your routine at the gym

It sounds like you are actually seeing some pretty good results for the time you are putting in. I've always heard you really need to work out at least three times a week to see a difference; can you bump up your workouts to 3-4 times a week? Also, are you focusing on compound exercises that hit a lot of muscles, and feeling it? You might not be pushing yourself quite enough.

But I relate. I've been working out hard and faithfully for three years, and I'm impressed with how I've stuck to it. Some days I'm really satisfied with the returns, and other days I can't believe this is all I have to show for all that effort and commitment.

if you want to lose weight you really just have to cut calories esp if you're older and/or have been overweight for some time

what are compound workouts?

Somebody else can explain this much better than me, but compound exercises are the big ones that hit a whole lot of muscle groups at once, and tend to be more taxing and effective than the isolation exercises we were just talking up about thread:

http://www.primalpal.net/paleo-recipe-blog/46/The-15-Best-Compound-Exercises-for-Super-Efficient-Workouts

thanks!

i've started trying to get into squats and trx stuff since reading these threads. squats are really hard. i'm not a very flexible person it seems.

Can't find it right now but there was an NYT article about the trend toward "functional fitness" stuff like kettlebells, cable machines, ropes, trx etc. and away from those "isolation" machines. Which all actually seems to make perfect sense, except it makes me wonder how everyone decided that isolation machines were a good idea in the first place. Granted I guess they teach you form and help prevent injury if you're a total beginner.

― five six and (man alive), Thursday, August 13, 2015 9:45 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

p sure rippetoe addresses this specifically in 'starting strength' --- machines are attractive to health clubs because they don't require instruction, and you don't have to worry about injury (not from poor form, per se, but from like dropping a barbell). also, they require minimal staffing and you can use space more efficiently than you can with squat racks. gyms that just have machines and treadmills cater to people who have passing dalliances with fitness: get a gym membership, show up a few times, aimlessly try out machines, stop going but keep paying until you realize that you're getting dinged $XXX/mo

free weights require instruction, which doesn't come cheaply for either the gym or the consumer. moreover, once you've received that instruction, you can make good progress on your own --- coaching would obviously help with form and programming, but it isn't strictly necessary. qualified instructors are more expensive than gym monitors, and tough to rationalize if people stop using them after a few sessions.

which i suppose is where cross-fit comes in: ppl pay for the instructors' certifications, and for spot-checking of form and other inputs (eg yelling), so you get the volume of machine-based gyms and the upcharge of personal training. and the best part is that since there is no progression to cross-fit, no trajectory, no end-point, people just keep paying

It's also kind of a relic of postwar/space race 'technology will save us all' ideology - that's when you start seeing the original Nautilus research and that kind of stuff. It wasn't necessarily an appeal to average gym owners as the workouts were kind of insanely tough.

Machines get a bad rap, IMO - just as you can get super fit with a couple of KBs, you can get fit with the machine course at your local Y if you add reps and/or weight, just like you do with freeweights. The reversion to 'if you're not barbell squatting you're wasting time' is just another ideology shift.

real talk

... the trend toward "functional fitness" stuff like kettlebells, cable machines, ropes, trx etc. and away from those "isolation" machines ... seems to make perfect sense, except it makes me wonder how everyone decided that isolation machines were a good idea in the first place. Granted I guess they teach you form and help prevent injury if you're a total beginner.

xposts -- good comments above, I'll just post what I already wrote:

I think the simple version is that organized fitness activities prior to World War 2 mostly emphasized the kinds of exercises now trendy as functional. Then researchers doing kinesiology experiments discovered that certain kinds of free-weight training got measurably better results for muscle hypertrophy (measures of the growth of a muscle are convenient as quantitative data). As weight training became more widespread and more research-driven, popular fitness literature and programs started emphasizing isolation exercises, mainly because body builders were using some of those methods to get crazily big and ripped. Photography, film, and TV changed the popular image of fitness to something closer to the body-building ideal. With more people coming into gyms in the 70s and 80s, machines like the Nautilus got popular as ways to use gym space more efficiently and provide safer routines for less experienced lifters. What today's fitness people argue is that isolation exercises, seated exercises, exercises with limited range of movement, etc., aren't the most efficient ways to develop the kinds of fitness that support functional performance. So everything old is new again: kettlebells, Indian clubs, bodyweight exercises, climbing, etc.

v good explanation, thx

also milo and gbx. Good posts all around. Part of why I still come to ILX -- highly historically literate and well-reasoned posts on weightlifting.

Somebody else can explain this much better than me, but compound exercises are the big ones that hit a whole lot of muscle groups at once, and tend to be more taxing and effective than the isolation exercises we were just talking up about thread:

http://www.primalpal.net/paleo-recipe-blog/46/The-15-Best-Compound-Exercises-for-Super-Efficient-Workouts

― Evan R, Thursday, August 13, 2015 11:04 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thanks!

i've started trying to get into squats and trx stuff since reading these threads. squats are really hard. i'm not a very flexible person it seems.

― 9 days from now a.k.a next weekend. (dog latin), Thursday, August 13, 2015 11:10 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I never squat with weight, but I only just recently learned that my squat form was bad because I was getting up off my heels. I have short calf muscles, so this is not an easy thing for me to avoid, but I was told to really focus on pressing down through my heels, and it helps a lot.

lol @ white middle class fitness culture: new balance's slogan is "always in beta"

http://www.newbalance.com/always-in-beta/

xp yeah I've always had trouble touching my toes because the pain in the back of my calves/knees feels unnaturally excruciating if I even do it for more than 2 seconds. it's too tempting to roll forward or back on your feet.

i'm weighing up the pros and cons of joining the gym again when i move house vs investing in a kettle bell, gym mat, core ball, possibly a TRX system if there's space and a few other bits and bobs and just working out at home.
i'm not terribly interested in getting sw0le per se, just keeping healthy and lean. it could save time and money in the long run, but not sure if i'd realistically have the will power to do regular home workouts, or if i'd get the holistic benefits of the entire gym gamut. the advantage of a gym membership is it forces you to get out the house and work out somewhere away from distractions and just get into the space of 'this is what i'm going to do now for 75 minutes'.

Yeah I can't even force myself to do a few push-ups at home. Go for the gym membership and use the extra space at home for something fun like a library or home theater or something

I think the gym is a much better idea. Home workouts only work well for people who are already well into the habit/addiction of working out. There's something about having a separate time/place to do it that makes a huge difference.

I also highly recommend setting a (very light) workout schedule for yourself, like put it on your calendar, Wednesday at noon, Sunday at 2, whatever, and just going at your scheduled times. This has made a huge difference for me in making sure I get into the gym regularly.

Also helps a lot to have a gym bag packed and ready to go in advance. Really anything you can do to make that final moment of getting out the door to the gym less of a decision and more of a response.

"healthy and lean" is so amorphous an idea--i think you gotta have swoleness or some other benchmark in mind or else working out just feels like punching a clock. imo!

I used to sort of fear weights/bulking up/building too much muscle mass, but at some point I realized that you have to lift pretty heavy to really bulk up, especially if you're naturally thin-framed (which I'm not fwiw). My 40-50 lb per arm dumbbell presses are not going to turn me into some kind of hulking meathead who can't clap his hands over his head.

And yeah, if you DON'T do that stuff, you don't see as much visible progress. Seeing some definition in your chest/arms after a month or two of working out is a more concrete reward than just feeling vaguely healthier.

i work out at home and it's perfect because i can do whatever i want without the discomfort of people looking at me. i'm pretty independently motivated, so that's not a problem. i do calisthenic routine, yoga, dancing, weights 3x a week and i don't think i'm swole but my upper body strength is vastly improved. i can feel it. not sure i can see it, but i don't really want to.

Yeah I guess this is one of those things that you have to figure out for yourself -- I can see why some people prefer home workouts and get more exercise that way.

BTW usually when I make progress in my workouts I can feel it in my drumming -- do you find that to be true?

if i study a song while exercising, for sure! physically, idk? i've gotten fast enough that drumming doesn't really require that much strength, more agility.

I find improved muscle strength helps my speed/agility though. Even in indirect ways, like improved core strength helps me get around the kit better. Also being in shape reduces fatigue for me.

oh for sure
my answer to everything is to plank more
i have weird new muscles on my forearms from speed practice though -- i don't think it's related to my workouts since the muscles are so small

Today's routine:

Warmed up by jumping rope
3x "supersets" of kettlebell vertical pulls into shoulder presses (x10) followed by 10 "navy 8 count" pushups (sort of like a burpee pushup with a couple extra steps)
3x "supersets" of 10 TRX rows followed by 10 TRX squats
3x "supersets" of 10 TRX pushups followed by 10 high box jumps followed by 20 mountain climbers

I was actually pretty bushed and drenched in sweat from that, maybe like 35 mins total.

"healthy and lean" is so amorphous an idea--i think you gotta have swoleness or some other benchmark in mind or else working out just feels like punching a clock. imo!

― ryan, Tuesday, August 25, 2015 10:13 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

feel like if you just get into the habit of pushing yrself you dont really need goals, like you just know what it feels like

which is not to say u wont notice that u can lift more run further etc

^^^ troof

I believe I'm at approximately 3 months of 3x per week now, and today I really noticed a difference in my overall fitness -- didn't get winded from the crazy combinations that used to make me want to puke, was doing at least 20% more weight on several exercises without having trouble finishing a set, etc.

Another interesting thing -- don't know if there is some scientific explanation -- is that my appetite/cravings are changing. I feel less urge to eat sugar and carbs, in fact I feel almost averse to eating too much of them.

So I got another free training session, different trainer this time, much better imo. This guy emphasized power-lifting and doing leg day/chest day/back day. The thing is, I don't really have good squat form and I also never learned deadlifting.

BUT, the training sessions are super expensive. No way I can afford the 1x per week regimen the guy tried to sell me on. Could maybe swing 1x per month.

Anyway, I'm wondering if it's possible to learn good squat, deadlift and bench form without a trainer or if it's just a bad idea and asking for injury?

You can do it! Just go slow, pay attention to how your body feels, watch videos, use light weight, and focus on things like flexibility and balance. A trainer can't step inside your body so you've got to sorta "find" good form through reps for yourself anyway. It's a journey. Don't go heavy and you won't get hurt.

cool thx! I really liked the dude and he was a great salesman too, but it's just so way beyond my budget it's not even something I can consider. But it does feel like now that I've been at this very consistently for a few months, I am making progress but there is a missing ingredient.

Apparently my hip strength is a weak spot. I never would have known.

i have never had a trainer and i think my deadlift form is a+ because there are really so few steps to doing it right. also i cannot recommend goblet squats enough. i am back to barbell squatting now but i think they are more fun. just limited by how heavy of a dumbbell you can carry in your arms (which is part of the fun of it, it works your arms and lats to hoist it off the ground). it really helps your flexibility and hips and teaches you to force your knees out. i do like 5 sets of 5 at 50-55 lbs or so and get so sweaty.

gonna try the more strength-oriented program for at least a few weeks I think. Did chest today -- 3 sets bar bench presses, 3 sets incline dumbbell presses, 3 sets cable cross fly, 3 sets bodyweight dips, all 10 reps and at weights where I could barely complete 3 sets of ten. I followed that with some abs and then brief cardio. I definitely feel different after this kind of workout than after my old one -- before I would be sweatier by the end and then leave the gym with a kind of pep in my step, whereas this leaves me feeling a little stiffer and slower, though maybe just getting used to it. OTOH I feel like I'm going to see visible results more quickly with this, like I just feel like I did much more to the muscles I worked, much sorer.

One thing I've noticed about "starting strength" types (from talking to trainers, reading on the internet, etc.) is that they're almost data-oriented -- very focused on numerically measurable results. You get "gains" in weight you can lift, and, for the heavy lifters, in muscle size. I think my personality is a little averse to this -- I like variety, improvisation, and I don't care much about measuring progress as long as I can sense it.