Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

in other words I don't see it as perverse or self-hating on the part of the electorate. it's fucking hard to see a way out of it if that's the only language that's used. europe as institution a realky hard sell as well. untanglinh the "faceless bureaucrats" tag is dull as fuck, and has just enough truth for it to be hard to carry conviction. the fact that civil services and complicated legal arrangements are necessary for the running of any sort of state - esp federated states - is never going to be a useful headline.

this is amazing

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/covers/287x361front/2016-06-25.jpg

so is this

http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/CoverStory-BarryBlitt-SillyWalkOffaCliff-875x1200-1466799391.jpg

i dunno, don't really like those Walkers Sensations, too hard

"World's Most Successful Newspaper Crusade Ends In Glorious Victory For Your Daily Express" is equal parts Borat and North Korean propaganda, combined with 'Children of Men' style 'UK stands firm' posturing.

i shot a man in reno just to watch him die

good luck uk

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/06/24/aaliberation-xlarge_trans++_Hs-GDo9an2Vml8A2d7wIO_o1CcHhXARI50Txb6eOA0.jpg

I was angry this morning walking through town. It wasn't difficult to spot the grinning shitcocks who'd voted Leave, acting as though they'd just won the lottery. Which might not be a bad analogy, since most big lottery winners are flat broke again within three years. But I'm feeling bereft now. There's some English victim mentality where we're always thinking of ourselves as the loser, the oppressed, even when things have gone exactly the way we want. All the times the EU made exceptions for the UK, all the special deals and opt-out clauses, seems to have been completely forgotten.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/RWS_Tarot_12_Hanged_Man.jpg

(xp)

Polly LOL for the morning

If Ukip had its fair share of MPs, sunlight would have exposed that quarrelsome ragbag of often nasty eccentrics, just as Hodge saw off Barking’s 12 chaotic BNP councillors. Denying those voters a voice helps explain why those anti-EU, anti-foreigner emotions erupted so disastrously on Thursday.

Hodge, MP for Barking, one of two London constituencies that voted Leave.

Or was it three? Barking and Sutton.

Polly obviously still certain that the Labour party shouldn't have anything to offer those voters

Five. Barking and Dagenham, Bexley, Havering, Hillingdon and Sutton. Not sure Hodge has denied any racists a voice, tbh. xp

I haven't seen any jubilation in my area yet. Everyone seems as miserable as ever.

I haven't seen any triumphalism in my area - i wouldn't be surprised if most of them haven't voted on my road. There are a few george cross flags hanging out of windows as always during the Euros.

Thanks.

Polly talks about Leave winning there as an existential problem. One which hasn't translated to a Leave vote in other boroughs - some of them wrestling with similar problems as Barking. From Polly's account its: let the racists win because they are terrible at the day-to-day job, hence the 12 BNP councillors who were 'seen off' (don't know the whole story but that's what it sounds like).

Well Polly leave have won. Maybe once they fuck it all up we can see them off too. There might be not be much that 'remains'.

That was an xp

Heard a remark on Newsnight that Schäuble et al. wanted to give UK a trade deal that is comparable to Turkey, not Norway. Saw an interview with a cafe owner this morning and it was all 'they won't cut us off'.

But much of the narrative was that we could trade with other continents countries and its a big world so that is that.

only 24 hours ofc & a lot of politics still to go but some scottish unionists (activists & columnists mostly, no politicians understandably) making some interesting noises north of the border this morning

how do you mean?

http://jackofkent.com/2016/06/why-the-article-50-notification-is-important/

This piece feeds into the 'this is happening' exchanges above.

He's been saying that for days if not weeks. Ditto on 'British Bill of Rights'

petition's now hit 1m signatures.
Vaguely wondering what the outcome of a theoretical second referendum today would be. Not sure much would change.

I saw Ian Paisley jr was encouraging anyone who qualified to get dual citizenship if they could yesterday. Not sure the big man would have approved.

Strange days.

that jack of kent piece is exactly what i've been thinking. i can't see a brexit actually happening, and this bit is so so so otm:

The fact is that the longer the Article 50 notification is put off, the greater the chance it will never be made at all. This is because the longer the delay, the more likely it will be that events will intervene or excuses will be contrived.

Haven't heard much from Gove have we? Or I've missed it. Getting an impression that some Brexit politicians are shitting themselves tbh.

michael gove was speaking on a platform yesterday with boris johnson when he said we wouldn't do anything hasty along with their friend gisela stuart

This is not some policy that will not be implemented because its too bureaucratic or difficult to do so. I can see it being triggered unless Boris campaigns in a general election on a platform of 'lets use this to negotiate our position'. But I don't see Brussels as giving enough of a shit to give any concessions, and if they do other countries can set-up their own referendums. Not something that club would allow.

Vaguely wondering what the outcome of a theoretical second referendum today would be. Not sure much would change.

There is a vague sense of 'what have we done' from a small constituency of the Leave voters that has been bought on by Cameron's swift resignation. You can only laugh.

idk, Juncker and Schäuble have pretty much told Britain to get on with it. Cameron didn't want to be the one to push the button so has deferred it for three months so someone else has to. Europe would probably want to keep the UK as part of the EU but not at any cost and not if it means three or four years of uncertainty as the country makes it's mind up whether it's serious or not. I can't see any Tory leader not promising exit from the EU getting elected, any real reason why a second referendum would be politically viable or how it could fail to solidify UKIP as a serious threat to the Conservatives if it came about.

What is clear, though, is that the Leave camp, which isn't exactly formed of the best and brightest to begin with, have absolutely no idea what they are going to do next. The calls to avoid hasty decisions are because they haven't got a strategy beyond 'leave the EU' not necessarily because they are having second thoughts.

I'm seeing a fair number of the IndyRef No lot changing their minds quite vocally. But early days like Cozen says xp

early days indeed but feel fairly positive that the big question mark no placed over scotland's future eu membership was the major deciding factor for at least 12% of no voters

What is clear, though, is that the Leave camp, which isn't exactly formed of the best and brightest to begin with, have absolutely no idea what they are going to do next. The calls to avoid hasty decisions are because they haven't got a strategy beyond 'leave the EU' not necessarily because they are having second thoughts.

and also, "leaving the eu" in actual legal fact seems to be a p wildly protracted political process rather than an action. it is fascinating bureaucracy, if you can put aside the horror.

given a ladder, who's not going to want to climb out of the pool as it slowly fills up with shit? the rest of us will only be able to roll up our trousers and hold our noses

I think there's a load of buyers remorse in England. They are realising all the benefits of Europe they'll lose. They just need a face-saving way of backtracking.

Powell was OTM last night. Need an election, need a party campaigning to stay in or re-run the vote at least.

that jack of kent piece is exactly what i've been thinking. i can't see a brexit actually happening, and this bit is so so so otm:

The fact is that the longer the Article 50 notification is put off, the greater the chance it will never be made at all. This is because the longer the delay, the more likely it will be that events will intervene or excuses will be contrived.

― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Saturday, 25 June 2016 10:56 Bookmark

gonna need a little bit more than "It is not impossible to imagine that"

interesting stats (sorry if already linked)

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/#more-14746

A majority of those working full-time or part-time voted to remain in the EU; most of those not working voted to leave. More than half of those retired on a private pension voted to leave, as did two thirds of those retired on a state pension.

White voters voted to leave the EU by 53% to 47%. Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to remain, as did three quarters (73%) of black voters. Nearly six in ten (58%) of those describing themselves as Christian voted to leave; seven in ten Muslims voted to remain.

think it has more than that. every minute that passes, the thing that parliament eventually votes on becomes separate to the referendum. the more there's a "deal" or anything else attached, the easier it becomes to shoot it down without it even being a case of denying the electorate their wishes.

xpost

like - we know people voted for brexit, but what brexit? how can we ever agree about that?

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Ill-vs-Good-768x757.jpg

Hell the nuttier Tories can shoot it down because whatever deal reached does deny the voters their wishes

well, exactly. it's going to be chaos. guess you'd have to worry about brexit sustaining a long and bureaucratic conceptual defeat and some more virulent hatred rising in general elections as a result. like how do you satisfy the people who voted for this? cos now they've waved their miniature union jacks around, the next year or two of legal wrangling and political bullshit sure ain't going to be satisfying.

One of my Facebook "friends" (I don't actually know him) has announced he's deleting his account because of the vitriol he's received from the "remain" camp (none of it from me- like I said, I don't actually know him). Good. Go back to skulking in the corners, you prolicidal fuck.

like how do you satisfy the people who voted for this? cos now they've waved their miniature union jacks around, the next year or two of legal wrangling and political bullshit sure ain't going to be satisfying.

licence to be more openly racist will give succour to some

This is A+ trolling. The Sun, after relentlessly begging their readers to vote leave, now tells them how much worse they'll be off financially.

bomb the sun

any politician who says 'hey the sun, hey the mail, hey the express, fuck you forever, put my face on any vegetable you like, run smear campaigns, wank yourself stupid with hate, the people can see through your horseshit now' has my vote regardless of anything else

biggest evil in our society

One of the 'working class' areas that voted for Remain was Liverpool - where they don't read the Sun...

Talk from Europe getting tougher.

What is clear, though, is that the Leave camp, which isn't exactly formed of the best and brightest to begin with, have absolutely no idea what they are going to do next. The calls to avoid hasty decisions are because they haven't got a strategy beyond 'leave the EU' not necessarily because they are having second thoughts.

and also, "leaving the eu" in actual legal fact seems to be a p wildly protracted political process rather than an action. it is fascinating bureaucracy, if you can put aside the horror.

― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Saturday, 25 June 2016 10:11 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

LG I think we work in vaguely similar fields and with big sweeping calls/promises I tend to ignore the rhetoric - as in, I've literally no idea what Cameron's even said most of the time - and just think about the mechanisms, flow of funding, and legal processes, because I know from painful experience it usually comes down to this kind of 'detail' which often ends up quietly delivering something different from the promised headlines. Which does mean I'm often clueless about the political/strategical side of things. This whole thing has been surreal to me precisely because of the 'what Brexit are we voting for?' question, which I haven't really seen answered anywhere beforehand, and the sheer scale of actually implementing it/anything. All the statutory instruments that'd need looking at!