Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

I was surprised by that Mail on Sunday decision, perhaps it's because Geordie Grieg just wants the British right to become a place where everyone just goes to parties all the time and has to deal with Dacre thundering away next door.

Which way is the Telegraph declaring?

I'm assuming the FT is firmly in the Remain camp.

The Economist is firmly Remain, though that is not surprising:

saw a Leave:EU poster at Vauxhall last night that was quite obviously patterned after The Economist's ads, and grasping for The Economist's gravitas.

Which way is the Telegraph declaring?

Can see them going Remain with concomitant spluttering into G & Ts in golf club bars the length and breadth of the country.

Corbyn v good on Marr - immigrants do not put pressure on services, but govt under-funding. A late corrective on politicians who 'understand people's concerns'. Also good on looking at the issue of exploitative wages imposed on newly arrived migrants.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3648681/THE-MAIL-SUNDAY-COMMENT-Vote-Remain-safer-freer-prosperous-yes-GREATER-Britain.html

Not quite sure how the Mail on Sunday has the cheek to print the words "Those who would have you believe in the plucky Little England of the past are selling a dangerous illusion" in its editorial, but still.

In town today, lots of Remain campaigners, absolutely no Brexiters at all.

xp MoS has a different editor than the DM - they don't get on and often they work against each other. Private Eye have been covering it for ages.
MoS ran a story about Neo Nazis in the Leave camp a few weeks ago.

Best part of that article is the comments - full of outraged DM readers vowing to cancel their subscriptions.

I know, but "plucky England of the past" is hardly a stranger to the pages of the MoS.

That bit seems incongruous, but then the whole thing is given it's the Mail. The whole thing is all across the press. The Sunday Telegraph has come out for Brexit, but the first thing you see when you click on the site is a piece about Osborne comparing Farage's poster Nazi propaganda.

Speaking of the Telegraph, they've run a piece on the British character that contains this:

What struck me from the beginning was a quality that requires rather a lot of adjectives: calm, rational, tolerant, grown up, undaunted, and quietly brave.

I have seen that subtle virtue in play many times over a lifetime here. Under the truly terrifying wave of IRA bombings, when virtually nobody flinched or even altered their daily habits and when, most movingly, the population evinced almost no trace of anti-Irish prejudice. (A fashion for fairly benign Irish jokes was as far as it got.) I saw it again after the 7/7 terror bombings, when the population grieved but did not panic, and again manifested almost no hostility to the British Muslim community. So I now have a very firm idea of what the British are like – and they are not going to be bullied or frightened like silly children.

Live from a living room...

Benign Irish jokes = not actually about the IRA or bombs, etc.

yeah i know some English people i call bullshit

It's Janet Daley, turning her acute "outsider's eye" to British culture.

i accept it's entirely possible Janet Daley has mingled with a different sample group to me

almost no hostility to the British Muslim community

http://static.radicalisationresearch.org/wp-content/uploads//2015/11/UK-tabloid-islamophobia.jpg

i accept it's entirely possible Janet Daley has mingled with a different sample group to me

She lives on a different planet to most of us.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/sadiq-khan-britain-first-london-mayor-threaten-direct-action-a7047991.html

The far-right group Britain First has threatened to target where Sadiq Khan “lives, works and prays” as part of their apparent organised action against British Muslim politicians.

In a press release, the “loyalist” group claim they specialise in direct action which they will use against Mr Khan

can we just call them a terrorist group and be done, or does this set a dangerous precedent

> In town today, lots of Remain campaigners, absolutely no Brexiters at all.

A dozen remainers in w12 that I saw, at least two of which were being earholed by Leavers.

http://crookedtimber.org/2016/06/17/making-our-peace/

very good, even at the points where i disagree

Baroness Warsi out of the Leave campaign now. I'm not a big fan but I appreciate that as the highest profile minority in the Tory party, she probably has to make a call a dozen times a day regarding "What course of action will further my aim/goals while also facilitating the least racism and exposing myself to the least racism?" (while the highest profile minority in the Labour party - probably Sadiq Khan? - would only have to do this two or three times a day). And as such my understanding is that the actual point of saying "no we've crossed a line" can come some time after the line has actually been crossed.

All that taken, there are probably 20 better ways for the Guardian to express this than "although some question her commitment to campaign".

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/20/sayeeda-warsi-quits-leave-campaign-over-hateful-xenophobic-tactics

EXCELLENT shade in "Speaking earlier of the leave campaign, she told the Times: 'I look at that group of people and I think they’re not the kind of people I’d get on a night bus with. Why would I want them to run my country?'" though.

https://twitter.com/econbuttonwood/status/744787791758819329

Yeah I think Gove would relish the chance to restart the troubles

iirc there are sensible arguments against some of the details of the Good Friday Agreement (which was an amazing and impossible-seeming enough achievement that it was probably worth it)...

...but that certainly wasn't one of them

his pea-brained imperialist jingoism was all over the changes to the History syllabus when he was Education sec

What's the polling looking like in Northern Ireland? Is it overwhelmingly Remain or is there a substantial Protestant Leave contingent?

The Belfast Telegraph had an article about poll results this morning: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/eu-referendum/eu-referendum-growing-support-in-northern-ireland-for-brexit-but-balance-of-power-lies-with-the-undecided-34815075.html

which is slightly confusingly laid out, so: Remain still in the lead in NI but Protestants somewhat pro-Leave (iirc the DUP are for leaving and the UUP for remaining), with higher %s undecided than in recent all-UK polls; 37% are still undecided and about the same for Remain

37% undecided is pretty fucking high.

Not like the Norn Irish not to know their own minds :)

the ones i know are pretty forthright in their views oh wait is that the joke damn damn that's the joke isn't it damn damn

Nothing happened for two days? Blimey.

I believe Rick Astley (remain) and Ulrika Jonsson (leave) competed for the vote of Clarke Carlisle (undecided) on Channel 4.

The leave campaign appears to have taken £600k from a woman who claims she joined the BNP accidentally and one of their board members has resigned after retweeting racist memes.

The dignified silence seems entirely justified.

I've just realised I haven't had a polling card and am a bit worried. Has everyone else had one?

(I know you don't need one to vote but I hope it doesn't mean I'm not registered - I was registered for the police commissioner elections in May but re-registered online "just in case" after they extended the registration date, so it would be typical if I had typed my details wrong and got myself removed from the register or something)

Nothing happened for two days? Blimey.

fatigue.

xpost : my polling card arrived months ago.

don't think I've had a card, am definitely on register, maybe they aren't sending them out or they look like the advertising crap I keep getting and I've ignored it or it arrived months ago like mark e said

xposts - If you were registered for the police commissioner elections in May you'll be fine, you only need to register once don't you?

oh er... having arrived months ago would definitely defeat my non-existent filing system, yes. ta!

(ahem)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cli2TCdVAAE1_W7.jpg

This is how I feel, basically.

reasonable points, think he's gonna get his worst case scenario tho

whatever the outcome, its going to be nasty.

everything's nasty without full communism

lol.

I think it'll be WCS too.

Yes, though i don't think a majority of 55%+ would change anything.

Even if the UK leaves, idk if you're going to get full speed ahead on further integration given the current situations in Poland and the wider Visegrad group, France, Italy, Spain, etc.

Implications for us of a brexit are much more wide-ranging and longer lasting and if FG were in full govt i think we'd be getting much more jumpy.

Hmmm, don't think moves toward closer integration are happening any time soon, for reasons that go beyond the British situation, like Sharivari says. Also saying greece is opposed to integration feels like a category error. It's more that Greece has had the lesson driven home harder than anyone else that integration is a sham when the chips are down.

Ruth Davison seemed impressive in the bits I say of the debate. Still a Tory, obv.

Work has kicked-off into Breixt comms nonsense.