Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

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hahahaha

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/16/tax-credits-question-time-labour-conservative

OwJo largely on point

Schama's elegant riposte to Liddle on QT last night, most of the audience were clapping every Lidl utterance on refugees.
"Do not presume to lecture me about the inadequacy of an emotional response. Go back to your journalistic hackery about outcomes and turn your suburban face away from the plight of the miserable."

so the tory apparently had no response to the woman with the tax credits question, do i have that right? i can't watch QT anymore.

none at all, nothing to see here next question

Security. Stability. Opportunity.

Schama's elegant riposte to Liddle on QT last night, most of the audience were clapping every Lidl utterance on refugees.
"Do not presume to lecture me about the inadequacy of an emotional response. Go back to your journalistic hackery about outcomes and turn your suburban face away from the plight of the miserable."

that really is elegant!

Could've gone to blows if they were sitting next to each other.

Don't know why I'm watching bits of QT again (*shakes fist at John McDonnell*) however wrt to that Owen Jones piece its more about educating rather than "love-bombing". Many of them are happy with benefit cuts as long as it doesn't impact on them.

http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2015/oct/16/homeless-children-dying-at-the-sharp-end-of-the-housing-crisis?CMP=share_btn_tw

This link has the follow-up on the baby from Bournemouth. I posted a link about a month or so ago from the local press.

One thing I have noticed first hand in recent years is that on the road adjacent to mine are a couple of rows of 1 bedroom upper/lower flats which 8 years ago were mostly populated by marginal types - some criminal types, some working poor, oddbods that kept snakes + reptiles in tanks and some with obvious mental health problems. Just in the last 5 years the demographic has changed dramatically to mainly young families and some of them have 2 children. that a lot of these marginal/vulnerable types seem to be disappearing from social housing to god knows where (oblivian?) is just as depressing as young families taking their places in such cramped conditions.

i feel like the former is pretty inarguably more depressing but idk

well it's directly due to the benefit cap right? plenty of housing association and private flats in hackney near where i used to live used to be occupied by people just barely getting by, but there's no way they can pay for those flats with whatever's left from £500 after their jobseeker's benefit, child benefit etc is taken out. the character of the neighborhood around well street for instance has just totally changed now.

would any ilxors join prince charles and snub xi jinping? when there's so little prospect having any positive impact on chinese affairs critics are in quite a tight spot. my chinese colleague has taken some holiday and will get up at 3am tmw to go down to see the leader, concerned that he won't have much support. I wonder how many britons abroad would get up at 3am for cameron

wrt to that Owen Jones piece its more about educating rather than "love-bombing". Many of them are happy with benefit cuts as long as it doesn't impact on them

I'm not sure many people struggling on low incomes are going to be particularly well-disposed to being "educated" by politicians right now - the left should really be able to talk to these people using the language of self-interest.

Well, surely even the dogs in the street could tell that the working poor, just getting by with help of in-work benefits, had nothing to gain and much to fear from a tory victory in may. Some people just would not be persuaded until they actually find themselves out of pocket, and it's far too late.

I think there is a certain 'they came for the unemployed/disabled, but i wasn't unemployed/disabled...' element to this, sadly.

Neimöller's words aren't a caution for Tories, ithey're a fucking blueprint.

Education needn't mean a lecture, top-down. One of the better things Corbyn has talked about is the need to make policy using consultation, certainly something more democratic than the leadership looking at results from polls and focus groups (that reflect attitudes shaped by the press in vicious circle) and formulating policy that will pander to people.

I've no clear idea to detail the inner workings of an "education" but attitudes on all sides have to change otherwise relying on people's selfish interest is a no-go. Vote Labour if I go hungry one min and Tories if I have a bit of money is not a strategy. A wider conversation has to be had.

today's LOL:

Nick Cohen ‏@NickCohen4

Has anyone had friendships break up or tested because of the Corbyn election? If so, please contact me

Tom Gann ‏@Tom_Gann

Hi, @NickCohen4, I've had a couple of strained conversations with anarchist friends over my not totally rejecting Corbyn, can you help me?

I've no clear idea to detail the inner workings of an "education" but attitudes on all sides have to change otherwise relying on people's selfish interest is a no-go. Vote Labour if I go hungry one min and Tories if I have a bit of money is not a strategy. A wider conversation has to be had.

It's also possible to over-rely on the empathy of the electorate, especially on that of people who are really struggling themselves. Some of these people are likely to be relatively uneducated and only engaging in the debate through the sort of media outlets that have deliberately let people think that 'benefits' are for the unemployed. If they are engaging at all. Some of these people will be doing more than one job and supporting families - how does 'consultation' reach people who are short on both money and time? But if the Labour Party can't talk honestly to working class people about advancing their interests then they're in more trouble than I thought.

Nick Cohen ‏@NickCohen4
Has anyone had friendships break up or tested because of the Corbyn election? If so, please contact me

Might have to start by explaining what a friend is to Nick Cohen.

I am not saying 'consultation' -- that was more around formulating future policies but yes Labour (or any party) members probably have a bit more time, or make that commitment. I used that to show that at least one of the parties are listening to more ppl/willing to have more open conversations, just a change in attitude I want see carried over somehow.

People have voted against their interests time and again which makes me think voting for your interest (and yours alone) is a problem. Don't feel its right to plug into their selfishness for some short-term votes. "Love-bombing" someone who was quite happy to see other poor disabled people being sacrificed is not an amazing approach.

Media obviously plays a huge part in the construction of self-interest or selfishness though. It's rarely 'let's f' the disabled' more an angle where 'scroungers' are vilified as part of an argument that supports policies, which also affect the disabled. Yes that may be obvious in one sense, but it's rarely presented that way. I'm not sure i want to see anyone love-bombed tho.

Nobody has mentioned that this woman was a voter in Thanet, where lots of people like her voted Tory so as not to elect Nigel Farage. I'm really not into that whole 'serves her right' cruelty, because the 2015 Conservative manifesto made a promise not to cut tax credits for young families, but as a result I think quite a few voters in precarious or low-paid work won't forget they were lied to.

Or not 'happy', she has kids and a struggling business and thought she'd have more of an income (this is why I say conversation, important for both sides to learn and certain not to demonise one another). And much of the damage was done by a Labour party that refused to talk about all that welfare does do.

Still, no love-bombing.

Voting in your own self-interest, I'm not suggesting a poll or anything, but has anyone here ever done it?

It's a bit like those tables and graphs newspapers produce after a Budget to show how you (and your family) might lose or benefit as a result, anyone ever look at them?

Surely everyone votes in their own self interest? Isn't that the point of voting?

Is it? Maybe I've done it without thinking I've done it.

My general view is that the government shouldn't be making policy for the likes of me, I can take care of myself. I also think some people have more perspective wrt what's in their own interest than others do (and that's not unique to any one income group). But srsly what's actually wrong with convincing some of the poorest people in the country that voting Labour would be in their own self-interest? It doesn't mean they're going to immediately vote Tory as soon as they move into a different tax bracket, if that ever happens.

I wouldn' t have imagined that many people vote for a party that they genuinely believe if elected would make the country a worse place to live.

Yeah but they might be prepared to personally take a bit of a hit in order to make the country better. The poorer you are, the less likely that is to happen.

Well, yes, who has ever voted on the basis that they are personally going to be better off?

McDonnell and Labour will reverse tax credit cuts. They'll convince ppl of that much and it should be an easy, short conversation?

To me it leaves a gap.

Oh...

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/131566490399/seumas-milne-appointed-labours-executive-director

Oh for shit's sake.

I'm voting Tory.

Why the actual fuck would you go ahead and appoint a Director of Communications who, at a stroke, underlines all your detractors' worst impressions of you? I mean, I know Cameron did it but look how that turned out.

kinda lol mostly sad

"Who can we get it to convince the press I'm not a closet Stalinist? I know... Seumas Milne!"

every seamus milne article ive ever read has been the most simplistic, kneejerk, stereotypically "lefty" load of crud imaginable. sort of a perfect fit for the corbynites, but can we all just agree now that electorally labour are absolutely doomed?

Milne was the business manager of Straight Left, a monthly publication of an orthodox factional group within the Communist Party of Great Britain.[8] Milne worked as a staff journalist for three years on The Economist before joining The Guardian

Genuinely intrigued as to what he must have said in his Economist interview.

I was a member of a far-left grouplet as a student (not CPGB) and the senior comrades were always encouraging us to read the Economist, thought very highly of it

know your enemy

there's that old observation about the articles in Militant and the Economist being almost interchangeable, just replace the last paragraph from 'this shows the need for a fighting Labour party that will nationalise the commanding heights of the economy etc etc' to 'this shows the needs for liberalising the labour market, dead hand of government etc etc'

That may be the case, but I was always under the impression that the Economist liked its journalists to be true believers.

"The pace of these reforms is s too hard and too fast"

and like is the slower fucking strangulation of disabled people a more palatable option, you tory twat?

Seamus Milne is a guy whose comms 'policy' will be to tell the Mail to go fuck itself, repeatedly.

When will the good news stop?

My take (which is probably naive) is that he picked someone who he could trust for a position where the wrong candidate could undermine and potentially destroy him. And there are already plenty enough people trying to do that.