(xps)The anti-communism/anti-civil-rights linkage is pretty straightforward though?? Like, we have plenty of documentation of southern whites who could *only* conceive of demonstrations as "communist agitation", because their worldview left no room for an independent/grassroots Black political movement.
― Heroic melancholy continues to have a forceful grip on (bernard snowy), Wednesday, 24 June 2015 13:31 (eight years ago) link
xp ^lol, exactly
― drash, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 13:32 (eight years ago) link
bernard, true; but you've spelled out the linkage in a concrete, specific, localized sense (i.e. unpacked the shorthand)
it may be 'straightforward' but it's qualified
― drash, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 13:43 (eight years ago) link
Don't make things more complex than they are, just to make them more complex. If a connection is true, shorthand is obviously acceptable. Learn why the connection is true, don't take everything for granted, but you don't need to spell every little thing out, that just makes the discussion that much slower. And when we're talking race, where black people are killed due to racism pretty often, the discussion should not be slowed down for no reason at all.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 13:57 (eight years ago) link
Fundamentally, racism isn't a question of logic. It's a question of power.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 13:58 (eight years ago) link
That Chronicle author has, ah, some hangups: Raymond Carver, trained by writers steeped in anti-Communist formulations, probably didn’t realize that his short stories were doing ideological combat with a dead Soviet dictator.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, June 24, 2015 8:29 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
guys this is a wry joke at Engle's expense
― goole, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 14:45 (eight years ago) link
"hangups" lol is this the 70s or something
you're right – let's have a rap session about it
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 24 June 2015 14:47 (eight years ago) link
http://blog.teeter-inversion.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Roger_50-Thumbs-Up.jpg
― how's life, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 14:51 (eight years ago) link
groovy
goole it’s wry, but author does mean to draw straight line from cia funding to carver’s style
frederik, wasn’t thinking of ilx so much as political argumentation in general. & imo sometimes slowing down & seeing things as more complex isn’t just matter of logic, but pragmatic politics (to have effect on minds & policies & relations of power). but i take your point
― drash, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 15:11 (eight years ago) link
And I take your point too. It's def about pragmatism for me as well. And learning the historical connections behind the shorthands is always important, and telling them if people ask (though I guess every everyone who debates racism or anti-semitism or feminism knows the deal with correcting the same historical misconception for the 1000th time, and being ignored).
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 17:03 (eight years ago) link
Fundamentally, racism isn't a question of logic. It's a question of power.― Frederik B, Wednesday, June 24, 2015 8:58 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Frederik B, Wednesday, June 24, 2015 8:58 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
word porn
― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 24 June 2015 18:31 (eight years ago) link
sry i meant why do i hate that artist thing that people keep posting on my facebook so much? why am i such a jerk?
― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 24 June 2015 18:32 (eight years ago) link
missed the thread till now and posted this elsewhere:
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/06/misty-copeland-athlete/397364/i would welcome some thoughts on if this is trolling, poor consideration or a reasonable point― like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, July 1, 2015 3:07 PMnot sure. is the point of the article that her career breakthrough goes hand in hand with her total commercialization?― Nhex, Wednesday, July 1, 2015 3:41 PMjust that the first black prima ballerina at ABT is presented as an "athlete" not an artist; seems like charged language― like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, July 1, 2015 4:14 PM
i would welcome some thoughts on if this is trolling, poor consideration or a reasonable point― like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, July 1, 2015 3:07 PM
not sure. is the point of the article that her career breakthrough goes hand in hand with her total commercialization?― Nhex, Wednesday, July 1, 2015 3:41 PM
just that the first black prima ballerina at ABT is presented as an "athlete" not an artist; seems like charged language― like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, July 1, 2015 4:14 PM
― like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 1 July 2015 16:41 (eight years ago) link
Clickhole totally nailed it with this one. oh wait...
http://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000003773643/a-conversation-with-white-people-on-race.html?action=click>ype=vhs&version=vhs-heading&module=vhs®ion=title-area
― scott seward, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 19:47 (eight years ago) link
i don't see how ballet can be considered a "sport" even if it involves something we might consider "athleticism"
― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 1 July 2015 20:29 (eight years ago) link
There's no was a competitive element to it, but what if there was?
― holger sharkey (Tom D.), Wednesday, 1 July 2015 20:41 (eight years ago) link
LOL, again:
There's no competitive element to it, but what if there was?
― holger sharkey (Tom D.), Wednesday, 1 July 2015 20:42 (eight years ago) link
Bobby Jindal releasing a t-shirt to troll Hari Kondabolu wrt Twitter allegations of being a race traitor probably deserves a mention in this thread:
http://i.imgur.com/FjBLVKN.jpg?1
http://mic.com/articles/121382/bobby-jindal-hari-kondabolu-twitter-so-white
― who epitomises beta better than (ShariVari), Wednesday, 1 July 2015 20:44 (eight years ago) link
that J logo looks weird. like a hook or something. some sort of wall fastener...
― scott seward, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 20:49 (eight years ago) link
looks like a water slide
― wizzz! (amateurist), Wednesday, 1 July 2015 20:49 (eight years ago) link
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31wGVaDMC%2BL.jpg
― drash, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 21:55 (eight years ago) link
haven’t followed or looked into jindal thing (beyond passing online refs), so hesitate to comment
but, of all things to criticize (or mock) jindal for…
dunno, generally speaking, more often than not, find political criticism based on ‘race traitor’ or ‘whitewashing’ theme… nagl
of course, conservative politician is likely to have certain views on certain issues related to race—insofar as those views are objectionable, criticize those views; but race-betrayal, race-denial angle seems like form of 'racial-identity policing' which bothers me
related trope bothers me in other areas than politics, cf criticism of mindy kaling’s show (which i haven’t seen) bc, apparently, it didn't thematize her race sufficiently
so maybe some counter-trolling is justified…? maybe i’m wrong
― drash, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 21:58 (eight years ago) link
Jindal's official governor's portrait looks like it was literally whitewashed tho
http://images.dailykos.com/images/127268/large/jindalportrait.jpg?1423001935
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 22:00 (eight years ago) link
xp, Yes, i think it's pretty unhelpful. Jindal is clearly a piece of work but there's plenty of room to call him out on his politics (including his political statements on race) without going down that road. For a start, positioning social conservatism and crass racial politics as "white" ignores how common those things are within sections of the Indian-American (and wider NRI) community.
The weird portrait's apparently not the official one.
― who epitomises beta better than (ShariVari), Wednesday, 1 July 2015 22:09 (eight years ago) link
xp ^def true, and works as jokebut extending that into serious criticism?ah but then none of this is v serious, it's twittertown
― drash, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 22:12 (eight years ago) link
agree, sharivari
― drash, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 22:13 (eight years ago) link
― who epitomises beta better than (ShariVari), Wednesday, July 1, 2015 6:09 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark
yeah i feel like calling them 'white' and excluding them from the community masks the fact that those sentiments areprevalent in the community - i think it's better to try and wrestle and unearth them within the community rather than to just sweep it under the rug. same goes for conservative east asian americans imo
― 龜, Wednesday, 1 July 2015 22:28 (eight years ago) link
you think that Jindal portrait's bad, you should see the one they've got in the capitol of Huey Long.
http://i.imgur.com/kkyVPEu.jpg
― pplains, Thursday, 2 July 2015 00:49 (eight years ago) link
what's happening to skinny elvis over there?
― wizzz! (amateurist), Thursday, 2 July 2015 01:30 (eight years ago) link
Not really a portrait, obv.
But it depicts Long's assassination. The other unfortunate fella is Carl Weiss, the assassin, getting mowed down by Long's bodyguards.
That illustration hangs in the capitol hallway where it all happened. You can even stick your finger into one of the bulletholes.
― pplains, Thursday, 2 July 2015 01:45 (eight years ago) link
did they assassinate him with a poison that made his hand swell up and cause an aneurysm
― j., Thursday, 2 July 2015 02:04 (eight years ago) link
wow what a weird paintingweiss as sorta hipster saint sebastianand (uncropped below) scary eye-bulging statue looking on
http://hdtd.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/30/huey1_2.jpg
― drash, Thursday, 2 July 2015 03:25 (eight years ago) link
long doesn't seem in such bad shape there (aside from hand swelling), for a guy who's about to be dead.
― wizzz! (amateurist), Thursday, 2 July 2015 05:23 (eight years ago) link
Long's bodyguards returned fire, hitting Weiss 62 times
holy fuck
― wizzz! (amateurist), Thursday, 2 July 2015 05:24 (eight years ago) link
pplains, isn't one of the bullets still in the wall? could have sworn someone said that. the animatronic huey long at the desk that will perform speeches is still the best theme attraction in a government building I've seen.
― Upright Mammal (mh), Thursday, 2 July 2015 13:38 (eight years ago) link
looks like the famous painting of the zoot suit riots:
http://www.kcet.org/socal/departures/columns/assets_c/2014/02/ZootSuitRiots-thumb-630x414-69618.jpg
― goole, Thursday, 2 July 2015 16:48 (eight years ago) link
wau @ Long portrait, that's incredible
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 2 July 2015 16:50 (eight years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOHaJizzjdghttp://everysinglewordspoken.tumblr.com/
― like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Friday, 3 July 2015 21:35 (eight years ago) link
that movie focuses on like 3 people
― supreme problematics (D-40), Saturday, 4 July 2015 20:00 (eight years ago) link
https://medium.com/@johnmetta/i-racist-538512462265
― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Thursday, 9 July 2015 21:58 (eight years ago) link
great read
― 龜, Thursday, 9 July 2015 22:09 (eight years ago) link
i w/o thinking really referred to myself as a racist in conversation w/another white person and it really derailed the conversation in an unpleasant way
― affluent white (Lamp), Friday, 10 July 2015 00:23 (eight years ago) link
thanks for the link, DJP -- amazing piece.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 10 July 2015 01:06 (eight years ago) link
i dont agree with the entirety of this but this part shows, i think, how pervasively this framework infests everything:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/02/looking-white-in-the-face/
Postmodern theory tries to interrupt that expression at every stop, to put every word in scare quotes, to put our own presuppositions into question, to make us worry about the murderousness of “we,” and so to get in the habit of asking, “we, who?” I think that what modern philosophers call “pure” reason — the Cartesian ego cogito and Kant’s transcendental consciousness — is a white male Euro-Christian construction.
White is not “neutral.” “Pure” reason is lily white, as if white is not a color or is closest to the purity of the sun, and everything else is “colored.” Purification is a name for terror and deportation, and “white” is a thick, dense, potent cultural signifier that is closely linked to rationalism and colonialism. What is not white is not rational. So white is philosophically relevant and needs to be philosophically critiqued — it affects what we mean by “reason” — and “we” white philosophers cannot ignore it.
― supreme problematics (D-40), Saturday, 11 July 2015 10:36 (eight years ago) link
"Historically, there is no quotidian without the enslaved, chained or dead black body to gaze upon" - claudia explains it all
― supreme problematics (D-40), Saturday, 11 July 2015 23:18 (eight years ago) link
Article upthread talks about how white people don't think about where they *choose* to live as a part of their racial privilege. Something that causes a lot if unspoken tension on Facebook, Twitter and other online social groups is the difference between people from overwhelmingly white towns and those with a more diverse population. I came from an integrating suburb, I am grateful that my parents didn't want their children to grow up in a segregated environment. They wouldn't associate with people who would abandon diverse areas, let alone people who would actively oppose integration. Those people have some serious thinking to do about how segregation has benefited them, spend less time schmoozing and promoting themselves and be more circumspect in their online behavior. The actions of those pro-segregation people were very hurtful to the rest of us and it's not my job to educate or entertain people who come from those backgrounds. I don't socialize with such people in my offline life, why would I do that online?
― Fake Sam's Club Membership (I M Losted), Sunday, 12 July 2015 18:52 (eight years ago) link
Rachel Dolezal's new line is "I wouldn’t say I’m African-American, but I would say I’m black"
ok
― Οὖτις, Monday, 20 July 2015 19:48 (eight years ago) link
Oh, I figured she'd wised up and was trying to lay low until people forgot about her. Huh.
― Something Called Fudge (Old Lunch), Monday, 20 July 2015 20:16 (eight years ago) link
nope she's in Vanity Fair
― Οὖτις, Monday, 20 July 2015 20:21 (eight years ago) link