Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

David Lammy calls on parliament to disregard the result: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-result-latest-david-lammy-mp-eu-referendum-result-parliament-twitter-statement-stop-this-a7102931.html

Really wish the Labour leadership would take a similar stand here tbh, considering Leave are reneging on their pledges left right and centre

You know how their is a legal age where you are allowed to start voting? Could we just also cap when it ends, like 75 or something? You are too old and riddled with dementia and soz its over.

this idea has been floated a bit recently by ppl including jeremy paxman but with our political system I think there is no chance whatsoever of it happening

The political system of democracy?

maybe I am underestimating how self-destructive the grey vote is

Lord Greville Janner voted in the House of Lords 203 times after being diagnosed with dementia and giving power of attorney to his children, it has emerged.

I was about to say, they'd need to clear out half the House Of Lords.

they should probably have noticed after voted 'faust arp' 203 times

The EU don't want Britain out. The moderate conservative leadership at the EU may -- imagine this! -- have have actually communicated with their party cousins in the UK and have some reason to believe that the referendum was a bit of a bluff and has more symbolic than actual weight. A different question could have been written -- this one, the one with no dates and no directions and the word "should" -- is the one that we are dealing with.

― Three Word Username, Saturday, 25 June 2016 14:03 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Many xps - TWU, can you elaborate on what you mean by the word 'should'? I've written elsewhere about my reaction to that word but haven't seen much discussed about the language of the question.

Hugh Abbot: He actually said this is exactly the kind of thing we should be doing.

Malcolm Tucker: What did he actually say?

Hugh Abbot: He said this is exactly the sort of thing we should be doing.

Malcolm Tucker: 'SHOULD' be doing. 'Should' does not mean 'yes'.

The British people would rightly expect triggering article 50 to start straight away.
We could give that £350m to the NHS
Diet lemonade, made "with" "real" lemons

ordinary lemons, decent lemons

lemmings more like

https://twitter.com/sayeedawarsi/status/746721412942073857

OUT 17,000,000 IN 48%

She talks passionately about extending the provision of English language education, and it sounds wonderful. But if that's what she's really talking about, why not announce that her government will move heaven and earth to help everyone in the country learn English? Why frighten immigrants with the threat of a health service that won't treat them in an emergency unless they know how to say "cardiac arrest" in English?

"Because it's about working out which direction we're going in."

Thx Baroness Warsi. Who could have predicted this?

Forgot all this stuff from earlier about Scotland having a veto over Brexit. That'd kill the patient to cure it though http://twitter.com/felixsalmon/status/746733571952369664

Lawyers say Cameron's remarks could count as Article 50 notification. Ffs http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36631518

I would imagine there's at least a form to fill in

following on from stet, looks like an interesting doc probably worth reading in full: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/ldselect/ldeucom/138/138.pdf

can someone plot out the timeline for me
- unclear whether PM can notify under prerogative or parliament has to ratify
- if latter, current parliament is roughly 70% remain so they won't vote in favour of notifying
- we'll need a new parliament then
- safe assumption that the requirements of the FTPA can be got round?
- tory manifesto pledges to enact manifesto
- can tories win GE on that? assume a whole bunch of ppl who voted them in currently assumed their referendum pledge would be inconsequential
- UKIP voters would presumably coalesce around them tho

- if latter, current parliament is roughly 70% remain so they won't vote in favour of notifying

i guess we'll see over the next few days, but my impression is that most of them think of themselves as too "honourable" to vote their personal opinion in opposition after an explicit referendum mandate.

If it's unclear whether the PM can use prerogative, it means he can.

Even if it went to parliament as a delaying tactic, i think you'd have a fair proportion of MPs voting to leave because they feel the result of the referendum needs to be respected (and they fear getting turfed out by UKIP if they don't).

idk if Labour could win a GE campaigning to ignore the referendum even if they wanted to (which they appear not to).

Honestly, if it's not going to happen, i think the Scottish / NI veto is the most likely route.

i'm sure there's plenty of ways it could legally be stopped. i just don't think there's anyone who wants to who is also able to.

Looking at all the possible 'escape routes' being sought, a question for you remainers: would you really want gov to pass by the result of the referendum? Or to have a second referendum even? I'm all about remain too, but the petition for a second referendum, within 48h after the result, is rather rich.

the petition is a load of shit and not relevant to anything

I agree, its baffling 2m people already signed the bloody thing.

"I'm waiting for a knee, I'm on the waiting list. But I know a couple of immigrants that got a new knee before me. That's why I voted brexit." (Lady in Boston, Lincolnshire, on Dutch telly)

a petition was inevitable given the mood

You mean it was a way for remainers to direct their frustration over the loss at?

kind of a loaded way of putting it, more that a lot of people disapproved of the referendum in the first place and won't accept leaving

The petition's daft with arbitrary figures. People want to react in any way possible but I would've thought the nearest thing possible would be some kind of legal challenge as to how it was sold. Which apparently is not going to hold water.

I don't actually know what I want. I want the govt to say 'you realised it wasn't legally binding, didn't you' and everyone to go 'oh yeah, our mistake, btw I saw some sarcastic tweets and I'm not racist any more'

also free knees for all

bet cameron wishes he hadn't won a majority last year

these behind the scenes anonymously sourced post mortem pieces are always more fun when they're about badly run republican presidential campaigns

http://www.politico.eu/article/how-david-cameron-lost-brexit-eu-referendum-prime-minister-campaign-remain-boris-craig-oliver-jim-messina-obama/

Looking at all the possible 'escape routes' being sought, a question for you remainers: would you really want gov to pass by the result of the referendum? Or to have a second referendum even? I'm all about remain too, but the petition for a second referendum, within 48h after the result, is rather rich.

If it was the other way around and the result was 52% remain, then I'd be saying "that's it" — but also totally expecting Farage and crew to continue agitating and probably petitioning, and would be OK with that.

Given the massive impact of this, plus the retraction of nearly every Exit campaign promise, plus the evident buyer's remorse, plus that I'm certain Boris didn't want remain, I think it's not a strong enough result to silence all opposition.

I think parliament would therefore be justified in finding some way out of what is manifestly not in our best interests. The Scottish veto is not that way out; the new election with a party campaigning for remain seems a better one.

Assuming Labour can reconnect with the North in 3 months. Shit.

Boris didn't want exit, I meant

Labour is shot, is the thing, and any future positive scenario depends on a strong, convincing Labour party. If Brexit, then we desperately need Labour to win an election held soon so that they can stop the Tories being the ones rewriting all the expiring EU laws. If some fantasy non-Brexit, Labour would have to be the ones making the arguments. But frankly it's NAGL for Labour to disregard the manifest wishes of massive parts of the non-London parts of the UK?

an explicit referendum mandate

52% to 48% is not a fucking mandate! Even bloody Farage said that (when he thought it was the margin he was going to lose by, not win by).

(xposts)

Scottish / NI veto is the most likely route

I assume NI won't veto when DUP are for leave. Scotland might veto but would they rather hope for IndyRef 2 while leaving the non-Indy option to look as bad as possible?

The petition's daft with arbitrary figures

Daft and arbritrary like the referendum amirite etc

(no, I don't know what I want either. would of course be delighted to discover it was all a dream but can't see a real way out of it and fear serious unrest or at least big UKIP surges if one is attempted. Also, if we are given another chance to vote on it, be it a second referendum or a general election, will it really go any better for Remain? There are a few Leave regrets, but a million? And who could possibly win a GE on a Remain ticket?)

Have been hoping Cameron feels really fucking bad rn as some tiny shred of not-quite-compensatory schadenfreude, but sense Cameron has had many years of practice at not feeling personally responsible for anything

hey peeps i hear that the republican party doesn't technically _have_ to nominate trump

the petition is a load of shit and not relevant to anything

This, pretty much.

Feeling you Stet, but parliament or gov finding a 'way out' is betraying the 52%, no? Regardless of why or how they voted leave, I'll-informed or not etc. "Best interest" seems something people disagree on, to say the least. I can't conceibably see them do it. If you use a democratic tool like a referendum, to ignore or twist or obstruct the result seems very anti-democratic. Or elitist ("sorry ppl, you voted the wrong way"). I wouldn't want to be a pm and pull a rabbit out of the hat to ignore the result tbh.

only 24 hours ofc & a lot of politics still to go but some scottish unionists (activists & columnists mostly, no politicians understandably) making some interesting noises north of the border this morning
― cozen, Saturday, June 25, 2016 9:36 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

how do you mean?
― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Saturday, June 25, 2016 9:39 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sorry meant to come back to this. massive pinch of salt obv given context is prone to change day-by-day for next wee while, but certainly been expressions from some unionist commentators & activists that they will actually countenance scottish independence now, assuming it means continuing membership of the EU

e.g.https://medium.com/@AndrewWilsonAJW/not-in-our-name-25dfdef21d9b#.d5i8ztgm0, https://stephenorourke.org/2016/06/25/scotlands-future/

like the govt give a shit about "betraying" 40% of the country

the best way of ignoring the result is probably to delay it, tinker with it, bog it down in bureaucracy and talk about it being a win for decent people until people assume we've left the EU

the petition is a load of shit and not relevant to anything

― nakhchivan, Saturday, June 25, 2016 6:04 PM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this cannot be repeated enough

the long way around must be taken

Cynical. But not inapt.

Xp

Tracer: very much depends on what they campaign on. This referendum morally binds only this present government, and legally binds nothing. If a new government is elected on the manifesto of staying in/re-running referendum that's a totally legitimate thing. But depends on strong Labour, totally.

This was a high turnout ref wth a close result. The impact is still quite hard to guess, I think. The remain side's anger could lead to a surge in, fuck knows, the Libs as equally as it could lead soft Leavers to UKIP. And if Leavers feel lied to enough, that won't help Nigel "NHS thing was a mistake" Farage at all.

But for the present time delay while promising to get around to it is the order of the day. Only Farage wants an A50 now. Oh, and Corbyn, sometimes.

And hell, it's not like this would be the first referendum ever that was been re-run until it got the right result. Hell, it wouldn't even be the first Euro referendum,.

https://next.ft.com/content/45244ac8-3afc-11e6-8716-a4a71e8140b0

Jeremy Haywood tells civil servants “the will of the British people is an instruction that must be delivered”

A coworker's cousin made this to express his feelings about having just earned his British passport, after months of studying and paperwork, right before the vote.

http://m.imgur.com/yOaOv0V?r