Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

leave now favourite at the bookies

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 24 June 2016 01:07 (9 hours ago) Permalink

the betting markets have gone to leave (narrow) favourites for first time

― rap game lee rigby (nakhchivan), Friday, 24 June 2016 01:08 (9 hours ago) Permalink

lol

Don't feel quite as gut-punched as after the general last year, although that is partly because I foresaw this happening as a result of the tory majority, so a lot of my grieving process, as it were, has already been gone through as part of that.

It just feels like there's an infinity of Kettering shittowns in England, there's no way for remain

― woof, Friday, June 24, 2016 1:12 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this

Too much real England.

This also

Louisa Compton Verified account
‏@louisa_compton

With leave voters in Manchester for BBCNews -most told us they woke up thinking "what have I done?" & didn't actually expect the uk to leave

They'll soon find out they were wrong when the recession hits

eh it'll still be the foreigners' fault, or Gordon Brown's fault, or Cameron's fault, or anyone's fault except Brexit, and even if there is a sudden public volte-face I don't see it being organised into a "Return" movement/vote, or the EU taking us back in a hurry after all this fannying about

(unless there really is a mass EU collapse and several other countries leave/push for renegotiation, and even then, why take the country that kicked it all off?)

but I am quite politically ignorant and shortsighted and I would like to believe, so... maybe

can someone explain if we don't invoke art. 50, but eu say no trade negotiations until art. 50 process complete, under what terms trade is conducted until then?

current terms? it would be hard to see how else.

xp EU leaders are saying that the UK should get on with Article 50 asap. The only way we could back out of leaving the EU would be for the EU to be so disunited that it would probably break up anyway.

Like if France and Italy both called referendums in the next 12 months and both voted to leave.

sorry for melodramatic middle-class handwringing and such but I feel remarkably awful this morning, not just mentally but achy all over like I fell downstairs. filing under "probably psychosomatic"

(or just tired, tho I didn't deliberately stay up, but couldn't sleep and so watched results come in from 1-3 and then turned everything off again and tried to tell myself it might still be OK when Glasgow/Lambeth/Wandsworth came in Remain all at once. thanks to all who were posting then, my phone wouldn't let me log in and I had nothing to say but I was glad of this thread)

in other news, my passport needs renewing and I am going away in August; I assume they're not going to redesign a new EU-less passport in a hurry, but idly wondering when and what the changeover will be (a fairly small deal out of all the many big deals becoming apparent, but also I am kicking myself for not having renewed it already, in case this holds it up)

Johnson obv wants to renegotiate, there will be pressure to reform from within the EU as well but they've been good at resisting that lately, I suppose it comes down to how scared they are

its not even about the EU. its just about wanting something different. *anything*. for most people who voted leave, life wont be that different. im not sure it will even be that different for me. i wont feel the immediate effect. but the fact is most people who voted for farrage and that mendacious cunt boris might genuinely believe in their awful politics. or they might not, they might just see them as something, ANYthing different (even if it doesnt make sense - how do people think boris will be diff to osbourne, cameron and co?) to the twats like niall ferguson on newsnight the other day, talking about how everything is great and the country is riding a wave of great fortune right now.

whatever you feel about him, blair is actually right here -
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-result-live-counting-leave-remain-brain-in-europe?page=with:block-576cfd31e4b0f43038109948#block-576cfd31e4b0f43038109948

the main things that worry me now are who will lead the tories (would still prefer cameron to boris), and the dissapointing limpness of labour and corbyn. their defence of remain was weak as anything. do they have anything to offer? because from the looks of it, there is nothing positive on offer really. its either duplicitous, falsehoods from UKIP and the tories, or a labour party who offer an alternative, but not one with any coherent concepts, structure or mechanisms to make it clear to anyone.

personally, im not sure i care that much about this economically (though im sure i will end up feeling it at some point), but more in the general tone of discourse in modern england. i feel like we have gone back to the 70s and 80s.

Leadsom 4th-favourite (behind the usual cunts) for next Tory leader on OddsChecker, but they can't be arsed to get her name right. Think I swore at her this morning almost as much as Farage.

Looking into my Irish roots. (By "looking into" I mean posturing on FB and wondering if anyone who might conceivably have my maternal GF's birth certificate is still alive).

sorry, i was xposting someone else.

http://pitchfork.com/news/66322-noel-gallagher-on-brexit-vote-99-percent-of-the-people-are-thick-as-pig-shit/

Today, the UK is voting on a historic referendum that will decide if Britain will leave the European Union. Musicians and industry figures have been speaking out on the “Brexit” vote, largely voicing their support for staying in the EU. The latest artist to speak out: Noel Gallagher, who told the CBC yesterday that he wasn’t even sure if he was going to vote. “I’ll decide to vote on the morning,” he said. “I might be busy.” Gallagher’s apathy stems from his believe that there shouldn’t even be a referendum on the Brexit. He would rather leave those big decisions to the politicians, who “didn’t fucking ask us for a referendum when they were going off to war, did they?” Said Gallagher:

I see politicians on TV every night telling us that this is a fucking momentous decision that could fucking change Britain forever and blah, blah, blah. It’s like, okay, why don’t you fucking do what we pay you to do which is run the fucking country and make your fucking mind up....What are you asking the people for? 99 percent of the people are thick as pig shit.

is osborne completely ruled out of a run at the leadership due to being associated with remain? or just cos of being a cunt?

More to do with his close association with Cameron.

(being a cunt never disqualified anyone from being a candidate for the Tory leadership AFAIK)

Looking into my Irish roots. (By "looking into" I mean posturing on FB and wondering if anyone who might conceivably have my maternal GF's birth certificate is still alive).

― Michael Jones

Exbrit

XP I think Osborne blew any slim chance he had with his emergency budget scare tactic

I think the threat of the brexit budget did for him, also he is a cunt.

> Noel Gallagher, who told the CBC yesterday... “didn’t fucking ask us for a referendum when they were going off to war, did they?”

i read that as CBBC...

think it's the latter. he's not well like within the conservative party + part of cameron project and hasn't distanced himself like johnson xp

xp Fearne Cotton and Reggie Yates masterminded the invasion of Iraq.

Vine claims that Sturgeon has contacted Sadiq Khan to explore possibility that Scotland and London can somehow opt out

if blair was still in power he would have consulted noel first before holding a referendum

"Vine claims that Sturgeon has contacted Sadiq Khan to explore possibility that Scotland and London can somehow opt out"

as if!

I also be communicated over the weekend with each EU member state to make clear that Scotland has voted to stay in the EU and I intend to discussion all options for doing so.

I have also spoken this morning with (London) mayor Sadiq Khan and he is clear that he shares this objective for London, so there is clear common cause between us.

Looking forward to London becoming a West Berlin-esque Scottish exclave.

i think a lot of lefties hating corbyn right now is half deserved, half really unfair. def didnt step up to the mark like he should have. not sure he could have stopped the brexit juggernaut due to the feeling in the country right now. but they def didnt mobilise their supporters like they should have. where i work in west london, i only saw leaflets being handed out in the last week or so (though maybe in the wrong area - this place voted heavily in favour of remain, good to cement that, but they needed to convert people in other areas, which i feel like they failed to do - lots of BME voters that maybe they just didnt do enough to attract and interest).

He was so awful this morning I realised that he just can't speak for me.

he speaks like he does not give enough of a shit. i think that could be his undoing. leader with his heart where it needs to be, but oddly, almost deliberately, refusing to really sound like it.

Knives already starting to come out ..

Labour MPs Margaret Hodge and Ann Coffey have sent a letter to John Cryer, chair of the parliamentary Labour party, submitting the motion.

^^ That's a motion of no confidence in Corbyn BTW!

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/512/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2016/6/24/42055472-9576-4e4e-bbc3-b0d38d8ccdff.png

excellent, we need a Labour leader who will acknowledge voters' very real concerns about immigration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mARXEQ1X_vQ

The possibility of Boris being PM and Donald being President reminds me of the photo of Thatcher and Reagan in a golf buggy.

Re: Corbyn: He always struck me as a "Reluctant Lottery Winner", the type of bloke that decides he's not giving up his previous occupation.

Hodge is repugnant and has been talked up for months as a possible stalking horse.

xpost - honestly, that IS what labour needs.

problem with the left, the white left, is that they dont know how to talk about immigration, in the same way that the tories dont, but for diff reasons.

lefties dont want to seem racist.
tories dont want to seem pro.

its pathetic. they need to talk about it, but just not with the usual hate-filled spiels. gary younge at the guardian is good on this topic.

what should they say about it? service shortages are not a result of excess immigration but of massive government underspending which most of us supported?

otm. Politicians seem to talk about nothing other than immigration.

Ask questions about job, education, training, housing, infrastructure, health and you'd get 'it's not racist to be concerned about immigration'. It is the no.1 tool for scapegoating failures.

how about "the UK has a duty to accept refugees and asylum seekers especially from a middle east ravaged by post-colonial adventurism?"

"what should they say about it? service shortages are not a result of excess immigration but of massive government underspending which most of us supported?"

yes. exactly that. it needs to be discussed. when you choose not to talk about it, for fear of rhetorical ugliness, it just makes that elephant in the room that much larger.

at this point, im expecting it to be the usual BS in british politics. both parties 'cracking down' on immigration, stoking up fear, while still letting more people settle here, cos someone needs to do those low paying, low status jobs.

"Politicians seem to talk about nothing other than immigration."

but in the stupidest, basest, most dishonest way.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/15/honest-debate-immigration

"Vine claims that Sturgeon has contacted Sadiq Khan to explore possibility that Scotland and London can somehow opt out"

as if!

This morning the Guardian had regional voting results split into

Scotland
Northern Ireland
Wales
London
Rest of England

"Ask questions about job, education, training, housing, infrastructure, health and you'd get 'it's not racist to be concerned about immigration'. It is the no.1 tool for scapegoating failures."

im not in favour of scapegoating.

im in favor of people understanding that services are not being taken away by migrants, but by governments. but if you pretend that immigration ISNT an issue at ALL, then it just makes people angrier.

I think Corbyn, for his faults, has been trying to move in that direction. However, f he says anything remotely positive / realistic about a need for continued migration and a sensible approach to accommodating it a chorus of his own MPs / liberal journalists pops up and says 'well, that won't win back the UKIP vote'.

you see that bit where Younge says "there is no sensible debate on the subject you can have without talking about international trade and development, war, environmental catastrophe and global economic inequalities"? none of the MPs who want to knife Corbyn are interested in that.

they should just split the tories and labour

make four new parties

He got absolutely slated for making pro-immigration noises at the weekend. Clearly he's not the best communicator but it's not an easy argument to make at the moment. xp

Crazy news to wake up to here. Was out to lunch with a friend yesterday who spends a lot of time in Spain for work, and he was noting what this means for Brits scattered and living or working or running businesses throughout the (erstwhile?) EU, it's just going to be chaos. Per the above somewhere, passport/visa issues alone will be nuts, right?