Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

Andrew Murrison argues this is not 2003

it is such classic rhetorical bullshit to start making this some kind of philosophical "we'll never know the true course here, every man and woman must follow their heart, far be it from me to tell anyone what we should do but btw i am voting for bombs"

"history will judge us more harshly if we don't bomb them and nothing changes"

Well we don't actually know what these people have actually received - I'm guessing "you'll have blood on your hands" would be at the mildest end of the spectrum, the final solution one is definitely beyond the pale. And given everything we know about online behaviour it's likely that there are a few rape and death threats in there. Nothing compared to being literally blown up by bombs from your brave liberators, obviously.

"I am literally from the future and I have seen the devastating consequences with my own eyes... but I will be voting for airstrikes anyway".

death threats backed by actual planes with actual bombs feel worse than the Twitter kind somehow

presumably the RAF pilots will be doffing their helmets and shouting "sorry" to their targets

I apologize to anyone I may have caused offence to by blowing their child's head off.

I mean if they've had really gross threats then yeah that should probably be what they should use their 5 minutes to highlight. Online death threats are several million magnitudes less serious than bombing people's homes, their hubris in deciding that they have to stand up and make a point about the former before they address the latter is appalling.

I mean if they've had really gross threats then yeah that should probably be what they should use their 5 minutes to highlight.

Phone the police, or what's left of them.

'IVE FELT THE THREATS WITH MY OWN HANDS'

LOL @ this "follow your conscience" business. Yes you are responsible for casting the vote but actually you look at what has been presented, listen to different constitutent and member views and arrive at an informed decision.

As an MP you are taking life and death decisions (tax credits or going to war) - if you are not expecting aggravation, to say the least, then you need to take another job.

need a Respect agenda for our beleaguered public servants

Anyway, well done to Alan Johnson et al for getting Cameron off the hook (and off the front pages) with his "terrorist sympathizers" comment and persistent refusal to apologize for it.

The opening of the debate may have been uninspiring (see 1.20pm) but in the last two hours or more it has picked up because the backbench contributions have generally been impressive. If you are looking for the highlights, here are five of the best.

1) Tim Farron. In a debate that has involved a lot of dry discussion about strategy and the composition of opposition forces in Syria, Farron’s speech stood out because it was unashamedly emotional and passionate.

No thanks.

Crossbench peer and former Army chief Lord Dannatt calls for "constructive dialogue" with Russia, Iran, Turkey and others to develop a common position on Syria. He also claims that Syrians to not want to see their government overthrown completely, adding that "we need to work with the Syrian armed forces" against the so-called Islamic State group.

This is what we're moving towards, leaving the barrel-bombin' nerve-gassin' Syrian government (with or without Assad the Opthalmologist) in place, more or less intact.

Conservative Johnny Mercer says "we are in danger of almost overcomplicating" the issue before the House.

Somehow I doubt that.

particularly since Johnny's "solution" is "bomb the bastards"

HERE'S JOHNNY

I fee very strongly about national security. I’ve seen the threats that we face with my own eyes and I’ve felt them with my own hands. We have a privileged way of life in this country, a free democracy and a free speech society and a healthy economy... We are chiefly blessed because over the generations we’ve had men and women who believe so much in this nation that they’ve taken difficult political decisions and some have even taken up arms and sacrificed everything to protect this way of life. Mr Speaker, I’ve become worried of late that we’ve lost some of that spirit.

what does he mean when he says he's "felt the threats" with his own hands

More speaking out against abuse from all-action man Dan Jarvis:

Let us be very clear, there is principle in opposing military action, just like there is principle in supporting it. Everyone must have the freedom, either in this place or outside, to say what they believe to be right without the fear of recrimination

the pro-bombers are starting to sound relativist in the worst possible way.

Britain didn't become Great by being afraid to kill a few brown people thousands of miles away.

Mr Speaker, I’ve become worried of late that we’ve lost some of that spirit.

we can get it back by dropping exploding pieces of metal on syria and murdering all who are near the place where they fall

Miliband voting no, as are Blairites Ivan Lewis and Barry Sheerman, presumably at least partly because they remember what actually happened to Blair.

man some of yr politicians are really dumb

what time do u guys vote for war?

I like my blood pressure at its current level, thanks, so I'm just following this and the graun blog, but is there a correlation between those mentioning 'conscience' and a yes vote?

How many of the people sending in 'abuse' are actually Corbyn supporters, instead of the usual comments trolls and socks from other parties?

'pinned in our forces, pinned down our forces, pinned back our forces'

'angry intolerant pacifism'

sorry to all in barrow-in-furness that this absolute garbage is the best you've got

so vast is the ocean of stupid comments in westminster today it stands to reason one of them would be about israel

Coming back to the issue of fear, I think we must have the courage to do what we think is right, irrespective of the inevitable backlash. I have faced physical threats over how I might vote on this issue. Those threats are unacceptable and do not shape my position or decision. Quite the opposite.

Is Neil Coyle saying (incoherently) that he is voting to bomb Syria out of spite for twitter trolls?

That is not what he his saying, though it's not clear if that's clear to him.

Those threats are unacceptable and do not shape my position or decision. Quite the opposite.

If they do not influence him in any way, why the fuck is he spending parliamentary time talking about it?

only 2 mps representing scottish constituencies are going to vote for the bombing and the election of one of them, alistair Carmichael, is under legal challenge

#bettertogether

All independence would do is let Scotland feel moral superiority, "there's no blood on our hands". It's times like this I'm glad we have the SNP in a UK Parliament having the courage to say no to this, even if the cynic in me questions whether its a populist move or not. To say things like this makes me uneasy, I'd rather be actively making a difference in a bigger pond.

think Cameron feels the same way

She begins to get emotional and pauses to compose herself. “When I go through the ayes lobby, it will be for the refugees and it will be for the security in Twickenham.”

:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtSbedMeF6s

really want to make a video of non-stop bombing footage over this tune but hey i got work in the morning

Just watched a BBC reporter trying to persuade a (Syrian) representative of a charity that works in Syria of the wisdom of bombing campaign - is this what the BBC is for?

yes and always has been iirc

This morning Humphrys rudely cut off a Syrian guest on Today who was making a persuasive argument for not killing civilians.

If he'd done that to a pro-bombing Labour MP no doubt they would have made an emotional speech about it in Parliament to day.

Top 90s nostalgia from NV there.

Can we hurry with the voting I want my final Gulag list k tx bye

simon hoare: "this is not a war, it's a recalibration of an existing operation"

Labour peer Lord Rooker has strong words for the his party's front bench in the Commons, comparing the exploitation by IS of the "innate tolerance" of the UK with "the way the anti-British trots in the Labour Party are using our tolerance to get control".

"Daesh are coming for us," he says, and warns of the lessons of Munich: "If you don't fight when attacked, you lose."

Leaving his strongest words about Jeremy Corbyn until last, the former minister says:

"I'm in the terrible position of having been in Westminster since February 1974 and believing that there are members of the cabinet that I would rather have as prime minister than my own party leader - we need to get rid of him."

Send of those Brimstone things to Islington perhaps?

Salmond's glowering at Cameron when asking him to apologise earlier was quite exhilarating nay terrifying.

A lot of these MPs are the result of the moral vacuum created by successive bad regimes.

Benn invoking the children in his leadership bid right now.

LOL @ "Hollande in our sister socialist party"