Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

Cameron says he agrees. There is honour on both sides, he says.

That's the closest thing to an apology you'll get in the Commons.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wtwqPYcoabg/hqdefault.jpg

(started looking for same image, gave up when I realised someone else would have found one by now)

I'm cheered by the fact there's a big debate happening publicly over a cosmetic and token military gesture. In the Blair years I feel like they would have just done it and we would have been all, oh well, yes, got to help out our allies I suppose, NBD, war on terrorism, whatcha gon do. Maybe it's naive to feel this way, I don't know.

'Debate'? Is that what this is?

ffs at all the labour mps using this opportunity to whine about the 'horrific abuse' they are suffering from all quarters

To members of Parliament, before you cast your vote, I beg of you, each and every one of you to please think of the misery and agony and suffering of those Labour MPs. Cameron's terrorist sympathizer (planned) outburst seems to have backfired, but not spectacularly enough.

Nobody is abusing the pro-bombing Labour MPs - even Stella Creasy's FB page is pretty much a majority of very polite people asking her to vote no.

Hasn't stopped people spreading bullshit about people marching to Stella Creasy's house (they didn't, it was her constituency office)

They marched FROM A MOSQUE.

http://i.imgur.com/fpO9LoK.png

Gulag time:

According to Guardian research, these Labour MPs are in favour of airstrikes:

Heidi Alexander

Hilary Benn

Tom Blenkinsop

Chris Bryant

Vernon Coaker

Ann Coffey

Mary Creagh

Simon Danczuk

Michael Dugher

Maria Eagle

Natascha Engel (but can’t vote as deputy speaker)

Jim Fitzpatrick

Caroline Flint

Mike Gapes (would vote, but is unwell in hospital)

Dan Jarvis

Helen Jones

Alan Johnson

Chris Leslie

Holly Lynch

Siobhain McDonagh

Lucy Powell

Jamie Reed

Angela Smith

Gisela Stuart

Chuka Umunna

Tom Watson

John Woodcock
We are aware of another five Labour MPs who are minded to vote for airstrikes but who have not made up their minds.

That's fewer than I'd expected... no Liz or Tristram in there, which is surprising.

I guess that might not be an exhaustive list, just the ones confirmed?

Just the shadow Defence, Foreign and Health ministers...

"There are those not opposed in principle to action who doubt the efficacy of what is proposed. A coalition action that rests wholly on bombing, they say, will have little effect. Well, tell that to the Kosovans. Don’t forget, if there had been no bombing in Kosovo perhaps a million Albanian Muslim refugees would have been seeking refuge in Europe."

So yeah cos of Kosovo we should now bomb Syria. Makes sense.

Margaret Beckett is also on the Yes list, so not exhaustive by any means.

Moreover, our French allies have asked us for such support, and I invite the House to consider how we would feel, and what we would say, if what took place in Paris had happened in London, if we had explicitly asked France for support and France had refused.

Getting into the territory of "if your son had been murdered you'd support the death penalty" now...

Yes I'm sure the list is to be updated and enlarged in time.

if there had been no bombing in Kosovo perhaps a million Albanian Muslim refugees would have been seeking refuge in Europe

No actual British bomb can match the devastating logic magnitude of this truth trident :o

Think how many extra refugees it saved us...

there are those who doubt the efficacy of a cavalry charge

lol Yvette cooper 'I don't think the prime minister has made a strong enough case but lets get bombing anyway'

It is understood a number of Labour MPs have received similar messages. Liz Kendall, the former leadership contender, who is still undecided, received a tweet calling for “a final solution to purge Blairite scum” like her from the party.

Just a bit of social media lets be cool

Yvette Cooper, the former leadership contender who leads Corbyn’s taskforce on refugees

...

nusrat ghani talking so much shit

keep on bombing those chickens and they'll probably need yvette and a cooper

'stop looking at previous wars and trying to learn lessons from them'

gonna have to stop tweeting Labour MPs if they're onto me

I wonder if one "blowback" would be an increased number of refugees as this country slides deeper into the conflict and the government having to increase the number allowed in? Probably not as UK involvement is so small.

Yvette's “We should be ready to review and ready to withdraw” is just the anaemic stance she showed on anything throughout her leadership campaign -- so glad Corbyn is leader. If she had been elected I guess her stance would be in a minority with the rest of the PLP or would most of them follow their leader?

She (Gisela Stuart) says that she will be supporting the motion "because it is good enough"

Aye, fuck it, it'll do, when do we get started?

gotta nuke something

STOP GOING ON ABOUT THREATS

US Senator John McCain has said British involvement in coalition air strikes against so-called IS in Syria will be of limited value. He told the BBC's Washington correspondent Jon Sopel it was good to have allies on board, "and then we can go to Geneva and say we are 30 nations, or 50 nations".

"Then we will have some token aircraft over there from the British and they'll drop a few bombs, and we'll say thank you very much. The president will be able to say 'now we have the British who will be helping us', and that's good."

He said he wasn't saying that UK air strikes would achieve nothing, but added:

"Air strikes alone won't win a conflict but it's good to have increased air strikes, it's good to have increased air activities, it's good to have shows of support from our British friends... So I'm glad of it, thank you, we appreciate it! But to say that it's going to make a significant difference, no I've got to be a little more candid than that."

Yay for Britain! And the other 49 nations!

That's one very special relationship we have going on there! Yay! I feel so proud!

Gisela Stuart, Labour MP for Birmingham Edgbaston, said she was pleased that her inbox has been full of messages from people telling her not to vote in favour of airstrikes. “I would be deeply troubled if my email inbox was full of people gung-ho saying ‘go and get them,” she said, but she will vote in favour of airstrikes.

I keep seeing new contenders for quote of the day but this takes some beating, in context.

Lib Dems leader says we must tackle 'evil death cult'

... and once we've dealt with this Corbyn led Labour Party we will go after Daesh.

Alan Johnson attacks 'self-righteous finger-jabbing' activists

Ex-Labour minister not happy with tactics of new leader's supporters

In case anyone thinks they've forgotten the really important issues.

This debate is the gift that keeps giving tbh.

very unreasonable of constituents to tell their MPs how they want them to vote

this thing sounds like the Parliamentary equivalent of a show trial

Following from that, wrt threats of deselection - if your MP keeps undermining not only the elected leadership, but activists and the majority of constituency members wishes w/these kinds of piss-poor arguments why should these same councillors and activists campaign on your behalf at election time?

Deselection isn't on the table anyway according to Corbyn, but even if it were I don't think the contents of an email inbox is exactly a representative sample.

Waiting for someone to say that they had a very strong vision that Jesus came down to them and warned them against voting for airstrikes, but they will be voting for airstrikes anyway.

the entitlement is staggering, but you have to ask who let these buffoons in in the first place?

The Labour peer (Baroness Smith) adds that "many MPs with the same information" will come to different conclusions, and condemns "those who abuse, intimidate or threaten them".

Not sure how much more of this boohooing I can stand.

it's unreal! they are talking about dropping bombs on an actual city as being a great and brave kindness, whereas an email saying 'youll have blood on your hands' or whatever is outrageous intimidation

Andrew Murrison argues this is not 2003

it is such classic rhetorical bullshit to start making this some kind of philosophical "we'll never know the true course here, every man and woman must follow their heart, far be it from me to tell anyone what we should do but btw i am voting for bombs"

"history will judge us more harshly if we don't bomb them and nothing changes"

Well we don't actually know what these people have actually received - I'm guessing "you'll have blood on your hands" would be at the mildest end of the spectrum, the final solution one is definitely beyond the pale. And given everything we know about online behaviour it's likely that there are a few rape and death threats in there. Nothing compared to being literally blown up by bombs from your brave liberators, obviously.

"I am literally from the future and I have seen the devastating consequences with my own eyes... but I will be voting for airstrikes anyway".