Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

phrases I never thought I would write etc.

these people are psychopaths

― conrad, Wednesday, July 15, 2015 1:56 PM (6 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Doctors are, like, universally beloved, no? How is this not a massive own goal for the govt? I know I know they have scored multiple other own goals already, and if voters don't feel for the disabled they aren't going to feel for young doctors...

People will say they care but not enough to actually change their voting intentions, until such point as there's a big NHS disaster, which is surely on the way.

Labour is being really quite weak on health, as if they've decided "ah well, it didn't work with Miliband let's not really bother this time".

I dare say that the tory press will barely mention it. also it really hurts that they are called junior Doctors and there's a deep (but legitimate) misunderstanding of what that actually is.

as if they've decided "ah well, it didn't work with Miliband let's not really bother this time".

which is... fair enough?

Doctors are, like, universally beloved, no?

Nurses might be but doctors aren't. Heard some poll mentioned today, something like 45% of the GBP blame the government for the strike, 15% blame the doctors, 40% think both are to blame.

I dare say that the tory press will barely mention it.

I don't know, keep thinking of Portillo's indignation about it, "Professional people do not go on strike".

Don't see Labour as "weak on health". Aren't they neck-and-neck with the Tories on that issue? And Labour are fully supporting the strikes - which for Labour its expected but not in recent times.

(xp) ... only prole scum do.

They're not really putting the Tories under any serious pressure in an area which should be natural territory for them.

"Neck and neck with the Tories" is doing quite badly given that they used to be comfortably ahead even when they were unpopular on many other issues.

tbh I would've thought they'd have a lead on this - don't know what the polling is.

Probably more important that Labour keep supporting the strikes even if the public turns against the junior doctors.

If public opinion turns then it doesn't matter at all whether or not Labour supports them, because it's then irrelevant to everything other than the state of the Labour Party.

FWIW I don't think public opinion will turn unless there's a major increase in strike activity, which doctors would be very reluctant to do - and of course Hunt knows that.

Its relevant if you want the Labour Party to be in a better state to tackle problems of inequality, housing and all sorts of crisis. We need a party that can speak to that when the thing crashes. Backing this and other strikes is important, it re-orientation from where they were.

Hunt is pushing doctors to strike further. They are v reluctant to strike at all (the last one was cancelled off at the last min) and have been considerably pushed.

Yeah I dispute whether backing a doctor's strike during a theoretical turn in public opinion would make much difference to the rest of that, most of the public wouldn't be inclined to group these issues together at all.

Individual Labour members (including Michael Foot iirc) have appeared alongside strikers, and they may have offered tacit endorsement/not outright condemned strikes before, but I'm not sure the Labour Party has any real history of actively supporting strikes.

In fact I think this might be the first strike that Labour has explicitly endorsed?

I think backing strikes will entrench a set of attitudes in the rest of the party - its one of a many number of things they have to do, but it counts.

In fact I think this might be the first strike that Labour has explicitly endorsed?

article on that subject here: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/02/ns-podcast-135-trident-tories-and-tough-love

(I don't know why the url says that, but it is the right link)

wait, no it isn't, aargh http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/01/junior-doctors-strike-first-strike-ever-be-supported-labour-party

this cunt http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/12/jeremy-corbyn-no-senator-bernie-sanders-democrats

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/israel-boycott-local-councils-public-bodies-and-student-unions-to-be-banned-from-shunning-israeli-a6874006.html

Story as per URL basically - hard to imagine that these days this won't blow up in their faces, google searches for 'Isreali boycotts' surely about to start rising sharply.

... which Google will helpfully response to with 'do you mean "Israeli boycott"?'

I'd be surprised by the govt's audacity with this and the lobbying/gagging bill if there wasn't such a feeble media/sense of public opposition

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/israel-boycott-local-councils-public-bodies-and-student-unions-to-be-banned-from-shunning-israeli-a6874006.html

oh xp

Interesting that the Israeli angle is being made so much of in coverage of the proposed legislation - it would also cover refusal to work with an arms company, refusal to let G4S handle community service, etc

I thought these fuckers were all about consumer choice?

That there is an interesting one - there's so many contradictions between what they say and what they do - likewise 'small government' but you know let's go hardcore on policing, 'cut taxes' haha unless you're poor and you've got a spare bedroom - 'for hardworkingpeople/rewarding merit' but let's allow private schools and oldboy networks to wallow around doing what they want

But I'm always surprised, always - perhaps 'we' get too absorbed in arguing with what they say they believe in, perhaps that's just as planned. People calling themselves 'hard working' has already lost any substance and become just an obvious ideological mantra (or seems so to me?), perhaps all the rest of it will shake loose in the next few months/years

Donkeys are hard working, fuck that. You talk as if you're surprised to discover Tories have no scruples. Fuck it, I'm too old for this.

OMG @ whoever decided to put George Galloway in front of the Grassroots Out campaign, 90% (at least) full of Tories and UKIP members. Reportedly they had to close the doors to stop people leaving.

How many hours did it take for EU leaders to cobble together this deal to keep David Cameron in office? What a farce.

Goldsmith is unsurprisingly in favour of leaving the EU which should probably tank his chances of being mayor.

https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/story/zac-goldsmith-back-leaving-eu

The news coverage is going to be increasingly unbearable between now and the referendum. More and more shrill and borderline (and not so borderline) psychotic conservative politicians on tv and social media.

I have a feeling this could end up being so divisive and bitter for the Conservative Party that there'll be a clusterfuck of a leadership election that'll end with someone like Michael Gove winning, Major-style, because no one can be bothered to build a coalition against him.

Increasingly convinced that anyone vocally on the In side doesn't stand a chance of being the next Tory leader.

If that is true (not sure it is) then that would definitely make Boris' mind up for him.

The massive intellect that is IDS weighs in.

Boris is maybe the exception, he can do what he wants and get away with it with the public at least.

OTOH campaigning on the opposite side to Cameron might be seen as a brazenly disloyal leadership play by Tory MPs, and that has the potential to be more damaging. Obviously Tories are fine with disloyalty when it suits them but most of them just don't seem to like Boris that much.

Cameron clearly fears the idea of Boris campaigning on the Out side in way he doesn't with, say, Gove. Wonder if Boris would be prepared to trade his loyalty for, say, a Cabinet job.

Maybe there are corners of blue England where Gove is a towering political figure and I just don't know about it, but if he remain the representative of the Out campaign that's on all the front pages between now and June then surely they are doomed?

Boris is out (according to the BBC)

I'm guessing the answer is 'no', but are there any ilxors who intend to vote leave? I wonder if Corbyn would be campaigning for brexit alongside Dennis Skinner and Kelvin Hopkins if he hadn't been elected leader.

i'm minded to vote leave at the moment

Will either not vote or vote leave. To be honest the only thing preventing a leave vote is my distaste for some of the people I'd be voting alongside (NV excepted of course)

yeah it will involve some very unpleasant bedfellows but i feel like the leftist argument to leave is pretty strong

Owen Hatherley otm that whatever qualms people have about the EU as a project, the concrete repercussions of leaving will be deportations, worse employment laws, the restriction of human rights, etc, etc.

the EU isn't the ECHR and the referendum won't involve leaving the latter

and seeing either as a check on the worst excesses of a Tory government feels unlikely to me

The only reason the Tories haven't pressed for leaving the ECHR is that membership of the EU effectively requires it, even if they are distinct institutions. They have mooted it enough times to view it as entirely plausible if not inevitable. The UK is also currently bound by separate EU human rights legislation.