Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

i don't think cat's out of the bag. it might be in terms of bringing up new referenda but eu has an interest in making uk suffer as much as possible so other countries do not think it's a viable solution to their problems.

What's Osborne up to today, having a lie-in?

That's for him to nose.

Is there a good summary somewhere of what kind of exit conditions the EU has the power (and/or will) to impose on the UK?

So there's still a chance that UK and EU never settle on terms, right? So if the EU decides to be like super hardline motherfuckers about this and consistently lays down terms that the UK finds unacceptable, is there a chance that the actual exit never happens?

feel like the smartest thing uk could do is resign the current government, declare the referendum non-binding, and call for new elections

I don't think so. If UK activates the paragraph, they're out in two years. There aren't really anything about 'terms' in there, that's all new deals.

x-post

Also, probably a dumb question, but presumably Parliament is going to have to pass some bills governing the exit procedures and so forth, right? And theoretically the Queen has the power to withhold consent from these bills?

Theoretically yes, I suppose, but the vanishingly miniscule chance that the Queen declines to sign the piece of paper is the least of our worries.

Guys this is happening.

I don't think the Queen is too bothered. After all, she can always move to Germany.

Ha that's what we were just talking about IRL, couldn't the Queen just say REMAIN and override everybody

Lot of American ppl today asking me about weird bits of the U.K. Constitution and I'm like: I know Harry Potter is fun, but this is happening.

You should tell them that the leadership of the Conservative Party is decided by a Quidditch knockout tournament.

If UK doesn't renegotiate anything within the two years from article 50 then it is back to zero. Out of the EU then at the back of the queue to start negotiating.

Like I get all of the ways it's different but Americans who are like 'whatevs' should understand that this isn't that dissimilar from waking up to learn that all of the casual interactions you've had with your neighboring states and taken for granted are now locked down and, unless you're willing to jump through some hoops, you're pretty much stuck where you're at.

tbh if I couldn't easily get to Indiana, Michigan and Kentucky anymore I'd consider it something of a victory

all the articles today about ppl who voted leave but now regret it since it came true, or who voted leave and are now googling EU to figure out what it actually is... like it makes me feel like a lot of this kind of thing is about atomization/individuality pleasure - voting as self-annihilation as an aesthetic enjoyment - a complete abrogation of responsibility to the ppl around you, or even a realization that what you do as an individual might even matter. this shock that the way you vote might actually have consequences.

xpost Yeah, okay, maybe neighboring states shouldn't be the specific focus of that argument.

^^ This is what LGM has been posting about for months re: Bernie-or-busters, voting is not a retail consumer choice, etc. On the one hand it's good to know this phenomenon is not limited to Americans. On the other hand, it's terrifying to realize this phenomenon is not limited to Americans.

xp

it makes me feel like a lot of this kind of thing is about atomization/individuality pleasure - voting as self-annihilation as an aesthetic enjoyment - a complete abrogation of responsibility to the ppl around you, or even a realization that what you do as an individual might even matter freedom!

the freedom to destroy yourself and your country without thinking too much about it first

Jehovah's Witnesses have been round pamphleting, almost like they expect to target a few vulnerable alienated people pondering what the point of it all is

I applaud their unwavering opportunism.

Hello? Donald Trump calling? (xxxp)

been reading articles here and there so not entirely informed but

what happens if the uk cannot fully leave the eu in the allotted time of two years? and when does it start?

If UK doesn't renegotiate anything within the two years from article 50 then it is back to zero. Out of the EU then at the back of the queue to start negotiating.

― Cosmic Slop, Friday, June 24, 2016 8:52 AM (27 minutes ago)

Article 50 isn't triggered until the UK Government notifies the EU -- it's not been automatically set into motion by the referendum itself. Cameron has indicated that he won't be pulling the trigger. There is time for something to happen -- I don't have a lot of love or respect for Cameron, but I bet he's banking on the short-term fall-out from the vote being so awful that the political will to trigger Article 50 will be gone by October. Harry Potter snarkiness or no.

The EU could decide to allow more time or they could force the UK out as soon as two years are up. Conversely, it's not clear that the EU can compel the UK to trigger Article 50. xp

It's clear that they cannot.

nobody anywhere near power in the UK is going to ignore or subvert the result of this referendum

Not today. It'll be a different world in October.

there's really nothing Clintonistas will not stoop to for idiotic analogies

all the articles today about ppl who voted leave but now regret it since it came true

where are some of these? I've only seen anecdotes on twitter. I'm curious how widespread this is.

I do wonder what % of people who voted 'leave' have themselves never left their home country.

boris johnson's "let's not do anything hasty" today sounds a lot to me like he still hopes to stay in having given the eu a nasty fright and paving the way for a like proper nice renegotiation package finally lads that means we're really pulling the strings now

Need a Brexit Thread Revives Thread

where are some of these?

you mean this sort of thing?

https://twitter.com/SimonNRicketts/status/746345810862940160

I do wonder what % of people who voted 'leave' have themselves never left their home county.

― There must be some magic clue inside these gentle walls (Old Lunch), Friday, 24 June 2016 16:28 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Fixed

xpost yes - wondering if there's an article that documents the extent of that phenomenon, whether it's statistically significant or just a few frustrating anecdotes.

x-post to conrad: Yup, and that's also the reason for the EU "let's not dilly-dally" response today -- it's signaling that that won't happen, so don't trigger.

i remember when we had that general election people didn't like the result of so we had a do-over

Article 50 isn't triggered until the UK Government notifies the EU -- it's not been automatically set into motion by the referendum itself. Cameron has indicated that he won't be pulling the trigger. There is time for something to happen -- I don't have a lot of love or respect for Cameron, but I bet he's banking on the short-term fall-out from the vote being so awful that the political will to trigger Article 50 will be gone by October. Harry Potter snarkiness or no.

Cameron has announced he is resigning, so what he's banking on is irrelevant.

I do wonder what % of people who voted 'leave' have themselves never left their home country.

Not many probably, we're a lot closer to the rest of the world over here.

This is still Europe. Happens all the damn time. Happened where I live last month.

Anyway, there's no actual directive in the referendum question. I built-in (I'd say deliberately built-in) get out of jail free card.

x-post: he has announced he is leaving by October, and that he won't be doing any action on the referendum.

from a Channel 4 journalist

‏@AssedBaig
didn't do a survey but have spoken to working class muslims across the country. Some places 60/40 leave

If you've announced you're resigning you don't have the practical political strength, much less the moral mandate, to subvert the will of a referendum.

caek, this is happening isn't it?