Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

If he resigned would Corbyn be eligible to stand again?

Anyway, like to think he'll stay if Labour do well in the local elections - but a disunited party is unlikely to do that. And I think Labour can go back to fail "All Those People Who Depend" as usual.

If more of All Those People Who Depend would actually vote for a labour government there might be one but hey ho

It's not really disunited though, just a few Blairites throwing their toys out of the pram. The media reaction to this is some proper Westminster bubble stuff.

Labour has been disunited since about 1960 or so, some leaders are just better at maintaining a facade of unity.

I wish at least one Blairite would admit the error in sending a message last year that All Those People Who Depend would get fuck all from any putative Labour government, but that would require a level of self-examination and humility that seem to be in short supply.

Social media hasn't helped - looks like its speeding up the bad feeling and descent into disintegration.

This is coming from someone who Does Not Depend, but ultimately good with Labour tearing itself apart - such a farce that they are helping anyone in the first place. Imagine a parallel Burnham/Yvette administration and the same stuff happens - cuts to welfare leading to deaths and suicides, except with no hope of standing up for Welfare as a good thing. Housing Bill is given a triffle of opposition. No attempt to put up a fight against the Syrian bombing - whose outcome has been what, exactly?

One thing that current Labour are *not* doing is sleepwalking.

I think even a Burnham/Cooper would be better than Cam/Osbourne, the problem is they're still over-reliant on the Blair nudge/wink thing - talking tough in the media while doing something different (if inadequate) in office. Blair was elected on convincing half the country he'd be more left-wing than promised, and convincing the other half of the exact opposite. The Labour right still cling to the idea that that con trick is possible, despite the splintering of their voter base into multiple different directions. They're as responsible for Corbyn as anyone else is.

Anyway we've done this a million times.

Rawnsley in the Observer yesterday, amid some largely uninteresting stuff about Labour and Trident, pointed out how massive the EU vote will be on the result of the next Tory leadership election (short version = if he's prominent in the In campaign, then Osborne is fucked).

He will have to be involved if the primary argument for staying in is economic and business is lining up behind them. If the UK votes no and Cameron steps aside, he's reasonably well positioned as a safe pair of hands to deal with the inevitable economic fallout. If they vote yes, he can say the issue is settled for the interim and the Tories can get on with voting for a leader who is electable but doesn't represent the grass roots again. It's difficult, for obvious reasons, to point to an economically credible anti-EU front bencher with the profile to take over if Cameron quits.

I suspect that there will be enough of a renegotiation to save face on both sides. The EU has enough trouble brewing in Central Europe atm.

ffs reading a bunch of the Star Wars thread now has me reading 'EU' as 'expanded universe'

Labour has been disunited since about 1960 or so

since 1900 without much exaggeration. Atlee was only the candidate that all sides hated the least, but obv in 1945 compromise was possible in a way that the moderate, won't-somebody-think-of-the-hard-working-families? wing of today's party will not countenance

does anyone else find it bizarre that David Cameron is waxing lyrical about 'tiger mothers' in 2016? I thought that was a buzzword whose heyday had passed about 4 years ago?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3394842/Cameron-praises-hard-work-ethos-demands-end-win-prizes-culture.html

jesus that reads like parody

is it just me or is cameron showing his true colors a little more these days?

I guess the tiger mother stuff slots in with the right-wing narratives about how the west has become uncompetitive + soft, and that we need to make the economy more 'dynamic' to prevent China from overtaking us?

complaints about the 'all must win prizes' culture seem sort of old-school as well, idk

think it comes from public school culture, the irony of a bunch of ultra-privileged kids believing they're all in a Hobbesian state of nature

No, posh schools also do 'prizes for all' and have done for years: Diana, Princess Of Wales was given a prize for looking after the guinea pig at her boarding school, presumably because they had to recognise the non-scholars and non-athletes somehow.

Keeping the school guinea pig alive is difficult!

I know I wouldn't be able to do it.

RIP Sir Squeaksalot

Yeah yeah, he only got the knighthood for doing his job.

Knighted by David Cameron himself for services etc

He will have to be involved if the primary argument for staying in is economic and business is lining up behind them. If the UK votes no and Cameron steps aside, he's reasonably well positioned as a safe pair of hands to deal with the inevitable economic fallout. If they vote yes, he can say the issue is settled for the interim and the Tories can get on with voting for a leader who is electable but doesn't represent the grass roots again. It's difficult, for obvious reasons, to point to an economically credible anti-EU front bencher with the profile to take over if Cameron quits.

I suspect that there will be enough of a renegotiation to save face on both sides.

If the UK votes no then it will look like a personal failure from his point of view, having made the argument that it would be economically detrimental to the UK, he'll be a significantly diminished figure if he loses. We all know that a narrow victory in a referendum doesn't settle anything, and in that scenario the backlash among Tory members could be so severe that they would consider any prominent anti-EU figurehead over him - especially if Boris or May or whoever set themselves up in that role.

On the other hand, these figures tend to attract coalitions working against them, but the same is also true for Osborne. There could be enough of a split vote that someone unexpected sneaks in, Major-style. It'll be interesting to see which senior Tories disappear from view during the campaign, only to reappear untainted by either side when the hustings really begin.

Honestly, regardless of what the EU ultimately end up offering Cameron, I can't see any any renegotiation satisfying large sections of the press and the Tories. I don't think they'll settle for anything less than a full referendum at this stage.

Boris is a populist but he has a very close relationship to the City and has been swimming against the tide on immigration and the benefits of businesses being able to recruit freely from Europe. I think he'll play his cards close to his chest and come out in favour of staying. May might be more amenable to leaving but has made no indication she'll campaign that way yet.

The only prominent anti-EU figureheads the party has at the moment are IDS and Gove and neither looks viable as a challenger.

There'll definitely be a full referendum but i think Cameron will probably be able to spin whatever he gets in the way of concessions as a victory.

is it just me or is cameron showing his true colors a little more these days?

Not convinced he has any colours, true or not.

imagine iain duncan smith as tory leader

No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man

LOL

But that is not enough for anyone who wants Labour back in power, and who knows that though times have changed, being sound on the economy, strong on defence, and fairer than the Tories remain key messages in a winning formula.

This is the mistake. Stop repeating it.

God, the Labour movement misses Alastair Campbell.

Politics is exactly like football. Tony Blair and Ferguson were winners. Don't you want to win?

Both were shit overseas tbf

nice

a terrible penalty long after 45 minutes

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/20/tory-mp-crispin-blunt-poppers-drug-policy

Good to see Blunt speaking up about this.

On a side note, I didn't know until a few weeks ago that poppers are the antidote to lethal doses of cyanide.

thread title otm

Usual case of conservative compassion in deep hibernation till an issue affects them personally.

'i was going along with all this but there are some lines, sir, that i will not allowed to be crossed and one of those is my own personal enjoyment of bottled butt drugs'

I thought we had a ban on quoting REDACTED

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/22/communist-family-politics-religion

Many of these columnists had commie parents didn't they? Wastage of another column to work off a bit of trauma but certainly the reaction against Corbyn and lefty movements like Momentum, Syriza and Podemos point to all that painful history.

What I hate about this is how Vasily Grossman's name is invoked. Yes he had no love for Stalin or Lenin but I'm finishing a couple of books by him rn and he'd use the same moral force in his writings to decry the 'gulags' of sports direct, zero hour contracts, the cycles of poverty in which large sections of this country are trapped but no its all mummy and daddy had a faith (which is wrong as communism took root in much of the world at that time) and 'times have changed'.

speak my langauge

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/51EE/production/_87847902_typo.png

Snigger

Many of these columnists had commie parents didn't they?

Brought up to hate the Labour Party, the sort of people who vote Labour and the Labour movement in general, so nothing much has changed there then.

He does know how to pick the vote-winning issues...
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/24/jeremy-corbyn-power-sharing-deal-falkland-islands-argentina

Labour leader tells Argentina he’s in favour of Northern Ireland-style deal, while party spokesman says Labour is committed to self-determination

ffs

Northern Ireland-style deal? In other words, no power sharing with a non-UK government and remaining part of the UK?

wasn't Benn's explicit condition of staying that he would not contradict Corbyn?? this is really really really shambolic

hahahaha oh jeez

oh jez morelikeamirite

Is it true what I've been hearing about bees and pesticides?

they didn't make the top 77, no

And did this come to pass:

http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/02/homeless-people-to-be-fined-up-to-1000-for-sleeping-rough-5226481/