Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

as someone who was seemingly a long-term subscriber to white supremacist fanzines he probably wasn't exactly relying on twitter to help form his opinions

Perhaps. Excrutiating to watch.

England just had a political murder/hate crime. A member of parliament was butchered in broad daylight, possibly because of her conviction or beliefs. It echoed the one we've had this century. We've had thousands of people protesting on the night it happened, mayors taking the stage, speaking to the masses in shock. Not that that was right, there's no right or wrong here, but it strikes me as bizarre to see no real massi reaction or denouncement of that today in the uk. And Newsnight focuses solely on that vile social media. Ok...

it strikes me as bizarre to see no real massi reaction or denouncement of that today in the uk

Are you in the UK? Just asking because there's been plenty of denouncing and reacting going on.

Not in the UK at present no, lived there for years though. Perhaps just affected severely by today's events, and aghast.

Still think Newsnight got it all wrong tonight, and I'm trying to figure out why. Ah well.

In case anyone argues this wasn't political:

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/16/alleged-killer-british-mp-was-longtime-supporter-neo-nazi-national-alliance

The SPLC has records of his support of the Neo-Nazi U.S. group the National Alliance and an invoice for a manual on how to make a gun.

the national alliance make no bones about being straight-up unreconstructed nazis - "the foremost organization working for the interests of men and women of European descent worldwide" - oh that's nice, pet

The mention of 'social media' presumably worked up because someone somewhere has realised they can use this to do more Prevent stuff, monitoring people's conversations, convicting people for what they post etc

About spectator commenters - they're fucking vile. The way they queued up to have a go at that piece, absolutely refusing to accept any bit of connection between Leave campaign shouting and this

Have they closed the comments? I can't see any but wondered it it was a platform thing.

Britain first's actual statement was that "this kind of behaviour we do not condone."

"This kind of behaviour"

"DO NOT CONDONE"

they don't condone murder. They don't condemn it, they just don't condone it.

Feeling crazy here. Apologies.

Yes, comments were taken down on the Spectator piece. Britain First are sticking to the line that the (several) people who heard him shouting during the attack and while being arrested are lying. Lots of people on the far right are still claiming it was not targeted violence and she just intervened in an altercation on the street. Just an unfortunate coincidence he had a history of supporting 'South African patriotism', it was the 40th anniversary of the Soweto uprising, a year since the Dylann Roof shooting commemorating that uprising and the MP who was shot was one of the most vocal advocates of anti-racism and refugee rights.

The Spectator piece in its original format was correct not to limit the blame to Britain First though. Everyone from the Sun to the Guardian is pushing the 'loner with mental health issues' line. Yr man who killed Lee Rigby was a borderline schizophrenic. Whether directed or influenced, extremist propaganda targets the vulnerable.

It's not party political - all parties have chipped in to the climate that saw an 18% rise in hate crimes last year - but looking at some of the Leave messaging recently, even before the new poster Goebbel's estate could sue for copyright infringement on - vote Remain and get ISIS, vote Remain and share a border with Syria, vote Remain and let in 20m Muslims, vote Remain and have your identity erased, we must take our country back, etc, this doesn't feel all that shocking. It may turn out he had another motive but the feeling that the national environment we creating doesn't make the murder seem completely alien and outlandish is real. We have laws against incitement for a reason and politicians and commentators juuuust skirting round the edge of them need to have a proper look at themselves.

Lots of people on the far right are still claiming it was not targeted violence and she just intervened in an altercation on the street. Just an unfortunate coincidence he had a history of supporting 'South African patriotism', it was the 40th anniversary of the Soweto uprising, a year since the Dylann Roof shooting commemorating that uprising and the MP who was shot was one of the most vocal advocates of anti-racism and refugee rights.

From what I've seen, that's lots of people on the RIGHT not the far right.

Indeed, and given the information coming out about mair, you could view this as just one more act of racially-motivated violence, something we have never been rid of, something that is always bubbling even in the most benign of political climates, let alone in the current fetid hate-swamp

Xp

When "three shit tweets we've managed to find" is good enough for the headline "Labour MP criticised for politicising the shocking murder of Jo Cox"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/17/labour-mp-criticised-for-politicising-the-murder-of-jo-cox

I think it's going to be quite difficult not to politicise the murder of a politician by someone who disagrees with her political views

How the fuck is this not political? This guy is basically Anders Brexit

a pun that ought to catch on tbh

Also - printing the headline 'Labour MP criticised for politicising the shocking murder of Jo Cox' in a right-wing newspaper is politicising the issue!

Maybe not. Looks like complaining about politicization is, uh, politicization to me. (XP!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Of course, if the murderer had been an immigrant, the Leave side would still be maintaining a dignified silence ...

('maybe not' refers to the pun. too soon to pun?)

Leave campaign = stoking the fires of racism, but fortunately the PLP and their Cameronite bros have been more than ready to counter that thru repeatedly moaning about the need to address working class people's "very real concerns" about immigration rather than deviate from their own Neolib economic orthodoxy. Inasmuch as heightened racial tensions led to this there are a lot of parliamentarians with dirty hands who should be thinking hard before they open their mouths in future but hey no the game's still afoot.

'Politicise' in this instance means 'draw conclusions we don't like'. If there's one thing politicians don't like it's confronting the social consequences of their own economic policies.

It'd be interesting to compare and contrast with the Telegraph/Spectator's coverage of the Lee Rigby murder but also frankly too depressing to bother.

This tweet seemed apposite: https://twitter.com/Mendelpol/status/743713966954668032

We never questioned people speaking on telephones to each other having a poisonous effect on society did we?

Actually we totally did

"nothing to see here just a lone nutter" is so infuriating on so many levels

I was in a little bubble yesterday painting the hallway and kind of switched off from the full scope of what happened, and now I'm sitting at my desk taking this all in and I just want to cry.

We had an office "afternoon football" thing, I went down for some pizza early on, and intended to go back a bit later for the closing stages.

When I saw the news, I wasn't interested in the football anymore. God knows how people must have felt having had the jumping up and down at the last goal and the final whistle, and come out to find all this had happened.

there's always concern about new media because it does have a big effect on how people think, and short term losses are more visible than possible long term gains. even in classical times there was concern about the effect literacy had on people's memory

the remain campaign has been awful, no positive case made, no engagement with the main opposition arguments, endless scaremongering, it has clearly distanced a lot of people and there seems to be a lot of genuine confusion and surprise that this has been the outcome, which is the most damning bit of it all

"the politics of failure have failed!"

Engaging with immigration is still seen as massively dangerous for the left, even (especially) when pointing out that it's a benefit to the nation.

If Leave win, there should be a statue of Gillian Duffy in Trafalgar Square by next Sunday.

Leave campaign = stoking the fires of racism, but fortunately the PLP and their Cameronite bros have been more than ready to counter that thru repeatedly moaning about the need to address working class people's "very real concerns" about immigration rather than deviate from their own Neolib economic orthodoxy. Inasmuch as heightened racial tensions led to this there are a lot of parliamentarians with dirty hands who should be thinking hard before they open their mouths in future but hey no the game's still afoot.

^^^ This. It's also apparent that at some point, possibly around 2010, politicians stopped viewing bigotry as something to be argued against and became something to be tiptoed around or pandered to for fear of looking remote, or too London, or just not listening enough. Meanwhile the employment and housing problems that ferment this kind of resentment are allowed to get worse and worse, because, y'know, The Market.

Gillian Duffy is usually seen as a turning point but it was happening under Blair too. Blunkett made a fairly solid media career on the back of it.

I often wonder what the outcome would have been if Brown had just said, "I called her a bigot because she is a bigot. And we all need to learn from her bigotry", or something, rather than what went down.

the visceral hatred of politicians which has gradually built up can feel explosive, and feeds the deep streak of reactive chippiness that's been brought out by all the stern calls to economic seriousness and prophecies of doom. people sufficiently incensed and indignant that they’re ready to harm themselves to show how tough they are

Oh God, did you have to remind me of that incident. My whole being is cringing just thinking about it. (xp)

If Leave win, there should be a statue of Gillian Duffy in Trafalgar Square by next Sunday.

They'll be floating a Farage one down the Thames like the statue of Jacko.

Grant Shapps has said that as a mark of respect the by-election to fill Cox's seat should be uncontested, which seems odd? was reminded today that the Lib Dems actually won the by-election that followed Ian Gow's murder.

Labour held Tooting which I pessimistically wasn't expecting - something at least.

daily politics is showing footage of the announcement at the tooting by-election, obviously a sombre atmosphere, monster raving loony candidate looks a bit out of place

Shouldn't even be a by-election imo. Labour won the seat and this berk shouldn't be allowed to change that

Daily Mail reporting that the Tories will not contest the by-election.

Confirmed.

fucking hell, the mental gymnastics I'm seeing from Brexiters who are desperate to argue that it's nothing to do with anything remotely right-wing. Literally on my facebook: "we could have just as easily had a situation where a deranged socialist shot a tory"
Yes, I can imagine lots of imaginary things too, but those didn't happen and this did
FFS I give up

every mention of 'mentally ill' should probably come with a reminder about the Tories' 'contribution' to the funding of mental health services and contributing factors btw

"we could have just as easily had a situation where a deranged socialist shot a tory"

http://www.newsbiscuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/david-cameron-hoodie-yob-gun-hand-sign-shooting-culture.jpg

was reminded today that the Lib Dems actually won the by-election that followed Ian Gow's murder.

Sounds like the Lib Dems tbh!

daily politics is showing footage of the announcement at the tooting by-election, obviously a sombre atmosphere, monster raving loony candidate looks a bit out of place

― soref, Friday, 17 June 2016 11:34 (48 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The Radio 1 news this morning said she didn't do a victory speech.

Which is somewhat inaccurate, she did make a speech which was a tribute. She didn't just say nothing..