Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

Far be it from me to agree with the Sun but...

More LOLz:

The former footballer Stan Collymore has cancelled his Labour membership and joined the Scottish National party in protest at the votes by “Tory lite” Labour MPs in favour of air strikes on Syria.

That's a bit like supporting Germany in protest at and England Footballer booting his penalty over the crossbar.

and

As an English person living in England, what exactly does he believe he has to contribute to (or gain from) the SNP?

Publicity.

I think people - not all of whom are articulate or polite - are entitled to their anger and disappointment with people they may have voted for, are entitled to lobby their representatives, and are not in any way bullies. MPs with money, power and options are painting themselves as victims of people with so much less of all of those things, and it's NAGL.

The Sun's editors and journalists would know about useful idiocy. They do it at work every day.

What bugged me was Hilary Benn's speech was how much it sounded like Tony Benn in tone but not in content.

Yes, if only he'd devoted his speech to eulogising Mao instead.

After the initial somewhat genuine outbursts and expressions of anger and rage and disgust, whether misguided or poorly thought through; always the more measured and studied response of who can appear the most jaded and worldweary and cynical in their reactions to the former.

^I just tried to Like that post, Branwell...

Searching for glimmers of hope in the news:

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/dec/03/michael-gove-scraps-criminal-courts-charge

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n24/james-meek/a-raqqa-of-the-mind

Critics of Western intervention in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya lament the deaths of civilians, the eruption of previously contained sectarian or tribal conflicts, and the provocation of terrorist attacks on the interveners’ home countries. Less talked about is a fourth unpleasant consequence – more interventions. For all the concern at the spread of Salafist ideology around the world, there is surprisingly little concern at the spread of interventionist ideology – the creed that country A is entitled to take military action against, or within, country B, without the consent of the government of country B (if it has one) or any evidence that it poses a threat to country A.

Ah memories...

But Mr Benn said the “terrible events in Paris” meant it was “even more important that we bring the Syrian civil war to an end” before considering air strikes on Isis. He outlined his thinking: “Why? Because the vacuum in which Isil/Daesh [Islamic State] in Syria thrives is a consequence of that civil war.

“Therefore I hope that the talks that are taking place really will redouble their efforts to say, look we’ve got a find a way of bringing this to a conclusion – we’ve got to bring this to an end. Because then, people can then really focus their efforts on the threat from Isil/Daesh and the circumstances in Syria will have changed.”

Mr Benn, who supports military intervention to protect civilians, said he did not think the Government was planning to come forward with a proposal to extend air strikes from Iraq into Syria.

But asked if he thought they should, Mr Benn said: “No.” He added: “They have to come up with an overall plan, which they have not done. I think the focus for now is finding a peaceful solution to the civil war.”

The shadow Foreign Secretary added: “The most useful contribution we can make is to support as a nation the peace talks that have started. That is the single most important thing we can do.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hilary-benn-shadow-foreign-secretary-says-labour-wont-back-air-strikes-on-syria-a6734651.html

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/03/hidden-politics-syria-vote-airstrikes-war

many were fighting other wars. The phalanx of 66 Labour MPs voting with Cameron were part motivated by gesturing against Corbyn. That’s not selfish sectarianism but realistic fear that Labour may never survive the Corbyn era. Benn and other senior figures’ call to war was a bid for Labour to be taken seriously, not as a rabble of permanent protesters. To vote for war is grown-up politics about Britain’s place in the world, a solid reminder of what Labour in power used to feel like.

"Grown-up".

fuck's sake polly

Fantastic, and completely undercut by the next sentence: To vote for war is grown-up politics about Britain’s place in the world, a solid reminder of what Labour in power used to feel like. But that political imperative still doesn’t make it right to join the vortex of Syria.

So 'grown-up' politics is about bluster and appearance and not at all concerned with practical realities.

wow

To vote for war is grown-up politics about Britain’s place in the world, a solid reminder of what Labour in power used to feel like.

this...sentence...

dan hodges is such a fucking joke of a writer/human being

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVTWo4FWUAAx9W0.jpg

jesus christ

That makes sense, there's a lot of Bombs for Peace around these days.

Every time Dan Hodges makes me angry I remember that as a teenager he designed a one-player Falklands War board game, that only he has played.

That Dan Hodges thing

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Ha!

You can wash that stuff off these days.

I remember that as a teenager he designed a one-player Falklands War board game, that only he has played.

― Matt DC, Thursday, December 3, 2015 1:45 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

omg is this true? loooooool

Its why I wanted the quote to stop there (but obv with the link). Its such a ridiculous thing to say, especially post-Iraq. xposts

He inverted the House

Is this anything like the Yippies trying to levitate the White House during in the late 60s?

They had said they needed two days of debate. War. Peace. To bomb Isil. Not to bomb Isil. The issues were too complex. The stakes too high. The arguments too nuanced.
They were wrong.

This is just... the stupidest fucking thing I have ever read. Thank god this idiot popinjay doesn't have any actual power.

It was like watching the witch from the Wizard of Oz who has just had a bucket of water thrown over her. All the talk of his “mandate”. All the talk of his legions of new activists. They were destroyed in an instant. Crushed by Hilary Benn and 100 years of the Labour party’s accumulated moral authority.

do they know something we don't? honestly how does this campaign in syria end in anything but disaster? who would hitch their wagon to this particular star?

I'm not exactly reassured that such decisions can be made on "one speech, one moment" tbh.

You can practically see him popping champagne corks with that last bit.

Thing is, the government would have won the vote comfortably even if every single Labour MP had voted no, this is entirely about making Corbyn look foolish.

he inverted the house and landed it right on top of the wicked witch of the left

The vote wasn't about Corbyn. iirc Cameron wanted a vote on Syrian intervention before the attacks but felt there would be enough Tory rebels or not a big enough majority to carry out air strikes. It was only post-Paris that the opportunity presented itself for the vote. Making Corbyn look bad is only a side-issue.

Labour are badly divided on almost all big issues.

I meant for Hodges, not the MPs themselves.

Sorry Matt - misread.

Also on Tracer's point - we don't know whether the Syrian campaign will end in a disaster in such a way that will be a plus for Corbyn or in a way that would kill off Benn and that rabble for good out of Labour, say. Its all symbolic, a few bombs.

Or it could end in disaster but it might take years to know, by which time Corbyn will probably be gone and we will all be in the midst of the next intervention.

Corbyn, in this respect, is almost to be seen as 'conscience of the country' - type figure.

Seems most likely - unless they hit a wedding or something - that there won't be conclusive evidence either way and whoever the media sides with will set the narrative.

I think people - not all of whom are articulate or polite - are entitled to their anger and disappointment with people they may have voted for, are entitled to lobby their representatives, and are not in any way bullies. MPs with money, power and options are painting themselves as victims of people with so much less of all of those things, and it's NAGL.

― voodoo rage (suzy), Thursday, 3 December 2015 12:07 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

After the initial somewhat genuine outbursts and expressions of anger and rage and disgust, whether misguided or poorly thought through; always the more measured and studied response of who can appear the most jaded and worldweary and cynical in their reactions to the former.

― La Düsseldork (Branwell with an N), Thursday, 3 December 2015 12:24 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

1000x otm

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVTjUhqUkAA6bjd.jpg

That may well be fake obv.

I assume the asterisks are the letters g, r, o, v and e.

Someone should be able to verify this now :-)

ah, the joy of replying to someone who signed with their title with the colloquial form of their first name while imploring them to learn respect. what's the smiley about tho is he an ilxor or

nah it was just a LOL moment as the name wasn't disguised throughout.

Why does Godwin's Law apply on the internet. but not in Parliament?

hilary benn, two weeks ago: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hilary-benn-shadow-foreign-secretary-says-labour-wont-back-air-strikes-on-syria-a6734651.html

“They have to come up with an overall plan, which they have not done. I think the focus for now is finding a peaceful solution to the civil war.”

The shadow Foreign Secretary added: “The most useful contribution we can make is to support as a nation the peace talks that have started. That is the single most important thing we can do.”

sorry, Inspiring Orator Hilary Benn

I didn't think the Benn speech was even particularly good as a piece of oration.

couldn't hear his speech tbh, there was a weird spinning noise in the background