Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

the factuality of Britain exiting the EU could be any of a number of things because nobody knows how it would pan out and everybody who claims to is a liar but symbolically it will be a "fuck off" and practically i don't want to feel even notionally responsible for anything that amounts to repatriation

Is there a good explanation of which areas the UK would be able to "take back" control over if they went for a Norway-like/EEA status?

If out does end up meaning completely out, I wouldn't be surprised if some categories of already-resident EU nationals were forced to apply for permission to stay. The Tories do love a points system, it would be a shame not to use it.

on the other hand there's a few more hours for me to react badly to getting hectored by middle class liberals so who knows

:(

not a jab at anybody here in case that wasn't clear, just the whole stinking tone of this thing

"reacting badly" probably behind 99% of votes [either way] I expect

i've got an EEA-4 that lasts til 2022 so i figure they can't exactly "cancel" that? even if i took off to live in hawaii for a year? (mmmm hawaii)

Wow that does sound really annoying how did u cope

― Daithi Bowsie (darraghmac), Wednesday, June 22, 2016 3:32 PM (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

rough times, darragh. rough times.

anyone watching this circus on c4

Can't bring myself to do so, I know how I'm voting and it'll just upset me.

a host of guests including Admiral Lord West, Alan Johnson MP, Alastair Campbell, Alex Salmond MP, Professor Germaine Greer, June Sarpong, Katy Brand, Lee McQueen, Leslie Ash and Lord Heseltine

jesus fucking christ no

Anyone currently living here would probably be ok whatever happens

― On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Wednesday, 22 June 2016 21:34 (16 minutes ago)

there's no reason to be sanguine about this given that 75% of current eu immigrants would not qualify under the general criteria and most of those are from post-2004 accession countries. quite how a paranoid political movement that had derived its success from resentment of eastern europeans would tolerate their continued presence is unclear.

Right. If there is a clear Brexit majority it will be hard to dispute that there is a mandate to "do something".

(xxxp) Lee McQueen is dead... surely?

LOL, it's not Alexander McQueen, it's some Apprentice guy.

lee rigby and steve mcqueen (the actor) are dead
idk who lee mcqueen is but if he was alive when that press release was written then he probably is not dead now

Don't know, it's been a tough campaign.

toss-up for most pointless contribution is currently between wetherspoons dude, katie price, and a lady I don't recognise whose argument for Leave is genuinely 'but what about the baby lambs'

sandy shaw is not really helping things

Were you thinking of a smiths album perhaps?

Xp maybe

NV, fwiw, I am taken by how you came to a decision today (if it holds). It's a personal, humane choice. Basing a decision on yer gut feeling has gotten a bad rep it seems in this whole sordid Brexit affair. How emotions shouldn't override 'facts'. Truth is no one knows how either outcome will play out. Given that uncertainty, and the fact that the harsh noise of pundits, politicians and experts - from both camps - are only making things worse, I don't envy any British citizen tomorrow. Feels to me like voters are set adrift on a sea of uncertainty and then asked: well, how are you going to safe yourself? How are you going to make the 'right' decision? You're on your own. Everyone is. 'Weighing' pros and cons in this seems like such a draining exercise. Not trying to sound like an old hippy, but you can only vote going by the heart, which is what you seem to do.

there's no reason to be sanguine about this given that 75% of current eu immigrants would not qualify under the general criteria and most of those are from post-2004 accession countries. quite how a paranoid political movement that had derived its success from resentment of eastern europeans would tolerate their continued presence is unclear.

Yes, there's definitely a question mark over the legal aspects though the official leave campaign has repeatedly stated that they'd be safe. It would require a huge, but not completely unthinkable, volte-face. It could also mean UK citizens in the rest of the EU losing their rights if we followed that path though. Someone needs to do the jobs that the 75% are currently doing, ultimately. I can't see liberalising non-EU migration being bumped up the agenda.

The right to remain in the UK could potentially stay but access to certain public services, the same university fees as 'domestic' students, etc, might be at risk.

Also, mandatory English skills, etc.

thought the raf behr article in the guardian today was uncharacteristically good. only winced like two three times

Chuka was on R4 earlier for remain and he had a very good rapport with IDS, maybe a male pattern baldness thing - but they made a nauseating duo. Listening to these contemptible shits going through the motions is more evidence to make you want both sides to feel defeated tomorrow. IDS nearly had a follow through when Chuka used the football metaphor about him wanting "our star striker" Corbyn to score some goals.

I am voting remain, mostly on a vague anti-Tory/right wing reflex, which is ridiculous when you think how many Tories in both parties are remain. But when all you can see is decades of Tory rule ahead it is hard to envisage any vote you make having a positive impact, just maybe slowing down this juggernaut slightly.

there wouldn't need to be any volte face because the official leave campaign is redundant in 24 hours and has no autonomous existence. whoever comes next is not bound to honour that any more than all the other unfulfillable or meaningless promises made during this campagin will be honoured. maybe dominic cummings will personally let 15 latvians live in his shed during the expatriation proceeedings as an expression of solidarity, assuming they didn't already lose their jobs during the 3% fall of gdp that andrew lilico considers an acceptable price for uk independence.

how did this gobshite get on the telly
[it's Toby Young, I'm switching off]

If remain wins, what happens to b johnson?

Fuck an EU, but I'm still voting Remain for reasons that are roughly congruent with NV and calzino's

Johnson secures the hearts of the bumpkin wing of the party without having to do any actual work until Cameron steps down, which i assume has always been the plan

If remain wins, what happens to b johnson?
― coygbiv (NickB), Wednesday, June 22, 2016 9:25 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

next prime minister innit

Christ, how do we kill off that gobshite?

john barnes otm, though i can get behind the leave campaign tactic of naming random celebrities and saying they're going to vote leave

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/22/john-barnes-gove-says-voting-leave-wrong?CMP=share_btn_tw

xp nah Johnson is a busted flush if remain win tomorrow

Theresa May, next PM.

http://machotrouts.tumblr.com/post/146007685930/remaindr

xp nah Johnson is a busted flush if remain win tomorrow

seriously doubt it, losing will not be pinned on him

there is a greater chance that johnson would become prime minister after a remain vote than there would have been had he supported a successful remain campaign. this was his rationale for pretending to be opposed to the european union. the people who follow this nonsense generally aver that if johnson gets on the final ballot then the party membership will elect him, but his appeal to them would have collapsed as soon as he supported cameron. getting him on the ballot might not be any harder either, there seems to be a fair amount of support for him in the parliamentary party.

loooooool caek, finally a debate i can get behind

nakh otm. only thing standing betw boris and PM is gove (whose approval rating w.the base is currently higher) but a. he doesn't want it & b. he's smart enough to know he's not a big_tent_politician

3 Too horny to engage politically

mainstream pollsters going wrong by failing to incorporate these figures

idk how smart Gove is tbh but i think the biggest issue Johnson has is that he might be seen as Cameron 2.0 even if he has backed leaving the EU. He's 'socially liberal', market-focused and pro-immigration however much he has tried to hide it recently. I think an ideologue like Raab could pose a challenge with the base.

Or Hannan. They seem to love Hannan.

there is not a great chance raab and johnson could both get on the ballot because they will split the eurosceptic vote. some sort of holdover candidate, osborne or may, or maybe javid vs johnson or one of the brittania unchained lot is more likely.

prithi patel loves executions too which is always good. raab is supposed to have a martial arts background but he looks a bit too libertarian to really understand how important it is for rapists, murderers and paedophiles to be executed.

if a leave vote then cameron is gone in months and raab et al are probably considered too green by the parliamentary party. possible though! exciting times anyway.

Or Hannan. They seem to love Hannan.

No chance.

Javid and Patel probably don't stand that much of a chance for reasons that don't need elaborating on. I think Raab is the most likely of the Britannia Unchained cru to edge Johnson out tbh. Might be green but these are the people who voted for Hague. Raab projects an evil cyborg competence and is a true believer.

idk how up for it Osborne would be if the UK leaves and he's left dealing with the economic fallout.

I think May's star has been on the wane for a while but could definitely see her making a ballot.

Cue the UK staying in the EU and 11 more years of Cameron...

raab is jewish though. and it's not clear how much racism really matters at that level; hatred of mass immigration and approval of selected individuals are commonly found together in the sort of decrepit stockbroker belt types who will be voting. few are likely to conclusively rule out on the grounds of race, and javid got plenty of support in a conservative home poll.