations but, at this point, when eight different women have come forth with similar allegations, and two have put their names to it, I find it pretty hard to not believe them.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 31 October 2014 13:41 (nine years ago) link
Is it possible that AP has kept him on the 'show' 1) because he has some explaining to do and 2) if she sacked him off, she'd still have to pay him?
(bear in mind I know not what the 'show' is)
― Mark G, Friday, 31 October 2014 13:42 (nine years ago) link
"... are questioning the credibility ..."
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 31 October 2014 13:45 (nine years ago) link
jeet heer thinks about the "political economy" of JG
https://storify.com/JeetHeer1/the-political-economy-of-jian-ghomeshi
― caucasity and the sundance kid (goole), Friday, 31 October 2014 13:50 (nine years ago) link
has she made up her mind to keep him on the show?
― akm, Friday, 31 October 2014 14:24 (nine years ago) link
Someone was giving Queen Latifah shit for dropping Bill Cosby as a guest just as/because of renewed rape talk making the rounds, saying she should have kept him on to call him on his shit. But had she kept him on, she still would have gotten shit. At this point I sort of want AP to keep this asshat on whatever her show/panel thing is she's doing, just to see what happens, how it further reflects on him and her. Given the response in the post comments and given his day by day increased notoriety, I can't imagine he can stand on a stage without someone at the least shouting him down, at the most throwing something at his head. And I'm curious how she carries herself, too. Obviously Amanda Palmer thrives on self-righteous defense, but clearly that isn't working in this case (again, judging by fan responses to her comments). Or maybe nothing will happen. Or maybe he will drop out.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 31 October 2014 14:28 (nine years ago) link
I think AP should drop out, and Jian and Bob Lefsetz should take turns interviewing each other until everyone leaves and/or one of them drops dead. Maybe they can get Gene Simmons in the mix, too.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 31 October 2014 14:29 (nine years ago) link
Ghomeshi being dropped by his crisis management firm makes me wonder whether firms like that have anything equivalent to attorney-client privilege. Are clients protected if they disclose lots of illegal activities? It seems like there might me a strong incentive against disclosing more to the firm than you have to, or more than what's already in the media.
― jmm, Friday, 31 October 2014 14:33 (nine years ago) link
there's undoubtedly non-disclosure agreements but i can't imagine publicist-client privilege has the same legal standing as attorney-client
― da croupier, Friday, 31 October 2014 14:35 (nine years ago) link
in this case there'd be no point to putting his publicists on the stand anyway. a lot of what they could say would be hearsay, and it's unlikely ghomeshi is confessing to the victim's accounts as someone else comes up with the defense he posts on facebook. those rationalizations are clearly his own.
― da croupier, Friday, 31 October 2014 14:44 (nine years ago) link
If a male celebrity has done a violet, repulsive, horrible thing, cherchez la femme!
If it had been Mark Kozelek wandering into the situation even tangentially, the reaction would have been identical.
― Simon H., Friday, 31 October 2014 15:03 (nine years ago) link